If people want you to change does this mean they don't love

What? If any, they love you if they bother.

>>17302248
I am stupidly picky and i always imagine people would no doubt prefer someone else and they put up with me because they have no choice. Can't handle criticism well, as a result.
Retarded, it goes further. If a person can get rid of me, i always suppose he/she is looking forward to it.
I can't appreciate love, what is wrong
Why am i such a pussy

>>17302258
Then figure out if you're really a pain in the ass. You're either an insufferable prick or have low self-esteem. I'm betting for the later.

>>17302269
My self-esteem is very weak, i used to be narcissistic, hated everyone and avoided the problem, but now i feel guilty for being such an ass my whole life hurting people.
Sometimes I think I should've stayed narcissistic.
Every single shortcoming is super effective to my self-esteem, i feel numb or cry every time.

>>17302258
Man up, and take responsibility for your actions.

>>17302238
>If people want you to change does this mean they don't love you?
No. Sometimes they see that you are on a self-destructive pathway, and have enough experience to tell it with enough confidence even with the best intentions. Trying to change someone isn't purely selfish manipulation.

From your posts below I suspect you are on a path like this, so you should consider taking the advice of those people seriously.
What is it that they want to change about you?

>>17302283
How do you do it?
Be like "it's my fault i deserve a punishment you gave me" or "i did this mess and i'll fix it myself"?
Really how?

>>17302325
My parents managed to fix my narcissistic autism tendencies, where i give zero fucks about everyone, was daydreaming hard 24/7 and was deathly afraid to screw up social interactions.
They did it with talks and criticism, i appreciate it, but when they go like "to be a proper lady you have to walk properly, be flirtatious...", i feel sad they are not satisfied.
i already did a pretty good character development job, i am a lazy fuck, but i already know that.
Otherwise they are extremely supportive, so i'm just bitching
Other people either don't care or want me to be something i totally can't. They are immature or mental case, idk.
I am trying to learn to accept and appreciate others, so i could be accepted too, i guess it'll take more time.

>>17302238
>If people want you to change does this mean they don't love you?
It can, but it can also mean the exact opposite. Life, and emotion, are too complicated for a clean answer to this question.

The closest thing I can give you to a rule of thumb is this. People who don't love you want you to change because it will make them happier. People who love you want you to change because it will make YOU happier.

But even this isn't clean. Many people think (or at least tell themselves) both things at once, and this goes both ways. There are also people who think that the changes they want you to make will make you happier, but are honestly mistaken.

The bottom line is the same as the top: you can't judge a person's feelings for you by the degree to which they want you to change. Even very strong degrees of desire for change could mean love or hatred. There just isn't enough information.

>>17302382
That cleared things out pretty well, thanks, anon.

>>17302365
>"it's my fault i deserve a punishment you gave me"
No. Self hate has nothing to do with manning up. Know what you want from life, know where you're going, and stick to your plan.

Become good at something. Don't live for others' validation, do something useful, put something down on the table that makes you respectable. Develop confidence, self control, and self worth.

Always give people the benefit of the doubt, don't be picky, and if it doesn't work out, don't hesitate to honestly tell your criticisms. Don't be a people pleaser, be a valuable person. Then you will have self esteem, and you won't care about other's opinions. Don't run, solve the problems you face. The more you solve them, the more confident you will become.

Don't try to be perfect. Perfection is something only the weak pursue. Be a valuable asset to the people around you and be aware of your shortcomings, everyone has those. Know your limits, but always push them further. Become more and more valuable by practicing skills and being an honest critic of yourself.

Be greatful. If others show kindness towards you, be thankful and reciprocate it. Learn to love yourself in order to be able to love others and appreciate their love.

>>17302365
>i feel sad they are not satisfied
Don't! If you feel their criticism is useful and honest, try to take it seriously.

> i am a lazy fuck
Working on this is a good start, becuse every change starts with getting away from lazyness. If you do nothing, literally nothing will happen. Ever.

>so i'm just bitching
Honestly, I feel you do have a valid concern because people somethimes think they know what's better for you when they don't. Even with the best intentions. Everyone has to live thier own lives, and everyone is different somewhat but there are universal values that just work and we have to adapt to those.

> or want me to be something i totally can't
Usually these are the people who are selfish and want to change you only for themselves. What do these people want you to change?

>I am trying to learn to accept and appreciate others
This is something you need to change. Why can't you do this? Some bad experience?

>>17302389
Anon thanks, but honestly it's advice for doubtless people.
I have no idea where i am going, instant gratification looks like a right choice.
Maybe i feel guilty, because i secretly enjoy inventing interesting ways for hurting people emotionally. Finding their weak spots and watch at how they rage. 90% of time i suppress it though.
I feel like trash having bad intentions and hating people who have them.

I am relatively successful, any other person would have high self-esteem in my place. Have some skills etc.

Solving problems many times and not running are very helpful and applicable advice thank

>>17302404
>What do these people want you to change?
Actually everything, they have some idea on how i should act and guilt-trip me into this.
They are those peers who happen to never analyze everything and have a shitton of problems themselves. They never fix them, just whine and i don't know how could they know what's best for me.
Again, I tend to associate with immature delusional or idealistic people, because they ARE my kind, i can't understand fully pragmatic people at all.
Should i throw my so-called ideals in the trash bin?

>This is something you need to change. >Why can't you do this? Some bad experience?
If i can spend a day never meeting anyone i do that. Used to be selfish and socially awkward even texting in facebook makes me anxious. Never managed to build up courage to ask a friend to hang out. Low self-esteem.

>>17302454
No, not doubtless. Doubtless people know where they are going. You need to find out first, find your place. Instant gratification is adolescent behavior. You need to grow out of it because it's unsustainable. What interests you? Where do you think you could find your place in life?

A lot of people like hurting others. It's a sign of a low self esteem and insecurity. Improve on that with the advice I gave you in the previous post. If you are relatively succesful, you must have experience in not running away and facing problems. No one will be succesful if they run away. Apply your experience in other areas of your life. What are you succesful at?

>>17302454
>Actually everything, they have some idea on how i should act and guilt-trip me into this
These are shit people wanting to exploit you. Dump them and stay away from them. The best cure for guilt tripping girlfriends is calling them out on their bs and starving them of attention.

>Should i throw my so-called ideals in the trash bin?
Never. Those are what motivates us. Just realize that there is a balance between being pragmatic and throwing away every ideals and going into infeasible land and wasting time and energy. Fight for your ideals, take responsiblity, but also be critical of them and be pragmatic in the sense that you look for a feasible way to implement your ideals. Look for opportunities and if they arise, grab them.

>>17302476
Thanks, anon, i'll try that!
Isn't it bad i have very hard time understanding mostly pragmatic people, though? Or maybe it's their way of implementing their dreams, but how can they possibly be so decisive?

>>17302468
I guess i want to study better?
To sustain myself?
Honestly, the solipsism and hedonism ideas nullify the meaning of life for me, you can kill yourself while high and die very happy?
Maybe i should "just do work without doubting" because it's the most effective strategy so far.

I am not sure enough about my future to set longterm goals

>>17302509
>Isn't it bad i have very hard time understanding mostly pragmatic people, though?
You will when you become somewhat pragmatic yourself.

>but how can they possibly be so decisive?
Everyone starts as and idealist, then life happens. They get jaded or experienced and good at judging people. With experience you can get there too. If you never start, you will always be full of doubts and remain a double pussy for the rest of your life.

>>17302516
But life is flavourless, when you just do things to get other things done.
Maybe that's the reason video games are that popular.
I was exposed to media in childhood immensely and it might be like an emotional junk food or drug that numbed me to real life emotions.
Maybe art will be an outlet for my constant wanting of something more, i earn for something outstanding so much i make a fool out of myself.

>>17302509
Everything stems from not valuing and respecting yourself. You only want joy and validation at the moment. You define love as recieving joy and validation from others.

That's why you have doubts like in the OP and what you have written now. That's why you're picky and can't handle criticism. Deep inside you know what you're doing is wrong and unsustainable, but you want to avoid confrontation because you are afraid of being hurt. That's why you think people want to get rid of you. Deep inside you feel that you don't have the things going for you that you would normally need. Try to look at things in perspective. Are you even succesful in getting this joy and validation from others?

Most people who becomse mysogynistic self righteous assholes becomes that because they can't sustain the facade, and they are confronted with the emptiness that's inside them. If you want to escape that, you need to take steps.

>I guess i want to study better?
100% a question of self discipline. Don't allow yourself to get up from the book until you learnt it. Always ask yourself questions about the subject you are learning and categorize the information different ways. Once you can answer all your questions and see the knowledge in perspective, you know it.

>To sustain myself?
Comes from the first, seeking challanges, and being able to sell yourself. People like it if you are stable, reliable, and involved. Communicate that well towards them.

>you can kill yourself while high and die very happy?
...and leave a lot of people behind who are very unhappy for you leaving them and deprive yourself of and joys of life. Are you a junkie?

>just do work without doubting
That's a good strategy to start because it gets you to places. Once you see a bit more of the world, try to find your place in it, that makes you happy. If you are sheltered or just a hedonistic joy seeker, you won't find it, because all your world is your joy and you will be ignorant to anything outside that

>>17302533
>But life is flavourless, when you just do things to get other things done.
Who said you should do that?
As I said, fight for your ideals. Just do it in a feasible way. That's where pragmatism comes into the picture.
>i earn for something outstanding so much i make a fool out of myself.
That's just trying to validate yourself and putting it above others. Don't make a fool out of yourself, make something valuable, so people would respect you.

>>17302538
How to get the validation i want? I only get validation when i achieve something or when people say there is nothing wrong with me (very rarely and i don't believe).

>100% a question of self discipline.
Sad truth, yep. Gotta leave 4chan soon then.

>People like it if you are stable, reliable, and involved. Communicate that well towards them.
Can do that to people i am not friends with.
If i practice in front of the mirror i will eliminate all the stattering too.

>...and leave a lot of people behind who are very unhappy for you leaving them and deprive yourself of and joys of life. Are you a junkie?
No, i'm afraid to try it, because i'd probably act as i expect. But i won't be able to experience guilt or negative emotions anymore?

I have kind of ocd and like to ace things, do them right just for the sake of it. Organise, sort and gather information. Not sure if i have any motivation besides that.

>That's just trying to validate yourself and putting it above others.
How do you validate another way? Should i make handmade stuff and get praised for it or what? It never worked for me, i never thought my art deserves any attention. Crave the "above others" stuff too badly.

>>17302574
>How to get the validation i want?
By gaining people's respect and becoming valuable.
Crave becoming valuable. Don't try to be better than others, be good, really good, objectively.
Sorry, I have to go now, if you want any more advice from me, I can give you a contact.

>>17302590
Thanks, man, i'll handle it with your advice

>>17302238
>If people want you to change does this mean they don't love you?
No, it means you are too self centered, and for some reason you can't appreciate other's good intentions. People who love you will want to change you for the better.

>>17302598
Good luck then, just be open to the world.

>>17302617
What a load of bullshit. This sounds like your average controlling person, only interested in molding you to their whim.
You either like/love a person for who they are, or you find someone else to fit your criteria.

"Good intentions", hah. What a sick joke. It's nothing more than your typical "I have an issue with you, so you gotta change for me."

>>17302628
Yes, those are the people who doesn't love him. If they love him, they will want to change him because they know it will make him happy and more succesful.

>>17302238
Most of the time yes, but sometimes they are just do it out of care. If you want to judge witch, always think about the end result, and their life expreiences. If the change would only benefit them, they are selfish and don't love you. If it benefits you according to their worldview, it comes from caringness. Sometimes this care is misplaced though and they want to change you in the wrong way with good intentions, so watch out for that, but generalizing people around trying to change you and categorizing them as not loving you is a simplification.