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Naruto >MC dreams of becoming a military dictator and the

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Naruto
>MC dreams of becoming a military dictator and the secret police are the good guys
>genocide is completely justified
Bleach
>the good guys are a military group who rule heaven as a feudal ghetto
>genocide is completely justified
One Piece
>the good guys are people rebelling against the corrupt police state
>genocide is evil
>>
Shut the fuck up wanpisstard. They are PIRATES they are criminals who ruin civilian lives.
>>
>>162327127
Madara and Yhwach did nothing wrong.
Akainu did everything wrong.
>>
>>162327894
Akainu did his job.
>>
>>162327127
Typically One Piece fag deluding himself into thinking his shit comedy series is actually deep and meaningful.
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>>162329438
>his shit comedy series is actually deep and meaningful
I'm not sure if he realizes it or not but he's doing the opposite.
In both bleach and naruto the protagonists are bad guy being perceived as good guys(like most heroic figures through out history) so of course they'll condone stuff like genocide because it does them no harm.
While in OP the good guys are only accused of being bad when they're anything but, making them seem much more "generic" in a sense.
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>>162329783
>While in OP the good guys are only accused of being bad when they're anything but

I mean... The protagonist did cause a mass escape from the biggest prison in the world causing untold numbers of thieves, rapists, and murderers to be released onto the world.
>>
>>162327894
What wrong did Akainu do?
>>
>>162332030
Even beyond that, the strawhats are pretty atypical pirate crew. Kidds bounty was higher than luffys by literally being a terrorist with no goal.
>>
>>162332030
>The protagonist did cause a mass escape from the biggest prison in the world causing untold numbers of thieves, rapists, and murderers to be released onto the world.
so did Danny Phantom
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>>162327127
Funny thing. I remember clearly the ninjas exist as mediators. They kill other ninjas so the civilians in their countries don't have to fight in or be affected by wars.

>genocide
>people who are already dead
OK.

>muh luffy crew
>A thieve, a nigger, a morron, a furry, a mass murderer and a generalized criminal are gud guys. They din du nufin.
Ok.

Second commishill thread in 3 hours. Are the mods asleep?
>>
>>162332030
Blackbeard was doing the same thing at the same time, whether Luffy went there or not lots of them would have gotten out.
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>>162327127
95% of pirates are assholes who murder and steal shit. In fact, a large portion of the series is dedicated to Luffy defeating faggot tyrant pirates to liberate a country or town.
>>
>>162333428
wait who's the mass murderer?
Robin?
>>
>>162333554
Tyrants that are in some cases employed by the tyranical goverment who has it out for luffy&co for disrupting their perfect tyranical goverment. Remember how they nuked an antire island to oblivion because some of its inhabitants had read a histroy book they didn't want them to read? That tyranical goverment. There are bad people among the pirates sure, but we all know who the big bad of the series is. And it is worse by a looong mile from those individual pirates&crews, which are, again, sometimes even in the service of said goverment.
>>
Ichigo wins the award for the worst.
Almost no curiosity about what's really going on in his world. Fully content with preserving the status quo and letting the corruption he does know continue.
Although it's really Kubo who's to blame for poor world building and rarely following through with plot points. The worst case was nobody in the Vandenreich bringing up Mayuri's atrocities against quincy. In any logical world Ishida would have at least tried to snipe him.
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>>162332936
Yeah I thought it was hilarious when Kidd and Luffy interacted at all. Luffy doesn't like people who mindlessly go around slaughtering random villagers but was paling around with Kidd on Bubble Island.
>>
>>162327127
It was pretty funny that outside of the wealthy elite walled off Sereitei are a bunch of soul ghettos where powerless souls are forced to form fake families to survive, and this is supposed to be the "heaven" equivalent where good souls go when their body dies.

And Kubo never addressed that ever again because Yhwach was right.
>>
>>162334195
>Fully content with preserving the status quo and letting the corruption he does know continue.
Why not? He's already got a perfectly good set up with the shinigami as they are so why would he throw all that away for a bunch of poorfags he doesn't even know?
As long as the shinigami keep giving him bad guys to beat up so he can relieve his insecurities he's going to keep being their tool till they inevitably betray him(but he'll probably never find out about that anyway)
>>
>>162334746
>be lord of the jews
>try to take the afterlife back from the nippon nazis
>get betrayed by your son who happens to be the anti christ and your successor who happens to be gay for said anti christ
>be condemned to a fate worse than death for trying to save everyone
Being Yhwach is suffering
>>
What was Naruto's tax policy? How did he feel about globalization and immigration? How did he ensure everyone had access to the health care they needed and pay for constant property damage?
>>
>>162335295
>How did he ensure everyone had access to the health care they needed and pay for constant property damage?
These two aren't as important for a shinobi village due to everyone having superhuman abilities and healing magic.
damages should be much easier and quicker to repair meaning less payment and again, healing magic.
>>
>>162335295
He's the most powerful thing ever on his world and rivaled by an edgy shit that's obviously gay for him. He does whatever the fuck he thinks is best and everyone, everywhere goes along with it cause they can't do jack shit if he really, really wants something. After he dies, everything just goes back to being the same old petty shit.
>>
>>162333205
Danny released the ghosts accidentally, then worked towards putting them back.

Luffy did free those prisoners on purpose.
>>
>>162335978
>After he dies, everything just goes back to being the same old petty shit.

If that's the case, shouldn't they have just gone with Pain's plan? WMDs have proven to be very effective in maintaining world peace.
>>
>>162336044
Sand and Cloud still have jinchuuriki, and Cloud has a moonbusting cannon. They're ready for a post-Naruto era.
>>
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>>162336028
>>162333205
Why compare Luffy to Danny when he should be compared to Timmy Turner?
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>>162336028
>Luffy did free those prisoners on purpose
You're assuming he fully intends for hundreds of thousands of civilians to get murdered, robbed, raped etc and didn't just do it out of stupidity like everything he does.
>>
>>162336344
When the vice warden Hanyabal confronted Luffy about that, Luffy didn't give a single fuck.
Ultimately he is selfish. All of his good deeds have been for the sake of his personal friends or people he's taken a liking to.
Even sparing his foes isn't done out of a sense of morality. He just does it because he thinks letting them live with crushed dreams is a worse fate than death.
>>
>>162327183
>They are PIRATES
only in the most technical sense
literally half of all the "pirates" that you see never do anything worthy of being called pirates
>>
>>162327127
It was always an interesting thing to think about the politics of big shonens and how they might affect and reflect the societies in which they are most popular.

The Bleach thing isn't that accurate but yes, generally Naruto and Bleach have a far more statist politic than One Piece.
>>
>>162335295
>How did he feel about globalization and immigration?
Everybody must live together unless they are Ootsutsuki fucking shits.
>>
>>162335152
>ichigo is Yhwach's son
W-what
>>
>>162336885
>The Bleach thing isn't that accurate
How so?
>>
>>162327127
>>the good guys are people rebelling against the corrupt police state
>corrupt police state
Pirates are do genociding villages and attack everyone for money and fun.
>>
>>162334248
I wouldn't go that far. Luffy is no saint and he knows it. The other guy said it first, he released a whole bunch of thieves, rapists, murders and the like without a care in the world just to save his brother. He just wont let you pull that unnecessary shit when he's around. That type of freedom goes two ways. Kidd is free to act like a monster, just as Luffy is free to try and stop him.
>>
>>162337578
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhNR_MByVMk
>>
>>162327127
Daily reminder the big 3 are all shit. All three have horrible writing that started out so well, then degraded vastly over a short time. All three could be easily condensed into less than 100 episodes with actual coherent endings. All three are wasted potential. Keep arguing kiddos.
>>
>>162337741
What's your favorite anon?
>>
>>162327127
Stupidest char design ever
>>
>>162337168
He implied he used the almighty to set the future to one where Ichigo is born making him Ichigo's real mom/dad
>>
>>162337994
That's dumb. Controlling causation isn't the same as actual conception.
>>
>there are people who think One Piece is something more than just a happy go lucky adventure with a cool world design
>there are people who actually think it is a literary masterpiece
>there are people who actually think it has interesting well developed characters
>there are people who actually think it has good combat, skills, and powerups
>there are people who actually think the plot and arcs are complex
Laughin at these retards every day on /a/.
>>
>>162338102
conception isn't all there is to being the parent though.
>>
>>162338472
He didn't raise him either. Him controlling how and when events go into motion isn't the same as living through it. Besides, I dont think the big Y controls causation anyway. He just creates moments in time doesnt he? There's definitely a distinction between the two.
>>
>>162334746
>because Yhwach was righ
Yhwach was so right even Ichigo didn't bother trying to find fault in his motives because even he was aware there were none.
>>
>>162338587
>He didn't raise him either.
He quite literally raised Ichigo from the shadows
>Him controlling how and when events go into motion isn't the same as living through it
You do realize part of him is literally one with Ichigo right? nobody besides White/Zangetsu could ever understand Ichigo better than Yhwach.
>>162338587
>Besides, I dont think the big Y controls causation anyway. He just creates moments in time doesnt he?
The way the almighty was described was definitely closer to causality manipulation.
>>
Kaguya's only mistake was not getting a abortion.
>>
>>162339069
>every conflict in naruto was because Ashura and Indra couldn't stop being autistic
>>
>>162337382
The Gotei 13 aren't really 'the good guys', they are relatively 'gray' with their morals. The best arc is literally fighting against them to save Rukia. As the show goes on, yes they become more humanized but the actual Gotei 13 and Soul Society structure is portrayed somewhat negatively.
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>>162339355
>', they are relatively 'gray' with their morals
They're not gray either.
taking advantage of humanity for several millenia to keep themselves in power just puts them in the black territory.
>The best arc is literally fighting against them to save Rukia.
and this is wrong too
>>
>>162338977
Are you sure about that last bit? Its been awhile and his real power was always pretty vague, but I though he was able to manipulate moments in time. That's totally different from causation, which is more plucking fates strings than changing the fabric.

As far as him always being with Ichigo that's still not raising him. Ishin raised ichigo into who he is today, not ywach.
>>
>>162333554
>Crocodile the corrupt warlord employed by government
>Enel leader of skypia
>Lucci Government Assassin
>Moria warlord employed by government
>Doflamingo warlord of the sea
Most of the enemies in the first part of the grand line were backed by legitimate governments
>>
>>162339573
No, because most of them act begrundingly just as we do in the real world. Majority of the commanders are actually decent souls but the system is not flexible enough for them to express this.

What's the best arc then?
>>
>>162327127
>SS are the good guys
Aizen dindu nuffin wrong
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>>162339954
Also, only villains really want to 'overthrow' the current system despite nearly everyone recognizing its short comings.
>>
>>162339765
>>162333971
Shichibukai are such a stupid system, why does the government even bother with them? Most of them are selfish faggots that have the title so they can do shit that would normally put them in imperial down and most of them can't be trusted or relied on.
>>
>>162340276
Hence Fujitora
>>
>>162340044
>Aizen dindu nuffin wrong
Well he did rape little girls like Rangiku but so did Griffith so I suppose he gets a pass

>>162340056
Aizen wanted to be in charge of the system nothing really confirmed he wanted to overthrow it.
Yhwach kinda did but he just wanted everything to go back to the good old days when the jews weren't being hunted down and hollows supposedly weren't a thing.
>>
>>162340276
>and most of them can't be trusted or relied on
they prioritize manpower(despite recruiting losers like Buggy)
>>
>>162340346
Both were depicted as irredeemable villains who had to be locked to chairs or wiped out of existence by children ex machinas.

Which is why I would say Kubo's world is relatively on the side of authorities, despite recognizing their flaws.
>>
>>162340409
>Which is why I would say Kubo's world is relatively on the side of authorities, despite recognizing their flaws.
Even though the novels make it clear soul society are the bad guys?
I mean sure, they weren't written by Kubo himself but he did oversee them and give details for what plot points he wanted addressed.
>>
>>162340383
>needs manpower
>recruits a bunch of jobbers that would never help them unless their title was a risk
Out of the original 7 only Mihawk and Kuma did anything, the rest were off jerking on their own islands and Jinbe was in jail.
>>
>>162340581
I thought it was more like "there's no good guy here. Afterlife is just bad fuckin news."
>>
>>162339765
I always found it weird how Enel was never affiliated with anything bigger despite being such a major villain.
I know it goes against his god sthick but you'd think he would be part of the sichibukai or in alliance with a yonkou but no, he was just chillin on his island
>>162339954
>What's the best arc then
substitute shinigami obviously.
soul society is trash
>>
>>162327127
>People call themselves pirates
>They don't rape
>Rulers of the world AKA Celestial Dragons rape
What kind of backwards world is this?
>>
>>162338977
>>He didn't raise him either.
>He quite literally raised Ichigo from the shadows
could've sworn aizen did that exact same thing too
>>
>>162340581
Who reads the Bleach novels?
No offense but the whole question is only interesting in so far as it tells us something about the implicit, probably not even truly intended (at least not in Kishimoto or Kubo's cases) biases they have about the structures of society. Extracannonical material does not interest me because neither series were written well enough for me to analyze on that level. I will take your word for it though.

>>162340846
Ok, I barely cared.
>>
>>162340862
wait which celestial dragon raped who?
are you talking about the Doffy Viola thing?
>>
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>>162340658
>Out of the original 7 only Mihawk and Kuma did anything
fuck, mihawk didn't even do that much, he close to never answered the govt.'s summons and even then he just did it cause he was bored. i think out of all the warlords he has done the absolute least in terms of being involved with any world affairs or story progression. the most effort we've seen him put into anything is following a random pirate ship all the way to the middle of the fucking eats blue just to destroy a ship he already destroyed
>>
>>162340884
Yhwach and Aizen are the same person.
>>
>>162341152
yea he didn't do much like the rest of them but at least he's fucking around and destroying pirate ships which is what the government wants I guess.
>>
>>162335978
>No homos allowed in the ninja world
>two star crossed lover fags have to give in to literal stalkers to pass genetics.
>probably have to fuck each other via shadow clone in the woods so no one finds out.

Naruto x Sasuke = suffering.
>>
>>162337822
Probably Yuri on Ice or Boku no Pico
>>
>>162340862
Kinda like the real world, don't you think?
>>
>>162340846
>I always found it weird how Enel was never affiliated with anything bigger despite being such a major villain.
Nobody knew about the Sky Islands and Enel had no reason to go down to the Grand Line so I don't understand how you could think he had any connection to anything outside of the Sky Islands.
>>
>>162341234
>at least he's fucking around
yea the others really only do just jerk off on their islands for most of the story
>>
>>162327127
>Soul Society based on lies
>Noble families all have a great sin
>Soul king is a person they betrayed and is pretty much dead
>>
>>162340884
>could've sworn aizen did that exact same thing too
Aizen just took credit for his little science experiment failing horribly
>>
>>162341135
Boa and her sisters were gangraped and passed around as party favors. That fat fuck in saboady abducts women to rape them if he feels like it. There are many such examples. Sad!
>>
>>162341926
All I remembered being mentioned was slavery but I suppose Boa getting raped by fat old men is a plausible conclusion
>>
>>162341926
Remember that one CD who had like 30 wives and told the guards to get rid of 3 of them because he was bored of them?
>>
>>162342099
living like a true sandnigger
>>
>>162340409
>who had to be locked to chairs
Even if Aizen did something worth redeeming himself, no sane person is ever gonna let an immortal with illusion abilities run around just because they assume he might be a nice guy(unless it's Naruto)
>wiped out of existence by children ex machinas
He wasn't wiped out of existence the kid just became his vessel
>>162340712
There are no good guys but soul society seem to be the worst by far judging by everything they've done.
>>
>>162341152
Mihawk's supposed to be a neutral party so he can't just go around fulfilling every duty he's given as that goes against his character.
The only real reason to have him as a warlord is so he can be monitored or so he's less likely to end up being an enemy.
>>
>>162339765
And so?
Real life pirates nowadays and in history have always been backed by powerful families that formed the government.

Even US funded local race-based militia groups worldwide to rob and cause unrest.
>>
>>162342824
Nothing stick out like Afghanistan however.
A former country that is controlled by a powerful regional foreign Arab-only terrorist group funded by White House and trained in warfare by US armed force is then kicked out and replaced with an alliance of weak local subservient drug lords who employ and rape little boys openly.
>>
>>162327894
On the contrary, Madara and Yhwach were actively trying to disrupt peace and stability so they can force their ideology onto the world without regard for the innocent lives lost. Akainu, on the other hand, is trying to maintain peace and stability by getting rid of pirates and succeeded in ending a dangerous bloodline for good. He did everything right. The World Government, like OP said, is a corrupt police state. But the concept behind the Marines is just fine.
>>
>>162337168
Not his real father. But Yhwach made sure the future where Ichigo exists would come to pass so he's his "father" in the same way God is our father because he made us. By that logic, Yhwach is the father of every Quincy too since they only exist thanks to him.
>>
The revolutionary army led by Dragon are the only good guys.
>>
>>162340409
I think Kubo is more on the side of peace and order. The status quo keeps all three worlds under some measure of peace and order in a fine cosmic balance. Aizen and Yhwach wanted to fuck up that balance to suit their ideologies. Aizen may have wanted to end the SK's rule while Yhwach may have wanted to build his own Israel. But either way, their actions were in the way of order and stability so they were depicted as villains. I think Kubo's going for that angle more than him supporting a borderline tyrannical police state.
>>
>>162346379
>On the contrary, Madara and Yhwach were actively trying to disrupt peace and stability so they can force their ideology onto the world without regard for the innocent lives lost.
That's pretty much irrelevant to Yhwach since he'll be reviving everyone who died anyway.
Killimg him just results in everyone he and the quincy have killed being condemned to the same fate as him and the soul king.
>>
>>162346554
Ichigo's mom must be regretting ever having given birth to the little prick now
>>
>>162346379
>Akainu, on the other hand, is trying to maintain peace and stability by getting rid of pirates and succeeded in ending a dangerous bloodline for good. He did everything right. The World Government, like OP said, is a corrupt police state. But the concept behind the Marines is just fine.
so what you'e saying is because the antagonists are the ones who have established the rules in OP, it makes everything Akainu does right?
>>
>>162327894

>Madara

Madara was as mere peon to Black Zetsu. As comparison, in today real life is like some ditactors being manipulated by demons or Satan the whole time.

>Yhwach

Yhwach was devil himself, and wanted a political incorrect 'peaceful' end, also wanted revenge to save his "race", hes reminiscing of Hitler. Also as Hitler he gets defeated besides his temporal powers.
>>
>>162346463
>The status quo keeps all three worlds under some measure of peace and order in a fine cosmic balance.
If that were true irregularities like hollows wouldn't exist. It's a wonky system but the most beneficial for the shinigami.
It's why every other race is constantly at their throats.
>>
>>162333428
You have to go back, mongrel
>>
>>162346752
>and wanted a political incorrect 'peaceful' end
The fuck does that even mean?
What's politically incorrect about returning the world back to eden?
>Madara was as mere peon to Black Zetsu
That's really the only reason he's "wrong"
Other than the whole "turn everyone into plants" thing there was really nothing wrong with infinite tsukuyomi.
>>
>>162346778
Good point. But I mean, better the evil you know than the one you don't. Aizen and Yhwach's worlds may be better than the current one or it could be far worse. Either way, I understand the Shinigami wanting to keep things this way. It does benefit them, but more importantly, the system's been there for centuries. It works. Humans are happy, Shinigami are happy, even Hollows are somewhat content. Aizen and Yhwach's plans would've fucked all that up and maybe result in something far worse. If the villains sat down and peacefully explained their plan maybe conflict could have been avoided.
>>
>>162346872
>There is nothing wrong with forcefully enslaving millions of Ninja who just before his resurrection actually got their shit together and formed an alliance

Between Madara and Ōnoki I'd pick Ōnoki every time.

There is nothing right with an obsessed genocidal maniac who has his boyfriend's face stitched on his chest.
>>
>>162346872
>What's politically incorrect about returning the world back to eden?

I'm not that anon. But I think it might have something to do with the fact that he'll probably genocide the other races to make the perfect Quincy utopia. I doubt there's a place for Shinigami, Hollows and even normal humans in his new world. Unless you're a pureblooded Quincy you're fucked. Masaki and Katagiri both died thanks to Yhwach's pureblood fetish. So yeah, overall it has more to do with the 'genocide' part of the plan than the 'returning to eden' part.
>>
>>162346959
I don't know, anon. Despite the shit he pulled, Madara ultimately had his heart in the right place. I think he genuinely did want peace not power. But he's an Uchiha so the way they do things is skewed in a very emotional direction. Couple that with the death of his brother and losing the Hokage election to his gay crush probably drove him off the deep end. Zetsu putting funny ideas in his head didn't help either. Onoki, on the other hand, was a genuinely power hungry dude who wanted his village at the top and the others crushed beneath his feet. He only changed after Gaara did his own talk no jutsu on him.
>>
>>162337578
Kill yourself akainu
>>
I hate how Naruto wanted Obito to remove his mask but not the ANBU who do shady shit for "peace".

Freedom is the essence of the One Piece universe. Every societal structure in OP is plagued with a corrupt elite that only a truly free crew like Luffy's can dismantle.

Of course this doesn't resonate with most people because they want to be protected and live in "freedom" (Marines protecting civilians) while secretly admiring those who are actually free and unconstrained (Pirates), and also because we live in the most secure, most restricting and "peaceful" times in human history, all thanks to our truly free ancestors who actually committed both good and bad in order to build our modern "comfy" society.
>>
>>162346910
>If the villains sat down and peacefully explained their plan maybe conflict could have been avoided.
I bet the first soul king tried something like that and ended up getting back stabbed and used as a battery for centuries.
>Humans are happy
tell that to the slumfolk of rukongai
>Shinigami are happy
no shit sherlock, that's the point of the system.
>even Hollows are somewhat content.
They really don't have any choice but to enjoy living in an empty desert for eternity(or at least until the shinigami die out like Aizen said)
>>
>>162347140
Luffy and his crew represent anarchy more than anything. They don't bow down to any authority. They do as they wish. Of course, they're not cruel nor evil so their actions end up helping people. But a force like the Marines is necessary, especially in a world like One Piece, where you have monsters like Big Mom or Kaidou or Doffy terrorizing the populace on a daily basis. The SHs may be good guys, but they can't be everywhere battling evil all the time. You need people like Marines to keep chaos at bay. Luffy and the SHs represent the "good" side of chaos and freedom. People like Blackbeard and Doffy represent the "bad" side where doing whatever the fuck you want freely fucks other people over. I doubt the Marines will be gone by the end of OP. They are necessary. Not everyone is like the SHs. And not every Marine is a corrupt elite.
>>
>>162347236
I think most "good" pirates and marines are gonna unify as a single force by the end.
All that'll be left are evil pirates and corrupt former marines becoming pirates ala the crusaders
>>
>>162347102
He could have accommodated his plans to attain his peace. Especially after seeing the whole Ninja world allying against him.

He wanted to be the SO6P so bad that he even planted a bomb in Obito's chest to make sure it doesn't fail.

He could have let Obito remain as the Sage and let the Flower bloom, but no, being the supreme ninja is the most important, so kill your only ally in the war and get backstabbed by your puppet.

Not to forget he planned Rin's death.
>>
>>162346439
I'm sure there are more than a few people who signed up with the Revolutionaries for the promise of power more than desire for freedom. If Dragon succeeds, the Revolutionaries will be the new greatest power in the world. People like Sabo, Ivankov, Kuma and Koala are genuinely good people. But there's bound to be some people like Teach among them too who are just waiting until they seize power so they can have a bite of the pie too.
>>
>>162346966
>I'm not that anon. But I think it might have something to do with the fact that he'll probably genocide the other races to make the perfect Quincy utopia. I doubt there's a place for Shinigami, Hollows and even normal humans in his new world. Unless you're a pureblooded Quincy you're fucked. Masaki and Katagiri both died thanks to Yhwach's pureblood fetish. So yeah, overall it has more to do with the 'genocide' part of the plan than the 'returning to eden' part.
of course there won't be a place for shinigami.
they're all good for nothing scum.
as for hollows they wouldn't exist in a world without death to begin with.
And without hollows quincy are no longer necesary either.
all that remains are a bunch of immortal humans like what "heaven" is supposed to be.
>>
>>162327127
The Hokage is an elected official, and he doesn't even control the Land of Fire.
>>
>>162346959
>There is nothing right with an obsessed genocidal maniac who has his boyfriend's face stitched on his chest.
maybe not but there's everything right with the matrix relative to the shithole known as life.
>>
>>162340581
Narita seems to somewhat end up contradicting what the original author does sometimes, notably with the Fate novels he's doing (even if Nasu insists it's fine because of alternate universes). Won't be surprised if it's the same way with Bleach.
>>
>>162347444
>Narita seems to somewhat end up contradicting what the original author does sometimes,
Only when he has free reign like with strange fake and the earlier bleach kenpachi novels.
The novels he's currently working on are actually meant to fit in with the canon of the story and are being overseen by Kubo.
Besides, the shinigami being the real bad guys has been a thing in the fandom since way back so it really hasn't come out of nowhere like some want to believe.
>>
>>162347362
>elected
>first Hokage was self-titled
>second Hokage was the brother of the first, given title through nepotism
>third one was a student of the second, nepotism again
>fourth one was a student of the third, nepotism in action again
>fifth one was a grand-daughter of the first, who could've guessed
>sixth one was a student of the fourth, catching up on the tradition of teacher/student nepotism again
>seventh one is the son of the fourth
>all of the other villages don't even seem to bother and just pass it down the single bloodline, as seen by everyone looking like the previous fucking kage
If it was intended to be an elected title then so far they've been doing the worst fucking job at making it that way.
>>
>>162347628
>If it was intended to be an elected title then so far they've been doing the worst fucking job at making it that way
They're simply placing a monarchy under the guise of a democracy.
Pretty clever all things considered.
>>
>>162347628
I mean, they literally have a vote. No shit they're going to vote for the greatest person of their generation.
>>
>>162347737
The Land of Fire isn't a democracy. It's controlled by feudal lords. The ninja villages are probably the only places that actually vote for their leaders.
>>
>>162347628
>>162347737
>>162347362
>>162347784

The Kage isn't a democracy or intended to be one, it's a halfway between meritocracy and oligarchy with the jonin, elders and daimyo choosing the Hokage from a list of accomplished/recommended ninja.
>>
>>162347300
The thing with Madara is that he's become cynical as fuck after all the shit he's been through. I still think he really does want peace though. But he probably thought this "alliance" won't last long after he falls. They'll probably squabble over who gets the lion's share of the plunder and devolve back into war. Of course he's wrong, but that's the sort of shit that happened during Madara's childhood, it's understandable why he'd be cynical. The Infinite Tsukuyomi was the best bet of actual, everlasting peace. Too bad he was only a pawn for Kaguya's return.
>>
>>162347628
That's still a far cry from "military dictatorship". They don't even control the country, just the village that only exists to PROTECT the country.
>>
>>162347784
>>162347823
>vote
Where do you people get that from? The only "voting" that ever takes place is the council of elders appointing the kage on a dedicated meeting.
>>
>>162348075
That's a vote, man. See >>162347827
>>
>>162347784
>greatest person of the generation always happens to be a student or even a relative of the previous kage
>7 fucking times in a row
Sure is fair play here. I wonder why there wasn't a single Uchiha kage if that were the case.
>>
>>162348112
The Uchiha were a family police force. Now that's nepotism.
>>
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>>162348098
Why the fuck do you insist on calling it a vote? No actual voting takes place. There are no candidates and no one actually votes. These two geezers just meet up in a shady room, listen to what their secret police has to say, listen to what the running hokage has to say, then tell you who the fuck is the next hokage.
>>
>>162348143
It is actually ostracizing. I mean look at this poor Uchiha kid suffering.
>>
>>162348242
But there ARE candidates. Ep 18 of Boruto has Kiba jokingly say he stepped aside to allow Naruto to become Hokage, and then Shino tells him that he wasn't a candidate.
>>
>>162348301
>Boruto
>>
>>162348320
>hurr durr
>>
The important question here is who had the best girls in the series.
>>
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>>162348242
The councils were larger than just four people. This was Kumo's council, for example.
>>
>>162338196
>People thinking Naruto is like Dragon Ball

kek
>>
>>162348642
>Still basically three people at the main table
>The rest of the audience is probably reporters and little shits taking notes
I'll give it to them, they're trying to make their shit public, at least.
>>
>>162348685
>all have headbands
Yeah, "reporters".
>>
>>162348696
There would be ninja reporters, wouldn't there?
>>
>>162348741
There is no American ninja village in the setting, so no paparazzi.
>>
>>162329783
>naruto
>okay with Genocide
Have you ever fucking seen Naruto? The last thing Naruto would be okay with is fucking Genocide. Ichigo wouldn't be okay with it either.
>>
>>162349412
I was referring to the leaf village and seiretei as a whole. I know Naruto probably wouldn't be okay with it but Ichigo would since he grew indifferent to the lives of people he didn't know.
>>
>>162335295
>What was Naruto's tax policy?

A percentage of the big bux his ninja army brings in from missions goes to the general upkeep and defense of the village

>>162335295
>How did he feel about globalization and immigration?

It's the village HIDDEN in the leaves. I don't think I need to elaborate

>>162335295
>How did he ensure everyone had access to the health care they needed and pay for constant property damage?

Orochimaru probably still has those documents on how to hack wood-style dna into people...
>>
>>162333554
Luffy and his crew are revolutionaries who call themselves pirates.
>>
>>162336766
It's good for the government for them to be called pirates and not revolutionaries. Makes it easier to lie about them.
>>
>>162350256
I sometimes also like to call myself vegetarian when I am frying up a nice steak.
>>
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>>162350447
Yang Wenli go home, you're drunk.
>>
>>162333894
Zoro. He killed 100 bounty hunters at Whiskey peak.
>>
>>162350202
>It's the village HIDDEN in the leaves. I don't think I need to elaborate
Karui and Temari immigrated from other villages, Mitsuki was accepted by Konoha as a citizen, despite being son of one of the largest criminals in history (apparently Naruto personally covered the fact to let him live in Konoha). He seems to be open enough to immigration.
>>
Naruto and Bleach use black and white moral systems, there are good and bad people and they belong to different camps (although in case of Naruto, there are good people and good people that hasn't been talked to enough to become good). One piece uses grey morals, anyone in any line of activity can be either nice person or an asshole and based on Luffy and his crew's approach to world affairs seems to promote egalitarianism overall, since none of them care if their actions may benefit or harm world as a whole, they just do what they want personally.
>>
>>162350936
in fairness every single one was in self defence
Zoro was minding his own business
>>
>>162340862
That would be real life.
>>
>>162340346
I thought Yhwach wanted to destroy the universe but replace it with a new one where entropy doesn't exist, which, while probably better than ours, isn't really something anyone can live in or even comprehend.
>>
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>>
>>162327127
One Piece
>open borders for Fishman Island
>open borders for Wano
>current arc is literally a racemixing communist's wet dream
>>
>>162340276
Real life pirates worked on a similar system
>>
>>162355038
wtf I hate oda now
>>
>>162349670
The leaf village as a whole was NOT okay with genocide either... the Uchiha Massacre was carried out by someone who was following orders from the top. You think if the other villagers heard that they'd be like 'Oh, haha, okay.'? Ichigo wouldn't be either... just because your indifferent to other people doesn't mean you'd be okay if they all were suddenly wiped out.
>>
>>162327127
Naruto
>MC wants the respect and recognition of other people and to get it, he'll aim for the hokage position
>prioritizes others' opinions about him to the point that it dictates his thoughts and actions
>praises about the MC's hard work also double as praises to the readers/watchers who're self-inserting as the MC
>>
>>162354773
>didn't read the thread: the post
At least put some effort into it next time.
>>
>>162354773
Pic unrelated, I guess. But One Piece is unironically one of the better shonens.
>>
>>162339765
Arlong' slave operation was backed and approved by the Marines as well.
The saboady slave auction had Tenryubito bidding.
>>
>>162340346
>he did rape little girls like Rangiku
Wasn't him, but his thugs.
>>
>>162340884
Aizen wanted to groom his soulmate.
>>
>>162356021
>Arlong' slave operation
I thought he had a protection racket
>>
>>162327183

shut up speedreader and person who never read oda interviews.
>>
>>162356382
He bribed the Marines directly and they pretended he didn't exist in return.
>>
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>>162338196
One Piece has a more horrific world than Berserk or even Fist of the North Star.
Imagine the life of a Skypiea under Enel, an entire society pretending to be happy worshipping Enel for fear that lightning would otherwise strike them down.
The world of One Piece is frightening, its grotesque. The genre would be horror but Oda understates it and juxtaposes it with happy go lucky adventurer protagonists and gorgeous drawings of beauty in the One Piece world.
>>
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Why was Weevil added to the story? What does he bring to the table justifying him being introduced at the same time as Luffy challenges Yonko?
>>
>>162327127
So what you are saying is that Oda is a cuck?
>>
>>162356495
I know, I was pointing out that he didn't engage in slavery
>>
>>162357527
A lot of characters post timeskip seem fucking pointless. Caribou is like a lazy attempt at another Buggy. Instead of developing Buggy's character he just introduces a new Buggy.
Weevil is the worst though. It's stupid that such a dumb character is related to Whitebeard.
>>
>>162357527
Weevil was probably added to keep the warlords from becoming a joke. The fucking guy has beaten Whitebeard's entire fleet by himself, it's pretty ridiculous.
>>
>>162357625
He enslaved Nami.
>>
>>162358287
Nami could have left whenever she wanted, but that would have meant abandoning the village
>>
>>162358567
>if you leave we'll kill your village.
>not enslaved.
>>
>>162359122
Not killed, they'd just still be under the protection racket, which Arlong was doing to the whole island anyway
>>
>>162356899
>One Piece has a more horrific world than Berserk
I sure as fuck hope this is copypasta
>>
A lot of big government cucks ITT,
>>
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>>162348112
>learn from the best
>become a best
wow such surprise

you really gonna contend hiruzen or minato weren't the best of their generation? Naruto is ninja jesus so he's also the best of his generation. The only questionable choices are Kakashi and maybe Tsunade, but Tsunade was a part of the Sanin and legit can contend with Jiraiya or Orochimaru.
>>
>>162347628
>first Hokage was self-titled
No he wasn't. Hashirama wanted for Madara to become hokage, it's the entirety of the village, including other Uchiha, and daimyo that rejected his proposition and chose him instead.
>>
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>>162359665
The godhand are small time compared to 800 years of horror with no signs of stopping..
>>
>>162355038

>Open borders

>communist's wet dream

Have you heard of the Berlin wall or North Korea?
>>
>>162360782
yeah slavery is tough compared to daily troll rape/birth you fucking retard
>>
>>162357868
>such a dumb character is related to Whitebeard.
Citation needed.
>>
>>162357527
>wanting setup's immediate payoff
>in one piece
This is a manga that made punchline six hundred chapters after the joke's setup.
>>
>>162327127
I really think Bleach had some of the worst morals. At least the government in Naruto is portrayed as caring about the people, and at least being semi-based on needing the love of the general population, plus the Kage isn't actually the leader of the country and mostly does paperwork. Bleach on the other hand is a highly repressive regime that subjugates everyone but the privileged few with enough spiritual pressure to join the military (usually as expendable fodder) and the military leader has been the same since its inception. Not even to mention that this same military leader has gotten everyone into trouble because of his pride multiple times. Anyone who wants to overthrow the soul society is totally justified.
>>
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>>162355038
>Whole Cake Island is a socialist pro-racemixing utopia
>get's culturally enriched by an illegal migrant who was supposed to be deported years ago
>>
>>162327183
Some of them, sure. However, despite being so cartoony and whimsical looking in appearance, One Piece probably has the darkest background of all three.

Civilians are slaughtered by the government to cover up ideas. People live their lives as slaves to a wealthy class that refuses the breath the same air as commoners, and will slaughter them without consequence. Single men/women are able to subjugate entire countries, erase memories, or trap heroes in decades worth of torment. Are all pirates good? No, most are pretty bad. However, there are a few (Shanks, Roger, Whitebeard, Luffy, all their crews, and some others) who see piracy as a way to be free, rather than using it as a way to be evil.
>>
>>162336028
Those prisoners may have been bad, but just like in the US... if the government abuses human rights to house them or convict them, they are allowed to go free.

Impel down was literally just a giant torture chamber. Very little of it beyond the walls and underwater nature of it were designed to keep people in. The lowest level was literally just a standard jail. Those were the worst guys. Upper level was filled with dozens of torture devices and people who got off on abusing prisoners.
>>
>>162361663
>At least the government in Naruto is portrayed as caring about the people
If genocide is your idea of caring.
>at least being semi-based on needing the love of the general population
The 'Will of Fire' is just propaganda bullshit used to justify the regime.
>plus the Kage isn't actually the leader of the country and mostly does paperwork
What ever you need to tell yourself.
>>
>>162362349
I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's not as bad as Bleach's government.
>>
>>162356899
sounds like north Korea
>>
>>162360533
>Tsunade was a part of the Sanin and legit can contend with Jiraiya or Orochimaru.

Yeah if they are handicapped
>>
>>162362398
Konoha not being as bad as the Soul Society is a completely different thing than Konoha being "a caring government" that "needs the love of the people" and has a supreme leader who "isn't actually the leader of the country and mostly does paperwork"

How can you write that shit and not instantly realize it's nonsensical propaganda?
>>
Naruto solos bleach and one piece verses with his hands behind his back
>>
>>162363182
k
>>
>>162363182
One piece, maybe, it does have much lower power creep, but Bleach got a bunch of conceptual superpowers, that can break even Naruto.
>>
>>162356899
This. Imagine being a citizen of Totland. You'd live in constant fear of a gigantic monster woman going on a rampage and inadvertently eating you alive at any time of any day. Then there's the annual soul offerings where you need to give her pieces of your literal soul to live there. Of course, you can leave. But in that case you're going to need to give up like half your lifespan. Then there's places like Sabaody where Celestial Dragons can rape people in broad daylight and be protected by a fucking Admiral. Yeah, I'd say he's just as bad as Berserk if not more even.
>>
>>162362761
Ignoring how ridiculous arguing this in depth about politics of fictional universes is, I meant those things relatively. The current government since the third hokage has been relatively caring towards its citizens. The hokage is usually chosen based on popular appeal in addition to strength, and he is not the political leader of the country. He's still not democratically chosen, has a high potential for being corrupt, and is generally kind of incompetent since he's mostly a political figure and is chosen based on strength and celebrity status.

The Soul Society openly employs psychopathic criminals in positions of power, turns a blind eye to higher ranked members committing any number of crimes against less important members, jails people for life for thought crimes, is ruled by one person who has no desire or need to appeal to the people, hoards wealth and gives none of it to the ghettos around it, has a general attitude of "sentence to death first and ask questions later", and probably countless other things I'm not even remembering. Naruto is a better version of a fairly standard feudal sort of government, Bleach is far worse. I'm not saying either of them are good.
>>
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>>162363599
>>162356899
Viva la revolution
>>
>>162363743
The revolutionaries might also not be as perfect and moral as you think, anon. Sure, they're going up against a corrupt, decadent government so they're the lesser evil. But there's bound to be rapists, murderers and thugs who joined up with the Revolutionaries to avoid going to jail and for a chance at attaining some power. People like Blackbeard basically. Dragon, Sabo and the top guys are good. The Revolutionaries at the bottom might just be your good old regular thug on the street.
>>
>>162363558
Wrong , bleach characters are too slow to react to naruto and he can disintegrate/seal them
>>
>>162334195
Too be fair, he's 15 and had no ambitions besides kicking some bad ghost from time to time.
Most people wouldn't immediatelly start a revolution when confronted with some corrupt government, even if they don't like it. And he never actively promoted the status quo (and in fact helped to change it to a degree).
He was actually a pretty nice MC back then, beofre he was turned into boring hero guy by Kubo, and the final arc was the worst.
Bleach should have just ended the way the animu did.
>>
>>162348659
Not the guy who made that post but I fail to see how, in any way, that was implied. Where the fuck did you get that from?
>>
>>162327127
Why is his hair blonde and why does he have wrong swords with him. For such a good artist, you can tell he gave literally no fucks about One Piece itself.
>>
>>162334195
>The worst case was nobody in the Vandenreich bringing up Mayuri's atrocities against quincy.
This, I thought they were going for a grey vs grey conflict when that one Aizen-lookalike made his speech about how "war happens when both sides are justice". But nope, all of the Stern Ritters were depicted as selfish evil bastards who enjoyed killing and never brought up any of the crimes that the Shinigami committed against their people.
Would have been nice if there had been a scene in which someone like Colonel Sanders gave a speech telling their version of the Thousand Year Blood War and how from their point of view the Shinigami are bloody tyrants trying to preserve a corrupt status quo.
>>
>>162361663
Bleach doesn't have any morals present in its story. Ichigo's arm can be summed up as: Quit being a moral fag and just kill the enemy. Empathizing with the enemy and understanding their motives won't win battles.

Overthrowing Soul Society was not justified because the villains wanted to abolish the feudal system to install themselves as God Emperor of the Cosmos who rule for life.
>>
>>162365339
because it's bad
>>
>>162365941
That's because being a giant moral fag with a massive hero complex gets you nowhere in Bleach. If anything, acting like a shonen hero with morals is the fastest way to get killed by Ywach, or Aizen.
>>
>>162334195
>>162365941
Just like RL.
>>
>>162340276
Look up "Privateers".
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