Any aquarists here? I'm looking to start a little self-sustaining

>>18553176
Just get some plants and turtles, they live pretty long provided the enviroment is stable.

>>18553180
mind if we talk about that a little bit? What would be some basic things to check out for a "stable environment"?

>>18553176
>self sustaining
>50 gallon

you need like 250+ to get anywhere near self sustaining. and you will always have to add and drain water. you are going to invest a shit ton of time and money into essentially building a space age level life support system if you go saltwater. not even joking. also, you need multiple tanks to deal with disease, you can't medicate a tank with inverts in it.

t. I kept salt water tanks for some years and was going to study marine biology before the recession hit.

my suggestion, save for a 100 gallon, get the equipment, a really good protein skimmer, sump tank, really good canister filter, at least two pumps and make sure they are the kind that mimic wave action, and start there. move really slow and don't go blow a few hundred to a thousand dollars on live fiji rock until you really know what you're doing, you'll just waste all your money.

like, you kinda stress me out with that ambition for a self sustaining system at 50 gal. you're gonna kill everything several times before you even approach success. the miniature reef tanks all over the internet and in magazines take a shit ton of time anon. I used to spend at least an hour a day on my miniature reef tank when I had it to make sure it was where it needed to be.

really study the biology you want to replicate. study the microbiology its going to take to get there. study the cycling of the chemistry of aquariums. then study the interactions between the fish and inverts you want to keep.

>>18553222
thanks for the very detailed reply anon, but I forgot to say I probably won't be aiming for something as big as having fish in it at the moment (if that makes any difference). Though that's a really interesting take on salt water tank, the little guide I read was for fresh water as it mentions fresh water fish and some freshwater fauna.
Really I'd be happy if I can get a shrimp in there without fucking it all up. Speaking of studying the biology yes I have been going through articles and probably read up on it a little more before I am ready to jump the gun with my supposed 50G tank. Though you recommend a 100 instead I think I will aim for that.

>>18553254
basically, the larger the tank the slower the chemistry changes in the water. so wastes don't affect the nitrate and nitrite levels as quickly, and important trace minerals don't get exhausted as quickly, and the temperature is more consistent.

smaller tanks require spot on equipment and maintenance. if you're talking freshwater it's a lot easier, but you posted a pic of a saltwater tank so that's how I answered.

make sure it's cycled properly, and then add life slowly so you don't trigger another cycle that could kill everything off. you don't need to be anywhere near spot on with your chemicals for freshwater.

saltwater organisms evolved in an environment that has the same temp, chemistry, salt level, etc, on a consistent basis so you have to replicate that consistency in a closed system. freshwater fish and inverts tend to be more hardy because there's more variation in the environments they evolved in, naturally.

I'd still recommend a 100 gal if you can afford it and the equipment. for a freshwater setup you really only need a good canister filter. also unless you are keeping shrimp, you also don't need a medical quarantine tank. you can treat ich and stuff in tank with freshwater fish, but that tank can then never be used for saltwater inverts if you switch later. they're that sensitive to the chemicals in the medicine that will leach out of the sealant in the corners.

>>18553286
so say if I were to start the project now. I add the substrate then the tap water + dechlorinating drops. Should I then add the plants right away (per to adding life slowly)? Or is that only when I've already got the setup going and I decide to add, say a new species of fresh water fish into the ecosystem?

Also by inverts you mean invertebrates right? I really appreciate adding in the knowledge for saltwater ecosystems, it's good to have been told that to stay away (or maybe in the future, beckoned to) from. You really know your stuff anon.

File: clown feesh.jpg (109KB, 600x900px) Image search: [Google]

109KB, 600x900px

>>18553318
you would want to add one fish first. a hardy species. you have to start the nitrogen cycle and for that you need poop. so you add one, maybe a few fish depending on the size of the tank, you could definitely add plants then as well, frankly I don't know what difference that's going to have on the cycling process. I don't know if that would speed it up or slow it down, I've only ever cycled with fish alone, or with saltwater live rock alone.

but you add the fish, and then you watch your ammonia levels rise, then drop, then the nitrite levels will rise, then drop, then the nitrate levels will rise and accumulate and then you do a water change to bring your nitrates back into check.

once the tank has cycled you add more life slowly. basically you don't want to add too much too fast or you'll start a new cycle with ammonia levels spiking, then nitrites, then a burst of nitrates and likely an algal bloom, none of which is very healthy for the fish.

and yeah, inverts is any invertebrate from the hardiest crab, to the most delicate stony coral. and I don't say all that to scare you away from saltwater reef keeping, but because its important to realize its not easy and you have to know what you're doing. otherwise you just kill a lot of poor fish and corals and waste a lot of money. hell even if you know what you're doing you're likely to kill a lot of fish and coral. once you go salt you never go back though. it's addictive and you want the newest feesh, or the craziest new hybrid coral with the coolest colors. like talking about it right now I want to go buy a tank and then cloister myself in my office and spend a few days planning what I'm going to do with it.

it will inevitably beckon to you because the animals are so much more interesting. also clown feesh, cmon, who doesn't want a clown feesh in an anemone? look at this, look at it, how can you say no to that? they have some of the most personality of all the saltwater fish I've kept.

>>18553383
I see I'll plan it out that way then. Yes your talk of saltwater reefs and fish really gets me interested in that side of things (that damn clownfish is too charming) but I'll probably hold off that at least until I get a little more experienced like you said

I feel like I have so many more questions to go through but I can't really think any at all. I'm sure I'm going to wake up one day and say "I should have asked him so and so!" but so far you've helped me out tons. Maybe one more thing if you don't mind, how reliable is it shopping online for fishes, plants and equipment for the aquarium? Would you say it as a no-go? I don't live too far from the city so I could probably search around for anything related. But the convenience of click shopping really is a tempting alternative