10 yrs from now, which talents will be blamed for the collapse

Fedoramn pls.

Here are the responsible:

1 Roman Reigns, lost 1 million viewers in a year

2 Roman Reigns, made WWE waste time finding excuses because he's not over

3 Roman Reigns, leveled the product to his low standards

The problem isn't the talent, but the booking. Just look KO winning the title, almost 3 weeks ago and we still don't know why Triple H did that.

>>1794431
It's Stephanie McMahon.

As a guy in the creative industry, there are a lot of people who think they're creative when all they really do is faff, use their left brain, rely on graphs and statistics, use terms like "big data". Then they go on and create made up designations like "Chief Brand Officer". Hire Art Directors and Creative Directors who know shit about wrestling and take something ornamental like a Championship belt and turn it into Identity branding instead of Ornamental Design.

She would also deploy the idea of using the same stage template for every show. Take literal interpretation of "Digital Age" and make everything including the ring, out of LED Screens.

"memes are big" Lets make everything from enterance themes to xyz revolve around it rather than real story telling.

I could type an article on this

>>1794431
I reckon a combination of The Shield being pushed too hard and Trippple burying people left and right

>Roman wins last year's Royal Rumble and gets the lowest-rated Road to WrestleMania since 1997
>Seth's title run in last Summer outdrew *this* year's Road to WrestleMania

Makes ya think...

>>1794431
In order
1. Vince
2. Steph
3. Dunn
4. Haitch
5. Roman
6. Linda
7. Shane
8. Cena
9. Big Show
10. TJ Perkins

>>1794431
>Talent
Lol?

They can blame the stars all they want, but the real problem lies with Stef and her constant pushing of the womens division.

You can see from the last 6 RAWs, the one's that opened with women's wrestling absolutely tanked in viewer retention, where in one week they lost 0.6 MILLION people from the first hour (opened with a women's segment) to the second hour. Same happened with Smackdown this week, opened with a women's segment and tanked in viewership. Stef is the one pushing this shit internally, even though it's clear that the fan's aren't interested in the "Womens Revolution" that Stef is overly pushing.

A combination of Stef pushing the women and Vinny pushing Roman has utterly buried the brand. It's too much for the fans that don't like this shit to take.

>>1794487
You idiot, Stephanie hasn't been incharge of creative since atleast 2008.

Try again.

>>1794487
Steph is a literal silver-spoon idiot.

>>1794482
Reigns could get booking from Paul E and he still wouldn't be main event: he just doesn't have IT.

The Shieldnettys

>>1794505
>Daddy's Little Girl doesn't have stroke

Shane never had an official creative position during The Attitude Era yet he's arguably the biggest reason why it even happened.

>>1794482
>almost 3 weeks ago and we still don't know why Triple H did that
I agree that piss poor story telling, lack of continuity and muddled, unclear motivations for the "characters" (if you can even call them that) coupled with what has become, with the internet being so prevalent in the fandom now, a smarkier crowd that Creative just don't know how to handle.

>>1794491
> Trippple burying people left and right

Actually I would say its the lack of burying that has ruined the product. Bunch of indy midgets needed to be buried and unlike the mid-00s there was no triple H to do the deed. As a result of this, the crowds gotten more and more entitled and started demanding way more manlets and midgets.

A good timely burial of unwanted trash would've kept the main event clean and credible.

Carny businesses like pro-wrestling always needs guys who can bury and take the heat for it. Its the lack thereof the past few years that has ruined the product.

>>1794431
Roman Reigns bar none. He literally caused a movement that severly hindered the WWE Network's growth.

>>1794512
> Shane never had an official creative position during The Attitude Era yet he's arguably the biggest reason why it even happened.


Utter fucking nonsense. Stop being such a shane fanboi.

>>1794431
>Seth Rollins

>charismaless

I don't get this meme. I find him good on the mic, which is passable for me (not Titus tier) plus his laugh is epic as fuck

>>1794515
For whatever reason they're just saving the HHH reveal for RAW next week (after he interferes at CoC).

Every other promotion has, by definition, a smarkier crowd but they don't have storytelling crises like WWE.

>>1794519
Yes, how dare the crowd demand what they want to see rather than what the office wants to see. That'd be terrible. WHAT?

>>1794519
Cuckvin Nash pls

The biggest reason WWE went to shit is the fact that they started acknowledging the post wrestlemania crowds. Instead of fighting those idiots and their unwanted hipster chants, WWE caved in and started giving them more encouragement. They even had a fucking slammy for it. Then came the Bryan/Rumble/YES garbage, and it has been downhill ever since.

So yes, I would say whoever is responsible for acknowledging and feeding the post-WM smark menace on-air is the culprit deserving of all blame.

>>1794519
Haitch kinda buried CM Punk and he was anxious to bury Dbry

>>1794527
People don't know what they truly want. That's why the internet killed entertainment. Creatives care more about trending topics than doing their job

>>1794527
> Yes, how dare the crowd demand what they want to see rather than what the office wants to see. That'd be terrible. WHAT?

A child wants some ice-cream, you buy the kid ice-cream, a child wants more ice-cream, you buy more ice-cream. The child now wants the ice-cream truck, you buy the kid the truck, now the kid wants the fucking production unit, what do? Nothing, because you're already bankrupt by this point.

Smark base are similar, you don't give them everything they demand, they never appreciate. It only cheapens your value, where you become a sucker who lost control.

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Triple H

After he started pushing the indie darlings from NXT, ratings severely went down the drain. I guess you can blame smarks for that too

>>1794542
Punk wasn't buried, Haitch was going into feud with Taker for the HIAC match, he just couldn't lose to Punk as a face. If he was a heel, the entire thing would've went similar to Authority Angle vs Bryan. But Vince probably decided Punk wasn't worth it, unlike the case with Bryan, where he clearly deemed him worthy of entire wrestlemania 30 event.

>>1794519
This is a very interesting post. I never saw this from this angle.

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>>1794544
>People don't know what they truly want.

*Royal Rumble crowd going BANANA! for Bryan*
*he gets anticlimactically eliminated so Vince can force Reigns down everybody's throats*

>>1794554
I guess the WHAT? reference was too subtle for you, lad.

>>1794560
Bryan wasn't supposed to be on the main event of Wrestlemania 30, the creatives changed plans because the crowd reactions and the massive rejection toward Batista

>>1794560
lol Vince didn't think Bryan was "worthy" of anything, he literally had to put Bryan in the main event if he wanted his Network to not flop.

>>1794565
Not saying the audience has to eat every crap the company give them but the solution isn't to follow every command of the audience either.

>>1794570

which proved to be the nail in the coffin for wwe, making fans think they can dictate the direction of the company. now we have nothing but indie shitters like ginger muslim and fat francophone and "women's wrestling." thanks, smarks. i guess you showed everyone how awesome you are.

>>1794572
>literally a Supply & Demand industry with the most direct access to the consumer
>not giving them what they clearly ask for

Sound business acumen.

>>1794573
Do I post another Stone Cold jpeg or will that go over your head too?

>>1794565
>>1794569

Bryan's push made fuck all money to WWE. so I'm not sure what's the point of using that to prove your point. Literally a year later the guy who supposedly was "forced" down throats as per your posts, shattered any and every record made by wrestlemania 30, and he did that once again a year after WM 31 as well. What does that say about Bryan and his overness?

>>1794570
>he literally had to put Bryan in the main event if he wanted his Network to not flop.

Proof of this claim? If anything Vince's biggest plan was bringing Batista back which obviosuly didn't go well but guess what? batista is a mega star now, and Bryan is retired crippled hack. Not to mention the network only drew 600K subscribers following WM 30, keep in mind this is 10 bucks. WM 28 with the rock drew 722k domestic buys at 65 bucks a buy. This is really telling of Bryan's "super stardom".

Whatever it may have been, Finn Balor winning the universal championship was definitely the nail in the coffin.

CM Punk exposing himself and the business along with it (he is world championship material as far as wrestling kayfabe powerlevels are concerned) was the memorial service.

>>1794596
This.

Punk deserves the biggest blame imo. This guy kickstarted the internet era with his pipebomb and went to expose the wrestlers with his humiliating defeat at a UFC nobody. Thanks phil you fucking cuck.

I would say HHH from both a performer and decision making standpoint.

>>1794586
>>1794592
>this mad over The GOAT

The Rock having his first singles match in nearly a decade is a bigger draw than Bryan.

Did you have a point here or...?

>>1794596
>CM Punk exposing himself and the business along with it

Oh grow up.

>>1794599
>babby /wwe/ marks actually believe Punk invented the worked shoot

>>1794565
>crowd
The crowds are no longer representative of common fans. It's just smarks trying to get themselves over. Take the cameras off the picture and they don't give a shit about showing up (proven by DBry's abysmal house show track record). House shows are much more representative of the typical casual fan, which regardless of however much the smarks may whine about, is the one audience WWE should pander to if they want to survive.

>>1794602
>wwe loses credibility as a tough guy (scripted) competition as it pushes indie midgets and fatasses as main event talent, suffering both financially and in the ratings as a result
>a-at least I still have muh maturity!

>>1794431
> HHH only third

> blaming individuals and not the bookers
Wew lad

>>1794431
Easily, easily Roman Reigns. The biggest mis-step in the history of the company.

>>1794487
Stephanie doesn't even have much actual booking power. Get more fuckin' worked, mark.

>>1794608
And yet every crowd for the better part of the last 2 years has booed Reigns outta the fuckin' building, including those at house shows on the other side of the fuckin' planet in nations like China & The Philippines.

Boo-hoo.

>>1794622
>thinking legitimacy has ever mattered in the company that deifies HBK

WWE's big decline began when they were pushing Lesnar as "The Next Big Thing" lad. 18+

>>1794632
But it did. People were tuning out when they tried to make HBK the guy.

>>1794431
It's Vince. Raw his a 3 hour senior moment every Monday.

If I had to pick an on air talent, it's obviously Reigns. He was pushed way too much too fast. I think they thought they could get away with it because they assumed the Shield heat would stay with Reigns but it just evaporated. He needed a badass midcard singles push, not a WrestleMania main event against Bork.
Go back and watch Reigns' NXT debut. The commentators act like he is headed to be the greatest of all time. It's embarrassing and it's a sign of them putting too much on Roman too fast--for whatever reason.

>>1794670
And they were turning into the Hogan & Outsiders show, none of whom were legit tough guys.

>>1794694
>for whatever reason.

He was a TV pretty ex-footballer who came from a wrestling dynasty.

People were calling Reigns as the next pet project before The Shield even debuted, it was really obvious that Vince would have a chub for him.

>>1794700
>Hogan & Outsiders show
> none of whom were legit tough guys.

Get your brain checked you Autist faggot.

>>1794694
- reminder Reigns headlined two of the biggest wrestlemania's history, one of them THE BIGGEST ever.

- reminder Reigns' first title win on RAW brought in a 27% increase in viewership, same the Rock's return after 8 long years did.

- reminder Reigns commands a huge social media following with 14m fb fans and 2m twitter followers.

- reminder Reigns is the most talked about/discussed about/ polarising talent in wrestling since Cena.

- reminder that Reigns is actually over with the casuals unlike any of the manlets.

>>1794700
>Hogan
>Scott Hall
>Kevin Nash
>not legit tough guys

Even if they were crybaby pussies (which there is plenty of dirt on Hogan to argue about), it's perception that matters. Over 6 feet tall buff guys looks considerably tougher than Chris Jericho no matter how much he brags about subduing goldberg in a backstage fight in his little book.

>>1794714
So you've got their shootfighter records on hand then?

>Kevin "I Never Picked A Fight I Couldn't Back Out From" Nash
>Scott "Jericho Talked Back To Me Once And I Wimped Out" Hall

>>1794733
Nash once whopped a bouncer's ass at a bar fight. Like Annihilated him apparently. Look it up.

>>1794724
Yeah, all those people chanting for NXT midcarders during the WrestleMania main event paid to see Romannetty.

Vince returning drew those ratings.

Sheamus has more Twitter followers.

>- reminder that Reigns is actually over with the casuals unlike any of the manlets.

He gets fucking booed at house shows in Asia.

>implying that being "polarising" is a good quality for YOUR TOP BABYFACE

>>1794726
And yet when Jericho challenged Scott to put up or fuck off, guess who backed down?

>>1794735
According to who?

>ib Nash

>>1794733
>Kevin "I Never Picked A Fight I Couldn't Back Out From" Nash

Worked as a bouncer for a strip club before getting into the business. Army guy. Put "legitimate tough guy" Piper in his place.

>Scott "Jericho Talked Back To Me Once And I Wimped Out" Hall
>believing a word Jericho says about wcw

Hall put Jericho over when he was booked not to simply because he saw potential in Jericho and Jericho thanked him by slandering him and 90% of the wcw roster in his book that reads out of a smark's wet dream.

>>1794743
>asks for source on Nash's legitimacy
>believes chris jerishill without question

>>1794739
>Yeah, all those people chanting for NXT midcarders during the WrestleMania main event paid to see Romannetty.

> Implying those people weren't trolling for the sake of trolling.

> Implying suckers actually paid for an event that they knew had Reigns in the main events, paid close to 1000 bucks for front row seats and chanted for NXT midcarders.


> Vince return drew

Vince returned in the first segment of RAW, which drew a measly 2% bump.

> Sheamus twitter

Never said fella aint popular, he has his irish followers.

> booed at asia

Nonsense, 1.2 billion, thats fucking BILLION Pajeets love Reigns. They regularly celebrate his birthday.

> Polarising top face

Been that way since Cena and Cena has some of the biggest buys and ratings to his credit.

>>1794745
>strip club bouncer

kek

>army guy

So?

>beat up an old guy with an artificial hip

What a man.

>slandering

lol the Kliq babby is triggered

>>1794751
If a pathological liar like Big Daddy Fool told me what colour my orange juice was I'd double-check.

>>1794754
>They regularly celebrate his birthday.

You almost had me going until this part, sport.

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>>1794754
>and Cena has some of the biggest buys and ratings to his credit.

You know who's got more?

Babyfaces who actually had mass appeal.

>>1794772
You're really invested in trying to overwrite the reality that Nash, Hall and Hogan were draws, aren't you?

>>1794779
I literally made no comment on their drawing abilities you insecure cretin.

>>1794778
Hogan is a success of his time.
Austin isn't even a true babyface, he's a tweener.

These guys are right place right time cases.

Fandango ...

He started stupid chant , unfair beat true Sex VVarrior Jeriqo , and made gay GLT mowement big in VVVVE . Now they are trying get Sport Entertainment banish in my state for gay GLT content ;

>>1794519
Nah, new talent can't get over with Trips just fucking them up. This is what caused the slump in the mid 00s when the new talent didn't have a chance against established WWE draws, and is why in 2016 they're STILL relying on the old stays to put butts in seats

>>1794554
>4chan tries analogies

Why does it always completely evade you guys how to do a decent analogy

The guy who literally got raw record low ratings: Seth Rollins

>>1794602
fuck off redditor

Linda McMahon

>>1794477
KEK

>>1794431
It's the piss poor booking and storytelling, combined with 3 hour RAWs that are killing the company.

But if you have to blame a talent, then probably Roman.

>Wasted over a year trying to force feed him to fans who didn't want him for the most part
>Wasted even more on screen time making excuses for why he wasn't popular, even going as far as to tell people to ignore the audience
>Rather than give him time to improve,they forcibly bring the rest of the roster down to his level
>Repeatedly force active and retired talent to shill to him at any opportunity

But even then it's still Vince's fault.

>>1794477
>>1794908
FedoRamen Stalker confirmed for Carter

Hes even samefagging his posts like he always does

Daniel Bryan. Batista would have saved the WWE if he won the championship.

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1. Benoit

>shut down blood
>shut down chair shots
>shut down steroids
>shut down ECW comebacks
>shut down fun
To the McMahons, it wasn't worth continuing the success of the attitude era.

2. CM Punk
Making wrestlers look even weaker than they already did.
3. Triple H
Finishing off everyone from WCW. Letting his ego go out of control
4. Stephanie McMahon
Being herself.
5. John Cena
For being a failed bodybuilder and using WWE to collect his retirement fortune. Also for burying any up and coming stars


That's it. I also blame the fans for being retarded sheep.

>>1795359
Daniel Bryan will be remembered as a hero and the last good thing the company gave. Search your feelings, you know it is true

>>1794833
>Austin isn't a true babyface, he's a tweener

Fuck off moron.

>>1794889
>popped the highest rating in 5 years

FUN FACT: his Summer as WWE Champion outrated this year's Road to WrestleMania.

>>1795359
>2-month reign as a babyface nobody likes who can't work

Oh yeah, that would've sold their Network.