so going to university to do any sort of creative art is completely

Unless youve got an in for a media company or are super talented then yes

>>17953721
but if you were super talented then how would the qualification help? doesnt seem worth the time or the debt

>>17953695

not ANY creative art. you have to remember that just because an industry is more competitive doesn't mean that its non existent.

going for acting? probably a waste of time.
going for film editing? not a horrible idea.

going for painting? yeah thats pretty dumb.
going to graphic design? not as dumb.

most people also dont realize that an art degree is good for basic office employment. i got an associates in film and now i run a successful business.

>>17953695
I have a housemate who just finished a Master's in some kind of art a few months ago. All she does now is sit around and smoke weed while looking for a job in "her field", whichever meme field that is.

>>17953695
It depends.

Training can be enormously helpful, but if you are currently not creating art and trying to learn on your own now, you probably don't have the drive to be an artist, let alone the talent to be a successful one.

>>17953735
>going for painting? yeah thats pretty dumb.
>going to graphic design? not as dumb.

On what merits? Want a job doing graphic design? Good luck

>an art degree is good for basic
Yes, and doing a fine art degree will most likely prop you up with the fascilities for more creativity, since your skill set can involve anything from photoshop and video/sound editing to rendering paint to look like real life and casting massive aluminium sculptures. Not to mention working with relational aestethics and performance (working with people, in front of an audience) With graphic design you're basically limited to Adobe. Fine artist will by default be more equipt for thinking outside the box, which is not a meme.

Sure, more fine artists than designers fall into the weed lifestyle, but then again, you don't need to belong to those statistics.

I would say yes and no.

These days, quite a lot of it is no. The cost of university is so crazy that you've got to seriously consider the return on your investment or just the lost potential by being there. Back when I was studying being a student was akin to being on welfare, so you basically got 3 years of free money and housing in order to network and develop your craft alongside some of the very best people from around the country with only a very light academic load to shit things up.

Now I'd expect it to be heavily vocational and to try and deliver some sort of job market awareness alongside it rather than 'pure' arts otherwise students would be returning to shoot the places up once reality bites and nobody padded them with the notion it is there fault somehow that an arts degree is worthless. But for me, I managed to make it stretch to 5 whole years free to git gud before I had to join the real world.

If you are talented and connected and working and getting paid already? No. If you can't think what doors those letters after your name might open that you need opening, teaching, tuition, history, research, writing, consulting etc? No.

It did allow me to enter an office job and progress to management level because having a degree and meeting people and knowing things make you move on a different level compared to blue collar types, but don't except to earn more than them unless you studied something and can get shit done.

Btw this office experience is worthwhile if you want to establish your own business. Careers aren't for life any more, I'd say that the career progression of a creative might actually be more creative these days.

Also I tend to hate the contrived art and work of professional types. I prefer and seek out the amateur stuff done by simple obsessive types who just love or can't stop doing what they do. You don't need formal study, you just need thousands of hours of practice.

>>17953772

>want a job in graphic design? good luck

again, its comparative. jobs exist. there are many of them. it scompetitive but it is a normal career. being a painter is not, there aren't (m)any jobs for being a painter in the artistic sense. best case scenario is producing 30 dollar sets of exact duplicates they sell on amazon.

>all that other nonsense

all im saying is that there is a general job market that doesn't require a specific degree but does require an education. most office owrk hires someone with a degree, but they dont need to have any particular focus, they just want someone who went to college.

>>17953695

You don't need degree to do art.
Do something normal like EE, and draw something in your spare time.

>>17953777
>greentext
I've been selling my paintings on a somewhat regular since 2002. Somewhat, because I don't negotiate with galleries.
I've had a few part time jobs, to pay bills, but apart from for about 13 months beginning in February of 2010, I've had independent studios since I was in high school. At one point, after graduating in 2008, I ran a cafe. I've had artist initiated exhibitions (and a couple of institution based shows) 1-3 times a year every year since graduating. Summer this year I have a book contract with a publisher who wants to publish a graphic novel/poetry gig by me. This week I signed a contract for work at one of my countries larger theatres, where I'll be working for art directors, producing props.

It's a life of uncertainty and unpredictabilities, but I'd rather do this, than designing news paper ads for malls. I got no problem getting jobs if I need to, and people buy my paintings, even though I've been very laid back about it. Most designers will not be creating very fulfilling stuff, but you gotta eat, I guess.

One of my old band mates had his own business as an illustrator/marketing consultant/brand development expert and all sorts of other shit. He did very well out of it, but he hated it because there was almost no freedom to work on your own thing and it was constantly pitching and talking and trying to gain business through basically selling your services.

When you deal with businesses who have preconceived business based ideas about concepts such as professionalism, reliability, competence and all the usual things which allow you to ask for a decent amount of money for your services you've got to look the part on their terms using their language and basically realise you've got to play the role of the professional creative, out there, but only like 'gosh his shoes were interesting!' not out there like, authentically living and doing what you want creatively.

He quit the whole thing and started to work as a artist full time a few years back. Luckily he did well enough with his business that he has no major bills, his wife earns good money and has an established career, he has a nice house and studio. He can basically play at it using the experience he gained to bring in enough to put food on the table.

He is much happier, but he is also like, 40-something.

>>17953695

Let me break this down in a way everyone can understand.

The degree is only as useful as the degree holder. Creative art? This could mean anything from fine arts to photography, to media studies, to graphic design.

But what is most important is how HARD you are willing to work. For example, I am in a media studies production program. It is a better field than media studies theory program. So that is some points in my favor. Some kids are there and want to become directors, or producers, or work in Hollywood. I want to work in broadcast journalism. My desired career path is more realistic and obtainable. I also have several friends and a family member who work in the field I am studying. So there are more positive points for myself. I work extremely hard. I edit and film every chance I get. I have a vimeo, youtube, twitter, and Facebook page just for my video work. My peers? They barely take out equipment out and do the least amount of work for assignments. Also, I think I have some positive interaction with my instructors. I've been asked to help on project they're working on, and some have given me instruction outside the classroom.

Now if you take the average fine arts student, they are mostly pursuing their field for an image. They want to have a loft in NYC, and live that life. And that is fine, but without the technical skill and job possibilities, they won't get there.

I am interested in video art and documentary film making. I want to have work in a gallery, and I want to be accepted to a big festival. But that is not my life ambition. Those are goals that I work on while working in my field.

Keep your hopes up high, your head down low, and your expectations in reality. The only thing separating you from success if how hard you're willing to work for it.

I like to think of it like this.

Lots of people will go to university because it is the 'done' thing. It doesn't mean they'll actually get anywhere or be any good. Lots of others go because they think that is what you need to do to become something they'd like to be, they lose sight of the fact that you can often do that thing (especially creative arts) without having a qualification simply by doing it.

Like I've a music degree. It doesn't make me a good musician or even a musician, it makes me somebody who has a music degree. Plenty of musicians don't have degrees and plenty of good musicians don't have degrees. On my course were tons of people who I'd not describe as good musicians, some even musicians, they were just doing a music degree. At the end of it, you can't just start applying for jobs as 'musician' you've got to have some idea of how your degree is going to work for you and enable things which were possible without the degree.

Some people just want to teach. They've no interest in even being a musician.

>>17953695
graphic designers are sought after