>better direction >better ost >better art >better

>>161884226
The story gets convoluted once it splits from the manga. It also has inferior production values despite its better art.

Because its plot is not absolutely fucking stupid.

better story

Honestly the only thing that is markedly better is the music. The original series has an amazing soundtrack.

>>161884226
They aren't edge lords?
Dead mom becomes a homunculus, Rose gets a rape baby, who the fuck is Lyra and why do I care? Bradley killing his son. Alchemy is powered by dead people from our world and for some reason The Holocaust...

Eh. FMA:B has issues with poorly worked in comedy but it's closer to the manga and the final acts aren't totally moronic. Also Envy and Gluttony are far more interesting.

>>161884375
>>161884415
FMA 2004 plot wasn't too bad before the nazis appeared.

>>161884462
>FMA 2004 plot wasn't too bad before the nazis appeared.
You mean up until the half-point of the whole series, when it finally started its anime-original shitshow?

>>161884462
That you have to say that though is a big problem.

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-mustang isn't totally useless little emo
-best girl doesn't appear at all in 2003 version

>>161884580
Hawkeye was in FMA tho

>>161884226
Because FMA 03 is boring garbage.

>>161884520
The nazis only happened in the end. Before that it was just searching the philosopher's stones and melodrama about homunculus being failures of resurrections.

Sloth was really nice, it was great to see her against Edward and Hoenheim. Same for Wrath x Izumi moments.

>>161884618
Yeah, but she was kind of boring. Brotherhood gave us her actually doing a lot of shit like balling around with Barry.

>>161884226
You forgot the most important one, better story.

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>>161884580
>best girl doesn't appear at all in 2003 version
You posted a wrong pic.

>>161884226
Because it has
>better direction
>better ost
>better art
>better season 1
>better openings
>better endings

You literally just stated quite a few reasons as to why Brotherhood is better. Are 03 fags really so retarded as to disprove whatever point they're trying to make in the opening post?

>>161884703
Still a worse execution than the manga. And for everything else 2003 is better.

2003 is better in almost every category but B sure has some good sakuga.

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>3D Envy
FMABfags will defend this

>>161885014
Eh its poorly shaded but the concept is cool and over all Envy is just way better in Brotherhood.

>>161884226
Story, main villians and ending were utter shit. Even had filler garbage in the first half before deviating from the manga.

And Brotherhood has better animation.

2003 ruined Hoeinhiem's character as a cheating asshole. Their fore it's shit.

>>161884226
Lets start with the Homunculi

Basically reproductions of people who died at some point spitting in the whole "All is one one is all/can't bring back the dead etc" moral that is the backbone of the FMA story.

"Wrath" is a kid who's claim to fame is crying for his mommy and throwing temper tantrums. Because when i think of "Wrath" surely that is the first thing that comes to mind. Also he's basically Izumi's dead son because fuck that whole all is one and one is all bullshit that Izumi has been drilling into the heads of the Elric bros, right?

"Lust" Recites emo sounding poem after killing a guy who was "in love" with her in some pointless filler episode , she's basically the GF of Scar's older bro ( what i coincidence!!!!) because fuck that whole all is one one is all bullshit!

"Pride" Furor Bradley who is a certifiable badass motherfucker who takes on the fucking military armed with tanks by himself and wins, loses a fight with Mustang when Selim at random brings his one weakness into the room because reasons! Allowing Mustang to destroy it and win the day! How convenient!

"Sloth" Called this yet works as the Furor's secretary and is constantly plotting and putting things into motion. Also has Water Based powers. Also she's Ed and Al's mom because fuck that whole all is one...hey you get it by now right?

"Envy" Ed and Al's long lost brother!!! Fuck off!

Then there is Dante, who sets everything in motion because "muh youth!" and gets taken out by fucking Gluttony of all people who was fucking terrified not only of Father but of Pride.

Oh and then there is the whole Rose getting raped by the Amestrian military because "rape makes you deep!"

Just so much retardation in this shit i would need at least six more posts to cover it all. FMA 2003 was good up until Greed's death( hey did Edward just kill somebody? Yes, yes he did!) and then it went full retard!

>>161884703
>Better story

Yeah if you liked Fanfics from Deviant art

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>>161885131
Bortherhood has a better lineart but the actual animation is worse.

>>161885089
It is fucking shit compared to what it is supposed to look like. And it is even worse if you see it moving. Why the fuck does it even have a horse face?

>>161885373
Yeah, but boo hoo. It's not as good as it could have been but it's still better the 2003.

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>>161885373

People will complain about the CG but they wont complain about half robot archer because of muh nostalgia.

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>>161884226
Pic related is the reason 2003 will always be the inferior one

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>>161885451
At least dragon Envy was properly drawn and animated instead of being a poorly done cellshading monster with awkward movements.

>>161885575
>>161885584
Archer wasn't an important character anyway.

>>161885575
Fuck, I forgot how fucking dumb shit got in 2003

>>161884226
That's all subjectively wrong.
It also borders objectivity in most of those cases.

>>161884715
>>161884580
You mean Panda loli.

>>161885642
>At least dragon Envy was properly drawn and animated instead of being a poorly done cellshading monster with awkward movements.

I repeat "boo hoo"

yes, visual quality matters in animation but fuck me running would I really let that excuse an incredibly inferior story? Heel fucking no.

>>161885642

It doesnt matter if he was an important character its still fucking stupid. If your going to watch a WWII movie you dont want to have a fully dressed clown apear in the last 15 minutes and honk his little horn at the nazis in the background for the rest of the show. Its a stupid design for the setting and in general that only gets in the way and distracts you even if it is just a background character.

>>161885225
>pitting in the whole "All is one one is all/can't bring back the dead etc"
They weren't resurrected, they were just artificial humans who looked like the people the alchemists wanted to resurrect. Basically dopplegangers or evil twins.

>>161885575
>>161885584
Holy shit I forgot about this. What the hell were they thinking?

>>161885835
Automail is a thing in FMA, Archer just got a half body automail. Not a big thing.

>>161885954
Ed getting an automail arm and leg and being able to use it within a year was a big deal. This kind of cheapens it. And it's still incredibly stupid.

>>161885954

Its over half of his entire body and he has a fucking machine gun IN HIS FUCKING MOUTH! Its fucking stupid as shit.

http://fma.wikia.com/wiki/Frank_Archer

"Archer, now having an automail-enhanced body, attacks the place with a machine gun installed in his mouth"

"Despite having the same canon for Automail as the manga—in which it says it takes at least 2-3 years for mere limb rehabilitation, half a year at the absolute least—Archer is somehow able to replace more than half of his entire body in a very short amount of time. It could possibly be the reason as to why he became so unstable, but he, technically, shouldn't even be able to move his new body."

>>161885879
And yet Lust began to have some form of "memory" of her past life and took a shine to Scar toward the end. Along with Wrath having an attachment to Izumi and when he died was shown running into Izumi's arms in heaven or whatever, showing that he was basically her son.

>>161885575
>>161885584
People will defend this fuckery and claim it was some form of deep story telling that Brotherhood didn't have

>>161886154
>>161886011
The goverment has way more resources than a village in the middle of nowhere. Maybe they even used philosopher stone to make it work.

>>161886188
Izumi created Wrath so he was his son in a way. And Lust was created by Scar's brother so Scar was some kind of uncle for her.

>>161886356

I dont care what kind of bullshit magic your using a machine gun down your throat is fucking stupid. Archer is the tip top of stupid shit in 03 along with NAZIS.

>>161886356
Quit making excuses for shit tier writing and plot points. I like Bones but they should never be allowed to write an adaption if the source material is unfinished. That was you avoid Courage Punches and GERMANY. My Hero Academia is broken up into seasons, that's how it should always be done. God knows what kind of fuckery BONES would come up with had that not been the case.

>people keep complaining about the plot while it wasn't even mentioned in the OP

>a literal telenova soap opera family melodrama about daddy's immortal ex-girlfriend
>good story

>>161886636
If the story is shit then your anime is shit as well. Applying "good direction" and those other fluff that is there to primarily support the story as a good substitute for a non-convoluted one is the same excuse Snyderfags give to his clusterfuck movies. A gold-colored shit is still shit.

>>161884456
>it's lighthearted
>it's "faithful"
>it ended (thank god)

Pretty much the only three reasons to watch Brotherhood desu. Brotherhoodfags unironically use the last as a reason for why it's better than long running shonen.

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>>161885584
2003 has one shitty plot point. Brotherhood is fundamentally shit and even worse...dull. Its homunculi may not have meme potential but they are boring as dirt lacking the absolute bare minimum in terms of character writing and motivation.

>>161886841

Because long running shounen are absolute garbage? If i wanted to watch a sitcom that goes on for ages without actually going anywhere or resolving anything ill just watch gilligans island.

One piece is on how many episodes and how much of it has been filler shit? How far along are they to actually filling the main goal of the show?

>>161887098
Bleach, Naruto and Dragon Ball go somewhere. This is a bullshit argument.

They also have much better fights and villains.

>>161887145

>better fights and villains
>dragonball

Thats fucking funny. Besides most of the problem with shonen is that it takes so fucking long to do anything important and there is no concrete ending. Even naruto which FINALLY got to its ending just fucking reboots itself to keep the merchandising train going. Running a show for 20 years is fucking stupid.

>>161885688
There is no such thing as objectivity when it comes to art.

>>161885225
Okay, I'm not the biggest fan of 2003 either, but homunculi being failed human transmutations is the best plot point in the entire franchise by far.

>>161884580
But Dante only appeared in 03

>>161885225
>"All is one one is all/can't bring back the dead etc" moral that is the backbone of the FMA story.
But the very first thing that happens in the series is the brothers bringing back a dysfunctional version of their mom.

A hommunculi is really no better since it's still an inferior existence to an actual human.

>>161886818
Execution is all that matters in the audiovisual medium. If you are only interested in the plot just read a book.

>>161887800
It was never their mom to begin with.

>>161884226
majority of your points where the soundtrack, which is only your taste in music

>>161887951
For the openings and endings it isn't just the songs, the visuals and how they match the music is also better.

>>161887358
>even implying that any brotherhood villain could compete with frieza
>the single most iconic shonen villain ever made

>Besides most of the problem with shonen is that it takes so fucking long to do anything important

What a shitty "pro." If a manga is actually good wanting it to end quickly should be the least of your concerns.

And also rubbish. Since most shonen consists of multiple arcs and what are basically short stories in which a great deal happens.

>>161888005

The short stories boils down to monster of the week tropes that go nowhere and do nothing in the setting or end up being CURRY OF LIFE. Its better to have a shorter series with well defined plot points and one really good arc than 100 mediocre ones that overall are just giant wastes of time.

And dont bring up dragonball and say its high quality without some amazing amount of sarcasm. Everything about that show defined shounen for decades and is exactly why its garbage. Between the powerlevel bullshit and inane padding that was thrown into it there is nothing watchable or enjoyable about it in the least. Not to mention that the entire series has no fucking sense of danger. If someone dies you just wish them back to life. Death has no meaning and its retarded.

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>>161884226
meh.

the first few episodes were part of the almighty manga.

>better direction
the manga is an amazing piece of art full of intricate plotting and tightly woven story writing

and so FMAB is an adaptation of that. That's why FMAB>>>>>>>>FMA 2003

>>161884226
Why can't we like both

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03fags need to understand that the Manga is truly based and since the FMAB is mostly the manga.

>it's based automatically

>>161888419
The manga is awesome but FMAB is a poorly adaptation of it even if they kept the plot.

Manga > 2003 > FMAB

>>161888519
But I still enjoy both tho

>>161888536
>Half fanfiction better than the manga adaptation

Laugh everytiem

>>161888655
An anime is more than a plot. FMAB was really lazy.

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>>161888206
>And dont bring up dragonball and say its high quality without some amazing amount of sarcasm

FMA cannot match Toriyama in choreography, art, or even in the context of its fights. It's villains were people with no connection to the protag so there was no emotional pay off either.

>Its better to have a shorter series with well defined plot points and one really good arc than 100 mediocre ones that overall are just giant wastes of time

Brotherhood was a mediocre story of medium length. You can bring up Curry of Life (filler) but you can also bring up Zabuza or Water 7.

>>161884730
>brotherhood
>better ost

Not in this timeline.

03 is literally better

>>161888699
And FMA 03 was plain emoshit

>dude rape lmao

>>161884226
I don't get it. You yourself listed all the answers in your own greentext.

>>161888005
All good stories have an ending Anon.

There's no need for going for some long haul if the author already has the ending set in place

>>161884226
I prefer the 2004 for having original content, when the brotherhood was released I had already read the manga, so I did not have the patience to watch anime, but it is a very solid adaptation, for the little that I watched

>>161888710
>Brotherhood mediocre story of medium length

Dragonball is a basic story and long length

>>161888868
Sherlock Holmes doesn't have an ending.

>>161888710

>Dragonball
>emotional payoff

Its like your not even trying to have a valid point. Besides most of the villans in dragonball have little to no relation to the main heroes aside from being suuuuuuper evil and trying to destroy planets or universes and shit. That and the whole we used your race for super soldiers and shit. There isnt a real reason for any of the villans to be interested in the heroes in the least. At least FMA had the search for the philosopher stone logically reach Father since he is the one that first made them.

And for every good arc in most shounen there are 5 others that are garbage. Listing two good arcs in a show of 600 episodes isnt an accomplishment.

>>161888710
>It's villains were people with no connection to the protag so there was no emotional pay off
What is envy and scar

>>161888839
It was more emotional and there is nothing bad about it.

>>161888710
How I see it.

Toriyama's work is fine. But Arakawa also pays attention to detail and backgrounds as well (if not better). As well as good panel placing as well

>>161884226

Because halfway through it fucked off from the source material entirely and became a literal fanfiction

The best version would have been FMA 2004 but with FMAB's loyalty to the manga

>>161884226
I don't.

>>161888958
Never watched it actually lol

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One of the worst villians ever created

>>161889170
lol

>>161889170
she is fucking great my dude

>>161889170
But also one of the hottest.

>>161889005
A monster design and a hackneyed conversion to the hero's side. With Envy its the same as with all the homunculi; making them failed transmutations fixed this problem.

>>161888964
Frieza was the guy who orphaned the main character and destroyed all but three of his race. Vegeta and co were that race and served as a dark mirror of what Goku could have become. Even Cell's entire reason for existence was to kill Goku for a presumed ill done to Gero, eventually causing Goku to arrive at the conclusion that the Earth would be safer without him.

>>161884226

>This anime adaption we're doing is pretty good

>Let's make the whole second half and the ending entirely filler episodes

Somebody needed to be fired for this

>>161884730
If there's one thing that pisses me off about Brotherhood is that the OST fucking sucks compared to the original anime. Hellsing Ultimate had the same problem.

>>161889411
same for the original F/SN anime

>>161889375
It was different since the begining and endings can't be filler. Do you even know what filler means?

>>161889411
>full orchestal vs shy shitty background solos
What were they thinking, missing Bratja hurts me the most https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXQLrkW33f0

>>161885575
>muh nostalgia

Nigga, people hated that shit back in 2004 too.

>>161889455

Fine anon, I'll appease your autism. "Non-canon episodes"

>>161884226
Cause Brotherhood ending was very satisfying to me. Ed giving up his alchemy to save Alphonse showed how much he had grown as a person.

>>161889663
It seems you also fail to know what canon means. FMA 2003 had its own canon since the begining.

>>161888958
It did but people complained that Holmes was dead, so the author brought him back and wrote more stories.

>>161889746

>it's own canon

Oh, you're just retarded. My mistake carry on.

>>161889827
In fiction, canon is the material accepted as officially part of the story in an individual universe of that story.

In FMA Arakawa's 4komas are not canon while the 2003 anime is its own universe slightly based in the manga.

>>161889677
literally how? it was the most nothing sacrifice you could possibly have

>>161890210
Especially since without Father alchemy was impossible.

Brotherhood > 2003 > 2004.

>>161884226
>Why do people think that FMAB is better than FMA 2004?
Fixed that for you.

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>people actually think 03 had a better ending
My fucking sides. Brotherhood had plenty of problems, but at least the ending was satisfying. I remember at the end of the 03 movie, I felt unsatisfied as fuck. Also I have no clue why they tried to push Rose so hard in the 03 version. I'm glad she stayed a minor character in the manga and Brotherhood.

>>161890290
Not really, without Father alchemy is actually easier.

>>161890338
nakama punching god to death and then banging the lead heroine is not a satisfying ending.

>>161890584
it's your bone stock happy ending and that = satisfying to most people

>>161890584
I'd take it over whatever the fuck the 03 version was supposed to be.

>>161890338
>people actually think 03 had a better ending
Literally no one said this.

>>161890730
They're both terrible though

>>161885014
Nobody defends 3D anything.

>>161888710
>It's villains were people with no connection to the protag so there was no emotional pay off either

The entire system was the villain. Stop speed reading.

>>161886841
Knowing when to end and not overstaying its welcome is a mark of a good story. Arakawa told the story she wanted to tell and didn't drag it out. Imagine if Bleach ended after the SS arc.

>>161890403
Alchemy was only possible because father sued his philosopher's stone power through the country. As a result the cast had to put 5 pieces of paper in the right place through the city to let them use alchemy. I'm fairly sure that this only allowed them to use alchemy in Central as long as the pieces of paper were in place.

Personally that whole paper thing was stupid but since the writer included enough foreshadowing I can't call it an asspull.

>>161891761
>Imagine if Bleach ended after the SS arc
It'd still be the hot garbage it's considered today.

>>161892247
Explain Chink alchemy.

>>161892247
Father was blocking alchemy's energy but not the one from Earth's core which Hoenheim discovered later and tought in Xing. But the blocking was solved even before Father's death.

>>161884226
Most people I know who like Brotherhood never watched the original, and are unlikely to because
a) they've heard it's worse
b) standard definition

2004 series obviously has better music, and I thought the pseudo-Chinese characters appearing out of nowhere in Brotherhood seemed a bit weird compared with 2004 continuing with a similar theme to the beginning, but I guess both are good

>>161892605
Kinda retarded reason not to watch a series, the original series has so much character. The original human transmutation scene is far better and way more horrifying.

But each to their own i guess, maybe i'm just a nostalgiafag.

>>161892605
I watched the original FMA in 2003 when it was brand new. I read the manga after it ended cause I wanted more, and that's when I found out the original story was much different than the anime. I was thrilled when Brotherhood was announced cause I heard it was going to follow the manga closely this time, and the manga was gearing up to finish by then and I was super into it. After the confusion of the first ep the only complaint I had was it rushed through the early part of the story, which I felt the 2003 anime did better, but by episode 15 or so it slowed down and I had absolutely no complaints. One of the best shounen adaptations I've ever seen, I put it alongside Yu Yu Hakusho, which might be my favorite even despite the really shitty final arc.

>>161892408
It was never mentioned whether Ed would also lose his ability to use this ability. Also it would have made more sense if the main cast learned this so Father couldn't remove their powers.

>>161892537
>Father was blocking alchemy's energy

Then why could no one use alchemy when he stopped using his powers?

>but not the one from Earth's core which Hoenheim discovered later and tought in Xing.

He should have taught it to his children as well.

>But the blocking was solved even before Father's death.

By putting 5 pieces of paper in Central.

>>161887097
Yeah they don't recite emo poems after killing people how "dull"

>>161892740
>Then why could no one use alchemy when he stopped using his powers?
But they could, and did frequently use it after the blocking finished.

>>161887707
Problem with that plot point is that their very existence means the human transmutation wasn't a failure. Also It makes sense why the homunculi follow Father, why are they following Dante in 2003 version? Some Homunculus is born so it just goes to Dante because reasons?

>>161887097
Gee it's almost like the homunculi were never going to be very important characters. They were just monsters for the most part. Only Wrath and Greed had any real characterization due to their antagonism with each other and how much they interacted with the main cast. Your problem is you hold the 2003 anime as a template for how "it should be" and never even considered what the original story was actually doing with the characters. You just kept demanding that it do the same things as the 2003 anime.

>>161892717
Yeah, I feel like the rushing through of the beginning kind of ruined the emotional deaths early on in the series in Brotherhood

It makes sense that they rushed it, since they needed to get to the new material as fast as possible, but it felt a bit spoiled in the long-run.

>>161892740
>Then why could no one use alchemy when he stopped using his powers?
Do you mean after Father died? Because the story ended and fighting was over, but everyone but Edward still could.

>>161887707
It's one of those things that sounds cool when you're 12 but then you think about it for a bit and it doesn't make any sense at all. In the manga the homunculi are just cast offs of Father's personality, the parts he removed to purify himself, and he deliberately crafted them to have different abilities so they could better serve him in his goals. In the 2003 anime they just sort of get powers for no reason and there's also exactly seven of them for some reason and they are themed after the Seven Deadly Sins for some reason, and the biggest "some reason" of all is they obey Dante because... reasons.

>>161892950
Or maybe having seven potentially deep and great characters that impact the story and give more weight to everything is *better* than them all being paper thin and generic. Father is shit, the Homunculi needed better characterization to fill that void.

>>161892922
Dante found them and feed them philosopher stone. Since they needed it to not being horrible half dead looking creatures they helped her to get more.

>>161888869
Original content does equal good. Especially when it completely misses the point of the source material

>>161893053
To me though, what I wanted out of Brotherhood was adaptations of the manga parts the 2003 anime never got to. I wanted to see the Xingese, I wanted to see Fort Briggs and Olivier Armstrong animated. Brotherhood delivered on that. I was also very much into the story of the manga, the world building it had was so interesting and expansive, and the 2003 anime, mostly because it didn't get very far into the manga before diverging and thus didn't have access to later information, the world was so cramped and constrained and not very interesting. They had to do a lot with the characters they had because there wasn't much else to do.

>>161893100
All of that is explained though, maybe you should actually watch the first anime instead of hating on it "for reasons."

the manga is just a generic battle shounen, albeit better than most. 03 was not, and it was better. The irony of this whole 12 year old thing is that is who Brotherhood is actually made for.

>>161889350
> making them failed transmutations fixed this problem.

No it didn't in fact their very existence again mean you can create life and transmutations work.

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Only thing I remember from 03 is that Rose was made relevant for some reason and that she had a rape baby, something about our world and nazis, and the epilogue where Ed is shown to have lived the rest of his life in our world and his grandchildren or great grandchildren somehow ended up being mini versions of himself, Al and Winry.

>>161891527
And the entire system was boring and shit

Father has no character whatsoever. Neither do the homunculus besides Wrath; Greed too, but he was better in the first anime by far. Greedling is fucking lame, fight me

>>161893263
They really don't have powers pertaining to the sins at all in either iteration aside from fatty. the fact that there are seven, literally who cares? is there a law somewhere on the number of antagonists in a story?

The reason they followed dante is because there were like smack addicts for the fake philosopher stones and dante is the one who fed them

>>161890668
>lol come on Alphonse! Let's live in Germany now!

>b-but brother you could just close the gate from the other side and what about Windy

>who?

>>161893146
The manga has far more characters than the 2003 anime does. The only reason you think the homuculi "deserve" better is because that's what the 2003 anime did. If you had started with Brotherhood or the manga you'd probably be wondering why anyone gives a shit about the homunculi, because in the original version of the story they were not really important characters, they were just henchmen. To me, your insistence that they should have some bigger role just seems absurd.

>>161893465
I think his point is that the entire antagonist team in the brotherhood story is bland and boring as fuck, which they are. You can have all the cool little interesting characters in the world but it won't make up for a lame villain.

>>161893263
>All of that is explained though
No it really isn't. There's no logical explanation for it anywhere. It's just a bunch of BS that Bones had to whip up to explain the arbitrariness of everything. It doesn't flow logically from the lore of the story. People who defend this aspect of the story really have no clue how proper world building works.

>>161893354
>Ed is shown to have lived the rest of his life in our world and his grandchildren or great grandchildren somehow ended up being mini versions of himself, Al and Winry
Did this imply that he found that world's Winry? If so then I guess Al went balls deep in Winry since Ed left them behind and he was the next best thing for her. Regardless I still liked the manga/brotherhood ending much better. I don't care if it was a generic happy ending, I'd take that over some forced contrived shit that was 03's.

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>>161893465
>main villains doesn't need a bigger role in the story

>>161893523
>the entire antagonist team in the brotherhood story is bland and boring as fuck
Wrath is far more interesting to me in Brotherhood than anyone in the 2003 anime. Envy is also much more hateable in the manga than he was in the 2003 anime. He just one of those pathetic scumbag characters that perfectly riles up the audience. But most importantly the manga (and Brotherhood) had a far more interesting plot with far more coherent world building.

>>161893360
> Father has no character whatsoever

This is bullshit, either that PR you're somehow confusing him with Dante. Who was basically a generic Disney villain who's only goal is to stay young and beautiful.

The whole "dwarf in the flask" story set up Father's motivations quite well and make him a far more interesting villain than Dante could ever hope to be. Greedling alone shits all over just about every character in FMA: Fanfic edition

>>161893591
Now I'm wondering if you even read the manga if you're calling the Homunculi main villains. Father was the arch villain of the series, the ultimate antagonist force driving most of the plot. The seven homunculi were just his henchmen. Half of them died well before the finale and barely got any screen time. In what sense do you call these people "main villains"? I would consider Kimblee a "Main villain" before any of the homunculi bar Wrath.

>>161893465
Yeah who gives a shit if the entire driving antagonistic force, in which the story is focused around especially more-so in the manga / Brotherhood, is interesting or not. Pfft, normies expecting good characters because other platforms and media sources did it

>>161893680
>The whole "dwarf in the flask" story set up Father's motivations quite well
literally what were they because I cannot remember a single thing other than "i wanna know everything" which is as generic as it gets

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>>161893621
Yup!

>>161893100
>they just sort of get powers for no reason
Because they eat philosopher stone.

>they obey Dante because... reasons
Because she took care of them and they all need philosopher stone to survive.

>there's also exactly seven of them for some reason and they are themed after the Seven Deadly Sins for some reason
As if the manga gave a real reason about this.

>>161893523
Yes because making them all super emo was the way to go! Making "Wrath" a whiny bitch who cries for his mommy. So "interesting"

Father was more imposing than Dante.

>>161893465
Are you kidding me, I *did* start with the manga. Or rather, I watched two episodes on Adult Swim when it first aired in like 04 and then read the manga up until I caught up, and followed it for fucking years after. I doubt you did the same, you elitist who holds his opinion above others, fuck

Were you there when the chapter with Ling becoming Greed came out? Probably not. Were you around when people MANAGED TO FUCKING FIGURE OUT SELIM WAS PRIDE way, way before the chapter came out on GameFAQs on the anime boards? Doubt it.

I followed that shit from like the first few years bud, you didn't

>>161893698
Henchmen aren't villains? They are good guys now? Envy killed Maes.

>>161893621
Both Wrath and Envy's deaths were more satisfying as well.

>>161893773
kinda fuck themselves over though when alchemy jesus gets his ass beat by a manlet in a literal fistfit

>>161893698
The homunculi are literally pieces of Father embodied and removed from him. All of them, including Father, (Wrath withstanding) are boring as hell.

>>161893699
>who gives a shit if the entire driving antagonistic force
I do, which is why Brotherhood is more interesting to me. Father is far more coherent as an antagonist than Dante. His plans are woven into the story from its inception. His actions subtly and unsubtly shape the events of the story from its very beginning. He is a believable arch villain for the series to have, and moreover nothing he does seems arbitrary or bullshitted to try and get rid of plotholes.

Also I don't really think the 2003 anime did justice to any of the characters. It certainly did SOMETHING with the homunculi like Lust, who had barely any character at all in the manga, but the actually important characters like Mustang, Ed, Scar, etc were manhandled and had their arcs either dropped or completely changed.

>>161893741
>As if the manga gave a real reason about this.
It did. Hoenheim literally explains it during his confrontation with Father. He wanted to get rid of the sins that made humans imperfect in his eyes since his entire goal was to be the perfect being.

>>161893741
> As if the manga gave a real reason about this.

Actually it did. As the homunculi were all parts of him that represented those traits that he expelled and unlike 2003 fanfic version they actually fit their namesakes

>>161893845
>Father is far more coherent as an antagonist than Dante.
so what was his grand motivation because like I said all I remember is that "I wanna know everything" bit.

>>161893810
Envy, like most of the homunculi except Wrath, was just an extension of Father's will. He had no volition, he did what was required of him, his only trace of individuality was his malice, which seemed to belong solely to him. And that's what made him so despicable. At least in the manga. In the 2003 anime he was just an angsty faggot.

>>161893621
2003 Lust > Manga Lust
2003 Gluttony < Manga Gluttony
2003 Envy < Manga Envy
2003 Wrath < Manga Wrath
2003 Pride > Manga Pride
2003 Sloth > Manga Sloth
2003 Greed = Manga Greed

>>161884226
Why the hell was FMA 2004 more faithful to the concept of equivalent exchange than the source material?

Dante sucked, but at least she wasn't a typical generic RPG end boss with no motivation who gets beat down by the lame shounen protagonist.

03 handled things far more realistically and down to earth despite LOL NAZIS

>>161893923
>2003 Gluttony < Manga Gluttony
forget the rest of your list, how can you even make this comparison. they are exactly the same in both iterations, a brainless fatass that eats everything

So basically 03 is hated solely because it's not "the manga story" despite being better?

>>161893881
>>161893898
>He wanted to get rid of the sins that made humans imperfect
Which match our world's seven sins for no reason. Also some authors also wrote about more sins like Sorrow.

>unlike 2003 fanfic version they actually fit their namesakes
>2003 Pride was arrogant
>2003 Wrath was angry
>2003 Sloth was calm
Manga Wrath wasn't angry at all and manga Pride was just a faggy kid.

03 is a giant pretentious edgefest that tries to be "deep" and gritty but only comes off as retarded. Brotherhood isn't much better, but if I had to choose I'd go with Brotherhood. Just pick whichever one you like at the end of the day. I don't see why 03 vs Brotherhood is still a fucking argument. It's all down to personal opinion.

>>161894100
90% of the time that is the reason given yes

>>161894116
damn what kind of jackass would consider sorrow to be a sin? like if your dog just died you're a bad person for being sad about it? the seven deadly sin thing in general is retarded as fuck

>>161893908
He was trying to fill the emptiness inside him, basically. He was created devoid of any worldly attachment, yet possessing great intelligence. He felt deprived and so he wanted to fill the emptiness in his being. He stole the lives of over a million people and still wasn't satisfied. He was trying to become whole, perfect, able to finally be content with his own existence. You could say he's an example of what happens to an intelligent being incapable of feeling love, but capable of understanding it. After all, he tried to make his own family, he even called himself "father" and referred to his homunculi as his "children" and yet there was nothing even resembling love in anything he did. A sad creature.

>>161893825
Only after the combined efforts of Van Hoenhiem , thousands of souls from Xerxes and the military and the remaining cast before he was able to take him on

>>161894116
>Manga Wrath wasn't angry at all and manga Pride was just a faggy kid
Wrath doesn't mean you have to be a screaming autist 24/7.Bradley's wrath was silent and subdued, it's part of the reason why he was so intimidating And Pride was a faggy kid who thought very highly of himself compared to humans and other homunculi. Did you even read the manga or are you just spouting bullshit?

>>161892866
The first time Father stopped using his power it was mentioned that no Alchemists could use alchemy, including Ed and Al.

>>161893842
Nah, it sounds like you just didn't pay any real attention to them. Envy was a miserable little shit. On his own his giggling little psychopath shtick wasn't very interesting I'll give you, but his interactions with other characters were often very good because it became apparent how pathetic he was. I really liked manga Envy. Similarly, Greed was great when he was interacting with humans, because his perspective on them was interesting compared to somebody like Envy who tried desperately to act superior even as his, well, envy for them became very apparent.

I just wanted to pop in and say that I've had this dream about being a sex slave for Izumi and Olivier since I read the manga. That's all, thank you.

>>161893845
>important characters like Mustang, Ed, Scar, etc were manhandled and had their arcs either dropped or completely changed
Both Eds saved their brothers and stopped using alchemy forever, both Mustangs kept working for Amestris and both Scars got revenge.

>>161894340
I think you're confused. Because I've read through the manga a few times and that literally never happens. They make a very specific point of pointing out when they are able to use alchemy again after Father stops blocking it, both times.

>>161894116
LMAO! You're reaching

Wrath was a kid who cried and threw tantrums.
Sloth has nothing to do with "being calm"

>>161893985
Manga Gluttony was cute while 2003 Gluttony became a brainless berserk caterpilar monster.

>>161893059
No I mean part way through the story, which is why they had to create something that would let the cast use alchemy.

>>161894100
It's almost as if people feel that the manga's story is better.

>>161894238
please don't remind me of the hoenhiem traveling around the world planting souls thingy to out keikaku father, so was so dumb I busted out laughing the first time around. all I could think of was that bleach "no, I am behind you" joke.

>>161894422
t b h kaiju mode was pretty sweet

>>161890584
Better than "dude nazis lmao these wounds will not heal" for sure

They both suck. If you're going to watch a show aimed at ten year olds there are better alternatives.

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>>161893621
King Motherfucking Bradley.

>>161894100
Except it's not better. The moment it deviates from the source material it becomes like some teenage edgelord from dA wrote it.

>>161894450
Yeah him stealing bodies because "much youth" and ending up dying in Envy's jaws after he became a dragon because.... reasons? Was so much better.

>2003's big evil villain is a selfish asshole who manipulates literally everyone in order to fulfill her desire for something as petty as immortality

>brotherhood's big evil villain is Shadow Dad and he wants to become a god and that's it

>>161893917
>most of the homunculi except Wrath, was just an extension of Father's will
And that stop him for being a villain? A villain is just someone evil he doesn't needs to be the boss.

And all homunculi had their will they just chose to follow Father. That's how Greed stopped with that shit because he could. Bradley even loved his wife and Pride became a normal kid.

>>161894579
I think that's why they think its "good". They saw it on Adult Swim back when they were teens and are remembering it being better than it actually was.

>>161894582
Not wanting to die is a pretty universal human desire, I really don't see how that's categorically inferior to wanting to know everything or the wanting to be loved thing some anon posted above.

>>161894534
Well that's just like

you're opinion man

>>161894579
so it's exclusively bad because it deviates from the manga and not because of the quality of its own story? thanks for confirming

>>161894367
In 2003 both Ed and Mustang end up being utterly crushed and having their ideals destroyed. They both end up broken without achieving what they set out to do. Ed in particular ends up back at square 1, having to sacrifice himself to save Alphonse, which is just the first fucking scene in the story all over again. Completely pointless. Manga actually has growth, has them making hard choices to stay true to their beliefs. Mustang in the 2003 anime never has a moment like manga Mustang in his fight against Envy, he's never pushed to the absolute limit and forced to make a very hard decision and prove himself worthy of the respect he receives from those around him.

As for Scar, the whole point of the manga is that he didn't give into revenge so I can only conclude you completely missed the point.

Who handled the Nina situation better 2003 or Brotherhood? I personally think 2003 because of how more emotional it was.

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>>161894751
>and not because of the quality of its own story?
I literally just said that it's bad because of the quality of its story, you inbred mongoloid.

>>161884226
>>better direction
depends on the scene
>>better ost
depends on the track
>>better art
Nope
>>better season 1
So I guess the other 26+ episodes are worse?
>>better openings
>>better endings
No

Why do people unironically think that FMAB is better than FMA 2004?
Because contrary to your headcanon 2004 continues after Hughes dies.

>>161894390
>Wrath was a kid who cried and threw tantrums
Because he felt wrath. Bradley was a calm strong guy, how that makes him "Wrath"?

>>161894667
It was a pretty shallow and silly motivation compared to the manga not to mention it ruins Hoenheim's character, before having him die avuseless death.

Amestris being created for the sole purpose of a philosopher Stone was far more disturbing a revelation than "lol imma steal your body and be young"

>>161894815
You might want to read the manga again, if you have even read it in the first place. Bradley was a fucking boiling pot of pure fury, he just didn't flail around like a total moron.

>>161894763
>In 2003 both Ed and Mustang end up being utterly crushed and having their ideals destroyed.
Really though that's what makes it good. Just like they explain in reality equivalent exchange doesn't actually exist and sometimes you lose. That scene where Ed and Mustang are in the car toward the end and Ed mentions how sometimes it's necessary to give up on what you want for the greater good was fuckin great.

>>161894822
>It was a pretty shallow and silly motivation compared to the manga
Compared to "I wanna know everything" or "I want people to like me"?

>>161894815
Is this a serious post or am I being fucked with right now?

Hey guys every time you see a kid throw a tantrum and pout in a Walmart because mommy won't buy him a toy...Wrath.

>>161894801
>depends on the scene
i dont think anything from fmab is memorable save bradley's assault

>>161894890
>Really though that's what makes it good
No not really. It feels like some edgy teenager's cop-out to writing a satisfying ending. Just going "and then they all failed and died because it's much more grim and dark this way". There's no catharsis, no logical progression to it really. It actively flies in the face of all the themes and character arcs that were set up earlier.
>Just like they explain in reality equivalent exchange doesn't actually exist and sometimes you lose
This to me was one of the worst parts of 2003. Like they didn't even understand what the story was trying to do.
>hat scene where Ed and Mustang are in the car toward the end and Ed mentions how sometimes it's necessary to give up on what you want for the greater good was fuckin great.
That was probably the moment I started to really dislike the 2003 series, because it had so utterly perverted the manga's themes.

>>161894822
>not to mention it ruins Hoenheim's character,
How does it ruin it? The 03 version he's a completely different character, just because it's different doesn't mean it's ruined. He was a real OG witch who did dark shit to achieve his own desires and regretted it, then tried to atone for it.

>>161894890
Kinda like how Ed destroyed his gate and Gave up his Alchemy to save his bro! He didn't even need to go to Germany or anything

>>161894928
Those motivations are better because of who possesses them. The dwarf in the flask is a fundamentally different existence, seeing how he interacts with the world and how he tries to be a human being is part of what makes him interesting. Those desires he has are not alien concepts, they're very human ones, but he was totally inhuman in his approach to them. That's the interesting part of his character. Dante is a human who just does grandiosely evil shit for frivolous reasons.

>>161895025
That's a weak as fuck sacrifice, really not a sacrifice at all. Not to mention the fact that it makes zero fucking sense that he just so happens to come up with that solution right at the end of the story when there's really no reason he could not have thought of it in the literal years they spent looking for answers.

>>161895005
> . He was a real OG witch who did dark shit to achieve his own desires and regretted it, then tried to atone for it.

Yeah not like in Brotherhood where we was inadvertently responsible for the deaths of thousands and tried to atone...oh wait

>>161894974
They didn't fail and die though, it just wasn't all sunshire and roses. Like they say, the whole world is imperfect. I don't make sense for a fairytale happy ending to exist outside of a fairytale.

>>161895064
Yeah ending up in Germany with proto Nazis makes way more sense

>>161894763
Ed brought back Alphonse's body, that's what he wanted and that's what he got. They even met again in the movie and lived together ever since.

Both Scars got revenge not for themselves but to make a better world since both Kimbley and Bradley were worthless murderers.

And it really nice to see Roy defeating Bradley.

>>161884226
When will you fags understand that 03's first half is the first of FMAB and that what happened after they deviated from the manga is just filler.

It's not 2 different shows, it 2 parts of the same story with filler in between and 10 episodes of recap.

>>161895100
The difference being he really had no idea what he was doing because he was basically a stooge being led by the nose by a malicious entity. In 03 he was the malicious entity who tried to turn it all around.

>>161895064
When I read posts like this it just confirms to me people who hate the manga barely even understand what it's doing in terms of themes and character arcs. I bet you never even noticed the change in Ed's pride over the course of the series, and why it was such a big deal for him to give up his alchemy. Ed from the start of the series never would have done that. He was too proud, too sure that alchemy could solve anything. That line of thinking is exactly what got him into the mess in the first place. He had no humility.

By the end of the story Ed is humble, he is able to give up such a core part of his identity: his ability to alchemy. He is an alchemist, arguably the best alchemist that ever lived, a genius, yet he was able to give that up forever, give up all that power forever, in order to have his brother back. Ed is alive, but he had to sacrifice the Fullmetal Alchemist.

>>161895133
Yeah all I'm seeing here is you really don't understand the story.

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A show's music can not be undervalued. Music can transform an entire scene and carry a show to new heights. Kaiji, HxH, Death Note, Bebop, Snk, to name a few, are shows that are clearly elevated by a good soundtrack. Fmab is not only lacking memorable songs but the ones it has actually weigh down otherwise entertaining scenes. Don't get me wrong, fmab has some good opening songs, but nothing in between is any good. It crippled the show, imo.

>>161894764
All the first episodes were better in the 2003 anime. Both Nina and Maes appeared for more episodes before dying so their deaths had more impact. They were handled even better in the 2003 anime than in the manga.

>>161895201
In the opening pages of the story he literally risks his own fucking LIFE to save his brother, to me that weighs a little more heavily than the ability to do alchemy. It's obvious to anyone who read it that he would have given up the ability in a heartbeat to save his brother at any point had he known it was possible.

>>161884226
The story ends in a more rational way.
Also because they just don't see the first anime, so they don't like it because they don't see it.

>>161895158
>>Ed brought back Alphonse's body, that's what he wanted and that's what he got
That's not what Alphonse wanted though. Or Winry. Or anyone else who cared about Ed. He just selfishly ignored them and defied fate to commit his original sin all over again. That's zero progression as a character, zero growth. He ended the exact same miserable, arrogant child as when he started out.

>>161895133
There was no fairy tale happy ending in Brotherhood/manga either. Ed an Al's journey isn't over. They're not static, they continue their research into alchemy to prevent shit like what's happened to them from occurring again. Its a hopeful ending in which characters go through actual growth and come to the end of their character arcs. All without having to go to Germany at any point

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>>161894801
>>>better ost
>depends on the track

>>161894939
Does wrath means a diferent thing now?
>Anger or wrath is an intense emotional response. It is an emotion that involves a strong uncomfortable and hostile response to a perceived provocation, hurt or threat. Some view anger as an emotion which triggers part of the fight or flight brain response.

>>161894801
>"this has better X"
>W-WELL IT DEPENDS

>>161895292
>In the opening pages of the story he literally risks his own fucking LIFE to save his brother,
And that was the moment of his greatest failure, his darkest sin as an alchemist. That was a shadow that hung over him the entire story and he was only able to begin forgiving himself for it about halfway through the manga.

If you look at that moment and say that's what Ed did right you really don't understand him. He hated himself for what he did to Alphonse, he felt responsible for it and that's what drove him to find a solution. Alphonse similarly held a ton of guilt as well, they were both motivated to heal one another because of it. Ed sacrificing himself doesn't help Alphonse's guilt, it only worsens it. It doesn't help anyone else either.

So basically the primary complaint is that 03 intentionally tries to subvert your expectations of the equivalent exchange concept and that's bad. And brotherhood rigidly sticks to it and that's good.

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>People who've only watched Brotherhood are very casual anime fans and have a very shallow interest.
>People who've only watched 2003 are also casual, but the kind that is stuck up their own ass and whines about all anime except their favorite being trash for little babies.
>Manga-only fans are grognards
>People who've watched both anime but prefer Brotherhood are typically older, or watched it older, and are either women or people who invest in positive emotion more than conflict, and seek happy endings
>People who watched both but prefer 2003 typically watched it at a much younger age than people who started with Brotherhood, prefer angst and moral dilemmas, and generally view happy endings as inherently bad. Also a predisposition towards very negative views of people who oppose their opinions
>People who read the manga and watched both anime typically rank the manga as best and 2003 as worth watching but also heavily flawed and overhyped, while Brotherhood is solid but dragged down by bad pacing early on and a slightly worse OST
Is this accurate?

>>161895560
He was guilty for attempting to revive their mother, not for his desperate attempt to save Al. They knew that trying to revive her was wrong and it cost them, that's the thing he's guilty about. Clearly it was right to give up his limbs to save his brother because he would be dead otherwise, and I pretty sure he didn't say at any point that he wished Al was dead.

>>161895590
No, the complaint is that 2003 sabotages the same morals it tries to present, and is so caught up in subverting things it forgets to have a coherent plot and literally any resolution.

>>161895327
Wtf everybody wanted Alphonse body back and how is that selfish he sacrified himself. He also developed later in Nazi Germany since he had to learn to live without alchemy, family and friends.

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>>161894815
You should probably look up the real definition of Wrath. Because manga Wrath is so fitting to the role you couldn't possibly have written him better. If you think he's calm you're not paying attention. He is bloodthirsty and barely restrained destruction in the shape of a man.

>>161895680
>No, the complaint is that 2003 sabotages the same morals it tries to present,
Probably because they're fucking stupid and don't hold water in reality, you know that whole subverting your expectations thing.

>>161894295
>Bradley's wrath was silent and subdued

In other words it never occurred.

>And Pride was a faggy kid who thought very highly of himself compared to humans and other homunculi

No he didn't. That description fits Envy far more than Pride. Weirdly Pride was envious of others for having a mother. Maybe they should swap names.

>>161895682
Everyone also wanted Edward whole again, and alive, and with them. Seriously are you a child? Do you not realize that your life is connected to other people's? That if you die you will cause pain and suffering? Ed apparently didn't, and you don't either. Sacrificing yourself for other's happiness is a conclusion only moronic children and emotionally stunted people can reach.

>>161895640
It's a good recap of the situation.

>>161894815
There's some meta-level shitposting here that the guy defending the version with a teenager's flawed imagining of moral complexity mistakenly believes that a teenager's petty outbursts are wrath, while actual wrath is something else.

>>161894375
The only one confused is you. At no point did Father ever block alchemy, especially since he was the reason that alchemy worked in this country and nowhere else.

>>161895768
Yeah fuck all those guys who signed up to defend their people in wars, they were just moronic children and emotionally stunted

>>161895814
They don't sign up to die you fucking imbecile. Jesus Christ are you literally 14?

>>161895267
It was almost as if FMAB's ost was scared of stealing the protagonism from the characters and plot while FMA 2003's ost enhaced them.

>>161895849
Up for debate but I can guarantee that's about how old he was when he watched the first anime.

>>161895797
>At no point did Father ever block alchemy
Did you even read the story? Cause he did exactly that. Twice.

>>161895857
2003's OST is almost like an apology for how bad everything but the music was

>>161895849
The ones who died did. They signed up knowing it was possible and probably likely they would die but they did it anyway, because they knew it had to be done. Sacrificing yourself for the greater good is not stupid or childish, it is the greatest aspect of humanity there is. That's why war heroes are revered around the world across borders and nationalities.

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>>161895733
You must be the least discerning reader I've ever seen. Bradley was the incarnation of Wrath, he embodied anger and retribution. He was the smiting arm of Father. Look at what Bradley is most renowned for: the Ishval Rebellion. A case where civil unrest turned into genocide, solely on his command. When the Ishvallans came to him begging for peace he denied them and continued the genocide.

That is true wrath. Wanton destruction and disproportionate retribution meted out in violence.

>>161895733
Pride was too proud to admit he liked being a child and having someone who loved him. Envy was literally jealous, you know like his name

>>161895919
>The ones who died did.
No they didn't. Nobody joins the army to die. You seem to have some fundamentally fucked up understanding of how the world works that I usually only see in teenagers who lack perspective.

>>161884226
Why is this a daily thread?

>>161896049
They joined knowing there was a tremendous risk of death, and some did die. Their sacrifices were not stupid or childish. Nice job completely ignoring the majority of my post though.

>>161895705
>Bradley
>vengeful or indignated
>Bradley
>punishing crimes
He was just a dog that was really good at killing who felt nothing for anyone. He didn't kill humans because they enraged him or as punishment, he just did becasue that was his work.

>>161895201
>When I read posts like this it just confirms to me people who hate the manga barely even understand what it's doing in terms of themes and character arcs.

Two things you never explain.

>I bet you never even noticed the change in Ed's pride over the course of the series

Name some chapters where this occurred.

>why it was such a big deal for him to give up his alchemy.

It wasn't a big deal since he couldn't use alchemy without Father's power.

>Ed from the start of the series never would have done that. He was too proud, too sure that alchemy could solve anything.

And he solved all his problems with alchemy throughout the entire series.

>He had no humility.

Care to name some events that taught him humility.

>He is an alchemist, arguably the best alchemist that ever lived, a genius

All of which he got by going through a magic door.

>yet he was able to give that up forever, give up all that power forever, in order to have his brother back.

Which means little since he could only use alchemy because Father was projecting the Philosopher's Stone's power throughout the country.

>Ed is alive, but he had to sacrifice the Fullmetal Alchemist.

A title he didn't like and a power he could no longer use.

>>161896077
We can't have a sakura thread (you know, the 'I post this every day until you like it'), so we have 'FMA VS FMAB which one is better?'

>>161896121
They do not sign up to die you stupid child. They sign up to defend their country. They can't defend their country if they're dead. They can't do anything if they're dead. How you fail to realize this is baffling, you must be an actual child to not understand the concept of death and what it takes from everyone around you.

>>161896160
>annihilates an entire country because of a riot
Yeah seems like a reasonable fellow alright, not like he's ripped straight out of the Old Testament or anything.

>>161896220
And in the process of defending their people, they know they have a tremendous risk TO DIE. But they do it ANYWAY. And there have been plenty of people who have signed up for suicide missions, knowing they would die, and guess what, they were not childish or stupid either.

Your posts are worthless, you just spew "you're a teenager!!!" over and over and never confront the argument. You sound like some tard out of a fateshit thread arguing about "muh seigi no mikata",

>>161895705
So by that logic Greed would still be Greed even if he never tried to gain any wealth.

>>161895768
>Everyone also wanted Edward whole again
Manga Ed didn't end whole

>>161896173
>Name some chapters where this occurred
All of the manga, it was progressive
>It wasn't a big deal since he couldn't use alchemy without Father's power.
M8 they fixed the alchemy so that Amestris could utilise the full power of the tectonics instead of Father being a barrier between it
>Which means little since he could only use alchemy because Father was projecting the Philosopher's Stone's power throughout the country.

Nah mate

>>161896294
Yes? Because greed is more than just avarice. And Greed isn't even subtle about this. He outright tells you multiple times he wants EVERYTHING. Women, money, power, everything. We never even see him going after money in the story. Not once. Yet he doesn't seem any less greedy for it.

Part of it is I think you just don't know what wrath means, especially in the biblical sense that Wrath is characterized.

>>161895870
Unlike you I did. Father never blocked alchemy. People were only ever able to use alchemy because he was using his philosopher stone powers throughout the country. Once he stopped channelling his powers alchemy stopped working.

>>161896301
But he's alive at least. Which gives Alphonse something to strive toward. His brother is alive, and he still has his ability to do alchemy/alkahestry, so he can look for a way to heal him. Can't do that if his brother is dead.

>>161896371
>Once he stopped channelling his powers alchemy stopped working.
I.e. he blocked them. You're just arguing semantics now.

>>161895640
That seems pretty accurate. I watched 2003 series when I was an angsty teenager and still feel that it's better. I might change my mind if I rewatched it though.

>>161895292
He had to and it was a spur of the moment decision after his fuck up. From relying on alchemy

>>161896249
>because of a riot
It was just part of the plan, it was actually because of the giant transmutation circle. It was his job. And it wasn't a country, Ishbal belonged to Amestris.

>>161895493
Seriously just stop. You're embarrassing yourself at this point

>>161896507
Yeah and he was glad that he did it, the soul binding, what he wasn't glad about was attempting the whole revival mess in the first place. Which was my point.

>>161896013
>Bradley was the incarnation of Wrath, he embodied anger and retribution.

By never getting angry or seeking retribution.

>Look at what Bradley is most renowned for: the Ishval Rebellion.

Something he didn't cause and was only involved with because Father told him to.

>A case where civil unrest turned into genocide, solely on his command.

Due to Envy's actions.

>When the Ishvallans came to him begging for peace he denied them and continued the genocide.

Because Father needed a certain number of deaths in this region. Something he would have done if he'd represented any other emotion.

>Wanton destruction and disproportionate retribution meted out in violence.

Because Father needed a certain number of deaths, not because Bradley enjoyed destruction or violence.

Bradley doesn't represent Wrath unless he acts this way without orders from Father.

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>>161884226
03 didnt have best scene

>>161896393
2003 Ed is still alive, he is doing fine in Germany with Al.

>>161896602
>If you kill your enemies, they win

joggles the noggles.

>>161896173
>Name some chapters where this occurred.
The very first one? And most of the early chapters in fact. Ed is a cocky asshole who acts like a god. How do you not remember that edgy speech he gives to Rose about God and how alchemy is superior to him? Can you imagine THAT Ed willingly giving up his godlike powers? I can't.

>It wasn't a big deal since he couldn't use alchemy without Father's power.
Alchemy doesn't require Father's power. Only the specific alchemy he taught to Amestris did. Xingese had no problems using it. Alphonse had no trouble learning it. Ed gave it up forever. He can never use any alchemy ever again.

>And he solved all his problems with alchemy throughout the entire series.
Yes, which shows what a big loss it is to him. I mean fuck the final chapter has him re-roofing his house and doing the hand clap thing out of habit. He misses his powers.

>Care to name some events that taught him humility.
Nina is the biggest one. He actually brings it up when he's fighting Father and Pride.

>All of which he got by going through a magic door.
He was a born genius. He was doing successful transmutations when he was 5 years old, he was able to pass the written exam for State Alchemists at 12, something men twice his age failed at in huge numbers.

>Which means little since he could only use alchemy because Father was projecting the Philosopher's Stone's power throughout the country.
Again, not true. Xing had been using alchemy for as long as Amestris and had nothing to do with Father.

>A title he didn't like and a power he could no longer use.
It's not about the title you nimrod, it's about his identity as an alchemist. Which was now over, forever. His brother got to travel the world learning new alchemies and he would never be able to do it.

>>161896044
>Pride was too proud to admit he liked being a child and having someone who loved him.

He literally admitted that to Al.

>Envy was literally jealous, you know like his name

Jealous of who?

>>161896600
>By never getting angry or seeking retribution.
Are you blind? Do you not see the manga page I posted. Are you autistic and are unable to read emotions?

>Something he didn't cause
It literally only happened because he commanded it. If he had said "just keep the peace and let them blow off steam" there would have been no genocide. Instead he ordered the military there in force and systematically killed off the Ishvallans. Father never once ordered him to do this. Father only wanted some kind of large sacrifice in that location, it was totally up to Bradley how to carry it out. Bradley used a flimsy excuse to utterly destroy an entire people in the name of retribution. That is wrath. That is text book, old school, biblical wrath.

>>161889350
>Frieza was the guy who orphaned the main character and destroyed all but three of his race. Vegeta and co were that race and served as a dark mirror of what Goku could have become.

Freeza's role as destroyer of the Saiyan race wasn't really played up that well. In the end, Goku was fighting for those he loves, not so much an alien species that is alien even to him. It's much more cathartic for Vegeta, but when Vegeta was first conceived, this whole Freeza angle wasn't even a dream, much less planned. It was a revision of Vegeta's character to keep him onboard due to his popularity. There might've been some true emotional payoff if Freeza was an enemy from the get and his role had been built correctly. Something better for your argument would've been Goku finally defeating Piccolo and Piccolo Jr.

>Even Cell's entire reason for existence was to kill Goku for a presumed ill done to Gero
Cell was created by a man that wanted to kill Goku, but the only thing Cell cared for was reaching perfection and testing his strength. DB villains tend to have simple motivations, even if they're executed well for entertainment. I like Cell a lot, but he's easily one of the simplest.

>eventually causing Goku to arrive at the conclusion that the Earth would be safer without him.
This is a plus. Goku saw what his influence could do and decided to stay out. This is good. Then the Buu arc completely compromises him doing things with "the greater good" in mind.

Don't use DB as an example for good writing in shonen, especially where 'Z' is concerned, because tighter written shonen have come out since.

>>161896193
I've been away, are Sakurafish threads banned now?

>>161896751
This!!

Dragon Ball is pretty basic in comparison

>>161896559
Not really I know about anger, I study this at college. One of the main caracteriristcs of anger is how you lose control of yourself and can't think properly. Bradley knew how to control himself and could always think properly.

>>161896344
>M8 they fixed the alchemy so that Amestris could utilise the full power of the tectonics instead of Father being a barrier between it

By putting 5 pieces of paper in 5 places in Central. Just removing one of them would remove all alchemy.

>>161896734
The page just said that if someone is going to punish Bradley it would a human since gods doesn't exist. It says nothing about his feels.

What you can argue is that Bradley is a person who causes wrath (to Scar for example) just like how Lust didn't felt lust herself but caused it to others (to Havoc for example).

>>161896631
Mercy is the only way to peace.

>>161896934
No you dumb fuck it was a successful transmutation circle. The paper isn't needed anymore

>>161896347
>Because greed is more than just avarice. And Greed isn't even subtle about this. He outright tells you multiple times he wants EVERYTHING.

So he represents his sin all the time.

>Part of it is I think you just don't know what wrath means

That part of you is a fanboy trying to theory craft your way out of poor characterisation.

>especially in the biblical sense that Wrath is characterized.

Which Bradley never shows.

literally why do you fucking morons always devolve into this seven deadly sins bullshit

L I T E R A L L Y

W H O

C A R E S

a character's name does not dictate their character, it's such a dumb fucking argument

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy

Look the name Roy apparently means King, are we going to have a big autistic argument about how Mustang isn't actually a king but a colonel? FUCK how could they have missed that! Plot hole!!!

>>161896999
You're right, because eventually the merciful side mercys their way all the way into a camp.

>>161894763
The movie was garbage because it threw out everything about the series.
Family/"home" was always a big theme. Ed and Al were forever separated from all those people that grew to care about them (and those that always did, like Winry) at the end.
Mustang's backwards development was pointless, too. Nazi Hughes was just tacky. The whole movie felt like some other project that got merged with FMA.
I still prefer 2003 and ignore that the movie exists

>>161896407
>I.e. he blocked them. You're just arguing semantics now

No you're wrong because you don't understand how alchemy works in FMA. If Father could block alchemy then it would exist in other countries. It doesn't exist outside of Amestris because Father was the source of alchemy. So if Father dies so does alchemy.

>>161897025
Have you never felt that type of anger where you want to act out but have to suppress it due to circumstances, that's Bradley in a nut-shell

>>161890210
Maybe cause the whole series's Ed had considered Alchemy as a philosophy of life. He realized his dedication to it had led him astray and giving it up showed that he had grown into a person who didn't need to rely on it anymore. It was the exact opposite of a nothing sacrifice.

>>161897330
>He realized his dedication to it had led him astray and giving it up showed that he had grown into a person who didn't need to rely on it anymore.
when did any of this happen, christ they even continue to research alchemy afterward in the epilogue.

>>161896641
>The very first one? And most of the early chapters in fact. Ed is a cocky asshole who acts like a god.

By condemning belief in gods.

>How do you not remember that edgy speech he gives to Rose about God and how alchemy is superior to him?

Well alchemy did actually work.

>Can you imagine THAT Ed willingly giving up his godlike powers? I can't.

He gave them up because they stopped working after Father died.

>Alchemy doesn't require Father's power. Only the specific alchemy he taught to Amestris did.

So the only one that Ed, Al, and everyone in Amestris know.

>Xingese had no problems using it.

Hoe exactly was this style different from Amestris alchemy?

>Alphonse had no trouble learning it. Ed gave it up forever. He can never use any alchemy ever again.

Did Ed actually try to learn this?

>Nina is the biggest one. He actually brings it up when he's fighting Father and Pride.

Ed also said that he believed he could fix this using alchemy.

>He was a born genius. He was doing successful transmutations when he was 5 years old

His father was part philosopher's stone.

>he was able to pass the written exam for State Alchemists at 12, something men twice his age failed at in huge numbers.

After going through a magic door that gave him super alchemy powers.

>Again, not true. Xing had been using alchemy for as long as Amestris and had nothing to do with Father.

And was it ever established that Ed couldn't do this form of alchemy. After all the series made it clear they were different things and they even had different names.

>It's not about the title you nimrod, it's about his identity as an alchemist.

An identity he didn't like.

>His brother got to travel the world learning new alchemies and he would never be able to do it.

Did he ever try to do them?

>>161897106
Jesuchrist read the manga again. Alchemy is possible in other countries like in Xing where Mei comes from. They just use a different source of energy using the one from the Earth's core instead of the one from the tectonic layers.

Actually those tubes father had in his chair were undergorund in all the country and limited alchemy a bit. So other countries probably had better alchemy, even if they lacked alchemists because Father and Hoenheim only taught it to Amestris and Xing.

Father was created by alchemy as well, it was a thing in Xerxes before he was created.

>>161897024
Where in the manga do they say that?

>>161897263
An anger that is not an anger? Yeah that's Bradley in a nutshell.

>>161897263
Which is stupid since he's not representing wrath, he's representing self-control.

>>161897447
The papers were just to null the giant philosopher's stone circle and bring back the souls back to the bodies.

>>161897462
So are you saying you would want Bradley to be a raging man who yells every sentence instead of having a subtle rage, like when he was shaking in rage because of Huge's Daughter

>>161897411
Jesuchrist read the manga again.

Given your numerous errors you should read the manga again before people start posting the manga to show you are wrong.

>Alchemy is possible in other countries like in Xing where Mei comes from. They just use a different source of energy using the one from the Earth's core instead of the one from the tectonic layers.

So it's something completely different, which is why they give it a different name. This doesn't change the fact that the Amestris version does not work outside of Amestris.

>Actually those tubes father had in his chair were undergorund in all the country and limited alchemy a bit.

That's the opposite of what they did.Those tubes transmitted Father's power, which is why alchemy stopped working when he got off his chair to talk to Ed and Al.

>So other countries probably had better alchemy

That's just your theory crafting. Nothing in the manga indicates this.

>even if they lacked alchemists because Father and Hoenheim only taught it to Amestris and Xing.

Which would only make sense if no one from Amestris or Xing ever went to another country.

>Father was created by alchemy as well, it was a thing in Xerxes before he was created.

Which doesn't change how the Amestris alchemy worked.

>>161897540
>when he was shaking in rage because of Huge's Daughter
Literally the only moment he showed any rage.

>a raging man who yells every sentence
Yeah some kind of berserk would represent Wrath better.

>>161897528
No that's what Hoenheim's actions were for. The papers were part of Scar's brother's plans to let people use alchemy. How the brother figured this out is very convenient for the plot.

>>161897652
>So it's something completely different
Mmm, no. It's like a sun powered car. It is still a car even if doesn't work with gas.

>the Amestris version does not work outside of Amestris
Literally out of your ass.

>Which doesn't change how the Amestris alchemy worked.
Are you implying Amestris' alchemy is different from Xerxes'? Because it isn't.

>>161897652
>That's the opposite of what they did
Uh, no, it's established that alchemy isn't as strong as the math should make it, which has always puzzled alchemists. Father's got the ability to use the souls he put underground as a cushion and seal off alchemy entirely, but that doesn't affect alkahestry because they use different sources. Alchemy didn't stop because he stood up, because they use alchemy left and right on the battle in the end. It stopped because he made it stop. Father isn't the source of alchemy.

>>161897652
Amestrian alchemists have been blocked off from the energy of the earth utilized by alkahestrists by a layer of Philosopher's Stone energy (Father's tubes) between the crust and the surface. The reverse circle uses the power of the original circle to both neutralize the Philosopher's Stone energy concentrated underground and draw out the limitless power flowing deep within the earth for alchemical use.

>>161897393
I don't know. Maybe there part where he said this door(alchemy) had led him astray?

>>161898512
well apparently he wasn't too serious about it because they went right back to researching it after the big shounen battle.

>>161898563
Studying something and having faith in something are two different things. Ed will always love alchemy but he no longer thought everything in the world worked by its rules.

>>161898661
I think you're just making shit up at this point

>>161897407
The only thing he got from seeing the gate was the ability to transmute without circles.

An since when did he hate being an alchemist? He disliked being a STATE alchemist. Being a dog of military. And even then, he still enjoyed a lot of the privileges it brought.

>>161896013
03 fags need things to be spelled out for them , subtlety is too much for them to grasp. Why do you think they love the Nazi Germany ending so much?

The Amestrian military and Ishval just wasn't on the nose enough, there needed to be actual Nazis

>>161896013
The genocide wasn't a consecuence of anger. He just needed a sacrifice for the circle. Stop pretending to be retarded.

>>161897853
>Mmm, no. It's like a sun powered car. It is still a car even if doesn't work with gas.

That's the opposite of what was shown in the manga.

>Literally out of your ass.

The manga states that it's not used in any other country because it won't work. That's why the Xingese use a different form.

>Are you implying Amestris' alchemy is different from Xerxes'? Because it isn't.

You just made that up. Amestris' alchemy cannot work without the philosopher's stone.

>>161898110
>Uh, no, it's established that alchemy isn't as strong as the math should make it, which has always puzzled alchemists.

No they said that it shouldn't work.

>Father's got the ability to use the souls he put underground as a cushion and seal off alchemy entirely, but that doesn't affect alkahestry because they use different sources.

He isn't sealing anything.

>Alchemy didn't stop because he stood up, because they use alchemy left and right on the battle in the end.

1) I'm referring to the first time Ed and Al met Father, where alchemy did stop working after he left his chair.

2) You're thinking about the battle with father, where putting 5 pieces of paper in the right place let the main character use alchemy.

>Father isn't the source of alchemy.

The manga says he is; which is why they had to create that circle using Scar's brother's research.

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>>161900239
How the fuck do you make philosopher's stone then? It is made with alchemy but according to you it is needed for alchemy as well.

>>161898321
>Amestrian alchemists have been blocked off from the energy of the earth utilized by alkahestrists by a layer of Philosopher's Stone energy (Father's tubes) between the crust and the surface.

And why would they deliberately make it harder to use alchemy when Father's entire plan and the most powerful soldiers in the country all require alchemy? Wouldn't making alkahestrism harder to use prevent Father from achieving his goals?

Try thinking through whether you comments make sense.

>The reverse circle uses the power of the original circle to both neutralize the Philosopher's Stone energy concentrated underground and draw out the limitless power flowing deep within the earth for alchemical use.

By your logic that would mean Father weakened his own alchemists for no reason. Try thinking more about why they would be stupid.

>>161898870
>The only thing he got from seeing the gate was the ability to transmute without circles.

Which is a massive advantage because he can use any type of alchemy without having to learn about it. Unlike nearly every other alchemist.

>An since when did he hate being an alchemist? He disliked being a STATE alchemist. Being a dog of military. And even then, he still enjoyed a lot of the privileges it brought.

You referred to him giving up the Full Metal Alchemist, which was his state alchemist name.

>>161900481
Those are lines from the wiki you aspie. Father did it so he could null it in case someone opposed him. But he didn't expect Scar's brother would discover a way to get throught his tubes.

and

stop

with

the

fucking

reddit

spacing

already

>>161900477
>How the fuck do you make philosopher's stone then?
Either using alkahestrism or some variant of it.

>>161900596
>Those are lines from the wiki you aspie.

Citation needed.

>Father did it so he could null it in case someone opposed him.

So he made his own army weaker in case someone opposed him, even though this would make it harder for him to find people who had been through the magic door.

Also since he made a lot of the philosopher's stone this would negate his advantage since anyone with a philosopher's stone could oppose him.

>>161900549
>he can use any type of alchemy without having to learn about it
That's not how it works, he doesn't need the circle but he still needs to know how to draw it.

>>161900742
>Citation needed.
Chapter 105

>this would make it harder for him to find people who had been through the magic door
Not at all.

>anyone with a philosopher's stone could oppose him
Without alchemy philosopher's stone doesn't work.

>>161900618
A variant known as alchemy. Alkaestrism was derived from alchemy not the other way.

Do you know english? I'm starting to think you don't know english because nothing you are saying has any sense.

>>161898729
>I can't read between lines.
The scene wasn't that hard to understand.

>>161895902
Everything in 2003 was better. The direction, the music, everything. It's just that quality in music is so obvious that even a pleb can recognize the difference. btw the same is true for the direction. It was better before the material diverged from the manga, as even Brotherhoodfags are want to admit. And that didn't suddenly change when it diverged.

>>161901672
nostalgia is one hell of a drug, too bad 2003 is still shit.

>>161884226
Why people hate the nazi end so much? I don't think it's great but at least it's consistent with the whole sacrifice something of equal value motif. Ed punching the father really hard didn't feel like an appropriate conclusion either despite some strong bits before the mango end.

>>161901715
>nostalgia is one hell of a drug

But not strong enough to blind even Brotherhoodfags to obvious shit like 2003's better music and direction. It's only at the halfway point that they enter cognitive dissonance for the later.

>>161896751
All of this is more than what Brotherhood had.

>>161901023
>That's not how it works, he doesn't need the circle but he still needs to know how to draw it.

Knowledge which he gained by going through the magic door, which is why Al can also do this.

>Chapter 105

Doesn't mention this.

>Not at all.

Father specifically mentions having this problem.

>Without alchemy philosopher's stone doesn't work.

Homeheim is able to use alchemy due to the philosopher's stone's power.

>A variant known as alchemy. Alkaestrism was derived from alchemy not the other way.

Citation needed.

>Do you know english? I'm starting to think you don't know english because nothing you are saying has any sense.

That's because you're making a lot of stupid claims without any evidence to back them up. By contrast I am debunking these claims using logic.

>>161901899
>doesn't give a single source for his retarded headcanon
>ask others for source
I'm not playing you game more kido. The FMA wiki supports what I say but your are free to believe whatever you want.

>>161901897
You're out of your fucking mind. This is your final (you)

>>161902145
>The FMA wiki supports what I say

Yet you failed to provide a single link to support any of your claims.

>>161902262
>comparing father to frieza

You're out of your fucking mind. But enjoy your dark lord who literally sits on a throne for the whole series and his gaggle of 1-dimensional henchmen with no relation to the hero. Dragon Ball isn't Shakespeare but it's better than that. And so is any work of fiction that develops its villain beyond the lowest tier of fantasy evil overlord.

>>161902527
Scar explain it all in chapter 106. Where is YOUR source you stupid retarded silly dumb mentally handicapped piece of shit son a bitch bastard motherfucker?

>>161894116

In the 03 anime, the homunculi weren't even born as the embodiment of the seven sins to begin with. Those were just names Dante gave them and some happen to fit better than others.

>>161902527
This is the most nonsensical argument I've seen in a while. How the fuck do you misread something this bad?

>>161892922
They aren't humans and they act like completely different people. Sounds like a failed human transmutation to me.