Are these cruel, /an/? I've been getting a lot of conflicting

My neighbour walks her tervuren shepherd with one and she swears it's a blessing. She always recommends it when she sees me struggling with my dog on his regular buckle collar

>>2140113
>Can't control his pet dog.
What's wrong? Is it that time of the month or something?

There's some evidence that prolonged use can cause cervical issues in the neck and back, I generally do not recommend them.

Overall they are not meant to be a solution--just a training tool--but like most training tools, people slap them on their dogs and expect the the behavior to change with 0% effort.

>>2140131
>I generally do not recommend them.
You say this as if you're some kind of an authority you pompous shit bag.

>>2140137
I train working dogs, I am some kind of authority

>>2140145
I love it when people assume since your anonymous that your don't have credentials to back yourself up... LIke in the aquarium thread, I can't tell you how many times someone has gotten pissed at my advice and said I'm wrong and don't know anything.. Sorry theres not a sign that says I work at the largest fish store in my large city. Besides being in the hobby for literally my entire life.

>>2140115
That's it anon :)

Any dog I've ever met in these were very friendly and behaved so what's up with them? Are they just for excitable dogs?

>>2140149
Depends on how you say shit, though. You can say things in a friendly, helpful manner. I'll assume you say shit in an arrogant bitchy kno-it-all kind of way.
>I work at the largest fish store in wah wah wah listen to my advice I know everything dammit

>>2140377
A good example of this would be bugguy. While I don't believe he deserves some of the shit he gets on here and /out/, I will admit he brings it all on himself because of the way he talks to people.
There are some people, even on 4chan, that need handled with kid gloves. You will never make these people happy, and it's pointless to try. The rest of us should be able to take a little criticism. However when every post you make you come off as a snarky, know it all then you have to understand that the problem is how you talk to people. Failure to correct this is just lazy, and a good indicator that you are probably an asshole.

>>2140145
Yeah, and I train hard working dogs and I think you're full of shit.

>>2140405
Bugguy gets all the shit we he gets because he is a fucking dickhead who wrong most of the time and basically shitposts with his Russian buttbuddy.

>>2140405
if you're having trouble dealing with people outside of your hugbox I'm afraid that the problem is yourself.

>>2140450
>one poster continues to piss people off by talking down to them and just being a dick in general
>this makes you the problem
Lol, ok.

>>2140476
>being offended by people on the internet.
that makes you the problem.

if you want to stay in your comfy trigger culture stay off 4chan.

>>2140405
>I will admit he brings it all on himself because of the way he talks to people.

Speaking as one of "his" kind - this is an autism thing. We have a really, really hard time not coming across as arrogant and know-it-all. We love to talk about things that we are interested in. We go on long rants. And use very unnecessarily passionate wording. Too many adjectives, too much inflection. We state things matter of factly in a way that doesn't leave it open for polite debate.

If I am writing a letter to anyone, I re-read it 3 times and soften the wording because I simply have to or it is way too aggressive. I'm not trying to be aggressive. I just can't stop it without conscious effort.

The first paragraph is an example. I did not edit that. And you can feel me talking like an expert on autism. It is pushy, and direct, and doesn't use wording to soften it like "maybe" or "sometimes" or "some people" ... there is no vagueness. It's just bam-bam-bam.

Anyway, just sayin'. I get bugguy. He's a smart guy. Just genuinely autistic. And that's okay. But you gotta recognize it so you can correct it or you end up with a reputation like he had here.

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>>2140502
that's not it I'm afraid, I just genuinely don't care.

as to stay on topic.
>>2140095
no, they keep snappy dogs in check.

which is great because next to no one actually trains their dog properly.

>>2140095
just get a soft, properly fitting muzzle. that way youre not jerking your dogs neck around.

I got my dog to stop pulling in just 2 walks using a regular collar just by shortening the leash and blocking him if he tried to walk in front or me or across me. It makes for a much calmer dog as they dont have the stress of threat assesment when theyre walking theyre just following you.

>>2140517
this has nothing to do with a muzzle. Why are you even bringing a muzzle up?

>>2140207
Kinky. ;)

>>2140520

The more you walk with your dog, the more they come to an understanding. I will let my dog walk in front, but jerk the leash if start to pull. If he goes the wrong direction or falls behind, I shake the leash and make a little noise (that's impossible to describe) and he comes back to me.

I've only ever used traditional collars with 6' leashes.

I do think a lot of it has to do with the dog. High energy dogs are really not going to cool their shit off until after 10 or 15 minutes of walking. It's just how they are. They might behave, during those 10 minutes, but I'd never use the word "relaxed" .... my dogs are giant breeds with low baseline energy, and even they are a little antsy at first.

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OP here

For what's it worth I have a 10 month old 80 lb Labrador (not overweight, and still growing). The head halter was recommended by the trainer in my puppy class, she's very well trained so I trust her opinion enough, and obviously it's a short term thing to compliment training while pupper and I get our act together. I'm just worried about getting shit from PETA-types when I'm walking my dog, some of the stuff I've read online make these out to be instruments of torture designed by Satan himself

My pupper is gentle and a sweetheart overall, her excitement just amps up to 11 around other people and dogs

>>2140585
Maybe you could try one of the training harness where you attach the leash to the front? Nothing on his muzzle then.

>>2140585

They work great for short term training issues (in particular dogs who have a problem keeping focus). Once dogs get used to them they tend to respond very positively. If you have someone to teach you how to use them properly, I say go for it.

Anytime I've ever been asked, I explain it's like using a halter on a horse and that keeps people plenty happy. No need to go into detail with strangers.

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Front-pull harnesses like Sense-ation are better.

It's also meant to be used all the time, not just when correcting behavior.

>>2140115
not that anon, but my mom has bad shoulders and she really doesn't work with the dog much. he doesn't pull that much for me or my dad, but she really can't control him both because of a lack of effort and because of her injury. However, she does feel safer when she takes him with her on walks. So that's why we have a leader.

As long as it's being used properly and not for prolonged periods I really don't see why it would be cruel. It even seems better than pulling on a collar, as it doesn't choke the dog.

>>2140377
But they did say it in a friendly manner. They didn't do the usual, authority way of 'No these are not good, Do Not use them.'

They simply said they don't recommend them. I think you just read into it wrong.

>>2140095
I can't give you an answer but I can give you my opinion/experience.

My dog was trained to be my shadow. She follows me around and only makes herself known when I am near strangers, (usually unknown men or a few women.) Because of the freedom I've given her, she sometimes doesn't listen when I try to call her off, and she persists and needs to be told a command a few times if I'm telling her to separate from me. (ex: go in your kennel, go outside)

I had one of these left over from my older shepherd. Nothing worked for her except a shock collar but fuck shocking a dog that's only job is to protect the house and be a yard dog. She does her job, doesn't need to be jolted for it.

I tried this muzzle/harness thing on my personal dog and it worked instantly. She didn't like it on her face too much in the beginning but honestly its a god send. She listens the first time I say something. It is a constant reminder that I'm in charge and to be mindful of me. I've taught her to climb, to sit in the passenger seat, bark, heel, wait, crouch, crawl.. none which would happen if she didn't have the mouth harness. She doesn't pull on walks with it on, doesn't pay mind to someone if I don't want her too. In my opinion for the dogs I own (3) it depends on the dog. Two of mine hate it, the other doesn't mind it.