i feel like i fucked over my fiances life. he's younger

>>17835843
Well now, you destroy him

>>17835847
i feel responsible for him though...

>>17835843
What's the economic situation?
Who earns more and does he work or is he still in school?
Who will earn more in 5 years?
What ages are you?
Have you talked to him about any of this yet?
How likely do you think he is to make these positive changes within the next year or two at most?
How long have you been engaged?
How long were you together before then and where/how did you meet?
You have to provide info or we won't know how to provide useful input.

>>17835850
You are
And the longer you wait the more harm you're doing to both of you

>>17835850
He isn't your child. It's his responsibility to figure out his life and where to go from being dumped, not yours. Focus on your life first, and then someone else's if you have that luxury.

>>17835850
Would you like to be responsible for a man sized child in his 40s? Bc that's the other opton you're describing do you destroy him or do you destroy you? The choice is yours

>>17835850
you were a partner not his mother. He'll get over you if your ego can take that reality.

>>17835862
Um. If he's like 22, there's also the possibility that he does end up being mature enough within the next year or so. The prefrontal cortex in males takes until around age 25-26 to fully develop. I know I personally went through considerable changes in mindset in those years. It's also worth wondering if OP has ever actually raised any of these issues, or if she is doing that horrible thing women often do-- 'read my mind regarding my concerns, or I will construct a theory of how you are terrible and we are incompatible so that I can leave after the usual 2-3 year attraction period and find the next guy who seems shiny'. Communicate.

>>17835870
What kind of moron engages someone 22 yrs old?

>>17835858
he earns more and will continue to earn better, unless i go back to school for a second degree.
he's not in school anymore but might go back.
he has, seen from outside, his ahit together. but he is emotionally immature to a degree i can't cope with. his communication skills are horrible. he is extremely dependant and needy. needs constant validation and attention.

he's 23, i'm 27.

kind of. but wrapped in augar because he can't deal woth any sign of me being less than thrilled about the current state of our relationship.

i think him becoming more mature is more a thing of about 10-15 years...

we've been engaged half a year now. in a relationship for half a year before and knew each other (not very close) since 2 years. we met trough mutual friends.

>>17835870
yeah, in hindsight i could slap my stupid bitch face. what the hell was i thinking? i was basically a kid when i was that age. holly shit, i really fucked this up.

>>17835883
>he earns more and will continue to earn better, unless i go back to school for a second degree.
so you can't complain about economic maturity, at least.
>he has, seen from outside, his ahit together. but he is emotionally immature to a degree i can't cope with. his communication skills are horrible. he is extremely dependant and needy. needs constant validation and attention.
ok, this is very typical for women. they want constant emotional support. constant attention on demand. they absolutely _hate_ it when their partner wants anything like that, because in their eyes it makes their partner look weak. men are not allowed to have feelings, they must keep them under wraps until they eventually kill themselves if depressed, or channel them into aggression. not to complain. just be aware that this is how you are coming across at the moment here. it sounds like you don't respect him or care about his feelings or appreciate his affection. which is fine, but you shouldn't have gotten engaged or stayed in the relationship if so.
>he's 23, i'm 27.
big gap and in the wrong direction. but you're getting close to the wall, too. don't EVER assume you will be able to do well post-30. it's the most common mistake women make, bar none. pride comes before a fall. so if this guy can't fit in with what you want, you'd better hurry afterward-- without just jumping into another ill-conceived abrupt engagement.
>kind of. but wrapped in augar because he can't deal woth any sign of me being less than thrilled about the current state of our relationship.
this is bad. sounds like he can tell you're losing interest and he doesn't know how to fix it. which is a downward spiral. needs security, isn't getting it.

>>17835883
>>17835911
>i think him becoming more mature is more a thing of about 10-15 years...
depends on how so. personally, getting into the 'keep face at all costs; be masculine; be stoic' mentality without feeling a constant burden from it was something that came to me around 25-26. i still let my guard down on the Internet because it's anonymous and it's a good way to blow off stress, but I think this is the crux of the issue you're having. you want someone you can look up to, who makes you feel strong and protected and cares for you, but who you don't have to validate because he can stand on his own. you're not getting that, because that's a ridiculous dehumanizing ideal that denies men emotional support from the closest person in their lives, but he seems to need too much of it. so tl;dr you think he's acting like a pussy, and there can be only one pussy in a relationship. i won't entirely disagree.
>we've been engaged half a year now. in a relationship for half a year before and knew each other (not very close) since 2 years. we met trough mutual friends.
here's your problem. getting engaged after 6 months to someone much younger is absurd. and now you have even less time. oh boy.

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>>17835843

>dumping him would destroy him.

Dumping him would not destroy him anywhere near as much as stringing him along for years and letting him think you're still in love with him and want to marry him just because you don't have the balls to be honest with him.

Be a fucking human being and let this kid go before you make him spend his whole life believing a lie.

>>17835890
>>17835927
so here's a thought, anyway:
>>17835870
>that horrible thing women often do-- 'read my mind regarding my concerns, or I will construct a theory of how you are terrible and we are incompatible so that I can leave after the usual 2-3 year attraction period and find the next guy who seems shiny'. Communicate.
in this case desu idk how fixable this is. it sounds like he might actually need a shock like this to become more stoic and less emotive. which would probably help his prospects in the future. you can say 'I need more space,' but that's so often a codeword for 'I need to fuck other guys while you provide me with security and maybe money' that it would likely damage your relationship anyway. you can just straight up ask him who wears the pants in this relationship and tell him he needs to man up and quit seeking so much validation. but I suspect by then you might not even really respect him, because again, women only respect men they perceive as strong and able to protect them. it's a primal thing. they'll support their man and help him plan things, but they don't want to help him get over any real and genuine issues unless he hides it well and makes them pry so they can feel like they're healing the wounded warrior or whatever.

so tl;dr tell the guy to man up as a final warning. if you will still be attracted to him if he actually does. if you've already lost that and wouldn't recover it even if he did, then just drop him rather than lead him on.

either way this guy needs a wakeup call. he's not wrong, exactly, but he needs to honor the code better. the magazine articles saying men need to open up are all full of shit; this cost me a girl I cared about once as well. many years ago. as a man you keep your shit to yourself. (except online and when channeling aggression into productivity).

>>17835911
i have no problem with him wantong security and being able to let his guard down at all. i am, as the nature of our age gap imples, willing to provide more stability for hin than in your average "male is older, female is younger" relationship. but this is really getting out of hand. he can't do anything without me anymore. not even a quick run to the store "cause he will miss me too much".wtf. i feel suffocated. and not in a "i need some space" way. more in a, he is demanding more and more of me over time and now it reached a point i can't deal with anymore. i told him that. but naturally he felt rejected, which made him grasp me even firmer. i think he has such bad selfesteem that he is constantly frigtened to lose me and his response to that is to try to "lock me in", which obviously drives me away.

yeah, i am aware of the wall. but i honestly don't give a fuck. i could also stay alone for the rest of my life and be fine.

i told him that he is overdoing it. i just said what i would need more of instead of pointing out the negatives (that's what i meant by sugarcoating it). he still takes it as rejection, which makes the situation a lot worse.

>>17835946

>Dumping him would not destroy him anywhere near as much
Hmm idk. Could lead to suicide depending on the situation. It's actually the most common cause, for men. If he's worthwhile he'll get over it though. Nature isn't kind; one must persevere anyway.

>anywhere near as much as stringing him along for years and letting him think you're still in love with him and want to marry him just because you don't have the balls to be honest with him
Also horrible. One way or the other you need to tell him this is an issue for you. He's at an age where he's likely about to go through the transition to needing less support in general, but idk, some people probably never make it properly. Or regress later in life if their career fails or something similar destroys their confidence again. We're really talking about confidence and stability here I think.

What appealed to you about this guy? Why did you fall for him? Is any of it still there, and would it be what you wanted if he become more self-reliant, or do you think you were mistaken or have already lost respect/interest for him?

Young women often like cute relationships, but as they get close to their mid-20s and beyond they usually transition to wanting more stable masculine figures instead. Everyone is different though.

>>17835927
i don't want or need him to do that whole "stoic male" thing. but there is a line that he crossed that i can't deal with. i feel like he needs so much support and validation 24/7 that there is NO room left for me to ask for support anymore. it is very onesided. i'm always there to catch gim up but he has no way to catch me up because he is so wrapped up in being sorry for himself.

yeah, i know that's my problem. but i got myself into this and now i will have to deal with it.

my main question is, i know everyone is somehow mad. i won't deny my own madness at all. and i am aware that it won't do any good to "dump him and fond someone else". they would just be mad in a different way. so i am actually rather interested in how to deal with this. i know it would be possible, but i don't know where to get the patience for this

>>17835956
>he can't do anything without me anymore. not even a quick run to the store "cause he will miss me too much".wtf.
This is literally the most retarded thing I have read on 4chan so far today, OP, I'm sorry. Absolutely unacceptable. You are well within your rights to demand that this behavior cease and once and that he get ahold of himself.

>>17836004
>*"cease at once"
>>17835956
>but naturally he felt rejected, which made him grasp me even firmer. i think he has such bad selfesteem that he is constantly frigtened to lose me and his response to that is to try to "lock me in", which obviously drives me away.
holy shit this is absurd
>i told him that he is overdoing it. i just said what i would need more of instead of pointing out the negatives (that's what i meant by sugarcoating it). he still takes it as rejection, which makes the situation a lot worse.
he's had fair warning. you've fired multiple warning shots and he doesn't seem to understand that if he just quit being insecure the source of his insecurity would go away in the first place. you've been a hell of a lot nicer to him than my ex was to me back then -- i didn't get a warning at all, but granted she was a neurotic shut-in half the time and couldn't step up and communicate sometimes. you sound reasonable.
>>17836001
>i don't want or need him to do that whole "stoic male" thing. but there is a line that he crossed that i can't deal with. i feel like he needs so much support and validation 24/7 that there is NO room left for me to ask for support anymore. it is very onesided. i'm always there to catch gim up but he has no way to catch me up because he is so wrapped up in being sorry for himself.
and it sounds like you've already told him that and he hasn't done anything about it. which is an objective and verifiable failure on his side, easily corrected by anyone with common sense.
>i know it would be possible, but i don't know where to get the patience for this
if you still want to stick around, which i am questioning now whether you should given all you've done already within a short amount of time (months), I guess you could suggest therapy. but honestly i misread you initially. if you've given so many explicit verbal warnings then idk what the hell he thinks he is doing.

>>17835996
i don't think he would kill himself. but he would probably not be able to trust a girl again...

well, he IS mature in some areas. that was what appealed to me in the first place. we have a lot in common (come from the same area, similar upbringing, same values and goals, very similar lifestyle, compatible likes and dislikes and so on). i am also still physically attracted to him. i guess my main problem is that he is putting me on a pedestal. he acts as if i am perfect, when i am all but that. this is very exhausting since it puts me in a position of letting him down if i don't live up to that expectation.

>>17836004
i am aware. i'm sadly not making this up...
today he called me and i was in the shower and couldn't pick up. i had 11 missed calls when i got out.

>>17835996
>One way or the other you need to tell him this is an issue for you.
already done:
>>17835956
>>17836001

OP should probably be thinking in terms of ultimatums or graceful exits right now. C'est la vie.

Insecurity in relationships can be and often does need to be managed, but it sounds like OP managed it pretty aggressively and it still didn't go away.

If he would just realize that he's getting into a negative self-fulfilling prophecy right now ('I worry that she might leave me, which causes me to constantly seek validation to the extent that it is burdensome and unattractive and blocks her from meeting her own needs, which is the only thing actually causing her to consider leaving me in the first place') he could maybe get out of this death-spiral, but OP has already told him clearly to do that. It's unclear to me whether anything more can be done.

>>17836022
i'm usually not that bad at grasping where someone's issues are burried. but with him, i'm at a loss. he had a picture perfect childhood, his parents are genuinely wonderfull people. he had all the stability and support one could wish for. but something must have gone horribly wrong. i don't know if it is a case of "he has never had to go trough anything remotesly hard yet so the slightest inconvenience is the worst thing he ever had to face".
his family has an odd way of being almost to perfect and sterile. somehow it seems ingenuine and artificial. as in, they do everything as "one is supposed to" and they almost entirely communicate trough set and flowery phrases. this is extremely weird to me, since my family has a blunt but genuine way of talking to each other. maybe that is one of the things that are causing problems...

>>17836048
>today he called me and i was in the shower and couldn't pick up. i had 11 missed calls when i got out.
... I don't even know what to say at this point.

How does this guy survive in a reasonably high-paying work environment? They're full of veiled threats and ambiguous politics and they tend to detect and remove people who show insecurity very quickly. It's possible that he may not be doing well at work atm either. But it sounds like the primary source of his insecurity is this ridiculous codependent attachment to you and severe abandonment issues.

>>17836067
>'I worry that she might leave me, which causes me to constantly seek validation to the extent that it is burdensome and unattractive and blocks her from meeting her own needs, which is the only thing actually causing her to consider leaving me in the first place'

i'm thinking of telling him exactly this. but i know that he is also not capable of changing his behaviour on the spot. nobody is. but maybe this will show him how serious the issue is to me?

>>17836091
he only has a high-paying job because it is one that only very few people do. there is almost no competition.
he also works wirh machines mostly. they don't care about someone being insecure, so he's good.

i just wonder where the fuck this insecurity comes from. as far as i can tell, his parents dodged the common pitfalls that lead to it.

he doea have severe abandonment issues but again, i see no reason for them. he never got abandoned. well, his ex did, but that was when he was 17 and they only dated for about 4 month. maybe his life was ao sheltered that this one incident was able to tilt his mental health that much? as in, this was thw first time he came in touch with how cruel the world can be and it compeltely destroyed him since he grew up in a fairy tale?

>>17836086
>i don't know if it is a case of "he has never had to go trough anything remotesly hard yet so the slightest inconvenience is the worst thing he ever had to face".
Totally plausible. My immediate post-college years were some of the most difficult of my life. Because suddenly no one was obligated to care about me at all, everything was ambiguous, there were no objective grades or even project deadlines, there were no well-defined institutional structures to fall back on again, I was dealing with a lot of office politics, I was in a new city, I had no savings yet and high living costs, and I was trying to develop a social network in the city with few alumni connections around. But even so, I never did anything remotely on the level of what you described with any of the women I had relationships with during that period.

>and they almost entirely communicate trough set and flowery phrases. this is extremely weird to me, since my family has a blunt but genuine way of talking to each other. maybe that is one of the things that are causing problems...
Sounds like he's used to having a lot of emotional support. ... which can be ok, if that means e.g. talking about how your day went at the end of the day and how to approach problems and things that are on your mind. It's not ok if it means 11 missed calls and not being able to go to a grocery store or whatever other bizarre horror stories you haven't told us. That's completely pathological codependence and I don't understand why he hasn't fixed his shit after being directly told to several times.

>>17836101

>i'm thinking of telling him exactly this.
That's the only thing I think could make sense right now, desu, short of leaving. You've already warned him multiple times. I think this type of statement/ultimatum is probably his last shot at fixing his behavior and becoming a decent potential husband.

>but i know that he is also not capable of changing his behaviour on the spot. nobody is.
He never needed to change on the spot-- you already warned him multiple times over a period of a month or more. He's proposing spending the rest of your lives together. He should be able to figure this out.

>but maybe this will show him how serious the issue is to me?
I don't know how else you could emphasize it more. I don't see anything else that could be done either, like I said short of a psychiatric referral.

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Hey you spastics. Tomorrow morning I need to submit my end of year quote at my school. Any suggestions? (It can be anything without explicit language).

>>17836125
yes, his live really rurned around the past few months. he was living with his parents but we moced in together. he also finished his education half a year ago. lots of changes that he might have troubles adapting to.
his family plays emotional support up very highly. they have a whats app group and they share whatever the feck anyone of them is doing at the moment there and then get over the top praise for it. it's kind of cute but he is expecting me to be the same and i'm really on the other side of that spectrum. my family and i don't share everyday stuff. we are pretty close too but more in spurts. we gather and have a blast and then everyone goes their way again unless we have really important news or so.

i think it would be best if we could take a bit from both worlds, but so dar he is very resistant to any kind of "letting loose".

i know this is not only him being weird. i think it is more the fact that we are so opposite on those rhings that causes troubles. i think i'm trying hard to find a balance and also try to not hold on to MY ways stubbornly. but i can't really see much effort in that direction from his side...

>>17836120
>he only has a high-paying job because it is one that only very few people do. there is almost no competition.
>he also works wirh machines mostly. they don't care about someone being insecure, so he's good.
Got it. My area was far more competitive and intensively team-based. Lots of money flying by, so lots of backstabbing internally if one wasn't watching out. It also sounds like he may be particularly fixated on you / romantic attachment.
>i just wonder where the fuck this insecurity comes from. as far as i can tell, his parents dodged the common pitfalls that lead to it.
Were you his first real gf or something...?
>he doea have severe abandonment issues but again, i see no reason for them. he never got abandoned. well, his ex did, but that was when he was 17 and they only dated for about 4 month. maybe his life was ao sheltered that this one incident was able to tilt his mental health that much? as in, this was thw first time he came in touch with how cruel the world can be and it compeltely destroyed him since he grew up in a fairy tale?
He should have gotten over it by now if he's proposing marriage to you. It was also many years ago. Not a valid reason on his part, remotely.

I think it sounds like he (a) went through a long and painful dry spell in college, (b) is consequently afraid of losing you, (c) is now also dealing with the post-graduation entry-level life transition if that affects anything, and (d) obviously has no reasonable standard for how to properly behave in a relationship.

Ultimatum and/or therapy referral.

>>17836167

>his family plays emotional support up very highly. they have a whats app group and they share whatever the feck anyone of them is doing at the moment there and then get over the top praise for it. it's kind of cute but he is expecting me to be the same and i'm really on the other side of that spectrum.
This is likely a contributing factor. I've never heard of that in my life. It's cute, but it definitely sets a very high requirement from the onset. Still, that's almost like a scrapbook or something, it's not completely out of the realm of sanity. It's not 11-missed-calls-and-can't-go-to-a-grocery-store-alone-and-please-dont-leave-me.

>i know this is not only him being weird. i think it is more the fact that we are so opposite on those rhings that causes troubles. i think i'm trying hard to find a balance and also try to not hold on to MY ways stubbornly. but i can't really see much effort in that direction from his side...
That's like trying to compromise in deciding between purchasing (a) a cheaper economy car (amount of emotional support you view as normal), (b) a large expensive luxury sedan (amount of emotional support his family views as normal), or (c) Air Force One (amount of emotional support he is demanding).

This is still the best plan imo:
>>17836101

Also ignore the stuff I said about 'codependence'; I meant just 'abandonment issues'. I get them mixed up sometimes.

>>17836203
>share whatever the feck anyone of them is doing at the moment there and then get over the top praise for it
actually on second though, that is pretty strange.

g2g but this was interesting. helped me reflect a bit on some of my own past. good luck with whichever option you decide on.

>>17836170
he's very fixated on me, yes. for example, if we are somewhere (family or friends gathering or in public), he will never leave my side. he needs constant body contact. which can get pretty annoying. and also embarassing to be honest...

well, i don't know his whole dating history, but i know of that one ex that went abroad and just left him. after rhat i also know that he had a short thing with an exchange student (who obviously has to go back again too). i don't know how many girls he has actually bwwn wirh but i suspect ot that much. he's extremely oblivious to flirting/hints and rather clumsy when it comes to it.

i do think that what you mentioned ( he has no clue how to behave in a relationship) is true. but that's entirely my fault because i went for a guy with almost no experience... i can't expect him to just KNOW

>>17836203
that example with the vehicles makes sense. now we just need to find one that we can both live with...

i do think he is very emotionally dependant though. but i also think that he wished i was more dependant on him. which i refuse (i come a family where independence is something to strive for) and he doesn't like that one bit.

thanks anons. i was really feeling bad about this when i made this thread. i guess i needed to vent my emotions a bit. this really helped. i feel less stuck now. i will tell im honestly what i told you and see if he is able to mane anything out of it. i won't expect him to magically teansform into whatever i want him to. i am aware that i need to make compromises too. but some effort from him is needed tol

>>17836242
they recently added me to that group and i hate it so much. now i'm expected to contribute to their circlejerk too...
the parents always post pics from their trips and everybody has to be in awe and then whenever someone goes outside of the house you need to ask if they got back save and yaddayadda. and all is soooooo lovely that i'm getting diabetes from reading. i guess it bugs me because to me it seems so ingenuine. but maybe it isn't. maybe it just seems like this to me because it's not how i naturally respond to people
it seems like they all put on a weird act around each other.

it helped me see clearer too! thanks anon

>>17836283
>for example, if we are somewhere (family or friends gathering or in public), he will never leave my side.
Hmm. I've always liked being with my gf if I had one at the time at parties and events -- it makes it socially easier to approach and talk to other couples, compared to being just a guy on my own, so we meet more people and spend some time together. I wouldn't say I was uncomfortable with splitting up for part of it though.
>he needs constant body contact. which can get pretty annoying. and also embarassing to be honest...
This is really weird.

>well, i don't know his whole dating history, but i know of that one ex that went abroad and just left him. after rhat i also know that he had a short thing with an exchange student (who obviously has to go back again too). i don't know how many girls he has actually bwwn wirh but i suspect ot that much. he's extremely oblivious to flirting/hints and rather clumsy when it comes to it.
Supports this hypothesis:
>>17836170
>I think it sounds like he (a) went through a long and painful dry spell in college, (b) is consequently afraid of losing you, (c) is now also dealing with the post-graduation entry-level life transition if that affects anything, and (d) obviously has no reasonable standard for how to properly behave in a relationship.
It also sounds like his chances at getting into another nice relationship post-college if he had to could be a lot worse. It's much harder at that point, for guys at least. He's likely aware of this and it probably drives some of the abandonment anxieties.

>i went for a guy with almost no experience... i can't expect him to just KNOW
So you may occasionally need to tell him things. But you already did, so....

>i also think that he wished i was more dependant on him. which i refuse (i come a family where independence is something to strive for)
You're not doing anything wrong here.
>and he doesn't like that one bit.
This is enough of a red flag to make me write again.

>>17836283
Cont.
>and he doesn't like that one bit.
I'm not sure how seriously this sentiment has been expressed, but this suggests controlling tendencies. If so, that would much more strongly suggest the 'run away' option.
>i will tell im honestly what i told you and see if he is able to mane anything out of it.
Good strategy. If he gets controlling or possessive or refuses to change then stand up for yourself and walk. Your time is ticking, too. Don't fall into something on a whim that turns into a cage.

>>17836301
>they recently added me to that group and i hate it so much. now i'm expected to contribute to their circlejerk too...
Then don't if it makes you uncomfortable. It's kind of weird. It will be telling to see how they react if you don't post much of anything. If it's coercive, that tells you something.
>whenever someone goes outside of the house you need to ask if they got back save and yaddayadda.
Call me paranoid but that sounds almost like a way of tracking what you do. Again watch carefully for controlling tendencies. Don't be afraid to get out if they appear.

Much more than meets the eye here it seems.

>>17835843
if ur older he just wants sex from you pull ur head out of ur ass

EW GROSS OLD LADY IS A PEDOPHILE NEWS AT 1