Eternal HEMA General: Mordhau Edition

>>2295105
Looks like it's legitimately aimed at high schoolers, has things like focusing on homework being one of the key pillars of the group. Not that there's anything wrong with it, but seems like it doesn't focus on swordplay as much as I would prefer.

>>2297247
Oh. Yeah, that doesn't sound good. It might still be worth talking to the instructor, though; could be a small group of adults that he practices with on the side. Then again, it might just be a cashgrab by some fuck who doesn't know anything.

File: Oxford_Stretching.jpg (64KB, 554x856px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 554x856px

>>2296090
Don't forget your stretching!

>>2296090
Nice pic, I guess.

File: 800px-Cgm_1507_52v.jpg (51KB, 800x849px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 800x849px

Can anyone tell me more about the weird face bucklers Paulus Kal showed in his manuscripts?

Was it just a style choice or did people actually carry the creepy tongue face bucklers?

>>2300305
>Was it just a style choice
Yep. You see it in manuscript art all the time.
Though, to be fair, there examples of parade shields that have Gorgons and such on them. As for bucklers, none I'm aware of.

Which medieval dagger is the best? Rondel, Baselard, Bollock, sword hilt?

>>2301631
Dick dagger best dagger

>>2301631
Misericorde

File: DSC_0697.jpg (117KB, 749x500px) Image search: [Google]

117KB, 749x500px

Anyone practicing rossfechten here ? Wich treatrise are you studying if so ?

>>2300305
In medieval art you can see many shields with weird faces on it. Not sure if it was an actual thing or just art.

>>2302032
Are those mensur goggles for horses? Neat.

>don't want to buy wooden daggers
>don't want to buy cold steel ones
>don't want to buy rubbershit
Guess, I'll have to use steel pointy ones.

>>2304263
>don't want to buy wooden daggers
>don't want to buy cold steel ones
>don't want to buy rubbershit
why not?

>>2304369
>wooden daggers don't flex at all
>cold steel daggers are shit to okay depending on the model, their bucklers are great
>rubber ones flex so much that you can't do half the techniques with them
It's just me being a whiny bitch.

>>2304386
Well yeah,
>wood don't flex
>I'll just spend even more money on something else that doesn't flex

>>2304517
You understand that the steel dagger part is just a joke. Right?

>>2304539
Not him, but it wasn't immediately obvious.

also, the cold steel plastic dagger are neat.
parying dagger can handle steel sidesword heavy blow,
and their rondel flex just enought to be neither a hindrance or a danger.

File: NokTrainers.jpg (89KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 640x480px

>>2304263
>>2304386
Have you considered getting some Nok Knives?

They're basically hardwood core training knives wrapped in some kind of hard foam. They hurt enough so that you won't want to eat shots, but they're not hard enough to seriously injure you. They're stiff enough to not flop around like rubber and you can get away with minimal equipment. I'm happy with mine.

>>2296090
cringe

>>2305334
>cringe
cringe

Next edition of BOTN, when?

>>2305598
>>cringe
>cringe
cringe

File: 1486709203441.jpg (139KB, 600x849px) Image search: [Google]

139KB, 600x849px

Do you guys remember instances of HEMA being mentioned in fictions others than the webcomic from the previous thread?

>>2306696
There's a lot of terrible self-insert fiction here and there.

>>2306696
Talhoffer Society, not that I would recommend.

>>2306696
I believe it's in SM Stirling's Emberverse (at least in the beginning). Or maybe that was SCA; I don't think HEMA was around when he first started writing, but the books essentially have historical european martial artists starting a feudal society in the Pacific Northwest after an unexplained phenomenon causes modern technology to fail.

>>2307384
God that book. A neckbeard's self insert fantasy.

>>2307038
>>2307384
>>2307403
I'm a retard, I forgot that some masters are mentioned in Princess Bride.

>>2307384
>>2307862
Why is it awful? I've never heard of it before.

>>2307403
I recall the first three books of this series (centered around the Bearkillers) being pretty enjoyable, but that was before I knew anything about HEMA or weapon-based martial arts in general so I don't know how it would hold up now.

>>2306696
Christian/Miles Cameron, various historical fiction series. He's a HEMA and reenactment type and clearly bases a lot of his fight descriptions on actual techniques. One novel even has Fiore as comedy sword-autist sidekick.

File: GearAsOfFeb2017.jpg (902KB, 1536x2048px) Image search: [Google]

902KB, 1536x2048px

>he fell for the ikea meme

>>2307918
It starts not too bad, but starts getting stupid fast. Spoilers ahead: For me it was the moment that the main protagonist cuts the hand of a guy with an albion sword, just taken out of the package. Do they send them already sharpened? Also can you really sever a hand that fast with a sword? The most idiotic part is when every one involved in the super scary illegal tournament seems to be friends with the guy, when he gets away with killing several of the guards and no one gives a shit, and the idiotic romance (obviously the most skilled female fencer falls in love with him, duh), and the fact that everything ends stupidly well for him. I dunno, I just didn't enjoy it. Worst purchase of last year to be honest

>>2308214
>Do they send them already sharpened?
They do, actually. It's not a great edge, but certainly enough to go through a wrist.

>>2305608
Who cares?

>>2308199
>Ifeelthewarptakingover
That's some Scanner Darkly sht there

Why is singlesword stuff so uncommon compared to longsword?

>>2307403
Dies the Fire takes place in 1997, the faction that takes over Portland is all SCA guys

The bearkillers pick up a member of HACA (which is what ARMA used to be called) who becomes their fencing instructor

>>2310039
No wonder I hated the Portland faction so much.

>>2309940
Because longsword is like the mascot weapon of HEMA.

File: 1423216678464.png (75KB, 349x353px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 349x353px

I know this is kind of a shot in the dark, but I live around the Philadelphia area and for the life of me, I cannot find a group / club that isn't >2hrs away. HEMA Alliance shows one in Delaware, but the website links to a site out of Mexico for some reason. I know there's a few Facebook pages for places that I've checked out here and there, but they don't really seem active or organised.

On the offhand chance that there's an anon who knows of someplace that has weekly sparring sessions, I'd really appreciate the recommendation.

My only other option is to find strangers on Craigslist...

With that in mind, how often do you / are you willing to commute to classes?

>>2310529
>how often do you / are you willing to commute to classes?
Meh, I'm in the lucky situation to have classes within 5 minutes by car.
If that wasn't the case it would depend on my social situation, atm with a wife and a 5 months old boy I'd probably stop doing HEMA for at least a year.
Were I single I'd probably go 2-4 times a week, depending on how far I'd have to travel (>2hrs is pretty hefty tbqh).

If it's possible try to find a few guys and gals that are also interested in HEMA and start your own club!

>>2310599
>Were I single
*Would I be single
[spoiler]'Were I' is not proper english, or is it??[/spoiler]

>>2310241
This doesn't actually answer the question

>>2310745
Because singlesword requires a higher degree of skill to use well, as well as a broader knowledge of general fighting technique.

>>2310529
Is this the place you checked out?
http://www.memag.net/index.html

It says it has a branch in Maple Shade, New Jersey.

>>2310529
I need to stay on a bus for almost an hour two times a week
>>2310772
That's true, you can win against someone with a longsword even without knowing a lot of technique, while you need to know your shit to be sort of good with singlesword.

How do you guys feel about grappling/striking/full contact?

File: SPES_Lobster_gloves.jpg (34KB, 720x540px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 720x540px

>>2310855
>grappling
I suck at it but happened often enough while sparring
>striking
I use my SPES heavies to full effect, punching with them is fantastic!
>full contact
ALWAYS, at least when doing tournament sparring

File: jackie3.jpg (28KB, 500x333px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 500x333px

Looking for some new books for longsword (open to others as well), anything an anon would recommend?

So to get started with this do y'all suggest just trying to find a nearby club and going? Dive into the treatsies? Watch any videos?

>>2310855
Fun but impractical to deal with safety wise.

>>2309940
Because there's much less various sources and that there's not so much stuff beyond Bolognese materials?
Single sword in broad terms tends to be either rapier, messer, military sabre (which are somehow their own specific things) or devolve logically into sword and buckler or sword and dagger, so not "singlesword" anymore. There's just not that much sources specifically for it (but Dall'Agocchie, Sainct-Didier, Viggiani, some bits here and there)... Not that having a lot of sources is in itself a method for success: smallsword has tons of sources but is probably considered too close to sport fencing and doesn't look badass or manly enough I suppose...
Perhaps the fact that there isn't a lot of tournaments on it as well.

Or I don't get what "singlesword" exactly is.

>>2310972
Yes

>>2311142
Smallsword is a surprisingly good sword for civilian protecting. It was praised by a number of schools and they all spoke of how difficult it was to deal with with the other swords of the Era, broadsword and Saber mostly

>>2310855
You just made me realize that I missed tons of opportunities for punches. It never crossed my mind maybe because it's my first martial art.

>>2310604
Were I is proper there. It's the subjunctive, or something. Maybe should have used weren't in the second para, even. Would I be is definitely not correct.

>>2311555
Well there you go anon!

Yo. I've never been here before. I just popped in to ask if there was a few good videos that showcased cutting drills, forms, and other practices.

I don't have a HEMA center near me, but I would be interested in trying out cutting drills as a way to appreciate the art and to make an addition to my warm-up exercise routine.

I'm aware that without an instructor that there's a possibility of me performing a drill incorrectly, but I'm reasonably certain I can figure out what is the most correct and natural way for a body to move. I don't plan on ever sparring, anyways.

So any instruction videos that you might know of will be appreciated.

>>2310865
>Thinks it's okay to punch people full force with gauntlets
Tip for the noobs: Don't be this guy. No one will like you and eventually you'll get your shit kicked in.

File: vegas project.png (495KB, 1317x852px) Image search: [Google]

495KB, 1317x852px

Hey, I'm making a video to explain to normies what is the difference between LARP/Reenactment/Artistic fencing/modernfencing/Hema/Behurt/weaboomartialart.
No SCA as they don't exist back there.
5minutes max per subject, I really want to keep it clear and short.
Also, another goal is to show that the objectives are not the same, and so that the dickwaving between groups is very stupid.
Yes, I'm optimistic.


For now : the first video, introducing the idea is nearly done. already showed here the first prototype, modified it after hearing yours critics.

I'm trying to do it not in the style of a attention whore showing my face speaking, but only with video content.

Thus, I need content. Anybody got some nice webm to embellish the video ? Ugly or clumsy is good enought, too, I will make the first part about each group with every bad stereotype it has, alongside cringy video. For example, LIGHTING BOLT for Larp, ephoric trenchcoat with katana, ect.

>>2310855
Full contact striking is absolutely out, safety hazard and That Guy as >>2312339 says. For punches, tap with a knuckle or lay your open hand on to show that you had an opening; for kicks and leg sweeps, just fucking don't. Make a note of the opening mentally for the purpose of martial insight, then don't use it.

It is low class as fuck to use striking since everyone else is holding off. As the other anon also pointed out, if you carry on in this way, eventually you'll find out the hard way just how much they were holding back.

>>2311710
I'm not familiar with any good videos on cutting form specifically, but there's a nice writeup of some basics that was published just recently:
http://www.xkdf.org/blog/2017/2/27/a-modern-gloss-general-lessons-hewing

File: FuckYouAndYourDrone.webm (861KB, 800x410px) Image search: [Google]

861KB, 800x410px

>>2312369
I'd recommend starting a thread on
>>>/wsg/

>>2311142
>>2311463
https://youtu.be/i15NJRo57Ko

>>2312339
>punch people full force
>full force
I never said that

>>2314604
Tell him that if he wanted to run a HEMA group, he should have done that instead of whatever little grabass party he ended up with.

File: girard.png (379KB, 3508x2481px) Image search: [Google]

379KB, 3508x2481px

>>2311463
>>2314692
I probably badly phrased it but I quite like smallswords and I do think that in their niche, they are quite sensible weapons. The fact is it's not really well represented or brought forward compared to say sabre, rapier or longsword, despite having tons of sources (mostly in French but well...).
I imagined that the reason it isn't done much is because it looks too much like sport fencing and it doesn't conjure the same kind of "badass knight" feeling that longsword can have, I think it's a stupid argument myself but well, doesn't change the fact that many people are joining because they want to play knight, for better or worse...

But then with smallsword you get to know how to face peasants armed with sausage-links-like weapons!

>>2314675
I know that is larp but if he can throw a hatchet that accurately props to him

File: s2.jpg (474KB, 555x835px) Image search: [Google]

474KB, 555x835px

>>2312369
If you need a cringy video of katana use and some iaido, I'd be glad to let you use my backyard cutting sessions. If you want full trenchcoat type cringe, I also make videos like that and can provide pictures to use(pic related is me). Some examples being:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Vxnms4FLc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyZIrc3R4WE&t=3s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtfYdF-68Vs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC7aJHYePJ4&list=PLqAuxZYoYr5-t2Ma3nTMx5-4auEM3_4vy

>>2314896
It's reenactment, not larp, btw

Hey guys, I was wondering of you knew anything about where most fencing masters from Germanic lands tended to come from? If there are any cities or regions that were strongly represented.

>>2316290
Or just in Europe in General?

>>2314788
>it doesn't conjure the same kind of "badass knight" feeling
If you study Scottish smallsword it makes conjures up feeling of being a PIMP.

>>2316290
Oddly enough, modern day Poland.

File: map lichty.png (308KB, 629x604px) Image search: [Google]

308KB, 629x604px

>>2316290
>>2316357
>This map gives the probable birthplaces and residences of the members of the fellowship [of Liechtenauer]. The colors indicate modern-day nations, but in their period all of these lands were part of the Holy Roman Empire.

File: Mcbane.jpg (148KB, 1300x845px) Image search: [Google]

148KB, 1300x845px

>>2319197
Though just like fencing... It ain't easy.

>>2319208
Ah alright! Thanks so much. I'm doing a piece on printing and martial arts, so this is quite helpful.

video of the dreynevent longsword finals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhBiKm7PyoI

>>2319927
Ah damn, can't wait to face (and lose to) Ingulf at the austrian championship!

>>2319900
I may stating the obvious but of course, Venezia is a key place of printing for the italian treatises of the Renaissance, despite the relative lack of masters born there.

I quickly looked into it but I think you can find lists of masters, at least those from the Liechtenauer Fellowship and their birthplace or place of study, on wiktenauer or such.

>>2319927
Is that a black armoury jacket on the right?

>>2319208
Note that for the most of them, they are located on the main commercial axis of germany.

>>2315451
You need to be 18 to post on 4chan, kiddo.

>>2310855
>>2312339
>>2312519
Using controlled strikes and grapples that still have 'martial validity' is necessary if you're going to the use some weapons and techniques as intended, though. Shieldstrikes in i.33 and using the hilt to grapple in Leckuchner for example.

>>2321073
Sure, but those examples are different than just punching somebody in the face. Now, if you have a source that says punch the dude in the face, then by all means, go ahead. Otherwise, though, cut that shit out.

>>2319927
Looks like tippy-tappy sport fencing.

>>2321631
sadly that's what tournament fencing sometimes (often?) comes down to.
I hope I don't go down the same route but fighting in tournaments is fun!

>>2321631
>>2321694
And I don't think that they leave the "posta breve/late pflug/chudan" stance once while in measure. The conclusive hit was fair though.

>>2322015
>I don't think that they leave the "posta breve/late pflug/chudan" stance once while in measure
Is there a reason for that?
And what's the best way to 'counter' it? Schielhau? Krumphau?

>>2322102
People feel safer and more in control when they have their blade in front of them, in the center between the two fencers and the tip facing the opponent (which will naturally leads to tippy-tappy cuts)...?
Not that it is non-historical or invalid or whatever! Problem is I suppose that a good majority of the time it's the only stance used (with vom tag on the shoulder / posta di donna as well - which at least is a dedicated cutting stance).
One of the problem is that it naturally limit what can come out of this and against this. Not that people aren't aware of that problem, I remember a post-tournament interview with Pettersson where he said that he forced himself to use schranckhut whenever he was leading in points in order to train unusual stuff (and to see how people reacted to it).

also,
http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20468#p327483

>>2321631
As opposed to what? Trading hard Zornhau's and doubling out constantly. That was a joy to watch unlike most tournament matches posted about.

If they were sharp and lives were on the line this is what longsword would look like.

>>2322102
Same as all sharp weapon training right up to the militaries of today. There's a strong psychological element of having a point in your face that prevents bullrush assaults.

Secondly, especially with a longsword it's very fast and easy to block effectively here. It's strong defensively and has plenty of (often subtle) offensive options.

Do somebody have a scans of a book: The Polish Saber by Richard Marsden and is willing to share them?

File: 1449187674640.jpg (141KB, 1000x775px) Image search: [Google]

141KB, 1000x775px

>>2322128
>feel safer in alber/coda longa/porte di ferro/dente del zenghiar since I can easily knock a blade aside from there then jump in
>all the high guards/posta feel better for attack
There is something I must be doing wrong.

>>2323232
What you feel seems to me pretty Bolognese...

>>2322128
>he forced himself to use schranckhut whenever he was leading in points in order to train unusual stuff
Aaand there's the rub. If you're in it to win it you're going to do what works until you can afford to try something else. He recognises this (who do people listen more to? An International multi-tournament winner, or you?) so its sport/brand/marketing and then he rolls it over to the H in HEMA.

At our club when have "Tournament" classes (once a month) we focus on breaking Posta Breve/Alber-Pflug, and Vom Tag/Posta di Donna (and their closely related counter parts) with the same guard (e.g. Pflug with Pflug), then with other guards (e.g. Pflug with Posta di Donna) etc.

Truth be told we only teach maybe four of the most common positions plus attacks/defences that occur across most traditions. We've dubbed it our "Pan-International Tournament Style".

On a point by point basis it wrecks everyone, pushes the rules (single hand thrusts anyone?), and we think show why HEMA should avoid sportifiication BUT should acknowledge that it's already happened to an extent so maximise that aspect while retaining the other. More medals, more students, more people to show the light.

>FYI: For sabre we've reduced it down to: Light Sabre = Medium Guard only. Moderate to Heavy Sabre = Hanging Guard and Outside Guard only.

>>2323232
Those are some nice digits famalam.

>>2322697
Buy the book, bro. He's a poor high school history teacher and needs all the extra income he can get.

File: Dual Wield.webm (2MB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1280x720px

>>2320632
I am, kiddo. Just because I have babyface and disgusting acne doesn't mean I'm underage. I'll be over soon to prove it.

A few Dreynevent sparrings I've found online:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSJkyKClXjc&t=76s
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-zbAAox75A&t=94s
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJysCfTYzrI&t=11s
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djkscAXa4hg
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l90zUGzYgbI
FUCKING DOUBLE SICKLES:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FlqkMnl3lg

It probably leans more towards reenactment than HEMA, but does anyone know any good sources on the systems used by Swiss mercenaries?

>>2309940
Honestly I quite like Silver's singlesword.

>>2324511
>double sickles
Give me that peasant uprising.

I'd love to see some genuine scythe fights too.

>>2324518
Depending on your time period, but this has sources for the use of the baselard and family relations to switzerland
http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Hugo_Wittenwiler

>>2323767
Do you have it?
I would like to get it purely for the fighting bits not for the history
Is it worth it?
My club is doing some shitty olimpic fencing type of footwork and they are trying to use polish sabre like a hutton sabre (yes its that bad).

>>2324629
Not him, but from what I gathered it's the best source that you could get in English.

>>2324519
>Honestly I quite like Silver's singlesword.
Literally inferior to sabre.
You WILL lose every tournament you enter bub.

>>2326269
Just train spadroon

File: MS_26-232_85r.png (3MB, 2820x1468px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 2820x1468px

For what purpose do you hold a messer inverted? Is the offhand weapon supposed to be a buckler in this image?

>>2326269
>My dad ('s style) is better than your dad ('s style)
Olympic sabre is better than both at winning medals anyway.

>>2321593
Off the top of my head, from Lignitzer's halfswording:
"Thrust him inwardly to the face; yet parries he this by absetzen of your thrust, then wind your pommel from your left from below downwards on his blade between his hands and pull him to yourself, rip his left hand from his blade, and thrust him to the bollix; yet if he is too strong, so you cannot get his hand from his blade, then wind your pommel from below upwards on your right side over his left hand and push him in his left side with your blade, and hit him continuously."
Actually, Liggy is full of nasty stuff I honestly wouldn't try to pull off in sparring.

>have a blackfencer arming sword
>can't help but do moulinets with it as if it was a sabre

Fight the good fight, anons.

>>2326279
>Just train walloon
ftfy

Also, how would you guys answer this:
>"I am currently in NYC and I have know vaguely of the sport (while in Montana) but recently rediscovered it and how it is steadily growing.
>I've been extremely interested in something like the m-1 fights or the ACL/BOTN fights but hear that it costs over 3000$ just for the equipment not including all the participatory cost of entering/travel/etc. is this true?
>Is there any partial renting of equipment? Where maybe I just buy helmet and gloves or something and rent the rest?
>Other questions: I realize there is certain technique that is taught and stuff in the class but as I understand from watching some critiques of the sport that a lot of the techniques are not necessarily applicable and with good physical training and practice of actual sparring you can jump straight in. Also true?"

Behold, Sportification! Where who gives a fuck about technique when you can just stay in one or two positions.

>>2326997
>For what purpose do you hold a messer inverted?
Heaps. Durer's sketch is drawn from life, so the dude probably flipped it around to make it safer for his bro.
>Is the offhand weapon supposed to be a buckler in this image?
Yes. Also called a targ in German (a trype of tournament shield).

>>2328615
I think this is a case where, before being allowed to compete, the selection criteria should be that you can name, demonstrate, and explain a whole rage of historical techniques before you're allowed in.

File: Paurñfeyndt.jpg (102KB, 1107x692px) Image search: [Google]

102KB, 1107x692px

>>2328615
>Just train walloon
So this...

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL7NS45pz5I
Any rapier fencer willing to share his opinion on that?

>>2329127
On the sword, you mean? I'm skeptical, but I'd have to try it out myself to say for sure. If you want a cheap trainer, why not just use an epee?

Do you guys play for honor?

>>2329920
I don't but not because it's not depicting HEMA, I just don't really care for the game.

>>2329920
>guys in plate hawing each other
yeah, no

>>2329918
Not just the rapier but also the fencing. They look pretty good but I don't know much about rapier fencing.

>>2329938
They're doing destreza, and I don't know enough about that to comment on their quality.

>>2329127
>>2329938
They're okay but sometimes being visibly hampered by the swords, I'd say they're likely better diestros than this video lets them show off.

As for the swords themselves neither really strikes a pure blow without drawing back so it's hard to say if they're flexible enough, however the fact that they hold back seems indicative in itself. I don't know much about destreza school freeplay etiquette, though, so maybe that's just normal behavior for them?

Either way, my big question in regards to the sword is whether it flexes enough in the thrust, I'm worried it might be actually stiffer (and thus more dangerous) than a steel blunt, which is a big problem if so. You can clearly see the blades are quite stiff as they fence, they don't flop much if at all, and for plastic that's the classic tradeoff. So, I'd want to actually handle one and take a few rib shots from one before I'd rate them.

>>2330051
According to users on another certain website they require half the mass needed on their longsword models for them to flex. Not that it doesn't help at all to know if they are actually safer.

>>2330205
>According to users on another certain website
Hi r/wma/

>>2331701
downvoted

>>2328615
Honestly if you just train drills and techniques then you'll end up going the way of kenjutsu and be absolutely useless in a real fight. If you only do tournaments you'll be closer to knowing how to fight then you will just drilling.

If you've actually read the Liechtenauer gloss then you'll know it says to use one technique well practiced to win. As nice as it is to know in general all the techniques you'll literally never be able to keep it all in your head in a fight.

>>2335632
>use one technique well practiced to win
Can confirm, I train (and love) Oberhau, Umschlagen and for defense Absetzen.
That's what I'm using 95% of the time in tournament sparring and actual tournaments and it works pretty well.

>>2335632
I wonder how the complete art of Liechtenauer will be transmitted if every student only care to learn one technique well though.
The common line of thought is that you need to know many techniques before being able to tell which one is good for you. You need to know many if not all, how they work specifically, why they work, why they realte to one another and form a coherent whole in order to make complete sense of one particular technique.

Basically what you're saying is that we should all be one-trick ponies...? I suppose it's all well and good if tournaments are your only concern though.

>>2335683
>Basically what you're saying is that we should all be one-trick ponies
Not him but I think that he meant we should master one technique after the other not learning everything at once and being bad at them all.

>>2335677
Personally I've been trying to get a really good understanding of Durchwechseln, the Zwerchau and Absetzen. We'll see how far it takes me since I should be competing in a local tournament next month. This will also be my first time competing so I hope I don't fuck it up too bad.

>>2335683
So you're going to literally ignore the advice of a master so revered his legacy lived on through centuries? In my opinion that's fucking retarded but go ahead and try if you want.

Hell, even according to Fiore no one can keep everything in their head without books.

The difference between knowing one technique really well and trying to remember all techniques is the difference between being narrow and deep or wide and shallow. Wide and shallow won't win fights.

>>2335807
Then I may well misunderstand what you're saying, as >>2335740 said. Of course you need to learn one technique after the other, knowing a lot of techniques lightly isn't good, on that I would agree. At first of course it's better to focus on a limited number of techniques that you'll train to do well. But you can't say that you're studying the Liechtenauer lineage or Fiore's style, who are describing dozens of techniques and say that you'll just learn a couple of them (the "best ones" ) and be good with it. This is not learning a style and you'll risk to be shallow but also narrow because you'll lack perspective. It may well be that you aren't saying this and I don't get it, internet be damn. If you're ok with learning a couple of techniques well (even like, really well) and be done with it, it's utterly lacking in ambition, you might have well pick Viggiani or Dall'Agocchie's "one month course" instead of KdF or Fiore's.

Also, you're mocking the japanese (I'll blindly assume you're the same person) but going on a near religious mantra about Liechtenauer...? Yagyu Munenori said pretty much the same thing, "you win with only one technique", but I can interpret it in a complete different way. In a fight you should focus on proper technique that you happen to master. The thing you should strive for though is learning all the techniques of a given repertoire to such a level that you don't need to pick favorites and that your fencing don't need to be "this thrust" or "that cut" but something that is instinctive understanding of fencing without any mental gymnastics.

KdF and the rest are dead arts. If the intent is to select three techniques and master only this and be happy with it, it's just as stupid as Fahrenheit 451 guys who learn one book like idiotic monks. What is the purpose of learning and resurrecting styles if it's not in the hope that we'll be able to do the whole range of it? But then you have to do it one technique after the other, sure.

File: 国井 1-thumb-200xauto-258.jpg (33KB, 200x289px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 200x289px

>>2335632
>Honestly if you just train drills and techniques then you'll end up going the way of kenjutsu and be absolutely useless in a real fight.

Citation fucking needed hema friend, Kunii Zenya did exactly that and never lost a challenge match, including a few fights with sharps

File: newheadprotection.png (134KB, 856x814px) Image search: [Google]

134KB, 856x814px

Should I?

I dont know if i'm right here, but i have a question.
Could a longsword pierce through quality plate armor, with maille and gambason underneath?
Wielded by a human ofcourse.

>>2336407
I've heard good things about their masks, but I'm not sure about the rest of that stuff.

>>2336840
>plate armor
No.

>maille and gambason
With a thrust, yes, though mail would be harder. A good cut could get through many gambesons, but not all; even a great cut isn't getting through mail.

>>2336840
If in plate armor you'd have to either target areas that aren't armored or if they are covered in plate and/or mail then getting them on the ground and half-swording between gaps or if your strong enough through mail maybe.

>>2337201
>>2337276
Thats all i need to hear to calm my autism, thank you lads.
I have a pretty autistic discussion about that sort of thing, i can post it if you guys care enough.

>>2337280
Please don't.

>>2335876
>Viggiani or Dall'Agocchie's "one month course" instead of KdFags or Fagore's.

We teach our Intermediate students exactly that; a "Tournament" style.

We use in local and state tournaments and place every time to the point they end up fighting each other most often in the finals.

They wreck every single competitor and the only reason they don't come 1st every time is that some organisers grade it like Kendo (so completely subjective "Honrubru spirit" crap).

I also instruct Beginners in a simaler "Oh shit knigga, you got to duel in 30 days? Let me show you the basics" so if they decide to come back, sweet we teach them more, if not at least I've equipt them with enough to boost HEMA in everything from LARP and SCA to ACL, BoTN, et al.

>tfw you see people you trained two years ago playing in the park and given lessons to people who are interested
>feels good man

>>2337280
>autistic discussion
POST IT!

During sparring I'm always too dense and therefore tire too easily.
How do I keep my body loosened up during the fight?

>>2340693
>too dense
Hey Robin!

>>2340851
h-hello?

>>2340693
for friendly sparring, to me it helped to focus on breathing and also set up goals like "first rule, no step backwards, second, don't get hit" or only fencing from a guard i don't use too often, even if that means i will get hit more often and stuff like that. it took my mind off being ubercompettitive in training and helped me to relax.

>>2340933
Yeah, was also thinking about taking the sparring intensity down a notch and focus more on breathing and relaxing my muscles

>>2314896
Buddy, that's not a hatchet

...[spoiler]That's a javelina[/spoiler]

https://www.google.com/search?q=javelina&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjokurtksTSAhWmgVQKHRclC00Q_AUICCgB&biw=1366&bih=589

>>2314675
Holy shit, I'd be so pissed if that was my drone. This is picture perfect proof of the kind of autists that reenacting and LARPing and shiet generally tend to cater to. Le ebin nerd culture would be so much better without the le ebin gnurds.

>>2340693
Another thing, is it even possible to correct that by solo training or only by controlled sparring?

>>2337760
>Honorubru spirit kendo

They judge according to form and technique. Not actual "spirit". Don't be so rude.

>>2337760
So...
Beginner students are quickly taught the basics...
Intermediate students are taught a style so that they win medals (but when they don't it's all the judges's fault, who are certainly secretly weeaboos)...
Who actually study the texts for themselves and to further the comprehension of the arts?

Also, Viggiani and Dall'Agocchie's 1-month lesson aren't "tournament styles", they are to quickly train people so that they can survive an actual fight to the bitter end, hence why the first wants you to immediately train with sharps and the second wants you to fight defensively at the longest range permitted. Both of them agree that this is not a proper way to reliably teach actual swordsmanship, it's rushed trick-fencing which is overly dependent on luck.

File: REEE.png (121KB, 1538x922px) Image search: [Google]

121KB, 1538x922px

>>2340570

>>2342400
>Not actual "spirit". Don't be so rude.

>... A scored point (yūkō-datotsu) in a kendo competition (tai-kai) is defined as an accurate strike or thrust made onto a datotsu-bui of the opponent's kendo-gu with the shinai making contact at its datotsu-bu, the competitor displaying high spirits, correct posture & followed by zanshin..."
>Kisei (spirit, vigour).
>Kirikaeshi (building spirit).
>Hachimaki (worn as a symbol of perseverance, effort, &/or courage).
>Kantosho Award (an award for fighting spirit).
> All Japan Kendo Federation (To mold the mind & body. To cultivate a vigorous spirit...).
Get fucked :^)

>>2342710
>So... Beginner students are quickly taught the basics...
That's correct. Just like you noted:
>... they are to quickly train people so that they can survive an actual fight to the bitter end, hence why the first wants you to immediately train with sharps & the second wants you to fight defensively at the longest range permitted. Both of them agree that this is not a proper way to reliably teach actual swordsmanship...
It equips the novice with the most basic, fundamental aspects. That way if they come back we have something to build on, if they choose not to then they feel they got their money's worth.
>...it's rushed trick-fencing which is overly dependent on luck.
u r right guess they didn't know what they were talking about and a 21st doughy LARPer like yourself does :^)
>Intermediate students are taught a style so that they win medals...
Yep. Teach it as an optional extra for those who want to enter tournaments. Most tournaments are focused around sporting aspects ergo why we approach them as such.
>(but when they don't it's all the judges's fault, who are certainly secretly weeaboos)
It actually is. If you grade it like Kendo which has little to martial value (like Olympic Fencing) you have abstracted it.
>Who actually study the texts for themselves and to further the comprehension of the arts?
The students who stick around & gaf.

>>2340693
Relax your shoulders. Relax your hands.

Before during and after.

not true HEMA but whatever

where the fuck are you supposed to buy tickets for this year's Battle of the Nations, I can't find anything on their website and they won't respond to queries about it

File: Captain Cannibal Hungers for your meat.gif (2MB, 200x150px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 200x150px

>>2342726
>rapier users had their place in armies

>>2342878
You don't actually understand what spirit means in this context.
"High spirits" is recognized by Kiai and form. Even Kirikaeshi is a matter of technique, and is the term for a kind of drill. It doesn't literally means some kind of magical "spirit" even if it's expressed with the word spirit in English. If some guy doesn't Kiai through after a strike, guess what? Bad spirit. But that's not magic, it's clear to see who did better.

I admit the "cultivating a vigorous spirit" is accurate but that doesn't say anything about their judging. It's just an issue of translation and excessive usage of the term.

>get fucked
What did I say about being rude?

File: Tricksy Banterman.png (150KB, 1224x714px) Image search: [Google]

150KB, 1224x714px

>>2343152
Was i just being trolled?

>>2343367
Maybe, or it could have been a kid with Total War understanding of military history.

>>2342726
>have you ever LARP'd
kek

>>2342275
I'd say solotraining helps (perfecting your attack movements etc.), But you will need partnertraining. drills to get the movements down with an opponent that gives you controlled opposition, sparring to get used to an uncooperative opponent that is not bound to a very limited set of movements. Also, make sure you don't hold your breath during sparring. When I first sparred, i subconsciously did and it fucked up my game pretty bad.

>>2345716
>Also, make sure you don't hold your breath during sparring
Yeah, I'm doing that when attacking, I suddenly stop breathing until the 'pressure' is over.
I really need to focus on that...

>>2342275
yea, bounce a ball at a wall Great Escape style but while practicing footwork. The more you lock up your shoulders and hands the less likely you are to catch the ball. After a few minutes when your mind gets lost in the activity you'll find you'll naturally relax and the it crosses over directly to your sparring.

I did this with two balls for up to an hour a day in the summer and my fencing ability exploded. It's just hand eye coordination and training fast thinking... sort of empty mind.... like active meditation in a way.

Pretty much everything can be adapted to solo training.

>>2345825
damn that sounds good, gonna try that, thanks!

>>2342726
This guy is either a genius-level troll or you've discovered a whole new level of retarded. It's like its own phase of matter. God damn.

>>2345920
Enjoy.

I'd be doing it right now but I have a new dog now. Hard to covertly train with Tennis balls with a doggo around.

File: HEMAkek.jpg (70KB, 960x640px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 960x640px

Guys, seriously...

>>2346031
What about it? Those women sure ain't pretty, but you have to admit they're pretty exactly the female equivalent of male HEMAutists.

>>2346031
Oh fucking hell, I'm all for girls doing HEMA but what is that??

File: tmp_26281-2017-03-08 10.16.34-1862999329.jpg (114KB, 348x474px) Image search: [Google]

114KB, 348x474px

>>2346031
An orc and an ogre

File: FencingIsntThatForGirls.jpg (333KB, 2000x1333px) Image search: [Google]

333KB, 2000x1333px

>>2346102
Don't ASSUME my fantasy race, hater!

>>2346243
I don't see at all how that image supports the text.

>>2346031
>>2346102
>>2346243
STOP

>>2346077
I guess this is a useful simulator for how girls see HEMA.

>just realized that there is no male equivalent to Samantha Sword
We do not have any well known pretty boys in hema.

>>2346282
>doesn't want to rub Matt's shiny, smooth scalp

>>2346258
Precisely. If anyone didn't realize it already this will be a wholesome reality check. Not that I expect anyone on 4chan to be an autist with problems putting himself in anyone else's shoes...

>>2346350
I'd rather scratch Jake's beard.

>>2346282
I'd say Arto Fama is as well known as her, and no homo, but the dude is gorgeous.

https://youtu.be/ZhSmdVULeiY

>TFW the skinniest girl in HEMA fights better than you.

>>2346282
Ilkka Hartikainen...?
There aren't really "pretty boys" sure, but good looking men you can find.

>>2346658
I tried to find the name of that sexy motherfucker, he isn't pretty but he has that manly yet elegant swordsman feel to him.

>>2346077
Fair enough

>>2346539
>Van Dyke
you can't make that shit up

>>2347074
Not a strange last name.
Haven't you heard of Dick Van Dyke?

File: wark.jpg (49KB, 346x468px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 346x468px

>>2346243
>>2346102
>>2346031
fix'd

>>2347227
You're not a native English speaker, are you?

File: pha_axe.jpg (153KB, 375x450px) Image search: [Google]

153KB, 375x450px

Is...is anyone actually using these?

For hip protection, would you recommend the SPES Locust pants or thigh protection skirt?

>>2348848
I'm a big fan of the SPES Locust pants, dunno about the skirts though.
There's one gal using them and I'm not fully convinced, but I guess you have to try them yourself

>>2348639
Is there anything for axes that isn't a pole arm?

>>2348848
They slip down and aren't that helpful.

Unless you're obese or a wussy, an AP jacket and SPES breeches should be sufficient.

Also acceptable is the Polish Apron over a front tied gambeson method.

>>2349071
Nothing I'm aware of

>>2349071
Nothing HEMA; the only stuff I'm aware of comes from fma/combatives derivations.

I'm sure this has been asked a million times and that there are more reputable websites to ask it on, but I'll stick with the autists I know.

What are some things you wish you had known about HEMA starting out that you didn't? I'm looking to get into it, but right now I'm at the "watch videos and read as many .pdf's as I can scrape up" stage before I actually start sinking money into this. What are some mistakes that you made early on that you've since corrected? Things you would have approached differently?

File: kendo6.jpg (38KB, 294x451px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 294x451px

So, I've finished cross-training in Kendo...
>20 hours per "weapon"/variant, e.g. Shinai, shoto, Jukendo, kata, et al.
And Classic/Oly Fencing...
>20h per grip change e.g. French foil & epee, then Pistol/Orthotic foil & epee, etc.
To improve my HEMA game & out of interest.

AMA

>Next six month goals are Judo and Greco-Roman.

>>2351460
1. how long did you do kendo

2.What would you say are the biggest differences between kendo and hema in terms of strategy?

3. was your hema experience a help or a hindrance to kendo?

4. Did you find modern kendo kata different from the drilling you did in hema?

>>2351460
Man I wish I could find a place that teaches greco or catch

>>2351395
I started doing HEMA 2012 but paused 2013 and 2014 to try other things.
Now I'm back at HEMA and wish I wouldn't have stopped doing it back then...

>>2351395
Not doing some proper footwork training before joining.

Anyone from aus that can help me out, I need to source purple armory spear heads and some staves but I don't know where to look

>>2349144
Spes skirts offer much lighter coverage and groin protection. Go for skirt over padded breeches unless you're a pussy.

File: tokyo_police_1906.jpg (341KB, 1603x356px) Image search: [Google]

341KB, 1603x356px

>>2351615
>1. how long did you do kendo
20 hours dojo time per weapon + at least two hours of practice/study outside of that after/before each lesson.
So I'd say I at least clocked in 480+ hours.
>2.What would you say are the biggest differences between kendo and hema in terms of strategy?
Funnily enough it'd be much the same as the difference between fencing and HEMA. The biggest imo would be the difference in philosophy; one based on cultivating & maintaining tradition, whilst the other is based on research & revival.
>3. was your hema experience a help or a hindrance to kendo?
Both. Passing footwork when you're not supposed to (and thus don't score a point) is an example of when it goes wrong.
Holding the weapons in a similar but different angle is an example of when it doesn't really matter.
And funnily passing footwork when you're meant to (and thus avoid getting struck). This is especially apparent in katas.
>4. Did you find modern kendo kata different from the drilling you did in hema?
Not really. Especially given the likes of Marozzo's (et al.) Assult's I was familiar that they both set out to achieve similar goals & are based on a time where protective clothing wasn't the norm. When you go through the kata with a longsword I felt like I was doing the same stuff.

Speaking of which: Kendo will teach you more about seizing the Vor in less time and more effectively than most classes you'll attend or YouTube you watch.

>>2352278
Alot of kendo places won't let you into gear for wihtout a few months of practice and you mentioned Jukeno which is rare

>And funnily passing footwork when you're meant to (and thus avoid getting struck). This is especially apparent in katas.

The kata footwork is alot more natural than the shiai footwork. What about it was same/different.

>peaking of which: Kendo will teach you more about seizing the Vor in less time and more effectively than most classes you'll attend or YouTube you watch.

This is interesting. Is it because of kendo's focus on controlling the center of how light the shinai are, thus encouraging the first strike rather than defense

File: 1904-3-20_nysun_kenjutsu.jpg (3MB, 1429x6414px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1429x6414px

>>2352890
>Alot of kendo places won't let you into gear for wihtout a few months of practice and you mentioned Jukeno which is rare
It was a relatively small club with great teachers who were quite open minded. Essentially no one had ever wanted to try other things outside of the standard before and they jumped at the chance to try something new.
>The kata footwork is alot more natural than the shiai footwork. What about it was same/different.
Same: Passing, triangle steps, and maintaining distance.
Different: Sliding feet and very bent knees.
>Is it because of kendo's focus on controlling the center of how light the shinai are, thus encouraging the first strike rather than defense?
Funnily I found it to be so yes, very much like in fencing and as such rapier, one "dominates" the centre to make it safer for yourself. Now I wouldn't say it discourages defence, however I defintly agree it encourages the first to strike generally wins approach. My personal favourite was feinting to the Do then actually winding to the Kote. Caught them every time.

>>2354244
>Is it because of kendo's focus on controlling the center of how light the shinai are, thus encouraging the first strike rather than defense?

>Funnily I found it to be so yes

So both the weight and how the fought?

how did you find working with shinai? did the whole limited targets feel restricting to you or was it easy to adapt ?

>>2346539
OH man, I wish I could fight with Ochs-Alber hanging parry drills as good as they can!

File: 1900_filipinoweapons.jpg (3MB, 1604x4758px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1604x4758px

>>2354410
>So both the weight and how they fought?
In a competition, yes. Much like how in HEMA some longsword are notoriously light, allowing them to be used more rapidly.
This changes with boken as their weight is much closer to that of an actual sword.
>how did you find working with shinai?
It was pretty fun desu. I can see why they were used early on in HEMA's development as a ready made sparring tool.
>did the whole limited targets feel restricting to you or was it easy to adapt ?
I was easy to adapt so long as one remembers how some master encourage attacking "That part which is nearest" like Swetnam for example.

>>2355260
>In a competition, yes. Much like how in HEMA some longsword are notoriously light, allowing them to be used more rapidly.
This changes with boken as their weight is much closer to that of an actual sword.

I thought Hema made a point of using historically weighted weapons.

>>2355260
Oh one last question, your impression of the circular guard vs the cross bar?

File: 1467956126656.gif (817KB, 557x605px) Image search: [Google]

817KB, 557x605px

>>2342726
>anything below a claymore shouldn't stagger first hit
You guys were talking about Dark Souls 3, weren't you

File: IXjUmVLQkXxIP3LENOPBBNqJf47Kyv_Q8xtczoiRbjs.jpg (109KB, 469x767px) Image search: [Google]

109KB, 469x767px

>>2355620
>half the executions are stabs in that video
Woops, nevermind, For Honor instead I guess.

File: Biblia_de_Maciejowski_miniatura_h10.jpg (206KB, 726x535px) Image search: [Google]

206KB, 726x535px

People were talking before about not being able to cut through mail, and I generally assume the same thing, but what's the explanation for things like pic related. There's a guy in a hauberk getting cut in two, and another lying on the ground with bloody cuts on his arms.

Is the art just inaccurate? There's another guy getting his head cut open straight through a helmet and mail, so maybe calling it artistic license isn't too unreasonable.

>>2356381
What sort of weapon is that doing the hauberk-cutting?

>>2356381
Extremely mild steel?

>>2356409
It looks like a fuckhuge scalpel.

>>2356381
I mean I guess not all armor is created equal. Maybe that dude was wearing some larp-tier bullshit.

>>2356381
It's a depiction of the bible. The specific image you show is Joshua and his army taking the city of Ai. It's a heroic moment when the city finally capitulates, and the victors are portrayed hewing through their opponents.

The Morgan bible was created by people who didn't have access to ancient armors to recreate for their art. So they went with what they knew. That or they knew about ancient armors and instead decided to picture the events in modern times. Sort of like a modern retelling of a Shakespeare story.

The art is obviously embellished. However that big glaive might be able to do damage to mail, with the leverage it obviously has. We also have other depictions of mail being broken and helmets being cleaved through outside this source. However almost invariably they're discussing how badass someone is.

>>2356381
While the quality of armour varied of course, I'd say just cutting through mail, especially at the torso where there's so much surface area, is way unlikely. I bet just the gambeson underneath would prevent such an injury on its own.

This is like the medieval equivalent to an over the top action scene in a movie, nothing more.

File: HAMA.jpg (36KB, 445x599px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 445x599px

>>2355266
>I thought Hema made a point of using historically weighted weapons.
They do. Doesn't mean people don't game the rules with the lightest historical longsword weights they can get away with. The POB also changes, often being further back than on historical examples so the changes their use as well e.g. You can do Olymipic Fencing disengages which, with an otherwise heavier and further forward balanced weapon, are difficult to impossible.

>>2355268
>Oh one last question, your impression of the circular guard vs the cross bar?
You learn to use the full length of your weapon to defend yourself even more so with the tsuba. Parries are also exceedingly important as there is no fall back defence for your wrists.

NOTE: After learning how to Taiatari correctly, I have had no problems with idiots doing the frustrating habit of Crashing in to me.
Why?
Turns out Taiatari with a cross guard is very effective at stopping Buffaloes.
ALSO
A nice trick I picked up from SCA Heavy Fighters is if Crashed in to:
- Remove your left hand from your long sword and
- hold it palm forward at shoulder height
- Make sure your palm is open and bending backwards so the judges can see you're not grabbing your opponent (if there is No Grapples rule)
- This acts to obstruct their upper arms from going lower than your shoulder
- Lean in to them
- Proceed to Flat Snap or Cut (preferably with false edge) around their sword
- This strikes them across the shoulders, diagonally across the back, and if their being especially egotistical/arrogant you can hit their liver and thighs.

After a few occasions we have now put in place in my locale rules that punish Crashers (-1 for person in lead if they strike first, no point awarded for other combatant if they strike first).

>>2356381
WHY DO STORMTROOPERS DIE WHEN SHOT?
WHY DO FANATSY MOVIE ARMORS DO NOTHING?
WHY DOESN IN MY ANIME PEOPLE CUT THROUGH TANKS?
WHY IN MY NORSE SAGA DOES THROJKLERSHA CUT THROUGH BJORNWRESTHBLARGLES MAIL WITH HIS MAGICAL PATTERN WELDED SWORD

I am fucking DONE with this bullshit question.
I am done with this False Positive horsecrap people get from using INDIAN STEEL FLAT WASHER MAIL, it's NOT REAL NO MATTER HOW GOOD QUALTY IT IS.

YOU CAN'T CUT THROUGH IRON MAIL OR STEEL ARMOR YOU FUCKING NERDS!

Jesus, It's a FUCKING BIBLE it's literally the Manga of MEDIEVAL EUROPE.

FICTION.
ENTERTAINMENT.

What sounds cooler "Yeah, Aelfred hit William in the arm, but it didn't do anything, no wait, it did chip his sword..." OR "Yeah, Aelfred SPLIT William's arm on half, then like he was pissing blood and shi-, why? Because he sword was like magic and William's armour was shit because he was French, I dunno stop runeing my Anglo-Norman fantasy bro..."

>>2356450
>The art is obviously embellished.
Based on what we know generally about armor and weapons, sure, but art is sometimes relied upon to support theories about the kinds of weapons and armor that were used, and how they were used. Right? How do we know when something is an embellishment and when it isn't? Might we just as easily say that the swords depicted were clearly not really used because they look ridiculous? I'm legitimately curious about this; I'm not familiar with the academic standards here.

>>2356740
Autism

File: Maciejowski Two Hand Falchion.jpg (104KB, 750x607px) Image search: [Google]

104KB, 750x607px

>>2356911
You are correct in that art outside manuscripts is sometimes used to support historic interpretations of combat. A few months back Matt Galas started uploading some interesting pictures showing the use of the index finger over the guard before the sidesword was invented.
However art outside fighting treatises is a secondary source. Art is not always well informed about martial arts.

An example in HEMA is the Polish Hussars. We know they never fought with the wings on. The shooting of the film "Fire and Sword" proved that when trained horsemen were having problems staying in the saddle. But historic art insists they did.

Some art will always be commissioned by people trying to make a good impression of themselves. Some art will be poorly informed from a martial arts perspective.

And another thing with the Morgan Bible. We've got pictures of these things in the book. Not a single one survives today, and as far as I know, this is the only book which has this specific falchion/cleaver.

We don't take the Morgan bible as a primary source because it's a fictional work. It would be like trying to reconstruct WWI trench warfare Battlfield One footage.

We know when things are embellished when they don't match up with other stories, or when we do experimental archaeology and find out that mail armor is pretty good. In history we try to check multiple sources of information. We try to construct a narrative out of many different sources, and we look at the conclusions of other historians.

HEMA has an advantage in that we can actually test stuff. You can go grab a good replica of an arming sword, get a five finger gauntlet, and fence with the finger over the quillon. You can test how badly your finger gets smashed. You can half sword with an arming sword. You can do a half pirouette with a Rapier to stab an opponent with your back exposed.

We have a body of primary evidence, and a wealth of secondary sources to use as information. And we can test techniques.

>>2355260
We still use shinai at our club. They're a step above literal sticks for beginners.

>>2356935
>A few months back Matt Galas started uploading some interesting pictures showing the use of the index finger over the guard before the sidesword was invented.
That's nice that he's got picture evidence, but was this ever in question? I thought it was generally accepted as obvious that the habit of hooking the index finger had to come first, and the guard designed to protect the finger second. Nobody would make a thing like that before the reason for it had been invented.

>You can do a half pirouette with a Rapier to stab an opponent with your back exposed.
You're doing it wrong if your back's exposed, though. The whole point of the girata volta with the back foot is that it takes you massively out of the line of the opposing blade. It's an attack performed with a void (as opposed to the girata of the front foot which is normally a counter).

>>2355620
No it was DS3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hlIUrd7d1Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFbQXpRvL2Y
These were the linked videos. What do you guys think?

File: 936.jpg (85KB, 680x497px) Image search: [Google]

85KB, 680x497px

>>2358239
>>2342726
>you watch videos in foreign languages and assume meanings
>tfw this shitty language is useful for once

>>2358245
What do you mean?
Are those videos bad for my case?
I just searched for stuff that shows people in armor getting hit.
Are thos enot good demonstrations and if not can you provide better ones? I'm actually willing to learn.

>>2358255
>Fabrice Cognot is the squire
No, I didn't mean that. They are perfectly demonstrating your point and Daniel Jaquet is a really great orator with some nice humour. It's just fumy that the guys is saying that you are wrong just because you may not understand French but he doesn't speak it either.

Here is a german video showing the inefficiency of slicing cuts against gambesons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8hGswaBWMk

There isn't a lot of content showing people getting hit but thetrand or something like that shows the protectiveness of mail and gambesons in tons of videos.

>>2358287
>Ja moin!
>Schönes Stück Wurstbrot.
Thank you for linking that. Informative and made me laugh.

>>2358295
I should study German again.

File: 1482975728351.jpg (4KB, 250x219px) Image search: [Google]

4KB, 250x219px

>>2298487
>indifferent frog

Is there any difference in how to use a sabre and a scottish broadsword? also, what are good sources for total beginners in sabre?

>>2358287
I don't speak frankfurter; why is it so resistant to slices? The hew he did on the dummy went through it easily enough, but I don't understand why. Is it something to do with the thread?

File: 1322451188092.jpg (46KB, 389x450px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 389x450px

I did muay thai for 6 years, got out of it, but have recently gotten the lust for studying a martial art again. I'd prefer something western. Is Lichtenauer a decent place to start?

>>2363976
Lichtenauer is one of the most studied longsword sources out there. It's a safe bet to start there.

>>2363976
Go for Meyer.

File: 1480989115558.jpg (2MB, 4000x3025px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 4000x3025px

>>2361508
English sabre probably wouldn't be that far away from scottish broadsword and those two seemed to have somehow overlap a little with the instructors of that day.

What period and which country are you rather into? There is a lot of sources for sabre... so at least it means you have a good deal of choice (at the cost of being overwhelmed in sources).

>>2364343
Dammit stupid me,
>English sabre...
>Early english sabre that is

>>2364001
>>2364334
No.
Fiore is best.

>>2364355
>Early english sabre that is
Like who? Le Marchant? Angelo?
>>2361508
>Is there any difference in how to use a sabre and a scottish broadsword?
Early on yes. As in "sabre" didn't exist and broadswords and backswords were more common.
Backswords are generally held extended.
Broadswords are generally held closer.
Later on though yes they were different in that sabres became lighter but broadswords didn't.
>What are good sources for total beginners in sabre?
Regimental Broadsword.

>>2310855
I love it, I'd like to do a lot of it, but I can't train on it at all because my club has a hard concrete floor and the owners said no throws.

>>2364612
>Like who? Le Marchant? Angelo?
Yes I would call, late 18th, early 19th century Napoleonic era sabre "early english sabre", so Angelo, Roworth for instance. Feel free to disagree/correct me, it certainly ain't my forte.

>>2322102
Krumphau will defeat Pflug if you hit it hard enough, and Meyer's rose will also work (though that's not the guard it was designed to defeat... Improvise!). Few people know about/use the Rose, though. I've found Krumphau does the job perfectly, but people will expect it, whereas they won't know wtf you're doing with a Rose until their sword batted away.

I've also baited plenty of people in Pflug into trying to thrust, at which point I back off and snipe their hands like I'm casting a fishing rod. It's a bitch move, but when you do it to the same opponent 3-4 times in a row while sparring, they'll learn to stop fighting so conservatively. So you're doing them a favor, too. At least, that's how I look at it.

>>2364642
>Feel free to disagree/correct me,
Well for those I'd definitely agree.

File: 1319519346844.jpg (265KB, 482x588px) Image search: [Google]

265KB, 482x588px

>>2364001
>>2364334
>>2364604

I see a pattern. I found a David Lindholm book on Lichtenauer for 30USD on Amazon. Does anyone else own this guy's adaptation?

Also what type of style would Landsknechte use in fighting?

Thx guys, i apreciate the info
>>2364343
I am not set on a certain time and region yet. also I don't really have a clue how military sabere evolved over time.

early on i thought of a source from Germany or Austia-Hungary since i'm fluent in that language, but a friend of mine is a huge fan of everything scottish, so that's that.

>>2364612
thank you as well, i'll talk this over with my friends. I wan't this to be a group decision at least for learning basics before people branch out once we have more understanding of the matter

>>2365589
>a source from Germany or Austia-Hungary
Pretty much dussack then.
A "Sinclair" sabre is, despite being affiliated with Scottish mercenaries, dust a dussack used in Highland fashion.

>>2365225
Them things are not "proper" longswords, though if used with control and solid mechanics, longsword techniques will work with them.

Those things pictured could be called montantes, zweihanders, bidenhanders, spadones, or greatswords. You could almost consider them a polearm shaped like a sword.

If you're interested in beastly swords like that, here's a good place to start:
>http://hroarr.com/an-overview-of-the-iberian-montante/
Also, there's a few people on Youtube performing solo drills described in the manuals. If you look at longsword videos, you may notice the difference.

I'm not aware of any non-Iberian or non-Italian sources for greatswords.

>>2367889
>I'm not aware of any non-Iberian or non-Italian sources for greatswords.
And yet every Lichtenfag will cry "Muh zettel" and try crossing their arms on a decent cut.
Goodfuckingbye wrists kek

>>2365225
>Also what type of style would Landsknechte use in fighting
Halberds and arqubuses.
Katzbalgers and Targes.

>>2365589
>a source from Germany or Austia-Hungary
Even though I don't know much about it (but that he fought during the Napoleonic wars), F.C. Christmann (1838) seems to be a recent popular source for german sabre (probably french influenced). Older than that as said you have lots of dussack sources, but those will be late 15th, 16th century, so not really the same time frame.

http://www.fechtsaal.de/media/blogs/de/christmann/Christmann_Anleitung_HauStossFechtens_l.pdf

Hey hey HEMAtites.

I need help finding some new singlestick baskets pretty soon, but I have a few requirements that seem to be hard to fill, oddly enough.

>Leather or wicker only (no plastic)
>No metal in the construction at all
>No visible logos (Purpleheart has fucked me on this)

Anyone got any leads?

>>2358205
>obvious that the habit of hooking the index finger had to come first, and the guard designed to protect the finger second

Generally yes, but the interesting question was wether it was a custom for a longer period of time (like 100 years for example) or if one day a fencing master tried this kind of hooking, deemed it good and let a Sword with the finger guard be made a few months after.

>>2368341
>Leather or wicker only (no plastic)
>No visible logos (Purpleheart has fucked me on this

For your museum job? Have you tried etsy?

>>2368108
>crossing their arms on a decent cut
How do you mean? I'm having trouble picturing this.

>>2368341
From what I understand, they're not real hard to make. If you don't need very many, it might be worth a shot.

>>2368987
Overpriced, snap-rivet constructed crap on Etsy.

And not for work. They have the in house crafters make stuff. This is for a private historic club.

>>2369078
Leather is a lot more expensive than you'd think anon, and I have no time to make my own. Cutting, shaping, hardening and fitting takes a while, and is a last resort. I also have no idea how to weave basket cane.

File: 004_907.jpg (116KB, 800x186px) Image search: [Google]

116KB, 800x186px

>>2368341
Have you tried asking Tod of Todstuff? He's done singlesticks before. I don't don't know if he'll sell the baskets on their own, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

>>2370159
>Todstuff
He does excellent work, but the cost and length of turnaround would both be a little much. Thanks though.

File: 1359081205191.jpg (605KB, 1769x1255px) Image search: [Google]

605KB, 1769x1255px

Do we know enough about how Romans fought to study them in earnest? Were their methods too reliant on formations for them to be all that useful for HEMAtites?

>>2370393
>Do we know enough about how Romans fought to study them in earnest?
No.
>Were their methods too reliant on formations for them to be all that useful for HEMAtites?
Yes.

Same with Ancient Greeks or any such period.

Next question please.

>>2370393
>>2370847

Armies don't care much about individual combat skills beyond basic level and soldiers don't have time to pursue excellence in fighting with sidearms like swords.

I don't think dueling was a big thing back then, so we don't have learned well-to-do men with time, resources and interest to be total autists about individual combat skills, then write it down.

>We initially stocked 20 gorgets which we expected to last several months. They sold in two days and we now have back orders for 70 of which yours is one.
>We are expecting new stock in 4 - 6 weeks time and will then ship your order straight away.
>they removed it from the website to avoid new orders
Holy hell, seems like those gorgets got popular real quick.

what are /hema/s views on jian fa? i attended a seminar in toronto last year taught by scott rodell, the group was about half jian fa practitioners and half hema. i haven't had the chance to study with the group since im on the other side of the country, but im planning on starting a group at my martial art school. what's the best way to introduce people to tested swordsmanship when they've only done form before?
>i got books and a pair of wasters

What is a good site for an American to buy a synthetic feder to practice on?

I ordered a steel feder from Chlebowski, but from what I've read elsewhere, I might get it next year. I already have one of those $80 plastic swords but I'm rapidly getting tired of it because of how unbalanced it is.

>>2371928
>$80 plastic swords
Which brand? Otherwise just get some PH or BF synthetic longsword, just be aware that they are stiffer than most steel feders.

>>2372070
Rawllings. Purpleheart waaaay overcharges for their synthetics, so I guess BF is my only choice.

File: 1451437062805.jpg (89KB, 1110x440px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 1110x440px

>>2371927
Training anything other than Hema on 4chan feels like being a foreigner. There use to be room for again swordsmanship on /asp/ but threads die to fast now cause there are not enough of us

That said I will give my thoughts based on the few sparing videos and drilling videos I watched.

The guys do not move like CMA. CMA like JMA to a lesser extent, organize their bodies in some very specific ways for both unarmed and armed martial arts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLLsDXE__Fo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzsZN8KIuzw&list=PLpUUXCTr4Mp9-ZTHI67wpCBcO7OPJWW87

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5l7iuHYaTA

All the movement is done near the pelvic area. with the legs

Comparatively, These guys are moving in a far more upright, disjointed method, even when doing slow drills

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbRbH_H6u28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USIQqodAQDw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrYKad8rOmE


My understanding is this art is (Mostly) a reconstruction. This makes less sense to me then HEMA because while the Chinese martial arts have been damaged, several lieges with at least the rudiments survive. It would seem to me any reconstruction should start be studying the appllication of weapons in things like chen tai chi or Zing Yi Quan.

As for its combative applicability, I think its less polished than some of the Hema and koryu I have seen

>>2372264
jianfa.se seems to be a separate group from rodell's teachings, they also train HEMA. however both are from chen style tai chi and i see very similar techniques to what i was taught.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9VTu63NX5E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhWHaMLyx20

from my understanding jian fa has to opposite problem then HEMA in regards to recreating the art. while HEMA has all the bricks to rebuild what used to stand, jian fa has an ageing building in disrepair with a couple of squatters saying what they have is great.

>>2372390
better, I certainly dont see the same use of hip and legs as the Chen guys.

I dont know how combative their sword stuff is anymore but from what Ive seen of the sword and spear stuff from the top c hen guys they definitely have the proper gross movements that can be applied to fighting.

>>2372264
>>2372390

This all raises a question about hema. even if you accurately copy the techniques/drills form books, how do you know you're using things like the hips and spine in the same way?

>>2373223
>how do you know you're using things like the hips and spine in the same way?
Are you Gumby? If not, then humans can only move so many ways.

>>2373269
I think its pretty well established, perhaps not in Hema circles but certainly in Asian martial arts that there are a few different ways to generate power.

One sword art might say to cut with the hip behind the cut, another might say drive the cut with the center and keep the hips in place. They produce different results.

There are other things that can be done differently as well, that make an even bigger impact on sword fighting and grappling, but they are kind of esoteric and hard for me to describe in words without physical examples

File: 1482110089464.jpg (158KB, 960x690px) Image search: [Google]

158KB, 960x690px

>tfw losing hope of ever getting a federschwert
Even the synthetics are out of stock everywhere, and I'm not dropping hundreds of dollars for Purpleheart meme stuff.

>>2374181
>Purpleheart meme stuff
Are they that horrible?

>>2374181
>>2374870
What's the complaint with them? I've always thought they were fine - nothing special, really, but solid synthetics.

>>2346031
>>2346077
The girl charging does looks pretty

>>2346243
>feminine

>>2375794
She looks like my brother in a dress

>>2361593
No, it's because the give in the padding means that with a cut, there's no pressure pushing the gambeson against the edge, or not enough anyway. With a hewing or stabbing blow the gambeson is compressed against the body and there's nowhere for it to "go", so the sword penetrates.

>>2375794
>The girl charging does looks pretty
Big tranny chaser, huh?

>>2296090
what do you guys think of the stuff Blood & Iron put up on youtube?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsBbd3QJ-IT2g8kSvq3r3RA

Turbo autist here, how exactly do I use the CommunityWalk link in the op? I just get to a page with words explaining the map, but no actual map

>>2379399
Make sure you don't have noscript screwing up the site.
Try a different browser.

>>2377997
Good info, although please god let someone give them presentation/acting skills...
>"Hello I am Anon..."
>"Hello I am Anonette..."
>"Today we will be talking about swords."
>"Really?"
>"Yes."

fuck me it's hard to watch...
Just don't be like this dude kek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RA0gUb1tZo
I can't believe people still aren't using a 5D at the minimum.

Test cutting.

I almost practice solo. I can make it in the cities to meet with the only local HEMA group one a week at best. They don't do test cutting. I have only practiced cutting through air to get that cutty air sound.

Is it worthwhile to buy some tatami and test my cutting solo?

>>2382421
you can make cheap targets out of rolled up newspaper soaked in water

>>2382421
Test cutting, without learning from an instructor and integrating it into what you do is not very valuable.

Someone can be taught to cut tatami in a day, doesn't make them a swordsman

>>2382595
I mean we throw out anything with visibly bad edge alignment. I'd say the sparring and drills are solid. Just no test cutting. It's not like I'm only learning to cut tatami.

>>2374181
>and I'm not dropping hundreds of dollars for Purpleheart meme stuff.
The fuck? They're $125. I've had mine for about 3 years now without any problems.

File: Beads-5-Cut.jpg (112KB, 645x645px) Image search: [Google]

112KB, 645x645px

>>2382483
>you can make cheap targets out of rolled up newspaper soaked in water
I've never been able to get this to work. :(

Tatami is to expensive here in Australia to practice on (in tournaments I get it's expected).

I have however tried:
>2l Milk bottles full of gelatin
>The above with a piece of dowl wood set in it (Poor Man's Balistics Jel)
>Clay
>Lead cutting

They all teach different things.

Also fuck he guy who mixed straw in with clay.

>>2383434
>They all teach different things.
Oh and just in case anyone is wondering, you have to really get in the headspace to cut some of this harder staff.
>Clay? Are you willing to permantly bend or warp your sword because of your shitty edge alignment?
>Lead? Are you willing to tolerate the ringing in your ears and potentially snapping yet another sword because you didn't deliver the cut in a drawing manner and just struck it.
>Jelly Milk Bottles? Fun for the whole family, no issues here, but prepare them DAYS in advance and keep chilled.

File: Nszav.jpg (170KB, 750x1200px) Image search: [Google]

170KB, 750x1200px

>>2370393
>Do we know enough about how Romans fought to study them in earnest?
Not really. I think it would be possible however to create a modern, basic system for fighting with Roman gear by taking the small shreds of direct information we have and filling up the rest with medieval/renaissance sword and sources (though the weapons are of cource very different) and experimentation. I think that the natue of the weapon combination would make the result similar to how the Romans fought.

>Were their methods too reliant on formations for them to be all that useful for HEMAtites?
First of all, the formations thing is way overblown when it comes to Roman combat doctrine.
When compared to hoplite doctrine, the classical Legionary style used far more spacing between individuals. This was to allow the formation to behave more flexibly, maneuver quicker and to allow for things like cycling the tired and wounded out from the front.
This flexibility meant that individual combat skills were definitely very useful.

The main reason I think the Romans didn't document much is because fighting with Gladius and Scutum is inherently rather uncomplicated, I imagine they just taught some basic things and the rest was just about getting very good at those basics.

I think we can figure out those basics and recreate something that gets close.
Experimenting with gear from the classical period, as Roland Warzecha has done with migration period stuff, would be fun as fuck I imagine, although strictly speaking not true HEMA as the sources are insufficient.

>>2370393
Romans relied more on formations than actual martial skill

Check out modern Riot Police tactics, if you were to give Riot Police swords instead of batons, rioters will get the fuck out of Dodge fast once they realize how massively they are being BTFO

File: tmp_5075-1487963151817-1999124829.jpg (225KB, 518x3465px) Image search: [Google]

225KB, 518x3465px

Don't go

>>2383696
The Romans relied on martial skill to allow for looser, more flexible formations.

>In the battle line, each man should have three feet of space, while the distance between the ranks is given as six feet.
So that's a significant amount of room for movement compared to a tightly spaced phalanx. This let them use individual initiative far more than a tighter, more rigid formation would allow for, but it did mean that soldiers would need to be better drilled and trained in individual combat skills.
If you think about it, the short reach of the Gladius and the usage of Pila is pretty incompatible with dense formations. You need quite a bit of room to throw a Pilum effectively, and if you're huddled up in a shield wall, you'll have a hard time fighting more mobile enemies who might choose to skirmish or engage you with weapons that outrange yours - this is what made the Hoplite Phalanx so ineffective against Macedonian pike formations as they were outreached and too rigidly organized to get beween and past the pikes.
Perhaps later Hellenic soldiers like Thyreophoroi were intended as a counter to the Macedonian Phalanx, as they were light, javelin-armed and in a flexible formation?

>>2385815
There is a line in Tacitus where he bemoans the rise of boxing and wresting over the practice of weapons and military drill.

>>2383434
>Lead cutting
Anyone an idea what a good to excellent condition victorian era lead cutter is worth?
>yes, got one

>>2309509
Me.

>>2348230
What was the mistake?

t. not a native English speaker

>>2356740
>William's armour was shit because he was French


delet

>>2358245
>shitty

DE

>>2387856
>DE
?

>>2315451
nice vids!

>>2385752
poor roo :(

>>2356740
>Jesus, It's a FUCKING BIBLE it's literally the Manga of MEDIEVAL EUROPE.
I'm stealing that one.

>>2387841
>What was the mistake?
No mistake, just amusing how jokes and puns don't translate well.

>>2387868
LE

>>2380642
Never liked Blood and Iron. They act and talk like robots.

>>2389489
Are there better groups putting vids out?