Is it me, or are most older people (40+) not really "wise"

wisdom typically is a hard concept to grasp until you actually have it.

how old are you?

>>17079889
Well then please explain to me, oh wise one.

>>17079878
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.

There you go, kid.

Older people sometimes tend to be wiser. That's not at all a guarantee.

>>17079914
Or maybe it's perfectly fine to put tomatoes in a fruit salad even though it's not commonly done, mainly because people think tomatoes are vegetables. But maybe you should experiment and see if you like it first before following a stereotype. What you've given me doesn't sound like wisdom.

>>17079902

Having wisdom is about having better judgment; about people, actions, etc.

For example, a foolish man might date a woman because he wants her body; but someone less foolish would know that that kind of relationship will fade shortly.

Foolish people (young or old, though people TEND to get wiser with age) make tons of bad decisions, every day. Bad tattoos, bad choices in relationships, bad political choices, etc.

Foolish men think all women are wicked, or women are lucky, or all women are x/y/z, etc.

People don't get automatically wiser with age; some people are 60 yo and are as foolish as a 14 yo.

>>17079916
"Sometimes tend" doesn't mean anything.

>>17079928
>"Sometimes tend" doesn't mean anything.

Yes it does. Older people, on average are wiser.

Most people get wiser with age. It's incremental, but still wiser.
A few get a lot wiser.
Some people are stunted and never get wiser.

But it doesn't happen where people get LESS wise. You don't have a 20 yo get LESS wise when they are 40.

Wisdom comes from experience; it's processing actions that they did or saw, and then making a better choice based on that information.

>>17079902

Well, I'm sure wisdom means different things to certain people but I boil it down to empathy.

Being able to relate to someone's world view, or being able to understand that you can't relate to it. Avoiding fights (verbal or physical) with people because life is too short, understanding that you're personally as selfish as anyone else, realizing that life isn't fair and that's OK, working with what you got and not with what you don't.

You could call this a bunch of obvious shit, and normally any younger unwise person would say "I agree with all those things!! I must be wise ;)" but there's a difference between saying it and living it.

That's my view on wisdom.

>>17079928
I'm sorry. When I multitask I don't always edit sentences well.
I wrote "are sometimes wiser" then deleted and wrote "tend to be wiser" without paying attention to the entire sentence.
Saw it after I posted but I didn't think it would be that difficult to understand.

Wisdom isn't about age, but age is commonly associated with wisdom. It's just one of those things.

Just humor them and move on with your life.

>>17079941
>Older people, on average are wiser.

Where did you get that "statistic" from? You're using circular reason: older people are wiser because they're old.

>Wisdom comes from experience; it's processing actions that they did or saw, and then making a better choice based on that information.
There's no such thing as "better choice" because choices are subjective/personal, they're largely influenced by emotion, and there's random chance involved. Being old doesn't mean an abudance of correct choices.

>>17079968

Being old means an abundances of choices overall.

An older person typically has made a lot more good AND bad decisions than a younger person.

Wisdom normally comes from any kind of experience, dare I say especially from the negative ones.

Older people have lived longer, seen more shit, and have made more mistakes than younger people on average...and this is one way of gaining wisdom.

>>17079927
>a foolish man might date a woman because he wants her body; but someone less foolish would know that that kind of relationship will fade shortly.

And what if he wants a relationship that will fade slowly? Maybe he has a value system that's perfectly fine with that, and it's his life to live. Who are you to say that kind of thing is not wise? Maybe he's an accomplished man who enjoys having numerous relationships.
You're making up your own version of wisdom that's based on stereotypes.

>>17079968
>Where did you get that "statistic" from? You're using circular reason: older people are wiser because they're old.

That's not circular logic, it's just logic. Wisdom comes with age because there are more experiences with which to process. Small children learn that the stove was hot, frequently by touching it. They just got more wise. Experiences which cause pain, or those that cause pleasure, are processed in our brain. Over time, we learn to make better decisions based on this.

>>Wisdom comes from experience; it's processing actions that they did or saw, and then making a better choice based on that information.
>There's no such thing as "better choice" because choices are subjective/personal, they're largely influenced by emotion, and there's random chance involved. Being old doesn't mean an abudance of correct choices.

It's not necessarily true that older people are any wiser than when they were younger; but in general, it's true.

Yes there are better choices, idiot.
Scenario: got temporarily blinded by pepper spray.
Choice 1: Get in my car immediately even though I'm in pain and can't see
Choice 2: Wait out the pain and loss of vision; calling a friend for help, or 9/11 if serious.

You think those 2 choices are subjectively the same? They'll have an equivalent outcome?

You're a fucking moron, this is exactly what we're talking about. You can't process any of the shit we're saying because you're foolish.

>>17079985
>And what if he wants a relationship that will fade slowly? Maybe he has a value system that's perfectly fine with that, and it's his life to live. Who are you to say that kind of thing is not wise? Maybe he's an accomplished man who enjoys having numerous relationships.
>You're making up your own version of wisdom that's based on stereotypes.

See, you're a fool if you believe that. You don't have any conception of what love is; what good relationships or bad relationships are.

You don't understand what happiness is.

You're an idiot kid who uses words but there is no wisdom there. I don't know if you're stupid or not; but you're definitely foolish.

You're going to make a lot of bad decisions; processing those will make your life, and the life of those around you, better.

You don't know what the hell youre talking about. This is bait and I'm not biting.

>>17079975
>Wisdom normally comes from any kind of experience, dare I say especially from the negative ones.
>Older people have lived longer, seen more shit, and have made more mistakes than younger people on average...and this is one way of gaining wisdom.

Absolutely it comes from good and bad decisions. The more decisions, the more you know which ones lead to good and bad outcomes.

>>17079878
>Is it me, or are most older people (40+) not really "wise" like they're commonly thought of?
I'm two years shy of forty and I agree with this statement.

I remember being sixteen and knowing everything. Like, how you could live like a king if only you were fortunate enough to find a job that paid £12,000 a year, how anyone who bought a car that wasn't a ferrari or a porsche must be an idiot who just doesn't know that good cars exist, and that only someone who aspired to be a monk would live anywhere that wasn't a city centre appartment within walking distance of three nightclubs.

A couple of decades later on and I now spend most of my time thinking up different ways to tell my wife "we can't afford [whatever it is she wants this time] because I only make £70,000 a year" and trying to remember where I left my socks.

If you're 18 you have simply never said anything unique or interesting in your entire fucking life. All those super deep conversations you have with your friends are fucking retarded and would annoy the shit out of anyone older than you. You simply don't have the education, experience, or insight to add anything new or interesting to the world. No one fucking cares about your shit opinions and thoughts about relationships or life advice. No one fucking takes you seriously for the same reason no one takes Lorde seriously. You just don't know better.

There are extremely few young people that do have something to add but they are very very very very few and the odds are you are not one of them.

>>17079945
Where did you get the idea that older people have more empathy? None of those things can be credited to old people in general. But it's your opinion, I get it.

>>17079878
When you get older you will realize why that is. Teens generally rebel, just as you do

>>17080013
>Where did you get the idea that older people have more empathy? None of those things can be credited to old people in general. But it's your opinion, I get it.

I actually don't think age brings more empathy. Wisdom normally (but not always) affects THEIR OWN decisions, not being able to empathize with others.

Empathy is something that I haven't seen grow with time; if anything, it might shrink.

>>17080013

Well, I'm just speaking from experience so yours might be different.

I remember everyone in highschool used to be a little shit, me included...so there's that.

>>17079975
>>Wisdom normally comes from any kind of experience

Not really true. A fish in an aquarium that sits on the beach may have had a ton of experiences within that aquarium. It may never occur to him what lies beyond its worldview because it didn't have the chance or possibility to be out of it.

>>17080023

Empathy is just understanding, it doesn't necessarily mean you act upon it in a positive or negative way.

>>17080038
>Not really true. A fish in an aquarium that sits on the beach may have had a ton of experiences within that aquarium. It may never occur to him what lies beyond its worldview because it didn't have the chance or possibility to be out of it.

Fish can't learn. Humans can. Even other mammals can. Are you for real?

I think being wise has to do with the amount of experiences you have.

Sure being older means that you had more time to live these experiences but often, people like being in their comfort zone and view new experiences with fear not knowing that these "develop" you more than anything.

So here you are, now 50 years old, content,, but feeling like you missed out on something, you try to be happy like you were 30 years ago, but your energy, your youthfulness is lacking, you feel the burden of the world, so you either grow resentful of the it or accept a life of ignorant bliss.

Wisdom is like an immune system, once your body gets infected and you feel ill you then recover and your T cells memorize the threat and the cure. Wisdom is your mental T cell .

...my 2 cents

>>17080042
>Empathy is just understanding, it doesn't necessarily mean you act upon it in a positive or negative way.

I know. Wisdom is the same way, though generally if you think choice A will be better then choice B, humans will choose choice A.

But you might have an opinion about someone else (because you see similar traits in someone you knew from before) and not express it.

>>17080038

>Not really true. A fish in an aquarium that sits on the beach may have had a ton of experiences within that aquarium.

Staying inside an aquarium not learning anything from the outside world is the completely opposite of the word experience, you sound like a dense motherfucker to put it gently.

>>17079989

What you've described are simple pain/pleasure experiences that your brain automatically learns from due to instinct. Following your lymbic system desire for pleasure and your aversion of pain cannot possibly be described as wisdom. In fact, the human brain often sabotages you in the long run by the way its made to seek pleasure and avoid pain.
I think the actual wisdom is using the pain/pleasure principle in a directed, reasoned out way that will get you to where you want to be. That part is a little tricky.

>>17079989
>>17080001

Using insults as an argument is a way of showing you're feeling overwhelmed and doesn't really serve your point.

>>17080011
I am 25, and you sound like an angry, bigoted child throwing a tantrum. Did I hit a sensible chord with this thread? How many bad decisions have you made thus far?

>>17079878
Yeah. That's one of the secrets of the ages, anon: old age absolutely does not necessarily bring wisdom, and often breeds the opposite. You want wisdom? Talk to children.

>>17080051
>>17080069

Not understanding the concept of a metaphor. This is the type of people I'm arguing with.
What I meant is that humans can only learn within their limited framework or scope of vision. Yes, we learn from other humans but we can't learn from EVERYTHING that other humans have done, thus our learning is limited. And the way we process that learning is also limited by our genetics, upbringing, and other particularities. So wisdom isn't something that can be pinpointed or wholly determined.

It's relative. A person is wiser at age 40 than he or she was at age 20

>>17080130

I can see why that reply applies to the guy talking about fish and humans, but your post has literally nothing to do with mine.

Essentially I pointed that you agreed with my stance without even realizing it. Wisdom comes from experience, REAL experience, the kind that takes you out of your aquarium.

>I disagree with you because of this metaphor that actually proves your point

Hokay.

>>17080054
>I think being wise has to do with the amount of experiences you have.

But being old doesn't mean you've had a lot of different experiences. You might've heard that time passes faster as people age, right? That's because the brain gets more efficient, it "blends" things blend together and things get more routinized, and time seems to pass faster because there's not enough differences for the brain to notice.
Having a large amount of experiences is a characteristic of a certain type of person that is very open, not risk averse, confident, and so on. I think we can agree that's not necessarily a hallmark of being old.

>>17080187

Take someone who has lived on the planet for 20 years.

Now take someone who has lived on the planet for 60 years.

Which person will have more experiences statistically? The older person.

Are there 60 year old shut ins and 20 year old entrepreneur travels? Absolutely. But that's the exception, not the rule.

9 times out of 10, an older person will have experienced more stuff than a younger person, so assuming older people are more experienced as a base in not only a good guess, but correct most of the time.

Wow, we're really getting into /his/ territory here, and exploring the ambiguity of the definitional parameters of "wisdom." This is a worthwhile question. I would posit that wisdom is directly proportional to perspective. One's awareness of their limitations allows them to see how small their sphere of influence is, which allows them to focus on the things that are important in their life, which allows them to then see the patterns between their life and others', and thus be able to generalize the patterns present throughout the human experience, drawing conclusions which might be expressed conventionally as "wisdom." Thus, the fish analogy only works if the fish (as was implies) is made more aware of its position within the bowl through its experience therewith. This, of course, is unknowable in the literal sense, which is why it's a metaphor.

But wisdom will eventually tell you that *everything* is a metaphor, and that can be understood at any age.

>>17080130
The aquarium I talked about is your personal experience which is by default limited. You can't get outside this aquarium, you're just a fish. So your experiences are limited by what your personality allows you. That's why wisdom isn't caused by experience. I'm arguing that wisdom is a finicky, uncommon, chancy quality that is developed by having certain personalities and certain experiences and not by ageing itself.

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375KB, 845x1187px

>>17080187
>making up a bunch of bullshit about the brain backed by 0 neurobiology findings

ok

>>17080241
I'm not gonna research the exact science journals and post them here because I don't need your approval. I'm here to understand myself and be proven otherwise if need be, which you haven't by calling it bullshit and posting a neat painting.

>>17080235

You are missing the mark on what wisdom is.

You can't calculate wisdom like an IQ score dude. If a family member dies, you end up realizing how precious and fragile life can be, and it changes how you act in consequence.

It doesn't give you a +10 to your wisdom score, it makes you act a little differently (the actions themselves can be good or bad), and that itself is wisdom.

Knowledge is learning something new every day, wisdom is letting it go.

>>17080219
>Which person will have more experiences statistically? The older person.

Not more experiences. More succesive moments of life, yes. You can be old and stay your entire life in the same area/town, which most people do by the way. Does that person have more experience than a younger one who had extensively traveled? Not really, only in some ways that's specific to them.
One person might have a bunch of experience being mugged and as a result they are extra vigilant in public. Another who never had that experience may keep themselves safer just because they have a more paranoid personality.
Experiences are relative in quality, quantity doesn't matter.

>>17079878
Wisdom is more born of life experiences opposed to the length of life. I've met many wise 20-somethings and many more unwise 40+ individuals.

>>17080232
>generalize the patterns present throughout the human experience, drawing conclusions which might be expressed conventionally as "wisdom."

Of course, that's the learning part of gaining experience. Pattern generalizations are subjective, influenced by one's world view. They aren't by definition accurate, so discovering new and fruitful possibilities is more like a shot in the dark for the average person. This is why most people aren't wise, and by extension older people.

>>17080301
You mean living in the present?

>>17080290
>You are missing the mark on what wisdom is.
>t doesn't give you a +10 to your wisdom score, it makes you act a little differently (the actions themselves can be good or bad)

Wisdom is leading things to a desirable outcome, not neutral or bad. Whether it makes you act differently in the right way is wisdom, and that can only be determined in your future as events come and go. This is why it's chancy and not able to be generalized as a quality of certain persons (old people). Wisdom is held by people who know how to control important outcomes (have certain personalities for it) and have some luck on top of it.

Wisdom is knowing that you can't define it.

>>17079923
or maybe it would be fucking disgusing ? Who knows

>>17079923
Are you retarded? Tomato in a fruit salad would be disgusting.

>>17080521
Elaborate

>>17080526
>>17080530

Other people that are not you can have different personal tastes than you. The more you know!

>>17080521
>Wisdom is knowing that you can't define it.

That's dumb. Wisdom is just the ability to make judgements; that have positive outcomes for themselves, and the rest of the people around them. I just defined it.

Most of you commenting have no clue what wisdom is because you don't have any, so trying to argue that it's x vs. y is 100% pointless.

OP is either an autist or this is b8 m8.

>>17080550
Read again, I wasn't questioning the definition of wisdom itself. I defined it the same way you did, look at my post >>17080451 I was only wondering why is this wisdom attributed to older people and for that I wanted to see what's the opinion on wisdom. That's why I put it in quotes.

>>17080549
Nah, that shit is disgusting in a fruit salad. Not any of the guys you're replying to.

>>17080585
Did you know that not being able to differentiate between your own desires and others' is literally characteristic of a baby that's under 2 years old? See Jean Piaget's clinical psychology if you're interested.

>>17079878
They would definitely have more life knowledge since they've been around longer. It's not always about striving to do better or being high achievers, some people are just happy with a simpler lifestyle. Young people also tend to have more enthusiasm for life and are more ambitious because they haven't experienced the "real world" issues as much as older people have. It's sad but the world isn't fair and some people can never get what they want.

Also, it could just be that some people never learn anything from their experiences, so they grow up without ever going out of their comfort zone.

>>17080597
The butthurt is strong with this one.

>>17080605
No, I don't mind other people having different tastes than me. I realize that's a thing.

i think people only say old people are wiser because they have more life experience, but experience does not equal wisdom. i think generations have something to do with it as well; old people these days are baby boomers, and the way they navigated life and education were way different than previous generations.

>>17080609
Shit taste is also a thing.

>>17080615
>waaah mommy those meany heads like different things than me

Peek-a-boo! They're all gone, dear.

>>17080635
At least 4 anons have called you on your shit taste. Cry some more.

>>17079878
True that growing older does not imply that one has matured or "grown up". To me, growing up is partly about having enough life experience to be able to accept things you can't change. I don't get wound up any more over life and death being fair or unfair. I do my best to be considerate to others, to get in the way of beauty every day. It doesn't mean that I'm not competitive or that I don't strive to do and learn more. But I'm not anguished over silly shit any more.

I also learned in growing up that my parents were human. That sucked. They are close-minded and can't appreciate the dynamism in humans. I don't try to change them, but it makes me sad that their hearts aren't more open.

Maya Angelou quote: “I am convinced that most people do not grow up...We marry and dare to have children and call that growing up. I think what we do is mostly grow old."

>>17080639
I love using various food combinations. And I'm definitely not close minded enough to dismiss somebody else's taste. So there might as well be 400 anons saying it's shit. I like it so eat my toe-my-toe.

I saw a boomer hate thread earlier. I bet that guy's masturbating over your thread right now, OP.

>>17080658
So I had shared my exact sentiments with Maya Angelou without even knowing it. That's neat.