How do you go "friendship first" with a guy? How do

you dont, you absolute moron. your friends are your friends, the person you want to sleep with is not your friend, they are your (potential) lover. lovers are not friends, there is an inherent exclusivity.

>>17848827
But how am I supposed to feel comfortable with someone I'm not comfortable with?

Yea don't be friends. Just be up front
>I'm romantically interested in you, but I want to postpone a sexual relationship until we know each other really well.

My dick would be diamonds if a girl said this to me. But if a girl said that and we were still together with no sex after 4 - 6 months I'd assume she was using me as her beta bux and was fucking a chad.

With relationships you gotta tell people what you want

Be really, really clear. Many girls who try to be friends with guys actually give off girlfriendly vibes. You want to avoid;

>asking him for opinions on your clothes or otherwise drawing attention to your looks/fishing for compliments
>giving gifts, texting good night/morning, nicknames like baby, private goodbye rituals
>"date" like events like going to see a movie together, going out for dinner together, going dancing together, letting him pay for you at any time without reciprocation
>having intimate heart to hearts about love etc

You have to be stricter than you would be with a girl. Realize that what would be a normal amount of platonic touching/complimenting/affection for a girl, would be exceptional and poignant to a guy who is used to more distant friendships.

You can do the stuff I mentioned above but as a general exception and AFTER it has long become clear that you will never fuck or date. If you've been solid platonic friends for a year without any weird signs, it isn't odd to go out for dinner together. Do it within a few months and you are giving mixed messages.

Hope that this is somewhat helpful.

>>17848837
Realized from the other comments that I might misunderstood and you just want to be friends before dating.

That's not something you can dictate all by yourself. If it happens that way, great. If not naturally, you can tell the guy you want to spend a long time getting to know each other but that's about it. Guys get the advice all the time to bail if there's no clear romantic prospect after x amount of time and for good reasons. You cannot consciously keep someone in the dark about whether or not you will ever be interested in dating them. Or well, you can, but a self respecting man would not put up with it if he's seriously interested in being with you.

>>17848833
you go on dates and let it grow

I just got done dealing with someone like you, this chick is 25 but had the relationship mentality of a 12 year old. Long story short, she wanted to take it slow which meant like 3-4 months of steady dating before moving into something serious, we were making out and dry humping and shit, but she wanted to be "closer friends" before moving into a relationship.

Fuck that, I have tons of friends who I can hang out with. My lover is supposed to be something different. You feel me?

>>17848836
But how do I know if I'm romantically interested if I can't get to know him first?

>>17848837
I don't do that sort of things to anybody, except going out with friends and having intimate conversations. I really love those and can't help but end up in arguments about whether an individual opinion matters and whether one's beliefs influence their actions enough that they could be regarded as inherently valuable.

The problem isn't that I'm trying to be stricrtly friends with a guy trying to be my boyfriend, the problem is trying to get used to and comfortable with a guy before starting to date him.

>>17848843
So there is nothing I can do to make the anxiety ease, I'll just have to buy the whole nightmare in a bag and blindlt hope that this one is nice?

>>17848863

You become romantically interested by seeing this person. If you create artificial walls and circumstances that withhold your feelings for each other, its going to end up with one of you hurt because you'll end up just being "friends". Romantic feelings are meant to grow naturally, if you put constraints like "I want to see you as a friend before X", I guarantee he will lose interest because no sane person wants to hold back their feelings so that the other person can friendzone them.

>>17848863
>I really love those and can't help but end up in arguments
That's fine, I was more talking about the token "what are your dreams for the future" "what do you think about love" "what have you learned from life" etc that are pretty much a given component of falling in love.

>I'll just have to buy the whole nightmare in a bag and blindlt hope that this one is nice?
There's a middle road between being platonic friends and getting together right away. Dating is for establishing whether or not you feel comfortable with someone and you can make it clear that you plan to date for a long time before potentially getting together.
Alternatively it is possible that it naturally works out with the friendship first thing, but that's a two person thing. You cannot single-handedly decide that you want this guy to first get friends with you so you can judge him and potentially decide you like him, while he remains single and interested in you yet happy to just be your friend and await your final judgment, and then be ready to date when you are. That's way too specific to enforce yourself, you'll just have to get lucky or unlucky with that specific strategy.

>>17848863
You hang out with them? Are you an autistic female? There is a long spectrum between strangers and people who have sex.

>>17848876
I get anxiety at the thought of someone I don't like and trust. That anxiety doesn't go away once it's there.

How do I stop fearing someone if the fear is already there and you know the pressure will only get worse over time?

>>17848886
Yes. I know you were only trying to insult me but yes I actually am.

>>17848906
*at the thought of HAVING SEX WITH someone I don't like and trust

I was interrupted in the middle of typing

>>17848906
This is dumbfounding. Here is the natural progression of romance that has worked since the dawn of time. You meet someone. You go on dates. You get closer after getting to know them by dating. You then move into a relationship with them, or if you're promiscuous, you sleep with them.

You need to think about your expectations and talk to him about it.

>>17848926
But if it's immediately sexual, I get scared. I can't like sex with someone if I'm scared. If I know he wants sex and is just biding his time, I never stop being scared.

Sex doesn't work if I'm scared.

>>17848934
How old are you and how old is the person in question

>>17848938
I'm 22 and there's nobody specific. The last one ruined everything by scaring me so now there's no prospect.

>>17848943
Then you need to just maintain stoicism when you're dating, and brush up on red flags. If a guy is trying to sleep with you on the second date, then you need to avoid him. The ones you want to keep will understand that real relationships take time.

>>17848946
The guy invited me over for wine after I got him to swear he wasn't just after sex and at 3 am he started asking if I was really really sure there would be no sex.

I don't know how to get a better one.

>>17848954
You need to get a better intuition. An offer to come drink wine at his place at night is almost definitely going to turn sexual. It doesn't matter what he says about it, a guy who sincerely isn't hoping for sex will understand that it comes across the wrong way. Yes you can go over and hope for the best but generally (especially if you also have issues with being assertive) it's best to meet up in daytime, in public, if you don't fully trust someone yet. Some girls have it in them to tell someone to back the fuck off as soon as he starts asking the wrong questions or trying to push touches on you, some girls don't or get burned too badly by the disappointment. If you know you don't want to get into the situation better be safe than sorry.

You'll just have to meet a lot of people and see which ones show by actions that they are not looking for sex quickly. This includes not asking sexual questions, not making recurring sexual jokes, not pushing your touch barrier (eg they will touch your shoulder or another neutral place, then try to move to touching your leg), and not putting you in the position of coming over at night to watch movies, drink wine smoke weed etc.

Basically you can't avoid meeting guys like this but you can rule them out as soon as they come with an invitation like the one you got.

>>17848934

All guys that are romantically interested in you want sex. Well, maybe it's closer to like 90-99% since there are some who are asexual and others who are gay men who just want a "beard" to help stay in the closet... but anyway it's simply a biological fact.

The difference between the good guys and the bad guys is that the bad guys will try to pressure you right off the bat because they either can't contain their own impulses or because they just want to use your body. The good guys also want to plow you because they find you attractive (because if they're not attracted to you then why are they even trying to date you?) but they want to wait until you're ready or there's an emotional bond - they can wait because sex is just one of the things that want to enjoy WITH you not THROUGH you.

I get that you have a natural tendency to want to set rules and create order in your approaches and thoughts but this isn't something where you can create an easy structure for. You will find that there are plenty of untustworthy "friendly" guys who profess that they just want to be buddies but secretly harbor machinations and fantasies of being more. Then when you HAVE gotten to know them and decide that a romantic approach isn't for you after all, then they flip their shit and either pull away their friendship or act like you led them on.

Let's be frank, as well - if you are looking for friends with the eventual goal of being in a relationship with them you actually ARE dating them based on intent even if not in accordance with what the social norm for "dating" is.

>>17848954
If you are after a mutual and enduring bond with a guy, you need to think ahead. You shouldn't go after the guys who already have stable professional lives/are on a straight-shot to professional success. You need to find a guy who has potential yet isn't motivated to reach that full potential. You need to become the source of motivation for a man who is disillusioned with the world. By struggling together and making difficult life decisions with tons of compromises together, you can forge an enduring bond like no other that, naturally, moves you well past friendship. Look for guys who are poorly groomed/have sunken eyes when you go out. These are your potential partners to support with all you have.

>>17848971
I don't have an intuition. Every time I'm left alone in a room with a guy the gut feeling is PANIC. I can't date someone if I can't be alone with him.

How do I date someone if I'm scared of him?

>>17848979
So no matter what I do, it's still a war of attrition? He can't just promise not to do it and I can't just trust that he will?

>>17849000
>I don't have an intuition.
Virtually no one has at first, it's something you learn to recognize through experience. Eg take this as a lesson and be wary next time a guy invites you over for late night wining.

>Every time I'm left alone in a room with a guy the gut feeling is PANIC.
This isn't normal. Are you in any sort of therapy? If so, is this already being addressed? Being anxious about a guy who obviously wants sex and being scared for your life when alone with an unknown guy are not remotely the same thing.

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>>17848993
>advising autistic sluts to choose losers
>because that's your best shot at ever getting pussy

>>17849053
I brought up my anxiety concerning sex with my shrink once and he just said it's probably a physical thing and refuses to look into it before I've been to a gynecologist.

>>17849062
This is bullshit, your shrink is shit. Are you happy with them otherwise? If not, strongly consider switching because this is a highly unprofessional and incompetent attitude. Even if there is a physical component that doesn't mean there's no emotional component and the fact that you bring it up should be enough for him to seriously consider it and see how far he can get.
Besides what you mention is hardly a matter of vaginismus or whatever.

>>17849000
you seem like you have an antisocial personality, so that you need a long time until you can trust someone completely. your shrink won't help you with that as long as you don't get depression or borderline as a result. You should try to work on that matter before it makes you sick. I don't want to say that you should trust every guy immediately, because I know that there are many assholes out there, but please try to be open and let them open up to you. Talking is everything and can reduce misunderstandings.

>>17848817
OP, it sounds like you are potentially wasting his time. If I see a girl on a dating site who says e.g. 'start as friends and maybe something more,' I assume they are just friendzoning people for weeks or months on end and that even if I end up seeing them the chance of ending up in a relationship is tiny. Don't play games with me or I will ignore you and focus on women who are actually serious. You don't and shouldn't need to rush into getting physical, and desu it often takes me 2-3 dates to even kiss a girl sometimes, but don't try to collect a dozen orbiters before choosing the hottest to actually get to date you. I'm not going to bother with that; time is too limited and it's likely to just end up hurting me anyway.

>>17849069
I'm with him because I was legally required to be under psychiatric supervision for something I will not discuss here.

I can tell him I don't know if I need him anymore but I don't think I have the grounds to demand another one.

Maybe the subject could be brought to light if I had a partner who repeatedly rapes me and needed couples therapy or something.

>>17849075
Also this. Get to trust the guy by going on dates. If pressured, say you prefer to take things slow. That's all you need to do. Don't do this selective friendzoning bullshit; it repels guys who actually want a relationship. Plus, they're seeing other women, too-- if they aren't getting anywhere with you emotionally and think you're just leading them on, they'll go elsewhere.

>>17849081
I can't imagine dating a bunch of people at the same time. I'd be too scared of all of them finding each other and deciding to gang up, rape and murder me.

>>17849056
Nah, I've got the 3.14 Korean qt of my life who lifted me out of NEET life, living with my parents, and socks with sandals. We have a stronger bond then I thought people were capable of when I was disillusioned with the world. It's like I care about her happiness more than my own, like she could lose limbs or get facially burned badly and I would still treat her the same and not look at other women. I wish OP the best of luck with the top 10-20% of men. May she transcend friendship/side-girl status.

>>17849091
Holy shit you are paranoid.
I've never known a single other guy who a girl I went on a date with had recently seen. I don't even know how I would find that out.
Also, I've never heard of that happening to anyone, period. If you aren't from the ghetto and don't date blacks or Hispanics (based on crime statistics), I think the chance is very low.

>>17849083
I would say it would suffice to tell him that your anxiety causes you physical pain like headache or that you feel sick and have p, but then he will most-likely prescribe you an antidepressant or something against anxiety. The Problem for you is that you limit your possible lovers to 1-10% of them with your personality, because many men decide quick and will to avoid the friendzone unless they're virgins or have similar problems.

>>17849091
Also I only mean for 1st or 2nd dates. And only like 2-4 max. Otherwise it gets too hard to coordinate and too easy for things to slip away.

>>17849107
Either a guy is OK with no sex, or he'll have to be OK with me crying during sex. That, or he can find someone else to have a relationship with.

>>17849116
I didn't say that you should actually Force yourself, just meant to explain you that you will have a very long search to find someone you can become happy with. Don't force yourself.

>>17848926
Dating wasn't even common until after the early 1900's. That's a decent picture of male/female relations today, but pls no misinformation.

You:
>I just want to be friends. Maybe after months of dating we might be come something more.
Guy:
>Sure, we'll be friends. So you don't mind that I start dating other girls now, right?

You can't have your cake and eat it too. You're basically asking for a guy to not be anything more than a friend, and yet expect him to wait for months for the small possibility you will be something more than friends.

That's an incredibly selfish and entitled way of thinking. Guys will not put up with that. Either be romantic from the start or don't be at all.

>>17849166
I don't mean romantic, I mean sexual.

If I can't have space to let it become good sex, it will just be bad sex forever, and he can't have his cake and eat it, too.

He can wait until I'm ready for it to be good, or he can rape me at his convenience whenever, but I won't pretend to like it.

>>17849166
kek, I loved this post.

>OP says she wants to transition friendship to monogamous relationship
>As thread goes on, her real desires come out
>OP wants more orbiters than a uranium atom
>She then wants to selectively date then when she wants, on her terms

I don't even know the endgame here.

>>17849174
Are you a virgin? Or do you have some deep down sexual trauma, perhaps from being molested as a child, that makes you afraid of sex?

>>17849181
You imagined it and other manchildren holding the same delusion echoed it, which you hold as proof.

It's like a religion, except without any kind of pretense towards peace or kindness.

>>17849182
Neither.

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>>17849187
>It's like a religion, except without any kind of pretense towards peace or kindness.

>>17849187
>manchildren

Sorry, but the one here acting like a child is you. You just want male beta orbiters who give you attention, and you give them nothing in return. And then maybe you pick your Prince Charming from them. The world doesn't work that way.

All the males with an ounce of self-respect will abandon you fast. The only ones who will remain are the lowest quality, bottom of the barrel beta orbiters.

Why is being freinds with your lover being considered wierd here?
I always wanted a girlfreind who would share my hobbies, do stuff we like with me, and just act like freind with a bit of affection mixed in. Too bad I never had a gf.

>>17849197
I'd REALLY like you to explain how you got into this conclusion. Can you tell me which posts were the ones that took you that way? I believe I said the opposite several times.

There's still a population, be it small, of people that don't have sex before marriage.

It's not common, but it's not unheard of or even something considered "that weird."


You might not be doing it for values, as you're not a virgin, but the same kind of concept applies. Those people are "a couple" before they wed, before they have sex. Dating is a normal thing, call it a date and just say "not yet" to the sex.

>>17849224
But I don't want to get married.

I just don't want a guy to fuck me before I'm ready.

>>17849218
You want to date men as friends. A date is generally understood as something where there is mutual interest from both sides. How long do you see yourself dating a guy before you'd feel ready to have sex? If you consider sex off the table for months, then you're just leading a guy on. That's not nice. Be honest and upfront tell someone on the first date you don't want to have sex until marriage.

>>17849236
>before I'm ready

Which is what? 3 dates? A month? A year? Marriage?

>>17849181
>>17849236

Is OP's endgame to, one-by-one, date the top orbiters (on her terms), have sex with them (on her terms), then transition them back to friendships (on her terms)? It's some kind of dynamic equilibrium where the orbiters transition in and out of friendship to/from relationship status on her whims. Sorry OP, this isn't how the real world works unless you are massively desirable, like, maybe Emma Watson could have pulled it off.

>>17849244
What she wants when she wants it.

>>17849241
I don't want to get married.

>>17849244
I don't know. It hasn't happened yet. They always start pressuring me before it happens.

>>17849249
A guy can either wait or rape me but he won't get to pretend what he did didn't hurt me.

>>17849236
Doesn't have to be marriage. Does have to be titled as a "one on one relationship", "dating", "boyfriend/girlfriend", if you want someone to be viewing you in an exclusive sense.

>>17849253
>They always start pressuring me before it happens.
Then you need to consider that the problem is you, not them. What's the longest you have dated a guy for, before he got tired of you not wanting to have sex?

>>17849285
Do you mean before making it sexual or before he left me?

Excluding long-distance relationships, I've always put out within the first month or week, and I've dreaded and hated the sex in every relationship I've been in.

>>17849256
I think I understand what you want. You want a sex partner who never pressures you for sex, one who never puts you in a position where you don't want to have sex, one who never has a deadline to have sex, one who never has any desire to "rape" you before your decision that you are ready. I have the perfect idea for you. Buy a dildo.

>>17849297
I have one. I thought it would help in becoming more sexual.

The mountain of batteries I bought in 2014 is expiring next summer.

>>17849295
>I've dreaded and hated the sex in every relationship I've been in

I think THAT is the main problem, not anything else mentioned here. There are sex therapists out there who could probably help you.

>>17849295
>>17849311
What if you find a guy who is paralyzed from at least the waist-down? Since he already feels nothing but a connective feeling during sex, he shouldn't be in a rush to "rape" you. I would start with some Google searches on how to find paralyzed singles in your area. Best of luck!

This is bait.

>>17848827
>Lovers are not friends
t. virgin

>>17848833

every guy will tell you if you are friends with a girl she wont fall for you.

I don't even know what this thread is asking for but I'll lay out how I do things.

If I think a girl is interesting/cute enough I'll tell her that I'm interested right off the bat, I won't try and pretend to be her friend hoping that she'll grow to like me. Obviously this doesn't mean intimacy immediately but it establishes my intent and why I'm there. I did hang out with a girl I said this to but she said she doesn't think I'm interested in her that much and that I'm not really her type(I think she's bluffing anyway but I'm past the point of playing games with girls). It was a bit hurtful but I took it for what it was, certainly much better than if I'd pretended to just be her friend.

I do believe that men and women can be friends but people just have to be honest about what they want in the beginning.

If he pressures you for sex, he isn't your friend, and he certainly doesn't love you.

>>17849484
thank you feminist after school special

I would like that a lot.
I really dislike that most relationships start with blatant romantic/sexual desire.
Ideally i would like to be best friends for several years before starting relationship, but the realisticallity of that idea decreases as you age. i would more likely settle for just a few years, but i'm probably just going to die a virgin so it doesn't really matter.
it's still vastly preferable to kissing a girl only a few months after you met her.

>>17849427
They aren't you stupid fuck. Otherwise all humans would just date their friends. If you're treating your lover like one of your friends, it wont last long.

Virgin mentality is thinking that the person you want to be romantically involved with should start as friends. News flash, it NEVER works out that way.

>>17849804

Not him but you sound awfully bitter. People can start off as friends then it evolves to something more. If you're not friends with the person you love why even bother being with them? This is how relationships fail in the first place.

>>17849604
and this is straight up delusional, not to mention selfish as fuck. You want to make someone stay in the friendzone, while they grow feelings, for years before possibly telling them that you dont want to date them. You're going to be a sad, old cat lady when you wake up one day and realize you're 40 years old and alone because you're too selfish to tear some walls down and live a little

>>17849295
>>17849307
Ok, so you're probably either asexual or demisexual, but not necessarily aromantic. That's fine. Find a guy with a really low sex drive.

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>>17848817
I can tell you right now that your biggest mistake was bringing this to 4chan. You're a girl and the people here will make you feel like everything you do is wrong and if anything bad happens that it's your fault. My suggestion would be to talk to actual people about how to deal with actual people.
If you're uncomfortable with someone and you don't work with them, go to school with them or spend any enforced time with them, just drop them altogether. Focus on making friends with people regardless of gender, that will certainly help. Good luck.

>>17849816
I'm a guy though.