I can't seem to find a definitive answer for this anywhere

File: 18815998_568758796627979_914353928_n.jpg (65KB, 771x900px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 771x900px

the brain stem

>>2418673

Thank you for taking time out of your day.

>>2418669
Pretty much the temperature and the distance from the sun, perennial roots will suck the everloving shit out of soil nutrients too.

It's completely possible to make many of them live, as seen with tomato trees, but the natural cause thing is a mystery to us all.

>>2418709

So a house plant for example would technically live forever as long as you can provide bigger and better living conditions as they grow? ..until they move outside and then it's out of your hands?

Thanks for the info anyway :)

>>2418715
Yes, that's the assumption, but it doesn't answer what you were asking. Some of the plants will surely just die as if they were programmed to, which is a complete mystery.

Providing neutral soil and personally enriching it is way better than using that god awful miracle gro shit that people won't quit putting plants in.
It's a fact that plants started in the 'gro have EXTREMELY high nutrient demands, and this can contribute to stunting, eventual draining of the soil and death. I think this might be the answer we're after.
Plants in organic soil with manual organic additives thrive, unlike the weak ass stunted sticks that the 'gro makes. I find the dirt under pine trees right around February with needles included has given me the strongest plants, but the water retention is very high and gravel or perlite is a good idea.

Getting closer?

>>2418727
>which is a complete mystery.
No it's not. Programmed cell death is well researched and understood. And even if it doesn't occur aging still happens, and if a plant is not evolved to survive for very long its cells will deteriorate, even if the outside conditons are fine.

>>2418738
>"we should just listen to the scientists because they know more than us"

50 Year old tomato plants do exist my friend.

>>2418741
and there is probably a good scientific explanation for that, because someone will have looked into it

>le I know better than those dumb scientists meme
Well, why don't you enrich the world with your knowledge then?

>>2418744
>go to home depot/wal-mart
>buy marigolds
>put marigolds in pot
>add the blue crystal 'gro
>marigolds eat all the nutrients
>suddenly marigolds want more nutrients
>"It's too late in the year to fertilize muh plants with chemicals"
>plant dies
>"Must be a perennial or programmed cell death, it was doomed from the start"
>next year
>go back to home depot
>buy more marigolds

Stop shilling retard science. Cells are not programmed to die because you can't take care of a fucking mom plant without chemically fertilizing, stunting and increasing the demands of your shit flowers.
There are millions of examples of "perennial" plants surviving for many years.

>>2418749
Yes, because usually they are perennial because environmental conditions kill them. So abiotic factors.

This post >>2418727 said "Some of the plants will surely just die as if they were programmed to, which is a complete mystery."

"Some".

And these are the are perennial because of biotic factors. Which is not mysterious, we know how this works. That is what I was replying to.

Your reading comprehension is bad.

>>2418741
>tomatoes can exist as perennials
Yeah, common knowledge, thanks.

>therefore programmed cell death doesn't exist
What kind of special breed of fuckwit are you?

>>2418752
an hero.
Thanks.

Your microscope is not powerful enough to witness or understand a slight mutation in DNA that would cause a cell to die of anything but age, regardless of what you were told.
So many fucking "science" parrots in this world it's shocking.

>>2418758
No you don't get it.

He's very special for knowing that (even though tomatoes are grown year round in warmer climates) and not falling for the evil satan worshipping scientist lies. It's secret knowledge they don't want you to find out, so you continue buying $2,98 plants at walmart which will finance their satanic agenda.

File: IMG_201706179_042742.jpg (89KB, 320x351px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 320x351px

"This is the extent of my research."

The thread.

"Wikipedia isn't allowed to lie."

The delusion.

>>2418763
You guys just literally can not grow a plant or keep it alive, and the phenomenon was so prevalent that people invented the term "perennial" and the bunk science of "programmed death" which could never be explained by age or lack of nutrients. Never. No chance. Let's just explain our misunderstanding of mom plant needs by inventing new branches or science.

Sad.

File: 2.png (238KB, 1919x1084px) Image search: [Google]

238KB, 1919x1084px

>>2418761
>he thinks you use a microscope to look at DNA

Oh my microscopes, while certainly powerful, are not the tool I use to look at DNA, my young and/or very uneducated friend.

"Necrosis was long seen as a non physiological process that occurs as a result of infection or injury."

"Necrosis is the death of a cell caused by external factors such as trauma or infection"

LOL.
I can't fucking believe people still take that god awful site seriously. Look at the blatant contradiction. That's real humor.

>>2418775

OP here, I took that extract as saying that both 'natural' death and death caused by outside factors exist.

The idea of this 'programmed cell death' confuses me as I was under the assumption that just like humans we constantly produce new cells on a cycle...

So specifically which part of the plant (and it's cells) is affected by this supposed programmed cell death?

>>2418783
They can't answer your question because they got the info from wikipedia.
Plant cells reproduce infinitely. There is no reason for a static plant that is fed organics to die. There is great reason for an over demanding 'gro plant to starve itself to death. I think we're looking at mediums, temperature and care, not biology.

Why would plants keep root bundles and grow the next year if they were programmed to die?

>>2418783
Nah, programmed cell death is probably not the cause here. Things don't kill themselves like that, in plants and such it's used, for example, to kill the cells holding petals together to make a flower open.

What kills these plants is simply lack of cell upkeep. Cells can (theoretically) live forever, as they can completely repair themselves. Repairs aren't perfect so errors accumulate, but many plant cells can reproduce indefinitely. Old cells are killed via apoptosis as well.

However, why bother replacing your cells at the end of autumn when you're a perennial plant (in nature) that won't survive the winter anyway? Better to put that energy into more seed production. So they stop cell upkeep after a certain point because it makes no sense.

There are however different triggers for that. If it's temperature or light that triggers this we can easily prevent it from triggering artifically.

If it's a timer induced by hormone concentration we theoretically could also change that but it would be very hard.

But then most plants use a combination of different sensors to perceive outside conditions so in reality its more complicated than that.

>>2418787
typing a real answer takes some time
spouting bullshit doesn't, that's why you always reply first

Ah thank you, got a final answer there by the looks of it. Unsure where this argument 'stems' from exactly, sounds like you're both saying similar things to a degree!

>>2418787

So are you basically saying if a plant over produces itself and scales up, then realises it cannot support itself within it's conditions then it can fuck itself and die?

>>2418807
Yes.
It's commonly referred to as "miracle gro" because it miraculously kills your plants every august.

Me pissing on them doesn't help.