Why was Guts so edgy in the first arc? He never really acts anything

>>156702913
It's implied he acts like an ass so people won't hang around him and get killed by demons.

>>156702913
Read Lost Children and Golden Age again.

Guts enjoys killing demons because he's really angry, what's not to understand? If people stick around him they get killed and it's their fault because he warns them

>>156702913
>He never really acts anything remotely like that again.
He was pretty edgy towards Jill.

>>156704155
Not really. Told her to fuck off and that her friend became a monster. He was actually pretty soft in LC.

>>156703897
Black Swordsman: Guts tells a child to commit suicide. Also he's partially responsible for the death of a loli and an old man, and he doesn't give a shit.
Golden Age: Guts accidentally kills a boy, and he's disgusted by what was done.
Lost Children: Protects a loli from demons and "kills" that small child spirit.

He is way edgier in Black Swordsman.

>>156702913

Why did Berserk transform into a dark edgy shonen with "must train hard, naruto style" after Golden Age ?
The first 13 volumes are amazingly well written, good character psychology, good pace, excellent dark fantasy/medieval atmosphere...It went downhill after volume 20+.

Also I'm really pissed about Miura not finishing this before leaving this planet. It's either he finishes it too quickly without proper developpement and great epic and tragic finale or we will never see the end.


sigh...

>>156704272
It gets shonen-y after the trolls.

>>156704095
>If people stick around him they get killed and it's their fault because he warns them
Imagine that Guts' current party is killed by demons. Do you actually think that Guts would say "nah it was their fault for joining me"? He wouldn't, but BS Guts would. You only proved OP's point.

>>156702913
It's called establishing character. Miura didn't have the entire story planned out so Guts' personality changed a bit after the story caught back up to the present.

>>156702913
Yes he was, read the Lost Children again.
Jill begs him to not get involved and he still recks Rosine with no remorse.

Also, at the start of Conviction where he kidnaps Farnese while she was undressed.

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>>156704204
>Protects a loli from demons

What did he mean by this?

As much as he protected her he came real close to killing her as well

>>156704367
What's edgy about killing an apostle?

>>156704204

He also took a nice hot shower in abortions in Lost Children. The end of Black Swordsman also shows that part of that tough exterior is only a front. He did care.

>>156702913
Still in its early stages, that's why. The first few chapters just don't feel canon to me as awesome as they are since Guts goes from an asshole to a relatively chill guy unless otherwise provoked. His personality does a complete 180, it wasn't eased into it.

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>>156704189
>>156704204
It's remotely edgy
I'm not saying there's any topping his edginess in the black swords man arc

>>156704367
>Jill begs him to not get involved and he still recks Rosine with no remorse.
Yeah, better let that fucking slaughter machine go around killing, raping and transforming hundreds of children/adults to please that one special 10 year old kid.

If anything, Guts did something wrong by not finishing her when the knights came in, but thankfully he wounded her enough so she'd be dead anyway.

>>156704350

That's not even an applicable comparison. Current Guts has grown from BS Guts. It's only natural he has a different reaction. Not to mention his current RPG squad is a bit different than some random he encounters on the road.

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>>156704489
Not even remotely. He just knew what was going on and got the kid out of the way.

>>156704354

This is the real answer. BS was just a hook.

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Hmmmm

Did the series ever explain what each individual god hand represents?

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>>156704665
Guts is on FUCKING FIRE during this arc

It was in the 2 year span of Guts trying to get over the events of The Eclipse so it seems pretty justified to me.

>>156704204
after collete and the old man dies and puck tries to comfort him after, guts laughs because he is convincing himself that weaklings just die off

>>156704702

No, and also I'd love to see their past human life, like void and slan.

>>156704779
Well, he's making sense of the situation. When you spend day and night knee deep in bodies, you can't look too much into a single death.

Still a dick move of him to not tell them to fuck off before it happened.

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Berserker armour was a mistake, I assumed he would lose it after an arc because he realizes its not worth it or some such but nope.

He needs to start over from after conviction arc

>>156704815

I feel like that is too pragmatic for the mental state of Guts at the time.

>>156704784
Well Griffith is called the blessed king of longing, so maybe they represent the human psyche? I'd love to know what Voids deal is because he looks overpowered as fuck.

>>156702913
it was at the very begining of the journy. guts had no idea how to save caska or himself for that matter or a way to kill grifith. he was depressed as fuck and being edgy was one of the ways he handled it.

>>156704861
Yeah, he probably believed his darwinian idea on some level at the time. I don't think he totally agreed with it but that's clearly one of the values he relied on to keep going.

>>156704350
His entire fucking character arc has been him learning to connect with and care about other people

He literally sat down and explained it in the lastest chapter

>>156702913
Depression is a thing Anon. It really makes you not give a fuck about anything, even more so about yourself.

The reason why he's slightly less edgy, cynical and pessimistic is due to pals. The fairy and the kid really helped him, even if he doesn't realize it himself.

>>156704970
No, Miura was simply following the proto-type where Guts had an eyepatch and a sour look on his face. Despite all the shit he goes through that's just not his personality, he's not an asshole to people unless he's in danger and prefers to keep a low profile. That's why the "official" 1st chapter starts with young Guts when he meets Griffith, and it shows in the art too as it's in a much higher quality.

>>156702913
>Why was Guts so edgy in the first arc?

I believe the author intended Berserk to be something different at that moment.

Generally, he focused a lot on edge and gore in the first arcs.

On which arc does the anime end at? I'm considering watching it since i've read the manga so many times but i'm afraid of it seeing get ruined

>>156705185

Which anime would be the question.

I'm only familiar with the original TV anime which has one episode of Black Swordsman but otherwise is Golden Age and covers most of the Eclipse, skipping on Skull Knight and their escape.

>>156702913
If you want a really logical answer it's because the mangaka obviously didn't know where he was going with berserk, guts character wasn't set in stone back then.

Now that it's all said and done you can still play it as "yeah he's just acting like a dick to push people away from him"

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>>156702913

To me the black swordsmen arc was when he didn't have Puck so he was always alone and going a bit crazy from his depression. Being cruel and acting aloof is a pretty common coping mechanism when you're deeply sad/depressed. "The hound" only shows itself to guts when he is left alone with his thoughts.

lost children and conviction is AFTER he has been traveling around with puck and he becomes less "edgy" the more people he starts traveling around with. Its like how he was BEFORE griffith in golden age arc and how he was when he became the commander of the raiders.

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Why is he so smug?

>>156705266
I don't disagree with that but i think maruta played it into the story.

>>156702913
because Miura was still experimenting with the work and Guts still wasn't fully formed as a character yet.

He was an unironic escapist fantasy edgelord in the early chapters.

>>156705372
Testosterone and bloodlust

>>156705387
Well yeah i also think theres a dash of truth in that, he probably kept going and going thiking about how weird it was for guts to be an edgy asshole in BS and tried to set things right, maybe.

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What's her endgame?

Why is Miura letting her tag along?

>>156705403
>He was an unironic escapist fantasy edgelord
No he wasn't.

His entire character was subverted at the the end of TBS arc when he shed tears after leaving Theresia.
Sure he acted edgy, but it was mostly a guise to shield his emotional fragility.

>>156705480
You know there were two years between the beginning and end of the Black Swordsman arc, right? That was plenty of time for Miura to further develop and change the character from his original rough ideas. Miura has admitted the story was made up on the fly and when he started it he hadn't conceived of Casca yet nor what exactly went down between Guts and Griffith.

Just because you read the black swordsman arc in an afternoon doesn't mean all of the ideas were formed in one.

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>>156705433
more wood for the fire, some one is going to have to try and sacrifice some body at some point. Only question is will they "pussy out"

>>156705433
Miura's idol-master addiction has caused him to incorporate more Waifus into Berserk.

it will become a harem manga by chapter 400.

>>156704518
>>156705021
NUH UH YOURE PROVING ME RIGHT, HES JUST AN INCONSISTANT SHIT CHARACTER

>>156704204
>Also he's partially responsible for the death of a loli and an old man, and he doesn't give a shit.
No, you're wrong, he did care and was angry about their death, he just act he doesn't care. Same things with the count's loli daughter. He act like an ass to teach her a lesson and give her the well to live on.Guts is a good guy deep down while griffith is the opposite

>>156705768
That doesn't retcon his edginess in the time line though, from my experience as a hobby writer you just play that stuff into the story. He didn't have puck at the time so he was depressed, easy to explain don't have to retcon anything

>>156702913
Te asshole persona he had in the first act was just an act, he was show that he did care deep down

>>156705185
the film trilogy recovers the golden age arc

s1 of the new anime covers the Conviction Arc, with that big blockhead priest antagonist. s2 is continuing from there

>>156702913
After the Eclipse guts was broken. All of his friends were dead, his closest friend betrayed him in the worst way possible, and he lost the only person he has ever let close to him, with the worst part being that she isn't even gone, she's just a broken shell of her former self and Guts can't do anything about it.

The only thing that was keeping him going was revenge, but deep down Guts was going through an incredibly severe depression that he hid with anger and hostility. It's common for people who are suffering from depression to attempt to push people away in order to protect themselves, not to mention that fact that Guts knows anyone who gets close to him will most likely be killed by the evil spirits following him, or worse, be possessed by them, forcing Guts to kill them himself.

This is alluded to at the end of the lost children arc, where he tells Jill "look around you, this is my world" and telling her that if she comes with him, it will be her world too. Then he leaves.

As for telling the count's daughter to kill herself, that was his mercy. After she saw what she saw, and learned the truth behind her Father's change and her mother's death at her father's hands one can only imagine what kind of mental anguish she would experience after that. Guts knew first hand, that's why he did it.

He stops trying to push people away when he knows that they can not only help him protect Casca, not just from the evil spirits but from Himself, and that they are capable fighters who won't die easily.

Deep down Guts cares about others. He wants companionship. He wants friends, but he knows that the path he walks is a bloody one, and death is likely. He doesn't want to go through the same pain again, so he pushes people away. It's only when people push back that he accepts them.

can we all agree that Jill is best girl?

>>156706432
yes, unless the dukes daughter makes a comeback as a older sexy assassin and blows guts away with guilt.

>>156704272
Miura probably only had enough original ideas for a few volumes/years, and then when that ran out, he had to slowly slip back into Nip storytelling mode.

>>156706568
Guts didn't even do anything wrong, why would he be guilty

>>156704204
To be fair he had just been through some serious shit.

>>156705040
Prototype guts was more of your typical snarky protagonist guy than black swordsman guts.

Early volume Guts isn't Guts at all, might as well consider it non-canon or another one shot story.

How else can anyone explain why Guts fucked that female apostle on the first chapter?

>>156708129
Get close enough to unexpectedly fuck her up?

>>156708193
Seems really out of character for him to stick his dick in anyone other than Casca.

>>156708261
Early Guts was all about doing whatever he could to get the edge over people.

>>156704859
>berserk armor gives him great strength at the cost of big injuries
>two endless resources of healing powder are in his group
>armor makes him lose his mind in a savage way
>witch that knows how to wake him up joins at the same time
what's even the point

>>156705896
>become
name a female character that isn't in love with guts

>>156710718
Because he can't just have it for nothing and he'll go full beast mode and kill half the country before he turns into a skeleton rage wraith if shierke isn't around

>>156710741
Slan?

>>156713482
>implying she didn't love having his huge sword inside of her

She wants it and she wants it bad.

>>156710741
Nina

>>156702913
He was saved by the power of friendship.

>>156702913
The canon reason is that it's right after the Eclipse and he has no one else in the world and generally doesn't give a fuck anymore.
The meta reason is Miura hadn't really figured out what Guts' character or the overall tone of the series would be yet, and it was originally going to just be an episodic "angry dude runs around killing monsters" manga. This is also evidenced by the early chapters being referred to as "Revenge 1-16".
I don't think The Golden Age was planned to run as long as it did, but as it went on Miura realized that he had created something infinitely more interesting and valuable than what he had started out with.

>>156716928
>I don't think The Golden Age was planned to run as long as it did, but as it went on Miura realized that he had created something infinitely more interesting and valuable than what he had started out with.
That's depressing. We're at the point where his creative juices ran dry and it's going downhill ever since. I bet he doesn't have any idea how to go about with curing Caska and afterwards so we're stuck with relentless repetition of modern tropes like waifus and cute shit in berserk. Miura has lost all of his original edge and we're never going to see anything graphical as it were before boat.

>>156717157
You shouldn't be reading Berserk for the edge anyway. Despite the contrary thought, it wasn't *all* grim in the first volumes.

>>156704272
Akame Ga Kill style shonen?

>>156716928
I dont mind the party shit that happens nowadays, what I miss is guts being a crafty shit as well as being strong as fuck to win fights. Like back in the day he had to do shit like hide in fires and take hostages to win fights but now he just goes beast mode.

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if memory serves the first arc was when he just started traveling after survivng the eclipse, so he was pretty fucked up in the head at the time,

say what you will about puck but his constant retardation really helped guts mellow out and get back in the right place

>Casca gets healed
>"guts I don't want to skullfuck griffith to death let's just stay here, its pretty chill with all the fairies n sheeit"
>"yeah alright'
>AFTER A LONG JOURNEY BERSERK IS COMING TO A CLOSE THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONTINUED SUPPORT PERHAPS THE REAL BERSERK WAS THE FRIENDS WE MADE ALONG THE WAY
>yfw

>>156702913
The first arc is supposed to depict his 'worst' state of mind. He's trying to kill as many apostles as possible before they kill him. He has no hope and no bigger plan. He's literally edging and there's no one to point this out to him.

If he had the Berserker armor at this point, it would have consumed his humanity instantly.

>>156704415
the fact that that apostle was an abused child and did nothing wrong other than killings guts friends but he doesnt know about that

>>156717946
She also turned bunch of kids into demons and had them kill people.

>>156717980
>had them kill people
the town full of drunk child beaters? fuck em

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>>156717946
Fuck off Rosine. I didn't know they had 4chan in hell.

>>156717980
>>156718005

weren't the kids raping eachother too

>>156718005
Those kids are probably going to hell now as well with the way berserk works which is bad enough on its own.
>>156718111
They were imitating rape with their stingers.

>>156718136
The kids were going to hell anyway. Maybe Guts saved some by burning them before they finished their transformation.
Rosine had to be put down and Guts was more than willing to take the job.

>>156718136


buddy if I imitate rape with my penis on some lady's asshole I think that still classifies as rape

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>>156706385

>>156718242
Well if sticking your penis in some lady's asshole causes her to bleed out and die I think you might want to get that checked.

>>156718242
It's just a prank bro.

>>156718136
They raping errybody out here

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>>156704272
>Why did Berserk transform into a dark edgy shonen with "must train hard, naruto style" after Golden Age ?
HUH? What kind of training are you talking about? Also the edge dropped considerably since the beginning Black Swordsman chapters. The Lost Children or The Tower of Conviction arcs felt like edgy shonen arcs to you? Are we even reading the same manga?

>>156710718
>berserk armor gives him great strength at the cost of big injuries
>two endless resources of healing powder are in his group
Did you forget how long Guts was in bed recovering on the boat after reaching his limits with the armor in the Sea God arc? Yes Schierke and Puck can help with the healing but it's not like small scratches around the body, he literally strains his muscles until they give out and breaks bones. It's not like after he extensively uses the armor he's able to continue fightinf right away. That's when he's the most vulnerable.

>>156717917
>yfw they heal Casca's mind and Guts and co. end up staying and living on Elhelm and Rickert's the one to go to Griffith and defeats him

>>156705433
>What's her endgame?
to be cute
>Why is Miura letting her tag along?
she's cute

>>156713482
literally the second woman in the series to fall in love with him

>>156714085
>>156719587
Is she really in love with him or is she just a huge slut?

>>156719639
she puts him on a pedestal. I dont know if she's capable of love like humans

>>156710741
Flora, but she's dead and was Skull Knight's waifu.

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>>156704272
Berserk was born from Miura's desire to fuse the worlds of Fist of The North Star (shounen) and Rose of Versailles (shoujo). So it's not weird at all if Berserk has some shounen and shoujo elements here and there.

>>156719639
She have some kind of attachment to Guts but since she's obviously fuck up in the head it's really hard to know what she want from him or lets says she's love him but in her own twisted way

>>156720219
>Koji Mori was classmate of Miura

That's why Mori manga are so depressive.

>>156705363
This. He even reflects on his new party at one point, and how they remind him of the old Band.

>>156708261
Revenge was the only thing on his mind. Any means was justified to the end of getting payback on demonkind.

It's only after Godo pointing out how selfish it was to abandon Casca, and after getting a new "Band" that he regained more of his humanity and dropped his quest for vengeance.

>>156717917
Way it's likely to go
>Casca gets healed
>Guts wants to settle down with her, having grown out of his hateboner for Griffith
>The Eclipse now once again fresh in her memory, Casca instead wants to skullfuck Griffith
>tension ensues

Motherfucker he gets covered in dead children chronologically right after that.

He holds a kid hostage and holds another one on top of his sword as bait.

Plus at the end of the first arc he is completely sad and only acted so edgy to give that girl the same drive he got so she too can have something to live for.

>>156710741
Sonia

>>156710741
What about the prostitutes?

>>156725222
when is she going to show up again anyway?

>>156706385
The people the count's ruled over were also affraid of him once words of his death came out they'd turn on anyone working for him like mad dogs and would have burned the daughter to exorcice their demons or something.
Killing her would have been a kindness. There's no telling what happened to her once people came around the castle.

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>>156704204
Come on anon.
The reason Guts acts like that in the BS arc is because he can't deal with th pain and his other feelings after the eclipse and all that happened.
He never had to endure so much shit so he used his anger to forget his sadness and fear in order to survive.

>>156702913
He was trying to cope in his own way. Godo told him how much of shitty way to cope that was, so he started focusing on more important shit.