Are border collies really that bad in terms of first time dog

>>2222633
Yes. Get a pug first, or something similar. If you can handle that, then you move on to bigger dogs. You don't throw your kid in the deep end when they're learning to swim, you start them in the shallows first, same idea here.

The main thing is their unholy high energy. If you have never had a dog before, you have zero frame of reference on how much exercise these guys need. Get a medium sized, medium energy adult dog as a first dog.

>>2222660
I'd prefer at least a medium sized dog desu. Brittany's, Shetland Sheepdogs, lab, retrievers etc. My girlfriend has owned dogs before so we won't be completely new. I do understand what you're saying though.

They're not bad

Intelligent, nihilistic, with a wicked sense of humor

they're not a bad first dog if you're dedicated to training an engaging them

i'm talking several hours a day of devoted attention and stimulation

if you're not very experienced with dogs (or even if you are) this might overwhelm you, you basically need to dedicate your life to these dogs

if you already like to spend a significant chunk of time hiking, jogging or biking through trails or playing sports at the park, you might be able to fit one into your lifestyle no problem

>>2222663
Don't get any of those. Get something with medium to low energy. Go to the shelter and look for a calm but affectionate doggo. Also, you might want to get an adult to start with because puppies are a handful unless you don't work for the first couple months while you train and socialize them

>>2222708
Physical exercise shouldn't be too much of a problem. My girlfriend and I work different schedules so there will be somewhere here 22/24 hours of the day. Both of us could provide well over an hour each for exercise. Training would be the more difficult part and honestly you bring up a good point. It might be wiser to adopt a dog 1-2 years old who already has some training. Luckily for me my landlord doesn't allow pets so it won't be until I buy a house. It will give me ample time to seriously consider what breed and how young.

>>2222725
>>2222748
Meant to quote you too

My first dog is an English Shepherd, a cousin to the Border Collie and Australian Shepherd.
He gets pretty crazy sometimes but with a decent walk and some games like putting treats in a Kong, and he's totally fine.
He doesn't like to stay still and relax for very long, so just gotta make sure he's got something to do and he's supervised and it's fine.

Same way with a Border Collie. Just give them stuff to do and it will keep them out of trouble.

If you can put the time in and know what you're getting into, maybe you'll be alright. These guys thrive on stimulation, training and activity. If you put the effort into actually doing this, yes, but I wouldn't recommend them to MOST first timer dog owners. Research and genuine effort is key.

Look up activities you can do with them, sure you can go to a park/field and throw a ball around for a few hours and it's great, or you can get them into dogsports/activities like Flyball, Disk Dog, Obedience and Agility. They'll love it, you will too. Stimulating for both parties.

I'd recommend a Labrador for first timers in all honesty. I'd be hard pressed to find dogs that are better all-round companions than retrievers. They're intelligent, good tempered, complete and utter sweethearts. Be on top of training them from pups and I doubt you'll have many issues with them. Of all my dogs my Labrador has been the easiest to train,and the most eager to please, the only comparable dog in that sense was my Rottweiler. They picked up what I was trying to teach them in no time, my Bulldog on the other hand took much longer. My lab was a complete goofball, too.

Collies are absolutely fantastic dogs, but I'm not sure I would recommend them for inexperienced trainers.You mentioned physical activity might not be too much of an issue, but if you have trouble fitting the time in you may be better off with a breed that likes to lie around and be a couch potato, medium-low energy.

>>2222816
>I'd recommend a Labrador for first timers in all honesty.
I would agree with you as it being a pretty good option for a first time dog owner, but Labs are fucking nuts too. They're so energetic and they chew everything and anything for two years.

My Standard Poodle puppy on the other hand has been really great. She gets a little mouthy at times, but her bit inhibition has gotten so much better. It's been easy to get her to the point where she doesn't chew most random things and will consistently go for her toys instead when she has to teething. She's also learned "wait" and is very patient when it comes to feeding time.

Don't get me wrong labs are great though, but the puppy phase with them is very difficult. If OP decides to get an older rescue dog, he would probably do very well with a Lab.

Now I have never personally raised a Lab puppy myself, but my mom did and I've seen a lot of other Lab owners have the massive issues with leash pulling. That problem might mostly be on the owners and I would still have to say that if you are willing to put in the time and effort to teach the puppy proper behavior, it won't be a problem.

But given on my experience thus far, I would have to put my vote in for a Standard Poodle being a great first dog.

>>2222816
>>2222828
Labs and retrievers are definitely on our lists. They seem like the perfect fit for first time dog owners because of how versatile they are. Im just really enamoured with the look of BC, duck retrievers, Shetland Sheepdogs to be honest. But I know temperament is way more important than aesthetics.

>>2222839
You can get whatever dog you would like to get and a BC wouldn't be bad. The only thing you need to do once you've decided on which breed you'd like to have, is to do some thorough research and come to a full understanding of what kind of dog you're getting. If you want to get a Border Collie because you think they look badass? That's fine as long as you understand how much energy they have and dedicate time to managing it's drives. I ended up deciding on my poodle for the simple reason that they don't shed. I'm not even allergy to dogs, I just can't stand the hair all over the fucking place.

I reserved her about a month before I was even able to pick her up, so I had plenty of time to do research on the breed and dog training in general and it paid off dearly. She's just barely 12 weeks old now and is so well behaved for a puppy that age, that frankly I'm surprised. She obviously still gets into puppy mode, but it's rewarding to see how much my effort has paid off and once she's grown up I know she will be a very well composed, well behaved doggo.

>>2222828
I'll admit anon, you're right- the leash pulling can be a problem- it took my guy longer to pick up walking to heel and politely on a leash longer than it took him to pick up on everything else.

Those first two years he was incredibly boisterous and challenged his boundaries pretty frequently, something I remember quite clearly was the "zoomies"/FRAPS where he thought it would be great fun to turbo sprint around the house at full speed from time to time, he could care less what was in his path, I could have sworn he ran along the walls at one point. That can be a problem if you're in a small house.Hyper little shit, but I loved him. He mellowed out considerably after a few years.

Poodles are awesome anon, smart doggos. A litter I'm looking at at the moment is a Golden Retriever/Standard Poodle mix, which I'm admittedly in love with. Poodles are great dogs.

>>2222845
Well I'll be honest I originally wanted a husky but I soon realized it wouldn't be the smartest idea for a first dog. I know a BC isn't good either for a first dog but they seem to be a little more manageable.

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>>2222847
>Golden Retriever/Standard Poodle
I thought about getting a Poodle mix, but ultimately decided on a purebred for the simple fact that the breed has been around long enough they have established the temperament for the dogs. Also purebred poodles (bred right anyway) can be very healthy compared to other purebreds (bulldogs for instance) so the hybrid vigor isn't all that important.

If you did want to go for a poodle mix, I would have to recommend an Australian Labradoodle, since it's more of an established breed where they breed Labradoodle to Labradoodle than Poodle to Lab, or Labradoodle.

Pic related. I've had people think she was a goldendoodle.

>>2222854
>I know a BC isn't good either for a first dog but they seem to be a little more manageable.

As long as you feel that you can properly manage all that energy and need for mental stimulation, there's no problem. I would honestly have to say to get a Poodle though. They are usually regarded as being just as smart as Border Collies and they don't shed!

>>2222859
I'm not a fan of how poodles look. Labradoodles and goldendoodles look very good which is another option.

>>2222861
I wasn't either and most owners give them some funky ass haircuts. I didn't really spend that much time around poodles until I went to go see her as a puppy and saw her mom and dad. To me they're great looking dogs and very very friendly towards people. When her hair gets to the point where she finally needs a haircut, I just plan on shaving her to a 10 all around, I'm not a big fan of all the weird foofoo haircuts.

I have a border collie. Energy is not an issue, because she has another dog to play with. Even so , just running around with her several times a day is plenty for exercise. Her mind is what needs stimulation, so I just take her everywhere I go. She takes in all the stimuli and happy doggie.

>>2222909
What kind of mental stimulating do you do?

>>2222660
Don't pugs have health problems because of their short snout? Probably not a good ideqa for a first timer.

>>2223504

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>>2223504
get a mutt pug

>>2222633
>Are border collies really that bad in terms of first time dog owners?

Yes, pretty much worst dog you could possibly buy. They are also categorically excluded if you do not have a huge property to run on, in which case you are torturing them.

>>2223542
Are you implying all first time dog owners don't own a big yard or have easy access to one? I think what you're attempting to say is most first timers don't really understand how much physical activity they require.

>>2223552
>Are you implying all first time dog owners don't own a big yard or have easy access to one?

I'm implying that 99% of people who are not farmers do not have access to a big enough area for border collies. They need acres to run.

>>2223564
>only farmers can own a BC
Seems a little dramatic anon. There's a tonne of resources online that suggest 2 hours of physical and short 5-10 mental exercises a few times a day are more than enough for most. It will depend on the dog and the breed itself.

>>2223564
I would lower that stat you pulled out of your ass anon. Not saying that MOST people in largely populated areas don't have access to acreage, but a lot of people who live outside cities have acreage and are not farmers or even ranchers.

Just not in the mood for /an/s general "no one can properly care for any animal, especially if they are on /an/" attitude. Maybe I need a nap.

>>2223564
>>2223588
Just a reminder to never take advice on 4chan seriously.

>>2223578
read the comment again; 99% of people who aren't farmers don't own enough land to comfortably own a bc.

Doesn't mean they can't full stop, I can think of at least two people who own BCs and aren't farmers, and the dogs are in good health. They just to either be walked to a large field or park, or have a large garden to run around in.

They DO require a lot of exercise though

>>2223542
>this guy again
>every thread

You can live in a fucking tiny shack but if you're able to go to a park and let it run, take it on walks and have some toys to keep it mentally stimulated, you'll be fine with any dog.

>"hurr durr you're torturing it"
God, shut up. You say this every time.

>>2223542
You're an idiot. You can absolutely have a happy, properly simulated border collie in an apartment or a small house with no yard.

>>2222660
Small dogs aren't inherently easier, and large dogs harder.

Go for a large doggo if you'd like. My first dog was a rottweiler mix and he was fucking excellent and I still miss that son of a gun every day. He liked to butt heads with you though, as a lot of molossers do.

Shit man, my dad's first dog was a doberman.

>>2223775
OP here. Medium sized dog is what I'll be aiming for. Rottie is a big too big for me. The size I'll be looking for is 35-75 lbs.

>>2223564
>not owning property means that there is no where to run

Are you retarded?

>>2223592
Just a reminder that the good advice is what 4chan tells you NOT to do.

>>2223597
>They DO require a lot of exercise though.

Agreed.