I have so many deeply rooted insecurities and am so emotionally

>>18675429

clean your room?

It is possible to be your own therapist, if you're willing to do the work.

>>18675429
s a m e

Idk man have you tried any of those online therapists? I think they give like free trials, I've been meaning to try it but keep forgetting.

>>18675429
>>18675482

You two should find what makes you so miserable. Usually we have things in our lives that bring us down. Either external or internal (we create rutines that depress us).

Start by removing those things from your life and adding things that make you feel good instead.

Keep believing that and you will sabotage any chances you have. Power lies in belief, so change what you believe.

>>18675480
Sure
>>18675482
No, but online isn't really the same.
>>18675489
>things in our lives that bring us down
I'm just a huge loser but there aren't any external factors, none that I can change at least.
I don't know where to start.
>>18675516
It's not belief, it's a fact.

>>18675593
>none that I can change at least.

Come on, that's a loaded statement. Instead of playing coy, just come right out and tell us what you mean.

>>18675615
My childhood environment mainly. My physical appearance.
As for internal factors, it's harder to determine. Most of them are probably a direct consequence of the aforementioned external ones

>>18675593
>It's not belief, it's a fact.
You FEEL insecure because you THINK you're inadequate. Change your thoughts and feelings (beliefs) and you will act like a person who is not insecure, even if you feel that way force yourself to act like you're not for a while. You will notice that people like you more and you will like yourself more, until it gets to a point that it's not even acting anymore. At least try it for a while before writing it off.

>>18675429
Everyone has insecurities. No relationship is perfect. They all have bullshit.

My wife and i both have problems and there are qualities we have we hate about each other. We have the odd vicious fight.

All in all our relationship is 10/10. Youre human. Youre a piece of shit sometimes. So will any partner you have. Get over it.

>>18675641
>you THINK you're inadequate
And have been led to thinking so by other people. I didn't just come to that conclusion myself.
>force yourself to act like you're not
I've done that. Modifying my behavior is easy but people can smell when it's not genuine.

>>18675636

You are not a child anymore. So you cannot blame that. Right now, you decide what to do with yourself.

>As for internal factors, it's harder to determine. Most of them are probably a direct consequence of the aforementioned external ones

Don't deflect. You are the one hurting yourself right now, not them. Think, how do you make yourself miserable?

>>18675651
>you cannot blame that.
So my childhood had no influence whatsoever on how I turned out?

How am I deflecting anything?
>how do you make yourself miserable
I can't pinpoint any particular cause, I've been like that since my teens. Self esteem and confidence kept getting lower, feelings of doubt and inadequacy kept getting stronger. Social relationships got increasingly difficult and I never really understood them or social dynamics in general anyway.

>>18675666
>So my childhood had no influence whatsoever on how I turned out?

Let's do this with an example. Give me an example of how your childhood fucked you up.

>>18675669
>an example
In my early childhood, being an antisocial fuck.
In my late childhood/early teens, bullying

>>18675650
Stop caring what others think too much. I bet you dwell on every conversation you have. Make it a game to see how easy you can win someone over. Do it for yourself, not other people.

>>18675675
>Stop caring what others think
How do I do that?
Even if I fake it I still get very anxious inside. I got prescribed meds for anxiety but I don't take them.

>>18675673

How is that bullying affecting your life now?

>>18675685
Are you implying that going through that shit as a kid can just be shrugged off?

>>18675429
if you don't have any money and you want a good long term relationship you should probably work on getting some money.

once you have a real income and aren't blowing all of your income (if you even have one) then you can afford a therapist if you really think that's necessary. hopefully you'd do it through health insurance so you don't pay out the ass.

>>18675695
I'm a student. I'll probably have the money for a therapist once I graduate and find a job.

>>18675692

I'm asking you how it's affecting you now. Don't try to get a step ahead of this conversation. Can you answer my question?

>>18675700
How should I know specifically? It's most likely contributed to my problems with anxiety and self-esteem, and the difficulty I have talking to and forming bonds with people, especially women.

>>18675679
Simply put, be selfish. Put your own happiness first and make it your goal to experience as much of life as you can. And never, ever, let anyone manipulate you into believing you owe them anything.

>>18675710
How do I not cross the line between selfishness and being an asshole?
I kind of do that already but it just makes me come off as cold and callous.

>>18675709
>How should I know specifically?

Think man, it's your own fucking life.

>my problems with anxiety and self-esteem

How do you deal with those? When do you have anxiety attacks? When do you feel your self esteem plummet?

> the difficulty I have talking to and forming bonds with people, especially women.

Which difficulty? What happens?

>>18675710
People also tend to like self reliant people more, because they feel like they have to work to earn their respect.

>>18675716
>Think
I mean I can't exactly pinpoint what comes from bullying and what comes from something else.
>How do you deal with those?
I just avoid going outside since it really 'flares up' when I'm around other people.
>anxiety attacks
It's more like constant anxiety whenever I'm outside, which gets stronger when talking to people or when I'm in a crowded place.
>When do you feel your self esteem plummet
Never, it's just constantly between "very low" and "low". It's kind of ingrained in my personality, I don't actively hate myself, it's just constantly there. I've never been a confident person or liked myself for as far as I can remember
>What happens
Either I can't relate to them and end up putting up a boring or cold facade just to end the discussion, or I get extremely self-conscious, wonder what they're thinking, and just can't handle a conversation.
I can talk to guys fine though, unless they're in a group or something. Though I still feel like they're judging me.

>>18675429

What anime is this?

>>18675737
I don't know, sorry.

>>18675713
You can be selfish while also being friendly and warm. Start using a cost/benefit system to evaluate whether or not something is worth your time. Socialising and being friendly almost always is, because it costs nothing and wins you favour with people. After a while you consider those people you like as part of your "self", so your selfishness extends to helping them. That's what you'd call a friend.

>>18675737
>>18675739

Dirty Pair, OP has good taste. But they never look lime that, it's actually Sci Fi

>>18675734
>Never, it's just constantly between "very low" and "low". It's kind of ingrained in my personality, I don't actively hate myself, it's just constantly there. I've never been a confident person or liked myself for as far as I can remember

Are you never happy? Do you never feel good?

>>18675743
>Start using a cost/benefit system
I do that already, I constantly evaluate whether or not things are worth doing. The problem is socializing stresses me out like nothing else and makes me exhausted, so I rarely do it.
>>18675749
>Are you never happy
I get mood swings sometimes.
>Do you never feel good
What does that have to do with self-esteem? It feels good when I jack off, doesn't mean I suddenly learned to like myself.

>>18675758
>I get mood swings sometimes.

How? When?

>>18675780
I mean yeah sometimes I'm really happy but it doesn't last long. Can't really say when, it's very random.

>>18675758
I used to be you so I want to try helping you. Socialising became fun for me when I treated it like a game and became genuinely interested in figuring out what makes people who they are. Basically living like others exist to fulfill my own curiosity. When I find people I like I befriend them, if I don't I pretend to. The difference being that I'd help out the people I truly like, to my own detriment. I'm done here so can only wish you good luck.

>>18675783
>Can't really say when, it's very random.

So what? Are you mentally ill? Is ypur mood not related to what happens in your life?

>>18675791
>Is ypur mood not related to what happens in your life?
I told you, it's irregular. Often when I do enjoyable things I'm not really enjoying myself, other times I guess when I don't have many problems on my mind or when I'm drunk then I feel better.

>>18675803

The only specific thing that makes you feel good you've given me is drinking. Is your life really that empty?

>>18675808
You're equating happiness with feeling good. It's not the same thing.
A lot of things make me feel good but I couldn't tell you what makes me happy

>>18675812

But tell what makes you feel good then. Tell me about something that's nice in your life.

>>18675429
I recommend The School of Life on youtube. i find them personally helpful

>>18675818
Shitposting, anime, drinking, music, reading. Probably a few other things I forgot.
>something that's nice in your life
I'm comfortable. Aside from that there isn't much going on in my life anymore.
>>18675822
Thanks I'll check it out

>>18675826
>Shitposting, anime, drinking, music, reading. Probably a few other things I forgot.

Remember way back up there when I told you about rutine? Well, your is crap. You are lonely and you are not productive. How do you expect to have any sort of self esteem if you do nothing? How do you expect to be comfortable with women if you barely spend time with people?

>>18675832
>you are not productive
I kind of am, I'm learning things and going to college soon.
I used to be productive and it didn't make me happy though, why would it?
>you barely spend time with people
It the other way around. I don't spend time with people because I'm not comfortable with them. I've never been, even in high school when I had friends.

>>18675838
>I don't spend time with people because I'm not comfortable with them.

Really? How many activities have you tried? How many different groups have you tried to be a part of?

>>18675848
Several. I haven't just come to that conclusion by hanging out with one guy then deciding I didn't like it. I'm not stupid.
It's like the "to get a job you need experience, to get experience you need a job" thing.
I'm a huge mess of a person and to fix that I would need to socialize, but I can't socialize because I'm a mess.

>>18675865
>I'm a huge mess of a person and to fix that I would need to socialize,

No, not really. Small interactions don't need a deep connection. You can start small.

>but I can't socialize because I'm a mess.

Again, false. You are not gonna marry anyone yet. Pick a fun hobby and share an hour or two a week with people. You don't need to be a social butterfly to join a pottery class or some shit. As long as you enjoy the activity.

>>18675891
>a fun hobby and share an hour or two a week with people.
Isn't college basically that?

>>18675903

And how us that working out for you? Do you enjoy your classes?

>>18675906
I'm not in college yet, I'll be going this fall. It should be interesting though.
I've had some exposure to the university environment last year too, and yeah, I talked to a few people and stuff but it never went very far.

>>18675911
>but it never went very far.

Don't start a conversation with a goal or expectations. Just have a conversation. If it goes somewhere, great. But most conversations don't go anywhere. Make peace with that.

>>18675919
And from these small conversations how do I figure it out?
I haven't talked to a girl in months but back when I did I used to sperg out really bad and they'd treat me like a creep anyway. That shit is intimidating as fuck.

>>18675931

Were you talking to them with the expectation of picking them up? What did we say about that?

>>18675938
No, just talking, or answering questions, but I still didn't act "normally"
Like when talking to people in general I feel like they're judging me, when talking to women it's ten times worse.

>>18675943

What do they do to make you feel judged?

>>18675973
That's just the impression I get.
And most of the time when I start talking to a girl she seems uninterested and I figure she wants me to fuck off. Or if she does seem interested in an obvious way I can't help but wonder if she's just making fun of me or something.

>>18675981

And we go back to the start. Why do you tell yourself that crap? Stop telling yourself that.

>>18675992
I know it sounds retarded but it doesn't seem retarded when I'm in those situations, and I can't help it. I've never had good experiences with women so maybe it's caused me to become biased, but I never get any kind of receptive or otherwise positive body language from a girl.
I wish I could "stop telling myself" that but it's not simple.

>>18675429

get over those insecurities and quick

>>18676006
I wish I could get over it just like that.

>>18675943

It's not that you're being judged so much as considered. People can't read your mind, so you need to be clear and concise in the things you say. If you're someone like me who has a tendency to ramble you might get sour looks because people have no idea where your train of thought is going.

If people aren't interested they don't give you a second thought.

>>18676003
>I never get any kind of receptive or otherwise positive body language from a girl.

Yet you said just a single post above:

> Or if she does seem interested in an obvious way I can't help but wonder if she's just making fun of me or something.

So you get positive feedback. You just dismiss it.

>>18676008

you can, just without personal bias examine very closely your feelings and keep going until you get to the root of the problem

>>18676038

meaning the root of the problem should still be something you can solve within your control

usually you're hurt by someone so you assume everyone will hurt you, but you're really just hung up on not being able to forgive

>>18676028
>clear and concise in the things you say
Yeah I am. I'm probably too concise if anything.
>>18676034
Maybe. It's been a year since that happened and I never saw her again anyway, so I can't say. But man I pick up on every little detail that could be interpreted as negative and I just run it through my mind over and over until I figure she thinks I'm a weirdo or ugly or whatever and then I just give up.
As you said, even if I got positive feedback I'd just dismiss it, overlook it, or transform it into something negative. I don't know how to fix that shit.
>>18676038
And then, how do I take care of the problem? Because I'm pretty close to being able to examine my feelings in an objective way, but changing them is a different thing.

>>18676051
>but changing them is a different thing.

it always is, you have to figure out your own brain chemistry

>>18676051
>I don't know how to fix that shit.

Stop doing it. You are torturing yourself. You are your own bully right now.

>>18676054
>figure out your own brain chemistry
Well fuck
>>18676056
>Stop doing it.
I'm not retarded, if I knew how to stop I would. It's automatic, I've been doing it since forever and even when I consciously tell myself that I shouldn't be thinking that, it keeps going anyway until I feel like shit and end the conversation as quickly as possible.
It doesn't even have to be a conversation either. I could just be sitting across a group of girls my age and it's the same thing, I get paranoid as fuck and I just want to get out of there. Completely automatic and it happens every time no matter what I do or what mindset I put myself into, I just get called back into it.

>>18676067

>automatic

Find a way. Find good things about yourself, distract yourself with some other shit, count to ten and slap a rubber band on your wrist, whatever. Find a way. Because you are the one doing this. This is you. Not someone else. YOU.

>>18676067

You have to recognize the deeper issues my man, i've personally known people who go through this exact thing and it's their own deeper hangups that prevent them from being OK with themselves.

Just instead of bonding to your emotional outbursts, just watch it as if you're watching a movie, watch your outburst and study it as closely as possible and try to understand how it relates to your sense of expectation and disappointment

>>18676071
>Find good things about yourself
Unironically how do I do that? I can't ask my parents because they'd bullshit me. How do I paint an objective picture of myself and figure out what's good about me? All self pity aside I've honestly tried, and apart from being moderately intelligent I really found nothing.
And on the off chance that my paranoia is actually founded, and I'm an actual weirdo and don't know it?
>>18676073
>the deeper issues
Yeah this is just the surface anyway. It might take years until I'm actually a normal person and by then I'll be a twenty-something KHV who would have just learned how to interact with people while my peers would have a large circle of friends and be moving on to their third, fourth, fifth relationships.
>watch your outburst
I can do that when I'm drunk, it's hard to replicate the feeling of detachment when sober, though.

>>18676101
>I'm an actual weirdo

Even weirdos have good things about themselves. And that was just an example. Find your own coping mechanism. Just start trying something dude.

>>18675838
>I kind of am, I'm learning things and going to college soon.

illusion. college does not make you productive, college is one of the most selfish and consumptive times in your life.

your posts all seem to indicate a really high sense of self worth to the point of passive aggressive arrogance.

How do you view other people in general?

>>18676101
>It might take years

it might also take minutes depending on how determined you are.

You expect something out of others that you can't give yourself, which is the benefit of the doubt

How you overcome that is up to you

>>18676115
>college is one of the most selfish and consumptive times in your life.

not OP but i tend to agree

i wasted time because I had no passion and once I found it I studied it on my own

>>18676106
>that was just an example
It would be a good starting point though, since not being able to find anything good about myself probably says a lot.
>>18676115
>college does not make you productive
Why do you say that?
>really high sense of self worth
How do my posts indicate that? My self esteem is in the gutter.
>passive aggressive arrogance
Again I don't notice that.
>How do you view other people in general?
Mostly as better/more accomplished than me, and not really relatable.
>>18676119
It won't take minutes to unlearn years of "wrong" social interaction and learn the right way of doing things, will it?
>You expect something out of others that you can't give yourself, which is the benefit of the doubt
I don't understand what you mean.

>>18676126
>I don't understand what you mean

You expect people to judge you harshly because in some way you're judging others harshly and can't see it

>>18676134
That may be true, I'm judgmental. But aren't all people like that?

>>18676137

Of course, that doesn't make anyone happy though. What ultimately makes people happy and content in my opinion, is acceptance

>>18676138
Yeah but that comes after, and not always either. But either way everyone judges everyone else.

>>18676140
> But either way everyone judges everyone else

That is true.

Why should this prevent you from dating or being happy?

>>18676143
I don't even think about dating, it's not even an option as long as I don't know how to do basic social interaction.
People being judgmental doesn't make me want to socialize though, because I don't want to be perceived negatively, I guess. And sure, maybe I shouldn't care, but I do anyway.

>>18676151
>because I don't want to be perceived negatively

This is closer to the core I was mentioning. It's not easy stuff to deal with, but it's not impossible.

Ironically when people are younger, they think bullying/teasing each other brings them out of this stage but in many people it just makes things way worse later in life.

We need to be OK with laughing at ourselves, not taking ourselves so seriously or else you block true change.

>>18676172
>We need to be OK with laughing at ourselves
I'm ok with that, less so with others laughing at me if that makes sense.
But it's also partly a self esteem problem I think, because I can't remember the last time I talked to someone who wasn't a family member and didn't think something along the lines of "this person is better than me" (and thus changed the way I behaved because of that)

>>18675429
moving out of spic/black/muslim neighborhoods may help a lot with your security problems

>>18676182
> and didn't think something along the lines of "this person is better than me" (and thus changed the way I behaved because of that)

I don't have a good answer for this because we live in such a status driven world now, i just don't really know..

>>18676193
Yeah. I'm slightly less confused about my situation than when I was when I made this thread but there's still a long way to go. Thanks though.

File: imaom.jpg (42KB, 500x343px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 500x343px

>>18675429
This thread lol, is an exact spitting image of a conversation that has been going on in my head every day for years.

>>18676101
>by then I'll be a twenty-something KHV who would have just learned how to interact with people while my peers would have a large circle of friends
Haha, fuck that's exactly what happened to me. Hey the good news is the anxiety has been mostly replaced by apathy by now, which is not nearly as bad.

There is no answer to this conversation but to distract yourself away from it. If you can help it, don't come to adv again.

>>18676285
So you're saying I should give up?
>don't come to adv again
Why?

>>18676298
Not to give up but to think about yourself way less in the context of social interactions, because you can't change the circumstances of your upbringing, but maybe you can nail this one social interaction better than someone who can't close their own mouth.
>don't come to adv again
Going to college will help with most of what you're worried about just by nature of forcing you to experience more. Reading others opinions only goes so far. I have been coming here maybe the last 2 years and have learned nothing of value. Nothing, except for a link to a meditation video, that is the most I've taken from being here. There are no standards. So it would be better if someone else doesn't waste the time I did.

>>18676353
But it's still useful to work on myself and try to overcome that upbringing right?
>Going to college will help with most of what you're worried about
I'm not sure. It's not an american university, there are no dorms or campus culture or whatever.

>>18676364
>But it's still useful to work on myself and try to overcome that upbringing right?
Yes. I recommend listening to lectures by Jordan Peterson for that. He is a psychologist but what he talks about with the most urgency out of anything, is that simply doing things makes you stronger. It doesn't matter what they are, doesn't matter if you fail, as long as you pick a direction and move. And how the biggest problem with young people is they don't approach life this way.

>>18676384
I had heard about him but thought he was just a meme. Thanks

>>18675429
Take lsd or dmt

>>18676425
Can't get my hands on either, and I don't want to fuck myself up even further anyway.

>>18675489
Not OP but there is no reason or rhyme for my depression
It just started 4 years ago and won't go away
Even if literally everything is fine, I feel like shit all the time

>>18675429
jokes on u, the therapist doesnt have money either >>18675480
best advice ever

>>18675429

you're just oversensitive: take this suggestion...

past and future don't exist. Only present exist. Present says to us that you're oversensitive and when you think about your memories you feel hurt because you're oversensitive, not because you are still hurt.

So, start giving a fuck about all this NOW.

>>18677004
>Only present exist
That's a good way to utterly fuck up your long term decision planning.

>>18677886

Yes, this is the con.