Should I take an SSRI? Do they work? It seems like there's

>>17364256
ive not had good experiences with ssris

It does not seem that way to those of us who aren't suffering from a severe mental illness.

>>17364260
Do tell.

>>17364261
I'm suffering from a severe mental illness.

>>17364256
I'm severely mentally ill, and I think it's down to the individual I'm afraid.

Sertraline made me feel like utter SHIT. Honestly one of the worst fucking experiences.

Citalopram improved my focus somewhat, but did little to improve my anxiety and depression.

My guess is that for people with a more common case of anxiety, depression, or OCD, they may work a bit better. I'm not sure.

It's kind of hard to put into words what they felt like, so I can only really summarise. Shit is complicated.

>>17364282
I've seen some talk that a decent amount of that variation might be quantifiable. For example, if you throw a genetic sequence you can get for 100 dollars on the internet into a service like promethease, it can tell you if you have a genetic variant that makes you 7x less likely to respond to amitriptyline (Elavil), citalopram (Celexa), paroxetine (Paxil), and venlafaxine (Effexor). The variation seems to be at least somewhat quantifiable if we ignore the idea that these drugs are equal to active placebos.

So I'm more interested in whether or not people have gotten anything at all from these drugs.

They don't work well. I would really make talk therapy first line, mood stabilizers second line, and antidepressants third line. The SSRI's in particular can make you sexless and uncomfortable in exchange for a minor change in affect.

>>17364282
>>17364287

Also, how long did you try the Sertraline for? Is it possible that it made you feel like shit as a precursor to working?

>>17364293

Talk therapy doesn't work for me for various reasons. I need pharmacological intervention or I'm not going to make it.

>>17364264
>I'm suffering from a severe mental illness.
Yeah, I know, because you'd have to be to think ssris don't work

>>17364293
By uncomfortable, I mean taking an SSRI or antipsychotic changes your body chemistry in ways they don't fully understand, and you can feel a little sick. Lightheadedness, weight gain, sexual side effects...and a risk that the drug has no noticeable benefits at all.

Psychiatry is valid, but it's ruled by money and collaborative thought between way too many different people. That's how you get some medications that work perfectly, and some that might not even work, on the same regulated market

>>17364297
>How long did you try the Sertraline for.

Hmmm. 2 months maybe? It's a little fuzzy. I remember calling my doctor (psychiatrist) and explaining how bad it had gotten. This was about 2 and a half weeks before I stopped taking them if I recall correctly.

>>17364311

There's some data to suggest they don't, mostly mined from unsubmitted FDA trials that were available via the freedom of info act.

>>17364316

I'm considering that Citalopram might have not been bioavailable to you and thusly didn't make you feel bad and any improvement you saw was placebo. Citalopram is not bioavailable to me according to genetic testing; it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier nearly as well. 2 months is a long time, though.

>>17364312

>I mean taking an SSRI or antipsychotic changes your body chemistry in ways they don't fully understand

I'm okay with this.

>That's how you get some medications that work perfectly

Really, though? Did all of the regulatory agencies get it wrong, all across the world?

>>17364297
>talk therapy doesn't work for me
then you aren't open enough for it to work, and you might have seen some therapists who really suck

>I need pharmacological intervention or I'm not going to make it.
Then by all means get the intervention. Maybe you'll be one of the few that SSRI's turns things around for. About half of those people need good talk therapy for the benefit to last.

And there are a lot of other options besides SSRI's. Whatever happens, I assure you that you'll make it.

Large scale studies ave repeatedly shown they're no better than placebo for alleviating depression, in all but the most severe cases.

Sorry bud, you can't drug your way to feeling decent. Have to do it the hard way by refining your diet and taking a hard and honest look at your life and lifestyle.

Or you can eat a lot of chocolate. The good stuff. Something like Taza. That somewhat affords the means for functionality and self evaluation.

Going to be blunt here though, antidepressants are a scam as a whole. Not to say they don't have some pharmacological basis, or that they're just sugar pills or something. They just don't provide meaningful outcomes or help an individual progress whatsoever as far as identifying and fixing core problems. It's like getting liposuction or gastric bypass and never asking yourself why you're overweight to begin with.

Good luck. I had a long history with severe depression sometimes to the point where I could barely generate sentences. Stayed on the brink of killing myself for long periods of time. There are reasons, for all of it. Some mecanical, some psychological. Glad I never succumbed to the antidepressant scam or went near those things, I've seen where they get people. Nowhere, and nowhere good. Seen it once, seen it ten times, seen it twenty times, and until our drug culture begins to fade, I'll see it again.

Good luck.

>>17364324
>then you aren't open enough for it to work, and you might have seen some therapists who really suck

I know I'm not. I'm also not open enough for religion to work, despite the fact that religion would probably benefit me hugely.

I'm going to sound like a massive cunt - and I've told psychiatrists this - but I'm really, really smart. Maybe not right now with benzos coursing through my blood, but the point still stands. My college was always better than their college. I skipped many grades and always wind up verbally abusing them like good will fucking hunting. It always ends with me quietly rejecting their ideas as stupid and flawed and there's nothing I can do about it.

>Whatever happens, I assure you that you'll make it.

It's not entirely clear.

>>17364319
This is second hand, but coming from professionals. It only takes a few studies showing your medication successfully works. Scientific studies, especially psychologal ones, are often very hard to reproduce and get the same results. Far as I know, you don't have to recreate your test enough times or publish tests where your medication didn't work.

>>17364326

>Large scale studies ave repeatedly shown they're no better than placebo for alleviating depression, in all but the most severe cases.

Once or twice, that is true.

My problem is bigger than depression, anyhow. I haven't really seen a repudiation of SSRI treatment of OCD, which I have.

>>17364339

Correct, yes. But the FDA has access to all those records and makes the judgment based on all of the data whether or not your drug is legitimate. I've worked briefly in the pharmaceutical industry. The lack of good information seems to impact mostly the public and prescribing doctors moreso than the regulatory process itself.

>>17364319
Placebo... very unlikely. I'm very pessimistic and suspicious by nature and it took me a few months to even want to try them..

>>17364346

Maybe some minor active placebo effect to consider as well. If I give you a pill that produces side effects, those effects will be very real, but their benefit will not - at least not necessarily. But I get it. Nobody wants to attribute anything to the placebo effect, and for what its worth, I believe you.

>>17364350

It might interest you to know that different dosages actually made me feel different. I think it was 20 MG that helped me focus. I don't remember feeling that effect on 40MG, and this was when I was feeling a little bit more confident about that particular effect. I'm very lethargic.

>>17364332
>I always...good will hunting and verbally abuse them
Then it sounds like a personality issue. Your therapist has to be smart enough to comprehend your problems, not smarter than you.

>I would probably benefit from religion
Yeah I doubt that, considering you said you were both skeptical and intelligent. No more to say to that, or how psychology was somehow compared to religion. You're having a psychological problem, and if you were smarter and more unbiased than the entire field of people, you wouldn't be in need of help.

Just the fact you're asking if an SSRI is going to fix things shows you aren't a mega genius who will be smarter than every therapist he meets.

They didn't work for me. They kind of exacerbated my depression and I wound up getting suicidal thoughts.

Caused me to stop taking them. Could have been that specific brand or that specific dosage but I never bothered to try and tweak the medication with the doctor. Just kinda quit.


One thing that did come about because of it is that I can't enlist now because apparently having mental illness like depression is a big no-no for the army/airforce/whatever, so that was fun.

>>17364256
I have panic disorder. I'm taking sertraline (50mg) since 3 months. I'm doing great right now. It greatly increased my quality of life. I have little annoying side effects but it's worth it.

>>17364366

>Then it sounds like a personality issue

Maybe, I'm willing to consider that angle. But I always end up driving them down the road I want them to go down. Maybe I could find one who would see what I was doing and stop me, but I've simply not found a single psychiatrist of that quality despite having seen several Jews who were supposed to be good. Really, I have nothing more to say on the subject. I'm convinced that pharmacological intervention is my only possible hope.

>Yeah I doubt that

My problems are very specific and belief in religion would ameliorate them. I'm on the cusp of madness and rationality. I didn't have these problems until recently, and things suddenly went from 0 to 10 literally overnight.

>You're having a psychological problem, and if you were smarter and more unbiased than the entire field of people, you wouldn't be in need of help

Not true.

>Just the fact you're asking if an SSRI is going to fix things shows you aren't a mega genius who will be smarter than every therapist he meets.

It's wishful thinking. I feel on the cusp of a positive outcome. My dysfunction isn't major and systemic - at least to my knowledge. I feel as though a legitimate push in a positive direction would help me deal with my own issues more effectively.

>>17364340
>OCD

man, true OCD is rough. I hope you accept help. I'm sorry you're in anguish.

>>17364345
>the lack of good information...
I was more talking about how certain meds just aren't too helpful. Are they being prescribed inappropriately, like to people who don't need and wouldn't benefit from them?

>>17364380

Several psychiatrists have diagnosed me with "pure" OCD, which isn't as flashy as conventional OCD. I feel badly for those people as well.

>I was more talking about how certain meds just aren't too helpful. Are they being prescribed inappropriately, like to people who don't need and wouldn't benefit from them?

Right. That's a doctor-level issue. Sadly, that's how marketing works.

>>17364377

I'd be okay with my dick falling off so long as the drug worked.

>>17364373

How long did you take them?

>>17364373
Very interesting. I've never had any intention of joining the military, but recently I got ahold of my old medical records and found "Depression NEC" and "ADHD" as conditions, dating back to when I was like 15. I never was prescribed antidepressants, though I did take the amphetamines with the intention of either selling or abusing them. Mostly did the latter, because I was afraid I would accidentally give them to someone with screwed up blood pressure or a mechanical problem with their heart I didn't know about.

Anyway. Interesting the military would probably reject me, even if I hid the other stuff I never had diagnosed.

>>17364383
I was sceptical at first too but, you know, I had nothing to loose, I was already at my lowest. Try them. If you don't like it, then stop or try something else. I would recommend therapy as well. And don't forget that you can "shop" your therapist. The most important thing is that you feel you can trust him/her and that you feel confortable opening to him/her.

>>17364256

I go to talk therapy and was diagnosed as having OCD with ritualistic compulsions stemming from my deep internal need for complete and total control. Things happening outside of my control like minor health problems not related to lifestyle give me crippling anxiety and cause me to devise plans that have specious and questionable benefit for immense personal cost of time and money. I cannot sleep when I am obsessive.

My therapist suggest I talk to a psychiatrist about getting an SSRI. I was started on a 50mg dose of Zoloft (Sertraline) and day one I felt different but happy and aloof. Day two I felt normal. Day three I had crippling panic attacks so I stopped taking it, but then I did drink a beer a couple hours before so maybe that would be it.

I am waiting to hear from my doctor about what I should do now.

>>17364379
>I always lead the psychologist in conversation and they always take my word as the truth
Yeah, that's a huge problem, and a lot of therapists are too self-satisfied, lazy, or passive to do anything about it. I ended up in a bad spot mentally and met some therapists who worked with high-risk clients. They were much better simply because they had an assertive approach. Maybe look for an assertive one.

Also, if I had to choose talking to a yes man or talking to nobody, I'd talk to a yes man.

And everything in moderation. You could have someone who challenged you until you started having an ego breakdown or a solipsistic crisis, but that wouldn't be therapy.

>not true

I mean two, three, four heads are better than one. What makes you think you're honestly better soloing this?

>I feel on the verge, like a small push would help
That's pretty good news. I guess you're open to finding a good psychiatrist? Odds are a good psychiatrist will prescribe something that helps a little, or maybe significantly. I'd be optimistic about it, although figuring out exactly what's wrong is a process.

Most people swear by diet and exercise too, even though few are really dieting or exercising.

>>17364403

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I am currently trying them, and it seems to have exacerbated the problem. I'm in it for the long haul, though. Benzos are a band-aid. They take me from an 8.5 to a 5.

>>17364407

Thanks for sharing. I have OCD/panic disorder the likes of which I'm not entirely comfortably describing for literal fear of triggering myself.

>>17364412

The long and short of it is that I'm entirely convinced of my own reality and feel I can effective advocate for it. Unfortunately, this reality is causing me an undue level of stress. There's no fundamental logical breakdown that can be identified and pacified. I'd rather not go into it, but I've yet to be stumped in this regard. The answer I commonly get is that I simply must delude myself in some capacity to function. Also, I recognize that the phenomenon isn't entirely logical because its intensity waxes and wanes somewhat with my mood, but it seems, at its core, immune to a quick fix. I'm happy with the concept of simply moving on so long as my brain can come to grips with and accept that a false reality is a necessary reality.

>Most people swear by diet and exercise too, even though few are really dieting or exercising.

I do this. Exercise does help, briefly, for a few hours while the chemicals are circulating. I recommend it.

>>17364256
>Should I take an SSRI?
We don't have the information to tell you that. You need to speak to a psychiatrist about that.

>Do they work?
The first thing to understand about depression is that it is not, in and of itself, a disease. It is a symptom common to dozens of different diseases, many of which we still don't have a good way of telling apart, and sone of which we don't even have names for.

SSRIs treat a specific subset of those diseases. If you have one of tbose, then SSRIs generally work. If you don't, then it's like using cold medicine to treat the flu: the medicine for a disease you don't have is not going to do you a whole lot of good.

One other thin you should be aware of: there are certain genetic conditions that drastically increase a person's sensitivity to SSRIs. I happen to have one of them. If you do too, then you need to be careful with them, because it becomes very easy to overshoot on the dosage and give you too much. That can be dangerous.

>It seems like there's considerable evidence that they don't.
For some conditions, yes. I refer you back to my comment on using cold medicine to treat the flu.

>Can you imagine subjecting yourself to a bunch of shitty side effects for no discernible benefit?
The process of finding a good medication match is not fun. As you might imagine from my talk on dosages and genetic conditions, I have been there. It took about a year and a half, and about ten different medications, before I got a good match. Before then I'd had a couple of half-decent matches, a number of misses, and one extremely poor match (which wasn't an SSRI; that one was actually a blood-pressure medication in an off-label use). It was, however, completely worthwhile.

>>17364425

>We don't have the information to tell you that. You need to speak to a psychiatrist about that.

I'm looking for opinions, and don't hold psychiatrists as the gold standard. I appreciate the human touch. I've already read all the journals, I want to see if information is lurking in anecdotes based on various patterns that might suggest the drugs are legitimate to me.

>The first thing to understand about depression is that it is not, in and of itself, a disease. It is a symptom common to dozens of different diseases, many of which we still don't have a good way of telling apart, and sone of which we don't even have names for.

Right, depression is an adjunct to my OCD. I'm not worried about it. It's not severe.

>there are certain genetic conditions that drastically increase a person's sensitivity to SSRIs

I am. I'm heavily resistant to various SSRIs.

>For some conditions, yes. I refer you back to my comment on using cold medicine to treat the flu.

That's an interesting theory.

> It took about a year and a half, and about ten different medications, before I got a good match

What worked and what didn't work?

>>17364425
> it was, however, completely worthwhile.

Not the OP, but it kinda made me feel good to read that. I've been screwing around with medication for a year now. About to move on to anti-psychotics, if my liver is good enough (my therapist won't prescribe it to me if my physical health is threatened).

>>17364422

No problem. I KNOW exactly what you are talking about. I cannot start thinking about things that trigger me because I can't stop once triggered. It sucks being terrified of your own mind.

It is ironic in a macabre kind of way. My obsession for control and knowledge leaves me a slave to my own mind. Sometimes I don't want to live anymore.

>>17364435

Living is still worth it. You'd have to put me through a lot more than the horrors my own mind can produce for me to disagree with that statement. Even one happy feeling a day is enough.

I say this spending most of my day in ruminative thought, as in many, many hours.

>>17364422
So your reasoning is that if your OCD is not delusional, then you shouldn't seek any help, and plan to live with it?

>>17364453

My reasoning is that if it not delusional, I cannot be convinced out of the position. It's like an idea that has morphed and taken shape in my brain as an organism would evolve in the wild, and it has become an apex predator, immune to eradication through most conventional means. How did I create this awful, awful entity? I'm an intelligent person who spent a considerable time molding it. To convince it to go away is, as such, paradoxical. This is a mental illness that has survived cycle after cycle after cycle after cycle in my brain. It has been wrung through and out for hundreds of hours. How could such an organism created by a superior mind fall to a lesser mind?

I feel as though my best bet is to simply feel good enough to ignore the nagging feature of OCD that legitimates its existence. In time, I hope (not very optimistically), to phase out the problem. I've considered opiates, but I'm not even convinced of their efficacy. As you can see, this is a pretty scary pathological state.

>>17364465
I would probably write a different story for you, but like you said, you're strong minded enough to grip on to the one where you don't get help and abuse opiates. I'd be stupid to spend my day explaining my hunch about hope to someone who has decided they are doomed.

>>17364482

On the contrary, I've looked for help. I'm trying all legitimate venues, I'm just keeping my options open so I won't be devastated if the first and second line fail.

>>17364492
Don't give up, man. Don't even think about giving up.

>>17364527

Luckily that is not a problem I have.

>>17364536
Being in a state of really bad obsession or drug depemdence is a loss too. You have more to offer the world and yourself than that.

>>17364597

That's alright. Min/maxing your happiness seems contradictory.

Sertraline worked for a bit but I got acclimated to it or something. Welbutrin fucked up my boners, venlafaxine didn't really work for me, and prozac has pretty much cleared up my depression with no notable side effects.
They work different for everyone, keep trying bro

>>17364624

>prozac has pretty much cleared up my depression with no notable side effects

What was that process like for you?

After being on it for a few days, it seems to have increased my anxiety and obsessive thoughts considerably. Did you have a similar exacerbation in the early stages?

Fasting for 1 day is meant to help depression

>>17364256
caffeine is Proven to have antidepressant effects decreases risk of suicide. whereas ssri research is all proving not much better than placebo

>>17364256
Less alone time will drastically help depression at least in my case even if it's uncomfortable being around others and it feels like it won't get better helped me a fair bit