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I'm putting this here as a way to have it "in writing" and process it
Me and my gf, both 23, just had a really long talk about our future. We both love each a hell of a lot, but the ONLY thing we disagree on is kids. I think I want them pretty positively, but she leans towards the negative. I told her that that scared me, and she got really upset thinking that she wasn't enough for me. I comforted her and we kept talking. Neither of us wants to lose the other, so we dug deeper into the issue. In a lot of ways, I'm scared of growing old and never having anything going on rather than not having kids. I described it as "quiet Christmases and no laughter in the restaurant". We talked about how kids =/= exciting or joyful lives necessarily, and I was receptive to that. Her family has welcomed me in beautifully, and I love that. My Christmases won't be quiet whether we have kids or not, and there'll be neices and nephews in the picture no matter what. This made me feel better, almost like the best of both worlds.
We also talked about our reasons for wanting or not wanting kids, and the cool thing was that we both think that the ONLY reason to have kids is for acts of selflessness and giving. Fear of missing out is not an excuse to bring a life into the world. That made me feel better too. Even if we fall on different sides of the fence, we view the fence the same. That's got to be a good sign for something.
Finally, we decided that we'll continue on dating and learning about ourselves and growing together. 23 is a little too soon to be agonizing about this so much (my fault) since we both still have a lot of growing up to do.
Finally, I asked her for an exchange. If I stay sure to view the kid situation as less of an ideal or a romanticised concept, she'll try and think of kids in a more positive light. Feels like a fair deal.
We're about to head out on a nice date, so I'm leaving this here to remind myself. If anyone reads this, thanks for listening. I love you, C.
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It's 100% normal to want kids, don't let her talk you out of it, and don't get married if you can't come to an agreement on this. If she hasn't changed her tune by 25-26 or so, you should consider moving on and finding someone else. I don't wanna burst your bubble, but this is one of the most serious incompatibilities you could have in a relationship.
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>>18524592
Agreed, Anon, but I just don't think I'm ready to make that call yet. We're not trying to talk each other in or out of things, but we're having too much fun to really call it quits for something we're not ready yet for in the first place. That's why I asked her about our "deal". I'll keep my mind realistic that kids won't be some guaranteed ticket to a happy life, and she'll keep her mind positive that being a parent wouldn't be horrible or end any enjoyment in her life. Here and now, we're enough for each other, and even though I would like kids, they're not yet a dealbreaker when there are other options for fulfillment and love on the table.
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>>18524570
You probably thinking you can change her opinions, just bear in mind that you won't change nothing, even if she really loves you that something hard to change and it's too much of a sacrifice for both of you.
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While most women usually change their mind about this at some time, I would advise that you do not marry as long as she is unwilling to have children, simply because this is an important issue and, at least in theory, marriage is supposed to last until one or both of you die
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>>18524619
There's a tiny part of me that thinks I could convince her, but I love her too much to listen to that. I won't try and manipulate her into anything because that'd be horrible. I'm trying to keep the focus on my thinking. She's such a positive influence on my life that I'm not sure about kids as much as I used to be. I wanted to change my thinking from childless life = bad to childless life = different and see how that serves me.
>>18524634
Definitely. Marriage is not on the table until this is decided. For both our sakes
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>>18524644
>I wanted to change my thinking from childless life = bad to childless life = different and see how that serves me.
Not well. You'd be better off just thinking "I don't want kids YET and I'm enjoying this relationship right now." But don't brainwash yourself and try to change your life goals just for the sake of a girlfriend. You'll fall into a bottomless pit of depression when she meets another guy, has kids right away, and it all turned out to be bullshit.
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>>18524570
>don't have kids just because of fear of missing out
>40 years later
>everyone else has kids that are having grandkids and looking after them
>they have a reason to live and continue life
>satisfaction of bringing new good people into the world
>you guys
>no children
>just the two of you
>no real friends after retiring
>just sitting staring at yourselves every day
Well good thing you weren't selfish!
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>>18524644
>but I love her too much to listen to that. I won't try and manipulate her into anything because that'd be horrible
It's not manipulation you just trying to make her see your point.
Also,
>Marriage is not on the table until this is decided. For both our sakes
This is wise, keep that mentality if you can
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>>18524655
>Implying she won't leave him at 42 and take half his money, his house, and getting alimony, the money he saved by not having kids, leaving him too old to start a family, all alone, and broke.
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>>18524570
Cut a hole in the condom
Problem solved
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>>18524681
Now you're thinking like a true mgtow. Respect.
And also sadly plausible
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>>18524570
Seems like a pretty big difference of goals/values. I probably wouldn't make it past the early dating phase with a woman who has communicated she doesn't want children.
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