Do wolves/canines have emotions? It almost looks like they have

Dogs have the intelligence of a 2 year old, no one has done definitive tests on coyotes or wolves but it's estimated both are as smart or possibly smarter based on brain size, brain scans, and behavioral observations. At 2, attachment and emotional distress at loss are typically displayed. On top of that all canines, being social animals, display attachment and distress at loss. Oxytocin and other hormones associated with positive emotions are released when canines see or smell other canines or humans they consider are apart of their pack. Canines display periods of depression following stimulus that leads to depression in humans, and administration of anti-depressants is highly effective.

So yes, you're pretty much a fucking monster that kills the equivalent of a 2 year old child and left their family of other 2 year old children to grieve their loss, never really understand what happened or why but just knowing that the family member they loved and had a bonded with is gone.

>>2286970
>It almost looks like they have some bits of actual intelligence now and then when I look at some pictures like this.

>instinctive reactions evolve
>millions of years later consciousness of instinctive reactions evolves.
>what does consciousness of instinctive reactions look like?
>it looks exactly the same as the instinctive reaction
>then how do we tell the two apart?
>WE CAN'T, ALL ANIMALS ARE CONSCIOUS AND HAVE EMOTIONS LOOK AT THE EXPRESSION ON THIS ZOOPLANKTON'S LITTLE FACE!

/an/ isn't intelligent enough to answer this question. It never has been and it probably never will be.

>>2286979
>At 2, attachment and emotional distress at loss are typically displayed. On top of that all canines, being social animals, display attachment and distress at loss. Oxytocin and other hormones associated with positive emotions are released when canines see or smell other canines or humans they consider are apart of their pack. Canines display periods of depression following stimulus that leads to depression in humans, and administration of anti-depressants is highly effective
for example these are all instinctive reactions that don't require conscious awareness of an emotion to happen.

anon isn't smart enough to understand that none of these things demonstrates conscious emotions in canines. Because he can't tell the difference between reaction to stimulus and awareness of that same reaction.

>>2287025
>>2287026

Consciousness isn't needed for emotion. Human don't gain basic self awareness until the age of 5 and don't finish developing the finer points such as social self awareness until 12 or 13, none the less they are considered to have emotions.

there is literally no reason to believe emotions are unique to humans

In fact common sense and all evidence points to the contrary

Fear joy anger etc. are not the result of a conscious mind but in fact predate it by quite a bit

>>2287028
>Human don't gain basic self awareness until the age of 5

>Humans begin to show self-recognition in the mirror test when they are about 18 months old, or in what psychoanalysts call the "mirror stage".[19][20]

>>2287028
also friendly reminder:
while most humans pass the mirror test before age 2,
no dog has ever passed it. Or ever will.

>>2286979
One small point to knit-pick.

Most canines are not all that social. Coyotes for example, despite being closely related to dogs and wolves, usually only form casual attachments and never really form a stable pack.

>>2287050

To be fair though, it's anthropomorphizing dogs to assume they would recognize themselves by sight just because humans do. Canines' primary sense is smell. Dogs (seem) to be able to distinguish their own urine, which I'm pretty sure I could not if i were being tested by highly intelligent dog-like aliens.

>>2286970

Final thought; I hate coyotes. Until we think of a better method for controlling their population growth, and keep them away from human civilization, then unfortunately, somebody needs to shoot them. Just like wars in the Middle East and Africa :)

>>2287050
>let's run some tests on these doges to determine consciences
>what kinda tests??
>huuuuuuuurrrrrr les giev it testds we desighned 4 humems! :DDDDDDDD
seems legit.

>>2287089
>Coyotes for example, despite being closely related to dogs and wolves, usually only form casual attachments
All that yipping and yapping you hear coyotes do is social behavior, anon

Plus, they are highly socially adaptable. They don't usually form as close-knit packs as wolves do, but depending on what the environment demands of them they can live alone, in pairs, or goupings of related or unrelated animals.

And generally speaking they are also "mate for life" animals.

Just because their social structure isn't the same as wolves' social structure doesn't mean they are not highly social animals.

>Until we think of a better method for controlling their population growth
Actually "culling" programs have been proven to be ineffective at controlling or reducing coyote populations

>keep them away from human civilization
Not necessary. As long as people aren't dumb fucks, they're harmless.

>>2287050
The mirror test seems pretty biased towards animals who rely primarily on vision. I would put more stock in its results if some kind of scent-based version was created.

>>2287141
We do know that dogs recognize their own scent, because they largely ignore it.

Trick is, since we don't really know what kind of information dogs are getting from urine scenting, we don't know how we can mark it to get dogs to notice something different that we could identify by their actions.

>>2286979
That's alright. I am perfectly fine with abortions for various reasons up to a year or two.

I still don't believe those coyote beasts feel. If so, they deserve it because I am playing no more to my own terms than theirs.

>>2287033
The bigger waste of space you are, the more you need to validate yourself by attributing special magical traits to whatever club you belong to. I can't wait for the shitstorm that will happen after someone develops strong AI or perfect brain emulation and 'human being' gets demoted to a demographic category.

I grew up with a wolf hybrid for sixteen years and then had one, two, then three dogs for around ten years. I've frequented dog parks and walked into people's houses to fix their dogs' behavioral issues (and been paid for a number of successes).

Dogs respect a pack structure. The way they interpret this structure varies by breed. Northern dogs are a lot more independent and require a stronger owner, bullheaded dogs like curs and pits require more confidence in physical interactions, more classically domestic breeds like labs and goldens benefit most from stable family structure.

That being said, all breeds require all of traits to an extent but do better with different focuses.

THAT being said, once you have a healthy dog and you reach the point where you can predict how they'll react to certain interactions or other dogs, you can see them express anxiety, uncertainty, excitement, frustration, happiness (dogs can laugh there's at least one study on it) and I'm sure others not currently coming to mind.

They'll also express warnings to other dogs when the boundaries they've been taught by the pack structure you choose to utilize are threatened or pushed by a dog outside that pack. They have that short communication then reach a form of comprise and proceed from there, and if they're not sure what to do they'll request a human gets involved.
The overarching point I'm making here is that they're capable of understand infinitesimal boundaries and interactions and making decisions based on those. Once boundaries are established they become relaxed enough to express a wide range of emotions. I wouldn't say it's as wide as a human's (because many human emotion words rely on how we interpret situations and they simply interpret things differently than we do) but if you look at any emotion wheel I've seen they express every emotion in the central circle and a spattering of others from the rest.

Good day, fellows.

>>2286970
They have emotions but they don't have the same range as humans.
Believing that they are mindless is sure convenient for your guilt or lack of but doesn't make facts.

Self recognition with a mirror also doesn't make or break consciousness.

>>2287026
>directly comparing emotions to self awareness

Jesus fucking christ this board

>>2287313
so are you protecting livestock/pets/children or are you a serial killer in training?

File: ein hamming it up for his fans.gif (2MB, 294x210px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 294x210px

Related topic: Do dogs smile? It seems like, when a dog is "happy," it curls the corners of its mouth up or opens its mouth in a way that resembles a human smile, and when a dog is "sad" or "worried," its mouth seems to dip down and give a kind of sullen expression. Am I anthropomorphizing here, or is this an actual thing?

>>2288426
Dogs learned it back when we thought of them like
these dogeating fucks.

>>2287313
>>2288406
>>2287089

Dogs today are more human than yesterday.

>>2288426
I'm not totally sure, but I think they are mimicking a smile. It's more obvious with some dogs that actually show their front teeth when they get excited. It looks like a snarl but it has the complete opposite meaning.

I'm curious about whether dogs can understand the concept of guilt. There are videos like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkEb64gcbLs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8ISzf2pryI

Dogs that have done something naughty walk hesitantly, avoid looking their owner in the eye, and some of them show a grin in an attempt to appease their owner. I'm wondering what's the trigger that causes this behavior. Do these dogs have enough intelligence to understand that they've done something bad? Are they actually feeling guilt? Or have the dogs already forgotten what they've done, but they see the end results (for example a pee puddle on the floor, or a torn-up trashbag) and they associate a sight like that with punishments? Or is it that the facial expressions and the vocal tone of the owner seem threatening, and the dogs act submissive in response to that? Basically, can dogs remember and understand their past actions, or are they just responding to each situation as it comes without thinking about how they got there?

Also, there was this thread where people talked about comforting a dog after accidentally stepping on its tail. Anons were wondering whether the dog can understand it was an accident and the owner felt bad about it. How do dogs interpret a situation like that? Can they understand the idea of a human feeling guilt?

>>2288996
>Do these dogs have enough intelligence to understand that they've done something bad?
No.
>Are they actually feeling guilt?
No.
>Or have the dogs already forgotten what they've done, but they see the end results (for example a pee puddle on the floor, or a torn-up trashbag) and they associate a sight like that with punishments?
No.
>Or is it that the facial expressions and the vocal tone of the owner seem threatening, and the dogs act submissive in response to that?
Ring a ding ding, a winrar is you.

There's been studies done on this, people leaving their pets alone for a little while with something on a table. When they came back, half were told their dogs had eaten it, half were told the dog hadn't. Regardless of whether the dog had actually done it or no, dogs reacted to their owner's body language, including acting guilty when not having done anything wrong (and the owner had been told the dog had fucked up), or greeting their owner happily even if they had fucked up (and the owner having been told the dog was a good boy).

>>2286979
Domestic dogs (and cats for that matter) are basically developmentally stunted versions of their ancestors, selectively bred and culled over thousands of years to retain puppy traits. Seeing as intelligence is a beneficial survival trait wolves and coyotes are likely far more intelligent than pet dogs, whose survival depends on more heavily on being cute and submissive.

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-01/moscows-stray-dogs-evolving-greater-intelligence-wolf-characteristics-and-mastery-subway

>>2289091
Bullshit, I woke up this morning and my dog wouldn't go anywhere near me, turns out he'd torn apart one of my watches. I didn't know until like fifteen minutes later and no one else was in the house.

Without personifying animals I think they're pretty smart and stuff. My dog sure does seem extremely intelligent and understanding with a lot of stuff.

I take notes on some of the things she does. I feel like Darwin.