Why have "crate training" fags invented all these BS

I almost forgot the best one:

>it's their safe space

Then why are you locking the door?

>>2228047
your parents never wanted to buy a dog but you whined like a bitch non-stop. now they exist with a living burdan they dont love for your sake. you are the selfish one here who just wanted to own something that unfortunately has self concept. save your pennies and put it down or take it to a shelter where it may be loved properly as what it is.

>>2228047
>>2228048

You have no idea how uneducated you sound. This isn't some movement started by /an/.

You're basically accusing the entire animal and veterinary professional community idiots. You, you're little lonesome self on some backwater image board of 4chan, is demanding answers from millions of licensed and certified veterinarians and animal trainers. You're insisting you and your highschool diploma know more than them, with their 8 years of college majoring in the care of animals.

Think that over.

>>2228051
otherwise deal with it being in a crate you have your ownership and they have their peace. it is wrong, but you forsook its happiness before it knew your family.

>>2228053
>appeal to authority

Counter what I said or shut up. You're locking a dog in a cage for hours on end for your own convenience. The pet industry sugar-coating it for you doesn't change that fact.

>>2228053
And see what I mean about defensiveness? They know deep down it's wrong, so they get mad as fuck when someone calls it a cage or points out what's actually going on.

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>>2228047

>>2228060
No, everyone wants to own a dog, when most people shouldn't. So they've made up BS to defend anyone owning one.

>>2228047
I used to be against putting a dog into a crate and it's only been fairly recently that I've come to accept it as a really good way to go about housebreaking. Frankly if you don't have the time to watch over a puppy it does keep them from eating shit off the floor in the 15 seconds you look away and have something important to deal with.

That doesn't mean you can lock a dog up for basically 24 hours out of the day and only letting them out for pee/poop/eat. They need to get out and have exercise and other stimulation and it's your duty as their owner to ensure they're getting enough, especially if you expect them to settle down and go to sleep when you kennel them.

So yes, it is completely for my convenience and the dog's safety. And it does simulate a natural wolf den, but natural wolf dens are crevices in between rocks and shit. They're nowhere near as comfortable as a kennel with a good dog bed and a water bowl screwed to the metal cage door.

Puppies have a relentless drive to chew and eat everything and everything and it helps you expose them to things they're aloud to chew.

As far as hiring someone to take care of it, how the fuck do you expect people to even spend that money? It's reasonable to suggest they get some grazing time outside, but hiring a dog caretaker?

This is a bait thread, I know that. There are probably only three anons tops who go on here with their anti-crating rants. Most proper dog owners I know realize crating is good. Just because it looks like a cage doesn't mean it acts like one.

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>>2228056
>Counter what I said or shut up.

I did. I pointed out how many educated professionals (that aren't self-righteous, over-emotional hippies) disagree with you. That's really all there is to say. I'm not going to spend all day collecting research papers (that you won't read anyway because reading is hard) just to squabble over something you damn well should know if you're going to frequent a forum about animals..

If you don't know by now, you will never learn. When it comes to people like that, it's better to just make fun of them. That's life.

>>2228047
Don't you know? Metal cages exist in nature and stuff. Pssh. You don't know what you're talking about. Ancient man obviously had the same tech when they domesticated the dog, right??

Cages are okay in moderation.

>>2228070
>Just because it looks like a cage doesn't mean it acts like one.

How can cratefags even live with this level of cognitive dissonance?

>>2228069
It doesn't "simulate a natural wolf den" because there aren't locks on wolf dens. At least you admit that the crate is because you can't take care of your dog.

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>>2228073

Dogs have only been domesticated for (est.) 30,000 years. We had the tech to build metal cages around 7,000BC. There have been remains of stone and wood cages found in ruins dating back to 70,000BC.

Just sayin.

Anyway, most people that are against crate training have probably never tried it (since they're against it, and all). Being against it is like being against cars because humans were never meant to ride in them. Once you crate train a dog, you will never own another puppy without a crate. You will also see that dogs don't mind them.

Side note, baby gates are also invaluable for puppies. Dunno how I ever raised a dog without baby gates.

>>2228072
Nah, all you said was "some people very invested in others owning pets told me it was OK so it's OK".

Did you know crating is only "normal" in the US? And only in the last ten years or so? It's an excuse for people to own larger dogs who probably shouldn't.

>>2228073

Hippy, please. Who cares about whether it's natural or whether they had it in the past? Fridges, shoes, and umbrellas aren't natural either. Technology changes as time goes by. A few hundred years ago it was fine to marry a 13 year old and wash your teeth with pee. Now we know better.

>>2228063
I dont even own a faggot ass dog, just pointing out your obnoxious, smug attitude.

>>2228085
>dogs don't mind them

Lol cratefags are hilarious. Let me guess, the dog "just goes to sleep" in its crate so it must not mind it right?

What the fuck else are you going to do in a little cage? This is akin to saying a prisoner "doesn't mind" solitary confinement because he sleeps all day.

>>2228088
What's "smug" about it? Do you really believe everyone has the right to own any animal just because they can?

>>2228086
>And only in the last ten years or so?

Times change. Technology improves. Understanding advances. New research methods bring new light to mysterious topics.

10 years ago, your phone couldn't run Angry Birds. Do you call your phone bullshit because people learned to make it better? How about civil rights, gay marriage, cancer treatments, and safer cars?

Fighting against advancement is reserved exclusively for religious nutjobs. Don't be that guy.

>>2228086

A lot of countries have populations which are ultra crap about pets. In many Euro and Asian countries it's considered okay to keep dogs tied to outside all day and it's considered abusive to have an inside cat.

What does the ten year thing have to do with anything? It just means more dog owners are learning not to be trash. Believe it or not, but us /an/-type owners who actually care about their pets are a minority. You're lucky if most people even take their dogs to a vet once a year, never mind their birds or reptiles. Five years ago Fancy Feast and IAMS were considered acceptable food. Now every dog food commercial brags about being natural or grain free because people learned that dog food is full of horrible garbage.

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>>2228087
>A few hundred years ago it was fine wash your teeth with pee. Now we know better.

Wait, we aren't doing that anymore? God dammit. I wish there was a newsletter I could subscribe to for this stuff.

>>2228093
>advancement

We've had cages forever idiot. It's only recently it has become en vogue, and only in one country with a bunch of entitled retards making excuses for themselves. What a joke.

>>2228092
Your OP is screaming obnoxious, smug asshole.

>"You guys are dumb"
>"My opinion is right"
>providing no evidence to backup your claim

Kill yourself you poofter

>>2228096
Inside cat is abuse. Though realistically cats should not be owned at all except for mousers and stuff on farms. They're a pest, world would be better off if they were eradicated and made illegal.

>>2228072

not that guy but

>Other people did research that's my argument!!

you're retardofriendo.

cratefags are literally donald trump supporters / /pol/acks, they KNOW they are in the wrong, they KNOW their entire value system is based on fear and submission and torturing others because of their own insecurities, and they create a fake sense of overwhelming majority to scare others into submission as well.

>>2228104
>They're a pest, world would be better off if they were eradicated and made illegal.
you're thinking of families with more than 2 children.

>>2228083
There aren't locks of wolf dens, but usually some wolves stay back to protect the puppies. A lock is much better than having to pick a puppy up with your mouth and put it back into the den. Not only that but a puppy doesn't even understand the concept of a "lock" The only thing it knows is that it's movement is being restricted. They also do leave their den past a certain age and you need to ensure they get enough exercise.

I know this is bait and all, but I do enjoy the thought exercise. But if by "you can't take care of your dog" means "I can't dedicated my entire existence to keep a puppy out of trouble by chasing it all over the place" then yes, you are correct.

>>2228106
>if i scream /pol/ loud enough i'll win the argument!

Could you be more of a cock sucker?

Cratefags are also the same kind of people who espouse "positive only" snake oil training. CAN'T HURT MYH DOG CUZ OF MUH FEEFEES BUT IM GUNNA KEEP IT LOCKED IN A BOX FOR 12 HOURS.

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>>2228099
>We've had cages forever idiot.

You are terrible at debate. I mean, you are seriously so bad, that I am leaving the thread after this because you aren't making any sense and my arm is tired from facepalming.

This post is a great example. I was talking about utilizing enclosures in dog training, and you argue back about how long we've had cages. What the fuck is that?

God dammit, you are so stupid. And I am not just trying to be mean. You are genuinely stupid. It is rare that I meet someone so stupid - and I work for the government. That is impressive. You are so stupid is making me sad and lose faith in humanity with every post. This is thread is more depressing than any you-feel-you-lose thread I've seen. I do not want to believe that there are people out there as dumb as you. It's just too demotivating.

>>2228110
not an argument

>>2228109
It isn't bait. There is no reason to lock your dog in a cage besides convenience and incompetence.

>>2228112
So you wrote a bunch of paragraphs calling me stupid and not addressing anything I said and I'm the one "bad at debate".

>>2228104

And I bet you think dogs are only useful if they work too?

>>2228115
What's wrong with doing something dor convenience?

>>2228115
On the basis of convenience I agree with you. Incompetence not so much. Now if you're a retard that keeps your dog locked up for almost 24 hours a day without ensure the dog gets enough mental stimulation, then yes that's incompetence. That's an incorrect use of the tool which doesn't negate it's benefits.

>40 posts
>5 posters.

>>2228117
No. But dogs aren't destructive pests in the same way as cats. Cats are rat-tier.

>>2228109
a wolf den is analogous to your house or apartment, not to a cage in the corner. a puppy absolutely knows the difference between being physically stopped by a member of it's family and being physically stopped by the wires of a cage

>>2228121

>21st century
>still hating rats

>>2228118
Cratefags never admit this is why they cage dogs. They make up elaborate excuses about how it's good for them.

>>2228121
Puppies are extremely destructive if you don't manage them properly. Once you get past the puppy phase you're solid. At least dogs provide a deterrent for burglars though.

>>2228106
100% this
abuse breeds abuse.
Stop the cycle of fear.

>>2228126
What are you talking about? I'm freely admitting that I do it out of convenience and explaining my justification. How is that elaborate excuses?

>>2228126
Yeah it's for my convenience because I have a life outside watching a puppy 24/7, fuck off neet

>>2228127
Cats have fucked up ecosystems and extincted species. And their feral populations are disease-ridden filth. They really shouldn't be legal pets - of course it's too late to turn back now.

>>2228126
I completely admit I do it for convinence what are you fucking smoking senpai?

>>2228100
haha 'poofter' haven't heard that since primary school

>>2228130
>>2228131
>>2228136
Yeah, for your convenience, peppered with a bunch of bullshit about how it isn't at all bad for the dog.

Do you anti-crate queers expect people to watch their puppy all day long? Or worse, fence them outside?

>>2228123
>a wolf den is analogous to your house or apartment
No the fuck it's not. It's usually a crevice in between two rocks or a small cove underneath a large rock. They're very small.

Now I never once said it's okay to leave a puppy locked in a kennel all day, and I would also have to say once a puppy has matured enough to allow free reign throughout the house, they don't need to be crated. If you've crate trained them as puppies though they'll go into the crate on their own if they want to crash out and be left undisturbed.

It's a method for house breaking puppies, not an excuse to neglect puppies or dogs.

>>2228139
How is fencing outside worse than caging it up?

>>2228138
Try proving it, and he can get a little sad all he wants, I'm not watching a dog all day long I have a life

>>2228139
dont have a dog if you are going to abuse it, asshole.
I swear to god only you fucking americans are such sociopaths. No wonder you support blonde hitler.

>>2228138
Why don't you tell us what would be better then? If you're so adamantly against crate training explain to us how you house-break puppies? Do you leave them in an Ex-Pen all day? Do you spend your entire day chasing around your puppy pulling your shoes out of it's mouth?

>>2228119
>if you're a retard that keeps your dog locked up for almost 24 hours a day

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding here about how crating works.

Most people stop forcing use of the crate before the dog is a year old. Before then, it's used for housebreaking mainly (I will explain that below) and general safety while you're not there to supervise (making sure they don't start eating golfballs or something because puppies are dumb). Afterwards, it just sits in a corner and is only closed a few times a month at most. The dog can come and go freely.

When a dog is learning to not go in the house, every accident in the house is a set back. They need to understand "Outside is my pee spot" through repetition - like 300-400 times. And every time they go in the house, they will think "Oh, maybe I can go here too". At all costs, you want to minimize that from happening since it directly interrupts the training in a big way. By using a crate while you're asleep or at work, it stops them from going in the house and hurting their training by utilizing their instinct to not piss where they sleep. That's it.
And when you're home, the crate is open.

Using a crate for housebreaking is not just convenience. It significantly speeds up the process since it limits accidents in the house. By months. My last dog was housebroken by 16 weeks old, and only had 4 or 5 accidents after that (usually my fault for forgetting to let him out or such).

My dog is forced into the crate only in unusual circumstances, like when I have company, or when there's a spill that I don't want the dog walking in. Other than that, he sleeps in there on his own and it just wastes space otherwise.

This is normal. This is how people use crates. I don't know where you guys get all these weird ideas from about them being caged all the time. They are 99% a puppy training tool, and abandoned afterwards.

>>2228139
No they want you to pay somebody a salary to watch your dog.

>>2228130
>>2228131
>>2228136
>who gives a fuck about caging up an intelligent, energetic animal all day? As long as my sofa is looking good.

>>2228145
>Using a crate for housebreaking is not just convenience. It significantly speeds up the process since it limits accidents in the house.

Something which helps speed up the process is a convenience.

Honestly people who don't own land or don't have families shouldn't own larger or athletic dogs.

Sorry, that's just the truth.

>>2228147
>puppies
>intelligent
Yeah, no

I swear these anti-crate loons have never visited a website on dog training or behavior. The information is out there. It has nothing to do with /an/. Crate training is not only endorsed, but recommended, by the majority of dog trainers and veterinarians.

Google is not difficult. You just want to fight about something like children.

>>2228147
this.
How can people be such sociopaths that they would rather make a creature suffer than just interact with it a few times each hour just so that their fucking possesions look slightly more aesthetically pleasing?

>>2228152
>sociopathic behavior is the norm therefore everyone should practice it
I hope you follow your motherfucking fuhrer off a cliff you piece of shit hivemind robotic motherfucker

>>2228153
You're full of shit, it's way more than a few times an hour and my dog as much as I love him isn't worth the hundreds of thousands of potential dollars he could destroy

>>2228152
The one thing about crate training is that it's widely accepted as the most effective method of house breaking from all the different training methods, from "positive rainbow unicorn only" training to balanced trainers to protection dog trainers. This is probably the one thing I wouldn't think would cause a shit flinging match on /an/, but this is obviously bait as no alternative has been proposed.

>>2228152
>people in the pet industry recommend everyone can own a dog

Wow, shocking.

>>2228156
Not only that, but if he eats part of your couch it could kill him.

>>2228148
>Using a crate for housebreaking is not just convenience

>Something which helps speed up the process is a convenience.

I am guessing this is the same person that really sucks at debating and following a dialogue. I mean, you quoted it. Right there. He basically said "it's a convenience and this as well" and you said "no, it's a convenience" in response. You even quoted it. Just, wow.

>>2228157
If it was only used for housebreaking it might be OK. Thing is now Americans think it is perfectly normal to lock their dogs in little cages whenever they want and for however long they want.

>>2228156
>I love my dog
>but I'd kill em if he damages my stuff
try again you piece or shit

>>2228163
Never said I'd kill him, I keep him in his crate so I don't have to :^)

>>2228161
>Americans think it is perfectly normal to lock their dogs in little cages whenever they want

THIS, THIS right here is absolutely 100% unsubstantiated bullshit, and it's the root of the entire anti-crate movement. We have facts and papers showing crates are good. You have speculation that we're all just locking our animals in cages for 24 hours a day. There has never been any sort of evidence at all. I googled just now. There is nothing. It's hippy propaganda.

>>2228166
Apparently to these fags if you're not fucking your dogs ass 24/7 you're abusing it

Crating little puppies isn't that different from what most people already do, like keep them in a kitchen or laundry room.

Crating older dogs is pretty gay and lame though.

>>2228166
>crates are good

No, they're convenient for the owner. Please stop conflating the two.

And there's plenty of evidence. Read any forum on owning dogs - many people crate them all day at work and at night.

Do these people so against crates have no experience with puppies or something? Who the fuck has time and patience to watch an autistic little shit all day long?

>>2228170

because something can't be good AND convenient. it would probably form a massive black hole and kill us all.

The idiots are out in force today.

>don't crate your puppy
>spend every waking minute of your time with it
>you just created a dog with a massive dependency complex who will never be okay being alone

no thanks

>>2228171
>Do these people so against crates have no experience with puppies or something?

It's really, really obvious they have never crate trained a puppy, at minimum. They have some weird ideas. Like how a 1st grader thinks you get pregnant from kissing.

>>2228145
>Most people stop forcing use of the crate before the dog is a year old.
that's some extremely wishful thinking

>>2228173
But it isn't good, it's only convenient. You can't say that an ideal situation would have the puppy locked in a cage.

>>2228180
stop anthropomorphizing you weird furry faggot, I heard of dog brothels in Europe but I never knew the extent of your depravity

fucking sick fuck, no wonder you're left wing

>>2228175

I read that as my clingy 8 month old dog sits next to me on the couch whimpering and whining because I'm not petting him. He was never crate trained passed 14 weeks because he didn't need any help with housebreaking (amazing dog, already knew to go only outside at 8 weeks).

Now, his sister is sleeping 15 feet away by the garage door so she can see when people come and go from the house. She was crate trained to 7 months because she was really difficult. Really independent. That's how I like them.

>cratefags pretending they only cage up little puppies for a few hours at a time

Please stop this denial cratefags. People cage their dogs all day.

>>2228179
>that's some extremely wishful thinking

Again, you know nothing of what you're talking about. People trash crates once the dog stops pissing on the rug and eating panties. Look on Craigslist or Varagesale or something. There is always dozens of crates for sale.

>>2228182
>le left wing

Please go back to /pol/ and stop mouth-breathing all over decent boards.

>>2228182
>having empathy is degenerate
john titor needs to go back in time again and prevent /pol/ from happening

>>2228187
you're the one posting irrelevant shit about Trump clearly for bait purposes

>>2228189
>sociopathy
>not completely related to your fetish for being abused
try again bootlicker

>>2228188
Are you 12 years old or something? You need to go to school instead of watching a puppy all day

>>2228186
>once the dog stops pissing on the floor and eating panties

The thing is a dog isn't going to stop messing with shit in some tiny apartment while the owners at work all day until they're pretty old. So people will be caging their dog for a while.

>>2228192
Dont have a dog if you cant take care of it. How is this a hard concept to grasp?

>>2228193
This isn't true, after the puppy stage they calm down and are much easier to discipline and train what not to do, not to mention the drive to bite everything disappears once they are done teething and "exploring"

As long as you make sure they get enough stimulation they typically won't act out

>>2228188

You don't actually have empathy, though. What you're doing is the same as never letting a child watch an 'R'-rated movie because you think you're protecting them somehow.

But you're not protecting dogs. You THINK you are. The same as parents THINK exposing children to adult situations is evil. In reality, the kids learn there's nothing novel about cussing and tits, and the puppy is perfectly happy in their safe spot. But you would never believe that. No, you're a righteous crusader! You must stop crates. And gays. And muslims. And other stuff you can't be bothered to read about. Because reasons.

You haven't researched the topic you've been arging about in this whole thread.

>99 posts
>6 posters

>>2228195
I crate my puppy and spend a minimum of 4 hours a day with it, usually more, I just have other shit to do because I'm not living with my parents

It's either having food and having the attention and care I can afford to give him or being euthanized in a shelter, it's obvious which is better

>>2228196
So what is the "puppy stage" then? A few years at the least?

You paint way too rosy of a picture of what's actually happening here.

In reality it's pretty stupid to get a puppy if you're single and working. There are plenty of adoptable older dogs.

>>2228196
This is why crate training is good because it allows for controlled exposure.

They'll associate outside as pee, with bones and chew etc. etc. and you can prevent them from getting into things so the foundation is at least laid for what is acceptable to do in the house.

You can't correct a puppy until they're much older, so you have to direct them towards what you want them to do.

>>2228193
>a dog isn't going to stop messing with shit in some tiny apartment while the owners at work

When dogs do this, it's mainly cause by their owners punishing them directly. So they think the owner is the problem, not the panties. You either use an e-collar to correct the behavior from a distance where they can't tell you're doing it, or do a sting operation by laying panties all over with bittle apple spray.

>>2228199
The puppy phase lasts almost 2 years, but I think when most people are referring to the puppy stage they're talking about when they're rambunctious little turds that want to run around and chew and bite anything they see.

Cityfags shouldn't even own dogs bigger than chihuahuas. Yet they all feel entitled to one just because.

>>2228199

Puppy stage is coming to a close by the time they're 8 months. Around 10 months, a dog should have a very cohesive and identifiable personality. They stop acting like they're high all the time. Behavior patterns because easily identifiable, they start responding strongly to light discipline, and - most importantly - they begin to show respect to you.

And no, that guy is painting a pretty picture. That is exactly how things go. Once they get their cognitive abilities in full force, it gets MUCH easier and crates get phased out.

>>2228197
No you fucking idiot, stoping someone from seeing an R movie is the same as caging, it's taking away a liberty to give the parent of that child the conveniance of not explaining shit. Caging is to give dog owners conveniance.
Both things are abuse.
I'm not a sjw, I just value freedom, liberty, and I have empathy for others.

>>2228205
Would you rather they died in a shelter? There's already 20 dogs per 1 house at the least

>people ITT actually implying crates are only ever used for house training little puppies

Please stop. You know this is blatantly false.

>>2228208
>implying irresponsible cityfags are only adopting shelter dogs

>>2228210
they're the ones adopting most of them because rural places don't even have shelters

>>2228207
I see you've never had puppies OR kids.

Let me tell you, gee golly, my favorite thing in the world is when people without kids tell me how to raise my own. Like when other people tell me how to raise my dogs even though they only have a goldfish.

You see this all the time. Man, you don't know shit. Raise a few puppies, raise a few kids, then come talk to me. Because damn, you have no idea how much is involved in being a real adult. Walking your parent's dog and babysitting for your neighbor doesn't count.

>>2228209
>>people ITT actually implying crates are only ever used for house training little puppies
>
>Please stop. You know this is blatantly false.

You are acting like a new poster, yet the unique poster count in the catalog didn't change. Samefag.

is this an american thing?, I've never seen anyone do it here.

>>2228215
Yeah, it actually is.

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>>2228207
>preventing kids from seeing R movies is abuse
>taking away liberties and shit

ok. if this is actually what you think youre retarded. kids are so god damn impressionable you think its a good idea to let them do whatever? kids are fuckin stupid. puppies are fuckin stupid. thats why their "liberties" are taken until they are older. idiot.

>>2228215
Americans typically pioneer the best of everything, so yeah, in a few years or a decade if you're still allowed to have dogs in the caliphate of Europe you'll be aping us again

>>2228212
>im a selfish asshole and treat my children and pets like ass and everyone should do the same cause boo hoo my life is so hard im such a victim I deserve to be mean to them and cause them to be mean to their kids and pets as well
end your life

>>2228215
same, never even heard of this and i know a lot of dog owners who live in apartments

>>2228212
>HURR don't tell me how to raise MY kids

Only shit parents ever have to say this.

>>2228220
everything stinks like shit in europe so they probably don't notice the dog shit and piss in their apartment desu

>>2228217
>censorship is good!
>how can intelligent beings know what is good for themselves?!!
>how is there anything in life without a boot to lick?!!
>oh god I feel so small pls give me my daddy trump I need guidance RIGHT NOW

>>2228215
Fabrication of the American pet industry so more lazyfags feel OK buying dogs.

>>2228222
are you upset because you know it's wrong to cage your dog while you go to starbucks with the girlfriends for four hours?

>>2228224
>intelligent beings
it's clear from your retardation that your shitty boomer parents let you lick an electrical outlet because they wanted to just let you do whatever you wanted because telling you what to do violated the NAP or was "FUCKIN FASCIST MAN"

>>2228218
>typically pioneer the best of everything
like cancer, respiratory disease, heart disease and diabetes?

>>2228228
if I wanted to jack off to porn for 4hrs in a row I'm gonna do whatever the fuck I want to and the puppy is going to learn it does shit on my time

>>2228224
you clearly dont understand how kids work at all. i dont even like kids nor have any and i still know it isnt a good idea to let those fuckers do what they want. puppies and kids arent intelligent enough to know what is good for themselves. its so obvious youve never actually taken care of either of these.

also

>implying im going to vote at all
theyre both shit. now shut the fuck up about /pol/ shit. you sound fuckin stupid.

>>2228233
>pls ur so dumb u dont understand anything stop threathening muh pol pls
>pls just leave muh pol alone
kek

How to Potty Train & Crate Train a Puppy OR Dog H…: https://youtu.be/FG-gyJP8op0

If you can't spend 15 minutes watching this OP, then your arguments have no value and you should hitch a ride back to /b/

>>2228047
I always let my dog roam freely around my home, since it's just as much. Since I actually stimulate my dog properly, physically as well as mentally, I've never had him cause any trouble when home alone.

It feels like the whole crate meme is a result of the "pets as furniture" philosophy.

>>2228273
>your dog
>dog
no one crates a fucking dog, it's for puppies

>>2228274
Why should I crate puppies?

Also, the dog in the op pic doesn't look like a puppy to me.

>>2228276
for all the reasons already listed in this thread, I just don't have time to watch the puppy all day long for 8 months

>>2228276
It's possible that dog was a new shelter dog that wasn't properly house broken yet

>>2228111
actually I suspect the "I DOMINATE MY DOG" crowd is probably keener on crating their dog (or putting them in a kennel, leashed outside etc)

either way it's an obvious form of abuse if done for any other reasons than transport, and even then I dont see why it should be necessary.

>>2228284
>either way it's an obvious form of abuse
You people keep saying this without explaining why and how

>>2228286
It's because somehow dogs have a concept of jail and locks. They don't have completely different behavioral patterns than human beings or even primates in general. They're just little furry people that walk on all fours.

Oh yeah and instead of putting your child in a crib or a playpen when they're babies or young toddlers you should let them have free roam over the house too.

>>2228284
>if done for any other reasons than transport
What about at the groomers? There are a ton of reasons I could come up with that you would need to crate a dog. It serves the benefit of you being able to deal with human shit while a crazy puppy isn't afforded the opportunity to get into everything. Not only that but it helps massively with house breaking (both in terms of peeing outside and not destroying furniture).

You need to exercise the puppy and all and try to keep them out as much as possible.

As far as only for transport though, so you're not even supposed to get your dog comfortable with the idea of being in a kennel? That way if you ever have to kennel it, it freaks the fuck out?

>>2228286
>restrict movement to the point of locking the animal in a small space for hours
>HURR WHY IS THIS ABUSE WHERE IS THE PROOFS
you sounds like a retard.
did you know that german guy who imprisoned his daughters (and fucked them) in his cellar for their entire childhood?

they had stockholm syndrome to the point that he once took them out for some stuff, and not only did they not try to run away, but they helped in deceiving everyone in thinking there was nothing wrong with them.

now if that was a dog you would be arguing that keeping a dog locked in your cellar and raping it repeatedly cannot possibly animal abuse, because the animal seems to not mind it.

you are a literal retard

>>2228297
Wow man thanks for proving my theory that all you fucking faggots that criticize good dog owners for everything they do are emotionally unstable.

When the fuck did anybody talk about child molestation in here? You need some serious help.

There's somebody who obviously cares for their dog and isn't locking them in there just for the sake of locking them in there and you start thinking about child molestation and equate kenneling a dog to it.

>>2228253
^
>>2228276
>>2228284
>>2228297
>>2228297

>>2228297
do you need to move all day long cunt? did you know puppies sleep up to 20hrs a day and need it for growth? did you know if you let them exercise too much and keep them overly stimulated it leads to hip and joint problems? simple shit you probably didn't realize hurts their joints are things like walking up stairs and going on a chair or MOVING AROUND TOO MUCH

it's also to stop them from fucking shitting on the floor, do you not fucking sleep? jesus christ

>>2228297
You're probably the same kind of retard that supports unrestricted abortions too.

Kill yourself.

>>2228299
you really are literally retarded, arent you?
read my last paragraph again, if you are indeed able of reading.

I'll even summarize the point again only for retarded you: just because an animal doesnt show extremely obvious signs of distress doesnt mean you're not abusing it.

and confining dogs to a prison cell that small is clearly fucked up, no matter what rationalizations you come up with to help you sleep at night

inb4
>HURR ITS NOT A PRISON CELL ITS A CRATE ITS DIFFERENT BECAUSE IT HAS DIFFERENT NAME

>>2228308
ah, I see. I'm arguing against /pol/ again. I shouldve known, silly me.

Im outa here. Enjoy beating, "dominating" and crating your dogs, /pol/ fags

>>2228309
Seriously get some help.

>147 replies
>22 posters

>>2228311
I just took my pupper for a walk and let her run around a huge open field with my daughter. As we walked I taught her she needs to sit and wait for me to tell her it's okay before we cross intersections because I don't want her to get injured or killed, and if that happens it's my fault because I didn't teach her right. When we came home she had a nice hearty meal and she was poopered out, so I put her in her kennel on her comfortable dog bed so when I go to take a dump I don't have to worry about her getting up and pissing on my bed or the carpet, or ripping apart my socks and other things.

Tell me that I'm abusing my puppy and that I'm locking her in jail and don't take care of my dog.

>>2228053
So locking a dog in a space it can barley move in for 8+ hours a day is acceptable? I guess you won't mind being stuck between two rocks and you can barely roll over and no food or water.

>>2228319
>kennel
You mean cage. If you have to worry about all of that then get rid of your dog. You are not fit to own one if you can't take good enough care and teach it.

>>2228319
Lol. Cratefags get this upset and defensive because they know they're doing wrong by caging animals where they can't walk. Keep rationalizing buddy.

Why can't cratefags even just say the word "cage"?

>>2228324
Because they know what it is and are guilty of animal abuse.

>>2228322
So what do you suggest then oh wise one?

Since you obviously know better than me and have such a great insight into things that you can decide I am abusing my dog, surely you have a better solution, right?

>>2228327
Have a garage, room, or backyard to put it in, or don't get a dog.

>>2228327
Lel just train it!!! Don't forget to watch it all day long and forgo sleep!

>>2228331
Crates only popular in the last ten years in one country in the world. It's not that fucking hard.

>>2228333
Yeah because in the rest of the world the great dog owners just tie then up outside and neglect them

>>2228329
>teaching your puppy to shit in a garage or room

Christ you 3rd worlders are disgusting

>>2228329
So what you're really saying is that you're in favor of restricting it's movements, but because you have some bizarre misconception of how much space a dog needs to settle down and relax I'm an evil animal abuser.

You'll even suggest that I leave it in the backyard. Do you know how many awful fucking dog owners that I have personally witnessed that put their dogs through that? They leave it locked up in the side yard or backyard and never clean up it's own piss and shit in 110 degree weather in the middle of the desert, and you're going to go after me?

Go right ahead because I truthfully don't care, but if you're so dead set on fighting for animal rights why don't you go after actual abusive practices by actual abusive owners? Why don't you go after the people who don't even take the time to interact with a dog by walking it or training it.

No you're going to make a big deal because there happens to be strands of metal rods across a door on a plastic container with two metal rods that lock into the plastic container preventing the sheet of metal rods from opening and letting out a small immature creature that could cause seriously injury to itself within a very short amount of time where my puppy's cushy bed is located.

>>2228331
Not only that, but walking my dog isn't important at all. Even the fact that I am teaching her not to jet out into the street before we cross the street and to have patience doesn't mean I'm training her. All of that is just pepper to disguise my psychopathic abusive ways.

It would be far better to lock a dog in the backyard and never interact with it, let alone take it to the vet to make sure it receives it's vaccinations.

>>2228303
^
>>2228309
>>2228321
>>2228322
>>2228323
>>2228324
>>2228325
>>2228329
>>2228333

>>2228335
>>2228337
It isn't that hard to see the difference between a space a dog can walk in and a space a dog can't move in retards.

>>2228337
>I truthfully don't care
>spends paragraphs being butthurt

Cratefags in extreme denial.

>>2228337
>No you're going to make a big deal because there happens to be strands of metal rods across a door on a plastic container with two metal rods that lock into the plastic container preventing the sheet of metal rods from opening and letting out a small immature creature that could cause seriously injury to itself within a very short amount of time where my puppy's cushy bed is located.

Just say you put your dog in a cage. Just say it. Holy fucking shit.

>>2228359
^
^
^
>>2228360
>>2228363
!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>2228365
So you think it's OK because a Youtuber says it's OK?

>>2228366
Did you watch the video?

>>2228360
So taking my dog for a walk and letting her run around in a field about the size of two football fields daily isn't enough room to walk in? What about the hours a day that I actually do take her out to play tug and fetch with her and to teach her commands?

I look forward to the day where I don't have to keep her in the kennel, but at this point in her life she's very immature and I need to do what I can to protect her from injuring herself and prevent her from going to the bathroom in the house.

Now if you have a mature dog that has been completely housebroken, I don't see why somebody would kennel it unless it's hyper due to inactivity on the owner's part and there I would agree with you that it's pretty bad to do to a dog.

What's so difficult to understand about that?

>>2228372
>protect her from injuring herself

lel. The rationalizations of cratefags.

>still this overly defensive

I thought you didn't care?

>>2228367
^
>>2228374

>>2228363
I'm mainly on here for entertainment. Most of this thread is probably bait, except for the guy that started talking about raping kids, but whether it is or not is irrelevant.

It's a pretty healthy exercise to logically justify your actions, which I have yet to see from "anti-cratefags"

>>2228364
>Just say you put your dog in a cage. Just say it. Holy fucking shit.
Just say you're in favor of letting a dog have free reign when it could be detrimental to it's well being. Just say it. Holy fucking shit.

>>2228367
I'm not wasting my time watching fifteen minutes of a Youtuber giving the same lame excuses as in this thread.

>>2228379
>detrimental to its well-being

How? It's your fault if you have something dangerous in your house or yard.

>>2228380
I'm sorry, what's that?

Bitch bitch, moan moan
I can't except anyone else's views except my own?

File: wolfpupden.jpg (90KB, 860x568px) Image search: [Google]

90KB, 860x568px

>>2228383
Okay so let's say I completely sterilize my entire house to the point where I have nothing. No furniture for it to chew on, no computer cords, absolutely nothing. Just four walls and a roof and some stuff up on high shelves suspended from the ceiling. Even with that in mind, crate training is the most effective method of house breaking.

I think something like a quarter of pets are given up to animal shelters because of house breaking problems. You're going to attack a method and demonize it because you seem to think that a typical wolf den where pups are raised is the size of your average bedroom or garage in a house. There's a training tool which using it properly carries numerous lifelong benefits for a dog that could prevent a lot more dogs from being given up to shelters or outright abandoned and you're going to attack it and owners that use it correctly. You'll say that it's rationalization for abuse, yet you won't acknowledge that if somebody is doing the right thing and giving their dog plenty of exercise and attention in conjunction with training that they are probably better than most dog owners.

Now look at this picture and tell me that looks like the size of your bedroom. Well not your bedroom, but a normal person's bedroom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMuMIcQx9Qc

>>2228383
>>2228388
So now you're ignoring me? How DARE you not listen to my opinion!

>>2228047
I remember when we got our dog we did the whole crate training thing for like a week. and even then we NEVER shut the door. I can understand the logic behind crate training, but what real grinds my gears is those people who use shock collars.

>>2228327
>>2228331

It's not difficult to train a puppy. Maybe you're just stupid. It's not your fault.

File: tumblr_lv52wisQly1qiqcvgo1_250.gif (479KB, 245x138px) Image search: [Google]

479KB, 245x138px

>>2228393
And you! Samefagging fucker!

You think you're sooo sly, don't'cha? Well I'm onto you.

>>2228398
>implying my puppy isn't pretty well house trained
>still not suggesting a better alternative

>>2228398
http://m.humanesociety.org/animals/dogs/tips/crate_training.html

PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!

>>2228400
It's not well trained if you have to worry about it doing those things. Now let your kid drink soda, eat Cheetos, and play on tablet non stop while you lie down and browse 4chan

>>2228380
How did you potty train your puppy anon?

>>2228407
>Now let your kid drink soda, eat Cheetos, and play on tablet non stop while you lie down and browse 4chan
Or maybe I'm supposed to do that since anything other than chasing a puppy all over the house all day constitutes animal abuse and I obviously don't want to be an animal abuser.

>>2228393
No one said the entire house. Put it in kitchen, garage, porch, yard, etc.

You know, somewhere that isn't a little cage where it can't walk.

>>2228416
How long did it take you to potty train your puppy anon?

Why the fuck are people replying to this

If you guys went down the street and saw a guy with a big sign saying I WANT TO ARGUE WITH YOU would you take him up on it

>>2228416
Where fuck does this dog need to walk to? Where the fuck is a dog even going to walk if it's confined to one room.

We already went on a walk and she's beat and needs some rest because she's busy growing.

I crate train my dogs. But in that sense he only goes gets locked into the crate at nightbwhen everyone is asleep or when nobody is home. We keep the door open and he goes in on his own when he wants to sleep in there. I don't see how this is a problem.

>>2228419
I crated my dog but he was a fucking asshole and as thick as anything, so it took me until he was two years old to house train him.

Other dog wasn't crated, house broken reliably by six months.

>>2228421
>If you guys went down the street and saw a guy with a big sign saying I WANT TO ARGUE WITH YOU would you take him up on it
What's wrong with that?

At this point it's blatant bait though, but it's pretty educational to debate a variety of views. Unfortunately in this case it's people equating crate training to abuse, but locking a dog up in a room is somehow not abuse.

It doesn't matter what you do for the puppy when they're not in their resting area, it only matters what the size of the resting area is. That's the sum of the argument opposing crate-training.

>>2228440
Is it really that hard for you to understand the difference between a space where an animal can move and a space where an animal can't? Don't be dense.

>>2228440
>it only matters what the size of the resting area is.
Also they're blatantly wrong about what size a wolf den is in the wild.

>>2228449
>a space where an animal can move and a space where an animal can't?

Does it look like the puppies in this post have room to move? >>2228393

As long as the puppy is moving enough and has plenty of exercise and stimulation, what does it need to move for anyway? To go sniff the other corner of the wall? Then go sniff the other corner?

You're entire argument revolves around the fact that you seem to view the entire focus of raising a puppy revolves around it's resting area. So basically what you're saying if I buy into what you're saying, it's all fine and dandy if I just leave that dog in the garage? Or the backyard? Or a spare bedroom? That's basically what I can gather since I have laid out what I do for my dog outside of the kennel. She gets plenty of exercise. I addressed the issue you raised with neglecting a dog in a kennel all day, and I agree. That's wrong and fucked up. I even provided a video and image showing what a wolf den looks like in the wild.

So my dog is sleeping right now after taking a long walk, knows almost all the basic obedience commands, is pretty well house broken to the extant where frankly I'm surprised she's done so well. Tell me that what I'm doing for my dog is equatable to abuse. Tell me how I'm worse than all the assholes that get a dog for no other reason than to make noise in their yard and don't even spend a few minutes a day with it.

The only thing that I've seen as a retort it "so defensive" "rationalizing abuse" where the only suggested alternative is putting a dog in basically just a larger cage without addressing any of the other things to consider in regards to raising a puppy.

Like I said though, this is just bait and now I'm bored due to lack of compelling arguments. Cheers.

>>2228436
>I crated my dog
Yet you're arguing with everyone about not crating their dogs? WTF?

>Other dog wasn't crated, house broken reliably by six months.

It's never taken me more than six weeks to potty train. Think I'll stick with the crating method, it seems to work a lot better.

>>2228475
Why are you comparing yourself to awful owners to look good? Yeah you're better than someone who ignores their dog, but anyone with a yard who gives their dog space is much better than you.

>basically just a larger cage

This is idiotic and you know it.

Your justifications are silly. And you're buttmad because you know caging an animal where they can't walk is bad no matter how you spin it.

>>2228497
There's nothing wrong with caging an animal, other than how long you do it.

>>2228497
Funny how you aren't making this same argument for vet offices and groomers.

>>2228508
Vets and groomers aren't caging for the purpose of protecting their sofa or going to the movies.

>>2228510
Most people don't cage for those reasons, just while the pup is learning to potty train, and so the dog isn't afraid of crates if it ever has to stay overnight at the vets. You seem to think , after the dog is potty trained, people keep using the crate. But it's not supposed to be used once the animal has learned whatever it is you are trying to teach them.

>>2228494
Actually, I wasn't that poster.

>>2228510
They cage to keep the animal out of trouble.

>>2228515
You're naive if you think this.

>>2228520
It's the owner's fault if there is any "trouble" to get in to.

>>2228414
Animal abuse is keeping your dog in a cage all day

>>2228436
>crated
Caged

>>2228451
A wolf can leave its den when it wants. A caged dog can't. 0/10 argument buddy

>>2228497
Like I said earlier man, it's a means to an end. It's a tool that I've employed properly and effectively. I look forward to when she doesn't have to be in it unless she just wants to go on her own and relax. She doesn't have any behavioral problems other than normal puppy behavior, chewing and eating shit that kind of thing and will grow into a fantastic and well mannered dog.

As far as putting her in a larger cage, yeah that's basically what you're saying. You still haven't addressed anything as far as what you do when they're not "caged" so as far as I'm concerned you still view it as a way to virtually ignore your dog, yet you'll still say that people that employ crate training are lazy and don't know what they're doing. If you leave them in a room too large, they'll feel compelled to eliminate since they'll have more space to move around, so not only are you leaving them unattended out of convenience, but you're letting them set themselves up for failure.

And yeah caging an animal where they can't walk is bad, I'm not spinning that at all. What I am saying is that she gets plenty of time to walk inside the house and in the yard, walks to a huge field to run around in that the early time of day we go means we have it all to ourselves so I've managed that requirement for her and like I said when she's mature enough she won't be in it anymore.

>>2228538
See >>2228533

>>2228540
See >>2228538

So what are you saying then? You're supposed to leave your front door open and let your dogs go roam around the streets wherever they want then?

>>2228525
>Animal abuse is keeping your dog in a cage all day
You are correct.

Proper implementation of crate training along with other stimulation and exercise would mean that a dog isn't in a crate all day.

>>2228407
>It's not well trained if you have to worry about it doing those things.
It's a fucking puppy, what the hell are you expecting out of it?

When my kid was a year old I couldn't even set her down in a sandbox or at the beach otherwise she would immediately start shoveling dirt into her mouth. It's not like you can explain to a human being that young that "hey you know what there is probably cat shit in that sand and it will get you sick" nor can you punish them. The same thing applies for infant dogs.

>it is good for a dog to put it in a cage inside where it can't move in order to force it to hold in its piss and shit for hours so it won't have to sit in it

This is literally what cratefags believe.

>>2228560
>it is good for a dog to be put in a room inside where it can move so it can get used to the idea of pissing and shitting in the house for months so you can tell people who great of a dog owner you are until you inevitably end up giving the dog up or let your house wreak like piss and shit because you're misaligned morality doesn't allow you to employ effective training methods

This is literally what retards believe

>>2228565
So you think no one has house trained a dog without confining it to an immobile cage? Are you stupid?

>>2228560
Where did you get the idea that anyone is forcing a puppy to hold it's per or poop? Because they can't, and that's not what the crate is for.

>>2228566
No one said you have to use a crate. No one said there weren't other ways of doing it either.

I mean, how did you potty train your dog? How did it go with the way you did it?

>>2228566
So what do you do then? Do you watch the dog like a hawk until you see it start sniffing around? Do you leave newspapers and pads all over the place?

I never even touched training pads since I didn't even want her to remotely get used to the idea of eliminating in the house.

Why don't you put one feasible alternative out there?

>>2228573
It's pretty simple.

No puppy actually wants to shit in their home, they just can't hold it in.

Whoever is home watching the puppy should read its signals; it WILL tell you when it needs to go outside. Whenever it wants to go outside, you take it outside. If you fuck up and the puppy starts shitting/pissing inside, you quickly take it outside let it finish there.

After a few weeks, it should be house trained.

If you don't have a family member who can watch the puppy during 90% of the day, you shouldn't get a puppy to begin with.

>>2228612
>If you don't have a family member who can watch the puppy during 90% of the day, you shouldn't get a puppy to begin with.


Tell that to every shelter that has litters of puppies they need to get rid of.

>>2228612
>No puppy actually wants to shit in their home
A dog's natural home, a den, is much smaller than your average home.

You've also obviously never had to deal with a dog that has had housebreaking issues. I was originally against kenneling a dog until I did my research and it changed my mind.

Now if your method works, hey great. I think it's unreasonable to demand a family member needs to spend 90 fucking percent of the day next to a puppy, especially when they sleep so much. The whole point of a crate is that you can control what is going on much easier, so that way when puppy wakes up mid nap and you're in the shitter it doesn't reap havoc in those few minutes.

It only takes a short moment for the puppy to eat something that could seriously fuck it up. It also only takes a handful of seconds for the puppy to eliminate and setback training.

That's cool and all though, if you have somebody that can dedicate that much time to helping you housebreak a dog that's great and all, but come on 90% of their time? Even with fucking babies you get more time to take care of shit you need to take care of because of how much they sleep. I guess that means that your family member needs to drag that sleeping puppy all over the place everywhere they go, including in the shower, in the pooper, just everywhere.

Crating isn't an excuse to just wonder off and forget about the dog, it's just to ensure that you have enough control to not let the dog have an accident.

>>2228554
Even while you are at work it's still abuse anon. I can't tell who's more cancerous anymore cat or dog owners

>>2228550
See>>2228533

>>2228047
That dog looks absolutely miserable. Even prisoners get more room to move around.

>>2228652
>Tell that to every shelter that has litters of puppies they need to get rid of
I'm pretty sure that most shelters would like to tell it to the general public.

99% of all shelter dogs are the result of irresponsible owners who didn't plan ahead, and got a dog without knowing how much work it takes to care for one.

>>2228515
There was a thread here just last week where some guy was going on about how there's nothing wrong with him keeping his adult dog locked up in a cage all day when he goes to work.

>>2228524
Which the owner was doing by putting in the crate, anon do expect them to carry the dog in a bag or something?

>>2228612
Literally no one is watching their puppy 90% of the day, this would drive anyone insane, and no one has time for this shit, if you insist on it because you're so morally opposed to a puppy spending a few months in a crate like a baby does in its cage than you just signed the death warrant to tens of millions of more dogs just because you projected your feelings of claustrophobia onto a fucking dog

>>2228221
>Only shit parents ever have to say this.

You take advice about raising kids from people who don't have kids?

Advice about puppies from people that have never raised one?

Yeah, only a shit parent would ignore that brilliant advice they give. Totes.

>239 posts
>9 unique posters

You're all replying to this 1 idiot from PETA that's made 200 posts. There are greasemonkey addons that identify posts made by new IPs. And there's like 50 posts in this thread made to look like their from new people, when they're not new IPs at all. Just the same guy from PETA who probably got beat up a lot in middle school.

>>2228703
There are 32 unique IPs in this thread, not 9.

>>2228397
>what real grinds my gears is those people who use shock collars.

Again, educate yourself on "shock collars." I'm serious. Just go to amazon and look up a shock collar and read its features. Then read reviews from people who zapped themselves. They are not the horrors they were 30 years ago.

>>2228494
>It's never taken me more than six weeks to potty train.

Some dogs are natural born retards. I have one dog that took 8 months, one dog that took 4 weeks. Same method used for both.

>>2228681
A baby can't walk idiot. It's not a valid comparison.

>>2228667
And you equate that to all crate training being bad?

Why don't we just go ahead and say all leashes are animal abuse as well since -some- people yank their dog around with it.

>>2228184
i crate my dog for 8 hours a day max, what are you on
crate her when im at class or not home, remaining 16 hours she's free to roam the house
she likes her crate, she goes in with the door open because it's a nice place to nap

>>2228184
You know what else people do?

Leave their dogs outside all day in the heat. Leave their dogs on a tethered pole or run with maybe one toy on a dirt surface and expect them to be entertained. Let their kids carry puppies around all fucking day long without considering how much they need sleep to grow. Get a 'guard dog', then proceed to throw it in the backyard and only ever come out to feed it and water it.

People do a lot of shitty things asshole. It's the person, not the tool.

Now go lobby against guns or some other bullshit.

>>2228714
a baby also doesn't have thousands of little tiny knives in his mouth either and can wear a diaper, good job ignoring everything else in that post

>>2228720
I crate my puppy for 16 hours a day because I need to sleep too

>>2228047

in after a bunch of replies that I haven't read

I lock her up at night while I either sleep next to the crate or on my bed next to the crate. It's for training her not to shit and piss everywhere.

We have a potty break late night and if she goes #1 and #2 she gets to roam free in the room. Otherwise back in the crate till another early morning outing.

>it's natural like a den

If you don't torture the dog with it, they may treat it like a nice place to sleep. I have one in my office and she likes to sleep in it. I don't lock her in it.

>the dog loves being locked up in a cage

errr... mine doesn't like that so much at all. but at bedtime she's fine as long as I am there by the door.

>it's for the dogs safety

mmkay... it's probably safer than throwing her in a wood chipper, so OK, sure, whatever.

>>2228716
I never said that. Just that there are indeed lazy fuckhead owners out there who somehow think that locking their dogs in a cage all day for no other reason than their own laziness is somehow defensible.

I honestly don't like the idea of using cages to pottytrain either, but I'll at least admit that it can be an effective tool.

>>2228047
I can't see how a dog would dislike crating if crating has never been an unpleasant experience

>>2228733
it's just people projecting their own feelings on to a dog, it's fucking retarded

>>2228047
I had a friend who kept his dog in a tiny space between the kitchen and the garden Lo day and i mean really tiny but he took the dog running to the park every single dY
My dog was allowed around the house all day but I los interested when we moved far away from the park and i hit puberty so I stopped walking him plus I tried the every day walking twice shit and it didn't calm he down so wathever
Who did worse?

>>2228730
my dog won't destroy anything as long as im home. i don't know if she would if i wasn't but i don't really have the money to find out

>>2228047
Personally I don't give half a fuck if you want to tie your dog so he can't move all day since a dog isn't my equal and doesn't deserve shit
But from an utilitarian point of view what's really the point of buying a dog you are going to have to care for 15 years if you are just going to put him away and take him out to play an hour a day just befriend a dog owner or something and you will save a fortune on food and get and if you don't feel like doing shit for a week you won't have to listen to him cry because he is not there

>>2228230
Bailing out Europe twice and being the only true super power left just small stuff you know?

>>2228764
Do you really believe we're a superpower?

We have no manufacturing, no production.

The only thing we have is the power of money. That's it.

>>2228107
Are you aware there are families with less than 2 children? Families with more than 2 children are needed to balance them out.

>>2228812
You have the strongest currency out of any country of the world, the us dollar is so powerful that if it lost value half of the world would go straight to poverty
Plus you have the biggest military and a secret service that kills presidents it doesn't like it always baffles me when you think America isn't so strong when for the rest of the world you guys are the most intimidating thing in existence
If aliens came down from the skies in distopian futuristic ships that would be the power equivalent between most of the world vs the usa

>>2228827
It's value only exists because of the petrodollar.

Trust me, unless we do something soon we're fucked and we'll look at fighting with each other on a turkish tortilla smelting forum as a luxury.

>>2228829
Well you might have Trump soon, lol. I think the only thing he really understands is the power of China.

Anyway it's dumb to think you're not a superpower, you have huge network of allies and cultural influence everywhere.

>>2228076

This. It's a good idea to keep a pup out of places when you literally can't watch them, but when your'e able, you'd better. I don't care what you had planned, you decided you wanted a puppy, now fucking care for it.

>>2228047
Hey OP.

My dog is very used to being in a kennel, and she knows when to enjoy, Fear, and tolerate it.

Right now she's in heat. It's very inconvenient for me to have blood spots everywhere, so she sleeps in the kennel. Every other hour of the day she wanders the house when inside. I don't have carpet so that's nice. (Tolerate)

If she's under our feet while cooking, we put her in it for her own safety. (Tolerate)

When we're sitting down in the living room (the kennel is right next to the couches) she prefers to sleep in her kennel as opposed to the couch. Despite it being more comfortable, she would rather have her own space. (Enjoy)

Then, a habit I'm still trying to break, she will pull things out of the garbage and litter them all over the floor. So I put her in the cage for at least a half hour with the whole thing covered. (Fear)

Those are the most common situations I deal with. A lot of people say that a crate should be a safe place for your dog to enjoy, and to absolutely not use it for punishment, but she extremely smart and knows the difference between punishment and enjoyment. I use it for training and reward, and it's working nicely.

>>2228681
>Literally no one is watching their puppy 90% of the day
Up until the crate fad started, almost everyone did.

fun fact, if the doggo is over eight weeks it's illegal to keep it in a cage in sweden unless the vet tells you to keep it in there for "cage rest".

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>>2229002

>sweden's legal and illegal things

>>2229002
It's also illegal not to rape when you're a muzzie in Cuckden so no surprise there

>>2229011
i knew this would be the response. you can talk ill about our immigration/rape laws but we've got solid doggie dog laws

i find it off putting how other countries use cages and prong collars as normal tools for raising a dog

>>2229011
haha anon

u totally owned him, man

LOL xDD

>>2228829
I dobut I will live to see the day murika gets detroned
Sure China is doing amazing but China also needs murika what goods Is foxcon without murikan companies tpbuy all the parts for the phones?

>>2229013
>solid doggie dog laws
>illegal to use effective training tools because they are perceived as bad
>expecting police to hunt down puppy cagers
>letting somalis rape women and have the media cover up
>you can talk ill about our immigration/rape laws but we've got solid doggie dog laws

You faggots really need to get your priorities straight. Is it really more important to you that somebody doesn't have a collar that pinches their dog's neck than having a country free from crime?

Well I find it pretty off putting that your country is destroying itself on a daily basis because the people who run your government are a bunch of masochists.

>>2229042
raping being a problem doesn't make it any more forgiving to treat a dog like shit. if you don't want to stay on topic then you shouldn't post at all.

>>2229048
It's a fucking training tool, training tools can be grossly misused and abused, but you'd rather outright ban their use because you perceive them as being bad 100% of the time or because they look scary or something.

You praise your benevolent government for banning a training tool because of some collar that lightly pinches a dogs neck and "it looks scary" meanwhile women are being fucking raped, buy hey Sven it's a good thing you banned those evil collars that pinch a dogs neck. That's really going to ensure the longterm stability of your country.

I wouldn't even touch a prong collar personally, but if it's used correctly it's far from "treating a dog like shit"

>>2229051
>smoking weed should be legalized because alcohol is worse
>we shouldn't complain about shitty workplace conditions because it's worse in north korea
Nice reasoning you've got there, my redpilled friend.

also:
>Sven meme
You have to be 18 or older to post on 4chan, bud.

>>2229052
That comparison doesn't even make sense. I'm just pointing out that Sven is so proud that his country is so great to ban the use of so called "abuse methods"

Do you realize who really treats dogs like shit? Muslims and Arabs. Do you really think they'll be convinced to care for dogs the same way native swedes do? Fuck no. But this guy here is going to have a chip on his shoulder and feel proud because kenneling a dog for housebreaking is bad, tell owners that do that they're treating their dogs like shit, and import a bunch of people who not only rape women (which I guess isn't even a point to argue if this guy is a faggot), but treat dogs far worse than somebody simply using a pinching collar.

He's the one who brought his grand altruistic country into the discussion, not I.

>>2229051
you're talking out of your ass and you're making up stupid comparisons. all i pointed out was that we have a law created to protect dogs and keeping away bad owners and part of that law is that it's not allowed to keep them in a cage other than veterinary advice or travel. take your rape talk elsewhere because it's not relevant here.

>>2229059
yes, i brought up the country because earlier in the thread people were discussing if this was an american thing.

>>2229060
>take your rape talk elsewhere because it's not relevant here.
What about OP who was against crate training that went off about molesting kids? Surely you're not a hypocrite and telling him that's not relevant to the discussion, right?

It's not even a bad thing inherently to kennel, or cage if you want to play semantics, or to use a prong collar. People who are willing to use these methods to train a dog aren't evil, people who think dogs are filthy and won't even touch let alone train them are probably worse.

>>2228047
What is the point of doing this to an adult dog? Can't you just let it live in the backyard?

And if you live in an apartment, you shouldn't own big dogs.

>>2228144
>never heard of training a dog

I hope you don't have a dog.

>>2228145
>leaving golf balls out for puppy to eat

Why? It's not that hard to put things like that out of reach.

>>2228989
>he thinks putting a dog in "time out" works

Moron.

>>2228151
That's like saying human babies aren't intelligent. They aren't, but humans are an intelligent species.

>>2229078
American pet industry has convinced cityfags it's ok to own any dog and it's good for them to be put in a cage where they can't move to protect their apartments and tiny houses. That's literally all that's going on.

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>>2228072
>appeal to authority
>add hominem
>nofactspresented.jpg
>He can't into debate


Not even saying you're right or wrong famalam.

>>2228989
So you put your dog in solitary confinement because you're too dumb not to drop things or protect your garbage can?

>>2229093
Yeah man that sounds like a great way to raise a puppy, standing in front of the garbage can fending off an immature dog that just smells goodies in it from trying to get into it all day.

That's a much better approach than slowly introducing it to the household and using a tool to prevent it from going to the bathroom in the house.

I don't see a point kenneling adult dogs though and if they're getting destructive it's usually because they're severely under stimulated and kenneling will only make it worse.

>>2229113
>making it sound so impossible to train a puppy

This is why most people shouldn't get puppies.

This thread is still here? I figured it's raw mass of pure bullshit would have formed a gravitational field and pulled the which-pet-food and neuter-or-not masses of bullshit into orbit to form a new celestial body comprised entirely of bullshit.

I guess science really is unpredictable, afterall.

>>2229287
I'm feeding into it in the hopes that the board gets flooded with bullshit threads-which it looks like its already started- and eventually the board just goes to shit with no actual discussions!! It's gonna be fun!

>>2228090
>>2228321
stop comparing dogs to humans you anthropomorphizing cuck

>>2228047
Why do you care?

>>2231112
Because animal abuse sucks. Animal abuse that is largely accepted by society is worse.

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>>2228053
nice appeal to authority

>>2228069
this is a well reasoned argument.

>>2228072
Appeal to authority is called what?

FALLACY
A
L
L
A
C
Y

I crate trained my puppy until she was about 1.5 years old. First when she was a puppy it was anytime she wasn't being supervised. Then as she grew older it was only where we would leave the house. Finally we just packed the crate away.

She showed some hesitancy in going near the end if it was during the morning and we would be away at work for several hours but she absolutely hated it. I was worried the first night we had her as she cried and cried when she was left alone at night. The next morning when she had been out playing for a while she climbed right back in to go for a nap. Frequently during that middle stretch we would come home and open the crate and she would just stay in for another 15 minutes until she was done waking up and stretching. Some friends of mine crate their dogs for long periods of time without a blanket (probably so they don't chew it up). I see callouses on those dogs elbows and feel bad for them.

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>>2231157
>Some friends of mine crate their dogs for long periods of time without a blanket (probably so they don't chew it up). I see callouses on those dogs elbows and feel bad for them.

Mine gets a big fluffy mattress in both her crates and a little doggy fleece blanket. Some toys in the night-time crate too. Pic is not mine but that's the general theme.

People have different reasons for crating dogs. Mine is purely for housetraining and giving her a comfortable place to sleep, and it has so far been working out excellently. The day crate is mostly just a place for her to sleep/rest and I don't lock her in it. It has a cover and comfy materials... I'd sleep there too if I was a dog.

The night crate is for keeping her from going to the bathroom till I take her outside, and I lock her in it. In the early morning I take her out. If she does her #1 & #2, she gets to sleep wherever in the bedroom. If not- back in the crate, and another attempt later.

I don't love crates for anything but sleeping/being a comfy place to rest, and make heavier use of pet gates to control where the dog is. Crating as punishment makes no sense to me and I'm always curious to hear stories about that. When I'm feeling in a punishy mood for some transgression, I put the dog outside and close the door... but I guess not everyone can do that.

>>2228047
You know, I don't claim to know what dogs this k, but I think encouraging more people to give dogs homes who would normally not be able to be home for the dog is good for dogs as a whole. It keeps dogs from being surrendered because people don't realize the time commitment