Had a talk with my gf a while ago. We plan on marrying and has

>>18237148

It takes the magic out of asking someone to marry them, yeah. It's a double edged sword though, because a prenup is smart and you should protect yourself.

Basically, it's trying to use logic in what is inherently an illogical institution.

>>18237148
No.

>>18237159

If I were her, I would prefer being covered because it's a two way street. The only reason to be against it is if you think life is a fairly tale and people don't cheat or lie or if you are worried that you'll get caught.

Why even worry about it if there's not any cheating going on?

>>18237148
>If found cheating, immediate divorce with no monetary ties

Go check with your lawyer, because this probably isn't actually going to stand up in court.

Also, yeah you probably should feel a little bad for insulting your future wife like that. I mean sometimes it's necessary, but you should still feel bad about it.

>>18237170

It's not "worrying" about it necessarily, it's just taking the magic out of the moment. Getting married for most people is the closest thing to fairy tale wish fulfillment they'll ever get, so it's kind of like Peter Pan sprinkling pixie dust on the kids, and then saying "alright before you think your happy thoughts and fly off to Neverland I need you to sign these safety waiver forms and there's a 45 minute class you're gonna need to sit through. Then it's all fun and adventure I swear."

Even if there's nothing to hide, it's not romantic.

>>18237148
I go back and forth about prenups. Yes, it's good to have your ass covered in case things go wrong. But for me, I wouldn't be marrying someone unless I really, truly believed things wouldn't go wrong.

Idk it's just kind of weird going up to the person who believes you'll be together forever and saying "Hey let's sign this because I'm scared things won't work out." It could easily be seen as a sign of distrust, both doubting the strength of the relationship and doubting that your partner will behave reasonably if you break up. If you think your partner is the type of person to try to screw you over if you split up, why are you marrying that person in the first place?

>>18237191

If the marriage is fraudulent and she has the means to provide for herself, why am I supposed to be legally tied to her? Any conflicting assets could be liquidated and the shit would be over with. If I'm giving a college graduate the chance to be a stay at home mother for a long time, she can work for her own money if our relationship is fake, and I'm not going to financially support someone who is perfectly capable of getting a job to pay for life expenses.

The same exact thing goes for her if she becomes the one to make the majority of the income. I'm not excited about doing it, but it literally won't matter unless if one of us actually turns out to be a piece of shit.

>>18237198
Being cheated on is worse than requestion legal protection. I feel bad in a way, but I'm not dropping it because "I do" means nothing to most people.

>>18237211
Because it's estimated that 30%-60% of everyone has cheated on someone. I know people who have been fooled and conned. I don't want to be one of those people and get fucked over when my marriage could end badly. Not everyone has a crystal ball to see into the future, nobody knows what happens 20 years down the road. I know plenty of older spouses who have cheated, it's not like things can't change.

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>>18237148
>getting married

>>18237230

I wasn't saying you shouldn't drop it, I was just trying to explain why she might feel that way. If I ever get married I'm probably going to insist upon a prenup too. The situation in which I wouldn't would be one where she made as much or more than I do and it was pretty clear we were both going to continue our careers well into marriage.

>>18237230
>why am I supposed to be legally tied to her?

Hey, don't get mad at me, I'm not the one that makes laws. I'm just letting you know that you should talk to a lawyer, as not having to pay alimony may not be an option for you depending on where you live.

> I'm not dropping it because "I do" means nothing to most people

You aren't marrying most people. Does it mean something to your future wife? If it doesn't, why are you getting married to her? If it does, then you've got to understand that it's kind of insulting when you frame it that way.

>>18237243

Her job will likely pay more than mine straight out of college considering her field and education. However, she plans on only working that job for 3-7 years (likely lower), then having children, starting a small business, and homeschooling the children.

Essentially, she'll be a dependant within a few years and will be relying on my income entirely, especially if her small business is not very successful.

>>18237241
Exactly.

>>18237255
Almost all are good intentioned from the start. It doesn't mean that people can't or won't change in negative ways. I'm not sure if you just haven't experienced someone conning other people in relationships, but people fuck each other over all the time.

>>18237148
I'd be more insulted about the cheating stuff than anything. Like, if you had even an ounce of faith in me or trust for me, you wouldn't demand a DNA test right off the bat. Maybe if you had reasonable suspicion, like the kid came out black, but dude. You really don't trust your wife? Whats the point of marrying her?

The money stuff I totally undestand though. Lots of marriages end in divorce these days.

What I will tell you though is those terms mean nothing in court. You will still be suing each other for all of your shit, since you likely will never be able to prove "who" it really belongs to. And unless you're honestly going to always have separate bank accounts, it'll be nitty gritty on the money in a joint account too.

Just know this from my dad who did divorce cases for a few years.

Prenup is smart, but if you were as specific in your terms with her as you were with this post, then I'd be offended too. All of your conditions are cheating-specific (the immediate DNA test of children is the one that most set me back) when a prenup should be phrased to protect financial assets specifically; marriages break down for reasons other than infidelity, and your intense focus on just that one breach sends a message of distrust--not the best way to start a marriage.

>>18237279
Any data on big purchases would be recorded. If she pays 50% of the cost of the home, she's entitled to that money should she leave because I cheated on her and she doesn't keep the house. If I pay 50% and she keeps the house, it would only be fair for some form of monetary compensation. There's no reason to be petty over any small purchase, so I'm not very concerned as long as records are kept.

Hopefully, things would easily get liquidated with no problems, I could restructure my assets, and move on without nearly as much pain. I *feel* as though what I'm insisting on makes sense. If one of us falls out of love or finds someone else, I want to simply end all ties and go our own way. It happens all the time to people who would never have expected it. I don't want to make it hard for anyone to leave if they really do want to.

>>18237282
I of course would get everything else standard that comes with the average agreement. I just see cheating as a really big issue that won't be tolerated. People get caught doing the unthinkable every day. I would impose the conditions no matter the circumstances or even if I really did believe that humans aren't capable of deceit. If she wants a future with me it's just the price of things.

>>18237310
Again, just saying its far more complex than that and in the end it doesn't matter. My dad dealt with cases with prenups JUST like that. They were still debating large purchases like cars. And petty small ones a like. Especially in cheating cases like you're afraid of.
Trust me, if you get cheated on you're gonna go into a petty rage trying to get revenge. They all do. Vice versa as well.

>>18237148
You seem too preoccupied about getting cucked to be married at this point.

with an attitude like this i seriously don't comprehend why you're getting married in the first place

also
>has stated that she would say yes to getting engaged if I asked

what the fuck lol

why the HELL are you two getting married? you don't trust her and the excitement and passion of a proposal is already dead literally what is the point lmao

>>18237148
the state will fuck you if you're not careful. you're all good.

Protip.


Dont get married.
if youre commited you dont need a legal document.
Life changes. people change. Expecting to be with someone no matter what is ludicrous. And sure some people can do it. But who knows what you or your partner will want in the future.

>>18237328

I see no reason for it to be devastating unless if she has my biological children, cheats on me, and gets custody. If we don't work out and she cheats, then it sucks, but it's okay because I'm no longer married to a cheater.

I don't want to get marries just to be married. I want to be married because I love someone enough to risk being destroyed emotionally by them. If they don't love me back or they cheat on me, that person simply isn't worth my time. I've had bad break ups that involved defamation of character and false accusations that actually backfired on the girl. I know how fucked up women and men can be whenever they realize their cushy lives are being flipped upside down. If my figurative future ex-wife wants to be petty and take all of the "small" assets when she knows they aren't hers then I would gladly discard them in order go get out of involvement with her. Hopefully this never becomes the case.

>>18237337

I'm not worried about that now. I know people who were cucked and weren't concerned about it when they got married.

>>18237338

She's stated that she would like to get married to me. I actually suggested to do it sooner, originally, but then I decided that it would be a relatively bad idea to get married before college is over for the both of us. That was her original "plan," but as of lately she's informed me that she would like to be at least engaged by the time college is over for us.

>>18237347
These are my feelings as well. I would love to believe all marriages work out, but they don't. Not even most.

>>18237347
ehh there are perks that legal document give though. Main one being if you go into a coma and shit, your partner has basically zero say what happens to you over what an actual relative wants done. Even with power of attorney in some places. Judge almost always sides with blood or marriage, doesn't give a shit about much else.

>>18237148
>>If found cheating, immediate divorce with no monetary ties


or if she puts on 40 pounds...

All child-related issues are off limits for prenups. Also most people do prenups WRONG, which is why they usually do nothing in court. If you're not spending shitloads of money on your prenup then don't expect it to be worth anything in the future.

More importantly: divorce costs half, child support costs everything. I lost a job because the employer lost everything he had.

Getting paternity testing is more important than getting a prenup. On the other hand, most of USA gives a woman 300 days past divorce to produce a baby and then the ex-husband is still the legal father. Marriage overrules genetics, but there are some states without the 300-day rule. If you want more precise info than /adv/ can possibly provide (hint: everyone needs it) then type your goddamn location into motherfucking google.

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>>18237422

It's around ten months or so. If there's a child after that then it more than likely wouldn't be mine or she wouldn't keep it. I really doubt she wouldn't have an abortion if we got separated while she is still in the first trimester. I don't think I have too much to worry about, but I would gladly pay for child support if the child honestly needed it. If I find out that the child isn't mine, then I want legal protection to ensure that it isn't my issue. If it's not mine, she can hopefully find the father, but that's not my concern.

>>18237406
Genius

If you're seriously this obsessed over getting cucked to the point of insulting your future wife like that, you're in no way ready to get married. I'm surprised she hasn't already dropped you.

But what am I kidding, it's pretty obvious you're not listening to anyone in this thread. You're just trying to justify yourself. All you want is to hear that you're right and she's wrong. Ten bucks that you two are going to split even before you start planning the wedding.

>>18237148
No.

Divorce rates are higher than ever.

Theres a time for "ima gonna love you forever!" like pillow time or date night, and theres a time for looking at statistics, facts, living in the real world and protecting your future.

A prenup isnt a bad idea.


Having said that, your terms, sounds like you dont have a lot of trust. Cheating shouldnt even be on your mind at all if your relationship was stable and here you are priming your unborn kids up for dna tests?

You do sound like a bit of an asshat and an insecure faggot, advice aside..

>>18237148
No.

>>18237148
>>18237159
>implying prenups are upheld in court
most are thrown out anyways. judges can throw them out at will. it's why I've never gotten married.

>>18237479
>If I find out that the child isn't mine, then I want legal protection to ensure that it isn't my issue.
There's no such thing, in states with the 300-day rule. She can get pregnant as your ex-wife and you're still the legal father.

Curious? Worried? Bothered? Exit /sad/ immediately and start scraping up some money to take to a family law attorney in your area for a consultation. There's simply NO WAY WHATSOEVER that random anons will be more helpful to you than a sane and competent lawyer who goes to the same courthouse you'll get dragged into after your wife branch-swings to another man.

>>18237599
>it's why I've never gotten married.
cool story bro

Female here. The DNA test is completely insulting. Without cause of doubt, there's no reason. On the chance that you do divorce, sure test the kids then. Otherwise don't insult her like that. I'd never agree to that.

>>18237608
worthwhile reply, actual nigger

>>18237599
The myth: judges throw prenups out because they feel like.

The reality: judges throw prenups out because 99% of them are done entirely wrong and therefore disqualified. Judges are also assholes, but that doesn't mean you can do your own legal homework and expect it to fly.

To put it bluntly - to beat people over the head bluntly until their skulls cave in - you need a lawyer. You need a SPECIALIZED and EXPERIENCED lawyer. You need to know about the laws in YOUR area.

>>18237148
DONT FORGET TO ADD THIS
if she divorces you, she cannot take any of your property
THIS HAPPENS. ADD IT OR SHE WILL TAKE YOU DOWN WITH THE MARRIAGE. ALIMONY. DO NOT FALL FOR IT

>>18237616
>The DNA test is completely insulting.
Not as insulting as being expected to wager 18 years of our future incomes on a maybe.

>why don't you TRUST me
You know exactly why, quit playing dumb.

>>18237406
>or if she puts on 40 pounds
This shit happens. Ive heard stories of girls getting fat and ugly after marriage just because they feel they no longer need to be attractive, and it aint cool

>>18237623
This would invalidate the entire agreement.

>wrong way to do a prenup
>ask anons on the internet

>right way to do a prenup
>you get one expensive lawyer and she gets a different expensive lawyer with zero conflict of interest

Shit costs money, sorry I had to break this to every single /adv/ OP with a legal question.

>>18237634
yeah, you mean most women

>>18237574

If I'm investing 18+ years into my children and a woman, I want to ensure that they're mine. It's not like I'm going to force her to take mandatory lie detector tests for shit. I just want a written agreement of how things will go if we do have a bad situation. I'm trying to find good arguments as to why it's a bad idea. She's already said that she would go through with the terms if I felt as though I wanted them, but that she would rather not have them.

>>18237587
Having seen what marriage without prenup can do to people, no thanks. Same goes for DNA tests. I have family members who have found out that their children weren't theirs long after they got attached.

>>18237607
If I get a written contract of the procedures to be taken, how can the courts supercede it? Isn't it just like a contract? I know little about marriage law, if you couldn't tell.

>>18237616
Legally, I would already would have the right to do so without her knowledge. All that the agreement would say is something along the lines of "the test done (if done) will free me of any parental responsibilities if the results are negative." I may not even get a test done, but it would be stupid to not do so. It's happened to better people than us.

Also, it would be WAY too late at that point and I would love them as my own.

>>18237623
Of course. That's why all large purchased "split up" will be documented. The shared assets will be liquidated for money and then redistributed.

>>18237645

I'm asking for suggestions and opinions. Only a complete idiot would believe someone on here regarding legal matters without double checking.

>>18237689
I've yet to see what's wrong about loving a kid that isn't your own. She must love you enough to not tell you and to not tell the actual father. By her saying she "rather not" she's giving you a chance to drop it without her looking like an ass when she refuses later when the paperwork is done. If you're dead set on it, I'd ask her if there's anything she would want to add.

You should probably check if you're in a state that even honors prenups in the first place. Even if you are, they're still laughably easy to get thrown out my a judge.

You're not wrong for wanting to protect yourself, but telling your gf that you want a DNA test for your kids no matter what is pretty faggy. If you can't trust her, why even get married? Marriage is literally a bond of mutual trust. DNA testing is only something you should do when shit goes down and that trust is breached.

>>18237708
Jesus christ...this is REALLY good b8 m8

>>18237708
>>18237742

Not really. Pretty baity.

>>18237708
>I've yet to see what's wrong about loving a kid that isn't your own.

Nothing wrong with the kid, but the woman goes straight in the trash and stays there. If I found out I was a non-bio father I would switch immediately to fighting for 100% full custody, because that's the only way to avoid giving the woman my future.

>>18237689
>If I get a written contract of the procedures to be taken, how can the courts supercede it? Isn't it just like a contract? I know little about marriage law, if you couldn't tell.
To use an extreme example that should be obvious: If you agree knowingly and willingly sign a contract in which you sell yourself into slavery to me, permitting me to, at my discretion, sell you on to others or treat you however I deem fit would you ever expect that to stand up in court? There are certain things contracts cannot dictate, having a prenup attempt to dictate something it is not allowed to control will get it thrown out.

Another issue I've heard is that prenups are often thrown out because they're written with only one side having legal representation. If your fiance doesn't have a lawyer there that represents her (ie. not your lawyer), you may find your prenup thrown out.

Also your would-be prenup isn't dictating the terms of your would-be divorce, you're attempting to have it dictate the terms of your marriage. Which is fucking retarded.
>If we have a kid, they will get DNA tested as soon as possible

>>18237230
Because you made the gamble and chose to trust her. That's the point of marriage you selfish faggot, to put your life into someone's hands in order to form a complete union between two people.

>>18237742
OP is the one who got everybody buttrustlebaited.

"Just accept the paternity fraud and shut up" is an old meme from the dawn of third-wave feminism.

>>18237754
DNA test does not require her permission. What does require her permission is acknowledgement that I won't be legally responsible for a child that's not mine.

It's not "slavery."

>>18237758
>put your life in somebody else's hands
>sub-50% stability rate

This ain't Disney, and you're not royalty. Shove your fake morals up your ass, light the fuse, start the countdown and blast off.

>>18237273
Your intentions are explicitly that you don't trust her. If you don't trust someone, don't marry them.

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>>18237742
>>18237749
HIGH QWALITY BAIT DETECTED. SOMEONE GET THE ROD.

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>>18237765

What about half of marriages that start with trust and end up with none at the end?
>>18237767

Thought provoking.

>>18237761
Child custody/support is off limits for prenups. Probably not in every single part of the planet, but probably all of US and nearly all of the developed western world.

Can you fight the cucking, at all? A local and specialized lawyer can answer this. If he isn't local (your specific area) then the advice means next to nothing.

Any legal/medical suggestions on /adv/ besides "get a fucking lawyer/doctor" are trash.

>>18237762
maybe pathetic scared little faggots like you shouldn't be concerning themselves with marriage.

>>18237761
You might be a little slow Anon. I didn't say a prenup or DNA test or whatever was slavery. I was saying slavery is illegal, a contract in which the terms for a slavery are drafted would be thrown out in court.

You can't draft just anything you like up in a contract and expect it to stand. It has to be legally permissible first.

>DNA test does not require her permission.
I didn't say it did. I said you're a retard for attempting to draft up terms for how your marriage and birth of children will be carried out in a prenup.

>>18237765
Your line of thinking will quickly lead to an environment of no marriages at all - also I agree with you.

>>18237779

Half of all marriages end in divorce. Your argument is awful and dies not reflect reality.

>>18237781

I'll try to enforce it legally with whatever method I can. I'm obviously not concerned enough to pay lawyer fees for consultation at the moment. I am listening to what you're saying.

>>18237785
I feel like my goal is a middle ground.

>>18237777
If you're asking questions like that, the answer is "don't get married."

Marriage is saying you're willing to gamble your life on someone. That's literally the marriage vows that you will be saying, that you give your life to someone.

So if you're busy worrying over whether they fuck it up, then you are not ready to make those vows. You aren't ready for marriage.

You don't have to get married you know, it's perfectly valid to say you just won't ever give someone else that kind of trust because of the world being the way it is.

In iraq.. yes you can, but the friendship will end right after one if you get married.
Unless your husband/wife is open minded person .

>>18237793
Your goal doesn't even get through the entry gate.

You fundamentally misunderstand the concept of marriage. If marriage as an institution is breached too much for you to risk it, then don't risk it and DON'T GET MARRIED.

Some people trust, and some people are scared. It's okay to be scared, just don't marry.

>>18237803
This is nothing but idealism; go back to watching Disney movies.

"I don't want to protect yourself" translates directly into "I want to rob you."

>>18237803
>>18237795

I want most of the things that come with marriage, except I don't want the courts to ruin my life by pegging me to a cheating ex-wife or a bastard child longer than desired.

>>18237777
>What about half of marriages that start with trust and end up with none at the end?
That's a divorce statistic, not a trust statistic. People can divorce for all manner of reasons, and they may well still trust one another after. Hating someone, growing apart, or having been pressured to marry them in the first place does not mean you don't trust them. Marrying someone you explicitly do not trust is a very big mistake. Either work on your trust issues or don't marry.

And who's to say they started with trust in their ex-spouse at all? What's more likely to fail? A marriage someone was pressured into by their spouse and/or in which they had absolutely no trust for their partner, or a marriage in which there is mutual trust and desire by both parties to be married?

Both might fail, of course, but ultimately one's starting with much higher odds for failure than the other.

>>18237816

I do trust her, but only idiots write blank checks and trust 100%.

Nobody is pressured to marry anyone at all. I brought the topic into the relationship fairly early because members in my family tend to marry early. I currently don't wish to get married, but an engagement with an undisclosed wedding date would be satisfactory by all means. She simply stated that she wants to be engaged to me right now. There's no rush to get legally married, I just want to be prepared for when I do.

>>18237815
Then get a good lawyer and a common law marriage. you don't need an actual marriage to enjoy the legal privileges.

It'll probably come across as a huge spit in the face to your partner though.

>>18237825
>I trust her, I just don't trust her. At all. Even a little.

If you trusted her ~even slightly~ then you wouldn't immediately push for a DNA test no matter what. If you trusted her even like, 10%, then you would say something like "if I come across anything fishy I'm gonna ask for a paternity test."

But you didn't say that. You said it would happen no matter what. That isn't even trusting 0.01%. That's precisely 0% trust.

My dad was married for 20 years.
My mom divorced him and now he lost everything.

Things happen. Protect yourself

>>18237852
I don't trust her 100%.
I don't trust her 0%.

To have either trust level with ANYONE is stupid. I trust her a lot. If I couldn't trust her any more than I possibly could, I would still push for a DNA test. If trusted her more or less, it wouldn't matter, I would still want legal protection should the child not be mine. If she wants to claim me as the father, she forfeits the right for me to check his DNA.

See >>18237861
His dad probably wishes he was a little more prepared. Maybe his dad bought the "trust your wife 100% for she isn't capable of deceit" spiel that some people here are pushing.

>>18237861
Kill your mom

Prenups are a scam for most people.
Do you own a family business, a house, have kids from prior marriage, or large inheritance? If not, a prenup won't do much to help.

The state you choose to live in and how you do your banking mostly determines how well you can protect assets. In many states, if you earned an inheritance post-marriage your wife could still get the money no matter what the prenup says.
I trust my wife but I've talked to my (wealthy) parents and my portion of their estate will be held in an offshore account in a trust. A US court cannot touch the money in case of a divorce, nor can they threaten contempt because it will still technically be in the control of my parents estate.

>>18237148

those things arent actually things that can be included in a prenup though.

A dna test is literally a cheek swab. In the USA, you could swab your kid and yourself, get the DNA test, and if it comes back without a match hire a PI to find proof of infidelity. Then you can use the PI evidence as proof in a court case that the kid isn't yours.

>>18237148
>should you feel bad

Hopefully. But just a little bad and mostly laugh at how silly it was to waste time and money on a prenup when you and your wife are celebrating your 50th anniversary.

Marriage was created by the Jew to make money off wedding ceremonies. Just use your words and actions to show you want to stay with her forever. Don't feed the Jew.

>>18237148
Any woman that has problems with the conditions of a prenup is already breaking them or planing on breaking them. Just a FYI

>>18239166
>modern whores masquerading as women
>50 year marriage
O I b laffin

>>18237616
>I'd never agree to that.
Why?
Sad reality is that things like these happen. Men raising children of other men. Its just not right.
Its kind of harsh putting it on a prenup, but what else can a man do given todays laws? If it is not specified one might end up paying alimony for someone elses child.

>>18237852
>t. Cheating roastie
Trust but verify, cuck

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>>18237148
Ask yourself this. How many sexual partners has your gf had before you?
If that number was more than 0 the you automatically have 50% chance of the marriage ending in divorce. Do you want to risk your assets and loss of future income on a coin toss?

>>18237148
>marriage

I hope you picked a good slave master that gives you breaks of fresh air. I know many slave masters who don't even give their husbands time to spend with their friends. also enjoy living your whole life with a gun pointed to your head and her pulling the trigger in a divorce. Divorce courts are very expensive and they are very corrupted because they want to make money out you.

>>18237148
Prenups, if they need to be invoked, are no guarantee of stress-free divorce. They can be contested in court. It's a contact, and every lawyer will tell you, "every contact has a loophole."

>>18239212
Anyone who feels offended by being asked to sign something saying "I'm not a fucking douchebag" is necessarily a douchebag.

What rubbish logic.

>>18237616
he has every right to know and you are lucky you never have to worry about paternity fraud as a female. Whatever comes out of your womb is 50 percent of your DNA. Men have no idea unless you do a paternity test and raising a child that is not yours is catastrophic for men.

Haven't read all the comments but do the smart thing. Cheating is the worst and having your ass safe means a lot. Women, even your beloved wife, can get awfully petty with it comes to these things and 99% she'll make it sound like it was your fault.
Speaking from experience. Closest I've ever been to actually commiting a crime. Also come from a family with a cheating dad so I know how this shit can ruin a life. Do the smart thing, you and me both know life ain't sunshine and rainbows.

>>18237338
>what the fuck lol
Not everyone goes for the fairytail bullshit that inevitably collapses, anon. This lad is doing the right thing.

>>18237148
1. Don't feel bad.
2. Get the best lawyer who specializes in prenuptial agreements that you can afford.
3. Babies usually resemble the father at birth, this is a remarkable evolutionary built in paternity test. Also you can easily get a DNA test done after your baby is born without your wife having to know.

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>>18239788
>>18239132
>>18239224

This is my goal.

>>18239093
I will have at least two rental properties in my name on top of a house in a rather short period, I expect. My father isn't doing well and he wants to split his assets evenly among my brother and I. I'll likely sell the properties to him or just pay him a portion to caretake the land.

>>18239095
I'm sure some sort of agreement can be drawn up as a form of contract showing unanimous decisions regarding divorce procedures. Even proof in writing would likely help.

>>18239189
Oi vey. You're somewhat right. It's wayyyy too much about finances and fucking over the man in any available way possible.

>>18239212
>>18239249

I agree to both statements. She's already agreed that she would, however.

>>18239286
It upsets me how smug women can be about the topic some time. If it's cheating, that's one thing, but you'll never invest 18+ years on a child who is the result of an ultimate form of betrayal. The worst part is that most events/affairs never get found out.

>>18239311

Tell me more, anon

>>18237170
>If I were her, I would prefer being covered because it's a two way street
Already is, senpai

Entire court system, legal system, social lives, it's all in her favor. A woman has almost no risk in a marriage. It's all gains, with no costs.

>>18237347
Say that again when you can't be next to your partner as she's dying cause you're not married.
It happens here in the us. Not married? Not related? Sorry can't be back there, and you sure as hell cant make any decisions regarding them or their health.

>>18237148
You are being completely reasonable. Do it. She's just hoping for a free option on taking all your stuff if she gets bored of you someday based on muh feminine mystique. The prenup isn't to protect you from her as-is: it's to protect you from some potential future version of her.

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>>18237148

>>18237148
>>If we have a kid, they will get DNA tested as soon as possible
I'm all for pre-nups and my fiance felt insulted when I brought up that I want one no matter what because that's how I was raised. He thought it was stupid, but "whatever"ed it. That one is a little weird though. DNA as soon as possible? Like you don't think your child together would be yours? :/ Just points to an insecurity in yourself that you are taking out on your marriage.

>>18240447

People who trust their wives more than I trust her get fucked over all the time. I'm not rolling the dice no matter how much I fool myself into thinking that this one "couldn't" do it.

>>18240430
This summarizes my feelings. People can change drastically in a very short period of time. I don't want to be caught with my pants down.

>>18240308
This is a lie. You can use a medical power of attorney easily without being married.

>>18240469
Won't rly convince me on that one, but good luck.

>>18237148
No. You've done what's right for you, and the fact that she's agreed to that means that she is just thinking logically. She's "insulted" because she's been culturally brainwashed to feel that way about it, but you've agreed to the same conditions that she did. If you cheat, she's free.

Women only get upset about a prenup because it means if the marriage is over, they are only left with what is actually theirs, which is usually nothing.

When that one dude from 50 Shades makes her sign a safety waiver and consent form before they can fuck
>OMG that's so fucking hot, he's like a sexy lawyer devil man...

When you ask, "Hey honey, I'd like to share my life with you, but is it okay if we have a safety net in case something crazy happens?"
>You're a misogynist pig! I knew you weren't the one!

>>18240540
That's obv not the case here, but thanks for posting?

>>18237479
go to an attorney for sure, but add in a will and testament and a little shit life insurance policy and sell it like that.
>encase i ever die you are one of the benefactors
>if im in a coma
>i want to be buried not cremated etc
and apart of all that stuff just coincidentally happens to be a prenup

>>18237639
not if it was stated she gets a lump sum of money. thats what bill murry did and she got 7 million dollars and nothing else as if that wasnt enough

>>18237587
>Divorce rates are higher than ever.
They're dropping since the 80s.

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>>18237795
then why would anyone buy health insurance or home owners insurance or car insurance?


BECAUSE YOU CANT CONTROL OTHER PEOPLE AND THEY SOMETIMES CAN DO UNPREDICTABLE SHIT

>>18237148
I told my husband that if he wanted a prenup, I would completely understand. Marriage is typically detrimental for men, given that women can take advantage of them in so many ways. It's not like these people walk into marriage expecting the other person to fuck them over. They're usually very happy in the beginning and believe in the best of their partner. People can change though. I think most women still romanticize marriage and don't really think about what this could cost their partner if things don't go well. They don't understand what's at stake and so they take it personally, as if you're already accusing them of something.

>>18239132
but she will freak out when you "decide to wait a few days" to sign the guardian cards

>>18241073
When I sign a car insurance is because I'm not sure that I won't fuck up while driving and I don't trust myself and I don't trust other drivers.

Why getting married if you don't trust your wife? What's the point in promising someone they have your blind trust and your love for the rest of your life if you actually don't? What does it mean to you?

If you get a prenup you're invalidating the meaning of marriage itself.

>>18239249
>i tell the truth so much that i refuse to sign a piece of paper acknowledging that I swear to tell the truth

>>18240469
Change doesn't happen overnight. Marriage and long term relationships in general are about making the conscious choice to grow together, rather than apart. If you reach a point where things are getting bad, it's about taking a step back, looking at how you got there, and fixing it. It's about getting counselling for your shit if need be, be it individual or couple's counselling. It's about putting the relationship first.

You don't just wake up one day and suddenly your spouse or girlfriend is the kind of person who'd cheat on you. That happens through a long amount of time spent complacent on both sides. Through ignoring problems instead of fixing them. If you don't think you or your girlfriend are the type to work to maintain a relationship, then don't marry. If you do believe you are both willing to put in the effort a healthy relationship needs regularly, then don't worry.

>>18241087
>If you get a prenup you're invalidating the meaning of marriage itself.
kek fuck you. by that logic getting a marriage license from the government is also destroying the institution bc the government has nothing to do with it

>>18237587

>> theres a time for looking at statistics, facts, living in the real world

In that case you should actually go and look up some real statistics then. Divorce rates have been falling for a long time - among the young professional cohort (e.g. people who get married between 24 and 31 or something around there) divorce rates are down to 33% and dropping. A lot of people like to pull that 50%+ stat out of their ass because they read it from some random article someplace and keep hearing it repeated. That statistic was from the peak after 80's and 90's when divorce was becoming more socially acceptable, more available, more and more women were entering skilled professions, and because women weren't expected to stick around while their husbands beat the shit out of them or cheat left and right.

Btw, prenups aren't some kind of magic contract. Typically they only cover what's there BEFORE the marriage because that's the entire point of getting married - by being legally married you become a financial unit. Everything you gain thereafter is assumed to be gained due to the combined efforts of both partners.

This is why a lot of dumbasses get their shit thrown out of court. They think that because they're the breadwinner that every cent "belongs" to them. They fail to understand that raising kids and maintaining the household is considered a economic contribution to the partnership. There are other costs to the women as well - because she had to play suzy home maker, her opportunities for career development are reduced.

Now, if both of you are working professionals and contribute to the marriage then that's a different story. Different states deal with this in different ways, but that's why some states are no fault - they'll just split it all 50/50.

>>18241098
Not really. The state ensures the validity of marriage as a contract. The church used to be the guarantee before.
It doesn't invalid the institution in any way.

>>18241103
wouldnt the rates of divorce going down be tied there being less marriages to begin with?

>>18241106
divorce rate = divorces / marriages.

Unless you meant that only people who truly love each other and are meant to each other marry now and that's why they divorce less? I don't know.

>>18241106

No, because 30 divorces in 100 marriages is still 30% while 500 divorces in 1000 marriages is still 50%.

>>18241109
from what i understand people are not getting married as young so i then assumed that meant that only people who are more likely to be in love get married since they are older and have more maturity but i am extrapolating at that point
>>18241104
that makes sense actually good point. still though i disagree with you that prenup is a bad thing there is protections for both parties if my future mate asked that of me i wouldnt give a shit and would gladly sign it after reading through and agreeing to it
>>18241111
see above a lesser amount of marriage population would indicate something is changing in the culture that it wasnt as valued or something like that but i get your point

>>18241114
I remember reading that most divorces occur within the first year of marriage. But as the other anon stated, these are marriages within a specific age group that the divorce rate is dropping in.

>>18241114
I think that people in their late mid-late 20s have the best chances of being happier for longer because they have the maturity and the financial stability that younger people don't have, but still have less baggage and more energy/drive to stick together that some older people don't have.
So, yeah, I think that the way marriage is now is probably the best shape it has been in decades.

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>>18241130
>>18241125
also good points

>>18241095
Many otherwise healthy relationships have infidelity. Women and men who cheated for the first time were often surprised by themselves according to a large survey. It can happen to anyone at any point in time for no good reason. They just chalk it up as a mistake that won't happen again and never tell anyone.

>>18241104
We're both hard atheists, but I'm particularly an anti-theist in most respects. I don't care about what the Bible says a marriage should be, I only want a marriage with a wife where we follow our own rules. She wants this as well, but we have varying concepts on what exactly is wanted. We compromised, and this is the solution currently.

>>18241103
A third is still too big of a risk to go with the wind.

>>18241106
I see the logic in this statement. There is going to always be a fixed group of people who will marry for life and there's a fixed group of people who will fail every marriage.

If group B reduces by not getting involved in marriage, group A becomes larger overall because of a reduced sum of the total.

There are also people like me who may not want to get married because it's designed to fuck men at every turn if it commonly fails.

I would be fine with a prenuptial, that's completely reasonable. Maybe invite her to a financial advisor who can talk with both of you present about the best ways to ensure neither of you gets fucked over in the divorce proceedings (aka, she gets what she needs to raise the kids without drowning in money issues if you split up, but you won't be left robbed of all your shit)... to involve her and not just make it something you "push" on her.

Having said that I would not carry the children of a man who doesn't trust them to be theirs. That goes even beyond not trusting that I'm loyal, it would mean that he thinks I'm capable of taking chances with the man I'm fucking around with and keep the child that is potentially the result of my infidelity. That's a grave fucking accusation. And it doesn't feel great if worldwide by far most men trust the baby to be theirs, but you happen to love a man who thinks you're capable of being such a soulless cunt.

>>18237148
>>If we have a kid, they will get DNA tested as soon as possible
Are you fucking blind
You can see if the kid has your features or not

>>18242169
Anyone is capable of anything. It still happens to people even if they expect it not to. The sad thing is that most men find out too late or don't find out at all.


>>18242218
I've firsthand seen when a man can't tell that the child isn't his. Besides that, if the birth already happened then you're probably too late if you're in the wrong place.

>>18242381
In theory, but you don't marry "anyone". And most people do find it very possible to trust their loved ones to at least not betray them on such a scale.

It's up to your girlfriend how she feels about it. I am just saying for input that I would not be okay with it. Realize that you won't be the one putting your children on this world. She will have to carry the physical burden, not just of the pregnancy and birth but also of the nursing and keeping her newborn around her 24/7 at first. That is a lot to ask of someone while making it obvious that you do not trust them when it comes down to it, especially when there's so many men who have no problem with that.

>>18237148
I really would not see a future with someone so fundamentally distrustful, especially given I hadn't done anything to deserve it. I wouldn't marry you or have your kids if I were her.

>>18242439
>>18242448

If that's a deal breaker for you, then you're way too sensitive for me regardless. I'm always aware that she could leave me for someone less demanding, but as it turns out, there's more to me than just this one opinion and she loves me still. It takes two adults to birth a child, and I seriously doubt I would agree to have one with her until we get married and compromised to a reasonable degree. Like I've stated many times, she already agreed to it, but stated that it would be insulting. If I'm expected to foot the bill for woman and child, I need my concerns addressed as well.

>>18242461
It is insulting. It seems like you only made this thread to circlejerk and argue against anyone actually trying to explain to you why your gf is insulted. She is right to be. If you don't feel bad about it great for you, jerk yourself off some more while you namefag. You've made up your mind and evidently don't give a fuck about her reaction so why are you still replying? This isn't advice anymore.

>>18242461
>It takes two adults to birth a child
Nope. It takes two adults to conceive a child, one to birth it. You're the one who gets to cum inside of her. Then she carries it around for nine months while watching her diet and not drinking alcohol (or smoking), possibly feeling nauseous as shit, having hormonal moodswings that make her feel like a teenager for the first time in years. Then she can experience the joy of birth and having her vagina ruptured, possibly leaking urine or having a shit excuse for a body for the rest of her life. And then there's still getting out of bed throughout the night to nurse and having your nipples clamped down on.

Aka, you impregnate her then she gets to do literally all the work to carry your children and make sure they get born. The only 50/50 input is biological and (if all goes well) parenting once the kid has grown out of infancy. Nature is not fair and as I said, this is not something I'd personally ever want to go through supported by a man who doesn't entrust that I am not secretly fucking him over in the most thorough way possible.

If she does, great, different strokes for different folks and I already mentioned that your partner's opinion is all that counts at the end of the day.

>>18242479
I forgot to add but another thing is - okay, so the DNA test proves that the kids are yours. So you would "trust" me on that.

But if you don't trust me not to cheat... tough shit, there is no way to scientifically prove that I don't like there is to prove that a kid is genetically yours.

Pretty shit to exclusively commit yourself to someone sexually who will never 100% believe that you're even doing that.

>Aka, you impregnate her then she gets to do literally all the work to carry your children
You forgot who pays for her living during that time and after, when she is looking after the child.

>>18237148
What are HER prenuptial stipulations?

>>18242487
Judging by how much of a fucking jew OP is she should demand a salary compensation for every year she wasted taking care of the OP's spawn instead of furthering her career.

>>18242485
No, but they're different things. First of all it's a different kind of investment, she could literally die giving birth. It's not an investment of assets, it's her health, her bodily functioning that's on the line. (Once again, many women never 100% restore from giving birth. It's taboo so you don't hear about it a lot but mild incontinence is extremely common, to name something. Humans evolved to have heads that are essentially too big for vaginal birthings.)

Secondly, you have a choice, you could tell her to contribute to the relationship financially. Unless you live in some third world country where women can hardly find work, that's not an unreasonable request by any means. Whereas she is inherently forced to carry the brunt of the responsibility and risk for having children, whether she wants to or not, she simply cannot opt out.

>>18242504
> First of all it's a different kind of investment
Dont forget maternal bond and happiness she experiences because of bearing children.
> you have a choice, you could tell her to contribute to the relationship financially
Pregnant women dont make money, they are not suited to work for the reasons you stated.
And all this first world financial aid is very restricted to small percentage of wealthy countries and could end any day.
Come on, one child is nothing. Women used to bear 5-10 children over the course of their life.
I think the investment is equal for both, unless the man leaves, of course.

>>18242469
I have gotten plenty of advice from this thread. Your comment of, "I won't birth your child, you mysogynist pig," is really of little use because she already agreed to it. You can say it's insulting or propose a compromise, but you only came here to let me know what you, a stranger on the internet, would do. If you were her and you let me for this reason, I couldn't blame you, but that's not the situation at hand.

>>18242479
You seem to have missed the part where I'm going to be 100% financially responsible for this woman and our child/children for 18+ years. I'm not underplaying motherhood, but you must realize that I could just find another woman who would gladly take that situation should she decline. It's not easy to be a father and provide for your whole family.

>>18242487
She trusts me enough not to fuck her over. But she's a woman who appeals to emotion and has been bit in the ass by it before. As it stands, she doesn't want any stipulations for her benefit. I explained scenarios in which she would benefit, and she now understands why they're reasonable at the very least.

>>18242501
She doesn't even want to enter the industry. She's only going to college because it's free for her and she told me that she wants to avoid working for as long as she possibly can.

For a free ride through life by not working, all that she has to do is marry me and have my children. I'm not forcing her to do anything.

>>18242533
I didn't call you a mysoginst pig. Your projection and victimization complex simply because someone disagrees with you only proves my point. If you didn't value the opinion of strangers on the Internet, you wouldn't have made this thread so that line of dismissal is hypocritical at best. It's like I said, you only value opinions that agree with yours.

>>18242517
>Dont forget maternal bond and happiness she experiences because of bearing children.
I'm not trying to imply that she is doing it FOR you. Obviously anyone having children should ideally really want those children and to become a parent.

But it is something that you, again hopefully, want with equal passion and she will be the one who has to deal with the physical toll while you get the joys of parenthood without the gory details.

It depends on the kind of work, I don't know what your girl would be qualified to do, there's stuff you can do from home, comfortably behind the computer.

>one child is nothing. Women used to bear 5-10 children over the course of their life.
What does this even mean? It's physically possible, yes. Men used to do such physically straining work that at forty or fifty all their joints were useless and they were old men. Would you like such a fate just because people historically had to deal with it?

>investment is equal for both
If you zoom out to see the bigger picture and it's a mutual, healthy relationship where the man is supportive then I generally agree. And of course being a woman who wants kids some day I think it is a great honor to be able to grow another life inside yourself.
That doesn't mean that if you focus on the part of having a kid, she does the actual work and risks more personal and long-lasting shit than losing some cash. And it makes her supervulnerable: just like you are worried about cheating, she needs to trust that you'll still find her attractive when she has a huge veiny belly (it is quite likely for men to cheat during pregnancy), that you won't stray on her after giving birth when she's suffering sleep deprivation, leaking milk, has a post partum loose stomach and a stitched up vagina you can't fuck.
Personally I would not trust a man with such a cynical outlook to sincerely support me through all that. Does he think anyone will fuck anyone over at any time because that's how he ticks himself?

>>18242549
>that you won't stray on her after giving birth when she's suffering sleep deprivation, leaking milk, has a post partum loose stomach and a stitched up vagina you can't fuck
This is why men chose one woman to be the mother of their children and provide her with everything, but fuck some whores on the side without emotional involvement. Madonna/whore complex, classic psychology. This is how it was for centuries and everyone was happy.

>>18242533
>You seem to have missed the part where I'm going to be 100% financially responsible for this woman and our child/children for 18+ years.
And apparently you're fine with that, because you could find a woman who can make or already has money of her own. Or perhaps you even want her to be a stay at home mother for ideological reasons that it's best for the kids. Either way you have a choice and she does not, she has to make do with being the one making it happen if you both want children.

>but you must realize that I could just find another woman who would gladly take that situation should she decline.
If you don't care whether she or another woman fills the void of girlfriend/babymaker then that would be a whole issue in itself to most.

And regardless, as I mentioned she could also find a man who will be happy to have kids with her and trust her.

>It's not easy to be a father and provide for your whole family.
I'm not saying it is, but again, if you want a woman who carries her own weight financially you could easily make that a prerequisite looking for a partner. You found someone who is a financial dead weight and apparently you don't mind that enough to call it off.

Also for the record, I'm not necessarily trying to imply that having a baby is worse than providing. It depends on so many personal factors (do you hate or love your job? how many hours? does she hate or love being pregnant? what are the consequences of giving birth for her? and so on). Just that it touches more directly upon the (lack of) trust with a DNA test than the money factor. But mostly I am just focusing on this because I am trying to shed a light on why it can be hurtful and raise doubts that you have this (talking about the DNA test, personally I think a prenup should be default) test. As I mentioned in another post, does that mean you will never truly believe she's faithful either, even if you're convinced that the kid is yours? That's pretty depressing.

>>18242562
>This is how it was for centuries and everyone was happy.
Not exactly. "For centuries" marriage was just a way to survive and had little to nothing to do with love, let alone lust. You can't compare that to today's situation.

All women are whores get the DNA test 110%

What's that saying...if men hace written it, men can nullify it..or something like it. Prenups dont mean anything in court. You put cheating in prenup, her lawyer will say define cheating. You say someone else's penis in her vagina, he will say it only went in her ass...then go on to prove how sperm can trickle from ass to pussy and make someone pregnant without penis going in the pussy.
This was a hypothetical but do you see my point?

>>18237148
Ur a cuck