How has the pet industry managed to convince people that crating

This is bait

>>2201093
No it's not.

If you do not own land don't buy a dog.

>>2201096
I live in an apartment and I have a border collie, one of the most active dog breeds. We manage.

>>2201098
So you're probably giving it a shit life for your own enjoyment.

>>2201091
Lol

This is even weaker bait than the conspiracy shit people post.

I hope /an/ is better than what I know it is.

>>2201099
She's very happy actually. She gets exercise from running and mental stimulation from clicker training, food puzzles, and nosework.

>>2201093
>>2201098
>>2201100
>>2201101
>people who think putting intelligent animals in little cages all day so they can go to work is good for them

>>2201107
0/8 gotta work on that b8 m8. It's definitely not gr8.

>>2201113
Deny it all you want. Crating is convenience for humans and has nothing to do with dogs well-being.

>>2201115
>not having an open crate for your dog to retreat to, and have it's own space.
For shame anon, if you had a crate you would be a better owner.

only lazy people don't crate train their dogs

if your dog ever has an emergency and needs to be crated at the vet he will be 100% worse of for not having been crate trained an it is your fault for being a shit owner

they're also great for travel

my crate is folded up in the garage and is rarely used but i will always crate train my dogs


i tried to get my aunt to crate train her two dogs but she fell for the "it's cruel" meme, so instead she pays ($14 per dog, per day) for them to go to "kennel club" while she's at work

>kennel

she pays to have her dogs crated somewhere else because crating them at home is too mean

>>2201117
Having an open crate or house they can freely go in and out of isn't the same as crating your dog dummy.

>>2201120
How the fuck are other people the lazy ones? You're forcing your dogs into a cage because you don't have the resources to take care of it.

There are other reasons for crating other than keeping your dog in one while you're at work.

Moving houses, evacuation for storms, car rides, potty training new dogs, crate rest for sick dogs. It's worth it to crate train in case your dog needs to be crated sometime in the future.

>>2201126
Potty training makes sense I guess. All others are outside scenarios.

The reason 99% of people crate train is so they can keep their dog in cage all day so it won't mess up their sofa.

I just don't think people without land or large families should own dogs. Why is it people feel entitled to own one just because? You wouldn't get a horse just because you have some room for it.

>>2201129
Why without land? Most dogs can be very happy without land as long as they're taken for walks and played with.

>>2201121
Why do you think the dog willingly uses the cage anon? It's because it was crate trained as a puppy. You're right I did enjoy the convenience and piece of mind knowing the dog had a place where it couldn't hurt itself or anything else during puppy stages, whether I was home or not.
It aided in housebreaking as well. Now.its a convenient place for the dog to escape to, all benefits of crate training, a useful tool for any dog owner. Just because you use a crate doesn't mean you have to lock your animal up for hours.

>>2201091
How has the baby industry managed to convince people that cribbing is actually good for babies?

>>2201137
babies are put in cribs because parents get tired and need to sleep sometimes.

>>2201139
So abusive

>>2201137
I know this is a shitpost but there are benefits to co-sleeping with babies. People are just worried about babies getting crushed/rolled over. But it does decrease the likelihood of SIDS and they're less likely to cry, etc.

When I adopted my dog (puppy then) I tried crate training him but he would just cry. I just gave up after 3 days and he was almost instantly house trained.

My sister's dog (little shit pomeranian) had problems shitting and pissing in the house. This improved after she stopped crate training.

I probably won't try crate training my next dog. I don't see any real benefits from sticking them in a cage. The best thing is to train your dog with love and compassion; not throwing it in a cage or shoving its face in shit, etc.

>>2201091
I think the pet industry has convinced people that they need to micro-manage their pets and worry about these topics as much as possible in order to capitalize on it.

>>2201308
>Using a crate as punishment
No fucking shit it didn't work for either of you mouth breathing morons.

>>2201326
The crates weren't used as punishment.

And it begs the question why anyone would crate in the first place. I only crate trained briefly because that what other people were doing before realizing its pointlessness and possibly inhibiting other kinds of training.

So I ask you, what's the real objective of crate training a dog?

>>2201091
Is this a real thing? I know a lot of people with dogs including my parents that were breeders and have never heard of anyone putting their pet in a fucking crate except when they have to go the vet in some instances (only small dogs).

Dogs are not people, they are dogs. They are my property, and you are 100% correct that I will make them do things that they don't want to do for my convenience. This includes things like force-feeding them medication, preventing them from eating the neighbour's children, stopping them from shitting just anywhere, and yes, putting them in a crate.

It is a dog, I am the owner, and I will make the decisions about what it can and cannot do.

>>2201373
a lot of people do this actually. I wouldn't say most dog owners but a lot. I don't quite get it either; my dogs have been perfectly fine in the house outside of crates when we are gone. If you bother to train the animal it won't destroy your house.

>>2201365
>So I ask you, what's the real objective of crate training a dog?
Being able to put them in a crate without having the cry continuously?

>but why do I need to put muh dog in a crate
Travel, is one. If it becomes dog or person aggressive and you need to let a tradesman into the house, for two. Literally any time you want to separate your dog from something.

>>2201386
>Being able to put them in a crate without having the cry continuously?
but why put them in the crate in the first place

>Travel, is one. If it becomes dog or person aggressive and you need to let a tradesman into the house, for two. Literally any time you want to separate your dog from something.
Maybe train your dog not to attack people dumbass

>>2201392
>but why put them in the crate in the first place
Use your brain. I'm sure you can think of a time where it would have been useful to crate your dog.

>Maybe train your dog not to attack people dumbass
What if your house gets burgled and one of the niggers stabs your doggo and he recovers but now goes ballistic any time someone is on your property and, while you're training him back to a good standard of behaviour, your bathtub explodes and you need to get a plumber?

>but that would never happen
Probably not, but I could make up a billion scenarios that would "never happen" individually where you'd want to crate your dog, but at least one of them probably will eventually.

Literally any time you want to separate your dog from something is a good time to crate your dog.

>>2201382
Guess it's just another thing that shitty owners do.

Why do you even try to care when you really don't. Fuck shitty owners.

>>2201397
>anybody who isn't an obsequious servile slithering wreck of a human being is a shitty owner
Why is it always women who don't seem to understand that dogs obey and people decide?

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>>2201396
>being this buttmad
You go from railing against crating as punishment, then exactly using crating as punishment. Instead of finding a justifiable reason for crate training a dog, you sperg out like a true autist.

Congrats. You're a shitty pet owner and I hope you're euthanized so you can't spread the autism. Stay buttmad.

>>2201405
>if you crate your dog to prevent it from mauling people that's using crating as a punishment
>instead you should let it maul people!!!
Women.

Crating a dog to prevent bad behaviour is not a punishment for two reasons
1. because it hasn't actually done the bad behaviour, so how could it possibly in any sense of the word be a punishment you dumb bitch?
2. because a crate-trained dog doesn't see crate training as a punishment even if I tried to use it that way, and it should never see being crated as a punishment because crating a dog should be a happy affair for the dog with treats and nice things galore.

Sounds to me like you failed to crate train your dog, by your own admission, and are projecting your failures onto everyone else. Chuck a chewy treat in their and a comfy blanket and the dog will be fine for an hour or so while the plumber unfucks the problem.

>>2201412
>I'm not a shitty owner because I can't train my dog to not maul people
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

stay buttmad

>>2201415
>i'm a woman who is incapable of arguing logically and instead obsesses over a hypothetical which, by its own nature, is imperfect, and in the lack of a perfect hypothetical I will just sit and scream and shit myself
Okay.

In every dog's life there are times when it needs to be separated from something.

Crate training allows you to do this without distressing the dog.

You failed to crate train your dog, meaning that when you need to separate it from something you are going to distress the dog.

I did not fail to crate train the dog, so when I need to separate it from something I will be able to do so without distressing it.

I am a good owner. You are a shitty owner. Do not bother replying from this point on - I certainly won't.

>>2201424
>doesn't train his dog to not maul people
>spergs out and resorts to attacking women instead

now we now you're both an autist AND a virgin. Congrats on the DDIQ. At least we know you won't spread your sperg genes so the world doesn't have to deal with retarded children.

>>2201412
Your misogyny is showing.

Obviously you just feel guilty for locking your pet up for 8+ hours a day. No one is saying that crate training is bad. They are just saying that people who lock their dogs up all day just because they can't be bothered to train them not to destroy furniture are bad owners.

>>2201365
>The crates weren't used as punishment.
>Equated it to sticking their nose in their business
Yeah, sure. Totally.

>What's the real objective of crate training a dog?
1. It gives them a safe place to be when you are gone. They cannot get into trouble. They cannot get into things they shouldn't. It's a great way to ensure your dog is safe while you are out of the house.

2. It gives them a comfortable place to call their own. If you crate train a dog well, then they can really enjoy being in their crate, and enjoy the safety and security it gives them.

3. Travel. A crate is the safest way to transport a dog in a car.

4. Kenneling. Having to kennel your dog is a reality. Be it because you have to go on a vacation, or they need to stay overnight at the vet, your dog being accustomed to staying in a crate can make this already stressful experience a little less bad.

5. A way to get them out of people's hair in your home. If you have maintenance people in your house, it may be desirable to them to have your dog out of their way. The crate is an excellent way to make sure your dog can stay confined in the home if ever necessary.

>>2201431
>advocate crate training instead of teaching your animal to be comfortable, non-destructive, and non-aggressive in your own home
kek

please kill yourself to relieve the world of your DDIQ

>>2201430
>No one is saying that crate training is bad
Actually, the OP says that it is. And he puts no limits on his statement - he makes the blanket assertion that all crating is bad, all the time.

Anything other than this interpretation is you shrinking the grounds of the argument so that you have a more defensible position, which in the real world is what we call "knowing you are wrong without admitting it to save face".

But congratulations on your attempt to reframe the argument in a way that allows you to be correct - it might have worked, if I was as fucking retarded as you.

>>2201435
He also can't be bothered to dog-proof his home. He's worried that his dogs aren't safe in his own home? Sounds like an irresponsible owner to me.

I never really had an opinion on crate training before this but it seems to me that crate trainers just don't want to properly train their dogs.

>>2201436
I read through the thread and everyone who is against crate training seems to just be against those who lock up their dogs all day. And none of the crate trainers have bothered to dispute this.

>>2201439
>I read through the thread and everyone who is against crate training seems to just be against those who lock up their dogs all day
Then they should find a different thread, because that's not what this one is about. If you love reading so much go back and read the OP, you stupid cunt.

>And none of the crate trainers have bothered to dispute this.
It doesn't require dispute for two reasons. One we've already gone over, and two, the circumstances of dog and owner are complex and I don't think anyone here feels like explaining their living conditions in three posts to a bunch of dumb fucking jackals who are ideologically opposed to them no matter what the situation and who argue at a third-grade level and are inured to even basic concepts like "reading posts before replying to them".

I could write you a fucking essay, a very plausible one, where an owner has to crate their dog for their dog's own safety all day for a period of weeks, for reasons entirely outside of the owner's control, but I'd get a single line of greentext and a pithy insult and then a "BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THE ARGUMENT'S REALLY ABOUT" from stunning intellects such as yourself. So how about you fuck off and go back to getting knotted by your Poodle and leave matters of training to people who can actually fucking train and don't just give up after three days like some incompetent bitch.

>>2201447
I did read the OP. He's obviously talking about neglectful assholes like yourself who lock their dogs up all day.

>>2201450
>He's obviously talking about neglectful assholes
Quote the exact words where this is "obvious", you dumb slag.

Protip: you can't. You're choosing to interpret that way because it's the only interpretation that allows you to schlick to the thought of being right on the internet.

>>2201447
If you actually trained your dog, you wouldn't have to crate it all day. The only people who crate are those who are too lazy and/or neglectful to train their animals.

>>2201435
>implying my dogs are aggressive
>projecting their shitty dog ownership this badly
TOP FUCKING KEK

>>2201438
I own cats. I don't trust my cats around the dogs, nor do I trust my dogs around the cats. There are literally zero incidents when I am home between them all, but I would prefer to be unequivocally safe than sorry.

I take my dogs for a 30 minute walk before I go to work, the apathetic dog gets a 3 mile jog. I give them water and a Kong in their crate. I come home for lunch every single day, thus they are never in there for more than 4-5 hours. They go in their crate when asked, and are perfectly peaceful in there, and don't destroy the beds and things they have in their crates for comfort.

>>2201453
>If you actually trained your dog, you wouldn't have to crate it all day.
Yes, even the dumbest dogs are easily taught the concept of electricity and live wires. I've heard that German Shepherds can even get journeyman certification as electricians if you try hard enough.

>>2201459
Do you just let your dogs chew on wires? Is that normal for you? What a terrible owner.

>>2201455
They're aggressive enough that you don't trust them to be outside of a crate without supervision..

>>2201478
>still projecting

>>2201481
You're the one who can't trust his animals outside of a crate when you're not home. Trained dogs don't need to be crated when not supervised.

>>2201098
We get it you don't care about your dog enough to train it not to fuck up your apartment. Got it.

>>2201478
You shouldn't trust any dog unsupervised with any animal small enough not to be able to fight it off.

Anything else is foolhardiness.

>>2201484
So you just suck at training your dogs. Gotcha.

>>2201487
24 months later you'll be crying because your dog killed your cat even though it has no history of aggression whatsoever.

Happens all the time.

Enjoy your pet while you've got it you retard. Dogs are animals, and animals are unpredictable.

>>2201484
If you can't trust your dogs around your cats, that simply means you haven't bothered to train your dogs.

>>2201488
Cats are shit-tier pets so I'd never have one. The only dogs who are killing their owner's pet cats are ones who haven't been trained.

>>2201489
You cannot trust any dog around cats.

It's not a matter of my dogs versus your dogs. Any dog, and every dog, cannot be trusted around smaller animals.

/an/ is full of the wilfully blind who treat animals like people or, even worse, think that they behave rationally. You know why well-trained dogs don't eat cats? Because people smart enough to actually train their dogs well are smart enough to not leave their dogs unsupervised with smaller animals.

And I don't think I'll be taking training tips from people who give up crate training their dogs after three days because it's too hard anyway. That's the biggest irony. For advocates of good training you people seem literally incapable of actually doing it.

>>2201482
Guess I just suck at training dogs.

There's your reply. I'm off to watch TV with my dogs some. Have fun with your thread.

>>2201492
>I can't train my dogs so I'll just say all dogs can't be trained.

>>2201483
I care about her deeply and she's well trained.

>>2201129
>I'm the only one good enough to have a pet

>>2201365
So it doesn't freak in the car, the vet, or at a show.

>>2201489
>anon owns a Labrador, Shih Tzu or something else with shit prey drive

>>2201652
>anon is a shit owner who can't train his dogs so he neglects them instead forcing them in tiny cages for hours at a time

>>2201489
You can't train prey drive out of a dog.

>>2201654
If you can't train your dogs to not attack the cats, then you shouldn't have one or both of those animals. You are obviously not capable.

>>2201657
Impulse control can be trained, but you can never guarantee that instincts won't take over while you're not there to supervise.

>>2201653
>you can just "train" a malamute not to eat small animals
Sure, maybe if you're prepared to sacrifice a few of the neighbour's cats while you try and get the lesson across.

>>2201653
My dogs are kennelled not crated while I'm out. If I ever get a cat I am sure as hell not leaving it alone with a pack of PRTs/JRTs/other terriers. Also the fact that terriers should not be left loose in anything other than opposite sex pairs.

>>2201687
1) why keep it outside unsupervised?
2) why are they keeping their cats outside unsupervised?

>>2201696
If you can't keep your dog from attacking smaller animals when it's not around you, then the solution is to not keep it around smaller animals. Not to lock it in a crate/kennel just because it's more convenient than actually being a good owner.

>>2201754
Why are you so very convinced that a dog needs the run of the house 24/7 or else a person is a bad owner?

>>2201760
Dogs aren't meant to be caged. Just because you're lazy doesn't mean your poor dog deserves that.

>>2201754
>instead of putting it in a cage that size, you should lock it in a cage this size
Nobody has a property big enough to replicate the natural range of a dog unless you live out in the...

hang on, dogs don't even fucking HAVE natural ranges because they are fully fucking domesticated.

So your point is doubly retarded. It boils down to "I FEEL like dogs need this much space," when there are a plethora of perfectly happy dogs with less space, and plenty with more.

Insert a broomhandle up your asshole and leave it there.

>>2201771
How about someone crams you in a tiny cage for hours on end then? I'm sure you'll be perfectly comfortable. After all, it's arbritrary.

>>2201773
But I'm not a dog.

If the dog is happy when I put him in, and happy when he leaves, then why do you think he is unhappy? He loves getting his treats and it's a very comfy place to be. It's not like dogs do anything other than sleep on a chair when their owner is away anyway.

From the posts in this thread it seems to be a substitute for the other types of training

>>2201770
I have a bedroom just for the dogs, but you've already made it clear from this thread that I'm lazy because they don't get the full run of the house when I've not home.

>>2201776
>it's a very comfy place to be. It's not like dogs do anything other than sleep on a chair when their owner is away anyway.
You're batshit insane

>>2201779
As the owner of a home security system I can guarantee you that when I leave my dog out it does literally nothing other than sit on the chair all day and sleep. If I lock him outside he just sleeps in his hammock thing.

>>2201439
I honestly never really gave it much thought until this thread but clearly no crate trainers have been able to articulate why a dog should be crate trained that doesn't boil down to the owner's negligence in failing to train the dog to ensure that it isn't a nuisance. I only crate trained because other people did it and stopped when I realized it was unnecessary.

Kinda weird that people seem to universally advocate for them in that past decade or two.

>>2201800
>stopped when I realized it was unnecessary
More like gave up when you failed, faggot.

Everybody knows you're the same faggot who couldn't hack it after three days, so you can stop pretending.

Crate training is valuable for all of the reasons pointed out in this thread.

>>2201806
>literally the guy that puts his dog in a cage in because it attacks the plumber
turbo virgin autist detected

>>2201809
>literally the soppy cunt who can't separate hypotheticals from reality.

Now that we've confirmed it's you we can all ignore you again.

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>>2201398
>Why is it always women who don't seem to understand that dogs obey and people decide?

How is this relevant to my post? I pointed out that people who lock their dogs in a cage all day instead of actually training them to behave is a shitty owner because of lack of care, you big baby.

>>2201754
What breed of dog(s) do you own?

>>2201139

Animals sleep with their babies just fine. Most people are just afraid they'll crush their baby.

>>2201373

>breeders
>not crating

What? I thought actual breeders were supposed to be dog savvy.

>>2201914
Shitty breeders don't care what animals breed together as long as they have something to sell.

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>>2201492
I leave my dog alone with cats. But my house has 5 different cat door and a saint Bernard is not going to fit through one if a freak incident kicks in her prey drive for some reason.

>>2201800
Same here. So far all we've gotten it "my dog will attack other people" or "my dog will attack my other pets" or "my dog will tear up my house". In other words, they just haven't been responsible enough to train their dogs. I didn't have much of an opinion before this but this thread did it for me.

>>2201995
Being calm when confined after an injury or while traveling seem like legitimate reasons.

>>2202012
Getting them used to a crate is one thing. Confining them to a crate all day and then saying it's "in case they get injured" is just fucking retarded.

>>2201995
>He thinks he can train out instinct
You must be such a good trainer since you taught your Labrador to lie around on its fat boring ass all day.

>>2202020
If you can't train your dog to not attack people/animals then you shouldn't have a dog. if you seriously can't trust it around a cat then don't have a fucking cat. The dog doesn't deserve to be punished because you're incompetent.

>>2202020
But I've done it just fine and I even had cats and birds. Don't project your weaknesses onto others.

>>2202023
Or you could keep them separated and stop trying to anthropomorphize them you silly bunny hugger. What breed do you own oh expert instinct-removing trainer?

>>2202025
You left cats alone loose with birds? That's the most retarded thing I've heard today.

>Raise your puppy since it was 10 weeks old
>2 years old now
>Always crated it when you leave the apartment
>Read this thread
I'm going to be surrendering my dog this week. I've been reading this, and now I realize I am a really poor owner. I feel awful now for giving my dog such a bad life, and feel guilty I mistreated her for so long.

Thank you for making me realize the error of my ways, /an/. Maybe her next owner will give her the life she deserves.

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>>2202027
I must be pretty good, then. They never got eaten. I don't know why you lash out at others like this, though. It's not like I called you a savage for crate training.

>>2201915

Registry registered breeders are supposed to be good and not byb tier.

>>2202060
With what registry? Not that that means anything other than that they bred two dogs of the same breed together.

>>2201091
Not ever crating can be just as bad for a dog as constant crating.

I've taught my dogs to be OK in a crate (in case we need to go to the vet or something) but they are free-run otherwise.

I've seen dogs freak the fuck out and even injure themselves in crates if they aren't use to it.

>>2202065
This exactly. I don't crate my dog daily or even weekly, but it's important that she's comfortable with being crated when it's necessary.

>>2201099
Dog trainer here, as long as the dog is getting the stimulation and exercise it needs, there's not really anything wrong with having any breed in an apartment.

>>2201122
I don't think you understand what crating means, anon.
>>2201129
Until a dog is about a year I'd crate them or keep them in a confined area while you're not home. They're dumb and can hurt themselves.
>>2201308
Crate training is definitely one of the more humane ways to potty training a dog and not even remotely comparable to shoving its face in shit.
>>2201373
It's mostly for puppies, for their safety and potty training. Dogs also typically like having a den and they actually go in on their own to hang out, it's like a dog bedroom.

>>2202080
How could it possibly be getting the stimulation and exercise it needs if it is in an apartment for at least sixteen hours every day?

>>2201650
So you feel that anyone is entitled to own any animal, whether they have resources for it or not?

>>2203403
You act as though tacking an additional few hundred square feet on makes a difference.

The vast majority of backyards are no better than an apartment, because the dog's still not going to be able to build up a head of steam running. Unless you live on acreage an apartment and a backyard are functionally identical. Both allow for the same activities, even if one is a bit bigger than the other. Dogs don't get their exercise by osmosis simply from standing in a backyard. Even if you do live on acreage a dog will still just sleep on your back veranda until you go out and play with it. So long as your apartment is big enough for play - and you really don't need a lot of room to play with a dog - then you can do exactly the same things in your apartment as your back yard.

>>2203428
you can't agility train in an apartment

>>2203433
That's true. Touche.

>>2202063

AKC and similar ones.

Why does no one ever bring up dens?
A dog, having evolved from a wolf, naturally loves a small, warm, familiar and comfortable space.

Our adopted greyhound was crate trained by the owner who raced her and she loves her crate.

She would rather sleep in her crate than anywhere else in the house, and all she does is sleep all day because she is lazy as fuck kek. We brought her an Xbox huge bed and shit but nope, straight to the crate.

So long as your dog gets the excercise, food and care they need, most dogs do not give a fuck about being crated, they like the safe space.

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>>2203604
>implying i'm going to raise some faggot dog that needs "safe spaces"
REEEEEEEEEE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icqPHsNumuU

That's why cats are awesome.

>>2203428
What the fuck kind of huge apartments or tiny back yards are you talking about here?

Why can't people just admit apartment life is likely pretty shit for any larger breed dog?

>>2203604
"Dens" don't have closed bars in front of their entrances dummy.