>have a time skip while the MC goes away to train >he comes

>>157130437
>Jiraya
That's your problem.

Kishi's a hack who couldn't do anything right. Holy fuck do I regret ever liking the series. That first arc tricked me and was too good for the series.

Timeskips are purely an excuse to change the character designs.

>>157131152
...and even they got worse, sasuga kishi

>>157131377
Nothing is worse than the first Naruto design.

The only good part of Naruto was the first arc, the author had no idea what to write afterwards.

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>>157130437
>spend 2 years training with one of the best ninja in the world
>only learn how to do a bigger rasengan

>>157130437
>2 years of training
>learns literally nothing

>a couple of days of training with Kakashi and Asuma
>learns one of the most powerful jutsus ever

>>157130437
>Jiraiya trained naruto in TS
>naruto barely improved

>tsunade trained Sakura
>improved in medical ninjutsu at least but other than that shes still shit

>orochimaru who couldn't even use his arms trained sasuke
>sasuke now Kakashi level

Orochimaru confirmed best sensei?

>>157131771
>Naruto kid is shit
>Sasuke and Sakura kid is shit
>Orochimaru kid can use multiple jutsus, sage mode and its fucking Luffy
also best dad/mom

>>157131579
but but but muh kagebunshin

>>157130437
he was probably training more in the basics and they were spending their time trying to get him to master as much tails as the nine tails as possible, while that's no excuse, to compare to it to Sasuke is not fair since the Sharingan is like a fucking fast forward button for training. and im guessing its not important to leanr more Jutsu if you had already had some Hokage level Jutsu under your belt that still has exploitability, of course, im more upset he didn't learn to do fucking shadow clone shuriken or some shit looks like basic after learning the SCJ. and dont get me even started on not learning sage jutsu.

>>157130437
That's a bit unfair. He didn't really learn any new techniques but he got a lot less stupid. Learned how to use his clones better instead of just spamming them. Just got generally better at all the little stuff.

Kakashi helped him create a super powerful technique, but he was only able to actually hit anyone with it because of his time with Jiraya.

>>157130437
The only difference between pre and post time skip is that Naruto has even less control over the Kyuubi after timeskip.

>>157130437
Fuck off Narutards

>>157131579
>a couple days of training with some old frogs
>he's Pain level

>>157131152
Dude fucking orange tracksuit with fluorescent yellow hair and light blue eyes plus navy blue headband and sandals.

>>157130437
I would of loved to see Naruto develop a fighting style that revolved around him using wind style in conjunction with sage mode rather than all that tailed beast garbage.

>>157131377
he changed then to be easier to draw,

>>157132375
>Sharingan is like a fucking fast forward button for training
The shadow clones are even better for that

>>157130437
>he comes back sucking pretty much the same as before
how

>>157130437

He got better at the basics

Better at control and tactics

Stuff like that

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naruto's ramen addiction though

>character grows older
>still has annoying kid voice

Fuck this gay shit, even the dub still uses his shitty brat voice in Shippuden

>>157135828
I don't know about the dub, but the jap voice at least tries to sound deeper. You don't get the impression that his balls never dropped like with Goku.

>>157132572
Nice meme

>>157134064
>The shadow clones are even better for that
no its not while the shadow clones can be used to ff through a bit of training they still need to be a ton of work which is the whole point of why naruto needed more shadow clones or else it could have taken him years but even with the training it still took him either week or days to just get the Jutsu and even then the jutsu was imperfect but in sasukes case he masted someones speed/fighting style AND the chidori which took rock lee his whole life to get to a point, and the sharigan allows them to instantl get a jutsu as shown when Sasuke summoned a hawk that tobi was surprised by.. so no the shadow clone is not better, not by a long shot. and its only good because of the amount naruto can summon.

>>157135692
that looks delicious.

First of all it is because naruto is weak.

Second of all jiraiya taught him besides the basics to probably control the kyuubi that was slowly more and more getting released.

Has Naruto ever been able to use resengan without needing a shadow clone?

>>157137457
hes done it at least 3 times himself and several times in kyubi cloak mode

Problem is power's consistency like in every manga ever.

Same thing with Ichigo in bleach and etc

>>157131771
>improved in medical ninjutsu at least but other than that shes still shit
Sakura was on par with Tsunade when it came to medical knowledge, this was shown when she managed to cure Kankuro of Sasori's poison. Sakura was so efficient with her chakra that she was able to operate normally despite her chakra reserves technically being smaller than her pre-timeskip self due to putting most of it towards what eventually becomes the Strength of a Hundred Seal.

>>157137279
The technique Sasuke copied from Lee was very early on in the manga, they never say that the sharingan can copy raw strength or speed. Kishimoto probably hadn't figured out its limitations just yet during that time.

Do we ever see Lee do that ever again anyway? How was he able to control the bandages?

>>157137457
Yeah, in his final battle with Sasuke

>>157137279
>>157137845
Sasuke just trained to get as fast as Lee, and achieved it quickly because of his talent. They never said he used the sharingan to "copy the speed", that's fucking retarded.

Is Kakashi iruka level without hiss hackeye? Do you think boruto or orochimarus kid can blow him the fuck away?

>>157137974
>train to get super speed in a month the same as a guy that took him months
>because of talent
>not because of Sharingan he was able to copy rock lee taijutsu to get that speed.

never said it wasnt retarded, jsut going by the information given in the show in that case why didnt people like neji get that speed? nejis a genius too/

>>157138289
>>157137974
even more proof.
https://youtu.be/lUuOvVzZtVk?t=574

>>157138289
>>157138330
>Rock Lee's main advantage and his only crutch is his superior speed
>lol Sasuke matches him in speed after one month of training

hmmmm

>>157130437
Naruto is retarded. Even after he became Hokage he still spams the same jutsus he did as a fucking 12 year old, instead of learning other shit.

What happened to the "you must know how to do at least 1000 jutsus to be hokage" from the beginning of the series?

>>157138033
Kakashi was a jonin by the time he was Boruto's age.

>>157138415
yeah the Sharingan was pretty much whatever it wanted to be even early on in the series.
>>157138579
that was only Orochimaru and sarutobi. and why would that be important? what thes point of learning like 5 clone jutsu type when just one is good enough and we were never goign to see 1000 jutsu from one person

>>157138289
>not because of Sharingan he was able to copy rock lee taijutsu to get that speed
You know that taijutsu just means his physical fighting style? How does learning someone's moves make you as fast as him?

>never said it wasnt retarded, jsut going by the information given in the show in that case why didnt people like neji get that speed? nejis a genius too
Are you seriously telling that just beause two different people are praised as "talented" in a field as wide as being a superpowered ninja they should be able of achieving the same physical feats? And anyway, Neji should at least have comparable speed, considering he only fights hand to hand and Lee never beat him.

>train to get super speed in a month the same as a guy that took him months
Yes, this does make more sense than an eye power known for copying techniques suddenly letting you acquire someone's physical stats.

>>157137312
It looks bland is what it does.

>>157138677
did you even watch the video?
>Yes, this does make more sense than an eye power known for copying techniques suddenly letting you acquire someone's physical stats.
not really cause then a lot more people should have been able to have more speed. even the jonin werent fast or portayed as fast.

>>157138289
>>157138330
I'm not watching this shit again, the dub even less so. All they said was

>Sasuke copied Lee's style
>Sasuke trained to be as fast as Lee
None of which implies that the Sharingan lets him "copy speed". Making that conclusion just requires even more wild assumptions.

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>>157131579
>Sasuke learns snake summoning
>Sasuke learns how to use a sword
>Sasuke learns how to perfectly use the curse mark
>Sasuke learns Karin
>Sasuke learns genjutsu
>Sasuke learns a bunch of other lightning abilties
>Sasuke gets blanket buff to all of his stats

>Naruto learns how to make his rasengan slightly bigger (but it costs a lot of chakara so he shouldn't do it)

Kishi is a massive faggot

>>157138289
>why didnt people like neji get that speed?
Because there esdn'y s need at the time? Sasuke needed the speed because he was learning an a loud, highly visible, assassination technique
>nejis a genius too/
Which is how he taught himself Eight Trigrams Sixty-Four Palms and became a jonin while everyone else were still chunins.

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>>157138762
Look at this. Lee goes
>"Sasuke, you're awesome. That speed took me years but you did it in only a month."
Would he really be saying that if that was just Sharingan hax? Not to mention that it wouldn't make sense for it to take a month.

>>157138939
>Sasuke learns snake summoning
Literally just sign a blood contract
>Sasuke learns how to use a sword
Literally just watch someone with sharingan
>Sasuke learns how to perfectly use the curse mark
Literally just take some pills
>Sasuke learns Karin
Literally just be Sasuke
>Sasuke learns genjutsu
Literally just use Genjutsu: Sharingan
>Sasuke learns a bunch of other lightning abilties
Literally got his shit kicked in going off of Naruto's and Sakura's training
>Sasuke gets blanket buff to all of his stats
Literally drugs

>>157138939
>Naruto learns how to summon frogs
>Naruto learns how to become a frogman sennin
>Naruto has the blood of chakragoddess
>Naruto opens the nine tails
>Naruto BEFRIENDS the fucking untamable ninetales.

There is bullshit left and right in Naruto. See the big picture

>>157139188
Yeah, but the part that we are omplaining about is that Naruto goes away for years and has almost no progress, then later gets all those bullshit powerups in quick succession. It should have been better spread out.

>>157138631
To be honest being jonin level mean't nothing after the power levels started going up exponentially and Kakashi could not do a single thing as soon as he got the sharingan stolen.

Not saying he's Iruka level but seeing how these new kids can use sage mode or have/will have hack eyes early on, my guess is that he'll be weaker than them, if he isn't already.

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Did Naruto's super saiyan shit made Sage Mode irrelevant? I dropped the series before that, but it looks fucking retarded.

>>157132375
>Master the nine tails

Eat a dick faggot.

Pre-time skip you had to do some major shit to get him to go nine tails.

Post-time skip Orochimaru insulted Sasuke once and he went straight to 3 tails then 4 tails and almost killed Sakura. The fuck did he get worse at controlling the nine tails.
>>157132466
yup

Jaraiya a shit at training. Why the fuck didn't he let the toads train Naruto or just let Asuma or Kakashi or literally ANYONE else train Naruto?

>>157139405
He actually combines the two at some point.

>>157139405
thats 9 tails mode, he uses it together with sage mode later on.
I wish I could have seen /a/ response to this when it first came out

>>157139496
That's 9 tails with indra or whatever mode. He uses all 3.

>>157139575
no that's just 9 tails mode, his father isn't the reincarnate of Ashura and he has the same mode.

>>157130437
Load of shitposting in this thread

He literally got better at doing everything he was doing before. Including Rasengan.

He also learned to manifest more tails

>>157139277
WELL I GUESS YOUR RIGHT YOU KNOWITALL
Anyway, everything was actually pretty shitty in the end. We shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking Naruto was actually good.

>>157131086
the first arc was fucking phenomenal, I stopped watching after a few episodes into Shippuden.

>>157130437
wasn't one of the main reasons he left was to keep the Akatsuki away from the village and make it harder for them to find him? He probably moved around a lot, so dedicated training using massive amounts of chakra like with Kakashi and Co probably would've just alerted the Akatsuki to their position.

>>157137669
What does that shit have to do with making up a couple of techniques when all you can do is order an extra large rasengan?

>>157139406
I said master as much tails of the nine tails as he can he could only get like 2 before going berserk
>>157139153
and the same page he says keeping up the speed uses a lot of stamina. now, if wasn't Sharingan hax the hsi stamina should have risen with his speed.
>>157138956
Sasuke needed the speed because he was learning an a loud, highly visible, assassination technique
so a person who's entire arsenal is close combat doesn't need it?
>>157138823
they said he copied his taijutsu. and his taijutsu involves his speed. face it, it was because of the sharigan

>>157139764
>We shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking Naruto was actually good.
well I did. I still think its good

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Reminder that Jiraya didn't take Naruto to train, but to show him how it is to have a family.

>>157140112
I dont know about you but I like big blue balls.

>>157140265
man we missed out on a chance to have a flashback arc of naruto on his journey with jiraiya when he find out he died to pain.

>>157131420
It's actually confirmed that he had, but they wouldn't let him as it would be "too slow". He wanted to make more missions and introduce teams from other villages one by one.

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Did he overreact?

>>157140349
> He wanted to make more missions and introduce teams from other villages one by one
which still becomes irrelevant after the chunin exams

>>157140207
>so a person who's entire arsenal is close combat doesn't need it?
Neji is more of a defensive fighter if anything. As a Hyuuga he's able to expel chakra from all 361 chakra points instead of the ones in the hands and feet like 99.9% of shinobi. While I'm sure he got faster as he got older, it wasn't really something he needed to focus on at the time.

>>157140420
Chuunin exam wasn't even his idea. In one interview he stated that editor literally told him to do a tournament arc (which was pretty great by the way).

>>157140480
So his editor ruined naruto good to know.

>>157140480
ugh the editors again. them and tournament arc.

>>157140628
>>157140631
>tfw editor-kun told him to write Sasuke

>>157130437
All Jiraya cared about was alcohol and prostitutes. Probably left Naruto to train himself with vague instructions of what to do.

>>157140726
> prostitutes.
anon, there are kids. until explicitly said they were entertainers.

>>157131579
>Sage of the Six Couches becomes his therapist
>becomes god and Madara level

>>157140671
He probably did because it seemed like he was going to die to show the horrors of being a ninja till he dialed it back just like he did with kaikashi.

>>157140279
Pause nigga that's gay. Was Skeeter your favorite character? Honk Honk

>>157140820
>I have to cherish my life so i can get the chance for revenge
>but if you're weak you die before your journey even begins
honestly kindve glad he did that shit would have been even more depressing than school days for me. I just hate how they had literally no change in their relationship even though he sacrifices his life for him. talk about wasted devlopment

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>>157140265
Most of the bonds Kishi wanks feel so weak but Jiraiya's death still hits hard.

>>157140401
During the Kakashi gaiden he was one of the most likable characters until it's revealed he's the big bad.

He was a decent boy who apparently had a normal family and turned into the biggest fucking edgelord in the entire manga because one girl that was nice to him died to save the village. Fuck Obito.

>>157140996
maybe because he was mostly a comedic character, I dont usually think they die. they're there to lighten the mood. I guess once he went the rest of the story was shit hitting the fan.

>>157141067
It's the same reason Sirus Black's death was so tragic. Orphan meets godfather and thinks they'll finally get to have a family until they unexpectedly die and they're back to being all alone.

>>157140996
>Jiraiya couldn't be at Naruto's wedding
Feels bad man

>>157141161
>It's the same reason Sirus Black's death was so tragic.
Sirius was a faggot and died like a bitch because of his own mistakes and hubris.

Jiraiya at least went down like a champ and it's mentioned that he would have BTFO Pain had he known how the Six Paths worked.

>>157141161
to be fair that's not quite the same thing, naruto had +2years developing a relationship with Jiraiya and has felt like a father/grandfather to him.
siruis black just met orphan, not saying one has more than the other but more like different flow of despair.
its like getting your favorite ice cream and then someone just slaps it out your hand vs having a taste the ice cream and then someone slaps it out your hand.

>>157141263
>it's mentioned that he would have BTFO Pain had he known how the Six Paths worked.
Where is that mentioned?

>>157141391
when he took out the first 2 or 3.

>>157141520
Was it actually stated by someone? Or just a theory? Because I honestly believe he couldn't fight against all six of them at the same time.

>>157139405
The war should have ended the exact moment Minato and the others arrived. Warp over to Obito kill him then take on Madara.
Minato kyubi mode should have been broken as fuck since he was already the fastest.
The other hokage should have been spamming high level shit with unlimited shakra.

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>>157141391
Nagato himself says it.

>>157130437
Fuck off Narutards. You already have a containment thread

>>157140996
But just a reminder that Naruto or anyone else didn't even remember Jiraiya in the last 90 chapters of the manga. That was one of the worst things Kishimoto ever did.

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I think my son has autism.

>>157141816
Didn't Kishi say the only reason he never edo tensei'd Jiraiya was because he had no idea how to make Naruto react?

>>157141883
What a stupid excuse, it's not like Naruto has complex characterization, just make him hyperventilate or some shit.

>>157142169
Both Iruka and Jiraiya are probably is top 2 most loved people so I guess it would have been too overwhelming for him. Poor Minato though. Didn't even get to have arms to hug his son.

>>157141883
didint kabuto say he couldnt because they needed some part of the persons body or dna but they couldnt find jiraiyas body because he was at the bottom of that ocean?

>>157142456
That's probably the manga reason but Kishi also said he didn't know how to write it. Typical Kishi.

>>157141676
0/10 newfag memes

>>157130437

>wastes a few years training with minimal results
>gets told of a more efficient technique to learn shit in days

Why was Jiraiya a bad sensei compared to Kakashi and why did Kakashi waste his time on the wrong student?

>>157130437
I was hoping he'd learn more jutsus considering his massive chakra reserves, but he's still just kagebunshin and rasengan spamming. granted, Naruto gets the job done with just those. even beat Kakuzu, a guy who fought the first and has tons of experience, with a mere kagebunshin feint.

>>157142885
well its naruto but its sitll shonen if you have a good technique, exploit the shit out of it.

>>157142851
Probably something to do with everytime Naruto exerted himself it made the Kyuubi come out and try to kill everyone. Until Yamato was introduced to keep it in check Naruto couldn't do the clone hack.

>>157142702
Fuck off back to >>>/reddit/, Narutard

>>157143098
Ah, almost forgot that meme. Next you'll tell me to lurk for 2 years before posting, right?

>>157131015
Fuck of bro. Jiraiya is still top 10 strongest in Naruto. Get fucked.

>>157143425
Maybe before the War arc. He's probably top 20 now.

>>157143568
His sage mode could wipe the floor with the Kages like Madara did. Even without it he's a beast, why else do you think Kishi conveniently wrote him out of being Edo Tensei'd? He would've ended the war in a single day, same with Deidara.

>>157143627
>His sage mode could wipe the floor with the Kages like Madara did
Not really.

> Even without it he's a beast
Compared to pre-war shenanigans, sure.

>He would've ended the war in a single day, same with Deidara.
>Deidara
Now you're baiting.

>>157143691
Swamp of the Underworld nigga.

Are you implying an Edo Tensei Deidara wouldn't spam C4 all day long?

>>157130437
But his rasengan got bigger, and he learned how to dispell genjutsu which was rarely used by anyone because it was overpowered and didn't interact with other people's abilities or the environment in any interesting way, thus Kishi had no idea how to write genjutsu into the conflicts.

>>157137457

Yes. The Kyuubi master form where the aura itself weaves a baby Rasengan for him on his index finger.

That power up was written too strong, and you can tell Kishimoto eventually scaled it down a good amount.

>>157143425
Maybe before he retconned the stronger than Itachi and Kisame combined statement.

>>157139496

I actually shooped a fake chapter preview for it, and it ended up being true anyways later on.

>>157139405
He uses them both at the same time for no noticeable increase in power. The moment that super saiyan form was introduced is the EXACT moment that Naruto shifted into high-gear pure powerlevel wanking bullshit.
Even up through the Five Kage Summit arc and the early bit of the War it stayed moderately grounded, but with this, everyone relevant was only able to remain so because they could move faster and hit harder than everything below them, and technique/strategy/skill had no place in the fights.

>>157131579
>with wind chakra infused into my Rasengan in a shuriken shape, the chakra will cut you to pieces at a molecular level!
Who thought that would ever be okay? And obviously he was going to be able to throw it later.

>>157143386
Just deal with the fact you'll never be accepted on /a/, Narutard.

>>157144132
Most of /a/ already got over the hate for Naruto, you're the only one who keeps shitposting in this thread, sad.

>>157144240
rule number 1, you colossal moron, don't feed the trolls.

>>157139496
>I wish I could have seen /a/ response to this when it first came out

You couldn't because Naruto was always banned from /a/, you fucking piece of shit, dumb newfag

>>157131420
Ninja War Arcs were good too. Young Kakashi should've been the protagonist of Naruto.

>>157130437
he learned the OO-DAMA RASENGAN

>>157143425
best player=/=good coach

I swear Naruto is the most boring character in the series. He and his only 3 fucking jutsu and infinite chakra and reincarnation of a demi god make him insufferable to watch.

Every time he butted in one of the many fights that were actually entertaining (Kakashi/Shika vs the two Akatsuki, Pain arc, Guy/Kakashi/Minato vs Madara), he ruined them with his uninspired 3 combo strategy of shadow clones up its ass, rasengan and special transformation

>Neji was right about fate and hard work will never overcome talent.
>Naruto tells his son he should rely on his own natural talent when he had good genes + kyuubi hacks.

Why was Naruto a hypocrite and a hack?

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Reminder that this nigga can solo Orochimaru with first and second hokage while under unfavorable conditions.

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>>157145453
Reminder that this nigga correctly predicted everything that would happen in the series. Literally everything.

>>157145453
most of the power levels of part 1 were changed. It was said that opening the 8 gates would make someone as strong as a hokage, but Gai was pretty much the strongest being on earth for a short amount of time, much stronger than all kages combined. Also considering neither the first or second used their best abilities in that fight we can assume they weren't on peak performance.

>>157145575
no, opening the 8 gates would make a civilian as strong as a kage. Gai, who was a literal taijutsu master and had been training in using the gates since he was very young, would be a shit ton stronger than that. The Shodaime and Nidaimes' techniques are also very powerful, but are often too destructive to use to cover their comrades (Nidaime) and being in an active war with allies around him (Shodaime).

>>157145640
>opening the 8 gates would make a civilian as strong as a kage
I don't remember they ever specifying that.

>>157145575
When you buff some characters it still makes the others strong by comparison. Despite the first and second later being able to pull of ridiculous feats, they still lost to the third.

Despite Itachi being retardedly strong, he and Kisame didn't want to fuck with Jiraiya

>>157145660
eh, the point being is that it would make someone weak, a civilian, a genin, someone very much un-kage like, comparable to a kage.

>>157145707
I remember Itachi not wanting to fight Jiraya since they would waste a lot of time and alert pretty much the entire village.

>>157145767
The village was already alerted. That's why every known (at the time) Jounin was there except for the interrogation guy.

Let's be honest here. Jiraiya and Naruto didn't train, they just fucked a lot.

Explains everything.

>>157145798
what are you talking about? Jiraiya and Naruto met up with Itachi and Kisame at Tanzaku Gai (I think that's the town) on their hunt for Tsunade. All four of them left the Hidden Leaf already.

>>157145798
No one was there yet, just Guy.

I have a feeling that we'll hit the same old beats in Boruto. Lee will open the 8 gates and be magically saved from imminent death, Kakashi will be the new Jiraya and will most likely die a hero's death, the three main kids will train with different teachers before a timeskip. That Kawaki guy will probably be Burrito's friend for a while and then "die" only to come back in part to to seek vengeance because he couldn't get his dick wet.