Should I convert to something I don't fully believe in /adv/

>>17847271
Oldfag former Mormon here. Raised Mormon. Left the church when I was 18. Came back a little I was 35.

It is comfy, I won't lie. But don't throw away your objectivity as you get further into it. There are people you'll encounter that I hope will make you feel genuinely cared for. But there is some crack pot shit in the faith. So explore it from the perspective of learning more about your own views as they relate to spirituality.

>>17847271
>mormons
>free from degeneracy
you are over-romanticizing a religion you don't even believe in.
>life will not change if you become mormon
>society will not change if you become mormon
>jumping ship for a religion who's kool-aid you haven't drank is a rookie mistake

>>17847271
Mormons have some pretty good core values
7 Habits of Highly successful People which is like one of the most sold self help books of all time is just a rewriting of Mormon shit

I would say going into their society is a bit extreme but learning from them and taking it into the rest of the world is dope

>>17847308
For what it is worth, the chances of you Landing conservative cute traditional gender role wife is relatively High. Extra points for the babby crazy ones. Closet repressed sexual does make them very willing to please

>>17847271
"Muh degeneracy muh degeneracy"

When will this meme die?

>>17847660
When it stops destroying societies. So never, probably.

>>17847660
Usually once the poster leaves puberty. Although it's a shame that people fall for the meme in times when information is so easy available. At least people back in the day had tons of excuses to remain ignorant.

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>>17847304
>>17847660

You can see this change in yourself as you live by their social moral matrix. Things begun to seem pure and sanctified, such as sex (only in marriage, avoiding pornography, avoiding vulgarity), what you eat and treat your body (the body is a temple, being very conscious of what you eat, make sure you exercise often), being good to people, and creating a close-knit sense of community (with all the singing, church activities, all believing in the same crazy crap and giving each other support, it all creates this strong sense of community and friendship). I am still very adamant about the beliefs, I can't see myself not being involved in any other community.

>>17847308
This. I just want to better myself.

>>17847356
Also this.

>>17847271
liberals are centrists m8. they are denounced by the left as much as by the right.

that said, you can't just decide "oh today I will convert to mormonism" - the people that believe in it so strongly were raised in it, or otherwise came to their understanding of it over time. why not try it? read more, etc.

>>17848646
noted.

Traditional Catholicism is what you're looking for.

>>17847779
Name a single society or nation destroyed alone by degeneracy.

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>>17849283

>>17849312
Wrong.

Many factors led to the Western Roman Empire's demise.

>>17849332
>implying degeneracy didn't play a significant role in the Roman Empire.

Why does the well-being of society matter?
And how are you measuring it?

How can you say anything matters apart from your own self interests and pleasure?

I'm not saying they aren't great, but why are they?

>>17849354
It didn't.

"The Roman Empire lost the strengths that had allowed it to exercise effective control; modern historians mention factors including the effectiveness and numbers of the army, the health and numbers of the Roman population, the strength of the economy, the competence of the Emperor, the religious changes of the period, and the efficiency of the civil administration. Increasing pressure from "barbarians" outside Roman culture also contributed greatly to the collapse."

I bet you are one of those fags that believe they all went crazy from leaded wine too.

>>17849365
that's not an argument, nor is it a fact.

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>>17847271
You are part of a very important movement right now, though it is beneath the surface so it doesn't have any official name. We've come to a point where many of us are trying to choose between family or [a less judgmental] society. Many who chose friends/society are currently fighting a feeling of inherent danger that rejecting your parents will cause, and many who have chosen to remain loyal to their parents are fighting a feeling of not being able to live the life of freedom and openness that comes from the left. How do we solve this conundrum?

>>17849379
You are the one making the claim that degeneracy played a significant role in the Western Roman Empire's downfall.

It's up to you to prove it.

>>17849365

Those factors are all related to degeneracy, except for migratory pressures. Degeneracy and immigration destroy every society they touch.

> modern historians mention factors including the effectiveness and numbers of the army,
Largely due to various types of anti-patriotic degeneracy. The Legions were, by the 5th century, mostly multicultural and composed of barbarian hirelings without loyalty. The different generals kept leading stupid revolts, which eg. drained Britannia of almost all of its soldiers within 100 years.

>the health and numbers of the Roman population,

Degeneracy and shitty farming

>the strength of the economy,

Market degeneracy, lazy fags, tertiary economy, agricultural failure

>the competence of the Emperor,

Degeneracy

>the religious changes of the period,

Degeneracy and kike-on-stick fags

>and the efficiency of the civil administration.

Literally the definition of societal degeneracy; MUH GIANT ADMINISTRATION BECAUSE INHERITANCE LOL~~

>>17849354
Roman empire was destroyed by unending internal political strife (as did Byzantine one desu). "Muh degenaracy" had very little to do with it.

>>17849283
Sweden

>>17849434
Sweden is fine. Stop drinking /pol/ koolaid.

t. neighbour

>>17849423
Yea ok your tried your best I guess. By your logic every failure is tied to degeneracy.

/pol/ ladies and gentleman.

>>17849429
so corruption and political incompetence had nothing to due with Rome self destruction ?

>>17849465
Of course those had an affect, but the claim was it was all due or significantly caused by degeneracy.

But like all talking points they fall short of the truth which is it was complicated and had many factors.

>>17849493
Can you define what degeneracy means in this context please?

>>17849465
Sure it did. And those things existed at the birth of Roman republic and will continue to exist long after we are dead. At critical moments, political incompetence and corruption coincided with various internal and external events and in turn knocked Rome down a peg.

The problem with you "degeneracy" faggots is you assume that these processes are continuous and it is somehow possible to return to "the right way™". What is it exactly no one quite knows, especially when degeneracy for you essentially means "things I don't like".

>>17849312
The Western Roman empire was FAR less degenerate when it fell compared to how it had been at its height thanks to all the christfags banning fucking everything. It didn't save them.

Try again.

>>17849434
They seem to be doing quite well for themselves, being #14 on the HDI rankings and all.

>>17849453

>Nothing close to a counter-argument

kek

There are societal failures which aren't tied to the dissolution of traditional cultural structures, yes. These include outright conquest by a stronger military power, famine induced by environmental changes, and anything along those lines. Those are not the problems that sank Rome, though.

The only problem that did sink Rome but wasn't directly tied to internal societal collapse pre-dating the issue at hand was that the empire relied on agricultural produce from its expansions, and any time these were interrupted (by weather or pirates or war) the Roman peninsula was temporarily fucked. A related problem is that the Empire was too big for communication across its width and breadth.

>>17849517

Degeneracy doesn't just mean "lol fags" despite what /pol/ will tell you. The late Roman Empire was degenerate when it fell.

>multicultural
>civic nationalism replaced with shitty regionalism
>long-standing sociocultural order demolished
>economically all wealth concentrated among super-oligarchy like in US
>no driving national animus unlike in days of Republic or during (most of) the Good Emperors

Most of Rome's problems could have been prevented but weren't because it was a degenerate system on the verge of total systems collapse. The Pax Americana is the same way, but probably has a century left before it gets BTFO.

>>17849585
>degeneracy means whatever I want it to mean to support my argument that degeneracy caused x
That's pretty damn degenerate of you.

>>17849617

No you fucking nigger, degeneracy means the state of being degenerate. Degenerate means "having lost the physical, mental, or moral qualities considered normal and desirable; showing evidence of decline" or lacking structures which are usually present (thanks Google). Societal means whatever the fuck the definition of societal is. Combine the two, ?????????, PROFIT

Or tl;dr when traditional social structures decline the society associated with them goes kaput

>>17849283
The whole of south america
rome
sweden today
france
egypt
basically the WHOLE entirety of middle east and all its civilizations since the dawn of man

Dunno man, you should probably STUDY SOME FUCKING GOD DAMN HISTORY so it doesn't repeat itself over and over and over.

>>17849684
You're so full of shit. Go ahead, explain to me how each one of these countries (some of whom you listed are still alive and well) have fallen due to degeneracy.

All you have is your talking points. Nothing to back it up you fool.

>>17849684
I guarantee Sweden is better than where you live.

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this entire Thread.

>>17850787
you're seeing what happens when a /pol/tard exits his echochamber

>>17850990

What you see here is two liberals arguing with each other over ancient history on a masturbation image board

>>17851022
hardly

If you want to live dishonestly, go ahead. You might gain a more "comfy" life but you'll lose self respect in the long run. It is possible to live as a non-religious person with conservative, traditional values that avoid degenerate behaviour. Look at societies like Japan, they are very much not religious but they avoid the leftist culture that you're concerned about.

MORALITY IS TEMPORARY. WISDOM IS PERMANENT.