what do I need to be a virtuous man? does defending the law

Let us begin, what do think virtuous is?

>>17477902
I think of a virtuous man as one who deserves praise by people due to being a good example in everything he does

might have traits of a gentleman, but unlike a gentleman a virtuous man does not need to excel in manners or being excellently polite.

>>17477917
Then what he does define him. However, I think you'd be incorrect in assuming that because his actions are just and virtuous, he would receive proper accommodations from the populist.

Isn't wanting praise in reward for action, virtuous?

Let us find this answer together.

>>17477917

so you dont want to know about to be virtuous, just how to be praised.

What virtues do you hold valuable?
Integrity? Honor? Politeness? Work ethic? Upholding law and order?
And out of the virtues you consider valuable, how serious do you take them? You can have a strong work ethic and value strong work ethic and still slack off here and there. You can value integrity but still fib here and there. You can be polite and value politeness and being a gentleman, but still be an asshole or a prick here and there.

And the same goes for vices. You can be a polite god fearing gentleman and still smoke and drink like you're 16.

tl;dr
What do you consider your virtues and what you find to be important to uphold, and what do you consider to be 'bad' habits and vices?

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There are no moral phenomena, only moral interpretations of phenomena.

A man who is concerned with being a good man instead of being good at being a man is a well-groomed slave.

Defending the law? LOL

>>17477928
the intentions matter not, if what he accomplish is undeniable good then it would be disrespectful to disregard his actions because of things that do not alter the result, like the motives.
A rightheous man does good because he seeks it
A honest man does not do good because he does not seek it, thus he considers that he would be an hypocrite
A virtuous man does good because he considers it to be the correct thing, even when his feelings might contradict it

Perhaps I phrased incorrectly my last post, saying that a virtuous man deserves praise doesn't mean that a virtuous man should seek praise or must be praised for him to be

>>17477937
lets

>>17477944
>virtuous you hold valuable
Duty, I think a storng sense of duty is a really important thing in a man.
Hypothetically and philosophically speaking, I believe world could be great if everyone had a strong sense of duty, a sense of "I must do what is correct" regardless of personal grudges of feelings

>>17477948
>A man who is concerned with being a good man instead of being good at being a man is a well-groomed slave.
that doesn't make any sense because he doesn't remotedly imply what is to be a man

fucking nietzsche, I hate him with passion

A man has to have a code. Determine yours, and follow it. Morality is an illusion, it's something we tell ourselves exists but differs from person to person. Find your limits, and don't go past them, and you'll be as virtuous as anyone can be expected to be.

>>17477940
not him, but I actually want to be praised more often when I do things well, what can I do?

>>17477961
The second sentence isn't from Nietzsche.

>>17477965
giving me too much freedom ("do what you think is right, morality is an illusion") makes me incredibly stressful because I can't know if I'm doing the correct thing or if I'm fucking up

hence why I rather follow the law
but then it struck me if I was fucking up by upholding the law and if ther was something else I needed to not fuck up
I panicked and made this thread and I'm having a really autistic stroke that won't allow me to sleep peacefully until I speak this matter with some anons

>>17477983
I still hate him for spawning nihilism, specially the retards who use it as a pretension to justify their crippling depression at the same time that they demand everyone else to be as depressed as them. Exactly the opposite of what Nietzsche intended, but his fault nonetheless

>>17477994
You're afraid of other people. Improve yourself and become more independent, and your moral paranoia will atrophy along with it.

>>17478000
>Improve yourself
no shit

>>17478000
let me rephrase the "no shit"

It doesn't matter what ails me, even you are saying that I need to improve myself and I'm asking for something that would improve myself, becoming a better person

>due to this overhelming consensus, both anons started to argue bitterly

>>17477955
A problem that many before you have faced. Can virtue be taught or is it there within.

Socrates would agree with you on upholding the laws of your state. Even moresoe he sought death over sacrificing this.

So yes. It does begin with upholding the laws of your own country/state.

However, being virtuous does not necessarily follow with praise.

>>17478034
>However, being virtuous does not necessarily follow with praise.
and ironically Socrates would be the best example of that

then if not for the recognition of those around him, for what reason would a man be virtuous?

>>17478039
To stay true to himself, and others.
It presupposes praise or knowing that one's actions will be recorded. Action without hope of reward or acknowledgment. But nonetheless, being virtuous for the sake of.

It is difficult for a positive action within a garden of rot. And indeed in may be overlooked. We don't know the countless virtuous people unrecorded in history. But assuming one may be recorded because of such may be negative, in a sense of hubris.

Sounds like you just want an easy way to have moral superiority.

>>17478039
>recognition of those around him

Found the problem.

The seeking of recognition is entirely amoral and, indeed, often leads people into committing horrible atrocities. Men with a strong sense of morality will sacrifice recognition to uphold their virtues. You're lying to yourself about your intentions so you can believe that you're a much better person than you actually are. Seeking recognition leads to letting someone else define morality for you, which in turn lets ambitious people who don't care about you use you for their own selfish ends. Even Muslim suicide bombers are trying to be "good people."

You will never be the owner of your own life as long as you put social recognition above defining morality on your own terms. But if you'd prefer to be a simpering beta faggot for the rest of your life, throw a dart and pick a religion at random.

>>17478053
>To stay true to himself, and others.
then what if it is in the nature of a man to be vile, that he desires to do no good but instead he resigns and acts virtuously opposing his feelings?
what if a man doesn't want to do good but he does it anyway?
is being correct more important than being right?

>>17478067
putting pedrantry aside, i was genuinely curious and I took offense on you reading too much and assuming all that in your post, so if you were in person I would deman an apology, but this is the internet

Now, in other order of things

I'm fucking tired of freedom, its a completely overrated thing. I live in a first world country with a life so shamefully easy that I have so much freedom in whatever I want to do or decide to do that I rather sacrifice some of it to gain some security

security in my future, a succesful career, a nice relationship. All that shit. I'm fucking tired of weak ambivalent statements like "you can do anything" or "there is no such thing as normal" and related to this thread "There is no good and bad, you decide that yourself". Well fuck that, after what I've seen and learnt my decision is that there is such a thing as an objetive goodness and evil and I'm determinted to seek it

with some help

>>17478068
Are you assuming man is born of amoral stature, and thus by becoming virtuous becoming a rebel to the status quo?

As to your last two questions I need more clarification.

A man who does good but wishes not to and where correct and right lay.

>>17478087
absolutely not, I believe the nature of human is one of goodness

but that's for another time

to put it more simply I'll put it in a first person perspective

what if I really want to do henious acts and be a vile despicable man but, tied to a sense of duty, decide to do the opposite because "its the right thing to do"?
in another way, what if I do something good like helping someone but inside I desire ill for that person?

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>>17478086
Fear no longer, lost soul, I am here to give you the salvation you need!

Morality is fighting oppression. Since all people are equal, it follows that all differences in achievement are due to phantom oppression. Since whites are the most successful, it logically follows that whites are the most oppressive! Therefore, you must destroy your own civilization for Israe- I mean, morality! Any attempt to debate with me is prove of your own immorality. You can only be moral by obeying me!

>>17478119
oh fuck you

seriously?

I hoped that you wouldn't go there, I don't know why the fuck I though you would take it seriously

I fucking hate you, really, if you gave it half a though you would have realized that precisely the ones that try to impose the "there are no morals, there is no such a thing as right or wrong" are precisely the social marxists at universities that love the concept of moral relativism, the best entryway for communist to use things like "the end justify the means". A strong code of imposed morals is PRECISELY what conservatism preaches, things like loving the family, your country, praying to God, etc.

but no

The moment I said "freedom is overrated" I should have known you would bring the fucking meme and turn it into a joke
I though we were having a good conversation and you went and disappointed me. I'm mad as fuck, for real

>>17478096
Then know that heinous acts are not virtuous. If you present yourself to others under the pretense of doing well, then you may as well not present yourself to them. For if you cannot help them, but hinder them, why approach?

To make them feel less, or hurt them. That is not virtuous. Even by the thought of it.

But if you feel ill for doing someone a favor, or helping because you receive no praise or reward, then you shouldn't venture into doing it in the first place. Expecting rewards for good service is seldom reconciled. And if you feel you'd be building up a personality or complex of hate towards the less significant, wouldn't it be best to improve yourself before hand?

>>17478140
If you understood nihilism you would know it demands more courage and devotion than any other moral system.

Also,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade

But please, continue trying to tell me how faith in God makes a person moral.

>>17478145
its not that you feel ill for soing someone a favor or being disappoitnted for not receiving a reward. I mean doing good things that you really don't want to do only because the person considers that it is the correct thing to do.
for example:
"I think people who get drunk are retards and I despise them, but if I find someone on the street in that state I'll try to help him or even call an ambulance, even though I'm not going to get anything from it"
From a perspective, you are being dishonest and not acting true to your feelings

>why approach?
because sharing a drink called loneliness is better than drinking alone

>>17478096
it depends whether he decides not to because he really knows it's not the right thing, whether his will agrees with his intellect. then he would realize he was almost misled by his desire, a partial, fleeting inclination, a voice telling him to do something base. if he actually confronts that then he will recognize the desire or urge and it won't just be the focus anymore, with him powerless and identifying with it.

>>17478161
No fuck you

>nihilist
I should have known

>>17478162
I'd think because you are a good person you are acting from your true feelings. But there is also a line where it becomes intrusive and in your example bothersome. Though you may save them from potential rape or mugging, they also may live close by.

It is virtuous to help someone who is not within their wits as your example offers. But if you feel it is bothersome, that's different.

And it is hard as fuck to get to the point where the feeling isn't bothersome, so don't feel like it's an alien feeling.

>>17477971
Learn to internalize validation. Seek it from within yourself and not other people. It doesn't matter if you receive praise as long as you know you did a good deed.

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>>17478086
>sacrificing freedom for security
You seem like an idiot that can't make up his own mind so you want others to tell you how you should live.