What's more sad: A guy that tries hard and asks out a bunch

>>18375193

Someone with a defeatist mentality will always be sadder than someone who has the courage to try.

>>18375193

Technically, it's B. They've given up and have no self-worth.

A is sad because a lot of times it isn't really his fault besides his total lack of social awareness. I knew a guy who wandered into every Hooters, Twin Peaks, or other "we're here to be half naked" restaurant, and wouldn't even sit down for a meal before he'd told a girl about how much he loved anime, and ask her to go on a romantic date.

Asking someone out should be more fluid than that. It should take a little chemistry, a little conversation, or if it's completely out of nowhere - it should happen maybe once a year.

>>18375212
yep

next step is auto erotic asphyxiation gone wrong...

2. 1 might be more cringy, but 1 is far, far superior.
t. 2

>>18375193
It's a numbers thing OP. Sucessful guys tried at least 100 times before a chick said yes. Also, lower your standards a swoop-up on a fugly. It'll build your self esteem for higher game later.

>>18375193
what about the guy that waits for the one woman that really grabs his interest and then fucks it up every time. then one time has a relationship with jane any woman because obviously can't get the right girl so might as well have a girl. then he realizes that sucks a lot so goes back to waiting for the right girl only to fuck it up again.

>>18375371
Good question because this is me.

>>18375371
Story of my life

>>18375371
kek that's me as well

>>18375281
Successful guys don't have to ask 100 girls to get one. That's just rule of numbers guys.

>>18376737
This. Every time a normie friend of mine talks about how he got his current girlfriend he tells it as if it worked out the first time. I don't have reasons to think they are lying either.
I mean they have zero problems getting a girl to be their girlfriend, the only "problem" they have is breaking up afterwards, but then they just find someone else and magically start a relationship. I can't get past the first step.

>>18375193
The second one. I was like that in high school and the beginning of college, really just gave off closed-off and insecure vibes and missed chances with females because I was scared to expose my neck, yk? And it's really a sad reflection on what I thought of myself.
Get used to rejection. Just don't get too involved or invested before you give her a chance to show her intentions. And it won't hurt that bad. Just keep on going. Score a few thots here and there to keep your self esteem up. And you'll be gucci.

Believing only in binary situations/outcomes is the saddest.

>>18375205
I don't think so I'm pretty happy just not being in a relationshit ship desu, even if I know I'm unattractive

>>18377965
Lol this

I've seen guys who make no moves have chicks flock to them and guys who talk to every chick get shot down

The success is the goal, not how you obtain it. Hell I hardly go out my way to hit on women and yet I've gotten laid more than dudes I know who club hop every weekend

>>18377985
Yep, while singlehood is a bit lonely, I like my time to myself all to myself. My goal these days is pussy, not dating.

>>18377991
What if girls don't flock to you and you never make a move?

>>18378006
Then you are probably a shut-in without any hope left

>>18378019
The point I wanted to make was not everyone has a more or less equal situation when it comes to relationships. Personally, I am not a shut in but I have definitely given up.

>>18378006
Meh, I prefer just stumbling into situations. Most of my lays and dates were when I was totally clueless about it and i was just talking to her.

Just be comfortable, I dunno why people push this cold approach shit. Im a guy and even I can tell what's up when a guy goes out his way to go talk to a chick and it's cringy as all fuck usually ending with him being shut down.

All my best work was when I came across her and just started talking to her about random shit instead of me trying to pry into her life ending with me trying to get a number.

Trust your gut, if you feel like "Yeah I can go talk to her" then do it, but never go "man that girl is hot, should I talk to her? I think I should talk to her cause I'll miss my chance", cause then you'll put unnecessary pressure on yourself. All my cold approaches were rejections and all my lays were merely me just hanging out with her and talking to her like she's a dude.

>>18375193

depends on how he reacts to each. a guy who keeps at it and betters himself is not nearly as sad as the guy who gives up and acts like a twat as a result.

but a guy who gives up without whining is less sad than someone who keeps trying but hwines.

really its not about what you do but rather how you react. if you react like a twat, people treat you like a twat.

that being said do what makes you happy, not what others will interpret as more pathetic.

>>18378028
That approach can get you stuck as a friend or backup guy/emotional sponge. Unless you're inherintely attractive.

>>18378037
Well to be honest senpai, I'm only looking to get laid these days so I'll only indulge you for that reason. Backup more than likely but I cut her off if she tries to make me her girlfriend in terms of being emotional and shit. Plus I make it somewhat clear that I'm looking to fuck. I never really give the illusion I'm there to be her soulmate.

Most women respond better that way cause I treated her as a person while I was trying to get laid rather than trying to treat her as a commodity while trying to get laid with cold approaches.

I'm not saying they don't work cause a guy I know knocks it out the park but he has very very high charisma, and it works for him cause that's his comfort zone. Every guy has a different method.

>>18375193
Probably the latter. I'm kinda like that; never asked a girl out because I know I probably wouldn't make a good boyfriend. Sometimes I feel like I should try to be one of those brodudes who gets shitfaced at clubs and flirts with women only to get slapped, even if that wouldn't make me a more desirable person to be around. I'm definitely getting better, though. Recently I started lifting more and trying to eat healthier, and I've noticed I'm a bit more confident than usual

>>18378062
What is a cold approach?

>>18378028
>>18378062
Every time I talk to a girl like she's a dude I never end up doing anything because I don't know how to transition things to sex/the bedroom. Like we talk and then they end up going home or I do.

Also I'm reluctant to try anything because my best friend had a false rape accusation filed against him, and he didn't even do anything with her. Knowing my luck I'd get accused, or at least alienated by mutual friends for trying to hook up.

The only reason I lost my virginity was because this 5.5/10 girl messaged me that she though I was super attractive on insta after I had met her through freinds and hung out with her in our group.

>>18378099
When you approach a girl you don't know on the street/club/whatever

>>18378122
Oh. I have no idea how anyone does that. So a warm approach is asking someone out you at least kind of know then?

guy who gets shutdown constantly of course. guy 1 just keeps holding onto hope in the face of unbeatable adversity, that is really sad. its like those stories of people who work honestly their whole life then get cancer when theyre 60 and die on their retirement day. at least guy 2 has escaped that cycle of suffering, very zen

>>18378135
I guess, but I don't think that's the term for it.

>>18378188
>very zen

This guy gets it.

I just know my place in the world. I'm a loser virgin creep.

The fact is, not everyone gets to mate, not every species reproduces, sometimes genetic lines die off. Just how it is, my genes just aren't worth being passed on.

It would be crueller for everyone involved to push me into trying again.
It would be cruel for me, to be rejected again (and labelled creepy),
It would be cruel to whatever poor woman has to reject me.
It would be cruel for everyone watching to have to deal with the cringe factor displayed by the incredibly awkward moment.

>>18376746
Getting a girlfriend shouldn't be the goal to begin with.

>>18375205
This. Who's more disgusting, the fat fuck you see running in the park who's actually trying to change his shit or the fat fuck you see in McDonalds stuffing more burger into his fat fuck face?

>>18378188
It's not zen at all. Zen would be disregarding relationships because your own pursuits are worth more than the relationships. What guy 2 is doing is just giving up, and no-one ever likes or cares about the guy who gives up.

>>18378329
Just get a fat chick, a fat chick who knows she's fat not some bright-haired landwhale covered in piercings and full of 'personality'. They're easy and are usually pretty good cooks. Or a burn victim. You're already labelled creepy and people already have to deal with your cringe so don't worry about that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NF5XU-k2Vk

Why be content that you're not 'the worst' when you could be improving yourself so you're neither of these guys?

>>18375205
Fpbp

>>18375193
I don't see the women with giving up on women indefinitely. There's a lot of good reasons to do so.

First, women are somewhat socialized to see men as creepy by default. A lot of them seem to assume a man is trying to fuck her even if he's just being a little friendly or flirty. She assumes the worst of him, that he has no redeeming qualities and just wants to smash. So it's hard to approach women in any setting when you feel like you're just going to be a creepy loser.

Next, rejection isn't fun for anyone. I was the guy who tried hard and asked out as hit ton of girls in a variety of settings and got turned down by all of them, so I turned into the guy that doesn't bother because I have had it confirmed time and again that I'm not attractive and IMO it's not worth changing. I feel happier doing what makes me happy and a lot of what makes me happy is either solitary or male-dominated hobbies. I don't see the point in going out and getting rejected more on the side. I'm unattractive to women to begin with, remember?

As an unattractive man I have no power. Dating is pretty rigged for women so even guys who are attractive have it kind of tough. I have to be the one to learn "game", learn to flirt, court, ask women out, seduce, maintain relationships. Women don't have to do this shit because they have so many options and as soon as she's not happy with me she'd just move on to the next guy (in theory - remember, I'm not attractive, women don't like me so they're not going to date me anyways).

Most guys aren't like me and they get it figured out eventually. But I'm 25 and women hate me. I've lost all hope. Not that there was any to begin with.

>>18379259
>inb4 defeatist, don't give up, etc.

Look, I don't know why people think monogamy is for everyone or that everyone should try to date/has the capacity to date. I guess I get why people think your lives are made better but the problem is that not everyone can find somebody. Not everyone is lovable. Not everyone NEEDS a lover. Some of us are probably better off alone vs going through tons of pain just to get a dick wet/feel emotional closeness. It's not like you can't be close to friends and family anyways.

>>18375193
the guy who doesn't bother is more sad because he has 0% chance of success

>>18375193
the pussy beggar who seeks validation from women by trying to get a "yes" or a "no" is the most pathetic.

>>18379281
>success is defined by how many women you sleep with
>men all need to Man Up and chase da holy pussy bro

Yeah nah m8. You can't have everything you want in life. I make decent money, I drive a very nice car, I have friends and hobbies I absolutely love. On the other hand, relationships with women bring me nothing but pain. I'm not even blaming the women, so much as being realistic: I'm unable to meet their needs and expectations, and they're unable to meet mine. It's pointless to try to force something that will never work.

>>18379292
you yourself view it as a measure of success, otherwise you (presumably op) would not have started this thread.

search your feelings, you know it to be true.

>>18379292
That's nice and all but completely unrelated to OP's question. OP phrased it as,
>A guy that doesn't bother because he knows (or at least strongly believes) he'll get rejected?
Not a guy who doesn't bother because he's satisfied with his single life, not a guy who doesn't bother because he doesn't find relationships worthwhile, but a guy who doesn't bother because he's that afraid of rejection.

>>18379340
I'm not OP.

Men are socialized to believe it is a measure of success. Your worth is seen as tied to your ability to get laid. The thing to do here is isolate those illogical thoughts and remember that your success is not in the hands of women, it's how you define it.

I used to believe in it so strongly bit the cold hard truth is this: not all guys get laid and pass on genes. Not all guys are attractive enough. Some just meet a horrible fate before even getting a chance to try. I don't want my life to revolve around women. I want to give up on them so I can be free and be my own person. The only reason it's hard to do is my genitals and my biology trying to force me to try and fuck women when I cant. Right now it's like a personal hell but some day I will conquer it and be truly free, or at least close enough to it.

>>18379350
You can be single and live a good life and still have issues getting laid/be afraid of rejection.

The OP said knowing rejection though, not fearing it. I know I'll get rejected because I've learned all the signs give off when they don't like me and that's how I feel around every single female I meet.

>>18379370
You can be single and live a good life and still ask out a bunch of girls and get rejected. The ONLY distinction between the two people in OP's question is one tries and the other does not try. They both desire, and no other details are given about their life. This is why number 2 is a faggot, and always will be a faggot. He wants something but doesn't make an attempt because of fear (you call it knowledge to make yourself feel better; it's fear). You can substitute the desire for a partner with anything else. Let's say OP wants to be a published novelist. Guy 1 spends his free time writing his novel and reading other works to inspire him and improve his ability, guy 2 doesn't bother even trying because he knows he'll never make it. Let's say he wants a better job. Guy 1 spends his free time looking for what's available he qualifies for, honing his interview skills and techniques, perfecting his CV, guy 2 doesn't bother because he knows he'll fail. Let's say he wants to go have a sex-tourism holiday getting blown by Thai ladyboys, guy 1 asks for overtime and works some pretty shitty shifts to make extra cash and earn extra holiday hours then spends two weeks having non-stop sex with Dave and Trevor, whilst guy 2 doesn't bother and just lurks /gif/ for tranny porn whilst crying himself to sleep.

OP wants something but doesn't try to attain it. The fact it's a woman doesn't matter. It could be a dream, an improved state of life, something frivolous, it could be inner-fucking-peace, and guy 2 will always be a faggot for giving up.

>>18379353
To expound a bit more:

Look at the narrative dished out to guys who are seriously considering giving up on women. "Work on yourself and the women will follow". This very statement is exactly what keeps people hooked on the idea that a relationship And love is the end goal of self improvement. Like of course women are going to like you more after you "Work on yourself" right? A short ugly guy can work on himself all his life and never get anywhere with girls. People will keep telling him he just needs to keep working but the reality is women are passing him up for his looks alone. Meanwhile other dudes who never really thought about "working on themselves" have women lining up because they're tall and hot.

Say that I am that short ugly guy. What if I go to my grave without ever having had a relationship or sex? That is not outside the realm of possibility and I always worry about that, but I don't want to. I want to be completely comfortable with the fact that I can, and probably will, die a virgin who never found love.

>>18379399
It is knowledge. Not everyone can make it. A short and ugly man will never do well with girls and even if he does find someone she'll probably cheat on him for a better looking dude.

I don't want to believe this is true but it is. People in New Orleans didn't want to believe Hurricane Katrina was coming. Sometimes life us not nice to you and you have to accept truly awful things. I would rather engage in other pursuits than spend my life trying to make impossible things happen. There's nothing honorable about being a fool and if you've ever met a hard limit for yourself somewhere, you would understand.

>>18379399
Dude the only thing on the line for a guy constantly trying and failing with girls is his own ego and emotions. These girls give no fucks about him until he finally learns how to give them what they want. Why is he a faggot for not wanting to endure that bullshit? It's not like the world is worse off somehow because one random dude didn't get his dick wet. He should have the choice to not want to put up with it. I hate how guys are pressured to keep trying because I know some of them will fail and die and it's fucking awful. We never hear about them but I know they're out there.

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>>18379421
Short and ugly men marry short and ugly women. Dwarfs have big conventions so they can meet other dwarfs because normal people don't go for them, aside from in niche porn. Unless you're an actual space abomination then you're not too ugly for all women everywhere, you're just full of woe-is-me bullshit because it's an easy way out for you. Self-pity isn't depth. I stand by everything I've said.

>>18379435
He's a faggot because he wants something but doesn't want to get it because it's too hard. Someone who disregards women because they are worth less than his other desires/dreams, he's fine. Someone who disregards relationships because he finds the cost outweighs the benefit, he's fine. We're not talking about those guys. We're talking about a guy who does want a relationship and a loving woman, but doesn't want to take any risks or make any effort. Someone who wants something without being willing to work for it is and always will be a fucking faggot.

>>18379445
Or they could just not marry at all. Maybe he doesn't want to pass on his shit genes. If you're born terrible looking there's an evolutionary reason you are having a hard time with dating.

You still haven't really convinced me dating is worth all that effort. Like what am I gaining from it exactly? A bunch more shit ego bruising and failed relationships with the occasional half decent hookup? You're selling me on this fallacy that every guy has a success story if he tried hard enough, as if marrying a fucking bridge troll is actually successful. Give me a fucking break.

>>18379454
So you're creating a straw man for yourself I see. Do you really think guys who give up on women never tried? Because I can tell you that's straight up wrong.

>>18379455
>>18379460
You're really fucking illiterate. I'm going to say this as plainly as possible. We're not talking about you. I'm not trying to convince you that dating is worth all that effort. We're not having a meeting about your life and your experiences. We're talking about OP and his question.

OP's question is about two people. One person tries and fails. The other person doesn't try. They both desire. I'm going to say again that the subject of their desire is irrelevant. In this case it's women, but it could be anything else (publishing a book, getting a better job, a holiday, inner peace). This has nothing to do with your experiences of women.

Guy 2 is a faggot because he wants something but doesn't try. Guy 1 fails, but he at least gives himself a chance to get what he desires. He can try again, learning from his mistakes until he eventually succeeds. Guy 2 is doomed to failure through his own lack of effort.

That is all this comes down to. If you want to take yourself out of the genepool that's fine, the genepool will likely be better off without you, but that's not relevant to anything actually going on in this thread you self-centred fuck.

>>18379486
I am 100% guy 2. I don't even know why I'm bothering staying alive. I can't achieve anything because I never try and fear failure and rejection.

>>18378028
Fuck off you dumb Chad. Not everyone is blessed with good genetics.

>>18379763
Fuck off back to /r9k/ if all you want to do is whine and make excuses. If you want to improve your life, then you're welcome on /adv/.

>>18375193
More sad than this is that there are social norms that allow for thinking "he isn't good at finding women, thus he is a sad person".
Because of this women know lots of men put pussy on the pedestal and they fuck us over.

>>18379780
And also that there are topics like this one. Stop giving these bitches all the attention.

>>18379454
What about some kind of combination of the three?

>>18379486
It wasn't implied guy 2 wants something and doesn't try. All that was said about him was that he knows he will be rejected so he doesn't try. The words "fear of rejection" were not used in the OP. Stop making shit up you idiot.

File: brazilianbeauty.jpg (65KB, 800x683px) Image search: [Google]

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one of the biggest italian casanovas, an actor, said in an interview that his success rate with women was around 10%

I've got no reason to not believe him, so boys keep on trying

>>18380404
It's a numbers game. Try, fail, move on, repeat until success

>>18381021
But how can a guy get what he wants when he's just shotgunning it and has to settle on whatever women decides to choose him?

>>18381021
It's not a numbers game.

>>18375193
They're both equally depressing for their own, similar reason

>>18379399
THAT.

>>18379259
youre only 25 and your giving up? you deserve all the shit you get.

But seriously, both suck. I was A and B at one time in my life. B isn't bad, but you don't ever have any successes with that mentality. A is worse. If you aren't careful you'll be labeled the "creepy guy" if you hit on girls without any game. And that in some ways is WAYY worse than B. At least with B you can change slowly though social interactions, proper diet, exercise, and confidence building though hobbies and social activities. A gives you a label and its not good.

If you live in a big city and can bounce around being A isnt that bad, but in a small city its social death.

>>18375193
Not trying, in any endeavor, is infinitely more pathetic. The latter is also a failure of the will whereas the former is often a weakness thrust upon a person by fate. The man of action can look himself in the mirror whereas the wallflower is a gutless coward who will fail to make a mark on the world.

>>18379400

I'm in the same situation, although I'm not a hypothetical short lonely virgin. I'm just kinda done with women right now. That, at least, is what I keep telling myself. I kinda "hate" "their" guts but I cant help but think about em all the time.

I think understanding and observing that your thoughts and motivations are irrational does not instantly transform you into a rational being, although we like to think so.

I think that is the limit of our male mind, the constant instinctive and underlying need to procreate. There's no ulterior motive as to why, it's just what we do.

Kind of a cruel joke don't you think?

>>18375193
The woman who preys and feeds off male desire