How did they build thousands of warships, supply cities and fleets

>>162105143
To be fair the empire also controlled most of the known universe.They have more than enough resources to do so. Not all planets were inhabited by pilgrim looking fuckers, I'm sure there were some more technologically advanced ones out there.

Scale. Most of those planets are basically agricultural and other kind of land, with few planets being industrial and economic centers. Like how the American midwest is a large swaths of nothing but actually produces alot of things, only to have the coastals process everything into finished goods, making it seem the coastals "produce" the wealth.

Or maybe the same way medieval domains have mostly farmland but have a small officer class that only raise levies from the peasantry during war time.

Tldr;

It was really really big with a few economic centers.

>>162105296
I forgot that transfer of wealth is also mostly in the coastals, so they give the impression of being "richer" states. To prove my point: They'll starve to death in a few days the moment the midwest refuses to give them food.

>>162105296
The problem is that medieval planets dont produce goods that hold any worth. Its essentially empire holds few good planets and rest just sustain themselves with medieval life style.

Still doesnt make sense when compared to Alliance that should have more "good" planets

>>162105449
>The problem is that medieval planets dont produce goods that hold any worth.
Food hold worth.

>>162105598
A medieval society doesnt have the production capability to produce enough surplus food anon. Famines are common plus a you lack certain necessities like long term storage capability.

>>162105449
Well they didn't show you the mines and other material extraction facilities. Those can exist without turning an otherwise feudal backwater into a industrial planet. They could just ship those goods to somewhere else to be processed. The Empire was like, really really big. You could call them inefficient or retrograde, but you can't call them poor.

"feudal" though doesn't seem to be a form of government for the Empire, but it seemed more like a cultural thing. You can have an advanced government and economic structure without an "era-appropriate" culture.

Look at the Roman Empire. For most of its life it functioned like a modern nation-state in all but name. They had complex government structures, a military-industrial complex, a massive bureaucracy but they are otherwise stuck in a the ancient world. But in exchange, they had to be really really really big to squeeze enough resources to function as an Empire.

We could contrast them to Greece, where they had alot of "good" planets but still got steamrolled by a bunch of country bumpkins from Latium.

>>162105767
Rome wasnt big during Macedonian wars anon

>>162105714
Rome had Egypt and I think it was North Africa/Tunisa produce so much grain that they produced surplus, enough surplus to have citizens of Rome have basically bread neetbux.

And rome was like, earlier than medieval societies. In fact, medieval societies was structurally a carry-over to Dioclecian policies to fix Rome's deficit.

>>162105825
It was big enough. Big enough to meatgrinder Cartage.

>>162105714
>what are fertilizants that didn't exist in middle ages
>what are SCI FI fertilizants that don't even exist today

>>162105767
>Look at the Roman Empire. For most of its life it functioned like a modern nation-state in all but name. They had complex government structures, a military-industrial complex, a massive bureaucracy but they are otherwise stuck in a the ancient world.

More or less this. Also in early 1700s Europe was wealthier than feudalist europe in 1200s, but the divide in wealthiness between peasants and aristocracy was even bigger

>>162105143

How did Germany get so hulked up despite having a pastoral economy forced upon them post WWII?

Nobody knows~

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>>162105143
Hitler did it

Its the future, why the fuck is farming and agriculture still done by hand instead of machines?

>>162105143
The FPA was founded roughly 200 years after the Galactic Federation turned into the Galactic Empire, GE, 310 UC(Universal Calendar, year 1 being 2801 AD)

The events of LoGH takes place around year 800 UC. By that time the Alliance-Imperial War has lasted for 160 years.

Note that the FPA and the GE is evenly matched at the beginning of LoGH. This means that the FPA economy somehow managed to catch up with that of the GE within a span of 300 years.

If it hadn't been for retarded politicians, the FPA would've eventually outproduced the GE.

>>162106100

>what are SCI FI fertilizants that don't even exist today

I don't think fertillizants were brought up, but in the anime-only episode 14, Free Planets Alliance troops make a barren planet abandoned by Empire troops per Reinhard's Scorched Earth tactic fertile, but the need for more supplies for the FPA comes, and the supply unit is ambushed by Kircheis. Cue the FPA troops robbing the civilians living in the planets their occupying.

>>162106227
If anything, you should wonder more about the empire's cultural shift from modern culture to literally 2nd Reich.

I mean, being de facto and then actual aristocracy doesn't automatically mean you suddenly take cultural trappings of aristocracy in the past.

Larping an older culture doesn't really take off, if at all.

>>162106673
Yes I remember. Point being, pushing for sci fi fertilizants wouldn't be needed, with XX century tier fertilizants we can support a much larger amount of people than before fertilizants.

Some people said Thomas Malthus was proven wrong for this, but I don't think he was. Simply Malthus picked food as the element to show his point of fight for resources.

>>162106381
LoG doesn't follow SKYNET or IROBOT plotlines, that's almost an overused cliché by now.

>>162106381
It's 2017, but why is India a regional power with a large I.T. infrastructure despite still literally shitting on the streets? You're implying technological progress automatically comes with your notions of other kinds of progress.

>>162106835

That's part of the very backstory of the franchise. Colonization was hampered because of literal piracy, thus making humanity give up on colonization and focus on fighting those pirates. The man that put on end to those pirates once and for all ended up taking up politics and succeeded. Then he chose monarchical autocracy.

>>162107986

>The man that put an end to those pirates once and for all ended up taking up politics and succeeded.

Fixed

>>162106100
>>162105874
Yeah, sure they can produce surplus but you still see majority in agriculture related jobs ergo thr surplus isnt that big

He can choose a monarchical autocracy, but it shouldn't have to *look* like a historical monarchical autocracy. Like, it could function exactly like a 2nd Reich, but they'd still wear jeans and listen to k-pop instead of literally 2nd reich I mean, if you squint your eyes a little you could see Oligarchs in America as aristocracy (in a stretch) in the sense that they're elites that pass power through generations, but you don't see them acting and looking like english nobles.

But Rudolph chose to larp. And it actually got caught on culturally. And that almost never happens I can't even remember a precedent of it. Cultural shifts aren't trickle down affairs.

>>162108998
>Cultural shifts aren't trickle down affairs
Tell that to Mao. Autocratic monarchies have existed for thousands of years. It's only since post-WWII where they got unpopular and everyone believes in democracy. But there's no guarantee that'll last.

>>162108998
Forgot to quote
>>162107986

>>162108188
I don't think we've actually seen statistics about the empire, so we can only assume what's logically possible and use irl as basis. So if they work and we can see historical precedent for it, then that's how it probably worked.

Sometimes anime becomes a little more stupid when the author tries to be smart and puts retarded numbers that don't add up. See: GoT, especially the fucking Wall. The author not putting it in exact detail is often times a good thing and not to mention generates speculation and discussion.

Are we getting novels 6-8?

>>162109055
Where is Mao now? His legacy is but dust. Deng's China reigns supreme. Enterprise has always been a chink thing, commie or not.

Sure autocratic existed for thousands of years, but culture is almost always defined from the ground up, like how every single kraut, frog, nord or whatever else is there that ends up ruling England becomes English. With the exception of the Normans, but it's more like a cultural admixture than a direct shift from X to Y. And autocratic monarchies comes with all sorts of flavors, and it's just silly that the Empire autocratic monarchy in particular copies historical prussian(ish) monarchy. And with zero cultural succession too. Like by the time the Galactic Empire happened there was probably no existing aristocracy in the republic outside of history books, thus theyre basically larping.

>>162109055
This. Authocratic Monarchism is the most Historically popular and recurrent form of government, regardless of one's opinion of it.

The "democracy forever and ever" movement only appeared after WWII

>>162105143
You don't need to pay peasants.

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>>162107986
>it's a "julian watches the history channel" episode

>>162109302
You can be an autocracy/monarchy despite having modernist architecture, anon. I'm trying to say that an monarchical form of government doesn't necessarily mean fancy 17th century palaces or 14 century castles, it just means succession through blood and nothing else.

Like the Best Korea. That's basically a monarchy but it sure doesn't look like the Joseon dynasty.

>>162109302
>>162109055
Monarchism got BTFO during the 18th century in which it transitioned into more republic/democratic governments.

World War 1 killed Monarchism and set up the idea of democracy forever, but due to tough times and lots of butthurt, the democracies of the time became short lived and replaced with autocratic systems they proceeded to get BTFO once more.

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>>162109513
>"democracy"
>it's run by a kabalist secret society

>>162109703
I'm waiting for an open autocracy, anon. I'm getting some late-roman-republic senses here. Oligarchs will soon be BTFO in favor of a Caesar.

Why are the Phezzan jews allowed to maintain so much power? They are just a single trade planet, the Empire should've took the easy pawn and then invaded the Alliance through that channel.

>>162109867
Mutual silent agreement for both parties to trade between each other. They don't want to admit it, but they still need each other.

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>>162109486
Well yes. But nothing stops absolute monarchy from reviving aesthetics from the time where it has the most power.

Why does this give power? They instantly control fads instead of giving it to celebrities and fashion designers.

That said, they pick monarchy outfits similiar to the 1700s. They could've gone full medieval instead like pick related.
But Medievalist Chivalry code remains present in both Kircheis and Reinhart.

>>162109513
I doubt we have achieved true democracy yet. We are LARPing as a democracy while being ruled by the consensus of a small numbered cartel of insanely rich people.

>>162110724
Was there any reason to? Again, culture is not a trickle down thing. Celebs and fashion designers don't dictate culture in a consequential way, so replacing those celebs with aristocrats would mean the same thing.

The books are pretty explicit about the nobles living a lifestyle where they avoided much automation and mechanization, substituting servant labor whenever something needed to be done.
So the nobles got to wear bespoke woolen garments and eat completely handmade meals, while everyone else probably had to settle for mass-produced synthetic clothes and food (the food might be synthetic too).
We don't get a good look at what this other side of the Empire looks like, but the leisure area in Iserlohn Fortress provides a small glimpse.

>>162105143
The Empire was clearly an archaeofuturist society that kept its grim resource extraction and manufacturing industries away from where people lived and formed communities.

Anyone know when the new Legends of Galactic Heroes starts?

>>162113412
Ask again next Wednesday.

>>162106528
Nah FPA was teetering on the brink of collapse, it simply wouldn't have been able to muster more manpower or resources into the military. Meanwhile Galactic Empire wasn't even really trying. They whipped out massive fleets and armies and opulently built ships capable of orbital entry (unlike FPA ships) and built massive space stations with equally massive weapons. If Reinhard or anyone in the empire really really wanted to fuck up FPA, they could do so, easily.

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>>162113812
What's happening next Wednesday?

>>162106381
To add to >>162107064 point, see this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Im_8sI0QFQ

>>162109262
I hope so. I've been preordering them every chance I get.

>>162116312
There is going to be some sort of press release where they have some people involved in the project just come and talk about it. One of the big announcements is probably about the new VAs that will take the place for the VAs that are either dead, retired, or just cannot voice the character anymore.

Although I thought it was happening on the 22nd, and not the 20th.

>>162117796
The fuck? Are you telling me Indians have never used scythes? That's Middle Age tier technology.

>>162105143
The FPA actually was far in advance of the empire for most of the war.

It's handwaived away how the Empire didn't get fucked before they put up Iserlohn. But the Empire were so inept that the tactics that Reinhard beat in episode 1 were what crushed an Imperial fleet at the start of the war. The tactic defeated by "not sitting still and waiting" crushed them.

The Alliance massively outproduced them and caught up to them in like 100 years. Then there is a bunch of hand waiving which means the empire is really stable and the alliance not.

>>162109369
I didn't expect to like those episodes as much as I did
I honestly want a series focusing on those events

>>162118287
If you get the first volume of the LN, the prologue goes more indepth into it than the History TV episode. Pretty good LN, if you don't mind it being somewhat dry.

>>162118287
Seeing Rudolf's rise to power from a close perspective (like Kircheis to Reinhard) would be cool. Or maybe some earlier moments of the FPA-Empire War.

>>162118258
Alliance got unstable cause they took in a shitload of refugees and immigrants from the Empire, many of whom were salty losers of power struggles.

The thing is, innovation is not universal among a society. The Aztecs were an extremely advanced society in many aspects, to the level that the Spanish were not THAT far ahead of them. Yet the Aztecs never figured out the wheel.

>>162118387
That doesn't really lead to the weird stability issues they had. If anything revanchism should have been the national fucking sport considering their entire history was basically "the empire fucking hates us since we left"

>>162118473
Many societies stopped using the wheel. Japan decided that wheels were shit for a few hundred years as well. Sub-saharan africa is covered with cave art of chariots. But they stopped using them because other things did the job just as well or better for what they needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J08wvDV3r3g&feature=youtu.be

>>162118608
No not "stopped using the wheel", they literally never invented it. And odds are it was because they lacked beasts of burden.

>>162118505
The difference was that their founders really believed in democracy while some of the refugees they took in were just power hungry losers who were hungry at another opportunity at power.

>>162118643
The Spanish completely destroyed their history. We have no idea if they invented it and then dropped it.

>>162118387
Anon the books are pretty explicit that the reason the FPA fell is because they lost sight of the ideals they were founded upon.

>>162118706
So was the show, but a contributing factor they gave in one of those history episodes was taking in refugees who didn't care about their ideals.

>>162108998
>But Rudolph chose to larp. And it actually got caught on culturally. And that almost never happens

But it has? Diocletian, started the tradition of Larping as a king despite only being the "First among Equals" and from then on nearly all other Emporers fully ended the sham of Republicanism. Peter the Great, larped about being a giant Frenchaboo, and systematically caused the whole aristocracy to give up their beards and westernize. Mao and Cheng Kai Shek Larped about being modern and western, and East Asia now wears Blue Jeans. During the Meiji period, the same happened with Japan. And before that, the satellite states of the East, Larped about being fake Chinese, and their entire systems of writing descended from them.

>>162108998
During the Roman Empire, the Emperor and his familia set trends and fashion.

>>162119259
That's not them larping their own past.

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>>162105322
>They'll starve to death in a few days the moment the midwest refuses to give them food.
>Try again

Dont know about East Coast though i reckon they can survive on fish.

>>162118473
Aztecs were THOUSANDS of years behind the spaniards. The technology gab was astonishingly wide

>metal working
>seabased travel
>math
>construction
>society itself

>>162119646
You can't live forever on almonds and milk.

But then again, why the fuck would the midwest refuse to give their customers, ie coastals, food? The original point is pretty meaningless too.

>>162105143
>fleets of billions of people
Considering that the Empire's entire population was several dozen billions (the actual number was stated, IIRC 40 billion) I highly doubt that.

>>162106381
A massice technological collapse after Rudolph took over.
They never recovered.

>>162120204
>40 billion

It feels like every planet would have to be masssively underpopulated for that to work

>>162120307
They mostly were from what we saw.

>>162120307
I just checked, it was 25 billion at the series' start, the Allience had 13 billion
Remember that Westerland had only two million inhabitants.
Humanity took quite a nosedive, not even the Imperium from 40k fucked up as badly as Goldenfart.

>>162120735

The Imperium is also huge on having some planets whose sole purpose is shitting out babies.

>>162120792
Not quite what I meant:
thanks to Goldenjew technology first dropped and then stagnated badly, followed by a massive population loss.
He's probably one of the most disastrous and incompetent ruler in all of fiction. But hey, at least he managed to pull of the nearly impossible task of rewriting all cultures into a historical one no one probably cared about, so at least he spend all the resources, well, shitty.
The Imperium at least has the excuse that they were first ripped apart by uber-terminators and then screwed over by hell.
And hey, even Oceania and the ICG from Xeelee TRIED to make things shitty for everyone. Goldenbaum managed this all by himself.

>>162121291
unintentionally.
I forgot a word

>>162120735
Despite the "advancement" of the nations, most of the planets are actually still colonial in nature. There are a few highly populated core planets, and most of the outer periphery are probably the equivalent of rural settlement outposts.

>>162121291
>thanks to Goldenjew technology first dropped and then stagnated badly, followed by a massive population loss.

Chairmen Mao 2.0.

>>162121291
Whatever you say about Rudy and his successors the inferior genes exclusion act purified humanity of vast majority of genetic defects. I mean, how many people on either empire or FPA wore glasses or had born defects of other sort? Oberstein was very rare oddity.

>>162121291
The reason was brain drain and FPA sabotage.

>>162120307
Makes sense how low theyre at the techscale, planets cant support high population

>>162121460
Genetics doesn't work that way. In 300 years, all sorts of genetic defects will arise as each generation reproduces, no matter how superior their ancestors were. All the act did was to racially cleanse the Empire of undesirable races.

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>>162119646
>Colorado, Nevada and Utah shut off the water
nuthin personell spic huehuehuehue

>>162121585
No the purge continued until very recently. Oberstein himself said he'd have been killed off had he been born earlier. They kept on weeding out the inferior individuals as they appeared and made sure they didn't breed.

>>162118680
The Spanish didn't really destroy that much themselves, but they did leave the vacuum for the competing tribes to do it.

>>162121695
Post-conquest they spcifically destroyed as much of the legacy of the natives as they could. So we just have no fucking idea about an entire strain of human history.

Nearly a third of all human history just, gone.

>>162121643
Fair point. But was it that same Act that prevented ethnic minorities and republican families from reproducing?

You can replace ships. You can't replace good men and women. Alliance kept getting good men killed off, both in government and in politics. It all culminated in the infamous decision at gunpoint. Yang won the battle, but the war was already lost long before.

>>162121460
You guys think Reinhard had a chance at being emperor of the universe if he was an ugly deformed freak instead of a 10/10 Ubermensch?

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>it's an Imperial Engineers accidentally build the City episode

>>162106528
FPA was only able to do it because they geared their entire society towards resisting the Empire and it was taking a toll. By the time the series takes place Yang notes essentially all the skilled people are in the military and you can't even get an education without enlisting unless you're filthy rich.

The only reason the FPA was so successful at stalemating the Empire for so long was the Empire was deliberatly kept in cultural and technological stasis to maintain their 18th century in space way of life. The moment they bring out AIs and even modern technology for the masses, the aristocracy system is toast.

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>>162118374
>Earlier moments in the FPA-Empire War
I agree with this one, would've been great to see more designs along the lines of pic related. Sucks how they really didn't do much else with the whole Bruce Ashbey storyline in Spiral Labyrinth, especially not fleshing out more of the Empire admirals during that time.

>>162121291
Don't you shittalk the ICG, they managed the impossible. Out of all the known galaxies, only the Milky Way was free of the fucking Xeelee.

>>162121746
To be fair we don't know what happened to the non europeans. I'm guessing they were just kept second class citizens or in separate planets. That or they chose some kidn of gene editing so their descendants would look more germanic. That last one doesn't seem too far ftched considering Rudolf's autism.

>>162122745
Ashbey was killed by the FPA government because they feared him turning into another Rudolf. Had he lived and pressed on after his victory, it's very possible that would have happened.

>>162122915
I thought Yang's final theory is that it was just a lucky shot.

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democracy is gay yo

>>162123006
It's pretty convenient Alfred Rosas died soon after talking to Yang under strange circumstances. The last member of the 730 mafia and the last living man who was present at the battle at a command level.

As I understood it, Rosas was involved in the plot.

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>>162118151
Niggers are starving all around africa because they dont know about irrigation or fertilizers and carrying shit around in huge vases because they dont know about wheels.

>>162123087
He killed himself, but I think it was more survivor's guilt than actual guilt.

It was just pure luck that Ashbey died, just like how it was just pure luck that Yang met up with the man who wrote the letters about Ashbey.

>>162118473
The Byzantine Empire is a better example of an advanced society with barely any innovation.

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>>162121381
He brought it on himself

>>162123463
Why a bird?

>>162123552
taken from /his/
>be mao
>want to produce more food
>notice that sparrows eat grain
>tell people to kill all the sparrows because that are little counter-revolutionary fucks and a symbol of the bugeois (not even kidding. Look this shit up)
>People kill a shitton of sparrows
>Sparrows no longer kill real pests
>Crops fail
>btfo out of your own population by accident
>45 million dead

>>162123552
Behold, the greatest extent of Chinese ingenuity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_Campaign

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>>162121828

I would watch the fuck out of that

>>162122543
>The only reason the FPA was so successful at stalemating the Empire for so long

The empire was a technologically backwards nation whos idea of tactics was "let them surround us"

It's author fiat that they survived the first 100 years of the war. They lose 2 major offensives, have no capacity to make war, and for some reason the FPA never launches a counteroffensive.

They lost 40 admirals in their first major half-successful invasion of the FPA. 40.

>>162118057
What the fuck, I literally just finished the original series just now and you're telling me they might be about to announce a new one?

>>162119646
If every single resident of New York ate half a fish a day and nothing else the entirety of the surrounding sea would be devoid of life within two weeks.

>>162126705
It's a re-adaptation of the novels, so some of the more prominent characters in the OVA, like most notably Dusty Attenborough and even some of the Imperial Admirals, perhaps might not have much of a role and just be set dressings.

But yea, there has been talk of a remake/re-adaptation ever since, I think 2013 or 2014 it was announced (maybe farther back). It has been a really slow wait for any drip feed of news. Like Production IG being the studio to handle the the remake was only announced in I think 2015. It's been so long I can only remember the details and not the chronology of it.

A Production IG spokesperson or some head producer did mention that production is going slowly due to how they are trying to do their best to actually recapture the spirit and that requires people who are not only talented enough for the material, but also have the passion to make it as good as Artland did. Having them be fans is sort of a must. I need to find the source of that article though.

>>162127659
Wtf I loved Dusty Attenborough
But probably with a new face and voice I wouldn't like him as much

>>162121595
You seem to be under the impression California didn't engineer a massive water system half a century ago beyond what those states could ever hope to accomplish, and that it isn't still expanding that system to divert more water from the north.

You seem to be under the impression the coastal cities didn't just restart water desalination projects whose only resource consumption is energy, which is quickly being produced in abundance, though California can just divert its oil and gas fields to itself to sate its water needs.

But most importantly...

... you seem to think humans can live off corn cobs alone.

Good thread. Basically every point gets a counter that makes a lot of sense. Liked the India comparison.

>>162128211
Well he is seen more in the anime and less so in the novels.

>>162118643
>odds are it was because they lacked beasts of burden.
Go home Diamond. You're drunk.

>>162118608
>But they stopped using them because other things did the job just as well or better for what they needed.
They stopped using them because a certain group took over most of the continent. Ask East and West Africans about Bantus.

>>162128234
Well to be fair, the average American subsists off of corn syrup and fried potatoes.

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>>162109867
>Empire should've took the easy pawn and then invaded the Alliance through that channel.
That sounds like a remarkably good idea.

>>162113383
Most of that stuff is probably done on asteroids and shitty moons that can't support life. Only a fool would ruin a garden world if they have the option not to.

>>162119259
The start of the Dominate was him creating an illusion that he was a god-king. Sure that worked, but Roman culture still evolved dynamically independent of him. Peter the Greatest sure changed the culture of the aristocracy, but it didn't change the average slav on the field.

And the rest, I don't see how westernization = larping. They weren't roleplaying anything, they were actually adapting new methods. But I could see what you mean that westernization changes culture and can be induced through state policy, but it still not supplanting the existing culture with a new one, but a synthesis of both. See how Korea and Japan kept their cultures intact despite the changing times.

The Galactic Republic to Empire went from New York to Konigsberg in a single generation.

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>>162118351
>LN
is it ln or a novel?
what is consider a novel in Japan anyway?
what does Murican consider an LN anyway?
is twillight an LN?
What is going on?

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>>162105143
>series makes a point in the very first episode about how anything less then a headshot can be "repaired" by a machine

you know who still dies from a wound toward his leg

>>162131367
He bled out before anyone found him though.

>>162131367
Yeah this is a shitty "hole". Just because medicine was so advanced doesn't mean human bodies changed. You get shot you die. He wasn't treated.

>>162131012
LN's are geared toward shorter readings but in return have more entries in a series. Young adult novels are the most similar thing in the west. Animorphs, for example.

>>162131367
That was just the cover-up. He actually lived and recovered from his wound and retired from the service and gets to read great books in a comfy chair for the rest of his natural life.

>>162132015
Which is why Julian looked so dead inside as he looked over photos of the wedding.

>>162129503
Damn. I'm not up to that part yet, I'm only on episode 35

>>162106381
There's also no cellphones and no internet, give the dudes from 1980 a break, they couldn't predict EVERYTHING

>>162132269
Whats the explanation for why they can't communicate with each other over space? It's silly how messages take weeks to get to the battle since they have to go there physically.

>>162132434
Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space.

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>>162132071
NTR of course

>>162119692
>metalworking
Iron age, anon, in some regions. The Aztecs were merely the conquerors.

>seabased travel
Yes, but please remind me how Tenochtitlan was taken after the Aztecs destroyed their bridges.

>Math
nigga please, go build copies of Aztec works right now, and go read what little theory of the region exists that the Spanish didn't destroy (don't forget to remember who explicitly targeted learned Jews and Moors for extermination).

>Construction
See massive underground cave systems, underwater rivers, irrigation projects and aqueducts drilled through mountains, etc but yeah nothing like Hagia Sofia.

>Society itself
Yes, I'm sure the malnourished masses of Spaniard Mexico were so happy their conquerors set to work wrecking agriculture, trade, irrigation/water control, the extant pyramids of labor and industrial supply, ....

Who wrecked history, the FPA or the Empire? The Empire. Kircheis did everything wrong.

>>162132434
You know space is really big, right? Even traveling at light speed it takes over 4 years to get to the nearest star.

It's been some time since I've watched LOTGH so I don't remember what FTL capabilities they have, but if they have FTL at all it makes sense to put the message on a ship, go FTL, and then deliver it.

>>162132434
>>162132569
They can and did. I remember multiple instances of Oberstein making a long distance video call to shitpost.

>>162132569
Don't they have warp gates too? I don't really remember.

>>162131367
The artery in the leg is pretty much the worst possible artery for you to have ruptured, outside of the pulmonary and neck ones. There was NO WAY for Yang to reach any kind of treatment before bleeding out, even more so in a ship full of enemies and with a mostly dead crew.

>>162132434
>>162132650
There are times where they can't communicate in battles since there is communication jamming. For example when iserlohn was under seige they could've just called Yang but instead they had to wait weeks for him to arrive.

>>162105296
>making it seem the coastals "produce" the wealth
lol
funnily enough, marxists would agree with you

>>162132434
Nigga, even a light speed transmission can take YEARS to reach another planet in space. If I recall correctly, they referred to those rooms where they have video-calls with other planets as "warp communicators" or something, so that they can do that at all is pretty impressive, but don't expect it to be always available.

>>162132981
>Nigga, even a light speed transmission can take YEARS to reach another planet in space
But it's SF and spaceships can travel from planet to planet in a time comparable to naval travel on earth.

>>162133045
Because they have faster-than-light travel methods. They never elaborate on what those methods are, but on one of the >>162109369 episodes (I believe it was around 40), it's even specifically said at what date and which scientist invented it.

>>162132563
Wasn't 90% of mesoamerica already depopulated by famine and warfare before the Spaniards ever showed up?

>>162133140
>Spanish conquistador Hernán Cortés arrived in Tenochtitlan on November 8, 1519. With an estimated population between 200,000 and 300,000, many[who?] scholars believe Tenochtitlan to have been among the largest cities in the world at that time.[14] Compared to Europe, only Paris, Venice and Constantinople might have rivaled it. It was five times the size of the London of Henry VIII.

u wot

>>162132868
>>162132569
>>162132434
To add in some context, not that I remember clearly but somewhere along the 1st season.
In light of how advance technology has gotten in the future. Tools used in war especially communication are oftenly obsolete because no matter how much which side come up with something, technology itself will be replaced with another greater invention, cue the Push Button War. The alliances and the empire both try to compete against each other who can top one another who can make battle tools as a result, communication got reduced to the point of using physical communication and alternative snail nail to guarantee liability. This sound like it is good escape goat from plot hole, but it is somewhat plausible as an excuse. Hense during Yang's pandora box for the Empire during the Iserlohn recapture, and how the Alliances managed to fabricate the Imperial code is part of that reason.

>>162133324
Oh yeah, I forgot about that! They talk about how faster means of communication exist, but they're easier to intercept and fake, so they're usually avoided.

The notion that the Aztecs were on the same level as North American natives is ridiculous, they were quite advanced. But part of why Spain could so easily overpower them was because Aztecs were absolutely brutal and played their rivals out against each other because they demanded human sacrifices, so the rival tribes under their thumb raided each other so they didn't have to sacrifice their own.
This kept them divided, but when the Spanish came they were easily enlisted as local allies to fight the Aztecs.

Both sides in LoGH (and Fezzan and the Terraists for that matter) have FTL communication which lets them communicate across space in real time.
These communication channels are sensitive to interception (incl. decryption) and jamming, which is why they are used sparingly.
Radio communication is completely blocked in the heat of battle, since the state of technology at the time of the story is that jamming has the upper hand. If you want to get something across during battle, you put it on a shuttle and physically send it over.

>>162133303
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15922121

The entire area was already in severe decline before the Spanish arrived. Tenochtitlan may have still been populated, but most of the infrastructure and cities of the area had already been abandoned.

>>162133324
Makes sense, from what I see
>immediate communication exists in the form of warp-communicators where people are face to face in a room which guarantees liability
>communication jammers exists rendering these useless in battle
>other forms of communication and messaging are unreliable and can be intercepted

>>162133651
Yeah, pretty much. Having an official document delivered directly to you guarantees you're not having some filthy Iserlohners lie to you about the new orders or something.

>>162133526
Like just use PGP to encrypt messages and send them over the insecure FTL system. The enemy can intercept and decrypt the FTL communication stream but not the encoded message itself.
Dumbass space warriors.

>>162133651
I thought that was a smart move of author, it put a lid on the Sci-fi dilemma of "but we're in the future, so what if X was better." Couldn't have put it in another better word. Technologies are bound to be competed and beaten on top of another so this was the safe bet to avoid unnecessary confusion. The best part was that Logh isn;t too focus on the sci-fi aspect and its fictional science doesnt stretch out ridiculously like western high sci-fi so it managed to escape a few bullets.

>>162133651
but the question is, how do they coordinate these gigantic scale battles with thousands of ships if there is communication jamming?

>>162133395
North American natives were pretty impressive, too. They had trade routes that spanned all the way from Central America to Alaska. They had a population so big before they died off due to diseases that it took until early 1900's before the population of North America had recovered. Both North American and Central American civilizations had their strong points, but neither could do much against the colonizing forces - they were hopelessly behind on military technology, military tactics, and basically anything that mattered. That and the fact that 90% of their populations died to disease.

>>162133852
I don't consider the trade routes so impressive for the same reason Turkic raiders harassing China don't impress me.

>>162133826
The jamming isn't powerful enough to stop ships from communicating with each other, it just stops you from trying to reach people away from the battlefield.

>>162133826
My take is that most battle formation where ships are formed and aligned closely within their own perimeter so you can have crowd control in a small assigned group. Which kinda explain why some people say why couldn't they use the whole entire 3D space, well it could be because they are bounded a formation chain that link tto their commander communication.

>>162133826
Morse code communications via flashing lights.

>>162133919
I don't really consider Aztec civilization impressive either, though. They may have had a big city but a bunch of mud huts is still mud huts.

>>162133989
Except they weren't mud huts and you know this.

>>162132952
You know what's funnier? Its those same bloody marxists that complain about the electoral collage and how bumfuck nowhere shouldn't have an equal say on who to vote for president. If anything, if a socialist uprising would even happen, these so-called marxists would be the first ones to be shot.

They can't even comprehend that the proletariat is not them, but those farmers, miners, construction workers that voted for Trump. They're the stupid spoiled bourgeois who only want gibmethats and produce nothing of real value as far as marxism is concerned.

>>162134006
No, they were equally as shitty though, so the point is moot.

>>162134044
You're a moron who sees ghosts. Your democrat boogeyman isn't Marxist.

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I hope someday we get another war series that has modern or futuristic setting.
If it can be politically intriguing as logh and poetically passionate as Romance of the Three Kingdom (minus magic), then that will probably be the best series on the century.

>>162134112
>blatant socialists aren't Marxist

I'm not even the guy you're responding to, I just came here to call you a retard.

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>>162134177
combine Zhuge with Yang to make him as broken as possible.

>>162127659
>>162128211
The OVA's were also designed to be a faithful adaptation. A lot of the departures from the novel were merely meant to allow contents from the book to be reflected on the screen (Yang's early chats with Attenborough show up in the books as inner monologues or narration), while a minority served to straighten up mistakes or deviations that were made by the initial writing staff.
Unless they deliberately choose to be contrarian or depart from the novels, I suspect that we'll see a lot of the OVA's decisions repeated.

>>162134112
You're right anon, the Antifa doesn't have communists and social democracy isn't Marxist.

Literal hammers and sickles don't make them Marxists either.

>>162134177
I always wanted to see a Three Kingdoms adaptation set in crime ridden 1980s-1990s LA. With the Three Kingdoms being an ethic gang, kinda like the Wire or Oz.
It's working title will The Three Kangzdom

>>162134586
That actually sounds like a pretty dope idea.

>>162134586
>Supreme White Moralist Liu Bei
>We Wuz Emperor cao cao
>Tribal Chinks

Did the novels get fully translated now? Last time I checked, only the first two were done.

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>>162134177
>Romance of the Three Kingdoms adaption in the same style as LOTGH
yes please

>>162134689
The first four are done, with two more confirmed.
Reading up until the end of novel 6 get you as far as the Earth Cult smackdown and Yang's escape from Heinessen.
If the new series stirs up interest in the novels, we may even see the translations completed.

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>>162133651
>send messenger ship to fly out of range of the communication jammers
>use warp-communicators for long range communication and record the message
>fly back to the battle and deliver the message

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How often did Reinhard cheat on the FROEREIN with sweet little EMIRU?

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>>162134779
as much as I love the 2016 version, I feel like the older one discriminately underappreciated.
Some scene are really good, like this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkvufGvdUvA
This version has the seven step poem as a sad song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjBN31Gl2l0
Older Zhuge was definitely more emotional.

>>162134996
Reinhard lost his caretake Kircheis so he need some one to look after his autism in check, Emil was the perfect onahole.

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the new logh will belong to the fujo, how do you feel about that?

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>>162135147
You talk as if the original wasn't gay enough

>>162135271
Holy fuck how did I forget about that?

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>>162135271
Reuental and Mittermeyer weren't even the gayest

>>162135147
Don't really care so much as the plot remains the same.

>>162105767
As no building should be higher than Neue Sansousci by law, they may have dug deep into the ground to make great industrial complexes in many planets, thus supply the demand for warships and machinery while keep the cultural splendor of Prussia on the surface.

>>162134779
Pirated Chinese versions of LoGH used to go around as 'Three Kingdoms in Space', so there's that.
The Author says his inspiration for LoGH was in the biographies section of Legends of the Grand Historian, though.

>>162135087
Emil was a Terraist ploy to distract Reinhard from ruling with that sweet boypussy. His anus was also laced with poison which is why Reinhard got magic aids.

>>162105143
The bigger question is why did Phezzan fuck over the Alliance?

Didn't Rubinsky have the foresight to see that he would get fucked by the Empire, and that the Alliance was so indebted to him he could puppet its government?

>>162133826
They literally addressed this- lasers and shit allow tactical communication in a limited sense, but fog of war and jamming still exits

So it's back to skirmishes

>>162135271
REUENTAL AND MITTERMEYER

BROS 4 LYFE

>>162136670
How did Phezzan fuck the Alliance? They kept leaking information to them and lending them money, and by getting assraped by Reinhard the Alliance didn't even end up having to pay them up

>>162136986
They turned on the Alliance after the failed invasion pushed the balance of power heavily in favour of the Empire.

>>162136670
That wouldn't make sense for Phezzan. As soon as the FPA-Empire war ends, whomever the winner bay be, the planets on either side of the Corridors would establish contact and trade through the Iserlohn Corridor, completely undercutting Phezzan's influence. Phezzan would lose its main income source and a lot of its political leverage, so it would make sense for its independence to follow.
At best, Phezzan would reinvent its economy and pull a Singapore, continuing to exist as an independent but minor country. At worst, it would endure a Hong Kong and get completely digested by a major power over the course of 2-3 generations.

Besides, Rubinski was nothing more than an Earth Cult plant, and all the Earth Cult ever wanted was to devastate interstellar civilization to the point where Earth could once again rule over humanity.

>>162137106
I don't remember that being the case at all. As >>162137209 points out, the goal for Phezzan until they were conquered was always to keep the war going.

>gee Bittenfeld, what should we do?

>>162137276
TOTSUGEKIIIIII

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>>162137276
>>162137325

>>162137354
There' is a reason he lived

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>>162137416
Yeah, it's because he was a redhead. Same reason Poplan survived the entire series.

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here's an example of communication problem

Watching this and I can't remember any names besides the obvious ones, am I too much of a brainlet?

>>162137962
you have 110 ish episode to remember

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Would the Alliance have won if the government didn't kill him?

>>162138308
Only if he can cripple the Imperial fast enough before Reinhard all grown up, with the addition of having his teammate still trust him, then they had the chance.

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>>162138308
YANG!!!!!

just finished 79 just now. I noticed how this time Bittenfield took the bite despite knowing that it was trap wasn't because he want to actually barge in ahead like the meme that get posted around here. He was competent and know what he is doing alright but the problem was that he was too opportunistic about grabbing the first bite. Yang pretend to fall for "their" traps when he directed to Merklinger, Bittenfield happen to took that as a signal to attack and unknowingly got used by his own trap. Yang moved right back to position when Bittenfield is in the corridor then it was a complete checkmate.

>>162137449
>Kircheis

>>162108188
I think the fact that they are fielding hundreds of millions of soldiers at any given time implies that there's a shitton of surplus.

>>162139225
Who?

>>162106381
because they're on the absolute fringe of the Empire

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>>162139421
You must be joking.

>>162134177
Just go read a history book

>>162133542
I'm going to destroy you quickly.

Tenochtitlan has a massive and human-managed lake. It was partitioned manually, and zoned and drained in certain ways. It was all in use, and it was all functioning well and recorded as a bustling metropolis, as >>162133303 stated. After slaughtering the population, the Spanish inherited a feat of civil engineering mostly untouched by warfare due to the nature of how the war played out. However, within a few years, flooding and disease were rampant and incessant. /That/ is poor maintenance consequent of depopulation, unless you have the mistaken notion Cortes specifically targeted Aztec hydro-engineers for extermination.

Disease did spread, but it took some time, and it was not until a bit after the Aztec conquest that, for example, Mississipean cultures vanished, and it was not until the 1540s and Pizarro's artival that mass death turned the Incas into corpses. Mexican demonstration: The Purepecha state was overwhelmingly strong and felt secure in rebuffing Aztec pleas for aid, yet, just a few years later, so depopulated by disease had the region become that even into modern times, and even now in the exact same Michoacan they occupied, it is not well-known that a massive iron-age kingdom ever existed. Incan example: The transmission of loot to pay the king's ransom moved South to North. No mass death was prevalent. It was not until the immediate aftermath of the Incans' pathetic display in Pizarro's first battle that disease spread, and rebellion from Incan rule began not all at once but gradually and along the trade routes along the same timeline as diseases spread throughout Incan strongholds. In both cases, native fighters quickly moved to small-unit tactics and guerilla warfare just as the Japanese did toward the tail end of WW2, but this can't happen without the officer class dying, and this took more years than disease required to begin making its mark.

Basically, first Spanish conquest, then disease.

>>162139601
>history book
>poetically passionate

>>162131012
Just to answer this, even if it's half a thread old.

The language, LN's use much more simple language and uncommon kanji are accompanied by their spelling in kana.

>>162139753
>Barbara Tuckman
>Gibbon
Are you even literate?

>>162133542
Also, I can't access your article via Sci-Hub. Maybe its owner is censoring me like she censors all her random anti-Putin imaginary mental enemies. Bleh....

It takes at least /a little/ effort to destroy a population through the Spanish form of biological warfare. Even the black death saw some form of precautions taken over its multi-decadal run, and the American pestilences recurred for /centuries/. It was, rather than that, the policies of divide-and-conquer, the extermination of artisans and the educated, the suppression of /agriculture/, and the practical consequences of omfg suddenly malaria, suddenly giant worms, suddenly everyone in Central America died, that killed the Americans.

A demonstration from California follows. The Chumash were just as vulnerable as anyone else, but they did not die in huge swathes in the 100 years of Spanish invasion (and Russians showed up, too). I think it was because it was a nonviolent invasion, and I think California being a massive font of food was also important. Nevertheless, death spread and played the biggest factor in extinguishing the native settlements and communication networks and replacing these with Missions. HOWEVER... there remained hundreds of thousands of Indians across the state at the time of United States conquest. At the time my family left California for Mexico in the 1920s, Indians were not dying left and right from disease, the ranch was nearly entirely Indian, and both nutrition and lifespan exceeded that of the United States settlers (the remnants died last /decade/). Ten years later, murder had killed every single Indian not stuffed into tiny reservations designed to starve everyone to death. Medical care was denied, and locals aiding the Indians were shunned. There are a few hundred Indians left today in various pockets (little intermarriage because racism and whatnot), and they all look like me... because they are all mestizo. 100% extermination rate, basically.

That's conquest.

>>162139927
You probably just don't know how to use sci-hub.

>>162139968
I've used it plenty and rewrote its original Chrome extension years back when its built-in config went out of date. Other articles work, but this one hangs.

>>162139989
I think you are either incompetent or a revisionist or both. It seems sci-hub is down because I get a 502 no matter what I try to search for.

Also I checked google scholar, its available on academia.edu without me even needing to authenticate.

I have the Logh character profile and encyclopedia book, any fags has the liberty to translate it then let me know.

>>162140081
Hmm, then it must be down. I was just using it recently, too.

I'm not interested in signing up for another something that is probably as annoying to use as Research Gate. I'll download your article tomorrow.

I don't know what you mean by revisionist for sure, so let me take a wild stab at what it miht be.... My general argument probably seems odd, but it's details are factual, though sources are in rather niche places and easy to miss. The Inca small units tactic thing, for example, comes from a few-sentences quote by a Spanish seargant-equivalent in a Spanish literature-review text I read quite a few years back; in context, the tactics' details were nothing special in the author's mind, hence why I say "easy to miss." Most of what I wrote is like this.

The point I was trying to make is that regions that were traditionally sparsely populated, like the Purepecha lands and Central America, went almost extinct. However, those with dense concentrations of advanced society, like their Old World counterparts, didn't instantly fall to various plagues, and the evidence for this is what I supply, namely the propagation of revolutionary ideas stymied the destruction of infrastructure useful in stemming plague. Only when said infrastructure, cultural and physical, was specifically targeted by the conquerors did society no longer merely fray but instead totally shattered. If you're curious on modern takes on Biological warfare, you can refer to some public hearing in Congress involving the Navy where the cultural implications of a bioweapon inflicting indistinguishable malaise was briefly discussed (some time between 1997 and 2002).

If your reference to revisionism has to do with Sci Hub, then I frequently experience hangs on that site, I don't know what to say, and your reference to log in services as the alternative can be misconstrued as a phishing attack.... c.f. semantic attack theories.

I'm posting too much....

>>162140415
I'm not the guy you argued with nor did I link the article originally. I just looked it up because it sounded like you were bullshitting.

No comment on the rest of your arguments, but about Indians being exterminated in the 20's to 30's is, I daresay, a completely apocryphal family legend of yours.

Also sci-hubs creator being some Putin stooge censoring critics is nonsense. I've downloaded a lot of pol. sci. articles that were critical of kremlin over the last 2 years. Including a ton of stuff published by CFR.

Also holy shit how do you not know about google scholar?

https://scholar.google.se/scholar?hl=sv&q=Drought%2C+epidemic+disease%2C+and+the+fall+of+classic+period+cultures+in+Mesoamerica+%28AD+750-950%29.+Hemorrhagic+fevers+as+a+cause+of+massive+population+loss.&btnG=

>>162131012
>>162139775
i don't think it's that simple. LN's sometimes choose to delve into more obscure language as a matter of style.
Deferring to the time-honored practice of consulting Chiebukuro threads, here are some views on the subject.
(source: https://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1138797776)

yurayura_dear (question), March 31 2010:
>Is LoGH a novel or what?
>It had editions published by a LN label so people call it that, but..
>Honestly, I felt a bit uneasy seeing LoGH pop up in favorite LN lists on Chiebukuro.
>LN's have this image of books targeted at readers around high-school age and intended for light reading, but doesn't that defy this categorization?
>To begin with, this work was published before the idea of a LN even existed.
>Even though I've been in college since April, my father was the one who introduced me to this book.
>Maybe that's another reaso why I feel weird about this book being called a LN.
>On top of that, I feel like there are things about the book that set it apart from LN's and make it seem more like a general novel.
>For example, looking at it from a writing ability standpoint, LoGH seems like it belongs in general SF novel (space opera) territory.
>So which is it?

(cont.)

>>162140974
ohagi08175 (Best Answer), March 31 2010:
>A also think it's not a LN.
>I think this categorization was influenced by the Tokuma Dual edition of the novel which used Katsumi Michihara's illustrations, and the fact that it was adapted into anime, lending it the image of a cheap work.
>But as OP and other people have written, while it's OK for middle- and high-schoolers to read this (I would like younger people to read it), I think someone who approaches it as light reading like a LN would probably end up confused. Difficult vocabulary and kanji and grandiose phrasing are common throughout, while short LN-like paragraphs are rare, so you wouldn't be able to wrap your head around it without reading it carefully.
>One more thing, I think it might be wrong to even call it sci-fi. Having spent some of my younger years absorbed in the Japanese SF of the likes of Sakyou Komatsu, this work had a different taste to it, and even the author Tanaka himself testified that he had put an emphasis on the depiction of the characters, I think this book is more along the lines of a historical novel.
>Well, be it a LN or whatever, good things are good, and I would like it if even one more person came to read this wonderful work.

There's also a dissenting opinion. Working on that one.

>>162140974
>>162141125
You're translating this yourself or using Google? Either way, thanks for sharing.

>>162141125
naruyuimalig (Answer), April 2 2010:
>First of all, the idea posited in your question that "writing ability decides the genre" is mistaken. It's definitely not true that LN's are necessarily poorly written and SF novels are necessarily well written. That is completely wrong.
>I do think the word "light" in Light novel encourages an out-of-place feeling and is a bit misleading, but its publishing history as a bunkobon is consistent with its definition as a LN.
>Seeing as the definition of a LN is a bit hazy in the first place, I can't even put out a straight answer to the question of what an LN is exactly. I'm pasting a Wikipedia link below, but it's best to think of this subject as under dispute.
>Going straight to the point, if the publisher positioned and published the book as an LN, doesn't this make it an LN? Don't you think the author would have objected to an LN edition?
>Among the SF fans and people who came to like the work in the first place due to its deep story, there's a faction that tends to overreact when confronted with the "light"-word. I think the anime-like illustrations forming part of the definition of an LN, the manga adaptation and the anime adaptation surely served to attract a lot of fans. I fear that the people who react badly when LoGH is called an LN are operating out of a sense of "those people don't even know the novels.." know-it-all self-satisfaction, and end up closing their horizons and huddling up in their elitism. Honestly, it feels no different from Imperial nobility who fill up with a sense of self-superiority just by hearing the work "nobility", the way some people get stuck up over a world like "light" (though I may be exaggerating here myself).
>Well, since this is a sensitive issue, and the term LN isn't even clearly defined, isn't it best to let each person decide for himself?
>I think it's a light novel, since that would be the definition supported by the largest number of people.

Given Tanaka's fondness for Chinese history, did he have Qin Shi Huangdi in mind for Rudolf von Goldenbaum, considering both enacted cruel policies in the name of restoring order?

>>162142288
Probably.

>>162105143
Look anon, the grandpa writing this doesn't know jack shit about science let alone sci-fi, he just wanted to write about Napoleonic battles and make his Gary Stus look real impressive in them and the politics that follow, so he made everyone else retarded, but consistently retarded so when you're immersed you wouldn't mind cause you think "oh it's that kinda series, like how everyone in One Piece has a collective IQ of 50". All of that is just a vehicle to deliver the author's witty bantz and perspective on philosophical and political non-sense and basically tell the reader "I'm smart, feel impressed and let me enlighten you cause the rest of these 90s anime won't".

For a guy in 2017, all you need to care about are the bantz, cause that's where the timeless memes are from. Nobody gives a shit about how stupid giant shoeboxes in space are lining up in rows shooting at each other, nor why the standard issue battle axe can be parried by a letter opener without a single crack. What we give a shit about is Bittenfeld roasting Oberstein for being a creepy nerd with no friends.

>>162139753
Try historical podcasts. History of Rome and History of Byzantium in particular were woven into magnificent narratives. Aurelian , Diocletian, Heraclius and Justinian II for example would drive you to intense emotion .

There are other podcasts as well, like Chinese History Podcast has a fun ojisan narrating it and Dan Carlin's Hardcore History is fun and autismal.

Good taste, though I prefer Lars Brownworths shorter podcast about Byzantium. Perhaps because I'm not as big a fan of that era as the earlier Roman periods.

I can definitely recommend Revolutions, its by Mike Duncan who also made History of Rome.

Also if you want to get into history more but prefer listening I can really recommend the audiobook version of historical books. If you don't want to pay for audible there is always Librivox, though the quality there ranges from dog shit to awesome.

>>162143107
Oh yeah, I forgot about Mike's Revolution. The Haitan Revolution was an absolute fun shitfest and Bolivar deserves a You Tried Award. The Fall of Rome Podcast goes into detail about certain events and is a nice complimentary to History of Rome.

And I tried librovox once and it made me said. Got an audiobook about Russian history and it was written just before the Romanovs were butchered, so it ended in the tone of 'Things will probably get better". F

>>162139672
>>162139927
You're missing the point, despite Tenochtitlan being populated various factors had devastated and depopulated much of the civilization prior to the Spanish arriving and the subsequent spread of their own diseases, they were simply the final nail in the coffin.

This doesn't mean the entire population was exterminated, but it was declining from what it was previously and large segments of southern infrastructure had been abandoned.

>>162142447
Speaking of the silly axes is there any reason why hand to hand combat is so prevalent?

Even the RKC use fucking sticks to clobber people to death instead of just shooting them, which more often than not leads to people escaping.

>>162143799
If only he used dune-logic and said laser vs force field is a bad idea so people just go into melee range to stab people.

>>162143799
I assumed it's because they wear heavy armour, and anything that could pierce that would also pierce the hull of ships and result in everyone being sucked into vacuum. And you do see a lot of regular small arms being used in the show, against non-armoured people.

>>162143799
I remember when the Empire attacked the Earth Cult headquarters, their lasers just bounced off their heavy armor like it was nothing. Way later on, at the end, Imperial defenders weren't authorized to use heavy guns during the defense of the flagship.

>>162143799
Power amor, it seems the lasers need to be a strong size and power to kill a man, and defense beat infantry in the infantry level.

>>162144045
But if melee works, guns should. If armour can deflect lasers but they an axe can cut through, use fucking bullets.

>>162144122
They have power armor, which grants more power in meele than what a bullet can do, also we don't know how powerful said lasers are, since most spacemen who aren't in armor are just wearing their bare uniform, its probably said infantry lasers are probably as powerful as 9mm if not less.

Remember the handguns didn't damage ships interior.

>>162143799
Patriotic Knight Corps using sticks is legitimately retarded. There's not even the armour excuse here.

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>>162144314
I think they are more of hooligans and paid thugs, so using blunt arms is more of an excuse of being techinically legal weapons, like a baseball bat or a lead pipe, PKC aren't soldiers,they are paid thugs. Funny how didn't pop up when the empire occupied Heinessein.

>>162144406
>ywn see Reinhard and Yang at the head of an uneasy coalition formed to fight off a newly discovered alien menace

>>162144629
>mfw there was some sort of alien ruins in episode 1
>mfw there wasn't major influences of AIs and cybernetics
>mfw we didn't see much of planets of both sides, with the capitals and certain buildings taking much of setting's place and focus
>mfw we didn't got to see the criminal underworld of alliance
>mfw there isn't much to Empire beside some movies and gaidens
>mfw the Empire doesn't have relevant ground units and fighter pilot characters

I wish this series was longer, never thought i'd say this, but I feel the OVA was rushed.

>>162144704
It's not just the OVA's, the novels don't really go very deep into that either. Tanaka puts a lot of effort into portraying the organizational politics and the major characters, and everything else is secondary.
The OVA staff really deserves some kudos for making LoGH come alive.

>>162105143
You clearly don't know the power of slavery. Think about ancient Egypt and Persian empire.

>>162145022
What a letdown, it would be interesting to see some of the secondary tech of LoGH, but revamped, how would drone warfare fare in LoGH? that and among other things would nice.

>>162145101
>not ancient rome
>not the British empire

>>162145140
No, they didn't rely on slavery as much as Egypt and Persian did.

>>162145411
Really? Thats new to me, I've thought of modern colonialism as mass slavery and shit.

>>162119388
In the roman case it totally was though. They were imitating their idea of an aesthetic associated with a form of government they had once rejected.

>>162145140
I hope the remake will feature some more engineering porn. It seems likely, since the mechanical details you see in the OVA are almost entirely anime-original, so that's one point where the remake will have the freedom to change things around without losing touch with the novels.
Plus, there's the fact that CGI makes mechanical design cheaper to anime, and that Production IG will have to throw the enthusiasts a bone to counterbalance the backlash against the fujobaiting that's all but guaranteed to come.

>>162145543
Only the fighting and engineering will save us from the fujobaiting.

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Why, when people had freaking laser guns, were people fighting unarmoured people using fucking sticks?

You have to allow for a bit of unrealistic elements and artistic license. The medieval mixed with sci-fi aesthetic of the show was cool as fuck even if it didn't make an incredible amount of sense. Even then the farms depicted weren't completely absent of technology, they seemed to have fairly modern irrigation. They just depicted people massively tilling by hand to symbolise how underfoot they were. Sure they could have used a tractor or even a fucking ox, but it wouldn't have been as aesthetic.

>>162105714
Societies have produced surplus food since the start of recorded history. The proof of this is that there is recorded history. How the fuck would the historians get fed if there wasn't surplus food? Famine also still exists today on a smaller scale, especially for the poors.

>>162136670
>The bigger question is why did Phezzan fuck over the Alliance?

It became exceedingly clear the balance of power they were benefiting from had collapsed and they needed to get on the winning team ASAP. This was explained rather clearly in the series.

>>162146298
Schumacher's guys were growing bespoke hipster-friendly organic vegetables for whealthy Phezzani merchants, and the people in Westerland were living in a Disneyland-like folly intended to entertain its noble owners with the stylized image of a pastoral lifestyle.

I still think behind the scenes both the Empire and the alliance had proper mechanized agriculture, if only to feed their underclasses and the military.

Is there even any release date or new info about the 2017 project?

>>162146298
Read this >>162144283 >>162144078

We don't know how powerful infantry lazers are, only that they suck and bullets aren't as popular probably due to logistics, also most staff, which was not related to boarding didn't use armor, just clothing,or else both Yang and Kircheis would be alive and wearing armor.

>>162146453
I kinda disagree, if we take a look at earth, its population dwarfes Heinessen, the most urbanised planet we see, its possible most of these worlds are self sustaining and produce surplus to some degree. Its possible both the FPA and GE decided to build "wide" and not "tall", to have lots of worlds to occupy rather than few populated dense centers. After all, our world produces a lot of food, people may die of starvation in some parts, but its not enough to trigger societal colapse, its possible that Heinessen may have lots of farming fields just like earth does.

>>162133919
An Alaskan to Central American trade route is actually a fairly impressive feat that shows a fair degree of societal sophistication. Sure the natives were pretty primitive by virtually every other standard, and Europe had trade routes that could take goods from Oceania to Britain which is even more impressive, but it's still not that logistically easy to do that.

Too bad those same trade routes ended up being the death of the Natives and caused them to all get superaids when the filthy Wh*tes came with all their diseases. Thankfully their fate has taught us all the lesson that immigrants and globalisation destroy society.

What's the fuel source used in these super wars?

>>162146633
Heinessen is not all that urbanized. It's not Asimov's Planet Trantor or anything. Yang's honeymoon takes the newly wed couple to the countryside where they buy some milk on a farm, for example.
Now, while the worlds may be self-sustaining (and LoGH has examples to the contrary, like old-time Earth forcing the colonies into growing monocultures in the interest of increasing profits at the expense of the colonies' self-sustainability) the fleets most certainly are not, and need to be fed efficiently. Alongside normal products like sausages and aged wine, the novels also mention stuff like protein/sodium drinks and wheat gluten, so it seems like they do have industrial food production going.
As for building wide over tall, the novel confirms that, since humanity spread itself really wide and then lost interest, leaving the present day with a large number of habitable but underdeveloped frontier worlds.

>>162147034
>Heinessen is not all that urbanized
Yes, I know, but its the most urbanized country we get.
Also, the earth thing was the past, its highly possible the Earth-Sirius war era Earth, togheter with Galactic Republic were far more populous than our earth or Heinessen, my point is, the worlds of today (in LoGH-verse) are self sustaintable, since they need to bring lots of logistic ships and cargo ships.

And I know about piracy making colonization not viable, but Rudolf's Empire inherited the Republic's world they had, given his empire made a 300+ billion Empire into a initially 20-30 biliion (Pre-Reinhard takeover) people empire at the current day (in LoGH), its possible some of the more extreme industries died out as they didn't needed to sustain such high number of population. Its like the US switching populations with Canada while keeping the landspace, they suddenly have a bullshit surplus.

>>162147034
>>162147222

To extend on it, Earth may had its over population issue, however it was somewhat clean by the present time,It didn't had much pollution at all, probably due to the Terraist cleaning the world in a attempt of "look Earth is pretty again, make it capital pls"

>>162105143
>based on peasant labor using muscle

In the alliance, they were all " peasants"

Just because they were monarchists with a ruling class of elites doesn't mean they couldn't still be a functional modern society.

A King isn't a dictator, but even if they were acting as such that wouldn't necessarily mean that as a decent human being he couldn't lead a nation to great achievements and progress.

Now consider all the power struggles the alliance had at the hands of its corrupt politicians and the fact their fair and equal system constantly failed them.

And that most of the Galactic Empire's own 'power struggles' were quarrels between members of leader ship being deceitful in bids to acquire there own power, and not divisions between or uprisings of civilian populations due to issues of state, while most of the Alliances own issues were direct results of the democratic government handling situations poorly.

Although monarchism is inherently flawed in that it relies on one person to be intelligent, good an honest in a position that inevitably corrupts absolutely, and democracy is the fairest solution to hte people, with inherit flaws,
I really enjoy the way LotGH as a piece of art really lets you learn from it and teaches you while also giving you a front row seat to one of the best stories ever written.

>>162146994
Fusion reactors powered by an undisclosed fuel source. Fuel never comes up as an issue, not even when fleets are facing logistics problems (it's probably a lot like nuclear-powered ships where the crew will starve long before the reactor runs dry).
I guess deuterium/helium-3 become really easy to get once you have warp travel and access to fusion-scale power. See a juicy spectral signature out in the distance? Just warp on over and deploy giant mining machines and hydrogen-separation plants.

>>162147222
>they suddenly have a bullshit surplus
That sounds reasonable enough. It's likely that a population decline would also include some technology being lost and planets being abandoned permanently, but things would still be roomier overall. Could be the reason why the empire wasn't facing any serious economic problems while the FPA was at the point where kids were being drafted into the military and getting killed by the shoddily made bombs they were maintaining.

Why people don't use flamethrowers some more?

>>162145540
Having the political structure of an autocracy/kingship doesn't mean larping as a kingdom. If anything, it should be the reverse, as the Dominate was retaining roman-republican trappings albeit replacing the Princeps with a Dominus.

However, if you said that byzzie greeks were roleplaying romans, I'd believe you.

>>162145411
I don't think Persian empires relied on slaves much. I think it's one of the things Iranians today are proud about.

>>162148318
Zephyr particles.

>>162149173
They could be used as a zephyr denial area tho, if you see some dudes in armor,spray fire before they release the gas, if you releasedit first they're exploding the moment the let the zeps out.

>>162149305
Good point. The idea of spraying your own ship with Zephyr particles once an enemy boarded was stupid as the enemy could send suicide teams armed with firearms.

>>162149305
Well, I guess if the air was constantly on fire they wouldn't be able to use zephyr particles. But that shit would be too crazy even for Dwarf Fortress.

>>162149489
Some sort of internal turrets would be appreciated, but a reverse sprinker that spews fire seems a bit overkill. Also, if the air is always on fire, it will consume the air, also a bit of a bad one.
>>162149483
Using Zephyr on boarding is kinda a risky idea, boarding typically melts and drills part of the ship, this means the zephyr can prematurely explode shit. So, actual fire and flamethrowers by the staff would be a decent idea,especially since some ships seem to be made of bare steel.

>>162149483
The fact that the ship is getting boarded means that the enemy sees some value in keeping the ship intact for a while, probably to steal someone/something.
Otherwise, they'd "dock" a missle to it instead of a docking ship. (or use a boarding ship filled with bombs if it's somehow easy to hit the target ship with it).

>>162149608
There's still plenty of wiring, insulation, textile, plastic and juicy humans on board, so plenty to burn. Also, plenty of oxygen to steal from the life-support system.
Shipboard fires are a no-no, and they can turn into a big deal even in a ship surrounded on all sides by unlimited quantities of water.
A good ranged weapon for an environment like this would probably propel projectiles using electromagnets, compressed air or some sort of gas-generating reaction that doesn't trigger the zephyr particles.

>>162149971
>railguns
well,there is the logistic issue, also i assume balistics and high penetration stuff isn't usedto avoid ships being torn from insides, the only reason why both sides use it because its used for both defence and boarding, or perpahs the empire invented boarding to deal with power feulds,but they didn't wanted to rekt their own ships, just the personal and FPA's gear is just a copy ofit, idk.

Zephyr is triggered by heat, crossbows are used because friction is high to tear armor, but not enough to get "hot", its possible the ricochet of crossbow's bolt could ignite zephyr,but that would be Schevenkopf levels of skills.

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They were minor characters but I genuinely wish they lived a happy, fruitful life afterwards.

>>162150436
The ending would be improved 10fold if we get a epilogue telling what happened toeach and everyone of the characters.

>Fischner gets almost 0 screentime
>dies
>Yang relied on his abilities the most
Kinda weird that this guy is probably one of the most important if not the most crucial among his staff but we know almost nothing about him. They only gave him attention near his death and talked about how Yang wouldn't have made it without his battle formation and coordination skills.

>>162150747
Its weird how some stuff gets ignored in favor of others, like that fuckboi emil, he could've been replaced by a regular ass meido and it wouldn't change shit.

>>162150826
I thought Emil was to show Reinhard succumbing to pederasty because of missing Kircheis but apparently the writer claims there was nothing gay going on with Reinhard and Kircheis or anyone else

>>162151339
I thought it was meant to showReinhard's mind was deteriorating, but given he remained somewhat a good tactician.

>>162105143
The Alliance was only a few hundred years old and a third the size of the Empire. For all practical purposes, they were significantly outproducing the Empire on a per capita level, and for all of the FPA's corruption, its citizens were generally more idealistic and dedicated to the concept of democracy as a whole, as opposed to the Empire which is basically an interplanetary personality cult surrounding the Goldenbaums/Reinhard.

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>>162151499
reinhard has autism, and is always in need of a guardian to clean his diaper.

>>162151776

I dunno, Weddingcrasher Oberstein seems worse.

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>>162151886
>talking shit about best boy

>>162151886
Oberstein has a butler to change his diapers and a dog to lick his tears.

>>162151936
I don't deny that he is awesome, but Adorbstein never lead a fleet battle, which is fucking weird by LoGH standards, also has he ever been in a fight? and I don't mean limply allowing Bittenfield grab him.

>>162152189
Oberstein isn't a fleet leader. He is a longtime intelligence officer who moved over to staff officer positions in the later part of his career.
That's part of what's special about him, he got into the admiralty staff without actually leading any soldiers into combat.

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>>162150747
I actually really liked how Reinhard also realized admirals who were in the rear and dealing with logistics were equally as important as those on the front lines grabbing honor.

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>>162152189
>>162152292
Combat is an inefficient use of resources and a pointless waste of lives.

*winks*

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>>162144122
From what I remember melee weapons are power weapons in the novels, with the exception of some purposefully employed low tech weapons like crossbows.

>>162152498
>power weapons
What?

>>162152498
>>162152566
I did not get that impression from the novels.
The axes seemed like ordinary battle axes made of some sort of carbon crystal. The sizes are given in centimeters, I think in the part where Ovlesser uses his large battle axe for the first time.

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>>162109369
>>it's a "julian watches the history channel" episode

>>162152632
Eh, perhaps metal with (synthetic) diamond dust, its used for cutting shit.

>>162152666
>>162109369
Funny enough, it matches, you know its the history channel because it was fucking Nazi Week

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>>162134996
>>162135147
do not

>>162127659
How is the animation quality with Production IG? I think I have watched 3 anime series in the last 5 years so I am out of the loop.

>>162152674
It has the potential to be good, if the production has a decent budget behind it.
They have stuff like GiTS and Patlabor in their history, and recent stuff like Kabaneri and Atom: The Beginning shows that they can still handle action sequences and mechanical stuff.

>>162150747
Maybe that guy was just an excuse for the Alliance guys not winning fights due to formation bullshit when they were heavily outnumbered near the end of the series.

>>162147319
Whenever there were orbital shots of Earth all the landmasses were brown.

>>162154384
Shit really? I remember the episode where they raid the terraists base, the skies where blue and non polluted. Or was that a flashback or image from the past.

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>>162132114
>Visiting a thread for a decades old series when you haven't even watched half of it
Jesus christ anon

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>>162154477

>>162144704
>there was some sort of alien ruins in episode 1

There were?

>>162154554
Fugg, but still, it was an flashback/history channel or current time for them?
>>162154588
Yeah, when the narrator is talking about the war in between two nations.

>>162154619
I think it was current time. You have a screencap of the alien thing or something?

>>162154704
Nope,just rewatch the first episode m8, or i can do it, will see if I can find it

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>>162154477
>>162154554
>>162154384
>>162147319
Watching the OVA and reading the novels, I got the idea that Earth was and still is a dump. The picture also looks like the sea levels rose and bit into the continents.

>>162154761
Hmm, I thought they repaired the earth tho, the terraists guys built a massive temple and such.

>>162154704
I checked, its the first episode,just check youtube, unless this is some weird ruin of some mad terraists.

>>162154704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrTJnLjjZTI
It's the very first scene.
Looks like generic human ruins in the desert, nothing particularly alien about it other than the apparently made-up writing system.
Given that the novels don't even get close to hinting at alien life, I see no reason to assume that it's aliens.

>>162154872
The terraist headquarters is actually the same bunker used by the Terran government and their families in the final stages of the war with the Federation. The Federation rigged the water supply and caused the the bunker to flood, killing allmost everyone inside and ending the war. All the Terraists really had to do was drain the bunker and fix the machinery, it was all dug out and ready to serve as an HQ housing a large number of people.

>>162154987
Well, given the republic and empire are english/american and german, they wouldn't have that made up writing system,but what else it could be then?

Also, yeah, i get it now,looks terraism didn't really repair it, which i find it weird since they made all that insane plan that got Yang killed. I checked the wikia to seeif they built it or not,looks like i was wrong.

>>162154987
Yeah, I looked it up.

Kind of odd. Come to think of it, the fact that there's no alien life to speak of is really weird. There's a bunch of habitable worlds they didn't need to be terraformed but they never show any alien species, and it seems like humans control a large portion of the galaxy without having encountered anything else.

Honestly a sequel covering some sort of first contact war that goes all Ender's Game with it would be really cool. With how much it's hammered home that humans have such trouble communicating with each other and the conflicts born out of that, it could be an interesting progression.

>>162155151
>Lets check this guys
>Brutal warfare
>years go on
>A genocide thats even more brutal and kills 200+billion people
>L-l-lets give a time guys
>Full khornate shit with axes and bows, lazers don't even cauterise wounds, make sure you'll bleed

I would say the ayy lmaos are probably trying to get away from humanity, given its a ability to brutalise it each other.

Also, aliens could ask some of our questions, such as no AI and stuff like the ones from here >>162144704

>>162155092
The ruins signify that old stuff fades away. People proably gave a shit about that old building at some point, maybe enough to fight and die over it, but now it's a bunch of crumbling ruins on forgotten frontier planet.
The made-up alphabet just means that they had a background artist draw "ancient ruins in the desert" and he just winged it without worrying too much about research.

>>162155151
One of the better alien invasion novels I got to read actually had the humans remain divided through the invasion and for generations afterwards. They all resented the aliens, but did not present a united front.
That makes more sense to me than a humanity that magically unites into one the moment an external actor shows up.

>>162151936
what the fuck was his problem?

>>162155361
So, old stuff for the sake of metaphor? I really overthought about it.

Also,that mentality is the result of WW2, commies and captalists fighting Hitler, they belived tensions would escalate in war and a external enemy would cause people to unite,which is kinda funny because the FPA and GE did some unnoficial team ups aginst terraism, such as Julian in the empire raid

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>>162154546
Oi I'm on 34 myself
Allow us newfags to enjoy things

>>162151886
I like Oberstein, but that scene was incredibly uncomfortable to watch.

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>>162156806
And I only finished the series 3 days ago myself. My original comment was just implying that if you're going to visit a thread for an old series you haven't finished yet, you shouldn't be surprised if you're spoiled on something.

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>>162105143
You really need to listen to the books. The first one is almost 100% backstory that is missed in OVA and Movies. It explains in detail how The Empire gained its status in the galaxy.

https://www.amazon.com/Legend-Galactic-Heroes-Vol-Dawn/dp/1421584948

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>>162157025
how did it took you fags here to finish the show?
2 years for me, fuck.

>>162157296
how long*

>>162157296
I'd say around 2 months, took a break for a week or so around episode 60.

>>162135271

Wasn't the implication here that Felix would follow in his father's footsteps and challenge Alexander to the throne?

>>162157296
Like 2.5 months. I watched some episodes a week, then burned throught the final 8 or so episodes in one day.