I want to talk, about love, specifically, why I will probably

you have serious intimacy issues. i'm a bit similar with that but i have made it a point to throw myself into cold water and learn, learn, learn from the moment i had my first relationship. i still get mildly claustrophobic (28 now and in a relationship since 1,5y) and i need to kick my own ass to communicate properly plus i need loads of alone time. but it is possible.
do you have any idea what makes you so scared of intimacy?

>>18250584
My boyfriend is like you. Attractive, successful, charming, narcissistic, full of himself, a bit of a cunt. Never had a relationship, had a thousand girls begging for his cock, had a thousand flings, never had a serious relationship or actually loved anybody.
Then we met. Been together for 2 years now, going strong.

It really just takes the right person, and a fair share of maturing.

>>18250596
Yeah you're probably right. I have no idea where its started, as long as I can remember I have always loved talking to girls, the initial attraction and then the physical stuff. But as soon as the girl drops her guard and starts wanting to talk all the time, I get the impression that shes too clingy. Its really annoying and immature but there's nothing I can do.

>>18250600
Thats really encouraging to hear, I still hold out hope that I'll meet someone and we'll just click on that level, but so far I remain a sackless prick who can't handle being that close to someone romantically. Glad to hear you guys are doing well

>>18250634
what was your parents relationship like?

>>18250647
Not OP, But this is likely a big factor. If you are on good terms with your father, I highly recommend asking him for advice before anyone else.

If not, then I can guarantee that it is at least a big part of why you have this issue.

>>18250647
Normal,. they got married and stayed together

>>18250662
that says absolutely nothing. how did you perceive their marriage? could you look back and say "i always wanted to have a relationship like my parents had"?

how is your relationship to them? is it close?

what do you fear most if you get close to someone? what exactly makes you dislike someone being clingy to you? i get that you feel smothered. but why? do you think they will "fuck you over at some point anyways"? do you not want to get involved in their issues? do you think it would be too much work to make a relationship enjoyable?

>>18250584
This will naturally get better as you age and your testosterone decreases. Don't worry about it.

>>18250679
Yeah that's a fair point, they met young and have supposedly been in love ever since. I never really thought about having a relationship like them, I wlays thought my life would be less docile, my dad was pretty successful, my mum stays at hoem and cleans, pretty stable relationship. I get along extremely well with them, and all members of my family for that matter.

I don't know exactly what it is but I have this thing about getting that close to girls, it suddenly feels like there's an obligation for me to be there all the time and focus on them instead of my own life. I don't have a fear that they will fuck me over, I developed a very strong mental shield to any bullshit and will call things as I see them and not get influenced easily. I do have a no tolerance policy for cheating, and would never cheat if I was in a relationship that serious, but I wouldn't flip out if I found out they cheated, I would just end the relationship because in my mind they are confirming to me that I was wasting my time with them anyway. I suppose the main thing, probably my narcissistic tendencies, is that even if I thought a girl was perfect, when we get that close I start to be really critical of all their little flaws and it drives me insance. No I don't think it would be too much work, I could keep things chill, but I cant tell the girl shes being too forward without souring things

>>18250699
Holy fucking shit, you sound like my fucking boyfriend. Creepy.

>>18250702
Interesting, how so? Did he get over it fully?

>>18250699
did you ever have the feeling that your dad had to little time for his own interests because he was busy with stuff like work/doing choires/whatever he did?

it's normal for the initial wonder to wear off when you find out the issues and flaws people have. but it tales a mix of being aware that you yourself have flaws too (this is where your narcissism might kick in and make things difficult. do you know of any flaws you have?), that nobody is flawless and then just continue till you find someone whoms flaws aren't deal breakers to you. for example, horrible communication skills can be a deal breaker (althought something that can be learned). her liking to eat her cereals in bed are not. even if the crumbs annoy you and you don't see a good argument for esting in bed. it is not a big deal. maybe learn to divide into real issues and minor annoyances.

i think it's good you have high standarts. just make them about important stuff like "must try to be solution oriented when issues arise" instead of "can't have a cat". if you have a looooong list of minor requirements you need a potential partner to have (can't be higher than 5'5, has to have naturally red hair, can't have freckles, can't have black friends, canmt be active on social media, etc) try to get to the bottom of why they are important to you and break it down to a basic value you want (can't have social media might translate into can't be an attentionwhore. which is not NECESSARILY the same and might make you skip a decent girl because she fell trough your selective process for the wrong reasons).

why do you think you can't tell a girl that you need space to not feel suffocated and that you want to take things slow? a girl that fits you will wholeheartedly agree. one that doesn't obviously has different values and wasn't a good match to begin with.

>>18250721
No my dad is obsessed with cycling and does it every day, he often has plans that don't involve my mum, and likewise for her, they both have interests and lives outside of one another.

Yeah I definitely still have flaws, but I put so much work into fixing majority of my flaws that once I have them under control I can't understand how others don't do the same. If it helps, when I was about 12 I got bullied for the first time by my best friend, except because I had never been bullied, and he was my fucking best friend for like 6 years, I didn't see it as bullying. I became weird for a few years before using common sense and fixing all the things wrong with me. From the age of 14 onwards I became popular in school, funny, relaxed, girls liked me. But that initial bullying made me try to make sure I never had a flaw in my personality again. Minor quirks like that don't bother me in the slightest, and I don't have a really long or specific list of preferences for women either, I just go for the people I find attractive at that particular time.
I'll take your advice though man, and try being open about needing space early on, if she doesn't like it then maybe the next one will.

>>18250745
well, then i don't know why you are so afraid of intimacy myself. maybe you just enjoy your freedom? that's not bad thing. might be that you suddenly change your mindset if you're a bit older and find someone that suits you. no need to try and make something happen that's not suposed to be right now.

one thing that might be an issue is that you try to not have a flaw. i have similar tendencies. selfimprovement and awarenes are extremely important, sure. but it might lead to you keeping people at arms length because you fear that they can see behind your carefully constructed mask. i know i need a lot of time to myself to recover from being with people, although i am very social and everybody would say i'm an extrovert. i suspect that's because it is exhausting to always have my guard up. and the thought of being with someone all the time is draining because that would mean you have to have your guard up 24/7.
basically, you only show people the sides of you you are proud of and will do a lot to hide the things you are insecure about (for me, that's the fear of being lazy, so i can NOT have someone in my apartment if it is not spotless).

i'd definitely say that it's a good approach to not bend yourself over backwards at the beginning of a relationship and instead stay authentic. it will save you a lot of troubles since it leads to great issues if you act like you are ok with spending every night together when in fact you aren't. if someone can't tolerate that then it's better for both to move on instead of trying to make something work on terms that are not going to hold up for very long.

>>18250765
Yeah your point about having a shield is definitely true, I have to always have this air of confidence and stay relaxed. I'm pretty good at it now though after years of practice so its more or less natural for me to be that way now.

I don't have fears of them discovering anything too bad, if we got a bit into the relationship I would share any of the things I'm insecure about.

It could just be a maturity thing, I hope I'll grow out of it sooner or later

Anyone else suffering from the same problem?

>>18250795
i know what you mean. i don't do it consciously either. but i noticed that i get very uneasy of i have no alone moment in a day (which happens quiet a bit if you live with someone and both have a day off...). so i started to try and find out why i got so tende and the answer i came up with is what i just told you. i do it completely automatical. but it is still very draining on an unconscious level. note that this is with the person i am with since quiet some time. i never have the feeling that i'm not "myself" around them. but i guess i am still putting on an act in a slight way.
might be that it is something else in your case, but give it a thought.

it's also not necessarily about sharing insecurities. for me, it takes discilpine to propperly communicate since it doesnmt come naturally to me. it is something i have to kick myself in the ass to do. if i am alone, there is no need to talk about something unpleasant. but if i am with my partner, it might be that we have to talk about our finances, our sex life, what to buy grandma for christmas, whatever. it is a constantly moving setting and you can not only take your own needs into consideration. for example, if your hungry you need to determine if the other person is hungry too and what they would like to eat. then you need tp negotiate and fond a compromise between the two levels of hungry and momentary cravings instead of just fixing yourself a pbj toast, eat it infront of the pc like the slob you are and be done with it. ofc you CAN still do this but not all the time. i think that's the kind of things that make relationships require energy. do we watch a movie or go to bed early and have sex? do we go to xyz's birthday today or do we cancel and spend a lazy sunday? do we brunch or eat breakfast and cook lunch together later? do we invite mary and gerard to our wedding or not? should we stay in this apartment or move to one that will allow us to save 100$? everything needs to be discussed.

>>18250584
>>Irish (Women get wet from the accent alone)
can not stop laughing

>>18250716
He finds it very easy to get along with people at the beginning. Very charming, very interesting, funny, extroverted. But he finds it extremely hard to keep a relationship with nearly anyone. Both because he's not available emotionally (very closed off, shielded, doesn't let anything or anyone touch him) and because he's very easy to bore.
He's very blunt and has a total no-bullshit attitude.
He hates to be responsible for others, mostly - for their feelings, for their entertainment, for their well-being. He never had a romantic relationship because he always felt like he needed to compromise to be with someone.

I think that a big part of why we got together to begin with was that we are each other's best friend. We like the same shit, we have the same sense of humour, we banter.
Another thing is that we better each other. He learnt to let me in and let me take care of him emotionally, and accepted that sometimes he needs to take care of me and love me.
We're both fiercely independent and I have my own stuff going on. I don't need him to be happy, but he's the cherry on top of my life. It is the same for him.
I can handle his honesty, if sometimes he tells me to fuck off I don't get mad, if sometimes he tells me he doesn't want to talk it's okay.
So, huh - he partially got over it, yes. He stopped being as closed off and we talk about stuff now. But a big part is that I am fine with who he is, and I love him for who he is.
We don't have a traditional girlfriend/boyfriend lovey dovey relationship, but we work well together.

Shit this is a long post. Heh. I'm sorry.

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>>18250831
OP here again.
Well you could consider it an act, but when I heard people saying that someone was pretending to be someone they aren't then it got me thinking of that phrase "Fake it till you make it". I live my life now by one sentance more or less. "Be the best version of yourself you can be". Its nothing specific like, become a movie star, or a CEO, much more simple and less taxing mentally. So I strive to do that, make myself competent, independant, attractive, charming, witty, etc. You aren't locked in to one role at birth.

I mean who really decides who you are personality wise? You do. If you have the willpower you can change yourself for the better, learn from your mistakes and become the person you want to be. Thats my philosophy more or less, and fuck the people who think they can comment on your personality improving, they just want to drag you beneath them, don't let them.

>>18250584

so you will find love but you dont want a serious relationship.

stop creating imaginary problems

>>18250842
You were right, he does sound very similar to me. I'm only blunt when I need to be though, like if someone is completely in the wrong and ask me for advice, I'll let them know. I also don't mind being responsible for people entertainment, like on nights out or at parties I don't mind being the focus of a conversation or the one doing all the talking, as long as it encourages others to join in.

This is a nice board by the way, everyone here seems to give good advice or accounts of their own experiences, definitely post here more often,

>>18250895
I do want a relationship, I always put in the ground work and work towards one with girls I really like. But as soon as we get too close I feel caged in and end things. The problem is with me and I'm trying to figure out why

>>18250934

you're doing the math backwards and its confusing you.

you're like a kid who wanted to be a fireman when he grew up and then you grew up and tried being a fireman but you keep quitting because it scares you. and you keep saying 'I REALLY WANT TO BE A FIREMAN WHY CANT I STICK WITH THIS?'

you don't want to be a fireman, not with all it entails. you like the idea of it because you were told it was amazing, but the actual practice is uncomfortable for you, so you rationalzie that you still like it but theres some magical elusive element stopping you.

i was JUST like you dude, i spent years dating and 3 months into the relationship i get sad and uncomfortable and depressed and worried for reasons i couldn't evne understand, and it caused needless drama that lead to the break ups.

now ive been single for 4 years, just having small flings here and there, fucking sluts, and having a damn good time. suddenly no more depression sadness or drama.

its a myth that were all designed to be codependent daters.

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>tfw you cant relate to anyone in the thread

>>18250952
I agree that my mind is at ease when I'm being carefree and just having quick flings. Its an ego booster, reaffirms that you're doing well.
But I find it hard to believe that people can stay like that forever. Our number one goal in life, above everything else, is to pass on our genes to the next generation.

If I end up being some guy who just hits and quits for the rest of my life, and I can't change that then so be it.

But I want to try to get into the right mindframe and mature to the point where I've met someone who I can really vibe with for hours at a time, then fuck and chill out. Thats the goal, but its never been that simple to find a girl I mesh with like that.

you dumb nigger, you are 23 years old.. for fuck sake its still quantity over quality. Worry about relationships when you hit 30 something if you want a real relationship. right now... everybody is fucking everybody.
Stop vibing that you are dateable, and vibe that you are the fuckable. You dumb fucking gimp. fuck... 23.. and this you worry about?

>>18250960

>the whole point is to pass on our DNA to the next generation

sure, but there are two ways to do that

1) impregnate one women and protect her and the child ensuring the child makes it to adulthood

2) impregnate as many women as possible ensuring that even if you're not there to protect them at least a couple of the mothers will successfully protect the child.

these are the two strongest mindsets of early man, and both were fairly successful to the point that neither instinct had been bred out, and in many cases both instincts exist in men. you are much closer to the latter than the former. so your argument is illogical.

science says we desire to have kids sure, but it does not say we desire to have long term monogamous relationships, even if you are of the former instinct, you would still not have the restrictions that our culture puts on men today.

>i find it hard to believe that some people can stay like that forever

why not? im not claiming its perfect and brings everlasting joy. but nothing does. single people tend to yearn for a relationship and people in relationships tend to yearn for freedom. fatties want muscle and muscle men want more food. its natural to want both things, but in the end the thing you want the most will win out.

thatb eing said if you do change in the future, thats fine too, you can always settle down later. theres no point in settling down now, because even if you throw in arguments like 'all the good ones will be taken' by the time you get old enough to enjoy your relationship the person you forcibly married will not be nearly the same person she was.

>>18250991
Well evidently I do vibe that I'm fuckable, and I'm fine with just fucking around right now. But I want to get this intimacy issue fixed long before I meet someone who ticks all the boxes.
It isn't a big deal right now, but there are times where I don't want to get fucked up for a rave or some shit, and just have someone cool to chill out, smoke a bit, watch movies and fuck.

>>18250584
A lot of good advice in this thread but the million dollar question for OP is.
Why do you want a relationship? You are 23, have no trouble getting your sexual needs met, and seem to have a pretty fulfilling life.
You seem to live pretty goal oriented so you need to list what it is you want in a relationship.
In my armchair opinion, you are 23 and not looking to get married and start a family at this point in your life. And why settle down in relationships you knowthat you don't want for 2 to 12 months at a time until you are actually ready to marry and start a family.

>>18251029
not op but the vibe i get is that he doesn't want a relationship NOW, but adress his intimacy issues as soon as possible, which i think is a very good idea.

>>18250992
Listen I'm not gonna fight my urges. I currently can't deal with relationships, and I'm good with that. Whether that ever changes remains to be seen, but I do want to at least try experience being in a relationship for a substantial period of time and see if I change.

Right now, Marriage and Childbirth are not in the picture, I want to live my life carefree for a long time before settling down. I'm not looking to change myself today, just get a better understanding from people who have been there.

>>18251007
alright, well then do the 3 month plan:
date a girl.. mash her good for 3 solid months.. do all that date shit etc. This how you break up with em:
Via sex, just keep ramping up the insanity until she says stop, no, dont. soon as she does - go completely cold.. that your cue to bounce out of the "relationship". She doesn't satisfy you sexually.. next encounter,same girl.. ramp it up again till she says Stop, no dont.. again go cold.
Now either A. she will comply - congrats you got a sex freak now. B. she bounces and guaranteed she tells her friend what a freak YOU are.. guess who starts vibing on you... her friend.. and round and round it goes.
I did that for 10 years.
Wear rubbers bro.

>>18251035
OP here, Hit the nail on the head there, thats exactly it man

>>18251037

well then you got your answer. this is your nature, there's nothing worngwith that, and it may or may not change. there is no way to force a change, you can't have a mindset that says 'oh hey i love dating now' hte best we could offer is telling you to go to therapy where the therapist will claim you have a 'fear' of commitment (as opposed to just a dislike) and will basically rationalize over and over again how its good and you need to be in dating and blah blah blah.

but we can't offer that as it requires a lot of long term brainwashing.

so there you go. live your life. and if yo uwant to try dating someone, go for it. and if you find your self afraid, go ahead and lea ve.

>>18251045

well how are you supposed to address these intimacy 'issues' if you say you're NOT willing to be intimate right now?

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>>18251044
Thats... suprisingly good advice, cheers

>>18251048
you can still learn about yourself when you're not in a relationship. i did that. i wasn't able to have even a slightly decent relationship. so i was single for 6 years and dis a lot of work on myself. now i am in a relationship, still learning every day but it is already god tier as it is.

>>18251048
I get to the point where starting a relationship is the logical next step, then usually bail. I've been putting myself in these situations more frequently to see if it depends on the girl or if its just me. Seems to be just me, so I decided to come looking for adice. Came here, the rest is history.

>>18251047
Thanks man, and to everyone offering advice, its cool to hear from people who have been through it all

>>18251059

learning is fine. but trying to fix your 'intimacy issues' wtihout allowing your self to be that sort of intimate is like saying you are fixing your dieting issues while still eating the same food.

>>18251061

>seems to be me

maybe. i used to think the same thing but i did meet two girls in the last 4 years who i actually stuck with. one ended up moving so that sucked, and the other didn't reciprocate but i still think about her every day.

point is that we are sold this story that romance is something magical, something special, but then we treat it like its a toaster, something we just go out and get and the brand and model don't matter as long as it makes toast.

if romance truly is special, great, hold out until you find someone really special. and just keep doing flings until then.

>>18251071
Yeah I think its important for me not to force it, if I really like them I'll hopefully push through and stick around for awhile.

>>18251132

well there you go. keep on living as is and just deviate if something changes. good luck.

my advice though, invest in men similar to you. as you get older the biggest downside to being single is that most of your friends arent. look around for people who are seemingly permasingle, not just chads who sleep around.

in ten years you'll be grateful.