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When is it a good time to start a family /fit/? Me and my gf

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When is it a good time to start a family /fit/? Me and my gf have been dating for five years, recently moved in, and are planning to tie the knot in a few months. We're both 24. We've been discussing seriously when a good time for kids would be as we try to balance working out, work, and social obligations.

So..fathers of fit. When did you start having kids?
>>
Girl at 25
Boy at 28
>>
Don't wait
>>
>>18648137
You already got a place, degrees, and jobs?
Then get to it. Women reach peak fertility at 25 and its all down hill after that.
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>>18648137
Have kids whenever. JUST DO NOT GET MARRIED
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>>18648137
I started seeing my girl at 18 and 6 years later we were living together both finished school and had stable jobs we were abiut to tie the knot and start a family then she gained 40 lbs in one year
DROPPED

On a side not saw her a few months ago shes gained close to 30 pounds since then
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>>18648141
What are the legal responsibilities of the father of a child out of marriage?
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>>18648143
In any civilized country it's roughly the same as if you were married
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>>18648141

Lmao, id rather get married than have kids. Good thing im not gonna do either.
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>>18648137
Real talk, you're always going to have a reason NOT to do it. It's never the perfect time, but you seem like you're in a good spot, way better than a lot of people who do it anyway.

I'd still say don't rush it. Shit gets hard after you've got a kid, I'd enjoy the freedom for awhile, you'll still be a young-ish parent if you wait until you're both 27 to have a child.
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>>18648137
>dating for 5 years
I'm glad my gf is Asian and we can get married sooner than that. Western culture is fucked.

Gonna have kids ASAP too. At least 3 of em.

t. white 193cm
>>
We had our first this year. I'm 30 she's 31 and we've been together 6 years and have a house together. Things have been difficult but having a child is the best decision I ever made.
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>>18648143
Child support but likely no alimony
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>>18648147
Oh, and 29. She's 20.
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>>18648140
my mom had me in her late 30's so dont be retarded
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>>18648137
>SHOES IN HOUSE
>BEING CIVILIZED

pick one
>>
>>18648137
>kids
>try to balance working out, work, and social obligations.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Kids are the ultimate gainz goblin.
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>>18648137
>shoes indoors

What the fuck is wrong with Americans?
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>tfw 27
>never touched a boob outside the strip club where i had to pay
>tfw thinking about starting a senpai in my state
>tfw never had a gf or been out on a date
Fuck it,I'm goingto go hermit mode and focus on hobbies.
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>>18648151
And yet you're in /fit/.
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>>18648139
this, money is not as big of an issue as you think
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>>18648147
>>18648150
Based.
>>
>>18648154

What do you mean? Dude, we don't subject each other to the nasty sight of fucking FEET all the time. It's rude.
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>>18648155
Holy shit bro good luck
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>>18648157
>>18648139
Don't, wait
or
Don't wait
>>
>>18648137
kids are literal gains goblins. they will devour all potential gains.
>>
I had first two kids when I was 20 and 21. Now they are out of the house, I can chill with the wife and just work on me/we two while I'm still relatively young.
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>>18648159
Do you not wear socks?
>>
You've been dating for 5 years, which means that you wasted your late teens to early 20s. It's time to break up and make up for time wasted.
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>>18648164

Yeah...and walking around in just socks eats holes right into them.
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>>18648166

and its slippery and possibly smelly
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>>18648141
This. Marriage is a government scam. Do a marriage privately off the books if it means that much to you.
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>>18648166
Just clip your toenails
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>>18648167
What
Have you never been into a non shoes household? Of course its not smelly because we take our shoes off. Om the other hand your shoes, socks and fert are so smelly because you never let them breath a bit you uncivilised second world citizens
>>
>>18648151

You're the retarded one.

It's just a fact that with the increasing age of the female, a less physically healthy offspring and various mental ailments increases.. Google it, you know-it-all. Just because you and lots of others turn out okay does not cancel out that RISKS GO UP WITH AGE.
>>
>>18648159

I find it more rude to bring the grime of the outside world into your home, and it shows the basic American lack of respect for everything.

It's one thing to expect your house guests to always remove their shoes, and another for you to be wearing them in your own home. How absurd.
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>>18648171
clearly your mom was 50+ when she had you
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>>18648173

Ouch, burned!
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>>18648170

not talking about me, fucknuts. talking about whoever is coming in my house. how do i know their feet dont stink to high heaven?
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>>18648175
don't have disgusting friends
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>>18648137
Youngin here. My little girl was born when i was 19. Children are great motivation to live longer and be stronger.
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>>18648172

Well, we have mats to wipe our feet on. Also, if the weather is such that you have walked through mud or something then yes, one would obviously take their shoes off. It's not a lack of respect so much as a lack of vain prissiness.
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>>18648153
This is true
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>>18648147
You're child is going to be a brown slant-eyed mongrel who will be short as a tree stump thanks to your wife. But yeah, keep bragging about your height.
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>>18648178

I don't know. I disagree. I feel my home is my sanctuary, so I don't want to wear my shoes in them, the very same shoes I was wearing when I took a piss in the gym urinal and walked all over that place, the same shoes I wore all over city streets, etc. Little mat at the door ain't going to keep that out.

It's like places of worship in Asia you aren't allowed to wear shoes in. It's the same principle. If you respect a place, there are certain ways to honor it. I believe your home should be one. Some hippy neighbors taught me this growing up.
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>>18648152
>>18648154
>>18648164
>>18648167
>>18648181
>>
>>18648154
>>18648164
>>18648166


I honestly think it's a weather/climate/landscape thing. If you live in rural Canada during the winter your gonna make a mess if you wear shoes inside. If you live In la or another urban center with a warm climate you won't be tracking much in.

Up here in canada it's generally rude to wear shoes indoors unless it's summer and just a quick pop by.

When we visit people in Cali it's common to wear shoes indoors
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>>18648180
Chill there, roastie.
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>>18648147

You won't even recognize yourself in your children's faces. Asians are separated from Europeans by about 30,000 years of evolution, except for a little mixing here and there on the border areas and from the Khan's hordes. I will be more related to you than your own children since you are breeding with something that is separated from you from so much evolutionary history.

I have no idea how people can be so deracinated from everything that came before them that they'd do this.
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>>18648185
>comparing pale skinned asians to niggers
I can't tell if it's a nazi LARPer or a roastie, but this is always hilarious.
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>>18648186

All right, dude, it's your life. Here's your future.

PS there are two of us berating you, and a roastie means a whore, I thought, for her roast beef vagina, nor do you have to be a "nazi" to think racemixing is wrong. Throughout the vast majority of human history it was thought wrong, and still is outside of the West.
>>
Better to have them earlier than later. If it turns out well you can have more kids later, but if you put it off until she is in her 30s she can't go back and have more kids. Plus, when your wife is younger her body can recover quicker, and if fitness is important to both of you that is essential. Plus, if you knock out the kids between the ages of 25-30 it means you're empty nesters by the age of 50, and that means you can enjoy the advantages of disposable income when you have more of it, as opposed to enjoying disposable income when you're in your 20s and you don't have much of it.
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>>18648187
what is bad about this picture
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>>18648139
>>18648157
why not wait? it's nothing to do with money, I want to enjoy my life without having a child to take care of. looking forward to fatherhood in my 30s and doing drugs and staying up late in my 20s
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>>18648187
I'm already race realist, lad. I come from Dixie. We invented the one drop rule, and it only applied to niggers.
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>>18648191
>race realist
>breeding outside your race
?????? I have nothing against other races myself, but why ruin the beauty of asians by mixing their gene pool? Same goes for whites. Why would you ruin that?
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>>18648189

The father's genes are basically GONE, and the children look nothing like him. Those are his kids, and you'd have no idea of it unless you were told so.

Europeans are the youngest race, so their genes get swallowed up in mixing by the more established ones from the older races.

>>18648191

You're the race-mixer and also a "race realist?" Do you honestly believe that if the Southerners of the past had Asians as slaves instead of Africans that they wouldn't have prohibited mixing? Or even if they weren't their slaves but just lived among them, they wouldn't?
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>>18648187
you're racist and if you think anything otherwise you're deluded. not being attracted to certain races is fine but if you think people of different race shouldn't breed then you shouldn't be allowed to
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>>18648137
5years ago faggot. You are gay for not having 5children at this moment.
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>>18648192

>I have nothing against other races myself.

Me neither. You basically have two options: actually preserve diversity by respecting and honoring differences, or ruin all uniqueness, culture, and identity, and become a perfect deracinated consumer and "free individual" that the jewish and gentile elites can mold to their choosing. Having lost all established identity from nature and your cultural history, you are now an open book for cultural programming from those with the most power and influence.
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>>18648185
Ugly people make ugly kids anon. Paula Patton is black and her kid came out cute. Likely because both parents are attractive. Same goes here
>>18648187
Two fairly attractive people make attractive kids.

In conclusion: if you're gonna race mix, do it with a qt.
>>
>>18648191
>Dixie
I've been in the south 24 years and none of us say that. Not even the wanna be countrified city boys in wifted twucks. Not the old people. It is 'the south'. That's it. candyass neckbeard gg
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>>18648194
>preserving bird sub species that have different headfeathers is great
>preserving human races is stupid and racist
okay
>>
>>18648171
It's true that risks go up with age, my understanding was they start giving extra tests when the mother is 35 or older. Peak fertility is 20-25 but reasonably fertile women shouldn't really have problems until they get up there to 35.

imo the benefits of settling down with a girl older than 25 far outweigh the fertility losses. Young women are often way too obnoxious for me, particularly the hot ones.
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>>18648196
You do realize Europeans are the result of the racemixing of 3 pretty distinctive peoples right
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>>18648137
My first one at 32, wife 28.

Honestly if I lived a second life I'd start a family at 25-28.

Money is not an issue. Commitment and priorities is.
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>>18648194

Never did I say they "shouldn't be allowed," though theoretically if I had power, I probably would not allow it, just as most states in America had laws for until the '50s and '60s.

I was more pointing out a different viewpoint that this racemixing anon is never (most likely) going to hear outside of a chan, namely that, "Hey, look. If you do this, your children will look nothing like you, and you'll basically be raising some foreigners. Do you really want that?"

It's also child abuse, btw. You should look up sometime all the issues racemixed kids are having in healthcare and also psychologically.
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>>18648137
Boy at 25
Boy at 27
Boy at 30

When you're ready you're ready

There is no 'good time' to have kids, you will get older put it on the back burner and waste your prime years changing nappies instead of being out of trouble by 40.
>>
I'm 40. My gf is 31. We are trying now.
It helps when you're financially stable.
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>>18648196
This. I 100% agree. And even if people race mix...it should be a rarity. It should simply be two people just so happen to fall in love and are from a different ethnic background. It should be small in comparison to the rest of the population, and certainly not some trend.
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>>18648201

Yes, but the common mistake in that line of arguing is that this happened over the course of THOUSANDS of years, where everything could be stabilized since it happened slowly, and it only, for the most part, happened with geographically close neighbors, so the genetic difference wasn't that extreme.

What you have today is extreme and fast-paced. You're in one big soup of an ugly experiment. You also must take into the equation that this is happening only in Europe and the Anglo colonies. Asians and Africans will be fine in a century; all Europeans might not be. If that doesn't bother you, fine. But it bothers me, as I tend to not like genocide by cultural and political manipulation - it runs counter to my sense of what's right and wrong.
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>>18648204
"out of trouble"? obviously you love your kids but can you not imagine a life where you didn't have kids?
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>>18648197

Obviously, but I'm talking about it more on the meta level, meaning what the countries will transform into when they're nothing but multicultural stews?
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>>18648207
Racemixing has been occuring for quite literally thousands of years and will continue to occur until humanity is homogenous. There's nothing you can do to stop it.
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>>18648210
this is the intelligent answer. everyone else is not looking at it scientifically and needs to put their prejudices aside
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>>18648210
>>18648211
But it's the worst case now. Whites are going to be extinct in 100 years, was it a case before? No? So shut the fuck up (((friends)))
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>>18648210

Question: Have you or have you not studied what those in power are doing with their power? By those with power, I mean those with the most cultural, media, and financial influence.
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>>18648198
You can go back any time, carpetbagger.
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>>18648212
>whites are going to be extinct
if you haven't accepted that you're a racist by now you need to check yourself. i know people in the world like you exist, and obviously you think you're right, that's how opinions work. but please don't deny that you're racist. you have to come to terms and accept this at least.
and yes, it was still the case 100 years ago. we were just at a different point of the trajectory that is all races homogenizing
>>
>>18648215
I don't care about others, so I am not racist, just stating the facts. But obviously real science is racist and (((your science))) is the one everyone should follow, so yeah.
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>>18648212
There are nearly a billion whites, the hyperbole is unnecessary. In the long run, everyone will be "extinct". How long do you think this tiny planets distinct languages, cultures, and ethnicities will remain distinct? It is the natural consequence of technology enabling the world to become a much smaller place than it once was. In a few short decades it's likely humanity's evolution will be intimately tied to technology let alone your fears of racemixing. We'll all be brownish cyborgs.
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>>18648215

Wait, do you really think calling someone a "racist" has any actual meaning? Holy shit, I heard people like you existed, those whom could be controlled by a single word, but I never thought I'd see one on a chan.

And neither you nor I know the future. The jews and capitalists may win in the West, and succeed in turning us into Brazil, with the rich lording over a swarm of masses. But I hardly see this happening in Africa's booming billions, or China, or India. These places will remain unique. Your world vision is happy-feeling cancer.
>>
>>18648192
>>18648193
I'm race realist in that I know races are different, and some are lesser, like niggers. I consider Asians to be equal.
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>>18648219

Okay, but if you know that multiculturalism eventually will kill off whites, why knowingly contribute to that process? You're just being a good goy in the end.
>>
>>18648142

> wew

dodged a fat bullet there senpai, wp
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>>18648219
Or how about all races are "equal" and different. We should maintain diversity by NOT shagging the first chink pussy that gets flung our way. Seriously, what the fuck is so difficult to understand with this? Let me guess..you weren't good enough to get a white girl so you went with a gook.

Enjoy your Manlet sons and Elliots.
>>
As soon as you can afford to feed a few more mouths and pay for 4 holidays a year.

Intelligence people have less kids because they are always taking into account uncertainties and all of that.

I'd say if you can afford the holidays and extra food (and bigger house) go for it.

Ofcourse the housing crisis doesn't make it easy on the low birthrate statistics. Come to think of it, its probably why its so low.

Meanwhile Ahmed is perfectly find creating offspring with his biological birthing chamber wife whilst claiming the benefits.
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>>18648137
depends what you want out of life.
Children are hard work, people who did the whole child-thing in their mid to end 20s are later glad they had the energy for it.

However, I also see many people who, once the children are about 8, end up moving their own way in their mid 30s, 40s. People who start with children in their 30s tend to be more settled and accepted "play time is over" and chose more convincedly for their partners and children. But they end up older and more tired trying to struggle through the child-raising. While the earlier people tend to mingle again socially for another decade.
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>>18648171
>RISKS GO UP WITH AGE
Only with pleb-tier genetics
>>
>>18648137
>When is it a good time to tie a financial and emotional burden to your neck for 18+ years, kiss your youth goodbye and significantly limit your future life choices?

Never. I'm not trying to be edgy or anything, but the costs (literal and figurative) of bringing a child to this world are enormous and the rewards are pretty much nonexistant.

If you really feel this strong need to replicate, which I don't share but kind of get, at least don't get married. No matter how much in love you think you are, there's some 50% chance of divorce and some 85% of soul crushing misery down the line.

I'm 35 and I had 2 really serious girlfrieds that I lived for 4 and 5 years respectively. Boy, are we all happy we didn't get married or have kids. And whenever I meet my old friends that are now married with children (which I don't very often since we have pretty much nothing in common at this point), they all look 15 years and seem to be in badly disguised Al Bundy tier misery.
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>>18648153

My kid didn't affect my schedule of 2 days of lifting a week.
>>
>>18648216
>>18648218
>not being able to understand trolling
never change fourchannel
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>>18648228
4chan is infested with redditrash nowadays so I can't tell for sure.
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>>18648142
What a dumb ass doesnt she know that you can only gain the weight AFTER marriage??
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>>18648150
Thats actually not weird at all peak male attractiveness is at 31 while women peak at 21 so you guys are at the exact right ages
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>>18648147
Damn right, just got myself an Asian qt gf as well. Can't wait for those comfy family gains in a couple of years. Also white and Asian mix kids look nice so I'm not worried.
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>>18648181
Sage.
>>
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>>18648181
>>18648233
As in wise I mean
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>>18648215
why do humans make huge efforts to save rare species of any other animal but themselves?

anti racists never stop to think : "why am i so violently opposed to whites doing what every race and species have done for the history of the universe and which i support in every species except whites"

its so blatantly propaganda, just like "all blacks are criminals and stupid" but since your teachers have been saying it for years its all of a sudden an obvious truth that others should be punished for disagreeing with
>>
>>18648139
>Don't wait
I'm 28, shit job, working on improving my physical body, why should I get married as soon as I can? At this rate I may get married at 45, I'm way too far behind on the things I want to do like travel to yugioh events.
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>>18648189
Nothing
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>>18648137
When you accidentally knock up your girlfriend obv
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>>18648137
First kid at 23. Next one at 26. Last one at 30. I'll be 31 next month.

Didn't plan for any of them, but my pull out game is weak AF. Same mom but she's strung out on crystal meth now, I raise them all by myself.

Still find time to lift 5 days a week. And since I'm /fit now I pull way hotter bitches than their smoked out mom. She used to be really hot too.

Surprisingly, I thought having three boys would be a cockblock. Au contraire. Apparently chicks love a single dad with big muscles.
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>>18648137
>marriage
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*breathes in*

ENJOY INDENTURED SERVITUDE DUMBASS NORMIE BLUEPILLED HILLARY-VOTING MOUTHBREATHING KEK
>>
>>18648190
Because, assuming you have kids with a woman near your age, her reproductive system is going to be pretty bad due to age and your kid will come out with a whole heap of health problems.
Women are at their peak fertility very very early compared to men. Their ovaries start drying up resulting in fucked up kids.
Your plan isn't bad if you manage to marry a young sheltered girl who wants to be a mother in her early twenties, but the only place to find those are in churches, and good luck explaining to her that you spent your entire 20s fucking around and drugging it up.
>>
>>18648138
Finally someone agrees with me.
>>
>>18648239
>Apparently chicks love a single dad
They see commitment. Sons are the best pussy magnets.
>>
>>18648137

Let me just say...hahahahhahhahahahahhahahahhahahahahhahahahahahah....

You are pathetic. Say good bye to your money and your bitch will cheat on you within 12 months of moving in with you. Jesus Christ your a dick head.
>>
>>18648147
>t.Elliot Rodger 2.0
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>>18648239

Jesus christ there are a lot of losers on this board.
>>
>>18648137
24, so started dating at 19

unless she heavily rode the dick carousel before your in for a divorce
>>
>>18648215
You'll have blue people with red eyes running around before any "race" of humanity ceases to exist. Both sides of the race discussion omit science and personal preference.
>>
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>>18648194
Nice simpleton mind you have there. You sure do know what you're talking about
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>>18648194
>You're racist!
yeah, and?
>>
>>18648215
is this your first day here?
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>>18648244
Fuck off, Yankel. Your constant attempts at undermining social fabric for your own dirty kike purposes will end up being your own demise.

The Arabs hate you, most of the world hates you, you've been expelled by every civilised society your filth had found its way into.

Now you're desperate to take revenge on the only nation that gives you a place to enact your shitty schemes.

Your time is coming again in due course. Nobody ever truly wins.
>>
>>18648194
Darn I guess I'm racist. Oh no...
>>
>>18648137
>>18648153
>>18648162
fucking never because children will drain your bank account, your free time, your gains, your relationship, and your happiness. I'm not about that life, and you shouldn't be either.
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>>18648194
Lel fag
>>
My wife and I met when I was 20 and she was 19.

Married at 27.

Bought a house at 29.

Baby boy when I turned 30.

Baby girl when I turned 32.

We're probably done having kids.
>>
asking people when an appropriate arbitrary age is to produce offspring, is so 4chan. it speaks volumes about your insecurities and conditioning by society to have achieved certain goals by a certain number of years on this planet. cant you think and decide for yourself?
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>>18648137
Do you want to have enough energy to play with your kids? Don't wait.
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>>18648194
Thanks shlomo
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>>18648180

>>>/pol/
>>
>>18648260
>>>/tumblr/
>>>/Reddit/
>>>/gas/
>>
>>18648147
Marrying an Asian is settling imo
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>>18648254
You're 18, you'll change and laugh at these thoughts 10 years from now. Everybody else is laughing already.
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>>18648187
His daughter on the right is going to grow up to be a stunner.
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>>18648252

I'm not a yank, you fool. I'm a 31 yr old Aussie who is not an ignorant fool and I enjoy having all my money and time for myself and not giving up my freedom for a piece of paper. Marriage in the eyes of the law is just a method of which they can keep eyes on people and know who they can drain resources from forever.
>>
>>18648239
HAHAHAHAHA
>>
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>>18648137
Just had my first 5 days ago. I'm 28. I've been with my now wife for 10 years. You have to both be on page, have your emotional shit worked out (no crazy bitches) and obviously both want the same thing. Once you believe you are ready DON'T wait for the perfect time because you will always make excuses not to have one

Pic related
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>>18648237
>>18648189
>>
>>18648267
That's great my dude, happy for you.
>>
>>18648265
You're still younger and less experienced so I give no fucks about your cynical views.

Your choice of partner and you doing lack of strength of character were your failure.

I guarantee you your perceived freedom of time and money is the only cogent argument you can raise because you're incapable of having a successful relationship.
>>
>>18648267
Why did you decided to bring a child into this world when there are children starving for affection and love from anyone in the orphanage. World is over populated already, and people are still popping out kids knowing that it's not benefiting anyone, only selfishness.
>>
>>18648137
The earlier you have kids, the more impact they have on your short term finances, but the later you have kids, the more impact they have on your empty nest finances.

Also, after the third child, the per-child impact on your finances falls off greatly (barring misfortune in health, etc).

And being young helps with the energy level you need to deal with the limited sleep, etc, that young children cause.

So don't wait unless you think whoring it up in the short term is the most important thing in your life.
>>
>>18648271
>children starving for affection and love from anyone in the orphanage.
That's not the fault of his/her genes.

Other people having children they cannot care for should never be part of your consideration when deciding weather or not to have children you can care for.
>>
>>18648273
>should never be part of your consideration
Why, this guy literally contributed to over population by shitting out another unwanted number of humans. It's affecting all of us. over population is the number one cause of every issues that we have on earth, he and his woman shat out the thing knowing all of this, knowing that children are in the facility, crying for love, over population wrecking the economy and the world and more global warming to come. Absolutely meaningless. Admit that they did it out of selfishness.
>>
>>18648271
Raising another man's kids is beyond pathetic. Literal cuck tier.
>>
>>18648275
And you think adding more stress on the biggest issue we have to the world is better and so hip and hop? I swear humans get dumber by the days go by, so stuck in the old timer ideologies.
>>
>>18648275
Tell me one good reason why anyone should be shitting out a problem that affects us all. and IS affecting us all right as we chat.
>>
>>18648147
>that post
>that reddit spacing
uhh lol? your kid is going to be 5'8" tops LMFAO
>>
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>>18648271
1:I am relatively privileged from economic standpoint, I can afford it.
2:Adopting in extremely hard in my country
3: Overpopulation is only a relative problem to the country you live in.

A solid family bringing a couple of children into a good home with a good education is different then a poor Pakistani family popping out 3 girls to sell as Fuck dolls to 50 yo men and giving their other 2 boys to be an Islamic extremist school.

Over population has to be tackled by introducing contraceptives to 3rd world countries and changing the perspectives of the poor through education.....not by calling privileged people in 1st world countries 'selfish' for starting their own family.

Clean your room anon!
>>
>start tracing family history
>once you get a number of generations back literally every woman had kids from 18ish to 40+
The whole 'every kid after the woman is 35 will have downs' is massively over stated. Ideal time is once you've cemented yourself into a good position at work and have a house.
>>
>>18648275
Sure, but I bet anything you're single.
>>
IF any of you can't even give me or even YOURSELF one good reason why you should shit out a kid in an already over populated world, don't fucking have one you low intellect cancerous garbage.
You do realize that IQ passes onto your cancer that you shit out
>>
>>18648282
Go to bed anon. You have school tomorrow
>>
>>18648271
If you're white and from a western country where the white birth rate is dropping and other races are growing, it is your duty to reproduce with a white chick, the kid will likelynot go starving or cause society problems
However if you're from some African or Indian slum and poor as shit then yes do not reproduce as you'll be bringing a child into a life where it doesn't stand a chance.
>>
>>18648282
See
>>18648284
>>
>>18648163
You act like you beat the game but you gave up your entire youth raising those kids.
>>
You guys better be financially comfortable. It's irresponsible to have kids if you're poor/lower middle class.
>>
>>18648279
>I am relatively privileged from economic standpoint, I can afford it.
But the world can't afford it. Do you always think only about yourself? No one gives a shit about what you can afford. I'm talking about something even bigger here.
>Adopting in extremely hard in my country
You can afford many shit but can't even figure this one out?
>Overpopulation is only a relative problem to the country you live in
You don't even know where I live, and second of all, over population affects EVERY ONE OF US. How close minded are you?

>Over population has to be tackled by introducing contraceptives to 3rd world countries and changing the perspectives of the poor through education.....not by calling privileged people in 1st world countries 'selfish' for starting their own family.
You said it yourself, only the uneducated participate in over population. You seem like you have the intellect of a room temperature, meaning you've got some knowledge, yet here you are, agreeing/shat out the problem. You seriously think that it's only the 3rd world that gives birth is the cause for over population? Really? It's the people who shits out problems that are the MAIN problem for over population. which is (you).
>>
I'm slightly surpised from all the guys against a family here. I assumed from a board where the testosterone should be at a healthy range on average there would be more of a interest in carrying out our most essential instinct as men.
>>
>>18648200
>I won't beta provide for a hot used up toastie
>Instead I'll beta provide for an average/ugly used up roastie
>>
>>18648187
Western/azn girls mixed is the fucking masterrace.
>>
>>18648289
People are getting smarter is all
>>
>>18648288
Hey man are you infertile or something (srs) you seem to be very distraught over this.
The fact is like the guy you were replying t said, the 3rd world shitholes that are overpopulating need to be sterilised, all the civilized western countries are actually having less children than in the past.
The strongest people (the ones who live in civilized society's) are essential to reproduce. Otherwise in a couple centuries they'll be outbred and the world will be like one big shitty poor dirty stinky shithole.
>>
>>18648292
Where are you from?
>>
>>18648137
24 is such a young age to get married. hope you've thought this through OP
>>
>>18648293
I'm just being realistic, reality is hard to handle huh. I'm perfectly fertile btw. What makes you think that us humans, strong, weak, poor, rich... etc... "NEEDS" to reproduce? What is our benefit to the world? What makes you think that we are so important that we NEED to keep the population high? Why do we need to create more of us when there are already ENOUGH of us? I get that it's hard for some of you to think of this topic when all of you grew up in an average house hold, lived with people who knew about over population and all, but shat you out anyways out of selfishness and lust. It's already a shithole.
>>
My mom was 19 and my dad 21 when they had me. Not an accident or anything, our culture just has children at a young age (tfw engaged and only 22)
>>
>>18648297
Then your parents would be the perfect example of the people that shits out issues just because they wanted to out of lust and instinct rather than thinking.
>>
>>18648291
keep telling urself that bud
>>
>>18648298

Nice projecting there mate. My parents were married and expecting my sister when my dad was 21 and mother was 19. Been together for 30+ years now with no major problems.

The amount of good goys in this thread is astonishing.
>>
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>>18648288
Trash tier response demonstrating no understanding of nuances of world demographics and how poverty cycles work.

Trying to reduce a complex global problem 'everyone having babies is selfish and stupid'.......

Go to bed kiddo, the adults are talking.
>>
>>18648298
biologically speaking, women should be having kids at approximately 22. Our social structure is, unfortunately, a poor fit for this.
>>
>>18648137
I had my little on at 24, big responsibility but the best thing I've ever done, even if she was a happy mistake.
>>
>>18648296

then kill yourself and do the world a favor
>>
>>18648210
Wrong. The West will eventually fill with sluggish mongoloids and eventually be enslaved by the virtue-signalling elitists to fight their globalist wars for them before the asians take over and genocide them.
>>
>>18648296
But you're not exactly being realistic. The world has enough brown people to be perfectly blunt, but as I have pride and respect for my family I want to reproduce and continue my dna in this world. I used to think like you and was quite alarmed to see the population growth and in my teenage years I thought against having kids thinking it as selfish, but us westerners have grown soft, life IS selfish, that's what life is all about.
After growing up and understanding the world better I can't stand by and let the people of my host nation be overrun.
Essentially you are sparing feelings for all the Indians, arabs, asians etc, and no one else.
>>
>>18648303
Hope you're still with the other half? I wish the best for you and your child all the same.
>>
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>>18648296
> Open objects to having children and thinks anyone who wants them is stupid...

> Claims he knows he is 'fertile'

Why would you go through such a unnecessary medical test to find out your fertility when you hold these beliefs anon?
>>
>>18648275
This

>all these cucks virtue-signalling at him
I suppose there's sterilized betas even on /fit/
>>
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>23 years old
>Literally never been in a relationship before
>Feel like women my age are too experienced/too old for me
>Younger girls aren't interested

Does anyone else know this feel?

I feel like I missed out on having a real relationship, everything at this point is "leftovers" and "consolation prizes". I've lost all interest in having kids or a family, I want to travel the world, make tonnes of money and live life for myself because I've literally struggled my whole life so far and it's shit.
>>
>>18648308
Surely he alt+f4'd after reading this.
>>
>>18648239
Mega kek. Thanks, now my life doesnt seem as bad considering there are cucks like you un the world
>>
>>18648202
why
>>
>>18648310

Yes and no.

Girls 18-23 are casually dating material, not LTR material. They are emotionally immature.

Im working on setting up my business and taking care of myself, so I'll be rich and attractive and still fuck young sloots whereever I travel.


Keep working on your dreams!
>>
>>18648311
Hope so lol. I do wonder where his radical beliefs come from. You'd think someone would understand the difference inbetween a poor African family having 10 kids and western family having 2...

I guess the good news is we don't have to worry about him reproducing.
>>
>>18648289

Because high test makes you want to fuck chicks, not raise families ya dumdum
>>
>>18648315
Myself and others kept trying to explain that to him. It's like he knows all the poor starving people are giving birth like crazy, so he thinks people in the developed world may as well stop reproducing. Or he didn't know that was the case and resorted to stubborn circular arguments when confronted with that information.
>>
>>18648274

>we should totally not reproduce, there is too many of us

>yes we need to help refugees, our pop is low and dying

I swear, I have never seen anything more stupid than american liberals.
>>
>>18648236
>yugioh
Don't reproduce
>>
The amount of pussies on this thread is fucking tragic. I thought this was a place where people would come to improve themselves physically, and in some cases mentally. Turns out there are a shit ton of weaklings terrified of responsibility. And then there's one guy who seems die hard intent on proving that he's retarded by getting sucked into that overpopulation myth and defending it to his last breath. If you're gonna be strong, at least stick with it and bear your damn burdens. Also op, what are you waiting for, if you're a strong and smart man you should be wanting to pass on your genes. Read books on the subject of raising kids as well, the last thing this world needs is more kids with good potential growing up failures
>>
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>>18648310
Yeah 20 soon and still virgin.
0 regrets tho. Who the fuck would willingly want to take in some parasite who´s only goal is to emotionally (and sometimes physically) destroy you?
>>
>>18648157
says the western cunt. try to live with 200 euro a month, and then pay taxes food and living with that. you tell me dr. economics, how do i support wife and children with that amount of money.
>>
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>been poor AF my whole childhood
>"if you study hard you'' climb the social ladder"
>Been picturing my adult self as a bourgeois for motivation
>BS, 2 M.Sc. and I'll hopefully get my Ph.D. at age 28
>gf will be 30.
I'll have to jump straight from "living with no money" to "spending all my time and money to my family" when the code monkeys who jump out of the uni after the bachelor had few years to hang around spending their salary solely on leisure.
>>
>>18648194
you need to die
>>
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>yes goyim don't have children
>>
>>18648325
where is this from?
>>
>>18648325
Searching for sources of this image only gives back 4chan results (especially /pol/) so I'm not sure if this is not just some weaponized meme warfare material.
Anyway, it's funny to put this image in light with the whole "progressive" trend, promoting gay visibility, childless "stronk wimyn that don't need a man" and more recently voluntary castration of transvestite.
>>
>>18648163
You made a me/we in your underpants.
>>
>>18648143
you're legally not allowed to molest it. morally it's ok because you made it yourself. but legally you could get in big trouble.
>>
>>18648148
she sounds like a cunt.
>>
>>18648194
>This opinion offends my precious world view so you shouldn't have offspring anymore
Can you get any more reddit?
>>
>>18648205
Kek, how does it feel knowing that at best you're going to be 62 years old when your first born will be able to legally drink?
At that point at wouldn't even consider getting kids anymore, but good job on being financially stable and able to pay for the lack of love that your kid will have
>>
>>18648323
Life does not get more meaningful or better when you spend it on worthless junk and shitty experiences that every other spoiled rich kid can make, paying for sex isn't worth it either and that is essentially what flaunting around your social status at parties in hopes of fucking """ prime""" pussy is.
I am barely 21 but I would love to find someone that I could envision being with for the next 10 years even, life sucks when you are lonely and not even bad looking or stupid.
>>
>>18648141
Opposite. Marriage can be divorced. Kids are forever
>>
>>18648321
Nice cope you ugly /pol/tard
It doesn't matter anyway, because you must be a fucking terrible person if you need to validate yourself through arguing away your virginity
>>
>>18648294
/pol/
>>
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>>18648325
>yes goyim, produce more consumer drones
>yes goyim, stay obedient because you wouldn't risk your children's future by doing anything stupid
>yes goyim, spend those hard earned shekels on putting them through education system where we will mold their brains

The problem with /pol/-tier Jew/Illuminati/Crab People conspiracy theories is that you can come up with infinite number of them to "explain" just about anything.
>>
>>18648191
So you're an inbred. You shouldn't be breeding in the first place faggot
>>
Never. We're overpopulated. Don't be so fucking selfish.
>>
>>18648318
100%
>>18648274
You are a joke
>>
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>>18648320
It is summer after all, but thanks anon for restoring my faith in this board.
>>
>>18648333
The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence + opportunity cost.

But on the long(er) run, I get to choose between
>only living my life as a poor student, suddenly becoming a father and hopefully don't raise my kids in a dirty apartment surrounded with violent scums and drug dealers
>Take the risk of leaving my kiddos with a low(ish) life father so I can enjoy my youth more and feel like I tried everything I wanted to try by my mid-30s.
>>
>>18648147

your kid is gonna grow to hate himself
>>
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>>18648320
>books on the subject of raising kids
Aren't these the same tier as tumblr make-up tutorials and "inspirational" self-help books?
>>
>>18648137
It's really hard to give you the "correct" answer, because everyone is different.

For me personally I got married and a kid in my late 20's (that was 3 years ago) and I wish I had started earlier. This is because my wife is 3 years older, and now she doesn't want more kids (just the one).

If I want more kids now (which I do). I need to divorce my wife and get a new gf. I really don't wanna split from my daughter either. It sucks.
>>
>>18648194

I have made yellow fever, I've lived in Hong Kong and Taiwan for many years now. That being said I will NEVER have a kid with an asian. Or if I do I will make sure its a boy.

I will never bring a male hapas into this world, it's just cruel. To curse my son with small height, frame, feminine asian facial features and a potentially small penis is simply unfair.

Of course you are free to mate with anyone but you should about the impact it will have on your children.For example if you mate with a womanlet you're basically cursing your son.
>>
>>18648137
I had a girl at 26 and a boy at 29. It really hasn't impacted my fitness other than makes my workouts more structured since I can't spend as much time dicking around the gym
>>
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>>18648137
>tfw my mom had me at 43
>>
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>>18648187

implying those kids aren't cute

implying they don't love their parents

implying you wouldn't absolutely slam that beautiful woman
>>
>all of thr jealous roasties and incels in this thread
top jej, Asian women must be good if it makes this many people so asshurt.
>>
>>18648137
35-40, for a man.
30-35 for the women. The woman shouldn't go above 40.

>>18648171
Risks go up. You won't be less healthy though. Without complications they're likely to be more intelligent.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19485565.2014.1001887

>On one hand, the findings suggest that giving birth to the first child at ages 30–39 compared to ages 23–29 is positively associated with children’s cognitive and behavioral outcomes and not associated with obesity.

Your common knowledge comes from the mouths of retards. This is an insanely complex issue. You can't simply say shit. Even my own article is cherrypicking because other factors can affect this. Consult a professional !!!

Risks go up, but risk doesn't equal to actual complication. There are screenings. Older parents having more intelligent children is/was common knowledge around 20-30 years ago. Also, an older parent provides better nurturing which correlates with intelligence. Proper early life development is extremely important. A mature women will be more focused on this than fucking chad behinds his husbands back.

Also don't marry if your relationship is younger than 3 years. A good fuck is necessary, but not enough for a lasting marriage.
>>
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If you spend your free time on 4chins arguing eugenics and race preservation then your genes are not worth passing on and it's unlikely you will ever have the opportunity to do so with anyone, of any race, anyway.

Just a fact.
>>
>>18648278
>>18648180
I'm half asian: mom 5'3", dad 6'3", me 6'4".

feels supreme mang
>>
>>18648154
They are australians. And dont hate on tammy.
>>
>>18648141
>what is common law marriage
>>
>>18648147
God I hate crackers that marry asians. Go marry your own kind.
>>
>>18648139
Terrible advice
A child is a lot more responsibility and work than these dyels think
>>
>>18648137
1. Have a job that you like
2. Know that things fluctuate, your gf may be nice now but know that she will be a completely unapologetic bitch to you at some point across the minimum 20 years required to raise a child fully
3. Make sure you have enough experience to raise a child. Whoring and drugging are not experience, they're what normies consider a 'well-lived life'. Knowing how to teach your child how the world works, how to fail, how to win, how to be socially competent in unfamilliar environments, etc. is crucial.
4. The child takes priority. If your wife/gf becomes ugly/annoying, w/e, remember that you're doing it for the child, not for her. Do not flake out just because you find it uncomfortable or just because it isn't the incel fantasy that this site sells you. It's hard work, and largely thankless work.
5. Make sure you know how to discipline other people properly. The use of force, not just sheer intimidation is necessary. Your child will learn how to fight from you, and if you physically can't do that, like if say, they get bullied or if they are bullying someone, then have fun raising a child who hates you.
6. Say goodbye to any other dreams you had. This will be your whole life for the next 30 years and you will officially become a normie. Know that this is what you truly want and that there is nothing else you want to or can achieve.
7. If you're raising your child for political shit like 'muh traditional valuz', enjoy your child hating you once more. You're a role model, not a drill sergeant.
>>
>>18648353
You lucky mother fucker. Do you know where your dad's family originally from?
>>
I always get so angry when I see an asian chick dating a whiteboy.
>>
>>18648356
No. You can have them.
>>
>>18648360
Good. Angry roasties makes my life more satisfying.
>>
>>18648147
kids gonna be a mentally ill manlet
>>
>>18648313
>why

well because having kids make you realize of time passing by. When you end your career or are already in a job you aimed for life goes around pretty much in circles without you realizing it.
My life from 23 to 30ish was pretty much the same everyday. Like a comfort zone loop or something like that. When my first child was born and started growing up only then I realized of that decade loop.

My friends who are fathers have come to the same conclussion too.
After the formative years and up to having your family life is pretty much a rollercoaster: it goes fast, make you dizzy but from someone observing you from outside you're just going in circles always in the same spot.
>>
>>18648360
Good. Your anger fuels my sex life and makes me fuck my qt Asian gf even harder.
>>
>>18648359
west slav. Mother from chinaland and her male relatives are around 5'9", which isn't that short either considering their average is like 5'7".

Granted I may have slightly lucked out, but I think a ~6'1" mean for male offspring with this height-pairing isn't unrealistic
>>
>>18648314
So your dream is to fuck girls.

Keep dreaming anon, one day you may.
>>
>>18648227
>2 days of lifting

That's why.
>>
>>18648366
I'm 6'4" and Chinese gf is 5'2". I figure my kids will turn out fine like you. The bitching people do here is pretty crazy. I can't tell if they are legit jealous or just autistic.
>>
>>18648366
Nice Slavic genes are for some reason superb for height. Both of my parents are Slavic and I am 6'5.

The only thing I am scared of is to end up having manlet children with my 5'2 Chinese gf. Or another Elliot.
>>
>>18648137
Dude me and my wife are 30 and just had our first kid. Waited a little long in retrospect I guess.

If you've got a place to stay and a job, go for it, most beautiful thing in the world!
>>
>>18648141
black man detected
>>
>>18648369
Anglo-Celtic with a small perentage of Cherokee for me, by the way. Ancestors have been here since Jamestown.
>>
>>18648267
Congratulations brother, have fun with the kid. Believe me, it's gonna be awesome!
>>
>>18648284
This.
>>
>>18648369
>>18648370
probably depends on multiple factors, like looking at the males in her family etc. (and if they are from mainland china you need to factor in suboptimal nutrition and add a few inches to their potential height). With that said, the notion that this combo would automatically lead to manlets is bullshit - Elliot Rodger was the same height as his white (jewish) father and not magically half a foot shorter than him.

The guy in pic related (Nathan Adrian) would be an example for someone that became even taller with a similar ethnic pairing (caucasoid + east asian). His phenotype is pretty similar to mine.
>>
>>18648369
Your kids will be fine if they're women. Otherwise expect elliot roger Generation Z++
>>
>>18648369
your son is gonna be so subhuman lmao
>>
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>>18648296
there is not a "world", there is only you and your country anon.
globalism makes you think otherwise.
>>
>>18648147
Same, except manlet. Still feels good.
>>
>>18648241

my mom had me when she was 21 yet I'm an autist that browses 4chan your theory is disproven
>>
>>18648284
This

Overpopulation is only a problem for shitty brown people that the world could use much less of anyway. Whites and asians should be reproducing.
>>
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>>18648381
what's easier to blame anon, a failure of your genetics or yourself? :^)
>>
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>tfw 20 y/o hapa virgin
fucking end me
>>
I had a kid at 14. A little girl. So I shouldn't be giving you any advice.

I had another kid later in life. at 26 a boy this time around. Married the girl while she was pregnant. Life was good fore a while, had a nice house in the suburbs, a yard, a dog and a fireplace. A few years later a drunk driver ran off the road and murdered my little boy. Pinned him to a traffic light. Both of them where dead on the spot.
Life was hard back then. My wife had some mental issues, got some treatment, ended up killing herself. I sold the house, took my dog and moved back in to town. Went full corporate. I had nothing to loose, and life was shit anyway best not to think about it and work myself to death. Worked like a mad man for a bank for about 5 years. Got to CTO. Than the economical crisis happened, some people where layed off. At this point I met a girl. In a weird way, she was just about to be fired but she came in to my office to beg me for help. She just turned 25 out of college with huge loans. I was pushing 39 at the time. You're smart anon do the math.
After a rather long talk, maybe some crying and punching on her part telling me she hates me... We're on good terms now. She lives with me. It almost feels like a real family. Provided shes as incompetent, unreliable and unstable as her mother.
But shes by daughter non the less. At at least she didn't have a kid yet.
>>
>>18648385
Wait, the girl who came to you begging to not be fired was your daughter? And now she is living with you? I don't believe this, but pls go on.
>>
>>18648386
Thats about it.

The point of the story is that life has its ups and downs. But you kick and fight your way in to a decent place as long as you don't give up.

She knew I was her father. I didn't know her. I saw her twice. Once when she was born, and once on a court hearing when she was just a baby. Where I had to explain to the court that I wasn't gonna play child support, since I'm 14 and her mother was 19. I never knew her. I knew her name, but hell, I've never seen 90% of the people who work here.

She knew who I was. But didn't want to call on it until it was really bad.
She lives with me because I have a 2 floor 6 bedroom apartment a 2 min walk away for work. Thats empty apart from me and an old dog who cant climb the stairs anymore. Poor thing. And she was spending half her salary on rent the other half on bills and food. Also I might feel kinda guilty. Her mother's fine, still won't talk to me or her for that matter. Not that I mind.
>>
>>18648387
So how often do you two fuck?
>>
>>18648388
I think she has a boyfriend. I've never met him. But I assume they fuck at his place.

I'm dating a divorced doctor. Shes a bit younger than me, in her 30. So maybe twice a week.

But as to what your implying. No, never.
>>
>>18648190
There is never a good time to have kids
>>
>>18648387
Damn bro, you had it tough. What sort of family did you come from?
>>
File: nathalie.jpg (35KB, 606x528px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
nathalie.jpg
35KB, 606x528px
I'm 30yo. I want a family, I'll start one when I find a qt Missandei wife. I work in animation/video games, a lot of people tell me I'd be a good dad.
>>
>>18648173
he rekt your ass
>>
>>18648207
Your sense of right and wrong runs counter to my sense ofbright and wrong
>>
>>18648286
Thats the game dumbass
>>
Whenever you're fucking ready

But also what the fuck is with that photo, that girl is purely concerned about taking the picture for that detox tea or whatever shit while standing just the right way to give herself the illusion of being a twig while the husband stands there with the baby? Idk if she thinks it makes the audience want to buy whatever she's holding but it makes me want to punch her in the face and let the husband/kid loose
>>
>>18648137
>When is it a good time to start a family /fit/?

When you live in a third world shithole that gives males authority over the family and marriage. If you live in the states you can forget about it unless you want to commit suicide and create a big mess after she takes your children from you. also you might become homeless from the expensive child support and she can get more from you if you increase your income at anytime.
>>
>>18650799
>This thread was moved to /adv/
You missed mod, we ended up in /r9k/.
>>
>>18648185
daugther is kinda cute desu
>>
>>18648137
Whenever you have the finances to support it. If you two are able to support a child now, do it ASAP.
>>
>>18648147
Look here, an emotionally insecure white man settling for an Asian woman, who absolutely has to qualify his "decision" by stating that he is tall, or has a big dick, or has the perfect blonde hair and blue eyes, etc., as if he needs to subliminally let white women (who he is too emotionally and mentally weak to keep interested) know that they're missing out.
Even most women are less desperate for attention and validation than white male weeaboos. It's clear that your father didn't give you enough positive attention growing up.

You are no better the black men who fuck bottom-of-the-barrel white women. Shame.
>>
>>18648292
>"People are getting smarter is all"
When you are on your death bed, with no children with whom to leave behind any sort of legacy, and the entirety of your family tree, memories, wealth, and progress is cut at the same moment as your life support is, that sentence will HAUNT you.
>>
>>18648154

Amerifag here and I agree. No shoes in my house.
>>
>>18648194
>being racist is bad

you're retarded
>>
>>18648276
>old timer ideologies
canadian bait
>>
>>18651464

Who cares, you're dead. You cant take ANYTHING with you. Not money, not possessions, not a legacy or heir.

Its a terrifying thought, but we all only get 1 go around on this earth. And shit like religion or leaving behind descendants is just a method people use to try and cope better with the all consuming void of death that comes for us all eventually. So they feel better about being blinked out of existence in a moment.


Dont get me wrong, I'll probably have kids at some point down the road. But I don't want any right now. I could only see myself wanting kids if my partner really wanted them and I wanted to give her what she wanted. AND I was in a stable position in life to give them a good upbringing.

But I could quite easily die without having any. I've been alone and unnoticed for a long time, and it could well stay that way for a longer time, and it may well be that way on my deathbed. Who cares.
>>
Enjoy your alimony and child support buddy
>>
>>18648387
Sorry to hear about your son and wife. Hope you and your daughter are getting along
>>
>>18648137
When youre ready.

I know a guy who became a dad at 21 and hes the best there is.

I know a guy who became a dad at 28 and hes the fucking worst and i hope his wife leaves his ass because it would be better for his kids.

There is no actual answer. Even studies and surveys dont matter. You are an individual, theres a billion factors, and only you really know.
>>
>>18648137

A lot of people at my job wait until they're in their 30s to start their family. My coordinator actually had his first daughter at 35, and my direct manager had his first son at 32. Everyone has been married for years to the same person, they all waited until they were over 5 years into their marriage to have their first child. Even a few of the women waited until they were in their 30s to have their first child, and one of them has a husband in his 40s.

They are all so fucking happy and an inspiration for me to wait until I'm fully ready to settle down and have a child of my own. They got to do everything they wanted after they were married and explore the world. Travel out of the country, spend vacations in Hawaii, have a road trip to Vegas, as just really discover each others passions and live our their dreams.

Now that they're finally settled, they're all starting families and putting 100% of their energy into raising their child. All of their future trips can be planned around the child's needs because they already took the vacations they wanted. They don't have to worry about who's going to take care of their children if they plan something special. because they already lived the adult lives they wanted.

Enjoy your 20s, and have children in your 30s. When you finally start a family, you want to give your children your full attention and give them the world. You will be an amazing father and your mother will be an amazing wife, regardless of how early or late you have them. Live your life now so you can have time to raise your dream family at your own pace.
>>
>>18648348
Wow. What's that like? Do you have any siblings?
>>
>>18648137
Slow your roll you fool
>>
25. physically it was the right age, because i could live off of 2-3 hours of sleep a night. I can't do that shit now.
>>
>>18651443
>t. hapa with an alcoholic father
Thread posts: 278
Thread images: 32


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