About a month ago I bought my first fish tank. I've been

All of them.
There is not a single one that isn't.

>>2209976
This. It's the know it alls that kind of ruin it. But that's why I do my own research, keep to myself, only give advice when asked, and not be a dick about there situation.

>>2209974
Well if you're going to put a large fish in a small tank you deserve to be knocked down a few pegs m8. For me it's reptile owners though.

>>2209985

Oh 100%. There's prevention of cruelty and there's being a dick though. I read one comment on a forum from someone that wrote nothing short of a small book tearing into this girl for all sorts of minor things before another member corrected him on his catergorisation of certain species as tropical / coldwater. So my view would be if you can offer advice when asked then go for it. Some people just like to hear themselves talk though

>>2209974
I've been in the fishkeeping hobby since I was a kid, with a break from 20-24, 27 now and I gotta agree to some extent.

People are often very stuck up about the way they see the hobby and it is hard for them to accept that there are different kinds of approaches in this hobby. Like getting mad at people not doing planted tanks, getting mad at people overstocking, getting mad at people using beginner fish, getting mad because water parameters don't exactly resemble those where the fish came from in nature, despite them being bred in tapwater etc..

In the end, this hobby rewards patience and research a lot, and I have seen many people that are open minded and helpful towards beginners, many here to on /aq/ but as I said, there's apparently a very loud minority (?) that can't deal with people enjoying the hobby in a way different to them or beginners making obvious beginner mistakes.

I for myself always try to be constructive. Chances are, beginners are more eager to listen when you don't call them names for making 'obvious' mistakes.

>>2209974
the poison dart frog community literally believes they are Noah's ark so they preserve every locality detail for every bred frog.

Not to prevent inbreeding, but the exact opposite. They consider them "hybrids" if you mix the same species from different countries or even different part of the same country.

They will fucking bully the shit out of anyone that successfully hybridizes frogs because it pollutes the whole "community".

They are fearful of ending up like the reptile trade where artificial morphs are more desirable than the wild morphs


Just google "species hybrid breed"

Some species to try:

Dendrobates tinctorius
Dendrobates auratus
Dendrobates leucomelas
Oophaga pumilio

>>2209991

This is exactly what I'm encountered. Personally, I've been somewhat duped into buying a 20L tank. Now, instead of getting constructive advice on how to manage this tank (I'm open to the extra workload) I've had at least a dozen people tell me to bin it with one guy suggesting I just grow plants in there. It's really off putting for someone that's only ever kept goldfish (poorly) before

>>2209988
Yep. I will not tear someone apart. I will give them advice on how to improve the current situation.

Reptile/amphibian community. Holy fuck are they autistic. I'd rather walk in a fish store and tell them I'm buying a gold fish for my 5 gallon then walk into a reptile store and ask for advice

>>2209974
>and was looking for a pet I could keep without my landlord knowing
This is the part I'm curious about.

Typically, leases say "no pets," though if you actually talk to landlords/landladies and specifically ask them about fish, in my experience they don't seem to mind - in their mind fish don't "mess" up their units.

If you haven't set anything up yet, do you know how your landlord feels about fish tanks?

It's not the same, but back when I was in college and my roommate bought a puppy without telling me (dick move), or the landlady, it turned into a huuuuuge shitshow because the lease said no pets and the asshole wouldn't clean up after the dog. And I was stuck in the middle of that.

Again, fish are different and less "messy," but be sure you don't want to end up in a shitshow yourself.

Also, I am sure you already know this, but fish can be expensive; tanks require cleaning and maintenance and the fish/environments, unless you are going for a more classic "goldfish" type of deal, will force to spend a little bit of dosh.

>>2210010

Our lease does say no pets. We rent from an agency that only shows up to the property once a year (at the end of the contract). I never bothered to ask their thoughts on fish as I figured by the time they'd see them I'd be leaving anyway. We live below another flat rented out by the same agency so that meant we couldn't have anything that might make noise like a dog.

Out of interest, what kind of "shitshow" did you endure with your landlady?

>>2209994
I should also clarify that they keep the locality info so they can release them back in the wild after the local humans learn that clear cutting for farming or housing was bad for the animals. Soon the rainforest will reclaim all that land and all the animals can return.

So, in just a short time now! they can release the D. auratus of a specific Costa Rican mountain back to the exact spot rather than some mudblood Panama/Costa Rican mix

>>2209994
Oh fuck yeah, I read that shit when I was doing research on dart frog care. This shit is autismus maximus

>>2209998
Yeah, people often go ballistic, even if it is clear that the person is not doing something with an ill intent. If you need help with the 20l, feel free to ask me in /aq/ or here. I somewhat specialize in smaller tanks/species, but I can tell you from the get go, that 20l is more suited for inverts like shrimp, but can house fish or dwarf frogs aswell if you set it up right.

>>2210020

Not a bad idea in theory I suppose but definitely obnoxious of a guy keeping a couple of frogs to think he's somehow conserving the species.

>>2210024
>>2210027
Yeah well it wouldn't be that unbearable but they don't tone down the autism when a 15 year old pops up and makes a first post saying "I love frogs! My parents are letting me get a tank. I want a yellow one, a blue one, and a red one! Where do I start?"

>>2210024

At the minute I've got 5 Zebra Danios in there. They've been there a while and seem happy enough. I'm not sure where to go from here though. I've had some people tell me I could get 3-4 more Danios and maybe a Paradise Fish while others have said I shouldn't be keeping anything at all in there. What's your opinion?

In my opinion it's cat owners. Especially people here. They will both bite your head off for having an outdoor cat, or skin you alive if you mention you have an indoor cat.

It's the argument of stimulation really. They argue indoor cats don't get enough stimulation. Outdoor cats get stimulation from nature. But there's really no winning. Personally I say do what the cat says. I've known cats that hated going outdoors and cats that loved going outdoors but always came back

>>2210018
Roommate left bags of shit on the back porch without throwing them out. Wouldn't clean up the yard which blew his """cover""" when the landlady brought prospective tenants over.

She confronted him and said the dog goes by the weekend (at that time, Thanksgiving). He said yes but didn't remove the dog. Once the landlady found out (again, bags of shit on the unit's back porch), she exploded and said the dog goes or else.

I tried to negotiate via phone (though I hated the stupid fucking dog and was mad that he bought it without asking me and our other roommate, not to mention leaving it in a cage for most of the day), but he ended up as a big crying mess. He eventually "got rid of it" which meant occasionally leaving it at his parents' house on the weekends and I had to put up with the little shit for most of the rest of the year.

When she tried to dock our security payment because of the dog fiasco he made such a stink about threatening to sue that she dropped it. I felt bad for her; she wasn't a great landlady (not a bad one), but she was dealing with a entitled brat living off of daddy's money and no idea about consequences. I felt bad for the dog being left in a little cage while he went and spent all day at class (pre-med).

/rant
Terrible time; hated my senior year

Again, I imagine that most landlords don't care about fish as long as you don't spill a tank of water/fish shit all over the floor. If you do God help you.

>>2210032
Do what you want and just keep testing your water. The Danios will like a little school and then maybe get one or two of something like a Gourami or another small school or barbs for color.

As long as they can all live in the same water conditions and temps and one fish can't fit inside the other's mouth, it's simple. And don't totally crowd the tank but with small community tanks like that just make sure you have good filtration and keep up with water changes.

At least your tank sounds established, because that is one thing that everybody had an opinion on and newcomers are too impatient to wait for. I had to refuse sales and returns for so many people at the ol' Petsmart because they didn't want to wait a few weeks before adding 25 fish to their 10gal. Goddamn I'm glad I don't work there anymore.

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>>2210032
I figure you got a 20l cube (you mean litres, not gallons, right?) The danios can grow up to 6cm or a bit more, so at the moment they may be holding up, since you got them when they were young, but they will outgrow the tank and cause a huge strain on your water parameters, meaning most likely algae and ammonia problems, unless your maintenance and filtration is spot on.

My advice would be to look for a new home for them, and maybe introduce 3-4 endler guppy males or 2 african dwarf frogs into the tank as inhabitants. Lesser bioload and they stay small. You could also keep a single betta in there, if you prefer keeping a single fish.

Or you could go the invert route, keeping dwarf shrimp of the neocaridina genus, or certain hardy caridina like amano shrimp or babaulti shrimp. You could easily keep 40+ dwarf shrimp in such a tank, since they have no bioload and basically just need some moss, some wood and some sort of leaflitter for optimal conditions (but would also be happy without those).

You may also take a look at dwarf crayfish like the CPO or the shuffeldti.

Other option would be to look for an Upgrade to a 60 or an 80l in the future. You are not harming your danios as of now as they are a very hardy species anyways, but with an 80l you could get some more danios and even keep some other fish.

Pic is a black bar endler guppy.

>>2210051
No, I think he means 20gal long. A typical 20gal tank is something like 24"L x 12"W x 18"H while a 20gal long is 30"L x 18"W x 12"H.

Pretty sure the measurements are wrong, but a 20gal long shares the same footprint as a 29gal but is shorter so it will still fit the same stands and stuff. Common sizes in the US.

>>2210051
Or it could be a 20 liter tank. Idk. I'm just so used to 20L being a 20gal long from selling aquariums in the US for years. Didn't reread anon's original post before that last comment.

>>2210027
Especially when it's Dendrobates auratus which is not even slightly endangered. Those things are everywhere, inlcluding farmland.

>>2209974
Fucking cat owners that insist that it's perfectly okay to endanger their pets life by letting it roam outside unattended, and who think it's perfectly fine to allow their animal to kill wildlife and shit in people's yards.

>>2210059
It ceases to be a pet at that point. Just another pest aka "roadkill to be"

Reptile and Fish communities both neck to neck for me, largely because of the know it alls who push their superiority over "casual keepers" or people who just really want to care for their fish/reptile pet.

I can understand giving people shit on people who house their reptile in shitty conditions, improper reptile care, cramming a million fish into a 10g, or getting a fish that grows 5 feet long for your 20g.
But those who give people shit on having non exotic species or super rainbow/triple extra large/cherry/pied snowflake breed, or using fake plants instead of spending a shit ton of money on making a goddamn natural biome in their house are faggots.

>>2209991
I agree with most of your points but I hope you understand that overstocking is one of the most common causes of a failed aquarium.

Lots of fish in a small tank can be done with proper equipment and knowhow, so I don't count fish and gallons and shitpost every time I see a lot of fish in a tank. Still, the reasons why fishkeepers hate overstocking are valid, for people just fuck their shit up all the time doing that.

Yeah, I guess I'm an obnoxious fishkeeper saying that. But I'll always urge the basics like don't overfeed, change water often, and don't overstock.

>>2209974
The reptile whisperers.

20-something students with a beardie/leo/ball python/corn snake, kept in a bland as fuck tank under suboptimal conditions and abused daily for handling time.

The herp general is chockfull of these morons.

>>2210995
I agree 100% on that, and I myself rather under than overstock, but I was actually referring to those people you mentioned that just go into alert mode, when someone mentions that he keeps 14 neon tetras in a 10 gallon, without knowing his filtration, maintenance, feeding and especially how densely he has planted.

Now let's say there's a guy that keeps 60 african cichlids in a 55 gallon, that shit can't be done under no circumstances, at least if keeping fish healthy is the goal, and it would be a whole different case compared to the one mentioned above.

>>2210024
Hey mate, could you advise me on stocking in my tank? I have an approx 160-170l aquarium, planted, eheim 2028 canister. Have 1 standard angel, 2 veil tail angels, 7 kuhlu loach, 19 neon tetra, 5 otocinclus catfish, 1 silver shark. I know the silver shark will grow large, he will be rehomed when he gets too big. Would it be OK to get another standard angel?

>>2209974
>About a month ago I bought my first fish tank
>I've been unemployed all summer

Snort. I made that mistake. I think all said and done, it ended up being around $800 the first year. I thought I could do it for $200 when I priced everything out .... then the algae started. First red slime, then green slime, then green crust, and each one brought a burst of expense and annoyance. Having to invest in fancier water tests, fancier skimmer, fancier filter, additives, lots of snails, lots of water changes, gravel vacuum, bigger tank, fancier light, etc etc.

Sigh. Started out relaxing for the first 6 months. Now it's just a job.

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>>2211097
...see, that's why I won't do saltwater tanks.

>>2211050
Plugged it into AqAdvisor for ya:

>Warning: Neon Tetra may become food for Angelfish.
Warning: Otocinclus vestitus may become food for Angelfish.
Warning: Bala Shark is too aggressive to co-exist with Neon Tetra.
Warning: Bala Shark is too aggressive to co-exist with Otocinclus vestitus.
Warning: Bala Shark is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 12 inches.
Warning: At least 5 x Bala Shark are recommended in a group.
Warning: Neon Tetra may become food for Bala Shark.
Warning: Otocinclus vestitus may become food for Bala Shark.

>>2211104
Not sure how accurate that is. My shark could care less about any of the other fish. The angelfish I can see possibly bothering the neons at some point, but so far have shown no interest at all. Ditto with the otos. In your opinion is it overstocked, I trust a person with experience more than an equation that can't think? I'm overfiltered by about 6x, and water parameters are good.

>>2211121
Most juvenile fish don't show agression. Most fish will eat anything that will fit into their mouths and angels are notorious for eating neons.

AqAdvisor is not completely accurate, but it's good to use as a starting point. My tank is 55 gallons and if I stocked it with your fish I'd still consider it overstock. You asked for opinions; my opinion is that your tank is already overstocked. Don't ask a question if you're going to be a dick about the answer.

>>2211129
Woah steady on. I was asking for your opinion, not aquadvisors. No problem, if they eat the neons they eat the neons I suppose, they get free food and I reduce the stock in the tank.

>>2211168
I think I misread your response a little bit! I was the rude one, sorry v_v;;

In my opinion yes it's very overstocked. I would definitely rehome the shark because it'll get way too big for that tank. I wouldn't add anything else but it'll probably be okay with the rest of it.

>>2211050
The guy you originally replied to:

I would like to see the shark go, and personally, I wouldn't keep angels in anything less than 200l/50gal but that's just my preference.

Angels eating neons can happen, but often depends on the angels temperament and how the neons were introduced into the tank.

With 3 Angels, you could be stretching it, since they get quite big and tall, I'd at least reduce them to 2, if possible.

19 Neons could work, assuming its innesi, not axelrodi, which get bigger. Otos I see no problem.

In general, if you overfilter and your tank is well planted, besides angels and the shark, there's no big need for adjustment.

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>>2209974

12 year old horse "owners" or "trainers". I hate them.

>>2211177
No problem mate, thanks for the advise. Yep the shark is definately going to be rehomed at some point.

The funny thing I find with fish is that people are very quick to give hard and fast rules, but they don't always seem to be correct. Many years ago I had an approx 110l tank, had chichlids with neon tetras for years with no issues, whereas if you look on the internet for this combo, people will tell you it can't work.

Also, if you look up what sort of water angelfish want, everyone says that they do not like current at all. Mine love going up into the current and surfing it, they then go back to the start and do it again. Sometimes they like to just sit in the current treading water. It's quite weird.

>>2211330
Thanks for the advice mate, as I said to the guy above, the shark will definately.be going. All the fish were introduced at approximately the same time, so they seem to be used to each other, but time will tell. If the angels do get too big I'll just get a bigger tank. I'd get one now, but as we are renting it's just going to be a bigger pain when we inevitably move.

>>2211450
Yeah, I feel you, people theorycraft and chase numbers too much instead of observing and using their own experience.

I for example keep african dwarf frogs with dwarf shrimp. 'Aquarium' rules dictate, that the frogs should prey on the shrimplets, but not only did I never observe such prey behavior, I have seen baby shrimp crawling right around the frog's mouths and the frogs just felt bothered by them and swam away. I also get a lot of breeding with my shrimp and have to sell regularly to not make their population explode.

>>2211453
Good to hear. If its just juvie angels, I see no problem anyways. Angels often munch on neons when they are grown and neons are introduced into an angel tank.