>There are people on /a/ RIGHT NOW who don't think Fate/Zero

>>162156309
You know it's true, Urobutcher does Fate better than Nasu.

>>162156371
>>162156309
The concept of the fate, can be done better by anyway.

>>162156426
What?

So if Fate is Japan's Star Wars, is F/Z the phantom menace?

>>162156426
>>162156492
anyone*

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>>162156232
Agreed. It's pretty much the only entry in the series that isn't self-insert fanservicey weebtrash.

Fate/Zero is ART. Fate/Apo, Stay Night, Prisma Illya etc. are PRODUCTS. That is the difference. FZ is on a higher level of existence than anything else in the series, it's almost unfair to compare it to them; it's like comparing a tiger to a house cat. Urobutcher should honestly just take over the series at this point.

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Proof.

Anybody can do fate better than Nasu desu.

>>162156537

fz is ep7

>>162156609
Wrong, Apocrypha is shit.

>>162156685
Yeah alright I'll give you that one.

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>>162156537
Fate (Fate/UBW/HF) is Harmony in Ultraviolet, F/Z is Ravedeath 1972.

>>162156603
Fluffy Shirou a shit

>>162156232
Illya is.

>>162156750
Fuck off footfag

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Gilgamesh can't beat Objects.

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>>162156232

>>162156871
KIMI TO

>>162156871
Unironically this

>>162156829
No need to be a footfag for this. It has plot, it has PLOT. Characters are more likeable, cute and they don't have overcomplicated asspulls to explain x or y.

>>162156603
Everything there is true though.

Strange Fake will be the best when ufotable animates it in 202!

>>162156232
Fate/Zero cured my insomnia.

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>>162156871
The only acceptable choice.

>>162156232
Probably because Fate is easily one of the dullest franchises in the history of
anime.

Perhaps the die was cast when Urobuchi vetoed the idea of KinoAni producing the
series; he made sure the series would never be mistaken for a work of art that
meant anything to anybody. Just ridiculously profitable cross-promotion for his
VN. The Fate series might be self-insert (or not), but it’s certainly the
anti-Madoka series in its refusal of wonder, beauty and excitement. No one
wants to face that fact.

>But at least the VN are good though!
NO!

The writing is dreadful; the VN was terrible. As I read, I noticed that every
time a character went for a walk, the author wrote instead that the character
"散歩に行く。"

I began marking on the back of an envelope every time that phrase was repeated.
I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was
incredulous. Urobuchi's mind is so governed by cliches and dead metaphors that
he has no other style of writing. Later I read a lavish, loving review of Fate
by the same J. K. Rowling. She wrote something to the effect of, "If these kids
are playing Fate at 11 or 12, then when they get older they will go on to read
Harry Potter." And she was quite right. She was not being ironic. When you
play "Fate" you are, in fact, trained to read J. K. Rowling.

Anon, F/Z wasn't good.

Most of the cast was wasted, being non-characters that were only there to die, or had potential that withered due to all the focus being on Kerry and Waver + Rider. Urobuchi is a hack whose tendencies and fetish for muh suffering and conflict drag down his works. He made some decent works but made some mediocre shit too.

His Saber was completely OOC, being muh chivalry and honor despite the fact that she was pretty close to Kerry in her methods in her life and being nothing like that in F/SN or when she was alive. She was basically hamfisted into being some honorfag idealistic bitch so she could be a strawman that gets btfo'd by kerry and rider.

HFH was wasted, Kayneth was wasted, Tokiomi was a non-character, Maiya just existed. Uryuu was just a for the lulz evil guy, even if Gilles was cool.

The F/Z anime was fun to watch, but that's more Ufo having decent animation, a god tier soundtrack and the shallow cast being much more acceptable in an anime that only needs to present a bit of most of the characters. but I wish they animated the super edge hamburger with the taste of murder fitting Kerry's taste scene for the lulz.

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>>162156232
wow who would've thought that if the prequel is outsourced to an actual professional scriptwriter to make the story in stead of a amateur porn game dev it will be much better?
nevertheless peak of heap of shit is not exactly where you want to be anyway

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>>162156871
When will get an another Carnival Phantasm? The closest thing we can get is SF's credit page in manga.

>>162157179
Stephen king is shit though.

>>162156603
You realize the middle is a mistranslation right?

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>>162157179

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>>162157518

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>>162157334
Might be better if we not get another CP. I feel like it will just be a FGO wankfest at this point now

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>>162156871
only comfy show

>>162156232

I played the VN and found it pretty fun but I admit I enjoyed Zero more. I suppose that makes me a pleb but I just can't help how I feel.

Case Files is the only peace of Fate media I look forward to these days anyway, got pretty tired of grail wars

>>162156871

/thread

>>162156232
I just enjoy Arturia suffering

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>>162156232
Fate/Zero is second best to Heaven's Feel.

>>162156871
/thread

>>162156871
>tfw Zerobabies are all secondaries so they will never experience CP in all it's glory

>>162156232
The only good thing to come out of it was the first ED.

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>>162158549
>experience CP in all its glory

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>>162156232
The peak of the entire Fate franchise is this.

>>162158549
>so they will never experience CP in all it's glory
I sure hope so

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>>162158280
Not OP but i find it hard to pick between the two.
They're too different but i feel like Zero made better use of the Holy War them while HF had a better story and themes.

>>162157179
>kyoanus
>producing high art

Kyoukai no Kanata killed any claims they have to artistry.

>>162156537
Fate/Zero is The Empire Strikes Back. Some people like the first entry better, but everyone who knows where it's at knows Zero is peak Fate

>>162158549
Sick fuck

>>162160012
But anon, Empire Strikes Back is inferior to A New Hope.

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>>162156232
I think it but everytime I say it the fanboys defending Nasu and HackMoon jump out of their waifuposting general to tell me that Kerry is a bad character because he made bad decisions, how Shirou's autism about swords is the pinnacle of philosophy and how vagina=different mollusks is masterful writing

I've given up, trying to convince them that they're wrong is harder than convincing TM to finally release the Tsukihime remake

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>>162160566
No one thinks Kerry is a ''bad'' character, he's just a dumbed down Shirou and zerofags will bust in and start jerking him off because he wears a trenchcoat and fedora like themselves. Fate/zero, like most Fate spinoffs not written by Nasu, end up literally being about servants fighting and EPIC moments with nothing else to them which results in just an average action anime with nothing to discuss and nothing to contribute to nasuverse lore.

>>162160945

>he's just a dumbed down Shirou

What?

They both had the childish superhero dream but that's about it.

>>162159673
The Holy Grail War and Servants are fucking trash, and FSN deals with it masterfully by baiting the reader with that premise, and then making Heaven's Feel completely take apart the HGW as a concept, while Servants become nearly irrelevant.
Fate as a whole has steadily become worse the more it fell into the trap of lazily being tied to the concept of Servants for easy money, without having to put as much thought into building an original story and characters.

>>162160945

Dude Kerry saw in the grail trip how his philosophy was flawed from the beggining and how all he fought all his life for was for a line of thought that if taken to an extreme would have wiped humanity. He accepted it, resigned and decided to make at least some good with what was left of his life. Picked up Shirou and told him how he wanted to be a hero and how it was actually impossible. His character had a conclusion.

Then Shirou picks up that ideology despite being warned and does NONE of the reflection, canonically doesn't loses because the plot demands it, and actually makes it all "admirable" despite even having his own self from the future come back to kill him(self) because of how wrong and full of shit he actually was.

Archer>Kerry>Shirou

Also
>just an average action anime with nothing to discuss and nothing to contribute to nasuverse lore
Now I know you're fucking baiting. Expanding the characters of Saber, Kotomine and Gil, Tohsaka's father and how the sisters got separated and also expanding upon Kerry which is only a flashback in SN is no minor thing. Now, if you don't like it because it doesn't conform to your idea of what the characters were is one thing, but you can't say it has nothing of relevance just because you personally dismissed it.

Go back to your contrarian echo chamber and post about how Heaven's Feel is the best route since it's the one animeonly fags don't know about yet. Best route was UBW by the way

>>162158549
>they will never experience CP in all it's glory
Huh? What's stopping them from watching Prisma Illya just because they watched Zero first?

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Can we all agree that all the bad shit that happened in the Zero and Stay Night is all this asshole's fault?

He's the one who corrupted the Grail in the first place and he knew of the calamity that would occur if someone used the Grail to make a wish yet he didn't fucking care.

He lied to Kiritsugu and didn't tell him that the Grail was a WMD. How did he not fucking expect Kiritsugu to reject the Grail?

Then he sends Ilya to fight in the 5th War and lies to her that Kiritsugu abandoned her for Shirou and forces her to fight and die while he sits in his castle with his thumb up his ass.

Fuck Acht. There should be a sequel after Hollow Ataraxia with Acht as the main antagonist where Shirou gets to kill this bastard.

>>162161781
>canonically doesn't loses because the plot demands it
You playing the VN with a flowchart? The Tiger Dojos heavily outnumber the endings.

>>162161996
He just really wanted to win.
And when your skillset doesn't really lend itself to anything other than building lolis, well...

>>162161996
Acht, Tokiomi, Norikata, and Souren are the quintessential examples of how shitty Nasuverse magi are. Obsession with the root, alien mindset, and basically sociopaths by muggle standards.

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>>162156232

>He hasn't seen Fate/Strange Fake

Narita is much superior to Urobuchi/Nasu and its showing on his Fate series.

>>162161781
>having his own self from the future come back to kill him(self) because of how wrong and full of shit he actually was
His future self had lost sight of what he wanted to do and just got swallowed up by the despair. The ideal of just wanting to save everyone was a beautiful and admirable ideal to pursue, but one that would inevitably lead to alot of suffering. The difference between UBW Shirou and Archer is that Shirou got to face Archer, which meant he had to face what his ideals would lead him to, and as a result, not fall to despair because of having expected a different outcome. Archer before that just couldn't accept that what he had done was what he actually wanted. Even in F/sn he was struggling against what he actually wanted, going out of his way to exclaim that even he felt that the ideal was beautiful. Even when fighting Shirou he couldn't deny it.
Stop being fucking retarded and pay attention to the route.

>>162156721
What an obscure thing to say on /a/. I mean, I got it, but I can't imagine that anyone else did.

>>162157179
Fucking /lit/. Don't you have piss bottles to empty?

>>162162231
>much superior
>Nothing Happens: The Series
Narita is just going to introduce a shit ton of characters and wait till the last moment to kill any of them off and wrap everything up with some half-assed ending.

>>162162196

It's really fucked up, and with the way they all are, there's no chance for real change in the system to make magi more humane and slightly less self-centered assholes.

>>162161996
UBW S2 booklet translation from BL.
"So Einzbern were set up 1 CE.
The apprentices' plan was to make their master. So then the master they would have made would have Heaven's Feel. To use an analogy, if you made a Ryougi you'd have made someone with Mystic Eyes of Death Perception.
Went on for 900 years full of failure. At the end they made Justicia, a homunculus.
Justicia was an accident. When they made her they didn't expect anything but they got something with the talent of their master or even above it.
Apprentices were displeased, cos even if she could use Heaven's Feel for a bit, she was a mutation, an accident.
But whatevs they got their Third Magic right? Or at least proof of it.
So going on with this theory, they decided to mass produce homunculi thinking that if they got Justicia, it'd be a matter of course until they got something better than her. So they were tired and they made Acht who would be the "father" of all the homunculi.

The problem with Justicia was that she took several years just to "save" one person. So it was pretty impossible to "save" everyone cough shirou kotomine cough. While Justicia didn't age, she was incredibly weak and couldn't leave the castle. Basically a stiff breeze would kill her.
Also her intelligence and mind didn't age at all so for her it was like "seeing the same day for eternity." She never grew.
And if she went outside to actually learn stuff, she would be basically committing suicide cos stiff breeze.
So they made something that exceeded humanity but couldn't save humanity, either way they reached the limit of their ability.
So some apprentices left, some committed suicide.

Either way the homunculi who were left behind followed the mission. Save humanity, make a miracle reappear.
All homunculi made after used Justicia as a basis. "

>>162160945
Zero Saber > Original Saber

>>162162649
And what exactly do they stand to gain from doing something like that?

>>162162747
Continuation excerpt by another translator.

"So 500 years after the magi were gone, the homunculi make a plan to use Justeaze to reproduce the Third on a wide scale. They figure they can't replicate her after all, so they were gonna keep her forever, but they're robots and will pick whatever has the highest probability of success so they reach a consensus to use her. (Actually Jubstacheit was the only one against it)

Since Justeaze can only use the third on one person over decades, they use her to make a bigger ritual to save multiple people at once. They plan to disassemble Justeaze's circuits, and make a "humanoid universe" (???), which is the great grail.

But they needed a human to help get it off the ground because they can't enter human society on their own, and in 1800 Zolken comes along. He's mostly given up on trying to eliminate evil by that point but the Einzberns were his last hope. So they have Makiri as a partner and Tohsaka as a cooperator and built the great grail, but they needed magical energy and a lesser grail to control it. So Makiri and Tohsaka make the grail war to gather magical energy, Einzbern makes the lesser grail. And after 10 years they do the grail war and it works, but they fail because magi fight over who gets to use the grail, because Einzberns are pure robots who didn't realize obviously humans are going to do that.

So the Einzberns have no Justeaze so while working to restart the great grail they go back to their original focus on manufacturing a perfect homunculus. Which brings us to Illya and Iri. And then there's the bit about the tuners that I mentioned which is basically just Nasu going "oh here's a little anecdote that has nothing to do with anything, BTW AFTER ILLYA DIES JUBSTACHEIT SHUTS DOWN"

Einzberns are autistic philosophical zombie robots who just want to save the world, anon.

>>162162231
>Literally has to write one volume a year so he doesn't get shit on by Nasu doing lore stuff with FGO.

>>162162628
/tv/ tends to use that joke a lot more than /lit/ does, nowadays. /lit/ dropped it at least, like, 2 years ago.

>>162162748
False. She actually goes through character development in Fate.

>>162162754

Nothing that interests them, which is why I said there's zero chance of things getting less fucked up. No proper Magus would be anything but a huge cunt ready to fuck everything up for the sake of research, let alone share knowledge with other people and cooperate without backstabbing involved.

>>162162793
>Einzberns are autistic philosophical zombie
Daily reminder that Illya is the only Einzbern that can express true emotions, Iri cannot. Think about that for a second.

>>162162196

Obsession with the root is pretty much the definition of a magus. If you're not into the root you're just a spellcaster chucklefuck.

>>162162840
Stop repeating misinformation. That is not why there has been a year between every volume.

>>162161781
Why do all anti-F/sn arguments rely on not knowing anything about the VN?

>>162163105
Reading a VN is a bigger investment than most people are willing to commit to, but they want to talk about Fate, so they crap on F/SN.

>>162162887
Well no shit. Illya is half human while Iri was full homunculus. Iri's emotions were implanted into her by Kiritsugu

>>162162793
>Einzberns are autistic philosophical zombie robots who just want to save the world, anon.
They're set up to fail either way the world doesn't want them to get their magic back and the one time they actually could've won was when the Earth sent in a CG to kill Iri

Why are people a lot more vocal now about hating F/Z all of a sudden. Did FGO/Apocrypha bring in a bunch of people new to the nasuverse or something?

>>162157179
Did JK Rowling really right a review of stay night?

Personally I think Nasu's world building is several steps ahead of her. She is fun a nd whimsical but doesn't really make an effort to systematize or make her magic conform to a logic

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>>162162793
>>162162747
"Want to save the World"? Bullshit, they're all a bunch of sociopathic assholes who care only about reaching Akasha like every other mage. The Tohsakas, the Makiris, and the Einsberns are all the same shitheaded sociopaths but the Einsberns are the worst with Acht arguably being even worse than Zouken.

Zouken went insane after years of worm fuckery rotting his mind. Acht on the other hand consciously went through with having the Einsberns participate in the Grail War despite knowing that the Grail could bring about the end of the world. Acht a shit.

>>162163204
I think it's that people have had a chance to sit down and think about it and realize that they don't think it's good on a narrative level. It's got a good soundtrack and looks pretty decent so it's enjoyable at the moment when you're watching it, but being enjoyable and being good are two separate things.

As for why they weren't talking about why it was shit before Apoc and it being shit is a good excuse to talk about what else is shit.

>>162163284
They don't want to go to the root anon.

They want to use Heavens Feel on everyone like Amakusa.

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>>162162914
Unless you're Waver and you actually have a heart.

>>162163284
>Homunculi that are basically a computers
>sociopathic assholes
I don't think you understand the Einzberns very well. Only Illya would qualify for that.

>>162163284
Are Einzberns really the worst? Compared to what some other magi do like in Paradox Spiral, HGW at least has a chance to go by without wanton deaths of bystanders

>>162162747
So who built Acht? When did the Einzbern stop being human?

>>162163438
Apprentices built Acht. I think the Einzberns were all homunculi from the very beginning.

>>162162914
A Russian cultist who went ALIENS managed to see the root and the MA had her assassinated
>>162163398
The world hates them for a reason

>>162162196
>>162162649
>>162162865
>>162162914

>Every single Magus by their very nature are selfish cunts who autistically chase after the Root and don't give two shis about morality or consequences for people, as long as they get closer to it.
>Create monsters and sacrifice humans like it's nothing.
>There's a mage association that keeps these people in check, maybe there is some amount of cooperation born from the moral outrage at the crap some of their members pull after all
>Nope, they couldn't give less of a shit about their methods, they just group together because they can't stand the idea of someone getting ahead of them or revealing magic to the muggles since that would mess with their own autistic recluse lifestyles, they just shag those people and take their research for themselves
>Wait but there's a university system for magi! Surely this is proof of positive cooperation, or at least of the existence of magi who care about others learning
>Nope, Teachers only teach pieces of knowledge to bait students into serving under them for more and use them as resources for their own research, while the students themselves only seek to steal as much knowledge as they can get away with so they can repeat the teacher's methods. The idea of a teacher who genuinely works for the growth of their students or of students genuinely appreciating and following their teachers is fucking laughable

Why Shirou doesn't chimpout hard at this entire thing that causes no end of grief for everyone baffles me, it's not really different from the crap Kirei pulls to get his answers out of Angy Manjew

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>There are people on /a/ RIGHT NOW who don't think Fate/Kaleid is the peak of the entire franchise

>>162162914
At least Clocktower 2015 implies a lot of them are more concerned with maintaining and increasing their power and political positions than actually reaching the root.

>>162163634
Zelretch believed the Tohsaka were fundamentally good at heart, though he never expected much of them

>>162163666

Those are ust playing longterm Satan, they're giving their descendants more resources to research more effectively

>>162163826
True to an extent, but Rin compares a magic crest to giving your kid a sports car when his goal is to reach the moon.

And even someone Like Alba dismissed the idea of reaching the root as pointless, he just cooperated with Araya to "win" against Touko

Being a magus is basically a nonstop New Game + in a RPG for a impossible goal.

>>162163634
Shirou probably doesn't know the full extent of magi bullshit, besides he has no chance against a proper mage, that would only get him and Rin into deep shit

>>162164068
He explains in the vn that magus are crazy people who dont care about human lives and that the association doesn't care as long as no one gives up the secret.

He knows that even before he meets Rin

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Its definitely got the best waifu in it.

>>162156603
Shirou isn't wrong in any of those, you're just retarded.

>>162157681
Godammit Gilles

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>>162156871
Reminder, Berseker Ilya = Best Ilya

>>162163508
>The world hates them for a reason
So is it safe to say that after Hollow Ataraxia that the Mages Association and Schweinorg had all the Einsberns killed when they found out the truth of the Grail War?

>>162164730
probably not

Zelretch knew they were rotten from the start and just really didn't care, the mage association doesn't care as long as shit doesn't actually go down. In fact it was implied the fight to dismantle the grail was even crazier than the 5th war. Rin and Waver actually opposed the consensus to dismantle it.

>>162164730
No? Why would they?

>>162164730
Acht gave up and basically committed suicide once Illya failed so there's nothing to kill.

>>162164913
>it was implied the fight to dismantle the grail was even crazier than the 5th war
Where? I'm curious; I don't remember that.

>>162164991

Afterword of some of the Fate endings. Understandable, since Shirou probably intervened and fucked people up hardcore.

>>162163354

Is there a chance for further Case Files translations? Shit's fucking dead but I still have the itch.

>>162165327
What makes me laugh is that NOBODY will respond to that one guy who asked about it in the BL Case Files thread like 3 weeks ago, nor will they post in that thread again, because it'll look like they're trying to avoid the question.

Of course there is a chance for further Case Files translations. It's simply a matter of finding somebody particularly willing and interested in the project. Who knows how long that may take, though?

>>162164913
Weren't Rin and Waver spearheading the decision to dismantle the Grail War?
>>162164987
Source?

>>162157334
Flat is long.

>>162165327
Maybe someone will translate the manga when it comes out.

>>162156232
AHAHAHAHAHA Go and read Strange Fake you newfag

>>162165506

>Maybe if we pretend the translator is still alive, he'll actually come back!

>>162165622

It debuts in October right?

>>162165806
It is unfortunate that that is their real mentality but, indeed, it is.

You know that they're still waiting for the guy who was translating DDD - arai - to return, something like 7 years after he altogether disappeared?

>>162163634
He knows its a shit system, but one person can't overturn an entire society. All he can do with his power is go after rogue magus who experiment on muggles, that's the limit of his reach.

>>162166062
>an alternate lostman who, instead of pursuing Kiara, pursued the destruction of the Mage's Association

>>162166124
Shooting people with bullet that make people explode with swords.

>>162165529
>Weren't Rin and Waver spearheading the decision to dismantle the Grail War?

Yeah that what I meant, they went against the consensus and spearheaded the effort.

>>162164987
Makes sense if the Grail was completely destroyed and the Grail War was dismantled. Acht wouldn't really have much of a reason to live at that point so yeah.

What if I like both FSN and Zero for what they each do unique to each other despite their glaring flaws?

Hollow Ataraxia is better than both anyway.

>>162166871
Then, you're a well-adjusted human being.