>"I DONT NEED ANY OF YOU" >huge crowd pop This

>continues to be a chicken

I fucking hate Vince.

>>1321863
Of course they have to force him to be the heel. Roman can't go against a face who is getting better reactions then he is!

>They basically turned Styles heel for their feud
>now they are turning Seth heel
>both are cheered more than Roman

No clue why they won't just turn him heel.

>>1321866
I'm fine with him coming back as a heel, but this infuriates me so much.

>>1321866
cant wait till he dies

>>1321876
This. How is he going to make Roman look strong if he himself looks weak? At least AJ was 50/50 with Chris Geriartricho before Roman beat him clean twice in a row with two (2) spears.

One thing that was really cool about AJ/Reigns is both did look strong, until the Extreme Rules burial.

AJ wasn't a chickenshit heel like Seth.

>huge crowd pop

Get some ears. And a brain while you're at it.

>>1321868
sunken cost fallacy

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>>1321887
>Geriartricho
>not appreciating the true GOAT who is more experienced and hard-working than any other active wrestler today

Off the top of my head, he's currently rivaled only by Jushin Liger maybe in raw wrestling experience.

>>1321897
I think you should do that. You're blind contrarian shit posting doesnt change a thing.

>>1321863
>MILLIONAIRE WHO COULD BE A BILLIONAIRE

>>1321866
This is the part that makes me go "What?" Make him a heel, make him an asshole, but making him scared of Roman is just so fucking stupid.

>>1321866
That whole Rebuild Redesign Reclaim shit was supposed to give him a face push, but nope. Nothing was redesigned, same old shit. Vince is fucking desperate.

>>1321903
Your head is pretty empty then.

>>1321863
>>1321922

I think the idea is the WWE is trying to deliberately create a "hated babyface" like Cena and Roman in Seth because that dynamic of the guy you love to hate gives the most match up possibilities and it allows Seth to keep his god tier chickenshit antics.

that or Steph's face turn is legit lol.

>>1322151
she has a book coming out so no doubt her face turn is legit

I don't even like Seth but what the fuck kind of shit return was that. That's it? He didn't do shit. Someone cue up the Scott Steiner return video.

>>1322168
Seth won't take one bump before MITB

>>1322164
so what you are saying is there won't be any chapters about Macho Man and pegging.

>>1322151
WHETHER YOU LOVE HIM OR HATE HIM YOU'RE PASSIONATE ABOUT HIM! A LUV IT MAGGLE!

>>1322187
This is true though

>>1322190
Passion is not there for roman tho

>>1322193
What? If the crowds didn't give a shit about him they wouldn't boo him, they would give him utter silence like sandow as mitb holder, stardust, Tyler breeze, vaudevillians, etc

>>1321868
Gotta keep Roman strong.

Seth is not a heel.

>>1322198
they only boo him because they want him to go away

>>1322198
And if Reigns was getting "pushed" like any of those guys he WOULD get silence.

>>1322151

"Love to hate" is SUPPOSED to be a heel's reaction, not a face's.

And it's really fine that the 99% of every crowd hates Roman, the problem is that these fucking idiots won't use that to put a babyface over like Booking 101 dictates. They'll just push Roman until people stop watching entirely because they hate the show. Just like they did when WWE shoved Triple H down everyone's throats for a goddamn year. Just like they did when WWF shoved Lex Luger down everyone's throats.

Really, what was the PPV main event that gave the crowd something they wanted to cheer for? What was the last PPV that had more Stuff To Cheer For that stuff people hated?

They don't have to give the fans happy endings consistently. Doing so would only serve to lessen the impact of the Good Guys winning, and ultimately make everyone sick of the Good Guy (like they did with Cena). But they do have to give the audience enough shit to cheer for on a consistent basis if they want ANYONE to keep watching this shit.

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>>1322198
It's sad that they've gone to such extreme lengths to try and get him over
>RAW before mania is literally just Hunter's last attempt to get him over
>booed at Takeover
>Had all the babyfaces (besides Ryder) lose so they'd want to see Roman win
>Mute the entire Wrestlemania crowd and turn up the commentary
>actually say "its the RAW after mania so crowds cheer for guys they hate and boo guys they love" as a preemptive strike against the crowd
>come up with a good slogan for him that's kinda heelish but still makes him look like a face
>overuses it and fans boo
>now you have the heel commentator putting over a face with the "you're passionate" line
>gets booed at every ppv and live show
>crowds chant "Roman sucks"
>tries a new move or has a good looking spot
>crowd chants "you still suck" as a way of saying "that was cool, but we still don't like you"

they could have let him be the badass Samoan who just kills people like that night he snapped and beat up Triple H, but instead he has to be pushed as a Cena clone.

>>1322219
Not to mention
>take anti-roman signs away
>could plainly see the "when it reigns it bores" sign last RAW then they zoomed in on Roman's face and you can see the security guys shifting around behind him then you never see that sign again
>If an anti-roman sign happens to make it into a photo on the website they photoshop it
>had a photo with the "when it reigns it bores" sign on it that suddenly was changed to "when it reigns"

I don't think they even went to these lengths with Cena...

>>1322151
I think there is a problem with doing that because if you just say "Like him or hate him everyone has an opinion!" then you as a booker can't really gauge the reaction to him properly, If he gets booed hard does it mean the segment is bombing? or does it mean this is an Anti-guy town? If you're just giving the crowd free reign to cheer or boo whatever and saying that you won't change it then it keeps the character static and boring. I'd rather they just flip them back and forth every year or so like any other wrestler.

>>1321863
roman is the face of the company, go fuck yourself manlet smark

>>1321863

>crowd cheering at a shitty boring heel promo

This is what WWE has come to.

>>1321868

>now they are turning Seth heel

When the hell did he turn face?

>>1322219

Good breakdown.

>>Had all the babyfaces (besides Ryder) lose so they'd want to see Roman win

Even after years of being amazed at the stupidity of smarks, I couldn't believe more didn't pick up on this and shout from the rafters after WM. It was as clear as day.

>>1322307
Are you on the payroll? I really could use something to help pay the rent next month. Do you think you can hook me up with a shill job? Or maybe just someone to suck the shit straight from Vince McMahon's asshole. Either one would do.

>>1322307
FedoRamen

>>1322325
The guy clearly had a huge face reaction returning. And I for one wasn't surprised by it. WWE so wasn't, it's why he came out and trashed the fans, to get heat. Because they don't want anyone else to be a face going up against Roman.

>>1322484
Yeah. Injury return + hard/good worker + Roman + Smark favourite = P O P
Credit to him, he turned the tide well. He didn't cut some ungodly Heel promo, and went straight for the cheap heat (fuck your well-wishes, I don't need you), but still. Mission accomplished.
They're right back into booking him so fucking horribly that they force fans to boo because they simply don't like what they're seeing.
And this is their successful top Heel.
Dye that fucker's hair blonde, let him be a Saiyan, turn him babyface and shunt Dean into an important Heel role, for fucks sake.
They BOTH need it.

whats happening itt ?
whos roman and vince ?

>>1321866
It doesn't make sense either.
His last feud win before the injury was over DEMON KANE
DEMON
KANE
WHY WOULD YOU BE A CHICKENSHIT HEEL AFTER BEATING THE IN KAYFABE TOP 5 MONSTERS OF THE WWE

>>1322604
WWE tends to think you have the attention span of a chicken and the memory of a goldfish. They repeat promos they only just cut last week and forget all about character development. The company is absolute shit at telling a story.

>>1322484
Hurrr durrr the wwe has no heels, better turn one of your biggest heels face when he's not even over!

>>1321903

You guys hear him say "I'm so sorry" to Apollo as he pinned him? Jericho is a stand up guy who wants to help the younger generation get over but Vince isn't letting him.

This was the best promo Seth has ever done.

He must have been practicing his mic skills while he was away.

>>1322789
>not even over
Hi Joe! Shouldn't you be in acting classes trying to get a positive crowd reaction that will never happen?

>>1322633
No Vince, we Remember XFL

>>1321912

Hi Phil!

Rather than have Seth return as a face, wouldn't it make a bigger impact if Roman and Seth did a double turn at MITB?

>>1322954
I feel like that's what it's leading up to with Steph ignoring Seth

Maybe he isn't actually cleared to do anything yet (other than that pedigree).

Can't have him come back the same episode as cena, and 2 weeks from now wouldn't be enough build for mitb.

>>1322954
It would, but we have to feed everyone who is over to Roman. I'm sure once Orton returns he'll feud with Roman as well.

>>1321863
>"you guys sent me all these get well soon messages"
>"blah blah blah"
>"you guys weren't there for me when I was rehabbing"

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>>1322796
Based Vince.
Apollo couldn't even sell that he lost because of the Sheamus attack.

>>1322796
Apollo said he was sorry for botching his spot.

>>1323046
I hope he gets taken off of TV for that
He's a waste of time anyway.

>>1322336
you know, when i think about this shit i really do wonder if roman really is a meta-heel and they're playing us like fiddle

>>1323049
Meh he's okay. Better than Tyler breed or social outcast or baron Corbin or dean

>>1323057
Social outcasts are great jobbers and can cut funny low-card promos
Rest I agree on. At least Crews can flip, those faggots bring nothing

>>1322954
Sorry boy, this ain't the 90s anymore. Nobody with any shred of ring psychology is allowed to make decisions anymore.

We'll never see a double turn when it was needed like the Rattlesnake and the Hitman again.

I'm still upset about sting

>>1323068
About the Seth/Sting match? Sting blamed himself for not tucking his neck tight enough, which is fishy considering that's the most rookie mistake.

>>1323084
one bump does not spinal stenosis make, anon

>>1321866
Vince doesn't know how to make a heel that isn't a cartoonish throwback to 80s heels of the Hulkamania era.

All chickenshits who are overly evil and kick puppies and always complaining and running away from everything.

>>1323097
Stings spine was jacked before he entered the ring that night. If you are going to blame anything on Seth it would be for being the straw that finally broke the camels back, somewhat literally.

>>1323084

The match, the unnecessary powerbomb (he already did it once before in the match).

I'm angry about the entire run Sting had in WWE. But its what he agreed to and signed off on.

>>1323064
This anon tells a painful truth.

roman isn't a heel because his kid's merch is such a cash-cow (like cena's merch).

kids will the top 'face' no matter what

>>1323120
*will cheer

>>1323120
His merch can't even outsell phallic Unicorn headbands

I'm fairly new to wrestling and I genuinely don't understand the creative process. What do they base who is face and heel, who wins and loses and shit, on if not crowd reactions? I've heard that they have plans way in advance and stuff but also that they're constantly rewriting even up to the events sometimes?

>>1323146
usually creative will have a plan for a guy to be a heel or face depending on what they think he is good at.

if they don't get the response they are looking for, they'll try to change some stuff up either with that wrestler (altering gimmicks) or choose an opponent which might get the correct response.

tommy dreamer was considered a pretty boy faggot by ecw crowds until he allowed the shit to be kicked out of him with a kendo stick as the failure for losing a match

they've tried to fiddle with roman reigns and his opponents to make him face but it hasn't worked for years now

>>1323146
Marketability

>>1323146
Usually, but this is also the WWE we're talking about. Vince is notorious for going with things anyways despite reaction and forcing creative to continue trying to make his guy into the vision Vince sees of him.

Lex Luger and Drew McIntyre jump to mind immediately. Eventually Vince will either see the writing on the wall when his bottom line starts getting hit, somebody tells him it's retarded and not working or he just sorta loses interest in them overnight.

We're just stuck with it right now because Vince is 100% convinced that Roman is the future because he has the aesthetic that Vince likes in his wrestlers; muscly, long hair, tall, handsome and good at doing the whole screaming hulking out thing.

>>1323146
Literally the whims of Vince and nothing more.

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>>1323164
>handsome

I'm not that gay or a woman but is this really true? I can recognize John Cena as being a handsome dude and I see far more twitter fangirls for Seth and Dean.
Vince just likes the Somoans... probably wants to fuck Joe.

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>>1323188
bitches love roman dude.

>>1322219
as someone who was at the RAW after mania, I can honestly state, without reservation, pictures of Hitler wouldn't get as much of a negative reaction as any time Reigns was mentioned.

>>1323229
i was there too and it was nothing but smarks.

>>1323207
I hate this picture. That woman cucks the guy out so fucking hard that it makes my penis retract in sympathy

>>1323230
Yep, pretty much. And it was delicious.

>>1323230
ok?

>>1323051
They played me right out of their paying audience 6 months ago, I haven't watched RAW or a ppv since TLC.

>>1323246
via streams right? they dont care about that if its via actual tv and network then nicely done.

>>1323251
Not sure what you mean, but I cancelled my network sub and just stopped watching the show, I've never streamed any wrestling.

>>1323146
You have to understand that creative don't watch WWE. They have no idea how their script goes on live television until Vince yells at them afterwards.

It's a group of 20 something people which is way more writers than one program needs.

>>1322190
No, no, it's not. I'm not mad at Roman and I don't care about him. I'm mad at the company for insulting my intelligence and because I know they're capable of more. Not because I'm tsundere for Vince's pet project.

>>1322198
>If the crowds didn't give a shit about him they wouldn't boo him

The crowd will chant about anything when they get bored. Remember "Let's go Beach Ball; Beach ball sucks!" ?

>>1323309
And just to think when WWE was at its best it was 1-3 writers

>>1322250
That's because people initially liked Cena. It's a bad sign when fucking nobody likes your top guy right off the bat.

>>1323309
>You have to understand that I, an anonymous poster on the internet, am comprehensively privy to the backstage matters of this company that I watch the television show of

Do tell.

That was a good promo.

He's a better heel than face. Being a face is corny af

>>1322215

You can say that for The Miz, Sheamus, Alberto, etc. But at least they're playing heels so they have an excuse.

If they were getting cheered, they would've failed as even that.

>>1323343
I mean it's certainly not like they make this stuff common knowledge or anything.

Just like it took a magical wizard to find out that Shawn Michaels was a douche when he was younger. Any back stage knowledge can never be figured out.

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>>1323064
>We'll never see a double turn when it was needed like the Rattlesnake and the Hitman again.
When was the last time there was even a double turn?

.
>>1323499
Cena vs Batista I quit match

>>1323165
this

>>1323499
Del Rio vs Ziggler at Payback 2013

>>1323499

Cesaro & Kidd vs New Day

>>1323146

>What do they base who is face and heel, who wins and loses and shit, on if not crowd reactions?

It depends. If we're talking about the WWE, it's based on the whims of a thinly closeted, narcissistic, senile madman who still thinks it's 1984.

If we're talking about LU, it's based on character development and events over a season/seasons long arc, the actual wrestlers playing the characters themselves being secondary to why things are booked the way they are, even though they're instrumental in playing it out.

In TNA, the worst option is always what they go with.

In ROH, SPOTMONKEYWINSLOL. The only exception is Jay Lethal.

Why isn't he the face yet?

>>1322250
Because they didn't have to. People actually like Cena for a good while. He also has the charisma to shrug off crowds eating him alive.

Roman isnt going to get over and he can't carry the company. But Vince will legitimately let the product die before he gives up on him because he'd have to admit he was wrong.

>>1327083
Vince REALLY REALLY wants Roman to be cheered

>>1327254
Roman brought the wwe its greatest revenue in a quarter. But you're right he can't carry the company. Retarded smark. Hang yourself

>>1327269
>Doesn't outsell BMJ, New Day, Dean or AJ Styles
>Brought ratings lower than when Seth was champion

But yeah, a contrarian neckbeard on 4chan just gets to say he's a draw. Go fucking slit your throat basement dweller.

>>1327269
Says who? You got any numbers, faggot? You got any proof besides your sad attempt at bait?

>>1327269
kys ya manlet mark

>>1327295
Of course you are uneducated about the matter. Why am I even surprised. Look it up you fucking idiot. The numbers are right there. Q1 2016. Don't even expect a reply until you show me that you know what the fuck you're even talking about.

>>1327343
Q4 2015

How would you have rebooked his return?

>>1327375
>Same thing at extreme rules
>Rollins comes out on Raw
>Starts talking about his injury and the same heel shit
>"I don't need any of-"
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K07yVtzioI

>>1327375
with a pipe bomb

>>1321863
It is just the crowd man. Believe me. Everyone hates Seth. Roman is beloved by millions. The Rock endorses him damn it. Of course they love Roman. He is the guy. The crowds are just out of touch. Seth is the heel. It is so obvious people dislike him.

t. vinnie mac

I wonder how Vince sees the world tbqhfamalam.

>>1321863
Surely this is leading to a double turn... right?

>>1327389
>I wonder how Vince sees the world tbqhfamalam.
he's probably extremely delusional IRL