>/a/nons will pretend that they let this get passed of as

>>157337888
Moeblob to sexy, don't see the problem here.

It's 愛よ, I ain't gotta explain shit

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>>157337951
Homura is still moe

>>157337888

Homu simply ascended to a higher level of moe, one you simply can not understand. There is nothing wrong here.

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>>157338111
How do I understand this next level?

>>157338310
You need ai

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Rebellion was a mistake and you all know it.

>>157337888
It's better than cutting you hair and call it character development

>>157338414
You're clearly not /homu/ here.

>>157338817
You KNOW it.

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>>157337888

>>157338414
Rebellion was just a half-assed effort of milking something that should have ended with the anime.

>>157337888
Suffering

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>>157337888
>from doormat to devil

>>157338414

The series was a dismal deus ex machina and rebellion saved the series.

>>157339971
It was not a deus ex machina. How Madoka was able to become a god and why she did it was explained in the story and connected directly to the plot and character development.

>>157337888
She was perfect in the TV anime. Rebellion ruined her.

>>157340059
>able to become a god

My argument. Thank you.

>>157340174
That isn't the extent of what deus ex machina means. You either don't know what the term means or are deliberately misusing it.

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>>157337888
>anon before /a/
>anon after /a/

>>157340287

Here's what I know: The arc of the series is based on Homura's conflict. Madoka interrupts this arc and invalidates it before it can reach it's conclusion. In doing so the entire narrative up to that point is voided to switch the story into a deus ex machina in which Madoka simply wishes herself into godhood and abruptly ends the arc before it's absolute resolution. Trust me, I've written 80 thousand words over this deus ex machina.

>>157337888
Did KyoAnus animate that scene?

>>157340751
>The arc of the series is based on Homura's conflict
Except Homura's conflict is completely out of focus until episode 10. There are hints and foreshadowing from the beginning, however, the main focus is on Madoka and Sayaka. Madoka's arc is drawn out over the course of the entire series, while Sayaka's is more prominent until it concludes with her death. Homura remains on the sidelines, even antagonistic at times, but her arc is only the most important in the overarching plot, not the narrative of the series. While you are correct on Homura's struggle being invalidated by Madoka's wish and she's denied her reason to exist, that's exactly where Rebellion comes into play, and Homura achieves victory in extremely Pyrrhic form.

>>157340751
You don't know what deus ex machina means so I can only assume all of those words were bullshit
It has nothing to do with the overall quality of the narrative and everything to do with whether the event was foreshadowed

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>>157341707

>>157343195
>unexpected
Kyubey brings up the notion of Madoka becoming god in episode 2.
>contrived
It's specifically explained how Madoka is so powerful.

>>157343259
Never mind it being brought up, one of the bad futures is literally her destroying the planet.

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time to post in the homu thread

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>>157343511

>>157343259

The expectation in the scene is that Homura completes the fight to the death with Walpurgisnacht. She doesn't.

>>157343439
That's how contrived Madoka is: that in defiance of the universe's rules of the balance of blessings and curses should even out to zero for absolutely no explicable reason Madoka is uber+1.

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>>157343543

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>>157343588
>That's how contrived Madoka is: that in defiance of the universe's rules of the balance of blessings and curses

you've completely misunderstood the basic framework of the show's rules so I don't know why you're trying to critique it. The whole basis of the incubator's system rests on there being a deficiency of magic to go around - and a consequent surplus of curses. That asymmetry is what makes it such a valuable reaction for the incubators.

>>157343588
>expectation in the scene is that Homura completes the fight to the death with Walpurgisnacht.
Why would anyone expect that when Homura did absolutely nothing that cycle that would make her more likely to win than the previous hundreds of times she tried?

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>>157343663
post rare homus itt

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>>157343703

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>>157343777

>>157343675

Because that's the fulfillment of the character's arc. Homura concludes that to grant her wish she must defeat Walpurgisnacht. It is therefore expected that Homura and Walpurgisnacht will enter into a no quarter battle from which either one the other or neither will emerge victorious. Before this arc can be completed Madoka interrupts the narrative and literally wishes it all away.

>>157343663
The deficiency is constantly made up for by the creation of new magical girls they all meet the same demise, and their wishes and curses cancel out leaving them with nothing. Madoka breaks this internal rule of the universe for no discernible reason other than being Madoka uber+1.

If my waifu ended up becoming a god and a state of non-existence, I'd put a stop to that shit too. I don't care who the fuck is benefited by her not existing, I certainly wouldn't be. And since my waifu isn't real, well, guess I've got something I need to do now.

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>>157343888

Homu a qt.

>>157343930
I'd be okay spending the rest of eternity in valhalla with my waifu.

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>>157343927
>The deficiency is constantly made up for by the creation of new magical girls they all meet the same demise

No, it isn't. QB explicitly says that the largest release of energy comes from the transformation of a gem into a grief seed, and that the rate at which magic is restored through the use of grief seeds is less than the magic that is expended to kill a witch. This is literally the whole reason witchification is inevitable in the first place, and why there were always be more curses in the world than magical girls to deal with them.

Madoka never breaks an "internal rule of the universe" - her wish was actualized because Homura's time-travelling had accreted an enormous amount of magical potential around Madoka because magical potential is directly determined by depth of emotion (and Homura's time-traveling made Madoka's contract-making wish imbued with the emotion of every loop she underwent, thereby literally transcending time and space.)

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>>157343964

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>>157344121

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>>157344186

>>157344088
>world than magical girls to deal with them.

Which is exactly why the whole world is doomed without anyone knowing it. If the constant supply of magical girls stops, say if the incubators move on then the witches will destroy the world and human kind 'goes back into caves.' again the wishes and curses cancel and the universe should reset to its baseline.

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>>157343543

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>>157344261
>If the constant supply of magical girls stops,

It won't stop, you're conflating entropy with the magical girl/curse ratio. QB can create as many magical girls as he can manage - the point is that they need curses to fuel their magic, there are not enough curses to do that because the transfer rate from grief seed - soulgem is ineffecient, and so the deficit of magical girls compared to extant witches will never be fixed. This is the fundamental conceit of the show and the engine of the plot and the reason why Walpurgisnacht is impossible to beat (given only a single temporal dimension, anyway). Please rewatch it!

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>>157344366

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>>157344437

According to Wraith Arc Madoka was an incompetent bitch and Homura is a 110% improvement in all conceivable ways.

There also are multiple Homuras now according to it and the Concept Movie.

Good franchise.

>>157344481
Fuck off, shitbrain.

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>>157344524
no thanks.

>>157344557
Then post Madoka related things. Not off topic tumblr nonsense.

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>>157344557

>>157344261

Thus with Madoka's amplification you'd expect her powers to annihilate the world, as it does in the final episode but madoka has the +1 boost that she shouldn't have according to the universe's own internal logic

>>157344366

I haven't mentioned entropy. Defeating Entropy is just the motivation of QB to make the contracts. I'm dealing strictly with the bindings of the contract. Magical girls have positive emotional energy and negative emotional energy and the incubators take as much of it as they can in order to combat entropy and they get the biggest energy boost in the conversion from positive (Magical girl) to negative (Witch), so the incubators are always taking up energy, no doubt, my argument is not about that, I am addressing only the stipulations of the contract, and Sayaka's realization that the wish creates an equal curse.

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>>157344592
go fuck yourself my dude.

>>157337888
Moemura is a non-character.

Homura's character is great if you leave out moeblob homu that comes out of nowhere and had little to no characterization

Her transition from obsessed Time traveler to devil yuri god is actually good though.

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>>157344481

How in the hell is she supposed to gain Mami points?

>>157344654
Maybe if I was doing something wrong, but I'm not.

>>157343983
Yeah me too but the hellish limbo madoka is in ain't valhalla.

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Just a reminder that Madoka never loved Homura.
Especially the stupid evil at end of Rebellion.

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>>157344630
>Sayaka's realization that the wish creates an equal curse.

It's not equal though, the curse produced by witchification is greater than the magical energy created at the moment when a magical girl is created. This is why magical girls are always outgunned by Walpurgisnacht: as an amalgamation of all extant curses, there will never be an equal amount of magic (from a single universe) to combat it, since it is a product of a reaction that produces more energy than its reactants.

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>>157344719
the good boy is doing nothing wrong and I don't give a shit. kill yourself.

>>157344654
>>157344699
>>157344481
And of course you just can't fucking stop yourself, because you're a subhuman shithead.
You have to ruin every single fucking thread.

This is your life. You have literally nothing in other than trying to harass people on 4chan.

>>157344827
>i can shitpost because im special
No.

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>>157344785
So I think I might have actually been conflating number of witches with quantity of curses: the point is that there's an asymmetry of curse-energy and magical-girl energy because the production of the former is definitionally greater.

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>>157344872
no, I'm "shitposting" because I don't give a fuck about your tastes in posting. Go hang yourself.

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>>157344965

>>157344785

I don't think it's a question of which is more, its more like magical girl energy is constantly being burned up so it can't cover everything. It is impossible for 100% of a magical girls energy to combat curses even tho the balance is still 1:1 wishes and curses because of the maintenance needs of magical girls you can't stop a significant amount of curses from leaking out. So the rules of the universe are that more magical girls allow the human race to keep up with the witches, but each individual magical girl is always falling behind the curve.

>>157343927
It's completely implausible for Homura to outright defeat Walpurgisnacht. A mutual kill might be plausible, but that would leave Madoka's arc unresolved, unless she wished to revive Homura, which would subsequently mandate a reset ending. There is no truly universally satisfying ending in this case; Madoka must (inadvertently and unintentionally) trample over Homura in order to actualize herself. Rebellion is the antithesis of this, except this time, the action is completely deliberate.

Madoka may have obliterated her own despair by paradoxing out her own witch, but that despair was, in fact, conserved-- it was shifted upon Homura, who ended up manifesting as a witch in a world where witches should not be, before despair was transmuted into love, and the devil was born.

>>157344965
>durrr everything is about personal taste
No again.
It also really is pathetic how obsessed you are with having the last word.

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>>157344699

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>>157344932

>>157339742
Rebellion demonstrably has artistic integrity because it pisses off people like you.

The whole movie is an in-depth character study that made people mad by showing exactly who Homura was and how she got there. If it had been pure pandering there'd be way fewer ruffled feathers.

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>>157345034
>It also really is pathetic how obsessed you are with having the last word.

He says in the post where he once again attempts to get the last word. I'd call you clever if you weren't so transparently trying to save face at this point. Can you honestly tell me why you haven't killed yourself at this point in your life?

>>157345057
I wish your life wasn't so pathetic, that way you wouldn't be so obsessed with shitposting on this site.

>>157345100
Rebellion Made Homu's character actually good.
Her going from moeblob to badass in the anime was quite lackluster, but her development in rebellion was nothing short of great.

>>157345111
No, as you've been told many times before, you are the only one obsessed with getting the last word. Trying to reason with you and make you realize what you're doing is wrong is not trying to get the last word.

>>157345019

The TV series ending is a deus ex machina, it suddenly and in a contrived manner removes the central conflict. Rebellion's ending is a twist: it suddenly and in a cleverly forshadowed manner created a whole new conflict.

I say that Rebellion saved Madoka. I just hope the concept film doesn't ruin it all.

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>>157345012
>I don't think it's a question of which is more, its more like magical girl energy is constantly being burned up so it can't cover everything.

Well it's canonically both. QB explains that the greatest release of magical energy is when a gem turns to a seed, and it's also explained that the transfer rate of magic between a seed to a gem is inefficient, in comparison to the preternaturally efficient reaction of soulgem->grief seed.

A mutual kill with Walpurgisnacht is impossible for the reason I explained above. The whole point of the lore in Madoka is to write tragedy into the fabric of the universe: only by stepping outside of it is Homura able to subvert the natural disadvantage magical girls are placed at.

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>>157345222
>No, as you've been told many times before, you are the only one obsessed with getting the last word

Ahaha, ok bud. Please enjoy the rest of my posts!

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>>157345289
would you give a traitor headpats?

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>>157345350

>>157345289
Do you think of you don't quote the other half of that post that no one will see how it explains why you are wrong?

And your in ironic use of exclamation points just outs you are new shit cancer so much.

>>157337888
But it was character development, and pretty well done too considering it was set up in the TV series instead of Homura spontaneously wanting Madoka pussy all of a sudden in the movie.

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>>157345388

>>157345223
It's not a deus ex machina, it's set up. In fact it's the whole point. Madoka's wish is the most prominent plot point brought up in the first episode. The entire show is about Madoka learning when, where, and how to use that wish to resolve a problem with the order of the universe. It can't be contrived when every episode is about the mechanics of that wish and what Madoka learns as a person to be able to make that wish.

Homura turning things around in Rebellion is more of a deus ex machina, because while it's set up thematically, hijacking Madoka's godhood isn't mechanically established or explained.

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>>157345403
>Do you think of you don't quote the other half of that post that no one will see how it explains why you are wrong?

>>157345222
>you are the only one obsessed with getting the last word.

>>157345223
>it suddenly and in a contrived manner removes the central conflict
See >>157343259
It's not sudden if it's brought up as an actual plot point, and it's not contrived if the mechanism is explained. Homura killing Walpurgisnacht would be deus ex machina.
Moreover, the series ending was exactly what permitted Rebellion to exist.

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>>157345438
>hijacking Madoka's godhood isn't mechanically established or explained.

it actually is, please read this thread, where I explain it:

>>157342953

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>>157345504
this thread needs more homus

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>>157345552
that's the good stuff

>>157345438
>hijacking Madoka's godhood isn't mechanically established or explained
It can, however, be inferred. Homura is intimately and uniquely tied to Madoka and the same strings of fate that granted Madoka her power as the result of her timeloops. It's why naked lesbian space hugs happened. It's why Homura is the only one who remembers her. In essence, it's a magical tug-of-war between Madoka and Homura.

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>>157345603
this shoujo sharks you for all your money: what do you do

Madoka threads are really autistic.

>>157345438

As I have said no amount of set up can contradict two facts about the narrative: 1) the wish interrupts Homura's arc at it's most crucial moment of resolution and prevents her resolution from occurring 2) Madoka's aditionall power boost that lets her be a magical girl even after she has become a witch is a violation of the universe's own internal logic.

Interruption, contrivance forced resolution. Deus Ex machina, and a bad one. Want to see a good Deus Ex Machina? End of Evangelion. It waits until after all the other plot threads have been resolved, pays off on continuously building stakes that unit-01 had demonstrated through the whole series, went all the way in the execution department and felt truly powerful, godly, redirected the focus of the narrative onto the characters and gave all of them a completed story arc, though confusing one at that.

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>>157345652

>>157337888
Gen happened.

>>157345504
That's thematic. It's explained WHY she does it, it's not explained or established HOW she does it.

The best answer I've ever been able to come up with is that it goes back to her original wish, which was basically to protect Madoka from a position of superiority. Madoka undoes her wish but she's still a magical girl, so when she realizes she got conned, she gets the wish again. But that gets into silly wish semantics which the series never really uses anywhere else.

>>157345621
That's really not a satisfactory explanation at all and isn't in the movie anyway.

It's set up thematically but there is no logically consistent explanation for what she actually did.

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>>157345672
>Madoka's aditionall power boost that lets her be a magical girl even after she has become a witch is a violation of the universe's own internal logic.


It fucking isn't and the reason why it isn't has been explained multiple times ITT. If you don't want to read the explanation, then stop posting about it watch the show again.

>>157345465
Again, it's not trying to get the last word, it's trying to make you be reasonable. You can have the last word all you want, so long as that last word is reasonable.

>>157345670

God. You have no idea.

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>>157345709
>That's thematic. It's explained WHY she does it, it's not explained or established HOW she does it.

Gotta read the whole thread my dude, not just that post.

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>>157345731
>Again, it's not trying to get the last word, it's trying to make you be reasonable. You can have the last word all you want, so long as that last word is reasonable.

Well, let's see how long I can make you wait for a "reasonable" last word.

>>157344848
Aren't you doing the same?

>>157345725

>You aren't living your life correctly

OK, then just tell me what lets Madoka reappear as a magical girl after she becomes a witch and destroys the world in the last run of the time loop?

homura is such a trashy character. immortal and too much of a dumb bitch to realize the implications.

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>>157345800

>>157345672
Oh fuck off. That's retarded. It has nothing to do with power levels, the wish is extremely explicit in what it does, the paradox it creates, and the resolution of that paradox fundamentally changing the rules of the universe. It is made explicitly clear that this is allowed about ten episodes earlier by Kyubey, and explained exactly why in episode 10.

Also End of Evangelion isn't a deus ex machina either. Stop using that phrase, you clearly don't know what it means. Shit in EoE was established (if incredibly poorly conveyed or outright absent).

Go read/see the Tempest. That's the quintessential deus ex machina.

>>157345672
>the wish interrupts Homura's arc at it's most crucial moment of resolution and prevents her resolution from occurring
Which, while true, does not a deus ex machina make.
>Madoka's aditionall power boost that lets her be a magical girl even after she has become a witch
How can Madoka possibly become a witch when she has preemptively and retroactively prevented the existence of all witches across space and time? Her wish came true, so her witch cannot exist. There's nothing contrived about that.

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>>157345813
That's not even what happens in the show - her wish turns her into a law of the universe, not a magical girl. She destroys "the world" because she's rewriting the laws of the universe in accordance with her wish.

>>157345813
Her wish you dumbass. She destroys every witch with her own hands in the past, present, and future, creating a paradox which is then resolved by creating a new universal order.

This is shown, on screen, with narration explaining what's happening.

>>157345800
I already know you are mentally handicapped and it is physically impossible for your brain to function like a normal human. You will never be reasonable, so the next best thing is to make you look bad publicly.

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>>157345884
Watch Rebellion to find out how being a law of the universe works out for the girl!

>>157345807
No, you are the one ruining threads and shitposting. Telling you to stop is not shitposting.

>>157345847

The tempest? The resolution of the tempest was not Deus Ex Machina, it was character development. Prospero undergoes an arc of sympathy and though he has the power to defeat his rivals and control his subordinates, he CHOOSES to relinquish his power. He gives up his power by his own will because he discovers that he has used it to it's fullest need, and desires not to be a tyrant to his rivals, but to be seen as an equal.

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>>157337888
>>157338414
>>157339742
>>157339971
>>157340062

>>157345765
I'm not reading the thread, just link the post with directly relevant points if you think you have an explanation with textual evidence.

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>>157345891
>You will never be reasonable, so the next best thing is to make you look bad publicly.

Listen, if you're really just lonely and want to talk to me, if you admit it, I promise to stop telling you to kill yourself. Otherwise feel free to operate under the pretense that you're simultaneously waiting for me to be reasonable and convinced of my irrevocable mental handicap as a way to prevent yourself from coming to the obvious conclusion that you can't leave a conversation feeling offended.

>>157345709
How can you explain Homura bearing witness to the universe being rewritten? How can you explain Homura remembering an existence that no longer is? It is by that same mechanism that she can interact with Madoka in ways others cannot.

Yeah, you don't know what Deus Ex Machina is.

DEM is an event that happens OUT OF NOWHERE with no substantial explanation, foreshadowing, and lacks coherence within the lore of the series or the abilities of the characters.

This is a Deus Ex Machina:
>Bobby is walking down a street
>A group of thugs demand his money or his life
>Unable to do anything, he gives out his wallet
>Superman then saves Bobby from the thugs

Something like Madoka's wish which was hyped up for literally the entire series is not in anyway a DEM. Kyubey even outright says she can become a god at one point.

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>>157345952
just follow the posts I was responding to then, it's like half a dozen posts of explanation.

Start here I guess:
>>157339996

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>>157346003

>>157345964
No, I genuinely want you to stop breathing. With you dead threads would be drastically better.

>offended
Nice tumblr word.
You're so pathetic in how you always try to make things about emotions.

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>>157346040

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>>157346043
>With you dead threads would be drastically better.
That's more my speed anyway!

>offended
>Nice tumblr word.

For a nice tumblr guy.

I want to kill homura

>>157345875

She would have to be more powerful than her balance of curses. Witches wouldn't exist in the world where Madoka and Gretchen cancel out. Nothing should exist in that world. Witches won't exist and magical girls won't exist, neither will the obliterated planet earth, but that is the wish fulfilled. That is consistent with the universe's rules. But Madoka has an extra power boost that lets her become god to make sure there is something rather than nothing. Now I know that's a needed plot device for the narrative but there's no reason for it in the narration. About the only explanation is "Because it's Madoka." Maybe if she were like Lain or Haruhi, if she was god all along it would make sense but Madoka just runs with it with no significant reasoning.

>>157345981
That's pretty simple, her wish is specifically about Madoka. Therefore, her entire existence as a magical girl is about Madoka. That's actually in the series instead of some vague strings of fate cliche.

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>>157346112

>>157337888
It's not like anybody had character development in Madoka.

Mami gets no development for three episodes then dies, and no, shit that is not explained or shown in the show itself doesn't count.

Sayaka gets half an arc and then hard 180s into a complete bitch instead of having a believable breakdown.

Kyouko suddenly becomes an incredibly nice person who would sacrifice her life for Sayaka out of nowhere.

Madoka cries for twelve episodes.

>>157337888
30 years of seeing the love you obsess over die will do that to you.

>>157346112
You're not a nice guy.
And really, do you think you'll stop ruining threads any time in the next few years?

>>157345949

>Dissapearance

Now that was a bad deus ex machina, right up there with Dante's circle jumping in the inferno.

>Climactic knife fight!
>Kyon's gonna die!
>Wait, future Mikuru is here for some reason why?
>Passes out
>Wakes up
>Ishiki tells him everything is fine now.

What the fuck?

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>>157346163

>You're not a nice guy.
I am, indeed, a bad guy.

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>>157346211

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>>157337888
Reminder that Shinbo and Butcher are hacks that literally ended this story with a Deus ex Machina perfect ending created by "the power of love™".

Not to mention sequel bait and then sit on their hands and do jack shit.

>>157345992

That is literally what happens in Madoka. Just replace Billy with Homura, Superman with Madoka and the thugs with Walpurgisnacht.

>>157345923
Well, first off, I am not that anon, feel free to tag us both so I can give you a cap. Second, you seem to be overreacting and autistic enough to fall for his low quality bait. I knew these threads were awful, but fuck you guys take it to the next level.

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>>157346251

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>>157346262
how many times do we have to explain this to you old man

>>157346136
>That's pretty simple, her wish is specifically about Madoka
Then you answered why she is able to steal her powers.
>That's actually in the series instead of some vague strings of fate cliche
This is in the series, too, as the explanation for how Madoka gets stronger with each successive time loop.

>>157346140
What are you smoking? Character development merely requires the character to not be static. Whether it's good or "deep" character development is another matter.

>>157346140
Mami gets development. She tries to be the unflappable cool mentor and then breaks down a little and reveals her vulnerable side, and then she dies.

Sayaka gets development. She pretends to be upbeat and cheerful but reveals a little bit of darkness early on, her shallow desire to be a hero of justice is revealed and she eventually accepts how shallow and stupid she was and then she dies.

Kyouko gets development. She starts off hedoninstic and selfish, and eventually gets touched because she sees herself in Sayaka going down the same path of ruination. She regains some of the hope and heroism she belived in as a kid, and then she dies.

Meanwhile Madoka is learning from everyone dying all around her. She starts off with a general unselfish love and an unfocused desire to help everyone around her regardless of her own desires. Then Mami dies and she understands fear and self-preservation and doesn't want to become a magical girl to help people, even though she feels guilty over that. Then Sayaka spirals out of control and she realizes she has to overcome her fear to get involved and help people, pivotally when Sayaka's yelling at her. Then she learns some wisdom and restraint from Kyouko who tells her not to get involved rashly, without considering the circumstances. Finally she learns something about determination and what it means to sacrifice from Homura, and only then does she make her wish. That's the whole point of the story.

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>>157346323

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>>157346386

>>157346323

Look, I guess I shouldn't care, just I ask that if you think Madoka isn't a DEM know that I respectfully disagree with a single negative corollary that I hope none of you become writers.

>>157346140
so did you actually watch the anime or do you have an extreme lack of understanding what's happening on the screen
>>157346121
Holy shit

She's not an omnipotent god. She's a concept. She literally can't do shit other than interfere with witch and magical girl related things. She even has a fucking name as a concept called "Law of the Cycle".
This concept exists in a newly created universe born from her wish, and yet, AS EXPLAINED AND SHOWN, even in this universe the incubators still manage to find a way to leech off magical girls, albeit in a much weaker manner.

And as said before, Kyubey LITERALLY says she can become a god. She LITERALLY destroys the entire world at the 4th time loop.
Homura has gone through at least 100 time loops.

Heck, this even makes more sense considering that Kyubey's power and wants come from wanting to save the entire universe, and, AGAIN, as Kyubey said, Madoka alone turning into a witch just solved the entire universe's problem. That is how powerful she is.
>b-but how did she become so powerful
Literally also explained in the series. You don't even have to analyze it any way or form.

How can you be this mentally inept

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>>157346427

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>>157346428
It's not a matter of disagreement though, it's been explained to you multiple times that nothing about Madoka's wish violates the laws of the show. As soon as someone explains it to you, you respond to someone entirely different saying that it is a DEM, and start the discussion again. But whatever if you didn't like the show I'll just chalk it up to taste.

>>157346121
>neither will the obliterated planet earth
How, exactly will planet Earth be obliterated if there are no witches or magical girls to destroy it? Madoka's wish inherently makes her stronger than her witch-- if she and Gretchen "cancelled out", then the other witches could not be destroyed. By wishing to destroy every witch, she is inherently more powerful than every one. The explanation is given-- her magical potential is artificially inflated by being the focal point of recursive time loops.

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>>157346513

>>157346208
When I watched rebellion, you all hyped up satan homura, I thought there was going to be a big conflict and resolution, like satan declaring that he will make hell into his heaven

but homura just became yuki, and madoka kyon

the next movie is probably going to be a 1:1 of disappearance exactly

>>157346429

Call me arrogant if you want, I just think I've put a lot more thought into this. You're still granting the Madoka the ability of power beyond the Wish/Curse balance. That is such a fundamental concept in the series but Madoka re-appears and trumps it with the line "Don't worry! Not even I will become a witch if my wish comes true!" that'd be great Madoka, but there's no narrative precedent for you to have the power to violate the universe's own internal structure, unless we just call you God out of this machine that is the plot and move on.

I just didn't move on so smoothly as most viewers.

>>157346428
I love how smug you act whilst not knowing anything you're talking about.

Let me tell you in bits so maybe you can understand.
- Madoka Magica is a show revolving around wishes, therefore we understand that it is in the lore of the series that sudden events happen because of a single wish
- Madoka has extreme potential as magical girl
- Kyubey literally says she can become a god
- As a witch, she destroys the entire world
- At one point, Madoka's turning into a witch saves the entire universe from its death
- Madoka doesn't become a god, but instead becomes a concept which does not allow witches to exist

How can you be this dense

Go back to high school and learn what a Deus Ex Machina is again.

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>>157346571

>>157343927
>Because that's the fulfillment of the character's arc
Holy shit, you talk about how Rebellion didn't pander and therefore was great yet your entire criticism of the series is that it didn't pander to your wish fulfilment. God you're a fucking pathetic cunt. The entire point of the show was that Homura wasn't able to let go of Madoka, to let her live out her destiny, and instead made herself suffer by denying it. The end was perfect because she learned to let go and Madoka was finally set free, serving a purpose. Rebellion shat all over both that and Homura's development. Rebellion is absolute garbage and only the yuri fags who have nothing other than pussy grinding on their minds hold it to be anything else but bottom of the barrel schlock.

>>157346262
Except if Billy had watched a news program showing Superman defending justice in the streets, the existence of Superman would be established, and we would know that Superman saving Billy would be a reasonable event, and therefore not deus ex machina.

>>157346584
>>the next movie is probably going to be a 1:1 of disappearance exactly

No. Don't do that. That's like a hex spell.

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>>157346589
>You're still granting the Madoka the ability of power beyond the Wish/Curse balance.

This is because her wish converted emotional energy from literally beyond the universe, supplied by Homura's looping. Which was explained to you at the very beginning of this thread.

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Daily reminder that the OVAs are trash and you should stop at the TV serie.

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>>157346610
>Rebellion shat all over both that and Homura's development. Rebellion is absolute garbage and only the yuri fags who have nothing other than pussy grinding on their minds hold it to be anything else but bottom of the barrel schlock.

this is an incredibly bad opinion.

To guy complaining about the "DEM": I suggest you rewatch the show and pay careful attention to how QB describes the relationship between witches and magical girls, and Madoka's magical potential.

>>157346610
This, fucking this. Homura being willing to let go and being rewarded in death with a reunion is bittersweet but satisfying. For fuck sake she does the ultimate display of letting go when she gives the ribbon Madoka gave her in space to Madoka's mom.

Now it turns out she never let go at all and by manipulating the desires and words of a Madoka who has ZERO concept of the sacrifice she made she returns to her obsessive self and is rewarded with unlimited power and a human avatar to fuck Madoka with too boot.

Rebellion is just a bitter pill to swallow despite it's ending being more rewarding to the cast.

>>157346612

Wait. Hang on. You just laid out a scenario that would be a definitive Deus Ex machina with no strings attached, I show you how it is directly applicable to Madoka and now you want to say that you can change it from being a deus ex machina by changing the content outside of the scene you laid out? Categorically ridiculous! By that example was a deus ex machina made by my attribution to madoka was my case established and now you want to move the goalposts of what I presume is your own example? Outrageous!

>>157346589
What the fuck are you talking about? Several people have explained this to you. The entire point of the show is Madoka changing that fundamental concept, and the show dedicates twelve whole episodes to exactly why and how that's accomplished.

You cannot possibly be this dense.

>>157346589
No, you retard. You haven't put much thought into this at all. I've watched the series 7 times, I can attest to that.

It's not a paradox. Madoka is not an existential being anymore, she's a concept.
Her concept is to not allow witches to exist. The universe is reformed to allow this concept to exist.
Therefore, even her witch is not allowed to exist in this reformed universe.
Wishes don't undo themselves when they turn into a witch. Kamijo doesn't turn disabled again when Sayaka turned into a witch and subsequently killed.
It is simply in a much grander scale due to the potential Madoka has.
Kyubey fucking said in the series that her witch would've destroyed the entire universe, "put a lot of thought" my ass. It's not beyond the ability of the Wish/Curse balance.

You're just embarrassing yourself with your ignorance.

>>157346665
>literally beyond the universe

Your case against Madoka being Deus ex machina is not being helped by such argument. If anything you're only strengthening the need for a more sturdy and elaborate machina.

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>>157346786
>Your case against Madoka being Deus ex machina is not being helped by such argument.

Don't be purposefully dense, it's beyond the universe the last episode takes place in, not the universe of the show.

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Homura is a good girl who deserves love and eternal salvation.

>>157346363
Character development is a buzzword for those idiots.

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>>157346804
I think this is my fault for not explaining this in simpler terms at the start and thinking you were complaining about something you weren't. All you need to do is rewatch episode 12 and listen to QB to understand why it isn't a DEM.

>>157346673
What is so wrong with them besides cutting scenes and stuff?

>>157346610
>>157346748
>The end was perfect because she learned to let go and Madoka was finally set free
Except such a thing happening would be retarded based on Homura's circumstances. Rebellion is the logical progression based on her wish, her character, instigated by Kyubey's actions.

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>>157346807
She will get eternal yuri sex and hugs once she dies.
OH WAIT SHE'S THE BAD GUY NOW NEVERMIND

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>>157346807
this is my shit. post more anon.

I want to kill the usurper!

>>157346804

I'm not being intentionally dense. By saying that the element needed came from beyond the universe of the show is simply more evidence that you're arguing FOR a deus Ex machina. All I have to do is call the 'beyond' Heaven or Olympus or Vaginalhalla and the case is made for me. Keep going like that and you may find you're arguing with yourself.

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>>157346884

>>157346868
This. Rebellion walks you through Homura's entire life and thought process.

The whole movie is Homura realizing that she made a mistake and got duped out of her wish, and that he end of the show was just her lying to herself after she had failed yet another time to protect Madoka.

>>157346756
Not even me (the original poster of that hypothetical DEM scenario), but you're acting even more retarded.

The example he's shown is not a DEM due to the fact that it is established Superman exists in this universe.
Madoka turning into a concept is not a DEM due to the fact that she is shown capable of that kind of power in this universe.

The first scenario is a DEM due to the fact there is no foreshadowing and there is no laid-out lore or background that allows this to happen.

Do you now know what a DEM is, or are you still acting that smug even though you STILL don't know what you're talking about?

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>>157346905
> By saying that the element needed came from beyond the universe of the show

That's...literally the opposite of what my post said.

Anon are you drunkposting

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>>157346843
>Character development is a buzzword for those idiots.

>>157346868
>Except such a thing happening would be retarded based on Homura's circumstances.
No, anon, YOU are fucking retarded. The entire premise of Homura's suffering stemmed from her unwillingness to let Madoka go, and through that unwillingness she put both herself and the person she is trying to "protect" through an endless cycle of suffering. The end is her coming to terms with that and setting both herself and Madoka free. This is about as fucking basic as tragedies get. Go pick up a book some time instead of wanking away your brain to chinese cartoon girls you goddamn mouthbreather.

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>>157346949

>>157346756
You fucking moron, showing Superman on the news is equivalent to Kyubey saying that Madoka has godlike potential. These establish plot points that can resolve narrative conflicts in the future, making them not deus ex machina.

>>157346868
What circumstances? The Incubators planning to capture the Law of Cycles? Because as far as I know that is solely from Rebellion.

Really the only evidence that supports Rebellion's story from the original is Homura stupidly talking about Witches to the nu-Incubators. Of course that implies that Homura somehow planned on the nonsensical shit that happens in Rebellion, knowing that in the end she'd achieve godhood because of it. Which is rather retarded to defend.

>>157346951
This image is correct.

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>>157346971
don't be so mad anon, how will you convert him if you're so mean

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>>157346998
hi anon I see you're troubled about Rebellion, please refer to this reply chain: >>157339996

for an explanation of why Rebellion is Good, Actually.

>>157346989

You're just moving goal posts.

>This is a deus ex machina.
OK, here's how that's exactly like what happens in the last episode
>Yeah, but they talked about it!

So? You already laid out the criteria, I already showed you how its directly applicable. At this point you can't contradict me without contradicting yourself. You have to say your original superman model is not a deus ex machina because that's what my argument is based on and you can't shift the goalposts when our cases are fundamentally the same.

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>>157347065

>>157346937
You mean retcons/frames it in a convenient way to allow for more cashgrabs ?
Homura's tragedy was something caused by her own inability to accept fate, and the more she tried to "fix" things by being unyielding the more karma fucked her in the ass for trying to fuck with the flow of events.
At the end of the serie she finally understands she can't avoid Madoka's fate and lets go, at the same time she becomes the lone warlock hunter paying off her own karma waiting to be reunited with Madoka.
Rebellion shits all over that by turning Homura from a tragic heroine to selfish obsessed lesbian.

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>>157347094
>So? You already laid out the criteria, I already showed you how its directly applicable.

Anon, at this point, I have to wonder what the fuck you're actually doing. I've explained to you why it isn't a DEM three times now, and every time you've ignored it and started arguing with someone else. Do you just...like arguing about this?

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>>157347140

>>157347107
She never consciously lets go, she just loses. Rebellion demonstrates how flawed your understanding of Homura is.

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>>157347173

>>157347177
No she doesn't, nothing stops her from turning back time once again.
If anything you might make a point she gave up instead.

>>157347094
Is this bait or are you retarded?

It's not a goalpost you fucking mongoloid. The problem is your example is NOT directly applicable due to the fact that Madoka's potential was foreshadowed MULTIPLE times in the fucking series unlike the first bobby example. If they fucking talked about it means that it already invalidates the reasoning behind "It's a Deus Ex Machina".
That's like saying a murderer planning to kill someone, kills that someone, and then you shouting "DIABOLUS EX MACHINA"
"S-SO WHAT IF THEY TALKED ABOUT IT"
Retardation.
Let me ask you this. What's a Deus Ex Machina?

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>>157347192

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>>157347271

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>>157347295
starting to run low on bad homu pictures. goodbye cruel world.

>>157346971
>The entire premise of Homura's suffering stemmed from her unwillingness to let Madoka go
Except that's fucking wrong, you dolt. Even before meeting Madoka, Homura was a depressed orphan with a heart condition with no friends, no sense of self-worth, and nothing to live for. Madoka became her sole source of emotional support and her strength inspired Homura to live up to her cool name. When she realizes that she is able to become a magical girl, she finally defines for herself a purpose in life, to become worthy of Madoka. And she fails, miserably, over and over again. But by sheer, inhuman resolve, she endures, accumulating more and more guilt and self loathing, throwing away her humanity for the sole purpose of realizing her goal-- all for nothing. In the end, she fails, and the person she swore to protect, the person she loves, bore the burden of her failure. She's denied her wish and her reason to exist and robbed of her emotional support with no evidence that any of it was even really, but the faint hope that a sole memory might be true. How in fuck's name are you supposed to move on from that, when you're a PTSD-addled emotional wreck? Tragedy is when a hero is undone by their own flaws. This is only short of absurd irony in that Madoka actually managed to accomplish something and Homura's consolation is that she helped slightly. Homura is left with next to nothing for all her labors, at the end of the series.

Can SHAFT just release a new Madoka so that the madoka threads become magically smarter again

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>>157347314
>Machina

How Yuri is this show? What I hear goes between subtext and a proper Yuri show.

>>157347207
Madoka stopped her from turning back time again, she doesn't have a shield after the naked space hug, remember?

>>157347314
Start posting the NSFW ones.

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>>157347346
man this has been a disappointing thread.

>>157347330
>continues fighting Wraiths
>was expected to die and be reunited with Madoka forever
>accomplished nothing

>>157347355
Just watch it already.

>>157347213

You're using foreshadowing as a straw man to shift the goalposts. You laid out what a Deus Ex Machina would be, I demonstrated that it is exactly what happened in Madoka. Supermadoka saved the day. I don't know what else to tell you except you're just wrong and butt hurt.

>>157347355
Kinda subtext in the TV series, too grimdark for the most part for there to be any lovey dovey interactions, then Homura goes full lesbian at the end of the movie.

>>157347408
I have, and there was nothing in it to suggest anything of the sort.

>>157347356
It's been a long while but I remember Homura getting trashed by Walpurgis and considering turning back time only to stop and ask herself what is even the fucking point since she knows it's going not going to work anyways.

>>157347330
>Homura is left with next to nothing for all her labors, at the end of the series
What are you on about ?
She's free from the endless loop of tragedy she was trapped in and she can work for a goal constantly feeling the presence of the person she loves most knowing she will be reunited with her once she's paid her debt.

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>>157347365
that's illegal.

>>157337888

"maybe if i obsess over her and become a slut she'll want to bang me"

>>157347094
For the record, the original example was not me. More importantly,
>Yeah, but they talked about it!
negates a fundamental criterion for deus ex machina.

>>157347469
Why did you talk about what you "hear" instead of your own opinion then? Are you simple?

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>>157347522

>>157347421
Except, again,the bobby example is not what happens in Madoka due to the fact that an event would not be a DEM if it is foreshadowed. The second bobby example is not a DEM because it is laid out that Superman exists in the world.

literally how can someone be this mentally inept of understanding logic and reasoning

>>157347556
My own opinion then is that I have no idea why the Yurifags obsess over this show like it's mana from heaven or something, because they seem to be pulling most of it from their asses.

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>>157347556
>>157347540
>>157347421

can we stop talking about this, DEM anon is not going to be convinced by anything, this has been thoroughly demonstrated, thanks.

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>>157347365
I will walk backwards into hell for you nsfw requesting anon.

>>157347617
Did you not watch the movie to the end where Homura turns into a crazy yandere dyke?

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>>157347683

>>157347540

Absolutely not.

If someone tells me that I will be held at gunpoint and then swooped up into the sky by an albatross who delivers me to safety and that exact scenario happens then it still doesn not change the fact that it is a deus ex machina because Writing 101 here: your story is about how your characters and their arcs develop and deus ex machina's fundamental sin is that it prevents character development. We don't get to see the outcome we are promised. We don't get to see what happens to billy if he has to stand up against robbers. We don't get to see what I do if the albatross doesn't save me and we don't get to see what happens to Homura and Madoka when Homura is defeated by Walpurgisnacht.

Foreshadowing doesn't help anyone out of a deus ex machina, it only serves as a sign post for oncoming lazy, horrid writing that inhibits the development of the characters and insults the audience.

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>>157347725

>>157347421
Just, just let me tell you this bit by bit, okay? I know you're a moe baka grade-schooler just learning how to read and analyze, but that's OK. Just stop being this retarded and it's all good.

>The bobby example is a DEM, due to the fact that Superman was not established in this world.
>You said that example was exactly the same scenario as Madoka's only with difference in characters.
>Someone else provides a edited version of the first example, this time this version has laid ground that Superman exists in this world of Bobby, and therefore it is not a DEM.
>The second example is more similar to Madoka Magica due to the fact "supermadoka" was established to be entirely possible
>Meanwhile, you're literally talking about "goalposts" and dodging the entire subject

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>>157347683
this is as far as we go.

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>>157347801

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>>157347843

>>157347731
When you're literally talking about DEM the entire time but actually don't know what DEM is.

Again, a Deus Ex Machina means "God from the Machine". It's where a problem is abruptly solved without any foreshadowing or tell.

Fucking Character Development has nothing to do with it. Whether or not it prevents it or has sex with it has nothing to do with it.
holy shit stop acting this pretentious

>>157347404
>>157347476
>"I wish to be someone who protects Madoka!"
>is stuck fighting in a world where Madoka doesn't exist

>she can work for a goal
What goal? Her entire life was dedicated to fighting for her wish, which, as it turned out, see above. The only modicum of hope she has is that her memory might be real, which comes into doubt due to her negative nature. She comes to believe Madoka as a figment of her imagination, after all, there's no evidence of her existence. Perhaps she was just an anime character that Homura idealized to the point that she derived meaning out of her melancholic existence by imagining her to be real. If she's simply fighting some imagined cause, then what was the point of all her suffering, how can she cope with all her self-loathing? She has no emotional support as she cannot communicate her experience with anyone, to the point that she even tries talking to Kyubey to validate her feelings. Yes, eventually Madoka would have come for her and reunited, but Homura has no way of knowing this, especially when her isolation and self-loathing causes her to doubt, quickly evaporating her hope. Her depression and PTSD aren't magically gone, either.

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>>157347890

>>157347917
>foreshadowing

You're using that as cover, and I've already shown why neither I nor you should respect it.

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>>157347941

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>>157348002
>>157347917

you guys are going to die itt.

>>157337888
She becomes a lesbian version of herself.

>>157348002
Deus ex machina has nothing to with character development; it has to do with plot events.

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>>157348045

>>157347922
>Is stuck in a world where Madoka doesn't exist
>said world is also a world that Madoka wished for
>she is literally fighting for Madoka
>she is literally protecting Madoka's wish

Only at the flower scene in Rebellion does her selfishness come to devour her senses. She doubted, yes indeed, but that was only due to our knowledge of the Rebellion.

Without it, the ending of the series would stand great as its own, and with Homura's cycle of suffering finally free.

I love Rebellion and you're making me argue against it, what have you done

>>157347922
Then how the fuck do you explain the scene with Homura, Junko and Madoka's brother. So much shit in that scene points to Homura actually letting go of her attachments to break her cycle of suffering.

1. Madoka's brother seems to sense Madoka despite her not existing physically
2. Homura gives up her hair ribbon that Madoka herself gave

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>>157348081
sometimes you just have to paint your girlfriend.

>>157348002
How the fuck is it a cover when everything about a Deus Ex Machina is determined if whether or not it was foreshadowed?

Jesus. Take 2 minutes of your time and research about Deus Ex Machina, then come back here.

>>157347922
>What goal? Her entire life was dedicated to fighting for her wish, which, as it turned out, see above.
Nothing to do with denying Madoka's wish, she wanted to save her life and live happily with her, that's literally all that there is to it.
She realizes she can never save her life but she manages to get in reach of her happily ever after with her.

>She comes to believe Madoka as a figment of her imagination, after all, there's no evidence of her existence. Perhaps she was just an anime character that Homura idealized to the point that she derived meaning out of her melancholic existence by imagining her to be real. If she's simply fighting some imagined cause, then what was the point of all her suffering, how can she cope with all her self-loathing? She has no emotional support as she cannot communicate her experience with anyone, to the point that she even tries talking to Kyubey to validate her feelings. Yes, eventually Madoka would have come for her and reunited, but Homura has no way of knowing this, especially when her isolation and self-loathing causes her to doubt, quickly evaporating her hope. Her depression and PTSD aren't magically gone, either.
This is all OVA introduced shit, at the end of the serie we clearly see Homura satisfied fighting warlocks and the shadow of Madoka supporting her back which she clearly feel.
She did not give a solitary fuck Kyubei didn't believe her, that you would even think she would care about that THING's opinion, or anyone's else for that matter, in the first place is hilarious in of itself.

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>>157348132

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Isn't homura like 23 years old mentally in rebellion?

>>157348074

That's exactly why they are a cheat to the audience. A story is not just connect the dots from plot point to plot point. Every stroke should push the development of character. Character should inform plot and vice versa. As soon as plot obstructs character from realizing the next development it has become a problem and the worst of such a problem is the deus ex machina and among the worst I've seen in the last decade was the Madoka TV finale.

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>>157348190

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>being so literally retarded you can't understand Homura

>>157348207
She's been through about 10 years of time loops.

>>157348144

This has already been addressed.

>>157348207
Yes, I believe an interview stated Homura has done the loop around a 100 times so apparently the math equals around 23.

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Oh shit it's another pointless Madoka thread where two opposing sides (/homu/ and /ABhomu/) argue their points, seeming to never realize their fundamental difference in opinion will not be reconciled.

I've seen these arguments a million times. Do you really have to rehash every thread?

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>>157348241

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>>157348248
homu is a complicated person

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>>157348278
So pitiful anon, have this for charity.

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>>157348313
Exactly. But she is also cute.

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>>157348313

>Homura can travel back in time
>Tell the Megucas about events that are about to transpire to prove it
>Once one event happens, trust established
>Conspire with Megucas to not be magic slaves
>Madoka becomes God again through her selfless wish, but the God side of her leaves her normal body as part of the wish
>Madoka stays with the girls, no monsters or witches to fight anymore
>Kyubey's race denied their energy forever
>Everyone lives happily ever after except the mascot, who lives in agony since he can't have his delicious entropy

Problem solved (in a very basic way, probably could be worded better), skipped all the deep shit. Homura was an idiot for becoming Satan.

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>>157348325
yes! this thread is saved.

>>157348223
And here you are again, talking about something you don't know anything about.

>A story is not just connect the dots from plot point to point.
Yes. That's a plot. That's why there's such a thing called a plot graph.

>Every stroke should push the development of character.
No. Character development isn't the only thing a story can offer. Is that the only buzzword you know?
There are such things like world-building, atmosphere, advancing the story, symbolism.
It's not all about the characters. Stop.

>As soon as plot obstructs character from realizing the next development it has become a problem and the worst of such a problem is the deus ex machina

Except Madoka Magica does not have a Deus Ex Machina. Take some minutes of your time and RESEARCH what a Deus Ex Machina is.

Here I can just see a person whining "wahh why isn't the ending the ending i want"
about why the ending wasn't as happy as it could get

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>>157348384
Homura saves the day yet again.

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>>157348384

>>157348353
You forgot the part where the universe implodes because the lack of space cats energy.

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>>157348223
Are you mentally disabled? Go read more on plot structures and plot itself. Did you even listen in English class?

>>157348259
It hasn't. All you do is talk about the magic of "goalposts".

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>>157348397
as expected of the meguka with the best hair

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Homu a loev.

>>157348353
>>Tell the Megucas about events that are about to transpire to prove it

This is where it breaks down. She tried it once and all she found is that Neither Mami nor Sayaka believed her and Madoka one way or the other tried to coddle both sides to keep the peace. Then when Mami couldn't deny the fact that she would become a witch went psychotic and started killing magical girls. Thus Homura couldn't tell the others the truth for fear that Mami would snap and start rampaging.

>>157348096
>Junko: "Is Madoka some anime character?"
>Homura: "Maybe."

Homura could then rationalize all her memories of Madoka as essentially self-insert escapist fanfiction from her shitty life.

As for the ribbon, you could just as easily interpret that as her feeling unworthy of the item, and offering it back to a more rightful owner.

>>157348145
>she wanted to save her life and live happily with her, that's literally all that there is to it.
Homura didn't give a damn about living happily with Madoka; she would be content to die so long as it meant Madoka wouldn't suffer as a magical girl.

>This is all OVA introduced shit
Movie, not OVA, which also makes infinitely more sense than the breakneck one-episode 180 of everything being fine and Homura's emotional scars being erased.
>satisfied fighting warlocks
Resigned to her fate.
>Madoka supporting her back
A "ganbare" once in a while is not emotional support.
>she would care about that THING's opinion
It's not about caring about others' opinions, it's about confirming the legitimacy of her memories.

>>157348426
I wonder if we were supposed to see a parallel between Homura and the Incubators.
Both are fighting to deny the inevitable, Homura can't prevent Madoka's death and only stall it, Incubators can't prevent the heath death of the universe, only push it back.
...nah I'm probably reading too much into things

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>>157348445

>>157348439

It's a logical fallacy. Look it up.

>>157348353
Except this did happen. At episode 10.

It is also the timeline where Mami got batshit crazy and shot everyone.

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>>157348462
oh man this thread is poppin now

>>157348426
Does this really matter?

I mean, Heat death is going to fucking happen in real life and no one is really panicking on Earth because it'll take trillions if not more years to happen.

Seems Incubators only care because they have the power to care, but in the end it's still a long way off.

>>157348468
Why didn't she just tell everyone except Mami?

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>>157348524

>>157348468

And before you ask she couldn't say it after Mami died because she needed Sayaka to help with the final battle.

She's trash regardless

>>157348516
You talk of logical fallacies and you're committing an Argumentum Ad Logicam and an Ad Nauseam.
Sorry, wrong person to talk about fallacies.

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>>157348554
Homura is Absolutely Diabolical.

>>157348489
>((god))
>can't even create an Avatar
>souls in her afterlife want to leave for yuri and fucking cheese

Madoka was a shit god.

>>157348544

They might tell Mami. Besides at some point Homura just stopped caring about the others altogether and focused on saving Madoka.

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>>157348445
She is so cute hnnnnnghhhh

>>157348207
Her body is still as young as before. That means brain too.

>>157348471
>Homura didn't give a damn about living happily with Madoka; she would be content to die so long as it meant Madoka wouldn't suffer as a magical girl.
If that was her choice she would've accepted a double suicide, she clearly wanted Madoka and her to be alive together.

>Movie, not OVA, which also makes infinitely more sense than the breakneck one-episode 180 of everything being fine and Homura's emotional scars being erased.
Better than turning into a psychopathic evil lesbian.

>Resigned to her fate.
She sure didn't look resignited to me, if anything she was smiling while feeling at peace.

>A "ganbare" once in a while is not emotional support.
>she would care about that THING's opinion
Again you're going off from shit outside the TV serie, and the point I'm making is that the OVAs ( or Movies, whatever ) introduce unneeded elements and mess with something that was fine on its own.

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>>157348594
it just wasn't the right person for the job.

>>157348604
She could tell them not to tell Mami because she'll go crazy.

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>>157348625
it's Too Powerful.

>>157348664
Problem is that the gals trust Mami more than Homura.

>>157346140
Holy shit, it's clear that you really don't know what you're talking about. Begone, shitstain.

>>157348568

I have maintained my positions from their foundational premises through this entire discussion. I have been asked to repeat myself which is not ad nauseam. I have been specific to the specific points to which I have had objection without passing judgement over entire arguments and have attempted to cover each topic point by point so unless you'd like to pull specific examples I dare say that you are simply being accusational or antagonistic or both.

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I love Maitake's works

>>157348649
But her soul aged doing the same shot over and over again and maybe in some timeline those sadpanda doujins are canon.

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>>157348722
post more

>>157348701
But she could use future events to prove she came from the future and is therefore credible.

>>157348718
Everyone's problem is your position is wrong.
You have not been asked to repeat yourself.
Except you have. Invalidating an argument because it is "moving the goalposts" (even though it's clearly not), is an Ad Logicam or a Fallacy Fallacy. Saying something is a fallacious argument does not mean the argument holds merit and truth.

This is why I have already accused you of dodging the argument, because you are. We're talking about logical fallacies now because of your incessant mumbling and trying to act oh so smart.

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>>157348722
>goddess Madoka is watching you fapping right now

>>157348659
What makes her any better?

I seriously doubt, Homura cares enough to go to every magical girl that ever existed and do the salvation job. She doesn't give enough of a fuck about others. People's existence are judged based on how they effect Madoka.

>>157348811
I mean
"Saying something is a fallacious argument does not mean the argument DOES NOT hold merit and truth.

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>>157348830
I was mostly joking, they're not especially comparable positions.

>>157348769
The future changes each rendition. While some things do stay the same, it's way too jittery to just say "this is going to happen".
The first timeline literally had no mahou Sayaka in it, for example.

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>>157348698
Homura can kill me anytime and I'll still die happy tbqhwyf.

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>>157348914
>akuhomu will never crush your neck with her heels

why am I alive

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>>157348765

>>157348865
>Rebellion lets Madoka's wish go on autopilot despite her human aspect just not being there
>never find out how that effects magical girl salvation

Like what? Instead of a gentle hand caressing your face telling you it's ok you get some lobotomized god who scans you and sends your soul away?

In fact, real talk her to the Homufags. How would you feel if the movie actively pointed out. "Yes, Homura's actions had consequences. Now magical girls who die or get corrupted face obliteration of their soul. No presence remains too keep witches culled."

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>>157348980

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>>157349001

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>>157348968
But anon, perhaps one day we will be magical girls and then witches that Homura will kill.

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>>157349027