Why do salary estimates seem so low? I'm looking to study

>>18423486
Depending where you live, 65k can be more than enough. I make 66k, live in Utah, with 2 kids, a 4 bedroom house and a wife who stays at home. After covering all my bills and maxing out my 401k employer match I'm still saving 2k a month, no problem.

because jews run the economy like a ponzi scheme and fuck you that's why.

>>18423518
and there's probably not that many jobs in your area and the people with those jobs stay in those jobs because it's enough to live comfortably. try getting paid that much in a city, but being unable to move to a place like where you live because there are essentially no jobs.

it's bullshit.

with that, I'm going to sleep, I have to find some way to make my job work.

I might be a bad example, but when I was younger my expectation of what I'd earn vs the reality of what my abilities were worth was vastly inaccurate. I'd read something like "the average salary is 22k" and I'd think "well I'm bound to get average, I'm sure the 50% of people who don't get the average can be safely ignored in my calculations because I won't be one of those, shit why I'm sure I'm worth at least the 90th percentile and up!".

Then I'd go and interview at age 19 without any proven experience and previous success, without a car, not speaking three languages and being unwilling to relocate to Germany within the next 3 months.

Yes I know that we are often talking median and not mode with these figures, but please don't rule out reality. You must be able to see all around you that while people can earn a good wage, top earners are in the minority and you've got to be very lucky, or willing to move to where these roles are.

In my current role I have a lot of young guys coming in for a 'gateway' job. It is either their first job and they have designs on moving up in the industry or they are just looking for a work trial, something temporary or a reference for an apprenticeship, college or similar.

Most of them have completely crazy expectations. They assume I must earn 25x what I actually earn because of how hard I work. They assume the business must turn over 5% of what it does because they can't understand how profit and loss actually scales. They expect to earn 2 million a year sometime within the next 10 years and seem shocked that I'd retire if given a million right now because they seem to think that they'll be earning 250k a year within the next three years because you can't even buy a decent car let alone a house with less.

It is like, unless you are top 10%, you aren't going to buy a house. You might have been raised in one and have listened to your parents stories about working hard and starting a family, but you'll rent until you are 50.

>>18423518
I just don't know what sort of a lifestyle comes with that though. I've grown up middle to upper-middle class but I've never really been satisfied. It almost seems like luck to a certain degree.

>>18423535
It's salt lake city, there is plenty of jobs. In fact I got offered another job unsolicited last week. I started off at this job 11 years ago making less than 21k a year and no degree. Don't be stupid, be willing to go beyond what's required and learn to negotiate. Also, fuck jews.

>>18423543
It is luck to a degree but a shit ton of hard work. Keep working hard til you get lucky. But if you're looking for your job to give you fulfillment you're fucked. I LIVE this job all day everyday and it drives me to drink. But my kids are taken care of and right now that's the most important thing to me.

>>18423541
Well I currently live in New Zealand and for that reason I'm fairly privileged. Here the average engineering graduate finds plenty of opportunity to work. I've probably just become too optimistic and/or ambitious about the real world. Dreaming of moving overseas and earning like $200,000 at the peak of my career lmao

>>18423549
Yeah the prospect of financial security has always appealed more to me than a fulfilling job

>>18423544
Lean to negotiate. Ha. I'm all in favour of negotiating a better salary, but you are basically just forcing a situation where the equation is how much will it cost me if this person leaves right now / how much will it cost me to keep them. You might win out in the short term, or you might find out the company feels it can get better value for money with somebody else, but in the long run if you've a better opportunity elsewhere where you can maintain your enthusiasm and grow your skills and worth as an employee you might be better off taking it. I know quite a lot of people earning inflated salaries out of line with their worth and it is entirely because they asked at the right time and it was deemed too costly to not give in to their demands at the time. Thing is, when the moment is right for them to be replaced they'll immediately be replaced with somebody earning 1/3rd of what they did and they'll be on the job market as 'so basically you gave up 10 years ago and have been phoning it in and you expect to earn how much?'.

>>18423555
Ok man. I'd look at it this way. How many engineering positions paying the salary you would like are available to you within the distance you are willing to travel or relocate to?

How many people graduate a year qualified to do these roles? What pool is selected from internationally? I live in what is classed as the high technology manufacturing capital of the country. We've got nuclear power, aerospace, rocketry, trains, car manufacturing and all the different types of smaller engineering works to support these industries, pumps, turbines, gas struts etc.

Even so I'm very surprised if out of the few thousand local engineering graduates every year more than 1% find employment locally and if more than a handful of those get the top jobs. Most of the high end roles are filled with roaming international talent.

The managers I know joke about how they easily take on hundreds of extra staff when they get a big contract because these guys are so excited to finally land a job at the big name companies and are filled with the idea that it is a job for life and they'll suddenly be following in the footsteps of their parents and grandparents, rapidly earning bank in this 'job for life' if only you are willing to start at the bottom and be one of the hard working and lucky ones to stick it out.

What happens is 50% of them are fired as the basic grunt work is completed. The rest are fired slowly as the contract comes to completion and then the remaining few, who believe the dream whole heartedly and have worked their asses off and who you'd give your right arm to have in your corner are laid off at the end once the contract is up because that is what keeps the managers in a job and until they land another contract that is how those departments work, like 2,500 staff back down to a team of 10.

What these guys should do, is be willing to then relocate to brazil or something to act as a consultant for 2 years. Then start to become one of the international talent.

>>18423558
Your negotiation position is shit if you're not improving yourself year after year. If you think you can triple your salary without increasing your skills you're fucking dreaming. Know what you're worth and be willing to leave if they don't play ball. I started as a temp doing clerical work and now I'm a developer. You think that's because I phoned it in for 10 years?

>>18423583
Well I'm young and pretty ambitious. Willing to go where the opportunities are really. As a New Zealander I have one of the best passports for doing so in the world as well. I guess it's just a case of word hard until you find your opportunity huh?

>>18423486
Just wait until you get hit with taxes/deductions/insurance on that $65K

>>18423625
lmao