How do you stop feeling insecure about something you can't

According to the patterns I've been taught, I should be picking up some sad mop with no self-esteem for a wife, who'll do all the work for me in hopes of gaining any worth and value for herself. This is unacceptable and shitty.

A sane, reasonable solution would be to go to a psychiatrist, but I am yet to convince a psychiatrist that I am actually male, and can't afford to give him anything sparkly as a distraction.

I don't really believe my family considers any of their remarks actively harmful, they just don't realise it's easy to put two and two together and understand the joint message going "we understand and accept your choice to become a stupid evil destructive inherently narcissistic ape".

I believe it's their doing that I'm afraid of going into explicitly masculine or exclusively male spaces, out of fear that they'll smell something's off and tear me to fucking shreds and eat the remaining pieces that they can't fuck.

Stop posting. Take it to /lgbt/, we can see through the bullshit here.

>>17357401
I made the exact same thread on /lgbt/ and I'm on my third bump.

And if there is bullshit at hand, I am not seeing it. Please elaborate.

>>17357281
My opinion about this shit isn't popular, but here it is: I think you should just learn to be happy with the you that you are. I don't think it's healthy or productive to try and mutilate your body, fuck it up with hormones, or anything else. There are things in life we can't change, that we have to learn to accept. That's the way of the world. Just because you CAN take a bunch of hormones to chance your voice, grow some facial hair, etc, doesn't mean that it's the best choice. Over half of trans folks commit or attempt suicide. Clearly something isn't right. What happens when you take your hormones and you're still not happy? Being content with your life isn't about what you wear, how you look, the things that you have. It's something you choose for yourself, and if you can't do that without some external source, it's unlikely you'll ever be able to do it.

>>17357407
Well, we believe your story we just don't care for trans people because they unnecessarily complicated their lives by transitioning. It's a pretty big meme and we don't sympathize with idiots who fall for it.

>>17357420
Whenever I have the thought, "what if I wasn't trans?", I always find myself imagining life as a normal man. No scenario of a life being tolerable is an option.

>>17357423
I can choose to be permanently unhappy forever in this body, or I can alter this body in a way in which most people who have experienced similar feelings have found happiness, is it not a reasonable solution?

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>>17357450
Take it somewhere else, we don't care.

>>17357459
I'll just have to make this thread some other time and omit key information, wasting your time more and frustrating you endlessly.

>>17357401
>/lgbt/ doesn't do advice
>/adv/ doesn't do lgbt

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>>17357464
This is why no one likes dealing with trans people.

>>17357450
Fresh anon here. But I'm with other one. You put too much weight on the whole gender thing. That's what really stupid here. You belive too much on the gender roles and let them determine who you are. That's toxic, unhealthy and not in line with reality. You like masculine traits? Being independent, strong, doing man stuff with man company? Great! Be strong independent women who goes around with guys. Many guys would love that sort of girlfriend or wife! Oh, you like girls? No problem be strong, independent lesbian. No need to put that much weigh on the whole gender thing.

>>17357467
We do LGB but never T.

>>17357469
My problem with gender is having a cunt and breasts, not being regarded and treated on genuine equal grounds by other men, and lacking the vocal range to sing along to Rammstein.

My family is FULL of self-assured, independent strong butch women, hence the whole "men are useless"-thing. I helped my mom build a house for crying out loud. I was raised with the polar opposite of standard gender stereotypes and always respected in my choices, and for reference my sister grew up completely straight and normal with no insecurities of her own gender.

>>17357481
>Not being treated on equal ground

Dude it's 2016. We aren't in the 50s. Stop getting sucked into the oppressed Olympics.

>>17357469
To elaborate on that point further

>>17357281
>I'd eat a hat full of shit if I'd be completely sane and comfortable with my identity had I been born male and raised like this.

Now you are projecting much and your confidence in this is really what makes people doubt you. It's because so much confidence is usually sign of mental instability (ironic I know) but to put that in perspective and I don't mean it as a joke I just want to ilustrate, insane people are 100% sure there are someone else, like Napoleon or Elvis, they are just adamant in their convictions.

Sane, adjusted people won't make that statement very confident in themselves. They might think they would be happy in different shoes but they are doubtfull, they don't put all their problems in this one basket. They see wider perspective.

I belive you have some real issues, that you have to battle, but I am almost sure (see, a joke!) that it's not about your actual gender. It might be about the way you look at the world, gender, sex, social normes and most importantly yourself.

I remember time when I wanted to be girl. I know you must be infuriated by people telling you it's a phase. I don't want to say this word, it's not the one I'm thinking about. I would say suspicion. I felt that being girl was better for me. But all in all it turned out that wasn't even a question. World is as it is. You are women, you will never be man, you will always pretend.

Now for the rest of your life you can be fake man, a sort of abomination, or real, strong women, a very valuable and highly admirable human being.

I would love to speak to you, if you have time and listen about why you think you should be men, it fascinates me.

>>17357481
Still, that anon has a point.
Please elaborate why having a cunt and breast is your problem (dont go into some circular logic "cause I'm a man in mah brain" we get it)
Offcourse you can and will do whatever you want with your body, the thing is : is really the best scenario for you?

>>17357481
Now we see, your home situation is warped and unnatural (in a social-norm kind of way). It might be source of your problem.

I would like to ask you question, are you lesbian?

>My problem with gender is having a cunt and breasts
Well, you won't do that much with it, you can warp and change your body with hormones but it will be unnatural thing to do, you won't change the fact that you are women, you will be just fake man. You would do yourself much more good by coming to terms with reality, than mutilate your body to adhere to your strange vision of yourself.

>>17357481
I have bad news for you. You are not going to be regarded and treated on genuine equal grounds by other men, just by warping your body.
This is not some hippie metaphysical shit, if you change yourself... the world doesnt change with you
Its ALWAYS the same thing.

>>17357487
Put that fucking feminist hat away, you know that's not really true.

You really think men react to men and women *exactly the same*? That you don't subconsciously treat every attractive female as a potential sexthing and every unattractive one as a waste of space for not being an attractive sexthing?

Would you punch a woman just as hard in any and every context where you would punch a man? Put her to the same physical work, and consider her equally capable to the same input?

Biology split humans into babymakers and work drones, and no amount of liberal slobber will change this.

>>17357494
In any choice you will give me, in any context, I'm going to pick fake man over real woman 9 times out of 10, the 10th being the choice between being female and suicide.

I believe being raised to think that something you are and are incapable of choosing NOT to be is harmful to one's sense of self-worth. If I went and got myself fucked by a black guy, had a mixed kid in the whitest village in the whitest country in the world, and constantly made remarks of how gross and useless mongrels are, I'm sure the kid would have issues, no matter how well I treated him/her otherwise.

I have had my doubts. I once spent four years denying and repressing trans feelings, wasting a fortune on girl clothes that I hated wearing, putting on every female role and hat that I could find, and only ever found peace once I cut my hair and went back to male clothes.

I'm not talking with confidence of a psychotic weeaboo, this is the confidence of someone who's dealed with this matter for eight fucking years, with and without psychiatric support.

>>17357549
Oh boy, I'm really here to help. I might be harsh with it (I'm sure you endured, a lot of harsness) but I am honest and try to be kind. Let me answer.

>the choice between being female and suicide

See... you talking about suicide is precisly crazy talk. Noone on their right mind should think about suicide (spoken by the person who thought about it from year 6 and made attempt on ones life, but that's my story, not the point).

>I believe being raised to think that something you are and are incapable of choosing NOT to be is harmful to one's sense of self-worth. If I went and got myself fucked by a black guy, had a mixed kid in the whitest village in the whitest country in the world, and constantly made remarks of how gross and useless mongrels are, I'm sure the kid would have issues, no matter how well I treated him/her otherwise.

Once again, straight to the point, but you are arguing against yourself here. You are this "mongrel" that desperatly wants to be white, you will never be. No matter how hard you will try, you might try to bleach your skin and get cancer from it, you might try desperately to "fit in" only to be odd one around. Or you may learn to be at peace with who you are and live your life in highest possible peace and happyness (noone is fully peacfull or happy).

>I have had my doubts. I once spent four years denying and repressing trans feelings, wasting a fortune on girl clothes that I hated wearing, putting on every female role and hat that I could find, and only ever found peace once I cut my hair and went back to male clothes.

Yea, once again. You put too much weight on "female clothing", "female role". You don't have to do that. You are becoming one of the people you hate for pigenholeing your gender. You put too much meaning on roles and gender, you became part of the problem. Our chender roles are fucked up and you live them too much. You like mens roles? No problem, take them, live to them. You like short hair and male clothes..

>>17357571
no problem.

Sure, you are very perturabled right now. Sure you won't be peaceful in a long time. But findings shows that transisting rarely help. It's much worse choice than geting things in your head in the right order.

>I'm not talking with confidence of a psychotic weeaboo, this is the confidence of someone who's dealed with this matter for eight fucking years, with and without psychiatric support.

That still might be psychotic weeaboo...

Really, you need to get some things straight, I understand you are suffering. Your pain is very real. But what are you trying to do is not the answer. It steems from the problems, it's symptom. Be stronger than it.

>>17357502
I don't have an answer for you. I've disliked having breasts for as long as I've had them. I've never enjoyed having them or felt proud of being large-breasted, any remarks or compliments about my body or appearance feel like air. But being a small-breasted woman would only be more stupid and pointless, since they only exist in favour of men, and less potent ones for an equal amount of loathing is less for my money's worth.

I've never been able to enjoy sex or masturbation, and this has frustrated me to tears to the point where I need to resort to self-harm to calm myself down. I have never been sexually abused or left alone with anyone untrustworthy.

>>17357505
I'm not attracted to women in any fathomable way, no matter how hard I wish and how much I try.

You seem to think I am working under the delusion that I will ever Become A Real Boy.

Picture it more like this:

You were born in Shitfuckingstan where everything is always shit. Then the conflict eventually spills where you are and having everyone's heads chopped off at streetcorners when you're trying to go to the grocery store to find that the food shortage is still going, and everything just altogether stops being tolerable in any particular way.

You bribe your way into being smuggled into Not-Shitfuckingstan, the nearest country where it's tolerable to live. You go through a crazy fucking amount of labour, paperwork, legal trouble and the fear of being deported, until you finally gain citizenship.

Will you ever be a real, natural-born citizen of Not-Shitfuckingstan?

Fuck no.

Will the natives hate you?

Fuck yes.

Are you better off there than where you were born?

Also fuck yes.

>>17357571
You seem to understand the point of the race analogy while completely misunderstanding the race analogy.

But let's do it your way.

Let's say that I just remain female and live the way that makes me happy.

Keeping my hair short because I like it short.

Wearing men's clothes because I like wearing them.

Having my breasts surgically removed because I dislike having them and I find wearing a binder uncomfortable.

Working out and taking male hormones because it soothes my anxiety and I like the way it looks.

Not correcting people who mistake me for male because I like it when people do that.

Having my legal ID changed to "male" because I dislike having bouncers and border patrol not believing the F in my papers, and I dislike having my identity questioned.

I can do all these things and just be a strong, independent woman, right?

>>17357581
that country metaphore is stupid, sorry very much, it's just pants on head retarded. It shows how deluded you are.

Your gender is not some fucking hell. Half the people on this planet live with it and don't have fucking problem with it, so stop treating your gender like it's fucking warzone! I understand you have real problems but you got yourself fixated on the wrong thing. Your gender is totally fine as it is.

You won't get into not shitfuckedstand either. Because it doesn't fucking exist. You have some fantasy delusion that boys have it better, or that you will be better as a boy. It's not that, for fucking fuck.

It's geting ridiculous.

>>17357600
Oh boy. Now I see, you are more fucked in the head that I thought you were. All the things that you do to look like men, keeping your hair short, wearing mens clothes. It's not even that this is your style. No. You are just humoring yourself. You are big baby that has problems, that she can't cope with and instead of trying to solve them, just try to make herself happy inside, because she likes to play pretend and she deluded herself into thinking that she WOULD be happy by being a man. That's what you do, you are fucking princess playing pretend game of "being a man".

Fine do it. And in 10 years, when you will on the verge of suicide, don't blame society that didn't accept you, don't blame parents that didn't support you enough and don't blame pure chance, that made you born with different gender, blame your fucking unrealistic, retarded, crazy, delusional point of view and look on the world.

>>17357605
Can you prove that?

I dislike my breasts, I hate the mere concept of having breasts. Many times in my life I've fantasised about having my breasts so seriously maimed, damaged or infected that they would need to be cut off.

Not a day goes by that I do not wish to have my breasts removed.

What would you have me do?

>>17357620
I never intend to blame anyone.

And now that we've established that unstoppable force has indeed met with the immovable object, can we focus on the problem at hand?

>>17357621
>I dislike my breasts, I hate the mere concept of having breasts. Many times in my life I've fantasised about having my breasts so seriously maimed, damaged or infected that they would need to be cut off.
>Not a day goes by that I do not wish to have my breasts removed.

Now from my personal expierience, from year 6 to year 25 I was highly suicidal, not a day gone by that I havent fantasized about geting shot, fall from the high building, geting stabbed, geting something fallen on me. I thought about it every day, many times over. It was so ingraned into my being I felt it was part of myself. Maybe I was just born wrong? Maybe in my heart, in my brain I was stillborn? Maybe I should be born dead? No that's fucking retarded and I was mentally ill, not even physical I was just abused and needed to open this doors in my psyche. Am I happy now? Not fucking merry happy, but I feel amazing in comprasion.

I would have you to deal with the problems in your head, not the imaginary problem with your body.

>>17357628
>And now that we've established that unstoppable force has indeed met with the immovable object, can we focus on the problem at hand?

>How does one gain confidence in an insecurity that is not universally aknowledged or given support?

So, how do you gain confidence in mental illness? You don't you treat it and hopefully get over it.

>>17357660
Oh, I AM in treatment for it. I'm talking to a psychologist and three professionals whose expertise are incidents like mine. They all agree on my desicion to transition eventually, even if not this week.

There has not been found any real drug or treatment that helped dender identity disorder better than being allowed to transition.

If you have one, why are you not a millionaire by now?

>>17357668
Oh I was to psychiatrists myself. And you know something, you should recognize yourself much earlier? They don't know shit. All they have is some stupid theories that doesn't agree with each other in most cases and deal in symptoms. I've been to few and I had my deal of antidepressants in system. Drugs aren't the anwers, they are just that, narcotics to make you feel better. Your problem is more fundamental.

And as a doctor now (this year, yupiii...) I cant tell you that becoming "psychiatrist" doesn't actually magically means that you have any deeper understanding about human psyche than anyone else, it just means you read many books and aced some tests, put right diagnosis that might be bullshit anyway (it is just what is agreed on) and then you are just human mechanic, except humans are much more complicated than cars.

They fucking deal in symptoms and saying magic words of psychiatrists don't make me belive in bullshit anymore than I do. I studied under many psychiatrist and sad thing is, they probably laugh about your problem when you are not around.

>>17357694
Okay, so psychiatrists, who have studied this shit for like 20 years don't really know my shit, I myself who has lived with this shit for 20 years don't really know my shit, but you - and you alone - who have talked to me for maybe two hours, have all this certainity that you know what's truly ~*the best for me*~?

What was that again about certainity and insanity?

>>17357707
>psychiatrists, who have studied this shit for like 20 years don't really know my shit
You know that guy who invented lobotomy got a nobel out of it? You can't even imagine the amount of fucked up, stupid just bookish and even amoral people that was studying alongside me. We really don't know shit about deeps of human soul, hell we are not even sure if shizoprenia is one ilness or many illnesses with similar symptoms.

And about that certainity, if white man born white told me he identives as a african man and wanted his sking replaced with the skin of african man I would be certain he would be bat shit insane. Hell, he might feel happy listening to rap music and talking in stereotypical way, but I would be sure that not being a black man was not the source of his problems.

And to be honest you want us to help you feel confident in your delusions. I would feel like a terrible person doing that.

>>17357738
Can you tell me why, exactly, do you think that my "delusion" is so destructive? You downright compared it to death.

The surgeries themselves will be performed by the same kind of trained professionals who will fix you when you finally pop a vein in your skull. The hormones are the same that go through your body, my natural life span won't be any shorter than yours.

Is it the loss of fertility that worries you? That my womb won't carry fruit like God intended? Are you anxious that I set an example that your children might one day follow, doing what they want with their lives and bodies, instead of what you want?

If someone truly felt an equal distress to mine about their ethnicity, and there were ways to treat it which are as safe and reasonable as the ones to treat mine, I truly see no reason why he should be stopped.

What is it about my existence that is so abhorrent to you that you are forced to take up the pretense of being concerned for my well-being in order to erase it?

>>17357769
>What is it about my existence that is so abhorrent to you that you are forced to take up the pretense of being concerned for my well-being in order to erase it?

Nothing. What is so abhorrent in being woman that you are forced to mutilate your body with knives and hormones?

>>17357787
I value making myself happy over making you happy?

>>17357769
>Are you anxious that I set an example that your children might one day follow, doing what they want with their lives and bodies, instead of what you want?
And in the matter of fact this. I would love my kids to be able to come in terms with reality as it is. And to be mature people that can deal with the "grim" unchangeability of certain things in life. If my nephew would tell me that he want to be car like Lighting Mcqueen (he absolutely adores him) I would gently persuade him, it is not possibly and not happily start planing with him surgery to replace his limbs with tires.

>>17357792
>I value making myself happy over making you happy?
Not answer to my question. What is so abhorrent in being woman that you are forced to mutilate your body with knives and hormones? Answer my question, please. Why being women is so terrible to you?

>>17357811
Because I dislike the sensation of having breasts, having a high-pitched voice, round face and feminine body. These sensations are negative and fill me with disgust. The thoughts of not having breasts, having a lower voice, starker face and narrower, more muscled body fill me with joy.

Do you have an alternative solution to these problems, or do your suggestions really consist of nothing more than "I want you to suffer needlessly because the adjustments required to ease your distress make me uncomfortable"?

>>17357827
>Because I dislike the sensation of having breasts, having a high-pitched voice, round face and feminine body. These sensations are negative and fill me with disgust. The thoughts of not having breasts, having a lower voice, starker face and narrower, more muscled body fill me with joy.
Why do you feel that way. This is the way to find the real reason. Why you hate your own body? Why this sensations are negative and fill you with disgust.

>"I want you to suffer needlessly because the adjustments required to ease your distress make me uncomfortable"
Huh? Where do that came from? Trust me, you need to do much more than that to make me uncomfortable. I just try to help you. And frankly don't belive, that patting you on the head saying that you are right in your feelings and sugarcoating your delusion is right way to go. I've been there albeit from different reason (I hope, for your sake) and with different symptoms. I had anorexia, I felt sick being touched by other people. I once got into fight because someone kept touching me in the shoulder in friendly-bantery way. And treating this things, was treating symptoms. Underlying problem was still there and would be still there if I wasn't massively lucky and certain things didn't happen to illuminate it before my eyes. I just feel sad because if not for me being so "lucky" as to answers "falling" on my lap I would be as misgueided as you. Still taking pills and not knowing why I hate myself so much that I bought gun just to be able to end with myself, second I feel it's enough.

How do I get over my humongous hook nose. Started working out and got my braces off but my nose brings me down

>>17357860
Look, I don't know why you want to exhaust yourself fighting strangers who are mentally better off than you are, but I can confidently say that I am not qualified to help you.

I hope you find something to make life worth living. I know I have.

Goodnight, kitten.

>>17357863
Maybe it's because it is pointing downwards? Huh. You get it, because it's hooked down... oh come on, that wasn't such a bad pun. Well cosmetic surgery is an option. (Before someone points that cosmetic surgery = gender change, it's not)

>>17357863
If you really hate it that much and have the financial means, we have already established that reconstructive surgery is an option.

Life is short and Hell isn't real. Accept what you can't change and change what you can't accept.

>>17357873
Haha. I found my way, I am happy now and at peace. No longer suicidal. You are the one fighting with your family, and you are one coming into anonymous board to seek advice. Get over yourself.

>>17357879
You bought a weapon for suicide.

seeking support when one needs it is a constructive action towards ending the cycle of self-loathing.

Whatever the fuck that you're doing right now, that's really not my business but good luck.

>>17357877
>>17357878
Sick I'll just find bitches with fucked up noses as well no? Ty gg

>>17357890
I bought a gun a long time ago when I was lost and without hope, runing circles with psychiatrist, going through antidepresants and so on. I'm not in that place anymore and I managed to get out without pills and "help" from this misguided specialists.

My problem with our conversation is, every time someone want to know why you hate being women you just say "I just hate it" and if someone tries go get deeper and ask you "why you hate it?" you just say "I just hate it". It is sort of complex thing to hate and very big part of yourself to hate. It's not like hating eating brussels. It's much bigger. Why do you hate being women? I belive that is the question to ask. Why it is so negative to you? If you will be able to answer that I belive it's a path to being happy with yourself.

>>17357904
You are demanding me to answer a question I can't answer. There is no reason for my dislike on a mental level. Perhaps my mother's PCOS kicked up when she was expecting me and I got a testosterone dose a little too high. There is no clear, distinct, real reason.

I can't even fathom what KIND of an answer you want. That I was raped as a kid and try to flee my body to suppress the memory? Because the boys' footie pyjamas were a nicer colour at the daycare? Because I read too much gay porn? Because I need to take my crippled father's place in the army and save China?

Why are you attracted to women? Why not men? Why are you not gay?

>>17357931
I know that answering this question is hard, it is challenge, it might be greatest challenge in your life yet. But I belive it is real way for you to become happy and peaceful.

>That I was raped as a kid and try to flee my body to suppress the memory?
That would be answer, now is it?

>I need to take my crippled father's place in the army and save China?
Well, I guess you are not Mulan but you already established that your family is a little warped in a whole gender role department
>My family is FULL of self-assured, independent strong butch women, hence the whole "men are useless"-thing. I helped my mom build a house for crying out loud. I was raised with the polar opposite of standard gender stereotypes

>My mom and sister keep making negative remarks about virtually anything related to men, masculinity or aspects of manhood

>y dad was not only deeply against anything stereotypically manly (esp. sports and the military), but somewhat of an emotionally absent drunk

Much hate, maybe you are trying to dispell that? Maybe you don't ever want to be with men because you don't want to find your father and instead of that you want to be a better man than your father was? It happens a lot with boys, why not strong girl? Maybe you feel that what happened to you, happened because you were daughter. Maybe your father inculcated in you his bullshit excuse (that if only he had son, everything would be better). Maybe you feel insecure as a woman, since all the man are worthless and stupid and as a woman you are expected to interact with the worthless stupid men which brings you much suffering so instead you want to interact on them in a level playground without any sexual/relationship connotations that would traditionally make you subservient?

>Because the boys' footie pyjamas were a nicer colour at the daycare? Because I read too much gay porn?
Too trivial.

>>17357931
>Perhaps my mother's PCOS kicked up when she was expecting me and I got a testosterone dose a little too high.
It's funny because it is so easy, bullshit excuse for psychiatrist. Sure it's just imbalance in brain! We will just treat it with inducing more serotonin because you have far too little (little level of serotonin steems from my problem you jackass, you just allevate symptoms).

It might be possible but it is highly unlikely.

>Why are you attracted to women? Why not men? Why are you not gay?

Why do you assume, I am man? And to answer your question. I am straight because billion years of evolution ingrained that thing in the schematics of my build so from stricly evolutionary sense of speaking I would continue my gene line. And from my first post you should be able to see, that I have nothing against gay people. I belive they are perturabed themselves. But, hey, who of us is not? And if that makes them happy? One of the most happy relationship I know is gay! Really nice guys. Ha ha, Pun!

BTW, do you listen to Steam Powered Giraffe, kind of unrelated but one of them transistioned.

>>17357974
Problems at home happened because dad was an autistic alcoholic from a bad home and mom somehow thought it would be a good thing to breed with that. Mom wanted a third kid after me and my sister had been born, but dad refused. My father never expressed any kind of desire for a son.

My sister, who is 1,5 years older than me and raised in the exact same environment by the same parents, has no issues of any kind with being a straight cis woman.

Whatever you are looking for, you will not find it. I have no traumas of sex or gender.

>>17358000
>My sister, who is 1,5 years older than me and raised in the exact same environment by the same parents, has no issues of any kind with being a straight cis woman.

Well, I wouldnt put too much weight on that. Siblings can be much different and what is worse they lie about their problems too. My brother lied for most of my life, it's only when I managed to deal with my problems and told him about it, he broke up crying to me, that he lived through the same hell.

>Whatever you are looking for, you will not find it. I have no traumas of sex or gender.

On the contrary, we already found plenty of that! You don't even see how fucked up your situation was because it is so near, that it feels like it is only one possible. I would bet that it is something with your father, but it migh be something else entirely.

>>17357997
It's strange how cishets always go to that. "I am who I am because that is what nature intended. I require no explanation to be like I am, and with this god-given right I demand you explain me why you are not how I am."

I'm sorry to break it to you, but that's not how it works. I am a deviation, statistically, and you've met much more people who are like you than I've met people who are like me, but the sad truth is, I can't answer why any more than you can.

>>17358000
Tell me more, about your parents relationship. Are they still together? What are they doing for work? Who earn more, who is main caretaker. What is your relationship with mother and what is your relationship with father? What is most fucked up thing that you can remember with them.

Fucking captchas

>>17358009
You're seriously not going to tell me I'm transgender because dad had asperger's and mom knows how to use a cordless drill.

>>17358011
Still again. There is no grand nature, that you try to involve here. It's all souless fucking life eating each other and genes trying desperately to be replicated, exacly how it was for 4 billion years. There is no objective wrong or right. There is no objectivity even. We are just carbon based compounds that learned how to replicate themselves. And from that arouse sentience which might be just step, mistep or total surprise. I don't know. But there is way it was for millions of years, and it was this way for purpose, and that way is fundamental. And only on top of that is our sentience self which is suffering.

Your genetical line has about 4 billion years, from first bacteria to you. And it fought desperately to brought you here. And it is freaking amazing mechanism to try to produce more of itself into future. It is much more likely that your problem are psychological than physical. And you shouldnt deal psychological problems with altering your physical self.

As I see it you are troubled, very much troubled. I want to help.

>>17358018
In one hand, it might be that. You just put yourself in this vicious cyckle of self hatred for your whole life. Our minds are curious things. Maybe it is not that, but I don't find that thing too ridiculous. Our parent welcome us in this world. What is even more funny, we don't even remember our most important years (0-3) we build almost all our world view upon.

>>17358016
>Tell me more, about your parents relationship.
When I've asked mom about why they got married, she explained she wouldn't get proper student benefits (being 21 at the time) because of grandpa's income, unless she was married. That, and grandpa disapproved of her living with a boy "as a concubine".

>Are they still together?
They divorced peacefully because of dad's drinking when I was 14. Dad died beacefully because of his drinking when I was 17.

>What are they doing for work?
Mom is a sales agent, dad did some kind of IT stuff.

>Who earn more, who is main caretaker.
Don't know, and mom I guess.

>What is your relationship with mother and what is your relationship with father?
I'm temporarily living with her between schoolplaces (graduated useless art school last winter, trying to get into sensible vocational school now), and we go leave a candle on his grave on christmas.

>What is most fucked up thing that you can remember with them
dad fell down a flight of stairs head first because he was drunk, once. He left a stain of blood on the wall where he eventually landed, got up and insisted to mom that he was fine. She asked if he's ok enough to drive himself to a hospital, I don't remember how it ended.

I should note that despite of me seeking into trans treatments at 14, this action and the plans building up to it do predate dad being gently herded out of the house.

>>17358043
If there is no grand plan, why the fuck is it so important to you that I won't do what makes me happy?

I don't care if the real reason I identify myself as male is because I accidentally saw a porn flick as a toddler. If you ask virtually any real trans people at all, you'll find that they are happy about transitioning and do not regret it. Why are you so convinced that I will not be one of them?

>>17358043
>We are just carbon based compounds that learned how to replicate themselves. And from that arouse sentience which might be just step, mistep or total surprise. I don't know. But there is way it was for millions of years, and it was this way for purpose, and that way is fundamental. And only on top of that is our sentience self which is suffering.
To ponder about this point a little more.

There is a reason we are build like it. It's simple reason. Genes must be replicated. What is scary is that our emotions are tailored for that purpose. For genes to be replicated. "Shame" it got so complicated upon the way. It is so many ways, it is so complicated, when you have group pressure, sibling genetic drift, family fitness and intelligence. And on top of that we made a GIGANTIC leap in social life in a time that is less that a blink in evolutionary sense, sure thing everything is geting haywire. And our most precious, greatest prize, our intelligence just sometimes is too overwhelmed by conflicting sygnals! Why? Because we should be given clear signals by our parents. That's how "nature intended". Our parents are the ones that should provide to us clear vision of reality, it's their genetic responsibility. It is worst crime, when they fuck with their children minds. It's not only wrong because they scar the child. It's horrible, because they child has no way of knowing of right and wrong, it is oftentimes not aware it was done wrong. It is instinctivly programed to trust in their parents 100% so when their parents fuck up (deliberately or not) their child is really fucked up.

I am on the standing that most of emotional and psychological problems stems from childhood.

>>17358062
Both my maternal and paternal grandmothers had 14-15 siblings. Virtually all of them had children and grandchildren. My genes are not rare.

There are seven billion people on this planet.

I have literally no reason of any kind to go through the suffering to produce a spawn that I will dislike and resent anyway.

I understand your point that every healthy life form is a forcibly spreading stupid animal and therefore every healthy human being should be just that, but I literally do not want to, and see no reason whyI should.

I am an adult human being capable of making rational, conscious choices. You cannot insist that it is not true because you disagree with the choices I'm making.

>>17358055
>If there is no grand plan, why the fuck is it so important to you that I won't do what makes me happy?
Well, maybe because I really belive that isn't what will make you happy.

> If you ask virtually any real trans people at all, you'll find that they are happy about transitioning and do not regret it. Why are you so convinced that I will not be one of them?

That is bullshit and you know that, there is a lot of reason why people say that they are fine. And ironically people that always say they are fine are the ones most troubled.I know my problems were big surprises to everyone I knew. There is also sunken cost fallacy or the fact that they are conditioning themselves to be happy but the fact is they are doing what they could do before, just now they have mutilated body. I don't know much trans people. But I know some people that are or were in abusive relationships. And when you hear for the fifth time from your friend who is abused and hit in relationship the answer of why they still are with the jerk and the answer is "she is happy" you are starting to doubt this bullshit.

>>17358045
>I should note that despite of me seeking into trans treatments at 14, this action and the plans building up to it do predate dad being gently herded out of the house.

Ofcourse, it most likely wasn't one incident, it was building inside you. Growing up like a fire of hatred, like a buzzing decaying corpse.

That's very cheap reason to get marries and your father was really fucked up. You probably resent him deeply but don't let yourself hate him even in private because you are too good of a person. Instead you somehow aim this hatred inside. Or maybe completly different way. You are sympathetic to your father like a female doctor feeling love and need to care for the hurt (you saw his drunkeness as a symptom of being hurt) and you queietly hate your mother and other people for not caring for him more?

Read up about psychoanalisis and transference.

>>17358083
You miss my point. Your feeling are tailored for you to spread your genes. I couldn't care less about if you procreate or not. It's just that, even if you are very mature person your feeling and instincts are still that of a animal that is trying to surivie and procreate.

Now as a intelligent beasts we addapt to survive. And this adaptation mechanism is in my view precisly the same mechanism that fucked up my life and your life too. You adapted to fucked up situation that wouldnt arise in "nature" in the system that your feelings and mechanismes evolved. And you try to cope desperately but you fail. And when you transistion you will see that there is more to cope with and you will always just feel "only about right" never at peace and happy.

My goal would be for you to be fully happy and peaceful and I don't see that in you trying to change your body. You need to overcome your deep problems and be master of your own primal urges and mechanism. Don't ever reproduce, I don't care. I want you to be full happy not chasing unrealistic dream and vision of yourself.

>>17358098
I relate to my father, I'm mildly autistic and similarly depressed, and find relief in alcohol. None of what I have is as severe as his, just like I'm not a STEM genius the same way, but I have a grasp of how he must have felt. I didn't really cry or mourn when he died, he was always just an awkward ghost who hung around our house and then he did not.

My mother has been one of the best moms I've known. She does sometimes say the wrong thing, especially when me or my sister try to seek comfort from her for anxiety or depression (I have given that up, she has not).

I don't feel like you want me to think I feel. Maybe you are the one who should look up projection.

>>17358117
And in my view, in my "phylosophy" of life. Being happy is something you achieve when you master your own inner world. When you are master of your desires, of your feelings and fears (oh, boy do I have many of those). You need to control yourself. You need to tame the rabid animal in yourself that is now like a werewolf killing you from inside. This werewolf wants to be man, because it got misguided in life and belives that being man is better. But it is not option really. You need to be stronger that the beast, you need to fight to become your own captain, master of your fate. (Damn, I love Henley!)

Your problem is one of genders but changing your genger is not solution. I belive it lays somewhere in your parents relationship.

>>17358117
Why is transitioning such an unrealistic dream?

Have you ever seen trans men? Just pictures, maybe? They just look like ordinary men.

I completely support your right to do whatever you want to your body OP. But you are going to need to get thick skin if you wanna go through with this. Society is not kind

>>17358134
My parents were awkward weird fucks who got married and had kids because they felt that that's what normal people do.

I don't care about your personal philosophies. If transitioning is wrong, I genuinely, deep down, with all my heart, do not want to be right. If it kills me, that is how I want to die.

You can believe that nobody is born wrong or evil. Believe it all you want, but consider me an exception.

>>17358125
>I don't feel like you want me to think I feel. Maybe you are the one who should look up projection.
For sure I've fallen for that trap many times. But still I don't think gende dysphoria was really my thing. I just belive we are similar things and if I would guess how you feel, I would say numb. Everything is dialed down. Dark, uninteresting, iritating.

>I didn't really cry or mourn when he died
Now, you never had proper catharsis

>he was always just an awkward ghost who hung around our house and then he did not
The sad thing is, its not even about "how he was" but about "how he should be". I belive we have wired up need in our minds of healthy parental relationship. It's something "natural" genetic. If we don't find it, lack of it, can be like a void, black hole.

>>17358141
Nah, this is pretty run-of-the mill. To be honest I don't know what I expected.

I still don't know where to get genuine male support, though. Do men even support each other, anyway? Or will they just kill and eat the weak ones?

>>17358149
I never said you'd have gender identity issues. I'm saying you're talking out of your ass.

I'm sorry I didn't have a big burly man and submissive docile woman at home to make me normal.

>>17358135
You will always be fake. You won't live life of a man, you will live life of a fake-man. Because no man asked for it. Being man is about dealing with what you got and being strong about it, not geting everything you want. That is more of a women way in our society.

>>17358146
>My parents were awkward weird fucks who got married and had kids because they felt that that's what normal people do.
Yea, that's fucked up.

Ok, Sugarcubes I go to sleep! Have fun, being man.

>>17358164
Goodnight.

Have fun telling someone else how to live their lives.

>>17358155
>Or will they just kill and eat the weak ones?
Mostly this. And if you transition be prepared to be called faggot often.

>>17358159
>I'm sorry I didn't have a big burly man and submissive docile woman at home to make me normal.
Well, now you have yourself to make you happy. You can either let your issues work on yourself or work on your issues.

>>17358169
>Have fun telling someone else how to live their lives.
Still, you are the one that asked for advice. And was conversating with me this whole time. It's not like I could make stranger listen to me through the internet, right?

Ok, now really need to get to sleep. Fuck this last word bullshit. Haha.

>>17358175
My issue is not being a man. From a clinical point of view, it'd be quite easy to fix.

Very interesting conversation. Kind anon who provided advice and insight; what was the release you needed; to get better at-around age 25. Im curious because today is my 25th birthday; and for the first time in my life have i actually taken no effort to celebrate it. Life has been somewhat of a tough teacher the past few years, but your words and interaction here feel strangely familiar. As if 2 parts of my brain are talking. I used to always be very patient and loving with myself; and a very happy person. Some stuff went down however, and i am now a lot less tolerant, angry and hateful; leading to depression. not trying to transfer or w/e just curious!