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Why aren't you practicing Pick Up /adv/? Seriously tho

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Why aren't you practicing Pick Up /adv/?

Seriously though, explain this to me:

I can't believe what I'm seeing.
the people in that video are the filtrate of society

don't bother with the PUA shit

just talk to girls to gain a little understanding of them for whem you meet someone who is worth commiting for
I don't understand what you mean.

What is the filtrate of society.
these aren't people that will elevate you to any degree.

basically they're shitty, garbage ass people that you shouldn't strive to be like
Who though?

The girls, or the pick up guy?
all of them
Because drunk girls are pretty easy to manipulate; particularly ones who are out to get wasted and mess around anyway. You just need to look and act a certain way, and they do practically half the work, because they're just out for something superficial. Contrary to what you may believe, girls have needs too.

Finding girls that you're actually compatible with enough to have something meaningful though, different story.
Shitty guides that don't help beyond getting laid.
I don't understand though, isn't there value in gaining experience with women before wanting to have something serious with a girl?

And how is the pick up guy a bad person, he seems to be giving guys free advice.

Why shouldn't I strive to be like him? I see the sorts of things he's doing with these girls, all the fun he's having, how hot the girls are... dude, I want in. I can't do that right now, and I doubt anyone on /adv/ can either.
>isn't there value in gaining experience with women before wanting to have something serious
no because life isnt a video game you autist
>the sorts of things he's doing with these girls, all the fun he's having
that's because your life is boring and meaningless
Why are you being so judgmental?

I don't see what's wrong with wanting to have sex with hot girls. I'm young, and I wanna enjoy life. I don't understand why you're trying to put other people down for wanting to live a different life than yours.

I saw the video with the pick up guy, and I was amazed at just his general freedom of expression. The way he just walked up to a girl he didn't know and instantly started making out with her.

Drunk girl or not, I can't DO that, I'm too aware of the rules and norms of society, and what is accepted and not to allow myself to do that.

I'm actually jealous of how freely he's able to just walk up to people and express himself.

I don't understand why you have to label it as bad. Can you do it?

It almost feels like criticising someone for being able lift 500lbs, or paint like Michaelangelo, and calling them shallow and vapid because they dedicated their time toward getting good at something.
then go ahead. prepare yourself for a grueling experience. the reality is some guys are too smooth just like some women are hot.

the alternative is to pay for a whore's ass if you aren't adept at handling women or fuck ugly fatties and break their hearts later
Pick up artist stuff is completely retarded. If you are well groomed and confident enough to do this shit to drunk girls then it won't be hard to get a kiss or even to take them home for a ONS.

Even that is stretching it. Just talk to a fucking girl at a club and be forward.
>Why aren't you practicing Pick Up /adv/?
Because PUAs are, pretty much by definition, some of the creepiest people alive. If anyone finds out what you are doing, say goodbye to your reputation.
>Why are you being so judgmental?
Because you are doing something worthy of judgment.

>I don't see what's wrong with wanting to have sex with hot girls.
The problem isn't what you want. The problem is what you're willing to do to get it.

>I'm young, and I wanna enjoy life.
You're immature, and you're playing with something you're not ready for.
What's creepy about it? Nothing in that video was creepy at all.
Did we watch the same video? That was seriously creepy, would be even creepier if he wasn't a good-looking young guy.
How was it creepy, I want examples.

The girls certainly didn't seem creeped out.
Well for a start literally bent a girl onto her back (as if he was holding her down), as well as picking up another
Would you let a stranger do that to you?
The RSD crowd are people that prey on other peoples insecurities, that's their income. If you weren't insecure and easily seduced into thinking there is a quick fix for you out there you wouldn't seek out these videos to begin with. Since you never address or work through your insecurities and instead repeat the mantra those insecurities will just keep on coming back, that makes you their milking cow.
I hear the "but they are offering advice for free", yes and no. The advice is free but the fee you have to pay is that you'll keep returning because if you don't find your own way in this world but try to emulate others you'll never get it right and those insecurities will just move to other areas of your life.
Actually, many times does Tyler state that there is no quick fix for anything.

All you have is dedication to consistently go out and take action. Learn for yourself is what he says. Watch the videos to gain perspective and to help you down your journey, but he says to form your own opinions.

In fact, he calls out the fanboys who blindly listen to him without taking other opinions into perspective.
Those girls had no problem letting him, and even followed him home after that.

I don't see your point, why is it creepy?
How many of the girls that he did those things to do you think reacted negatively? And how many of those do you think he would have ever put into his video? Just because you're seeing his occasional successes doesn't mean he always strikes gold.
It's a fairly out of context video, doesn't show you the turn backs
but even then it's fairly creepy
even one of the girls manages to slur out "you're a creep" before he interrupts her
I've actually seen him in videos where he gets blown out. He even admits it himself that not every girl he approaches is a pull.

Still, he's the most consisten pick up artist out there, and he knows his shit.

He knows how to properly calibrate things, and can read girl's behavioral cues right off the bat to see where she's at emotionally, and what he can get away with.

Even in the video OP posted, you see him take a step back cause it was too much for the girl, slow it down, and re-escalate on her once she felt more comfortable with him.

He even pointed it out to his audience, explaining why he did it, right in that video.
I don't really care what Tyler says, the point still stands. Everyone involved with rsd found a market that they could live off, and to continue that livelihood they are dependent on people still seeking them out.
Even if Tyler says that there are no quick fixes, or he calls out fanboys, the business model is based around people finding it as a quick fix. Today men feel lost and are convinced through culture that the height of achievement is to emulate others, specifically in the sexual realm. The transference process of sexual anxiety (I'm not sleeping with enough women, I'm not sleeping with enough women, I haven't had a threesome) is so easily subdued into, "just listen to these things and do them and all your troubles will disappear". All that will bring you is temporary calm until your issues re-appear in some other form. And since you've been pavlovian trained to seek out people telling you how to deal you'll seek out more videos telling you how to live. It's a vicious cycle.
She was giggling though, and she still went home to fuck him afterwards. She clearly didn't mean it.
@ 1:51 btw
Ok, so he makes money trying to help men get laid.

I don't see the problem. I've been doing this shit for 6 months, not paying a cent, and I'm seeing results. He offers products and bootcamps for the idiots who need to be handheld every step of the way, but I'm living proof that if you simply follow his free advice, you can have life changing experiences.

I have no qualms with how the guy makes his money. In fact, good for him, he's doing something very beneficial for people. I actually went to a free tour seminar a couple weeks ago, my first one, just to personally thank them for doing what they're doing.

If it weren't for them, I'd still be hung up over my unhealthy relationship with my hot bipolar exgf cause I though "she was special" and that a guy like me would never find a girl as hot as her again. I'd be continuously chasing after her, trying to win her over again, ruining my life in the process.

Instead, now, I'm happy. And I've met tons of gorgeous women in the past year.
Oh wow, he helped you realize something that most guys already know. Are you autistic or just pretending?
I saw it, he's making out with her in the next cut. Your point?

If she REALLY thought she was a creep, she wouldn't have made out with him.

Also, that girl had a fiance, probably why she was trying to blow him off.

Listen closely, he tells her
>that was a shitty kiss, are you REALLY gonna cheat on your fiance with such a shitty kiss?

Implying that she already kissed him before, and she was flustered and calling him a creep, he then interrupts her, and proceeds to get her to make out with him around the corner, where no one can see, despite being engaged.

I don't think she really thought he was a creep. Girls don't make out with creeps. Girls don't cheat on their boyfriends/husbands with creeps.
>what most guys already know

Ok anon, since you know. Tell me, what did I learn?
See, this is why I can tell you haven't fixed your anxieties surrounding women because you immediately fall into the trap of defense.
No, you are absolutely right there is nothing wrong with pua's making money if there is a niche to be filled let it be filled.
You still have inadvertently made them money though. By giving them clicks on youtube, even if you have adblock on you made the numbers go higher which will mean the videos will be recommended to others that might not have adblock, but I digress.
You always had the potential in you that you could find and meet hot girls, your psyche just needed someones approval for you to believe that yourself. Sooner or later life will go down again and then what will you do? Seek out another free seminar to again be told that everything is ok? Pay for a seminar this time.
Be your own master, that's what Tyler has done and if you believe the things you are saying thats what you should aspire to do as well.
>If it weren't for them, I'd still be hung up over my unhealthy relationship with my hot bipolar exgf cause I though "she was special" and that a guy like me would never find a girl as hot as her again. I'd be continuously chasing after her, trying to win her over again, ruining my life in the process.
I don't know, you tell me.
I'm waiting for your advice, you're the condescending one.

Go ahead, tell me what I learned.
They put that in their on purpose to show that even though girls will resist, you can bypass that resistance.

Mate do you honestly really not see how out of touch these guys are?

The reason why they picked up the Julien guy was because he appealed to a demographic of severely out of touch men who were consequently frustrated with women. It's why real social dynamics picks up any new guy on their little pick up team. It's why Owen in some of his videos will literally go out of his way to say that he has or had (make up your mind) aspergers. It's all economical man. Like it's to the point where you're even talking like them, it's bizarre, you sound like a cult member regurgitating jargon and cult philosophy.

What he's doing may benefit men in a very shallow and instantly gratifying way but the reality is that it is unspeakably destructive for society and the people who practise it in the long run. Don't get sucked in to it. And no I'm not a 'chode' because I disagree with something. There's just a way of thinking which is well beyond it all, and curiously enough that's the way of thinking which people exist in normally and why most people see these guys and what they do as incredibly creepy.

Please hear me OP. I'm not insulting you like some of these other anons. I really want you to see that there's something better, something actually healthy instead of just less-unhealthy.
I only went to the seminar to meet wings and thank the guys, that's all dude.

I have no problem with giving the guys money, considering what I got from them for free already, I'm inclined to give back.

I don't need anything much from them, what I got for free was more than enough for me.
Ok, I'm gonna be open-minded.

How and why is it shallow?

And what are the alternatives you propose?
>Girls don't make out with creeps. Girls don't cheat on their boyfriends/husbands with creeps.
Women are perpetually burdened with the fear of being raped or murdered. They will bend to the will of a man in that capacity. Don't get me wrong, to some minor extent that's actually natural and really just how male-female interaction works at its most basic level, but to abuse that is beyond sick and not only criminal but flat out evil.
haha wow, you're beta enough that you needed a PUA to teach you something you already know, and you're beta enough that you feel obligated to pay someone who has obviously scammed you
You know, in Chinese culture it is considered rude to spell out your point like this. You have learned that, to lean on cliché, "there are other fish in the ocean" and that you don't have to suffer a toxic relationship just because you've deluded yourself into thinking that "shes muh speshul someone". You immense retard.
I agree wholeheartedly, it's a sad state of affairs that so many men are insecure these days.
Yes it is cult like. My guess is it's the same reason people keep getting suckered into scientology someone listens to them and they hear what they are lacking and how this can be fixed. It's modern serfdom when all reason in western life lies open for you to be your own master.
You really can't feel the creepiness about it when you watch the videos?

I'm not trying to put you down if you can't. But tell me, you really don't feel creeped out by it? Like at all? I really understand putting feelings on the back burner and seeing it through a more intellectual lens, but just from an objective point of view, the fundamental creepiness to it far outweighs any intellectual aspect of it.

Too bad we're not in China.

Keep evading the point though, you just seem content in berating me without offering anything constructive.

I'm giving you a chance to explain what "the obvious thing I learned" was, because you're right, it was obvious, but there's a lot of nuance to it.

You seem to just take more enjoyment in trying to reaffirm your own values by putting other people down. In short, you're insecure.

Seriously dude, I've done nothing but keep an open mind to what you have to say, and you've resorted to insults and goal post moving.
Motherfucker, I told you exactly what you learned in >>16441734 . You have to be completely retarded, jesus fucking christ almighty.
Man, you got a lot to learn if you think communication is as simple as 'tell me what I'm doing wrong' 'okay it's this, this, this and especially this'.

I understand that you honestly do want to get what we're saying, and the way these other anons are insulting you, while I understand that as well, really isn't needed, but you're getting in your own way by asking for specifics. Like you have to figure those out on your own, you know? We can only guide you and tell you the path you're on right now is the wrong one, but it's up to you as a man to see which one is right.
How about I S P E L L it out for since the other anon won't
>unhealthy relationship with my hot bipolar exgf
this is where you have gone clearly wrong
you have obviously have no judgement in makes a woman good and are purely going for the girls just like in the video
>plenty of fish in the sea
well no fucking duh
Every one of these girls is a one night stand
You are pretty much digging through an ocean of shit just to find one sane girl
Instead of using a rational methods that work
If I'm perfectly honest, no I don't. Not at all.

Reason being is cause I go out regularly, and this sort of behaviour is very normal in these environments. I know what these sorts of interactions feel like based on the emotional vibe.

Sometimes I have crazy nights where I'm saying random shit, and instantly making out with girls I hardly know.

Other nights, I even have girls approach me, and start getting very touchy, letting me know they want me to kiss them and stuff. Like, they do this to me. And I don't feel creeped out by it either.

Sometimes I'm out of state and in my head and I have a very egh night that I just call early and go home (keep in mind that I don't drink when I go out).

To me, creepy is standing to the side with a drink in your hand, not aporoaching girls, watching them from afar with lust, but too afraid to be clear in your intent.

To me, creepy is getting hammered, ruining your health, and losing control.of your senses, annoying girls who want nothing to do with you cause you're drunk.

To me, creepy is guys trying cut in on my opens cause they're jealous and opportinistic.

I've had nights where I go out, and I see this happen, and literally the pull happens cause the girl wants to get away from the drunk guy who's been pestering her all night. He was sorta cool at first, but quickly became a pain in the ass. So they cling to me, tell me "save me" and all it takes is for me to just take their hand, and leave the club with them, go to a park, or an alley, talk, start making out, and if she's down, have sex at hers or mine. If not, we trade numbers and meet up some other day.

Tbe choice to say yes or no is always in their hands. And people always say, "it's cause she's drunk," but if that's the case, then why do they always wanna see me the next day?
No, I get what he's saying, but he's wrong.

I learned a lot over the past year. Not "something obvious every guy knows."

No, he doesn't know. That's why every answer he's giving me is either flat out wrong or too simplistic.

I gave him a chance to speak his mind and prove his point without trying to contradict him. I gave him a fair shot despite him being a condescending prick, I didn't even try to debate with him. But he merely resorted to insults and putting me down.

And for the record, I'm not OP. I'm the guy who's been doing PU for a year now.
Okay first of all my man you really have got to stop talking like them. It's incredibly off-putting. You remind me of how Julien imitates Owen's little south park voice and how that became his whole personality basically. You need to stop lol.

Okay, now to the real response. Women are not omniscient, immortal creatures. They are weaker than you. Just take what you said. They have this reaction to a certain guy which causes them to cling to you. They then cling to you again after you took advantage of them, in a way.

These women, despite how attractive you may think they are, are damaged. You're assuming that damage isn't there to gratify your ego.
See this is why you fail because you think you have things to learn. pick up artists aren't teaching you anything you are just using them as a proxy to give yourself permission to do stuff you've always wanted to do. They aren't teaching you how to be a man, they are teaching you mental tricks that might or might not land you into sex.
Again, learn to be your own master that is the most important lesson in life.
What you consider knowledge may well be ignorance to the next man.

I'm not exactly sticking up for that anon, I think he's being a hypocrite by insulting you guys, though I am sticking up for what he's saying.
The reason why this is wrong is because you are treating girls like object, like some game you can play. How the fuck is this something you look up too, what you want to be? They don't think you're cute, they think you're creepy but don't want to embarass you in front of their friends and thus go with it, because that's what's expected of them.
Damaged how?

How do you know this?

Also, isn't fair to say I've been damaged too?

Everyone suffers in life. Women may be physically weaker than men, but they can also be very strong emotionally. Men and women are equal after all, this is the basis of feminism, isn't it?

Men earn the right to be vulnerable, and women the right to be empowered and independent. To make their own choices.

The reason the women trusted me over their friends is cause they felt comfortable with me, cause they felt attraction.

This is not taking advantage of someone. They always have the choice and power to say no or decline, and I never take that away from them. I simply move things forward and invite them to take part.
Ever stop to consider that women LIKE being objectified?

It's not the what that matters, it's the how.

>the only thing I know for certain is that I know nothing at all

I forget who said that, but it's a good quote.

I think the belief that you have nothing to learn in life is arrogant, and INCREDIBLY narrow-minded. Pick up aside, I'm ALWAYS reading books, I'M always seeking to learn new things, physics, history, psychology, languages, etc...

How you could adopt this mentality, and moreover, use it as criticism is beyond me.
You sound like a shill. Stop trying to promote your shitty videos about picking up the lowest of the low girls. All it does is prey on the dream of finding that special someone using your cheap manipulative tactics that instead pick up drunk club skanks that will cheat on their fiances.
You are damaged. That is why you feel no creepiness in watching these videos.

>Women may be physically weaker than men, but they can also be very strong emotionally. Men and women are equal after all, this is the basis of feminism, isn't it?
Women are even weaker emotionally than they are physically compared to men. Men and women are not equal. Feminism is very much the same type of ideology and philosophy and cult of damage which pick up is.

>Men earn the right to be vulnerable, and women the right to be empowered and independent. To make their own choices.
No that's a little bit too new-agey. It is true, this idea of exception. But it's not exactly about 'earning' because that implies there's some sort of set process which anyone could uptake. If that were the case there would be nothing exceptional about it. And that's exactly the problem today. Men and women respectively who are vulnerable and independent in a very phoney way.

>This is not taking advantage of someone. They always have the choice and power to say no or decline, and I never take that away from them. I simply move things forward and invite them to take part.
This is reductionist. Not looking at the bigger picture. You have more responsibility than to just abide to their consent. You as a man are responsible for what they consent to, and not just if they do it.
That picture is heartbreaking.
As a woman, I can tell you, we don't. We know you say the same shit to everyone, and you're just doing it to get laid. And those who don't yet, they will realize it and become insecure as fuck. I'm a waitress in a restaurant, and every evening I get fuckers like this, and they all think they're the exception, they're not creepy. But they are, and I have to stay nice to them and laugh a bit, not because I will get fired if I don't (my boss is a pretty cool guy about being rude to guests and after they've paid I can do what I want anyway), but because I've learned to stay nice, to not make them go off in front of other people, not look like an uptight bitch, because they know where I work and around what time I will be finished and simply because I don't want any trouble. Seriously the only guy I legitimately found nice or where I would've done something with is a shy guy who came up to me, and without some cool tricks just said 'hey i think you're super cute'. And now don't say 'that's only you' because it isn't, every woman I know thinks the same about this. You think they like you, they are only nice to you because that's what gets the least trouble. As soon as you're gone they talk to their friends about how creepy you are and how awful your techniques are, because they're not genuine.
>The kingdom of god is within you

All knowledge resides within you, good or bad, we sometimes need apertures like books or conversation to bring it forth, but it was always there. It's all about where you place your self worth. In yourself or in others. When I walk into a room I know that I am both the smartest person present and the dumbest.
Alright man, well we have different value systems.

Nothing I say is gonna convince you, and nothing you say is gonna convince me. We simply see the world in different ways. You see women as weak, and as if they need to be protected, I see them as my equals and as if they just wanna have fun. So there's no point in debating and it's better to agree to disagree.

Whatever works for you, and whatever works for me man, we live different lives, and we experience different things. My life as am living it makes me feel happy and fulfilled, you might not agree with it, but, it's my life dude.

I get results, I have fun, I sleep with hot women, I pursue higher goals in life, and I enjoy life.

What more could I want?
Tangent to what this thread is about but I go to this 24 hour diner every other week and have known this waitress who works the night shift for a year or so now. She's a beautiful woman and I basically figured out all of what you're explaining about how women essentially don't want to cause trouble and how a lot of their behaviour is based around that from being around her.

Problem is, our interaction quickly became very stilted because I knew and she knew that I knew. Not stilted in a bad way, more in the manner of mutual respect. I don't know. I like her though, I'm wondering if you have any advice to give to me.
>just talk to girls to gain a little understanding of them for whem you meet someone who is worth commiting for

This is PUA in a nutshell

>fix your own problems
>package yourself to look attractive
>talk to women
>play the numbers game
>understand the importance of touch
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Sorry dude, I'm an atheist.

Hard to judge over the web, not even sure if I'd find you attractive, or if we'd vibe well, plus your opinion is not representative of all women.

That aside, who knows, if we spenr time, or if we talked, based on the vibe, you might respond well to it. Or maybe, we simply have ZERO chemistry, and we flat out wouldn't get along.

In my experience, all hot girls claim to be nice little girls who don't like sex, but if you give them a chance, and they like they guy, they do all sorts of dirty things. It's all a matter of how much they feel they can get away with without being judged.

This may or may not apply to you. If you're a hot girl who doesn't think this way, then perhaps you're very religious, or have very strong conservative values, which, in short, we wouldn't get along at all.

And that's fine, not everone is meant to like each other. But my experiences with hundreds of women outweigh your one opinion.
Hmm I think you should have casual conversations with her when she isn't busy. None of the overused cheesy jokes people use in restaurants as a starter, but tell something about yourself. Only asking about her isn't going to give off the good vibe. I think the manner of mutual respect is a very good start, I'm usually much more silent to guests I enjoy/respect. Night shifts can get boring, and learning about other peoples lives is interesting.
Why would you apologize for being an atheist? I am one to. If you don't understand the concept of that quote then I think you'll find much hardship in life.
Yeah I see women as weak, but the difference between you and me in our value systems is that I don't see this as a bad thing. Women are just weak by nature, so weakness in women is not a bad thing but a good thing. Weakness may be bad in men, but it is good in women. Strength man be bad in women, but it is good in men. So while your system of values is that of homogeneousness, one where that distinction, that real difference between men and women is made, my system of values is one of heterogeneousness, where it is made.

It's like how a baby is cute, but a fully developed adult is attractive. It's not good for a baby to be attractive but it is good for a baby to be cute, and on the other hand, it's good for an adult to be attractive, but it's not good for them to be 'cute'.

You may say, 'oh well you're comparing women to children'. And yes, yes I am, and that's because if a woman can't be compared to a child, then a child cannot be considered cute. It's a comparison anyway, not an identification.

You have this idea that the world is just a place where people have 'different' systems of value, you somehow have fallen into the belief that to want to do things like 'agreeing to disagree' is this noble sort of thing, but that's actually mistaken, it's the opposite of noble, 'agreeing to disagree' is most of the time just weakness, ignorance, refusal to accept reality.

Where there exists different systems of value amongst people, those systems of value will all be homogenous. Where there exists only one system of value amongst people, that system of value will be heterogenous.

Your problem is that, on paper, your life sounds good, but your life is not a piece of paper.
I wasn't paying much attention, I merely skimmed it, and initial vibe I got what very religious and preachy.

Like, trying to categorize things are either good or bad.

Sorta like, "original sin is within us, but so is the goodwill of our lord."
I never said I don't like sex, and nor do I keep that a secret in real life. Hell, I'm a fucking pole dancer and sometimes strip just for fun. And yes, at that moment I enjoy being objectified, because I put myself in that position. Not because some random guy did. And yes, when I have a just sex relation with someone, I'm fine with it too. But when someone just comes up to me and start acting like that, I hate it. And I also hate it when I meet a cool guy with whom I could be friends, but every fucking word he says is fake and repetitive and we can never have an actual conversation.
As an atheist, don't fear religious doctrine it holds much wisdom.
The full quote goes

>Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

If you mediate that into your life, you will know what powers your body and mind holds. That is the first step to being your own master.
Casual conversation would be the natural thing I think but I we're both too smart about the other to pretend to be casual that way.

I mean you like a person and you lower yourself in that way for the sake of it, but I really do understand her to the point where that would be completely fake. I suppose I'm answering my own question here though. Men and women aren't mean to understand each other. At least not before they're one.
What do you want from her? If only sex, yes she will know. If you are interested in her as a person, she will also know that. Skip the whole small talk part, because you come to her restaurant often she will feel like she knows you already, in a way.
I disagree and I disagree fully.

You seem to assume that there only one objective set of correct values in life. However, even the values of society change over time, thus, how can you possibly claim that your values are correct, how do you even know.

When all you are, like me, is a sponge. Everything you've learned in life, all your values, are adopted from a world of varying contrasts and opinions. How can you claim there is one objective reality to the world, when everyone's perspective in life is molded by their individual experience.

The fact is, you can't, and it's incredibly arrogant to claim that you can.

Conflict over differing opinions have existed since the dawn of time, different values. Thus, how can you ever be so sure that your own set of adopted values is so correct that you need to impose them over others? To claim them as the objective reality?

True weakness is shielding your values from a changing world. Not the opposite. The values that are strong enough to have merit, will survive in a transforming social environment, just like evolution.

Ideology, identity, reality, all of this is subjective.

2nd, in regard to women.

I.never said they were homogeneous. I said they were equal, and equal to me. I see women a human beings just like me who can offer value, insight, and experience to help me grow and mature in life just like I can to them, BECAUSE we're different. Different human beings who connect as they go through life. Being different doesn't mean you're weak, and it certainly doesn't mean they "need" me to protect them. I can help them, and they can help me, and this is the equal give and take exchange I share with every woman I interact with. Hot or not.

It's arrogant and bigotted to believe otherwise. I'm a human being, just like them. Not better or worse in any way.
I don't find strangers attractive but there are a rare few that catch my attention, and holy shit is that rare.
Well then, your problem isn't with being objectified, your problem is with fake people.

If a genuinely cool guy came up to you, playfully provoked you, saying things that were "out there" to get you turned on, but also made an effort to connect with you and appreciate you for who you are, then you wouldn't have a problem with it.

In fact, you'd love it.

Because he's being real, he knows you like sex, and he isn't ashamed of himself.

Don't lie to these nerds making them think that all women are prudes who hate anything sexual and need to be protected by uptight "nice guys."

You and I both know the truth.

I'm fine with spirituality, and I like SOME of the messages in religion. But as a whole, being raised Catholic, I have a great distrust and dislike for organized religion.

I simply take what works for me and leave out the rest.

Plus, I'm more into oriental beliefs like Buddhism and Daoism.
Yes but the truth is, you aren't a genuinely cool guy. You're just an immature boy with a fucked up ego and superiority complex.
Lot of assumptions there anon.
Legit question:

Why does pick up stuff always trigger /adv/ so hard?

Every time I see one of these threads it's always filled with shitposting.
What are you taking as evidence for the idea that the values of society change over time? Because different cultures historically have had different values? Let me open your mind up to a thought. What if those are just different interpretations of value? That the values actually never change, that some just get them more right, or more wrong, than others?

That's more open minded than this idea that people simply have 'different' values, as if it were a case of this magical thing where it can be different without that difference meaning anything.

That's right, you're a sponge, one of the most low forms of life. Understand that's not me name-calling you. I'm making a point that the type of person who 'sponges' up knowledge freely and with no direction, no angle, is exactly like a sponge in that sponges are practically the stupidest creatures outside of the microscope.

So it is not a good thing to be a sponge. It is NOT a good thing to just take up as much knowledge as you can get. That's cheap. That's treating all knowledge as some sort of set of homogenous objects, rather than heterogenous subjects.

>How can you claim there is one objective reality to the world, when everyone's perspective in life is molded by their individual experience.
Not even clear on what point you're making here. It seems like you're trying to project pure vagueness in order to brainwash yourself.

>The fact is, you can't, and it's incredibly arrogant to claim that you can.
I'm simply relaying something. Don't kill the messenger and proclaim that I'm somehow arrogant. That's like calling a scientist mean for discovering an asteroid which will soon be the destruction of Earth.
This guy has the right idea. This whole garbage thread reeks of "check my YouTube videos like and subscribe".

Further more, the matter in these nonsense videos only appeal to people who've got a damaged sense of responsibility and think they've found a shortcut to things without having to face any consequence. People who've had their desires manipulated and exploited, tricked and programmed to go out and practise the same deception on women, to lure and tempt them and then convince that none of them are guilty of having their self worth damaged or any other indecency like cheating on fiance's or partners, damaging their sense of responsibility in turn but covering it up at the same time.

What kind of meaningful relationships can grow in such a sullied foundation? What damaged people are left behind for the sake of one night stands and giving in to lust?

Honest people, who resist cheating or trying to take shortcuts in life, are resistant to this. Whenever you meet such a person you'll realize all this pua nonsense holds any value, has little use, and is generally a waste of time and resources.

>Conflict over differing opinions have existed since the dawn of time, different values. Thus, how can you ever be so sure that your own set of adopted values is so correct that you need to impose them over others? To claim them as the objective reality?
Because the conflict of opinion is often a case of one group being correct and the other refusing that correctness. You may say that this property is symmetric in that it's transferable to both yourself as well as myself in this argument, but empirically, who is the person who is upholding vagueness and subjectivity, and who is the person who is upholding clarity and objectivity? The latter is typically the person who is right, whom the other is in blind refusal of (which what conflicts essentially stem from). Though this is only in the case of intellectual topics. Geopolitical questions like, for instance, is Israel or Palestine in the wrong that line of reasoning is helpless to.

>True weakness is shielding your values from a changing world. Not the opposite. The values that are strong enough to have merit, will survive in a transforming social environment, just like evolution.
I see your point here but this is the most primitive manner of deduction possible. There is a reason why things like social darwinism are looked down upon. There is a reason why evolution through natural selection is a natural process. I'm not denying its efficiency, but there is also a primitivity to it which is where you're wrong. Some things should remain primitive though, but other things, like value, shouldn't. Subjective systems of value are primitive (though efficient), whereas objective systems of value are sophisticated (and sufficient).

>Ideology, identity, reality, all of this is subjective.
Only in the most primitive sense. This is why before we were humans, we were essentially apes, because all of our ideology, identity, and reality were these totally subjectivised things to the point where even things like language weren't possible. And this heavily related back to rsd because this is essentially their disease. To regress back to this infantile, primitive state of 'nothing matters' and to go from there. That's how they cheat the system and get the women. But that, as you can imagine, has terrible, terrible consequences.

>2nd, in regard to women.
>I never said they were homogeneous.
I never said that you said they were. Go back and reread what I wrote.

You're still seeing the idea of women being weak and needing your protection as a man in this bad way. You're still not differentiating that women are fundamentally not men and that weakness and the need for protection in their case is not the same thing as weakness and a need for protection in the case of a man, which would make him weak, which is a bad thing, because weakness in men is a bad thing.

But women are not men. And that's my point. You do not, despite what you're telling me right now, see that difference.

>It's arrogant and bigotted to believe otherwise. I'm a human being, just like them. Not better or worse in any way.
This is a deeply mistaken point of view and is the seat of all of your difficulties and problems. You are a 'human being' who is 'just like them' in only the most absolutely primitive sense. To deconstruct everything to that level is a literal nonstarter. 'Not better or worse in any way'. Simply the failure to recognise difference. In the sense of psychological and cognitive development where your capacity for understanding difference in the world was retarded somehow.
Bitches call me buffalo
I want sex but not in the typical way. I feel like we could really connect sexually because of the similar depth of personality.

She has a boyfriend though so it's not going to happen. Not that I wouldn't pursue a girl with a boyfriend but it complicates an already complicated situation.

Sucks how all the good ones are taken.
Fair enough anon, then if you aren't a sponge, then let me ask you, where do your values come from?

Were you born with them?

Does this then mean that morality is ingrained in us? Are some people born evil and others good?

If you're not born with your values, then where do they come from, and if you (and the rest of humanity) adopted them from their environment, then how are you NOT an information sponge?

2nd, what is an objective reality then?

And how can you claim that some things are absolute good and others absolute bad? Ever? Philosophy has been debating this for centuries.

Lastly, the values of society do change, examples:

Human Rights Movement
Women's rights

Also, may I remind you that there once existed a society that believed in an Aryan Master race, and their values deemed others worthy of murder.

Today, a society of values COUNTER to the west exists. It's not "the same value system" it's the literal opposite.

Examples could go on.

An entire war over ideology lasted decades (the cold war), tell me, who was ultimately "right" or "good?"

Is communism bad?

But communism is built on the concept of equality. Does this mean equality is wrong then? Of course, the adaptation was wrong, not the values. In which case, is capitalism, and the concept of "survival of the fittest" inherently bad?
The reason why a person would read your post and reject it, as common sensical as it is, is because there's this underlying, unconscious belief structure that if something irresponsible and damaging to self-worth like feminism can be the status quo, then you must be contradicting yourself in some way.
So just try to become friends? Like I said, you kinda know eachother already so it wouldn't be creepy really.

>Not even clear on what point you're making here. It seems like you're trying to project pure vagueness in order to brainwash yourself.

What I mean is this:

Everyone sees the world through their own unique lens. And since society is built by a collective of different realities, nothing is ever objective. Society and it's values, are thus always transformative.

This is why religion existed in the past as the ultimate dogma, claiming that the will of God was the only thing that was purely objective.

However, religion, and those beliefs and values are also built by men, just like you and me.

Remember, "all men are created equal."

So what makes their values superior to anyone elses?

This also harks back to Descartes and his philosophies about reality. In the end ge concluded that nothing is absolute or objective because it's all based on our own perception of the world, which CAN and is molded by our environment.

This is why science exists as the most objective measurement of the world, and even IT is incomplete.

In the end,

>there are but two things in this world, science, and opinion
>no because life isnt a video game you autist
Yes it is, all vidya is based on real life. Go back to reddit noggert
>there are but two things in this world, science, and opinion

is that absolute?
>where do your values come from?
From within, not from without.

>Were you born with them?
Yes, all human beings are born with identical values. What happens is we interpret them differently, both at the individual and social level. That interpretation, subjectivity, is not a matter of this magical 'difference' of which you purport, but of loss of information. Of being better and worse.

>Does this then mean that morality is ingrained in us? Are some people born evil and others good?
Relatively speaking, yes. We are human beings, though. Which means that we do not have to stay evil (and, regrettably, that we also do not have to stay good).

I'm not saying I'm not an information sponge. I am, just at the most basic level possible. And the reason why identifying oneself as an information sponge is bad is because that identifies a person through what they least are, rather than what they most are, which is obviously contradictory to the whole idea of identity.

>2nd, what is an objective reality then?
Simply that which is already there, rather than what you create. I'm not saying creation is bad, but that it must happen naturally. The more deliberately and conscious your creation, the less real it is.

This is why good music and art is done through inspiration, insight. And why super self-conscious people are bloody terrible with the opposite sex, or just with others in general. Why every kid who sets out to 'make a million' without fail becomes just another chump.

>And how can you claim that some things are absolute good and others absolute bad? Ever? Philosophy has been debating this for centuries.
The reason why there is this appearance of the fact that these are ongoing debates in philosophy is because once somebody understands philosophy, they move past it. As in the last two propositions of the TLP by Wittgenstein.

>Lastly, the values of society do change, examples:
None of those things are good things so much as they are confused things.
No, it's not.
Then it's incoherent and can't even be said in the first place.

If you don't agree that it's absolute then the quote is completely meaningless.
Wow, he's tall and good looking. I'm sure that has nothing to do with his success in that video!
Have you ever known a guy who you didn't let into your life because you felt like he could dominate you so readily the whole just didn't even seem fair or real?
Okay now I'm sure this is a public relations thing because I remember Owen bringing up his height in this exact way in some video and no dude, no, Julien Blanc is not good looking. I wouldn't say he's downright ugly or anything but he's probably the closest thing you can get to that and still be remotely desirably to the opposite sex.

His chin is weak, his nose is fucked up, his eyes are beady and soulless, his forehead is neanderthal-tier, he's balding, and his personality is severely stunted. Not to mention he has man titties.

I thought this way before the whole scandal thing btw.
>What kind of meaningful relationships can grow in such a sullied foundation?

Some kind. Which is better than none, which is for many people the status quo. Do you have a better alternative for them than PUA?

I do, but you'll probably like my proposal even less. Hookers.
I'm short, borderline autistic and going for a math degree,
How about religion and family values?
Not really i guess
What about them? How do these address the problem at hand?
Monogamy is not for everyone.

It's valid, but different people strive for different things in life.

Why must we fit everyone into a predefined mold?

Prostitution is a business in the first place. No clown act, no pua tricks and deception. The people involved know what they're doing, what they are, and know what the consequences can be (to some extent at least). They know it can perhaps affect their self image, they know other people may have a negative opinion about it, other risks, etc...

I'm willing to bet that a relationship between a client who fell in love with a prostitute has more chance of success than a pick up artist and some person he had a one night stand with after performing a stand-up comedy routine (in a situation where the pua wants more).

Why? Because the first pairing already has that base layer of honesty, they're in touch with reality. Only by being true to yourself can people achieve that.
You are totally deluded and your sense of morality is all kinds of fucked up.

Why do you hate pick up so much?

It's just self improvement and socializing.

What happened, did a PUA steal your gf or something?
To add to that. The pua person (and the other person too) would have to address and reevaluate himself before attempting any lasting relationship. In other words they'd have to look at reality and their ways of approach that only got them to those base, lustful short encounters.
Says who?

Who says there's one way to start a relationship?
It's not about starting it, it's about keeping it.
They lead people into relationships naturally.

Instead of going to a club or a bar and getting wasted or coked out of your mind in order to be in the breeding grounds as it were and find a mate, you go to church or other events and treat people as subjects, not objects.

Being religious is the natural way of finding a mate. Family values is the natural way of a relationship being held together.

Everything else is forced and self-conscious to the point of self-interruption. A headache, basically. Numbing yourself to a headache doesn't solve the underlying malnutrition or dehydration, or even cancer, which caused it.

Asking 'why must we fit everyone into a predefined mould' in terms of monogamy is like saying 'why is it that the universe must be PHYSICAL; such oppression'.

Prostitution is a business. Just an illegitimate one. I would say pick up is actually a great deal more legitimate as a whole than prostitution, because, while, yes, prostitution is a lot more honest and authentic, for lack of more suitable term, it is a great deal more foul a thing in general.

There is no virtue in honesty where it is sin.
>It's just self-improvement and socialising
Self-improvement in the sense of learning things in order to distract from real problems and socialising in the sense of an autistic person learning to socialise but never actually doing so. Sure.
Wouldn't you say a person more experienced in relationships is more skilled at handling the problems that crop up?

Especially a person who spends time STUDYING how to comprehend the opposite sex.

Isn't it kinda stupid to assume a person with zero to little experience in something is gonna "magically" get good on their first try?
You seem to have a lot of prejudice toward something you don't comprehend anon.

You're wrong on both counts, and your projections and assumptions make you come off as insecure.
>implying knowing how to pick up chicks is the same as being experienced in relationships
One night stands are not relationships any way you slice it.
I have nothing against the idea of self improvement and such. I'm all for it and support that.

But a lot of the pick up stuff I've encountered revolves around manipulation and trickery, and using any actual self improvement to only.improve upon those things only for the sake of "getting the chicks" and getting laid.

Wasted and misdirected potential. Sometimes even with the malicious intent of sucking money out of the people who may actually believe that they can self improve.

That is the problem with it.
So you're a religiousfag then.

Gotcha, opinion discarded.

>criticises people about being brainwashed
>belongs to one of the most brainwashing institutions around since the dawn of time

This is why you should never argue with a religious person. They'll do all sorts of mental gymnastics to prove their fucked points.
Most people who do PUA get into open relationships.

Their focus is on both.

In fact, when they find a girl worth keeping, they usually do.

The concepts of harems and rotations are also common among PUA. And trust me, getting a girl to accept being part of a harem is MUCH harder than a monogamous relationship.

The entire RSD crew has a girlfriend btw, and when they go their separate ways, they very quickly get another. In fact, Julien has been in a two year relationship with "the nicest girl he's a ever met," pure, and innocent, and Tyler recently broke up with the love of his life, and mostly for HER sake. Since at the end of it all, she still wants him back.

This man also has two kids btw.
You sound like you've been heart broken by a girl who instantly took cock while you gave days, months, years to swoon her
Studying in this case is completely counterproductive. You don't study socialisation in order to get good at it. That's autistic.

You do magically get good because it's all about what's inside. For people that have nothing inside of them they need to study and learn. For people who have a soul, it comes naturally, and on its own in terms of the situation. You don't have to go 'meet people' in other words. That happens on its own. I know you think 'travelling to 50 cities a year' to meet girls is cool but in reality that's actually incredibly creepy.

What you do is you don't study and 'learn' pick up. You come to know yourself not by learning through external resources but through introspection, and you gain a soul that way, and that soul interacts naturally with others in the world and you eventually get a girlfriend. Maybe tomorrow, maybe in a decade. But 'learning' AKA knawledge here in my garage with my brand new lamborgeeny (tai lopez and rsd are in bed with each other btw, same marketisation of the self-help cult) is completely counterproductive to coming to know oneself. Every book you read learning about the world you waste time which could have been spent coming to know yourself as a human being and a person.

I'm not saying knowledge of the external world is bad. It's just terrible in terms of relationships.

You're going really out of the way to fend for your autism man.
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I would much sooner spend money on hookers than lose thousands more on so called courses that revolve around
>yeah man if you lock up these interesting hobbies and learn a bunch of that stuff you will be a better man
>field training right after
>yeah man just grope her it will totally work, bitches don't care about any that stuff we talked about earlier
>just stick a finger or two between her legs man, don't worry
There is a line where brainwashed is no longer brainwashed. Just like there is a line where being a know-it-all becomes being a professional.

The problem is you have no sense of reverence, so you naturally see religion as this vacuous thing no different than a cult. Thing is though, whereas a cult's main purpose is self-perpetuation, religion's primary purpose is to imbue that sense of reverence, its self-perpetuation only secondary.

All of the core concepts of pick up can be applied to other areas of life.

Modern day PU is more like marketing, and less like deception and trickery.

Plus, a lot of RSDs content is about general self development, over tactics. Since a core concept of PU is BECOMING a high value man that women WANT desperately. Becoming a man in your prime who's living to their full potential in all areas of life.
Jesus Christ how much are they paying you to be here.

This is more autistic than seeing them say shit into guys' ears AS they're trying to pick up women, where the women can clearly see and hear it happening right in front of them.
>more like marketing, and less like deception and trickery
>implying they aren't exactly the same thing, just a wolf in sheepskin.

>Becoming a man in your prime who's living to their full potential in all areas of life.
Retarded. Absolutely stupid. That's not something you can sell to people.
Prostitution is hands down the most honest sexual interaction between man and woman in the history of our species.
Honest in the sense of autism and incompetence not in the sense of realness.

There's nothing honest in the sense of real about paying for sex. That's completely unnatural.
For many unattractive men it's the only possible way to get anywhere near what they pay for.
Attraction in men is relative to their spirit and drive (of which behaviour is only a byproduct). If a man can't get near a woman he likes that's more a fault of his personal responsibility than it is anything else.
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Fuck off shill.
>spirit and drive
It's not that simple. Tesla died a virgin.
By choice.
Definitely would not consider Tesla the most spirited (or even driven) man. Inclined certainly. Not driven. Absolutely not spirited.

Let's hear you argue that Alexander the Great or Caesar or Napoleon were virgins.
That isn't semantics at all. The difference between inclination and drivenness is not a trivial one.

It is as simple as being driven, or spirited. It is not as simple as just being inclined. Therefore not semantics.
>Being religious is the natural way of finding a mate.

Oh jeez.

This whole argument reeked of sexual immaturity and now I understand why. Of course a brainwashed religious idiot who thinks sex is bad on principle is going to have a moral problem with people going out with the intention of having casual sex. You don't have a problem with PUA, you have a problem with sex, and on a greater scale, people's actions not lining up with the narrow moral pigeonhole that was forced on you by your peers.

This argument was subtly pissing me off and now I realize why. Religious logic, folks.
Nobody forced religion on me friend. I'm religious because I live in the degeneracy capital of the world where nobody is and I see firsthand how bad it can get. In your Podunk town where the population is low and casual sex is thus hidden away by default such that it doesn't matter of course you've come to believe that casual sex is harmless, or that religion is superfluous.

Try living in an actual city where people have given up on all of the wholesome things in life just to seek pleasure and to a point of no return as well. Then you'll see the necessity of religious logic.
Okay? I wouldn't mind trying but I don't have the money to go out all the time and buy drinks for girls let alone myself. Shit's expensive.
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