Last week I resigned from a startup (I'm a developer). I

>>18564502

bump, help /adv?

>>18564502
It's just a legal document for fuck's sake.

When I signed my contract to my full-time job, it said I can't "tell trade secrets" either but I've been spouting the sales numbers and profit margins from company sheets just lying around the office to my family members all the fucking time, and haven't gotten shit for it.

>>18564542

It also says "illegally the company's information and industrial-technical experiences". Can it enforce me not to work as a dev anymore for example? I don't think they're this shady but I signed it and now I'm worried.

I should mention it's the first time ever I had to sign something like this.

>>18564542
>When I signed my contract to my full-time job, it said I can't "tell trade secrets" either but I've been spouting the sales numbers and profit margins from company sheets just lying around the office to my family members all the fucking time, and haven't gotten shit for it.

That's different anon.

>>18564558
>Can it enforce me not to work as a dev anymore for example?
Hell no, you can ask the company's HR, but it sounds stupid as fuck. What they mean by "industrial-technical experience" is probably that you can't copy-paste the source code of some stuff the company has programmed on the internets (it could trace back to you) or most likely, can't use it in your future projects/jobs with your name on it.

For example, if you work for Microsoft and develop new version for MS Word, you can't go to Apple and use the code for MS Word to help develop an analogous product. It doesn't mean you can't use stuff you learned to do in your previous job, you can't just copy-paste huge chunks of the stuff you did previously, especially under your full name.

>>18564502

no thats pretty standard, just dont fucking steal their code or talk shit about what that business did.

>>18564591
>>18564606

Man, I feel like an idiot. I could just refused to sign it (but then they'd cause trouble and not allow me to resign because Europe). From now on I'll take home any document I have to sign and read it carefully.

>>18564502
That's pretty typical. You don't own the code you do for them, nor can you take anyone else's code.

I mean, they are paying you to code for them; it would make sense that they own it. You'll still be able to code elsewhere, but you won't be able to just take the coding that you wrote for them.

>>18564628
You are an idiot. Unless they made you sign it at the beginning you didnt have to do it

>>18564645

Yes i am but theyd cause me problems and wouldnt let me lleave. >>18564645

>>18564681
You sound educated enough to make enough money to keep a lawyer on retainer. Seeing your ignorance regarding employment law in your nation, I would recommend that you do this.

>>18564685

I will, thank you. This is one of the stupidest things i ever did. Regardless and ignoring this stupid thing i did, am i ok you think?

>>18564746
Yeah. You're fine. Seems pretty typical. It just means that you don't own the work that you do for them. Keep in mind that if a contract is outrageous, a court won't enforce it even if you signed it. For example, if I had you sign a contract that would make you my literal slave, do you think a court would enforce that?

>>18564751

No but i know little about this stuff.

>>18564784
Well, if you could never work in coding anywhere else, they would have essentially made you a slave. It wouldn't be enforceable in any Western country.

>>18564791

Ok, right thanks. Im also not a citizen of this country and ill move to a different country. Dunno if this is better or worse for me. What do you think?

>>18564800
I'm not a lawyer, but I would say it depends what country you are coming from, and what country you are moving to. The EU has a lot of European countries set up like States in the US. Great, you moved out of California and went to Texas, but that doesn't mean you're off the hook.

If you aren't moving from somewhere in the EU to somewhere else in the EU, the only way to enforce said law is to extradite you to the country you came from, and it would have to be over something pretty bad (like "serial killer" bad).

That said, based off the gist of the contract, it doesn't matter. The way you are interpreting it isn't enforceable in the West.

>>18564809

So basically even if its enforceable if I don't copy the source or some shit, or start a competitor I'm OK? Still very stupid of me and I won't forget myself.

>>18564502
Standard
>don't copy our shit
agreement

Not sure what is your issue with it

>>18564811
Correct. Imagine that a Coca-Cola was hiring you to write an ad. You can't just give them the ad that you made, and then go and sell Pepsi the same exact ad, just with different cans in the advertisement.

It's the same thing regarding code. They are paying you to code for them. Whatever work you do for them is theirs in its entirety.

Anything more than that (what you are worried about) would not be enforcible in Court.

>>18564817

Ok, thank you. I should be OK then, they'd still have to prove what they claim if in the future they'd want to sue.

>>18564628
Wut. Europe has much stronger worker rights than the US. Not allowing to resign? That's ridiculous, no one can force you to stay.

>>18564851

Yeah, anyways, who knows. It was a stupid mistake and I can't go back.

>>18564853
Talk to a lawyer if need be. You can't sign away your rights. The standard non-compete is that you can't just take whatever code you had and copypaste it into your new job or trade secrets. Anything else is just empty threats. Have they threatened you?

>>18564865
>Have they threatened you?

No way, they just told me to sign. That's all. But I'm paranoid as fuck so naturally I worry.

>>18564871
Don't worry about it then. Your signature means nothing in the end. Anything that's not enforceable, will not become suddenly enforceable with your signature.

>>18564681
>wouldnt let me leave.

Literally dont show up nigger, what are they gonna do about it?

>>18564901

Ok, thank you.

Are you going to work for a competitor?

>>18565022

Not now no, but you never know. There are a few competitors even though this is sort of niche.

Man I still can't believe how stupid I was, reading from that paper there was a "I shouldn't sign" moment, but 90% or more was common sense which can be summarized as "don't steal our shit".

>>18565022

BTW 2 years ago some guy who was fired tried to steal all the code and he got caught, maybe that's why they asked...

>>18565037
Unless you do something like that it means nothing. You can't sign away your rights.

>>18565047

Do they need to prove these things tho? Like even if I build a competitor which is similar, is this automatically a done deal for them?

>>18565051
Of course you can't be prevented from using what you learned to build similar things. The only thing you can't do is create an actual copy of the code you have written and then use it. Bottom line is, you can't be prevented from making a living.

>>18564502

$300 is not that much money.

>>18565096

300K

>>18565127
That's like 157 dollars, Kina isn't a strong currency and unlikely to rice so you don't have to worry

I'm legally trained, and soon to be a lawyer. Restraint of trade clauses are pretty standard in employment contracts, especially in your sort of situation, but I've never heard of them being imposed when you resign. I wouldn't worry about it though; they're normal and as long as you're not directly using anything you learned on the job, you won't be in legal trouble.

If youre in Europe no, cause right to chose your work and also competition ethics. They can prevent you for a limited amount of time, in a limited area but they have to compansate you financially for this otherwise its void clause. You can't get somethig without giving something bk. :)

>>18564502
They will come after you if and only if
1. You go to work for a competitor
2. You introduce them to something that was a unique trade secret of the old job
3. They use this info to compete with the old job.

And then yes, they will come down on you hard.

If you just tell your family, or if you work in a different field, or even if you work for a competitor (unless there was a no-compete clause) and don't use anything top secret from the old job, you're OK

>>18565155
>Restraint of trade clauses are pretty standard in employment contracts, especially in your sort of situation, but I've never heard of them being imposed when you resign

Because they didn't include them in the contact so they baited me to sign after, as a precaution for them.

>>18565155
>as long as you're not directly using anything you learned on the job

Of course one uses something learned on the job however, but won't steal code or anything.

>>18565210
Well you've signed it now and like I said, you'll be fine as long as you don't directly use anything you learned on the job. There is a level of reasonableness involved though, they can't unreasonably limit your future career prospects and your future actions. What this means is that they can't come after you for using something like a skill you learned on the job, or if you learned a programming language for that job or something.

Honestly, you'll be fine. There's nothing to worry about, just don't copy anything you did for the old job.

>>18565223

Thanks man, was really worried for a bit.

>>18565135
300 thousand dollars

>>18565127
That's ridiculous, and no court will ever enforce it. They simply pulled a figure out of their ass. Just because you signed it, doesn't mean shit. If they ever try to get you to pay that much you can tell them to fuck off. In fact if they in the slightest way try to extract money from you or harass you in any way, tell them to fuck off and then get a lawyer to sue them.

>>18565228
No worries. This sort of clause is perfectly normal; the only unusual part is that they made you sign it upon resignation (which might even mean it won't hold up if they try to enforce it). It's very unlikely it'll come to that though.