>man writes romance manga >male and female characters

You do realize that harems count as romance too, right?

>>157247213
Some (wo)men just want to watch the world burn.

>>157247213
Those "men" are obsessed with purity though. They're the scum of Japan so they don't represent the average man. To be fair, the average man isn't that interested on romance and when a non-autist male write romance, it often has a lot of cuckoldry and cheating. Try reading a real book

>>157247680
>woman detected

>>157247213
because the man that write such manga are virgins with no idea of what are the predators of romance.

>>157247680
t. someone who would eat partially eaten food out of the garbage

>>157247213
bitches and hoes

It's because male mangaka are virgins who haven't experienced heartbreak outside of their blow up doll deflating.

>>157247213
>males write wish fulfillment
>women say it how it be

>>157247213
most times male authors are either severely inexperienced or pandering to an inexperienced audience. When the girlfriend is introduced, shes just an item because the author has no idea how to introduce some sense of legitimate conflict. So what you get is I want a girl ------> now she's my girl and like a theoretical gf she loves me and thats it -----> the danger to our relationship is external

>>157247213
You've realized the shoujo and romance are not the same thing and shoujo is FUCKING garbage fuck the cheating fuck the melodrama fuck the fucking love triangles hooooly shit fuck fuck

>>157247213
are there any male shojo writers?

>>157247680
Spotted the cuck

>>157248185
Yes.

>>157247680
>purity is a Jap only thing
I love this meme.

They're writing wish fulfilment. Men want someone worth suffering for, that captures the heart. Women want to drown in attention and desire, that captures the loins.

>>157248293
No, men want the bottom too. Or else we wouldn't have harem genre or women inexplicably pining after bland faggots' dicks

>ITT: whiteknights defending poor writing

>>157248293
>Women want to drown in attention and desire, that captures the loins.
sounds like your average harem thats made by men

Men want a perfect partner that they'll never argue with or stop loving.
Women want to be taboo and have five husbands, two of which are brothers, one of them being her dad, one being the gardener, and one being a long lost Latin man from six years ago.

>>157248143
this, shoujo was a mistake.

its because men have emotions and they just want to be loved, meanwhile all girls wants is to get blacked

>>157248500
You are confusing men and little girls. It's an easy mistake to make an on /a/.

>>157248413
This, holy shit. Fuck off cucks. I bet you're leafs too.

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>>157247680
>Your ideal woman not being pure, loyal, and loving.

How the fuck does a person become like this?

>>157248143
Teenage girls love drama, more news at 11!!!!

>>157247680
>Those "men" are obsessed with purity though.
>don't represent the average man.

wew

>>157247680
im sure 99/100 men would chose the pure virgin girl over the cumrag with 100different DNAs in her

>>157248735
t. virgin

>>157247213
>male and female characters are loyal and loving
I see you don't count harems as romance.

>>157248735
No shit, but the virgin would never choose him. Or the slut. Or any living being.

>>157248803
Harems aren't romance. They're otaku bait.

>>157247680
Its unnatural for males to willingly share females. Ever heard of the animal kingdom?

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>>157248863

>reading romance
You can call me edgy and all but I seriously hope you guys don't do this.

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>>157248735
You'd be wrong.

>>157248735
>>157248940
You are wrong
Now that's 2/100 already

Some people think romance needs soap opera NTR drama to be interesting.

>>157248911
It's not edgy at all. In fact, it's an enlightenment that can only be fully understood by having already been by exposure to countless hours of the genre

>>157248911
>>157249024
edgy

>>157247213
Men are insecure as fuck and can't deal with the fact that women will go look elsewhere if they aren't able to deliver and keep delivering. Also men are incredibly naive when it comes to relationships.

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>>157247213
Men are idealists, so it makes sense for them to use fiction to live out their unattainable fantasies. This could backfire on them however as it hurts them on the inside to not be able to live out the ideal world. Japanese men are just extremes on this case. We all know that feeling.

>>157249170
women are just sluts and bitches, and they have no loyalty

>>157249170
Nothing wrong with being insecure though. It keeps you alert of all bullshit that could happen to you.

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Only men can write gay men.

>>157248795
Well duh, retard. While I disagree with his idiotic statistic, it's just common sense that demanding purity from your ideal partner if you aren't pure yourself is something only a hypocritical faggot would do. Sluts should be for sluts and the pure for the pure.

>>157249170
>men are insecure as fuck
#notallmen Only ugly men with autism or an Freudian mess but they're a minority

>>157249170
Why don't bitches have to deliver then? Fuck them, they can cram their expectations with no return other than pussy up their ass. I'd rather suck a dick than get emotionally manipulated to provide and expect nothing in return
3D was a mistake

>>157249004
No, that's just 2/200 instead.

>>157247265
Harems usually involve chaste protagonists who only pick one of the girls in the end.

>>157249427
>Why don't bitches have to deliver then?
You just don't understand.

>>157247680
t. cuck

No sane man likes cuckoldry and purity has been considered a virtue in pretty much all cultures throughout history.

>ugghhh men write wish-fulfillment
Except Video Girl Ai is still the best romance manga of all times.

>>157249427
Because men are already privileged enough?

>>157249559
Romance in manga is shit anyway. Best romance comes from VNs.

>>157249495
I don't want to.
Can you imagine being so whipped you default to giving up shit to women just to get your dick wet? That's pathetic.
>>157249561
cheap bait

>>157249427
>I'd rather suck a dick
dont worry, you've made that very clear

>>157249469
Do they though?

Are there any mangas about sluts who fall in love? Chaste female protagonists are getting boring.

>>157249796
I'm pretty sure there's a bunch of josei like that

>>157247680
How do I tell the difference between a real book and a fake book?

>>157249587
>Best romance comes from VNs.
Try to leave your basement once in a while. People aren't that scary after you know them

>>157249796
I'm sure someone's written one featuring your mom

The truth is both male and female authors do that sort of thing, there's no need to generalize.

>>157248578
because she would be stupid and boring with no personality,
you will get tired of her and cheat anyway

>>157248735
you're wrong, virgin woman are whiny cunt and can't handle real relationship, just like the male counter part
so only fucking male virgin prefer female virgin

>>157249856
for starter a real romance book isn't called "light novel" or aimed at kids and teenagers

>>157249469
>pick one of the girls in the end.

Out of this board, newfag.

>>157248255
no

>>157250189
Maybe.

>>157248441
>what is a fucking harem contained of boring girl, a violent chick, a childhood friend, mother figure, sister etc

>>157250232
The difference is that a harem is usually five girls pulling at an aloof MC, while female MCs have sex with everyone of them.

>>157250325
What are you even talking about? Reverse harems work exactly the same way normal ones do.

>>157248735
Not really.

To most people, this kind of thing actually doesn't matter.

Also
>100 different DNAs in her
You don't get how biology works, do you?

>>157249864
>imbluying

>>157249170
>>157249417

>Implying women are as secure as fort knox
faggot

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>>157250400

>>157248735
>100different DNAs in her
That's not how DNA works.

>>157250032
That shit mentality is why the west has been turning into an unmitigated dumpster fire over the last 50 years.

Care to explain to me how being pure, loyal, and loving makes someone stupid and boring, and please tell me why you wouldn't want my three previously listed traits in your wife and the mother of your children.

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>>157247213

>>157250613
You know what he means.

>>157247213
>man writes romance
>barebones plot made to put two uninteresting, bland, fumbling virgins on the path to a boring relationship
>woman writes romance
>characters are dynamic with humor, flaws, emotions and put in a setting that forces them to act and react accordingly

I don't think it's really polarized like that but most male writers have no clue what makes a compelling romance with interesting characters. At best they usually just vomit out your young teenage fantasy where two innocent pure characters fine true love in one another. It's boring.

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>>157250843
>young teenage fantasy where two innocent pure characters fine true love in one another.
>It's boring.
People like you deserve to be concentrated in camps.

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>>157250154
ok thank you I found some novels that say they're for adults

>>157249187
this

>>157247213
Because real women were a mistake.

>>157247213

always funny how its always the pathetic virgin losers who want a "loyal" and "pure" girlfriend.
what do you bring to the table guys? overweight and greasy hair?

>>157247213
>>woman writes romance manga
>>full of cuckolding and back biting
Because that's what women are like and it's what they want. They want superior men to come in and crush inferior men while taking the women as mates. Women want that, just read about how women react when conquered. None of them will fight it, they want to be taken by superior men.

>>157247213
Women can't understand loyalty nor honor.

>>157251249
>>157251121
>>>/soc/

>>157250968
For a story? For entertainment purposes? Yeah it's boring as hell. The same reason why if you want to watch something about action you usually don't default to YouTube videos of pasty white 13 year old boys awkwardly flailing at each other on the playground.

>>157251346
>>157251249
How should I put this.... I had a lot of pure girlfriends but, we grow up and get kinky, what's wrong about feeling good?

>>157251121
>>157251249

>always funny how its always the pathetic virgin losers who want a "loyal" and "pure" girlfriend.

The tumblrina is triggered

>>157251514
not triggered, just basking on your ignorance and dreams.

>>157251462
What are you trying to prove here? This guy's post still stands >>157251346

>>157251392
It's boring if you're a degenerate who revels in his own shit. Joseph Goebbels characterised degenerate art by its glorification of vice and the abnorm. The unheroic, the ugly, the sick and rotten is put on the pedestal of artistic ideal. There is absolutely nothing wrong with depicting an ideal and only those who have been thoroughly polluted in mind and spirit would choose a depiction of the ugly over it.

>>157251562
See >>157251602. The depiction of an ideal is completely apart from whether reality lives up to it or not.

>>157251562
Should we put trigger warnings at our post, its because no one loves you anymore, plz tell us we want to know

>you're all just virgins!
>women's liberation fuck yea!
>western society is going down the drain quickly
>civilized and educated folks won't breed and their divorce rates are at an all time high and going up
>2x as many millennials haven't had sex compared to their parents
>increasing unhappiness

ok

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>>157250154

>/a/ - Anime & Manga
Fuck off.

>>157247213
women are disloyal whores who hate one another.

>>157251663
Real women are a mistake, more news at 11.

We are talking romance in anime and manga, not real life.

>>157251566
The point is very simple, if you think that any *person* after their teen years is gonna be pure like in anime and that all relationships are perfect, then you are just ignorant. Sure, it would be nice if they were but I don't think so, this applies to both man and woman.
After teen years romance is overall shit.

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>>157247213
You clearly aren't following the right ones.

>>157251732
Like I said before,>>157248911

>>157251647
so... it's just your dreams then?
exactly.

>>157251663
Statistics are racist and sexist
it's all the fault of millennial
it's all the fault of men
Literally everyone who disagrees with me, actually fuck that, literally everyone period, but me, is a virgin on this mainstream website
Literally only I have had sex here, no one else among the hundred of thousands of posters have had sex
I'm just that unique and special, what can I say?

>>157251602
Tell me what compelling story stems from an awkward tale of romance between 2 characters who spend a laughable amount of time stumbling and struggling to communicate with one another. It's self insert bait at its finest to appeal to those with 0 romantic experience because they simply cannot relate to a male MC that can't look at a female without shaking or stuttering.

>>157251953
>so... it's just your dreams then?
We're talking about anime here. And there is absolutely no good reason to depict an ugly reality in fiction instead of an ideal.

>>157251996
If it is aesthetically pleasing to the audience that's good enough.

>those with 0 romantic experience
Opposed to appealing to used goods whores who don't want to be confronted with something that surpasses their experience and makes them feel inferior?

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>>157249897
>>I'm sure someone's written one featuring your mom

>>157249469
>only pick one of the girls in the end
and that's what makes so many harems garbage

>>157251996
Not him but I'd say most of Sahara Mizu's works fall under "innocent pure characters who find true love in one another", and they're all very good. You should try them. She's a renowned romance author.
Honestly I feel like a lot of nice romance is based on those characteristics, yet you're acting as if it was something impossible. I think the problem lies withing yourself, maybe romance just isn't your thing.

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>Gosh anon, you get so upset about women on the internet, are you scared of women or something? Haha that's so pathetic. Oh are you worried we're gonna beat you up? I'm sure we probably could, I bet you're actually that weak, but you know what can't hit you through the internet tubes. Could it be you're scared of simply being judged? Is a simple glance from our eyes and word from out mouth enough to make you piss your cum-stained undies? Is that why you get so upset and tell us to go away?

>>157251663
>>haven't had sex
>>increasing unhappiness
It's so simple yet like saving the environment, no one really cares.

>>157251828
>that arm

>>157247213
Because men want wish fullfillment while women want to get back at their exes.

>>157250032
>implying you need to let 20 different dudes put their gizz inside your gaping vagina to aquire a personality
Wew.

>>157252631
I'd actually want to see a typical 4chan argument/debate in some sort of gameshow where the first person to resort to violence looses.
Though, the hard part would be getting the real spergs to show up and actually try to win their fight.

>>157252225
You realize your fantasy is no different from a little girl's right? That the idea of finding your one true love with both of you being unmarred by the touch of another is nothing more than a child's fancy. Except most little girls grow up. Purity and innocence simply isn't as appealing as you go on in life and you want someone you connect with on more than one level than your celibacy.

>>157247213
Women love forced drama

>>157247213

Because all men are liars and rapists.

You dont know because you dont lose half gallon of blood every 28 days and dont know street harassment.

Women are inacapable of loving men.

>>157252886
Why are you talking about real life now? I thought this was about anime and manga.

>>157252886
Enjoy your whore and divorce dumbass.

>>157252863
>Without text format everyone would resort to yelling and screaming to be heard
>It's set up to where they have to type out a response and then repeat it back
>all arguments are taken from actual 4chan posts
>the people participating have to dress up as the board-tan from where the argument took place
Contact a network. this needs to be a thing.

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Japanese men are kissless virgins that never talk with vaginas except his mother, this why most mangas and animes are full of >>157248040

We literally have this thread every month, and everyone is still fucking stupid.

It's all the same shit once you look past the narrow selection of stuff you've seen. Most shoujo has a chaste relationship that appeals to little girls who want to get swept off their feet. Most shounen romance is the same, but they want to do the chasing instead but still want he girls to come forward. And both are immature in their on ways. Shounen romance tries to go for more physical interaction,but because it does the emotional aspect usually feels barren, especially if the physical interactions are by-the-book. Shoujo romance is the opposite; it goes for more emotion, but the physical interaction is hollow and the emotional aspect sometimes overdone.

>>157252886
>You realize your fantasy is no different from a little girl's right?
What a coincidence, I happen to be a little girl.

In any case, your argument is entirely worthless because we're talking about aesthetics here. It is unimportant to me or anyone else that some people, broken and jaded, defiled by life itself, prefer to see their ugly reality depicted. That is their own problem. I want to see an ideal in anime.

>>157252427
I'll have you know I'm actually a pathetic underweight non-virgin loser

Maaaaaybe, I dunno...cuz women LOVE DRAMA?!

Shit. Niggas are simple creatures. Feed me, fuck me, shut the hell up and be there. Women aren't like that. They NEED excitement, they CRAVE anxiety and emotional thrills. Never heard it said that men HAVE emotions, but women ARE emotions? It's like how dogs will sniff anything, no matter how sweet or putrid. Smell is part of a Dog's very being.

Why do you think women love blowing shit up into big conflicts? Why do you think they love going through your phone? Why do you think they try to give you the silent treatment for all of 30 minutes if you ask her to stop bitching because she KNOWS you already finished cleaning the gutters?

Can you take this shit to whatever board it belongs on? What kind of fucking retards are you?

>>157250021
No, you don't understand. Men are from Mars and women are from Venus. Men are cheese and women are cauliflower. Men are Tapioca and women are Pelicans.

Pop gender difference is literally the most objective and definitive science of human ontology. We're different because reasons, and all people can be reduced down to a couple stereotypes that look good on paper or make nice fodder for a 300-page self help book by an unemployed writer with an english degree.

>japanese men write what they want, a woman who is cute/beautiful/sexy and cares about them. virginity is an added bonus
>this is seen as bad

>>157253098
>viewers at home wonder why politics and gender issues are fought by boards for cartoons, video games, and anime

>>157252134
>We're talking about anime here. And there is absolutely no good reason to depict an ugly reality in fiction instead of an ideal.
nah fuck you. do you want every story to be happy friendshipip bullshit straight outta precure? Ugly realities make good stories, foster complex characters with many motivations, and allow for a wider breadth of emotions to be expressed. I'm not saying I don't enjoy some mindless mahou shoujo show every now and then, but variety in the medium is always a good thing.

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>>157247213

>man writes romance manga "male and female characters are loyal and loving"

I think in Asano Inio and his masculine idea of romance drill the penis inside of every woman and fuck you

>>157253319
It's a problem because it raises unrealistic expectations which no real woman will ever be able to live up to. NO woman who is over 20 is going to be a perfect, pure, chaste, virginal creature that only exists to serve you. Putting this kind of shit in media is unhealthy because it perpetuates patriarchal entitledness.

>>157253136

>We literally have this thread every month, and everyone is still fucking stupid.

This thread dont is the menstruation of /a/, we dont are girls bleeding hate.

>>157249587
>The most defenseless part, Tohsaka's Anus

>>157253374
>do you want every story to be happy friendshipip bullshit straight outta precure?
I don't demand for other kinds of entertainment to cease to exist. I don't watch them though because they don't appeal to my sense of aesthetics.

>>157247213
Art imitates life

>>157253302
Wait, but cheese and cauliflower taste great together. You lost me there

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>>157253374
>mindless mahou shoujo
>mahou shoujo
>mindless
pfft.
And here we have it, a scathing critique of anime mimesis by a guy who's seen 5.

>>157253389
and don't forget the mushy-blushy stuff like having your woman give you a rimjob, shit in front of you, eat her feces and fuck her asshole after that

>>157253581
So do tapioca and pelicans.

>>157250556

Not an argument, there are countless ways in which the DNA of others enters our bloodstreams every single day and the brain is particularly poor at filtering out things like trash DNA that gets stuck there from the blood.

>>157253537
I can respect that
>>157253621
You see, that's why specified Precure as an example of a mindless mahou shoujo show. Sailor Moon is also up there. You know why? All these girls act however they want and there are no real consequences. Everything is fine and dandy in the end. That's mindless.
Madoka is alright in my book, it's still a mahou shoujo show. It's good because shit has consequences. It's not always fine and good in the end. People die.
Not all mahou shoujo is mindless, but the specific subset I was referring to, clearly I might add, certainly is.

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>>157253132
>that never talk with vaginas
D-do you often talk with vaginas?

>>157253443
kek, is this post serious? I'm sure there are still a lot of 3DPD lovers out there. Feel free to get the fuck out.

>>157250556
>the male DNA can also pass into and become a part of a fetus from an entirely different male. So if your woman has a long track record, then your kids are likely carrying DNA from her past hookups

They're also carrying the DNA of bacteria, the DNA of viruses, and the DNA of insects like ticks and mosquitos inside of them. Having random specks of DNA floating around in someone is like bringing up the fact that dust is 90% skin flecks and when you inhale inside a building you are likely breathing in a pound of yourself and everyone else who lives there.

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>>157253132
End self

>>157253754

Unprotected sex is one of them, you cuck. If the bloody woman even admits that she had a lot of sex, then you don't need to be a genius to guess the "countless ways" Jamal and Chad's DNA entered.

>>157253903
Google "synecdoche"

>>157253903
Nice job figuring out that sentence, ace defective

>>157247213
>One writes a romance between two men
>Rape, stockholm syndrome, I'm only gay for you, I can't get it up to women anymore because of the gay sex I had
If anything yaoi is a bigger indicator about how fucked up women's romances is are. Japan is just full of autists who are dying out for a reason.

>>157253981

Did you know that when you're in the same room as someone else, you're literally inhaling their DNA in the form of skin flecks? Which is easy to then enter our bloodstream through our lungs? I guess we'd all better wear gas masks and kill everyone who comes within fifty feet of our wives then.

>>157253983
It's a french cinema production society founded by David Frenkel in 2011.

>>157247213
>tumblr
>retarded 3D-men-vs-women shitposting thread
Fuck off.

>>157253443
I'm not asking her to be a pure, chaste, virginal creature that only exists to serve me.
I'm just asking her not to have fucked some random dudes.
She can have her flaws, I also have mine.

>>157254175
>It's a french cinema production society
>http://www.unifrance.org/annuaires/societe/350739/synecdoche
Touchè, ace detective, touchè.

>>157254187
>virgin tries to be above it all

>>157253098
>every five minutes they let another "just arrived ITT and didn't read the thread" person into the room who's been told the argument premise but not where they are right now
>some people get secretly given special cards saying "if someone says/does X, you have to flip a shit and tell them to fuck off"

>having sex as a social tool
>not using it to procreate
i can't understand why would you do that, subhumans are truly disgusting.

>>157247680
This. Science has confirmed that cuckoldry is the intelligent people's fetish so It's kind of embarrassing how stupid anti-cucks are by essentially declaring they are idiots thinking they insult others. If I ever marry I hope my wife would have been brave enough to experience as much as life offers so she can get the whole "bad boy" thing out of her system, but even if she wishes to explore further I wouldn't mind since I'm actually educated and open minded and little things like who do you sleep with are absolutely irrelevant in a real loving relationship. Sex is big part of human relationships but it's not the only one.

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>This thread

>>157250843
You keep saying this, except I've seen you post your taste several times now and your idea of "dynamic characters with flaws and emotions" are just a copy-paste spunky teen (or loveless 30-something) who falls in love with the assholish alpha ikemen who's really soft on the inside, and your taste in drama is like the most clumsy and least subtle soap opera shit imaginable. And then you read some actual serious drama like Okazaki Kyoko and you go "Oh, no, this is too mean-spirited, I can't take it." I've had enough of your bullshit, you Naruto-loving, Natsume-hating, "ex-fujo" normalfag bitch. You are further marring /a/'s already negatively-distorted view of shoujo/josei with your terrible opinions and attitudes. Fuck off to tumblr or somewhere else better suited to you.

>>157247213
Romance featuring loyal and loving characters is boring as a box of rocks.

"Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

>>157247845
t. someone who has never been hungry

>>157254719
i can't relate to whiny faggots and desperate bitches.

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>>157254541
>see literal cripple scale the wall
>instead of trying to do it too or even work together to do it, they just get agitated
I'll never understand women

>>157254777
I can't relate to confident people or cute girls, but I read manga about them anyway.

>>157247845
>>157254719
>t.
Fuck off, /int/.

i let other men to fuck my wife because im not an insecure VIRGIN

>>157254815
They seem more in disbelief at what they just saw than agitated.

>>157254815
>they look at him like he is cheating
>maybe even hoping and expecting some bigger, meaner, stronger guy will come to their aid and punish him somehow

>>157254719
Gets it. Unhappiness and conflict write stories, romance has a period of dynamism when you watch two people get together in spite of x and when you see events trying to pull the apart.

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>>157254530
Your kind is polluting this board.

>>157254973
You can have conflict without having sluttiness and its consequences as the main conflict

>>157247680
behold. sweden speaks!

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>this thread
Holy shit, do your fucking job, mods

How the fuck do you guys transform a thread in /a/ in a fucking cuckoldry discussion like this?

>>157255135
Crossboarders, son

>>157255038
If the source of the conflict isn't other people, then it's either going to be material circumstances (death, family circumstances), ambition (going to music school, smell ya later!), angst dialed up to eleven (am I really good enough???) or MISUNDERSTANDINGS.

All of these are more or less unrealistic among normal people, who are weak reeds, fall in and out of love, and are often shitty people.

>>157255038
And you can have it with sluttiness and the like. Cheating causes strong emotions and lots of conflict. Other ways of creating conflict in romance would be external threats that get kinda boring and generally don't make the readers react with quite as strong emotions, since we have easy villains and easy heroes and now you pretty much have to watch the hero foil the villain.

It's as the difference between creating hero with a sin archetype using something silly as "I didn't manage to save someone and now I fault myself and edge" and something like "I am guilty of actually killing someone readers liked very much".

>>157255234
>romances having difficulty because of ambition, material circumstances, or "angst dialed up to eleven" (i.e. internal issues) are unrealistic
Not really.

>>157255234
What, so according to you the only realistic cause of romantic conflict is being attracted to other people?

>>157254955
now this is projecting

>>157255370
Okay, it is pretty common, but when played out "normally" like that they're not romantic in the slightest. One partner goes to Toudai, one doesn't, the relationship collapses because long-term relationships often don't work out, the end. Greatest love story ever told.

>>157255455
It's mostly people getting fed up with their partners, but that's even less romantic.

>>157247680
You go grul!

>male written "romance"
>nobody kisses and they act like autists who faint with hand holding

>female romance
>realistically portrayal of teenager with hormones and a sex life

>>157255651
>romance is solely sex
disgusting fat nEEt

>>157253804
Fuck off.

>>157255705
When you're going to involve teenagers, sex and physical affection will be an important part of it. Because it's an age where hormones take over.

Those unrealistic 16 years old sexless dolls that the otaku call "characters" are bland and unrealistic. They are just nine years old in an adult body.

>>157255506
I think the problem here is you just dismissing these things based on "muh reality." You just said "romance has a period of dynamism when you watch two people get together in spite of x," and then you went "Whoops, long-distance relationships don't work, the end." You see the disconnect there? That's the whole fucking strength of fiction, you get to have things happen according to narrative structures rather than strictly realistic causality/probability. A good romance writer could take that long distance relationship and make it work while showcasing the characters' emotions in an emphatic way. Or they could go the melancholy route and make it not work out, while showcasing the characters' emotions in an emphatic way. The premise matters much less than the execution, it's just an excuse to let the author get at the characters in extreme situations, and most "muh realism" romances about cheating and shit don't do that, they just present the drama with no artistry and expect people to be emotional simply at the concept. Good writing is making the insignificant significant, not relying on the natural significance of events to carry itself, because that doesn't work. I'd take someone like Adachi, who writes completely mundane highschool romances with an excellent sense of character-handling and general storytelling, over the vast majority of trashy "adult" romances.

>>157254242
Somehow I feel you drastically underestimate the number of your flaws.

>>157255781
>When you're going to involve teenagers, sex and physical affection will be an important part of it. Because it's an age where hormones take over.
But you're involving fictional teenagers who exist only according to what you write. There's no reason they have to be like that.

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>>157255715
sorry to ruin your day little girl

>>157248735
Since i'm a relative normalfag i can tell that virgins are horrible.
They are terrible at every part of the relationship, including sex, and they are clingy as fuck most of the time.
Of course it is good to not go with THE literal cumrag whose sole purpose of existence is to bring a new cock to fuck in her house every single day

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i might be late but here's your daily reminder

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>>157247213
Majority of female authors are fucked in the head. Just look at Usagi Drop and Rakugo.

>>157256217
>muh mature anime

No seriously, fuck off and kill yourself, cancer.

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>>157247213
It's because of how differently men and women experience love and the "chase".
Men, generally speaking, always try to win through the hard way: making her laugh, seducing her, improving themselves, declaring their affection, etc. The ones who differ from this way of doing things, even if they succeed, are often seen as jerks and assholes. These are the usual villains in stories, and they often get beaten up or, at least, get hated.
Women, on the other hand, are the ones being chased. So, for the right person to chase them, they need to resort to tricks and social engineering. They will backstab, they will cheat, they will use people. Anything in order to achieve what they want. That's why women hardly ever fight physically, but attack each other's social status on a daily basis. This reflect on their stories.

I've known enough men and women to see how different they perceive the world. A guy, for as much as an asshole he might be, he usually still has some pride and some ideals, there are boundaries he will not cross, and things he will respect - even if it is the fist of a bigger dude. Women act a lot on their immediate feelings, and thus will do things that either seem illogical (tho have logic once you put them in context) or just wrong. They tolerate a lot more in order to satiate that feeling than a man would to achieve his goal.

>>157255818
>I think the problem here is you just dismissing these things based on "muh reality." You just said "romance has a period of dynamism when you watch two people get together in spite of x," and then you went "Whoops, long-distance relationships don't work, the end."
That's actually two separate people, only the person you replied directly to is me. The boring reductionist one, not the appreciative one.

>The premise matters much less than the execution
For sure. I don't think anyone can deny that shoujo often pours on the melodrama for cheap thrills. I probably ended up overselling it because most of this thread has been mindless fanbase-warring and blanket blacklisting premises and worse.

>>157256378
lol, let me guess, hated the second half of the manga (Usagi Drop)? let me remind you that there was plenty of foreshadowing in the first half, it ok if you hated how it ended though, dont said it came out of nowhere though

>>157256007
As long as I vow to love her more than anything and to allways be loyal, it should be ok to ask the same from her.

I'm just asking her not to let other men put their pee-pee into her vagina.

>>157256384
Hey fucker, I never discounted simple shows as bad. I just said that they don't show the same range of emotions as more mature shows do.
Like it or not more variety is always a good thing for the medium. You can watch your mindless magical girls, I can watch my more emotionally complex shows. They can both be shit, and they can both be good. Being simple doesn't preclude a show from being worthwhile.
However, you can't argue that something like Precure is as emotionally complex as something like Lain, that simply isn't true. WHether either one of these 2 is good is up to each person to decide, but their complexity is just a fact. Even if a children's book is very good, it doesn't mean it's as complex as War and Peace.

God like men just write power fantasy and wish fulfilment
>meanwhile every female author writes the same thing
>falls in love with chad-kun
>bangs him
>them bangs the soccer and baseball team
>cries when he treats her like shit
Really activates the thalmus

>>157256844
>God like men
It took me a full second to realize you were imitating a valley-girl going "God, like, men," and not saying "God-like men."

>>157247213
>>woman writes romance manga
>>full of cuckolding and back biting
>>Why
Go work someplace where most of your colleaguaes are women. You'll see,

>>157249170
>they aren't able to deliver and keep delivering
Seems unfair to do all the leg work. Then again women peak at 25 and lose value after so I guess it's only fair.

>>157247680
>do not represent the average male

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>>157256647
>there are no real consequences. Everything is fine and dandy in the end. That's mindless.
You clearly haven't watched Sailor Moon and the fact that you see Madoka as mature is laughable.

>Like it or not more variety is always a good thing for the medium.
Never said otherwise.

Fuck off.

I like the pure boy and girl romance stuff because it's cuter than the other type. Not necessarily realistic, it's just my preference.

>>157256119
Except not? Shoujo is targetted to TEENAGE GIRLS. It's going to be about what they find realistic and can relate or fantasize.

While those 'male romances' that OP is mentioned is targetted to manchildren who have an idealistic, unrealistic and completely removed of reality view of romance because they were recluses in real life.

Females can barely write something that resembles a relationship where the two leads have some kind of entertaining dynamic to work with.
Even normal harems bother doing that with what little personality the MC gets.

>>157257321
>shoujo is targetted to TEENAGE GIRLS
First off, not all of it is - there are shoujo magazines for teens, for little kids, and even for adults. Second, when the fuck in this reply chain did anyone mention shoujo?

>>157257194
Madoka went to shit after the original series, the movies and everything after that are absolute trash. However the tv series was certainly more mature than sailor moon. Now I'll admit sailor moon is certainly more mature than Precure, saying otherwise would be disingenuous. But even you must admit that the character's in it are generally not very complex. And the end of S1 is literally everything I've talked shit about. Everyone who dies gets revived and live normal lives again, the world is fine, and only Luna and Artemis even remember anything happening.

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>>157252886
>You realize your fantasy is no different from a little girl
That sounds great, actually.
>Except most little girls grow up
And that's exactly why 3D sucks.

>>157251013
what the fuck is this

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>>157252886
Good thing I have good compatibility with little girls then, they are the best.

>>157250154
Fabio is usually on the cover

>>157257730
real books, available at the Amazon Kindle Store™

>>157247213
Men cannot tolerate let alone embrace flawed women. They will begrudgingly accept it in real life, resenting women all the while, but in fantasy they want perfect pure angels with only superficial flaws that don't cause conflict (like clumsiness). You could argue that it's the better way to be in real life, but it's an objectively garbage way to write fiction.

>>157248735
Virgin girls are virgin because they're ugly

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>>157247213
>man writes romance manga
>male and female characters are loyal and loving
>woman writes romance manga
>full of cuckolding and back biting
Why?

Simply put, men are predisposed to purity and loyalty; both things that they are exposed to through other boys as they grow, they are also brought up to view women as the "fairer" sex, angels who do no wrong and are so above them morally, when in fact that is the opposite of the truth.
You write what you know, or at least desire to be true; a lot of mangaka and writers draw from their experience with the opposite sex, which would often be when they were children, notice how 2D girls often act like that girl you knew that clung to you and wanted to get married, without any ulterior motive, that completely changed when you hit your teens, that isn't to say they have no experience with women, it is just that the superiority is apparent, and what sells to the young men is either harem or a simple romance between two characters that are loyal and honor each other, and notice how even in harem loyalty and love are always on the forefront.
On the women side, there's a lot of hedonism as they are the most hedonistic creatures in existence and hedonism runs counter to loyalty, love and honor.
That isn't to say women can't also desire what a man also wants out of a relationship, but that is less frequent and a lot of women only realize this when it's too late and no self respecting man wants them as a wife, not even the most alpha of Chads wants the sluts he sleeps with as anything but a cumdump.

>>157254530
>Science has confirmed that cuckoldry is the intelligent people's fetish
Uh!?

>tfw its okay for women to not be virgins but if a man is a virgin he's a complete loser

>>157258049
>That isn't to say women can't also desire what a man also wants out of a relationship, but that is less frequent and a lot of women only realize this when it's too late and no self respecting man wants them as a wife, not even the most alpha of Chads wants the sluts he sleeps with as anything but a cumdump.
What's the point in going after women if all they want is to use you for betabux while they ride the cock carousel? Why don't good girls exist anymore?

This thread is literally just tumblr vs /pol/-/r9k/ and 80% of it has nothing to do with anime/manga. Why hasn't it been deleted?

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>>157247213
Not true
Greatest romance manga(pic related) ever was written by a woman

>>157250095
Did you know there is a direct correlation to how many sexual partners a woman has had and how likely a marriage is to fail?

Spoilers: The more partners a woman has had, the more likely she is to cheat or leave you.

>>157258280
>not harvesting (You)s while waiting for the sweet release of deletion

>>157258280
Mods are shills

>>157258445
But for which side?

>>157258519
(((Ours)))

>>157258280
Thread? You mean board?

>>157247213

The problem OP, is that you are leaving out the Harem genre, and ignoring all the situations where like 4-19 girls get "cucked" to the one final girl that wins. This also ignores all the isekai romances that have actual harem ends and where every girl just sort of accepts getting cheated on. And there are a lot of those. This is like the bulk of LN/Manga these days.

At the other end of the spectrum, we have obsessive faggot stories about stupidly pure couples who have the worst social interactions and are constantly getting "misunderstood" over trivial stupid nonsense.

Yes, women's manga is pretty bad, but it's not exactly surrounded by some abundance of great love stories. Manga is probably the worst storytelling medium of all time due to the industry, the people in it, and the need to maintain popularity/interest while stretching stories.

There are no good Manga love stories, because Manga itself is a medium that works best for shounen fight stories, not authentic relationship-building.

>>157258749
> like 4-19 girls get "cucked" to the one final girl that wins
I'm pretty sure OP meant actual cheating.

> This is like the bulk of LN/Manga these days.
> Manga is probably the worst storytelling medium of all time
> There are no good Manga love stories, because Manga itself is a medium that works best for shounen fight stories
Read a lot fucking more.

>>157258749
Nothing more to be said

>>157258749
>There are no good Manga love stories
WRONG
Refer to >>157258379 faggot

>>157258749
>Manga itself is a medium that works best for shounen fight stories
Newfag detected
Only Dragon Ball has comprehensible fight scenes
Comics of any kind are pretty horrible for fighting scenes unless you're Akira Toriyama

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>>157252886
And yours is no different than that of a teenager who thinks he has all of life figured out because he's watched a lot of edgy (in both the traditional and internet definition) movies and tv shows that have a degree of focus on shitty people and relationships, like someone who thinks a show like Shameless is the very pinnacle of storytelling because it's about human garbage and therefore deep.
Funny thing, as an adult children can be extremely wonderful and refreshing to be around for reasons wholly opposite of being childish in mind, but the fact that you glorify teenage mentality shows you are still on that level mentally. Here's a little protip for you if you care to listen; if you really think you're a wise grownup who's got it all figured out, that's your first and likely biggest problem.

>>157258749
> There are no good Manga love stories, because Manga itself is a medium that works best for shounen fight stories
I don't know what's worse, all the crossboarders/off-site fags arguing about 3D, or you with your blatant <50-manga powerlevel.

>>157259072
There are a fair bit of manga authors who have sunning battle choreography skills, Toriyama just happens to be the most famous. Read more manga.

I like idealized stuff. I'm in no ways an ideal person, but I don't really wanna see more of myself.

>>157259161
>non-sluts
>implying they exist
The average American female starts riding the cock carousel at age 11. By age 13, only 2% are virgins.

>>157259488
>Source: My ass

>>157259583
There have been multiple studies done on this, but I won't spoonfeed you. Look it up yourself.

>>157259659
>Trust me, I know what I'm talking about! Just take my word for it!

>>157250659
Loyalty and Love are the more important traits. I don't realistically expect anyone I end up with to have been chaste their whole life (because I sure wasn't) as long as they don't have std's or a fucking kid. But when you choose to be with another person, man or woman, you should always be honest and faithful to them.

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>>157259488
what was the last time you left the house brah?

>Nozaki-kun and Oresama No Teacher, two of the cutest and purest romcoms out right now, are written by the same woman

what did op mean by this

>>157259770
So you don't want a virgin because you aren't one, well virgins usually want virgins because they are. You are massively overthinking this.

>>157251249
>using virgin as insult on /a/

holy shit redditor

>>157253938
>X happens so you shouldn't care about increasing your chances of y
Kill yourself, subhuman.

>>157259890
/a/ loves a lot of work by female authors, but you can't deny there isn't a clear pattern.

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Woman are shit at writing though, do you guys not realize it when reading mango and watching animu?

>>157260213
Women are shit at everything, but there are whiteknights in every thread of a manga written by a woman trying to defend her. It's pathetic. Look at the Kimetsu no Yaiba threads. It's a mediocre Jump shonen with shitty art and cardboard characters, but people love it and sperg out whenever someone says anything even slightly bad about it because it's written by a woman. It's the same with The Promised Neverland and Samon-kun wa Summoner. Females in Jump were a mistake.

>>157254931
I'm thinking more this, because I'd be fucking stunned.

>>157260386
>Women are shit at everything
Yep.
I don't have articulated examples like you do, however when I realize I'm watching/reading shit I check the staff and see the female name. You guys should pay attention too.

>>157254931
>>157260547
No, they look offended and angry. I've seen the whole video, they start yelling for other men to "come kick that crippled faggot's ass!"

>>157249559
>best romance manga of all time
>anything other than molester man

You're gonna need to pick one anon.

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>>157259895
Virgins care a lot about virginity

>>157260213

Fullmetal Alchemist.

Also its not they are shit, its just Josei and Shoujo arent exactly written for neckbeards that use a imageboard, I cannot read them either but then again, they arent written for me to enjoy, a male Shoujo mangaka does do the exact same shit as female Shoujo ones because thats what sells,

>>157259161
You're the one who can't handle being unwanted.

>>157249559
Fucking hell. I haven't heard that title in a long time.

>>157260386
Anon, basically every manga in Jump is mediocre crap with people jumping out of the woodwork to defend it.

>>157259300
All of the famous battle manga have terrible incomprehensible choreography where you can't tell what's going on

>>157260799
That doesn't address anything at all.

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>>157260213
A few are alright. For shonen FMA and Magi are two of my favorites, though Magi took a huge nosedive in quality after a while. I guess it's the romance genre where stuff that the OP is talking about is found, and I usually stay away from that stuff. The only exceptions off the top of my head are Akagami no Shirayukihime and Otoyomegatari.

>>157247213
Does Monogatari not count? Sure it's not romantic, but it's certainly about having a guy be the centre of attention.

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Women are fucking degenerates, big surprise!

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>>157260698
>Fullmetal Alchemist.
Mango, right?
Animu has a male director so he probably polished the work into something tolerable.
I would love to argue that the writing is indeed shit, but its been a very long time since I have read it. One peculiar thing I remember is that I was unable to finish it in single reading. I usually devour stuff before I can continue to my life, but FMA required couple breaks from reading. It is not indicative of anything, just my two cents.
I also would like to point out the fact it is one of the few mango that anyone reads, not after reading 100+. Which may be argued for the users incapability of judging its true worth, be it better or worse.

>>157261044
Magi is shit.

>>157247213
Romance manga is cancer.

>>157261002
All you said was no u. But way to out yourself. I thought the roastie thing was a meme. No wonder board quality is in decline.

>>157261138
Your mom is a degenerate. She's a woman after all

>>157261059
harem isn't romance

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So riddle me this, /a/.
If a man and a woman get together in a relationship, theyre both virgins, have sex but it ends not working out and they separate.
According to you both of them should just kill themselves now since theyre tainted and deserve no love anymore?
Is that basically your actual line of thinking?

>>157261224
Yeah, she is.

Is this all cunt posting is capable of? Fucking weak.

>>157261260
Only the woman. Why?

>>157261260
>According to you both of them should just kill themselves now since theyre tainted and deserve no love anymore?
sounds about right to me

>>157261152
>>157260213
Dorohedoro
Houseki no Kuni
7Seeds
Mushishi
Terra e
Cesare
Ran to Haiiro no Sekai
Dungeon Meshi
Bonnouji
etc., etc., etc.

>>157261260
>>157261214
>>157261224
>>157261260
>>157261262
>>157261304
>>157261309
Stop fucking talking about real life, niggers, this is not the board for that.

I read a lot of romance manga and I can safely say that, excluding haremshit, it usually goes as follows

>Men
Cute, comfortable, simple stories of a male and female falling in love. Sometimes even has the couple established at the very beginning of the story. Tension is most likely to come from outside of the relationship, but if it does come from within it's usually a minor mixup that is solved within a few chapters.

Problems I find with male authors is that sometimes the main character is a little too passive and lets the girl do all the work.

>Female
Pretty much the opposite of males. Drama, misunderstandings, and twisted characters. Hilariously enough the female characters usually have little agency until it comes time to fuck over the male characters.

If I see genre: Josei I run the fuck away. The few Josei manga I've read were a fucking nightmare.

This all a broad overview. My favorite romance manga, Love Lab, is written by a woman. I just have an extreme beef with the Josei genre. It scares the fuck out of me with how insane women are.

>>157261224
She got cummed inside, so yeah

>>157261262
>he didn't die in a miscarriage
Sad!

>>157261335
Nice blog you nigger fucking retard

>>157247213
>oh no my love life is nonexistant/my husband hasn't touched me in the last decade
>here let me write my exciting fantasy romance with a lot of drama and everyone giving attention to the boring girl
It's the boring women who write the most twisted shit.

>>157261335
>Mushishi
Shit

>>157261450
Trash

>>157261465
Not so good.

>>157261345
It's because most shojo/josei is made for fucked up women

Normal women don't read comics

>>157261499
DELET THIS

>>157252863
>>157253098
>>157253346
>>157254418
Put those slaves to work. I can already smell the money.

>>157261335
That's all shit though. I guess 7seeds was okay. Should've just stuck to nozaki as your example, faggot.

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This is the best romance manga. This is objective fact. It's also very realistic, even mundane. It still manages to be interesting even though there is zero drama, just pure love.

>>157261561
2deep4me

>>157261359
Yeah, the dumb bitch couldn't do that right either. Why are women so retarded?

>>157261587
I once gave 7seeds a try and it was terrible.

tbf guys write some really sick shit too

what was that one manga with that edgelord mc who time travels back to when he was a kid and he kills his crush and some other girl or something?

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This the best Romance manga

>>157261634
Umareru Kachi no Nakatta Jibun ga Anna no Tame ni Dekiru Ikutsuka no Koto. I will never forget that retarded fucking title.

Can't we all get along? Does it always have to be women this vs men than.

Women mostly write shoujo and Josei

Shoujo is the most boring shit ever. It's haremshit for girls. One boring girl, three guys that suddenly take interest in her. The problem is that while only a portion of Seinen is haremshit, it seems that the vast majority of shoujo follows the previously mentioned formula.

Josei is the exact opposite. It's not boring, but it's instead so twisted and lacking in empathy that it isn't afraid to have its 'innocent' female lead completely fuck over everyone else. All the while the writer will constantly shove it into your face that what the female is doing is 'hard, but right'. It's disgusting.

>>157261608
Wrong
This is >>157258379

Also in general if it isn't childhood romance it isn't romance
Adult love is a lie...let me tell you as someone who has fallen in love when he was 6 years old and still loves the same girl to this day...you cannot fall in love as an adult that is a bunch of bullshit which is why all adult "love stories" are trailer trash-tier Soap Opera bullshit

>>157261608
I will back this up. This manga is fucking perfect. The greatest counterpoint to everyone in this thread screeching about how you "have to have drama and bad stuff to make the story interesting".

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>>157261786

>>157261254
What of Love Hina?

>>157261214
I didn't deny being a "roastie" because I knew youd never believe it. But you say you thought it was a meme, so why would you say it? It seems like you are just spewing random incoherent thoughts and anger with no regard to whether they make sense or not. Also by what metric do you consider yourself a quality poster?

>>157261853
Harem
Isn't
Romance

>>157259895
It's not that I don't want one, senpai. I just don't care either way.

>>157261786
>3D
>ever

>>157261853
Trash.

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>read josei
>everyone is always cheating
>everyone is always fucked up
>the main female is always lusting after her father (figure)

Are women really just a meme?

>>157261978
The shit you read/watch is inspired by reality like it or not.

>>157262036
What does that have to do with being in love with some 3D girl since you were six?

>>157261260
are you retarded ?

>>157262004
You grew up in a generation of women that worshiped 50 Shades of Gray and Twilight.

What do you think?

The moment society started telling women to "BE FREE, EXPRESS YOURSELVES, FIGHT DA MAN" is when it all went downhill.

>>157262004
Read better josei, I guess?

>>157262107
hetero women were a mistake

>>157262133
It's virtually all of them.
Give me one good josei where the cast is not full of oh so damaged people with loose sexual morals.

>>157262146
there are not such thing as a homo women.

>>157262004
>Are women really just a meme?
Everything is just a meme. The world was supposed to end in 2012 but didn't due to a glitch. Since then, reality has been a series of cobbled together events ruled by memetic magic and the power of collective belief. Fiction is reality, reality is fiction, memes are the force behind the universe. All of it is unraveling before our very eyes.

>>157262066
It has all to do with it since I was using it as an example of "childhood love"

Childhood Love is the only real kind of romantic love there is
When we become adults we all become jaded garbage people hence why love doesn't exist at that point and hence why all "realistic adult romance stories" are Mexican Soap Opera bullshit

>>157262206
Chihayafuru

>>157262243
>It has all to do with it since I was using it as an example of "childhood love"
I think you're missing something here, but I was very clear so I don't get what it could be. 3D is a mistake, you are stupid for loving it. Full stop.

>>157262273
That's such an atypical josei series it might as well be the exception that proves the rule.

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This thread is very p/a/thetic to he honest.
Purityfags should be gassed, but knowing theyll live their entire lives as bitter incels is punishment enough.

>>157261893
>she thinks everyone who replied to her is one person
Jesus, you're a dumb bitch. Also, by the metric of not having shit taste like you.

>>157262354
Short lives. They all kill themselves eventually when their parents kick them out.

>>157262354
What if you like purity stuff but you aren't bitter? I accept the world, but I enjoy stuff that isn't realistic.

>>157262354
>purityfag
>Incel
Go back to plebbit, you filthy faggot.

>>157262316
>name me a single series
>well you did so, but that just proves my point
Princess Jellyfish
Shirokuma Cafe
Sakamichi no Apollon (didn't really like it, actually, but it fits your criteria)
Uta Koi
Nodame Cantabile
Gokusen
Pet Shop of Horrors
I'm listing mainstream things with anime here, too. It's not hard at all to find stuff that doesn't fit the bizarre stereotype so many people seem to have.

>>157262499
>but you aren't bitter
Why are you here?

>>157262312
Without "3D" you wouldn't be reading/watching these manga/anime

I mean face it...there was probably a time in life when you loved 3D before people started growing up and became shitty and that's why you read manga in the first place

>>157261658
>Slut fmc
No thanks

>>157262550
>It's not hard at all to find stuff that doesn't fit the bizarre stereotype so many people seem to have.
But all of those do fit the stereotype, with the exception of Shirokuma Cafe, which is seinen.

>>157262560
I like reading discussion about things I like. Sure these boards can be awful at times, but I generally tune out the worst, or at least don't take it too seriously.

>>157262354
I have no problem with 'unpure' romance. Hell one of my favorite ongoing romance right now is between a young boy and a widower.

I just don't enjoy reading material where the characters are backstabbing scum, especially when the material expects me to sympathize with said scum.

>>157262599
> all of those do fit the stereotype
What fucking loose sexual morals does Nodame have?
> Shirokuma Cafe, which is seinen
What? No, it's not. It was entirely published in Flowers, a josei magazine.

>>157262575
The realm of forms exists beyond physical reality and has always existed, pleb. Learn to Plato.

>>157262639
>young boy and a widower.
Surely you mean "widow"

>>157262691
No it hasn't
Humans existed for thousands of years before the first cave paintings

>>157262533
Smelly incel! Sad!

>>157262209
yep, all women love dick. might hate men, but can't hate the dick.

>>157252886
Stop trying to argue with autists. They will mate with their virgin bodypillows - at least in fictive works the characters will respond

Your genetic legacy ends with you. Never forget.

>>157252886
Fuck you, I'll find my perfect prince one day.

You're all idiots honestly.

>>157263825
You are an idiot.