When a gorillabro learns sign language does he actually understand

>>2357290
I think that one grey parrot is the only animal to ever ask a question.

yes, gorillas are as smart as fairly dumb humans

they can sign in simple sentences and even have a sense of humor
they are also aware that they are gorillas and are something different from humans

>>2357348
This makes me sad knowing they're kept in zoos, most in fairly small enclosures.

Is it dumb for me to feel bad about that

>>2357290
what about that one gorilla who was taught by another gorilla and was able to sign about its parents being killed by poachers?

>>2357348
Wow, cool. Any material on this?

>>2357350
god no.
It's empathy to feel bad for them.
It means you are a normal human being.

>>2357350
that's why when your gorilla is feeling sad about captivity you need to make sure your gorilla understands

bad human harm gorilla, gorilla stay here, friend human keep gorilla safe

>>2357356
you should watch some koko stuff, shes the most well documented

PREPARE TO FEEL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs0fy0Rs8PM

>>2357367
>>2357367
>PREPARE TO FEEL
why would you over hype this?

What about that one orangutan that Williams was "friends" with? She "loved" him but idk what to buy into.

>>2357380
It was Koko.

>>2357294
I think your thinking of him being credited for asking a self aware question. I think he asked what color he was. Pretty sure other animals have asked questions.

Most animals have self awareness, especially mammals and birds. It's only when you get down to invertebrates that you see a fading in consciousness and feeling. All vertebrates can think to some degree, and more complex ones are aware of themselves and their surroundings.

>>2357353
Michael maybe?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oh1uhrdc6w
at about 33:15-34:10

>>2357290
Gorillas are smart enough to identify the words they're using and communicate with them. Even less intelligent animals like dogs can learn to associate words with their meanings. Gorillas don't tend to be capable of correct syntax though, they usually sign word salad with a bunch of words that are related to the situation, or stuff they want (such as food), or just nonsense. Also, I'm not totally sure how much of for example Koko's signing is about her intelligence and how much of it is her handler reading into things and anthropomorphising her. The chat transcripts with Koko kinda make me wonder about that.

>Chat moderator: Welcome, Dr. Patterson and Koko, we're so happy you're here! Is Koko aware that she's chatting with thousands of people?
>Koko: Good hear.
>Dr Patterson: Koko is aware.
>Chat moderator: I'll start taking questions from the audience now. MInyKitty asks, Koko are you going to have a baby in the future?
>Koko: Pink
>Dr Patterson: Koko was commenting on the color of my shirt. We had an earlier discussion about colors today.
>Koko: Koko—love eat.
>Chat moderator: In case you're curious, here's how Koko is able to participate in this chat: Dr. Patterson is signing the questions from the online audience to Koko and a typist is entering for her. Rulucky asks: Do you like to chat with other people?
>Koko: fine nipple
>Dr Patterson: Nipple rhymes with people, she doesn't sign people per se, she was trying to do a "sounds like..."

>>2357498
Kek what a retard
Didn't Koko once lie about breaking a sink by blaming her kitten?
Lying is pretty advanced, isn't it?

>>2357501
Yeah man koko told me she had a ferrari once, that bitch can't drive

>>2357501
I guess so, if that's what happened. But was it Dr Patterson who claimed that or someone else? I don't trust her to be a completely non-biased source.

>Dr Patterson: Koko is going to the mirror with my brush to brush her hair. She's purring. She's happy. Looking in the mirror and brushing her hair makes her happy.
>Koko: Toilet.
>Dr Patterson: Honey? What? How about another question? What's your favorite color?
>Koko: Lips, fake hair.
>Dr Patterson: Oh, you're being funny!
>Koko: Polite nipple. Polite.
>Dr Patterson: Nipple means people. That's right.
>Koko: Gum, candy.
>Dr Patterson: That's your favorite food!
>Koko: Sip, sip, sip, sip, sip!
>Dr Patterson: Koko loves a special drink, and it will be in your Christmas catalog. Koko's special drink. She's is kissing the picture.

If Koko answers wrong to a question, Patterson seems to take it as a sign of lying or joking, instead of considering the possibility of lack of intelligence/understanding.

>Dr Patterson: Koko? Do YOU have any questions for the people?
>Koko: No!
>Dr. Penny Patterson: Do you like people?
>Koko: Nipple.
>Dr. Penny Patterson: Yes, people. She's going to reach under my shirt! Oh, my!
>Koko: (pinching)
>Dr. Penny Patterson: That was a pinch, Koko!

Her insistence that "nipple means people" seems strange too, especially when she only seems to say so when talking to the public but not in more private discussions.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4280961.stm

Do gorillas think humans are hot?

>>2357506
>>Koko: Nipple.
>>Dr. Penny Patterson: Yes, people. She's going to reach under my shirt! Oh, my!
>>Koko: (pinching)
>>Dr. Penny Patterson: That was a pinch, Koko!
YOU JUST KNOW

>>2357527
after looking up a few trans scripts it doesn't seem like gorillas think much out side of "food. food. nipple. food"

>>2357528
gross desu!

>>2357367
How does she even know he's dead?

>>2358503
Gorillas can predict the future, it is a known fact.

>>2357365
It means he's a fucking pussy and wants them all dead in the wild

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>>2357498
>>2357506
Damn my fucking dog is smarter than this dumb chimp. And this is the posterchild for interspecies communication? Lmao.

We should be trying to speak with these fuckers instead.

>>2359198
We have tried talking with cetaceans. They're interested in sex too.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/08/the-dolphin-who-loved-me
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Howe_Lovatt

>>2357423
>All vertebrates can think to some degree
nigga most fish are too dumb to feel pain

>>2359279
[citation needed]

>>2359389
Shhh, let him retain the cognitive dissonance so he can trick himself into thinking everything with a notochord is just a squirming vegetable for him to consume. Eventually he'll grow out of it on his own.

>>2357528
>https://pubpages.unh.edu/~jel/kokotranscript.html
>LiveKOKO: koko loves that nipple drink
lol

>>2359228
That doesn't mean it's the only thing they could tell us though? I just don't see how an animal with a brain that advanced wouldn't have something profound to say.

orangutan master race

>>2359389
not him but the idea that fish don't feel pain isn't new to science or anything. There's a significant faction that believes nothing lower than a mammal or bird can feel pain.

Once scientific article on the subject out of thousands:
"Fish do not feel pain and its implications for understanding phenomenal consciousness"
by Brian Key, 2015.

couldn't post a link for some reason.
if you want heavier reading Dr. John Rose has made an entire career out of pointing out why fish can't feel pain.

even Dr. Temple Grandin has on a couple occasions voiced the view that fish can't feel pain.

If you were a bit smarter you could google this stuff on your own. Wikipedia has a whole article on the subject.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_in_fish

>>2360729
I find it odd that fish can't feel pain but can be stressed to the point that it compromises their health.

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We should invent a form of sign language for these guys.

>>2357290
>gorillabro
I think you mean gorillagurl. Pretty sure all the linguistic apes are signergurls.

http://www.theonion.com/video/scientists-successfully-teach-gorilla-it-will-die--17165

The 100% real news site The Onion pretty well covered this

>>2360767
>http://www.theonion.com/video/scientists-successfully-teach-gorilla-it-will-die--17165
lol

>>2360729
Pain is very useful for biological survival. I would find it odd if fish could not feel pain.

>>2360743
do you find it weird that metal can't feel pain but can be stressed to the point where it compromises its integrity?
>>2360777
That's nociception, not pain.
Pain is a mental state and most biologists agree that fish don't have mental states.

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>>2360767
They were too concerned with whether they could, they never considered whether they should.

>>2360815
>metal can't feel pain but blah blah blah...

Metal doesn't have a metabolism, nor the requirement to consume and transform energy from one state to another to survive, as do living creatures.

>>2360826
the point is that the word "stress" has at least 2 distinct meanings, and the anon is assuming 1 is meant when it's actually the 2nd. We talk about fish being "stressed" specifically to avoid the topic of how they feel. They don't FEEL stressed, they ARE stressed.

hopefully you're just too drunk to catch that, otherwise you've got bigger problems than anthropomorphizing fish.

I got pretty excited about gorilla sign language but reading the Koko transcript was pretty heart breaking. The fucking thing didn't understand shit all it knew was how to demand treats. Disappointing.

>>2358503
her trainer probably told her

>>2357290
>Does something learns a language, does it understand it?
How often do you answer yourself?

>>2357423
Nope only a few creatures have self awareness, mammals and birds can thinky thinky everything else is dumb as shit.

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>>2359198
I was entirely too old when I realized that Orca's have eyes. I thought the white spots on either side of their head were their eyes for...too long. Just too god damn long.

>>2360760
You think elephants give good BJs? I mean not with their trunks, but with their actual mouths. They kinda look like the botched fake vagina they give to fags.

>>2362600
When it comes to you, clearly the answer is no.

>people credit Koko again
jesus fucking christ people, in what age do you live

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>>2362640

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>>2360824
And they didn't take any responsibility.
For it.

>>2357290
idk you tell me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQCOHUXmEZg