Is this literally the only good entry in this entire franchise

>>156068181
I think my dick is a good entry in your mom you shiteating fucking secondary.

Only the original VN is any good.

that would be fate extra CCC

>>156068181
When you say franchise, do you mean Fate or Type-Moon in general? If we're talking Fate, the original series: Fate/stay night, Fate/hollow ataraxia and Fate/zero are 10/10

Only the Prisma Ilya spinoff is any good

>>156068181
>the only good entry in the franchise
>the only one not written by Nasu

really recharges your mana

>>156068181
>Saber in the focus on all of the Fate/Zero artwork when it has an ensemble cast

No.

Strange Fake is good too.

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Can't we just replace Fate threads with threads dedicated to superior franchise, Tsukihime?

>>156068650
Better yet, can we just enjoy the nasuverse as a whole?

>>156068679
Nah

>>156068577
>ANN: How much control and input did you have over the characters who participated in the 4th Holy grail war? Did you sit down with Kinoko Nasu and discuss who would be added to the Nasuverse or were you given free reign to create any characters that were not previously established?

Gen Urobuchi: The process was that I drafted up a proposal for the new characters and the plot, and showed it to Nasu-san for his supervision. However, consequently, 90% of those proposals were accepted as they were already Nasu-san's ideas. As for character names, Hisau Maiya was only character name that I suggested. The other characters were all named by Nasu-san.

>In the Fate/stay night visual novel, Saber mentions that she only talked to Emiya Kiritsugu three times during the 4th Holy Grail War. Was it difficult writing a story in which the two main characters can only talk to each other directly 3 times?

In order to abide by the original story, the character Irisviel has been introduced. Saber only talks to Irisviel. Kiritsugu only talks to Irisviel, too. So, in the end, Irisviel plays the role of facilitating communication between these two, who do not talk to each other.

>How often did you feel you had change elements out the story in your head to fit in with the story of Fate/stay night? Were there any plot elements that had to be completely scrapped to stay within the overall time line? Did you feel you had retcon anything in Fate/stay night to fit into your story?

As a result of the discussions between Takeuchi-san (character design) and myself, Kirei Kotomine's height in Fate/stay night was revised for Fate/Zero. Also, we had to adjust the relationship between Saber and Kiritsugu, so as not to be too bad. We were afraid that if Saber excessively increases her distrust toward Kiritsugu, she would not easily open her heart to Shiro, who is Kiritsugu's adopted child.

>>156068181
fate zero is shit though

>>156068722
So yeah, is shit.

>>156068679
We haven't been able to do that since 2014. Do you remember why?

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>>156068650

Serious question: what the fuck happened to the remake?

I've been putting off finishing Tsukihime for years because I thought the remake's release date was "soon".

>>156068935
Mahoyo was forgotten. Fate is making money.

>>156068935
Fate G/O has blinded Type-Moon with all the money it's making

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>>156068935
Anon you baka.

>>156069024
What has Sony done to Type-Moon?

>>156068181
The characters and story are approached in a way more appealing manner.

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>>156068722
>Also, we had to adjust the relationship between Saber and Kiritsugu, so as not to be too bad. We were afraid that if Saber excessively increases her distrust toward Kiritsugu, she would not easily open her heart to Shiro, who is Kiritsugu's adopted child.

This doesn't really make any sense, since her last memory of the 4th War was always going to be Kiritsugu backstabbing her so hard every Englishman on earth felt it.

No matter what, her perspective looks like this:

"YAMEROOOOOOOOoooohh hey, new Master, same name as the old Master."

She doesn't really start opening her heart to Shirou until he shakes her hand like a man and pledges to win the Cup for her, something Kiritsugu never did.

>>156069105
Explain

>>156069153
More emphasis on the battles and interesting protag to name a couple.

>>156069058

Hey, I finished all the fun routes. Just Kohaku and Hisui left.

I tried starting Hisui's route but I just don't give a fuck about the maids.

>>156068935
Tsukihime didn't end when they ran out of stories, it ended when they run out of money.

Fate brings in money, which means more stories.

>>156068276
this.

>>156069214
Akiha is best girl.

Zero = for normal people

Fate = for NEETs needing something to fap to

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>>156069214
>I finished all the fun routes. Just Kohaku and Hisui left.
But the maid routes are better than all the other ones. Read them before you get spoiled because they explain a lot of shit that happened.
I am a Kohakufag so I'm biased, but they are good routes.
Kohaku did NOTHING wrong

>>156069386
DELET THIS

>>156069407
Nice font file

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>>156068181
Prisma is the best Fate offshot. Paradox with Nasuverse is that (comedy) spinoffs are the best but to fully enjoy them you must also be familiar with base material.

>>156069214
Kohaku's route is good. Even if you don't like her as a character, it's one of the more intense ones.

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>>156069443
Y-You too
I have no clue what you mean by font file

FS/N is bad though. Zero isn't ultra great or anything, but it's a decent watch. The S/N VN is generic chuuni garbage with atrocious writing and worse pacing. I really don't understand why anyone likes it.

>>156069527
punctuation and spaces shows up as | in your game

>>156069575
kys

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>>156068181

I really, really want an adaptation of the 3rd War following the Tohsaka member. IIRC the Tohsaka family was pretty weak until this dude managed a goddamn miracle, won the war (although he didn't get his wish) and fucked an Edelfelt. I want to see that!

It was held right before WW2 so you have Nazis, Commies and the IJA running around, and this is when Avenger gets summoned so it's a pivotal moment in the story. Risei Kotomine becomes the Supervisor, too.

>>156069601
44 seconds is probably record timing for me.

But it's true.

>>156069575
Fate/other night, aka, Heaven's Feel

>>156068181
The biggest problem I have with the TypeMoon universe is that Nasu decided he'd make the FSN VN based on the Fifth HGW.

Word of God says the first two wars were jokes that ended really quickly and wouldn't be entertaining. I can accept that. I'd be happy with just mentions of that.

But where Nasu fucked up was deciding that the Fifth war would have multiple, all equally canon routes, utterly gimping the prospect of sequels beyond expansions of each route, adding more routes, or utter continuity clusterfucks like H/A.

By making the Fifth HGW the VN with multiple routes, he limited how the universe can be used. From that point, only the preceding wars can be given singular canon narratives, although constrained by what is said in the Fifth HGW about them (this is not a bad thing, in the case of Zero it worked really well. But only because Urobutcher is good at writing when you give him clear plot points to include and adhere to).

So if you like the universe, too bad, the only decent work that can be produced in it without retcon is adaptations of the Fourth and Third HGW. Fate Zero was excellent, leagues better than FSN, because Nasu didn't write it and it had a single narrative.

If FSN had been something like, the 15th war, with the first war happening much earlier, this wouldn't be as big a problem. But Nasu utterly lacks the ability to plan for the long term.

I wouldn't even be this upset if other works could at least adhere to the same universe. I like that Tsukihime takes place in the same universe, but again he gimped the future use of any characters by using multiple routes. But then you've got KnK, which is excellently written in comparison, but no, it has to occur in a parallel universe that follows the same rules.

>>156069635
I'll admit that I only played the Fate route, and some of UBW. But I really can't imagine that it gets that much better after 30 straight hours of trash.

>>156069304
>>156069407
>>156069445

My only beef with Kohaku route is that it makes me want a 2nd Akiha route.

>>156069713
You should fuck off. Your opinion is worth shit.

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>you will never watch Fate/zero's ninonico streams again with /a/

This shit is among the most fun I've had on this board

>>156069713
HF is both really good and really fucking bad. It's a weird experience cause while everything comes crashing down around the characters and shit seems to be fucked, they still try and pretend everything is fine and have tons of SoL and cooking scenes. It's kinda jarring.

>>156069713

It's really not much better. Like if you go back many years, it was UBW is the greatest guis trust us, and then people realized it was garbage. Now we're here.

Fate/Zero is a pretty terrible way to get into the Fate series. It's fine to watch on its own if you have no interest in Fate because its story is surface-level and doesn't require one to understand anything about the Fate setting in order to enjoy it. It just skips around from character to character and focuses on the drama between the characters.

That's why as an introduction to Fate it's terrible. An introduction should give you a basic understanding of the setting and make it easier to jump into other parts of the franchise, but F/Z does neither of these because it's too wrapped up in its shallow character drama to participate meaningfully in Fate's worldbuilding. Almost everything important in F/Z that would help you understand the core concepts of Fate is just taken from F/SN and then skimmed over without really explaining it.

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>>156069735
>My only beef with Kohaku route is that it makes me want a 2nd Akiha route.
I would've wanted that either way because Akiha doesn't get any good endings where her and Shiki get to enjoy life together. I really want to see an offshoot sequel where Tohno has to take on the DAAs in order to stop the resurrection of the Dark Six.
Imagine how bad Akiha must have felt in the Kohaku route when she was getting NTRd by her maid
>>156069713
>I'll admit that I only played the Fate route, and some of UBW. But I really can't imagine that it gets that much better after 30 straight hours of trash.
Not him, but when you admit to not having read the entirety of the source material, and then ask "what do people even like about this?", you probably aren't going to generate much productive discussion.

>>156069780
They literally spent the entire first episode having someone walk in a circle and explain it to you. The reason Zero is good is because it doesn't focus on that shit.

>>156069693
Except multiple routes hasn't caused any problems at all for creating sequels and spin-offs because Fate is and always has been a multiverse. Have you even played the VN?

>>156069887
>Akiha doesn't get any good endings where her and Shiki get to enjoy life together.
Her true end where Shiki disappears gets retconned in KT. Or rather than retconned, he just comes back. Cause reasons.

>>156069769
HF's cooking scenes i'm iffy about cause while I was reading I kept thinking to myself I just want to see what happens next but by the end of the route it made me appreciate Sakura more and the normal ending hits harder.

>>156069763
I miss the memes I've started to frequent 4chan slightly before FZ started airing. Wild ride.inb4, VN/LNfag

>>156069937
I mean, the true end ends with the possibility that he's still alive, it just seems like grief fueled delusion on its own. I'm personally glad Nasu likes happy endings

>>156069771
>Like if you go back many years, it was UBW is the greatest guis trust us, and then people realized it was garbage.
Quit implying that people all agreed on anything. /a/ is not one person. Have you considered that less people are talking about UBW because
1. Talking about it invites secondaries which decreases the quality of the discussion
2. People who watched UBW either felt satisfied with it so feel no need to talk about it or disliked it so they don't want to talk about it.
3. You're a faggot.

>>156069887
It's not like reading 30 hours didn't give me a pretty good idea of what it is. Just because I didn't sit through another 20 of unlikable characters, badly written chuuni battles, long winded out of place cooking scenes, and out of place ero scenes with lots of seafood analogies doesn't mean I don't have a food picture. I don't have to eat an entire plate of shit to know that the second half is going to taste about the same as the first, with maybe a little more corn.

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>>156069937
>Her true end where Shiki disappears gets retconned in KT
Really? I need to read KT then. I've been putting it off for a while because of real life stuff.
Akiha deserved it though.

We can all agree Hisui is best Turkeyhandle right?
>ywn hear her voice again
It hurts.

>>156068181
Neh, it's more like H/F>>>>UBW>>F/Z>>>>shit>>>>>>>Stay Night

First route is only good as an infodump and to show the most "standard" way things can go

>>156069929
You really shouldn't try to talk about things you know nothing about, secondary. That first episode exposition is surface-level info dump you get in basically every Fate title, it doesn't explain anything about the setting or worldbuilding and in fact contains deliberate misinformation that F/Z does nothing to clear up. You act like it's good that F/Z doesn't dive into the worldbuilding but you're just confirming what I said: it's fine for secondaries who don't want to get into Fate, but as an introduction it's terrible because it does absolutely nothing to ease people into Fate's confusing mythos.

>>156069887
>Not him, but when you admit to not having read the entirety of the source material, and then ask "what do people even like about this?", you probably aren't going to generate much productive discussion.
>D-dude, you've played through 30 hours of this ~100 hour game, y-you can't POSSIBLY make yourself a good opinion of it! At least finish the TUTORIAL!
That's how you Fatefags all sound like when someone criticizes your shitty VN.

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>>156068181
Yeah, the original VN sucks dick.

>>156070089
KT is great, I kinda enjoyed it a bit more than Tsukihime and I can brag that I managed to 100% clear it without the flowchart.

Len is super cute.

It also has the only TM h-scene I've managed to fap to.

>>156070038
Those things never stopped people back then. I dunno why it suddenly stopped them now just because the recent one is so super special because some faggots finally got to watch something people had watched twice already.

>>156070159
Why are u so angry o.0

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>>156069713
In buzzwords: HF is even more shonenshit and over the top than UBW. Fags won't admit it because they are blinded by mature grimdark atmosphere, rape and edgy Saber. Looking back, progressing from there to moba seems just too natural.

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>>156070085
>20 of unlikable characters
I liked them pretty well
>Badly written chuuni battles
Depends on which ones you're referring to. Shirou vs Gil, Saber vs. Fake Assassin, all the battles in HF were good in my opinion. Also Saber+Archer vs Berserker in UBW was nice.
HF has a very different tone and atmosphere from the rest of the VN so please stop acting like you know what it is like when you haven't read it.
>>156070091
>We can all agree Hisui is best Turkeyhandle right?
Her sister is better, but both are wonderful.

>>156070159
It's split into 3 separate stories, he read only the first one which is the most straight forward and exposition-heavy. The routes get more complicated and introduce more unexpected twists, with HF being radically different from the other two. So yeah, he's not really in a position to say anything because he played through babby's first Fate story.

>>156070150
It's hilarious how much I get called a secondary just for going against the circlejerk. Believe it or not it is possible to read things and not like every aspect of them.

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>>156069937
Akiha is my favorite girl, but the end of her KT story just shits all over the ending of her Tsukihime route. It was really fucking bittersweet, but it was a satisfying ending. KT's retcon was just unnecessary.

>>156070241
You're a secondary because it's obvious you've only watched F/Z, because you think F/Z adequately explains the Fate setting.

>>156070187
>and I can brag that I managed to 100% clear it without the flowchart.
You're full of shit, anon. You literally have to manipulate your save file to 100% it.

>>156070159
I don't care if you criticize or praise, if you haven't completed it your opinion is worthless. Cry some more.

>>156070204
>o.0

Back to whatever designated normie network you came from.

>>156070235
So you do admit that at least 1/3 is shit and the second third isn't that much different?
Now tell me, why would a normally built human sit through 2/3 of shit only to reach something that might be good? They don't.

>>156070089
I love Akiha she deserved more love.

>>156070261
Once again, I've read the VN. I just don't another 4 episodes of exposition dump would have been good for the series. Maybe actually come up with some points instead of just hiding behind

>muh source material

And

>muh secondaries

Every time someone disagrees with you.

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>>156070091
Vanilla Turkeyhandle: Hisui > Akiha >= Arc
Post Vanilla: Sion = Kohaku > Arc > *

>>156070159
>That's how you Fatefags all sound like when someone criticizes your shitty VN without having read it all*
Ftfy
There is also a difference between saying "I didn't like something" and "It is badly written". The former is subjective and the latter is objective. If you try to speak objectively without offering facts and evidence, people are going to be hostile towards you. As they should.
So, would you like to be more specific about your criticisms or is shitposting more fun for you?
>>156070187
>KT is great, I kinda enjoyed it a bit more than Tsukihime and I can brag that I managed to 100% clear it without the flowchart.
I will definitely read it soon then.

>>156070091
>that scene where she tells Shiki to take her with him whenever he decides to go live on his own.
My heart couldn't handle it.

>>156070287
I really don't think that's the case, just replay from the beginning a lot. Is that for the CG with girl Arc showing up in the photo Makihisa had hidden?

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>believing the UBW is good meme
>believing the HF is good meme
I wonder if Fatebabbys actually laugh at all the idiots that fall for that shit after they read Fates and hate it, then proceed to spend hours more reading this porn novel.

>>156070292
Dude, I don't care what you think, somebody who thinks a work featuring shit like "YOU DODGED MY UNDODGEABLE BLOW", Rin running after Shirou like a shitty tsundere in the hallways, Saber "forgetting to activate her instincts" against the teacher who SOMEHOW manages to best her despite being human, the ex-machina Caliburn or even Gil coming out of fucking nowhere or... well I think you get it.

>>156070315
You realize people do this with TV shows all the time right?

>The first x episodes are slow, but if you can make it to episode y it's totally worth it.

>>156070387
Badly written is subjective. "Bad" is subjective.

I saw Fate/Zero before anything else in the series and it's probably my least favourite of the main franchise, even with spoilers. Kiritsugu a shit.

>>156070437
Oh, well then enjoy getting shat on every time you decide to share your retarded opinion. Typing like a redditor spastic doesn't help your case either.

>>156070159
>waaah why won't people listen to my retarded opinion even if I read only 1/3 of the work?
Do you realize how retarded you sound?

>>156070431
Back to /tv/ or whatever shithole you came from

>>156070315
No, I said it's straight forward and exposition-heavy. Which is beneficial to you as a new reader because it makes it easier to adapt to the twists that come later because you know how it should play out 'normally'. Also, each new route adds new layers of understanding to the previous ones. Because each route focuses on different aspects of the war and you interact with different people, it makes what happens in the other routes different in retrospect. Fate is very much the "surface level" version of the story, but there's still all that other stuff beneath the surface you're not seeing. After you play through UBW and HF, you are aware even as you stay on the placid surface of what is lurking beneath it, unseen.

>>156070462
Yes, but that's usually not "the first 20 episodes are total garbage, but the last 4 are ok"

Not to mention that VNs are usually a bigger time commitment.

And people who say that usually just aren't able to understand buildup.

>>156070431
>That post
>That picture
Get. Out.

>>156070462
There's a huge difference between sitting through dozens of HOURS and only a few episodes that reach barely 1/10 or 1/20 of that amount combined.

Fucking Grisaia was better written.

>>156070513
>"r-r-redditor!!" he said running away, his face flushed, hiding his shame of being told and having no retort

>>156070437
>Dude, I don't care what you think
Replying to someone isn't a good way to show how little you care.
>Saber "forgetting to activate her instincts" against the teacher who SOMEHOW manages to best her despite being human
She didn't forget to "activate her instincts". The teacher fought in a way that instincts were useless because it was completely unconventional. Did you forget he was being buffed by Caster who had "Age of Gods" tier magic at her disposal? It seems like somehow Fate was 2deep4u and that your idiocy is the author's fault.

>>156070431
UBW has fun fights and HF has fun Illiya and Rider interaction. But I admit that I had more fun reading Demonbane.

>>156070543
Typing.Like.An.Underage.Retard

>>156070518
You're not even replying to the person you are complaining about. Believe it or not, there are several people here that don't like it.

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>>156070402
You have to mess with your save for the different pictures, and I'm pretty sure it was possible to lock yourself out of the true ending and force you to mess with your save.

>>156070567
Nice quip. Bet it gets you all the upvotes.

>>156070356
You haven't read shit. I'm not talking about exposition dumps at all, I'm talking about contributions to the worldbuilding and actually dealing with the concepts important to Fate's multiverse. Fate/Zero only barely touches on these things, it cuts out the story right as the curtain gets pulled back and you see the truth of the HGW and it doesn't bother to explain anything. If you had actually played the VN you'd know what I'm talking about when I mention things like Rin using the 2nd magic or the true purpose of the HGW, which feature heavily in F/SN but are not really dealt with at all in F/Z.

S E C O N D A R Y

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>>156070567
>>"r-r-redditor!!" he said running away, his face flushed, hiding his shame of being told and having no retort
Who are you quoting?

>>156070520
>After you play through UBW and HF, you are aware even as you stay on the placid surface of what is lurking beneath it, unseen.

Jesus christ, your 4chan posts are as chuuni as Nasu's writing.

>>156070356
Name the participants in the chronologically third sex scene in the game.

>>156070682
>use metaphors
>UR CHUUNI!
Maybe go back to /v/ where the average person is 12 years old and writes like they never finished middle school?

>>156070567
holy fuck you ARE a redditor lmao

kill urself my man

>>156070600
I really don't remember that, the different pictures were obtained by picking different choices that led to the same outcome and starting from the beginning a lot. You can keep replaying it after you get the true end to unlock the pictures.

After I got the true end, the only CG I was missing was the young Arc in the photo you find in Makihisa's room and if I recall correctly I got it by picking Arc related choices in the morning then helping Kohaku organize Makihisa's room. I never messed with my save files.

>>156070722
Maybe stop writing MAL-tier tl;drs you cringeworthy sperg

>>156070574
>The teacher fought in a way that instincts were useless because it was completely unconventional.
Dude, it was said again and again and again that human cannot possibly match servants and that even Kiritsugu or Kotomine at their prime couldn't best one, then just because the teacher has an unconventional martial art style neutralizes concepts like reaction time? That's bullshit writing. If servants are so quick, the teacher would have moved at a snail's pace from Saber's pov.

>>156070680
This isn't /jp/.

>>156070738
>says the guy who writes like fucking tard and has absolutely zero retort other than namecalling

Top tier.

>>156070567
Yeah ok, I can understand you don't feel like spending so many hours on it but my point is, why the fuck do you even came here shitting on the whole fucking game if you haven't even completed it?

Feel free to hate it tho, but at least know what the fuck you are talking about

>>156070799
I don't go on MAL so I don't know what "MAL-tier" is. I'll write however I want and if you don't like it you can fuck off back to >>>/v/. Nice job deflecting the point of my posts though.

>>156070831
Nobody's arguing with you redditor-kun. I don't owe you a retort. Eat shit.

>>156069612
I too want a LN, anime, or whatever about the 3rd war.

Do we know of any Servant used in there, other than Angry Manjew?

Fate is Reddit as fuck

>>156070831
>Dude, it was said again and again and again that human cannot possibly match servants and that even Kiritsugu or Kotomine at their prime couldn't best one, then just because the teacher has an unconventional martial art style neutralizes concepts like reaction time? That's bullshit writing. If servants are so quick, the teacher would have moved at a snail's pace from Saber's pov.
He was getting buffed by Caster to be able to keep up. Is that hard to understand for you? When someone who has an unconventional martial arts style and gets buffed by magic from the Age of Gods by a servant with excellent skill in magic, he is able to match a servant who has a master who can't give them enough mana.
>This isn't /jp/.
Greentext is still a quoting tool whether this is jaypee or not.

>>156070863
>m-muh point
Cry more nerd.

>>156070936
You do remember that Fate is one of the most talked about series on /a/ for over ten years now, right? Put in more effort, lazy shitposter.

>>156070977
What the fuck does quoting even have to do with /jp/? The fag you're replying to is a retard newfag.

>>156070831
This is why you shouldn't skim scenes. Servants are immune to mundane harm, normal weapons and human fists can't hurt them. Kuzuki was buffed by Caster so that he could actually hurt Saber, and his fighting technique was unique in that it defied the natural instincts of seasoned fighters. His movements are so bizarre and untraceable that for Saber her normal instincts about how a human should move would actually work against her. For the first fight, anyway, because after seeing how he moves she would have learned how to react. Which is why Kuzuki doesn't do so well the second time they fight.

>>156068181
What a shit question, of course it is. It's more mature and actually encapsulates a dark and grim atmosphere for the story it's trying to present. F/sn is a cringeworthy battle shonen power fantasy for manchilds.

>>156070936
Reddit didn't even know Fate until Zero got adapted.

>>156070585
Put. Spaces. After. Dots.
And dot final words nigger.

>>156070936
Fate is /a/core my dude

>>156070936
Fate GO is
The shitty spin offs are
Fate/Zero is also
The adaptations are

But 40 hours of some japanese porn novel isn't reddit, in fact, from what you can see in this thread a lot of fuckers on /a/ didn't even read it and shit on it anyway

>>156071030
>The fag you're replying to is a retard newfag.
Yeah. I should just ignore him after this. I should've realized he was just shitposting.

>>156070936
>being this desperate to muddy the water
kek

>>156071070
so basically you're trying to imply that reddit has better taste than /a/

you have to go back

>>156070860
But I know what I'm talking about. I'm talking about something that made me want to kill myself from how horribly written and chuuni as fuck it was. It's a miracle I made it through the Fate route, especially after this absolutely SUPERB sex scene in the ruins during the Hercules "chase". Truly the epitome of writing.

>>156070977
>>156071042
So, in order to appreciate this stuff, I need to learn about shit that was obviously made on the spot to have Saber job AGAIN without any prior, then retroactively inserted into the story? Any shitty fanfic "writer" can do this. In fact, "fan fiction" is how the whole story read like.

>>156071030
>implying /a/ has never used > as bullet points

Why is everyone replying to the redditor? Report & ignore.

>>156071231
>bullet points
literal non-sequitur

what the fuck are you talking about

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>>156068530
Why is it the only thing not translated yet I don't understand

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The voiced version takes around 168 hours to complete listening to all the dialogue while going through the three routes and the 40 bad ends.

>>156071300
So? It's like you don't read anon.

>>156071300
How many hours do you think are of Shirou being autistic in the kitchen/dining room? I'm guessing at least 40

>>156070920

The Edelfelt sisters both had a Saber. They summoned a Servant with a split personality or something and it manifested as a two-for-one kind of deal. SISTERS THEY WERE

Assassin was a dwarf and a real prick.

Avenger instead of Berserker.

That's all I remember from Fate/Hollow.

>>156071231
No you didn't read it. You read 1/3 of it, so fuck off retard

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>>156071285
>Why is it the only thing not translated yet I don't understand
>only thing not translated

>>156071300
I remember getting all the bad ends from Fate and UBW and giving up halfway through HF. I simply thought it was a shame to skim some parts that I got super bored of it.
I still won't watch F/Z or continue to other parts of the franchise before I force myself into finishing it some day.

>>156071417
>I simply thought it was a shame to skim some parts that I got super bored of it.
Are you ready for "SENPAI SENPAI SENPAI"?

>>156071395
At least it has a partial.

>>156071417
I'm jelly of you. A lot of good shit in there.

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>>156071347
Perhaps next time I'll screenshot all the cooking and eating scenes and make a compilation of recepies that are presented. Maybe the hidden message of the series is about having a healthy diet.

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>>156071395

>>156071283
I was using > to underline how ridiculous your former post was. In fact, I shouldn't even have responded to you considering how assblasted you're acting over simple criticism. As a matter of fact, you were replying to justified criticism by namecalling and personal attacks, which is nothing short of idiocy and laziness.

>>156071360
See >>156070159
Kill yourself.

Is Tsuki no Sango good? Should I read Notes before it?

I have a craving for non-fate TM.

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>>156071480
>At least it has a partial.
That's true.
>>156071521
Has any one ever tried to translate it?

>>156068181
And then you realize nothing in the franchise is good once you get good taste

>>156068722
It's not who approved the story, but who actually wrote it better than nasu.

>>156071554
Still at it retard? I don't care how many hours there are, you didn't finish it and your opinion is worth shit.

>>156071641
DELETE

>>156071479
Can you not read? I gave up halfway through, literally mid ero scene. Too much sex!

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>>156068181
Zero is a failed retelling of the happenings as described in the VN.

I say failed, because as we know from the Zero ending as well, Kiritsugu would be the absolute utilitarian. Him joining the HGW, he would sacrifice anything for result, for the absolute utilitarian ideal, saving everyone, meaning anyone would be sacrificed for that end. So when he does things like evacuating people before setting off a bomb, when he always kills people you are given a reason to hate, but never a single one you might find a reason to like, then I just think they went too soft on him to preserve the image of a hero.
"Yes, he killed. He did not think like you about not involving innocent people. He thoroughly attacked his enemy's weakness, allowing no chance to counterattack. He used the enemy's family as a shield and their friends as their shackles to win the war.""
Sure, one can try to explain it by saying Kirei's lying, but as we know by the end of Zero, that's how Kiritsugu's mind operated. It just seems like they tried to preserve likability of the character by never making him do things that would make you dislike him.

>>156071671
Not that anon. But someone that has actually played the VN, the best part about it, was watching the bad ends with Shirou dying in gruesome ways since he's one of the most insufferable protagonists I've ever come across.

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>>156071690
>Too much sex!
I'll show you too much sex

>>156068530
My aqauintance

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>>156071620
To be honest I probably just found it (JtheE 108 pages pdf). I have no idea bout the structure of DDD - how many books/ stories etc.
Is Mahoyo completly dead? Commie buried it?

>>156071690
>Too much sex!
How have you survived so long?

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>>156068181
FATE - I thought this route served its role very well as an introductory piece, not just to the nasuverse (I had previously watched Kara no Kyoukai twice) but also to Shirou's mind and how disturbed he is. I grew an appreciation for Saber as a character, too. I always thought she was greatly overrated after watching the F/Z and UBW anime, so it was nice to get to the meat of her character in the VN. I don't think she's a fantastic character, but I think she's pretty decently written. I enjoyed a few action scenes more than I thought I would, most notably Archer Fate. Some moments left me in awe, like Gil's appearance at the Emiya household and the things hidden in the church basement. There were also some moments that kind of let me down, too. Shirou and Saber excaliblasting Berserker together was kinda corny (the whole fight was, even Rin's part) and the ending fight with Gil and Saber seemed very fairytail-ish. Overall, it wasn't a great route, IMO, but I think that's in large part due to its duty to introduce readers to the world whereas UBW and HFespecially get to capitalize upon the foundation built beforehand. It was hindered in that manner so I don't like to compare it to the other routes directly.

>>156069058
>Arcs perfect smiles are going to be removed
For what purpose? Can newfags not handle older artstyles?

>>156071360
This guy
>>156071554
Is not
>>156069713
This guy.

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>>156071920
UBW - The first half of the route seemed a bit lackluster to me but the second half was very solid. The Shirou/Archer conflict is probably my favorite plot element of the VN. It's such a creatively clever and gripping way to illustrate the struggle between two idealistic individuals, what they represent, the resolve a person shows in their dream, and the strength of willpower and conviction. Their whole struggle is a metaphor and paints the way a person can advance themselves beyond whichever self is holding them back. It almost feels like a shounen powerup but that's not a bad thing at all. My feelings towards Shirou also improved from being slightly turned off by him to being pretty neutral. On the negative side, I wasn't a huge fan of the Caster conflict. It wasn't bad or uninteresting, just kind of meh. The ending is something that doesn't sit well with me now that I've read HF, but it was agreeable with me before that. As a whole, I thought this route did a good job expanding the boundaries set by Fate while staying consistent with the rules. There were some ambiguous plot points but they seem to have been cleared up by Nasu afterwards. I'd say it's my second favorite route and I've rewatched the anime after finishing up the route in the VN and enjoyed it as much as the first watch.

>>156071897
Fate had like 2 sex scenes, 3 if you include the rape.
Rin is my favorite.
Sakura was meh, but her sex scenes were too long and contained the same boring shit over and over again. They should've given her anal to match her route.

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>>156071959
HF - This was the route that really brought the experience home for me. I usually like stuff that's darker, grim, and laced with loss/pain so I have a natural affinity for stuff like this. There was a wide array of emotions that stirred within me and that ultimately led it to being the most impactful route for me. I felt actual anger at Zouken and Shinji, which is something that few pieces of fiction can make claim to. I felt for the characters, notably Shirou and Sakura, for their struggle, the pain they endured, and the losses they incurred. I actually cried once while reading the route, which is extremely rare for me. I can probably count on one hand how many times I've cried in my life while consuming fiction. It hurt so good. This route also sold me on Shirou as one of my favorite characters. I rooted for him so hard in his final battle with mapo tofu, which is something I didn't envision when I began this journey. I really liked the focus on characters who'd been shafted in the prior routes so that's something I appreciated, too. Don't hurt me but Saber, Rin, and Caster were beginning to get a bit tiring after two full routes of them. It was also a welcome change to see this route take all of the things the two previous routes established and to toss them upside down. It feels like a different story, yet the characters seem true to themselves at the same time. Admittedly, the selfish/human side to Shirou was a drastic change, but it made sense why this side of him, which had been buried beneath the trauma/guilt/PTSD, would surface in this route. The shortcomings to me were just the lull in the middle of the route and some minor problems with both endings, though the true end is easily my favorite of the VN. I'd say quite easily that this route was my favorite.

>>156071620
I'd gladly donate money to get it translated but I guess people don't like money

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>>156071997
SHIROU - If it wasn't clear above, I began to like him more and more as I moved through the routes. I thought at first that I had begun to tolerate him better but after thinking about it, I think I just favored the way he progressed and developed. Fate sets him up for change and shows up how disturbed his mind is, leaving room for two different ways to live as a human. I favored the resolution he reached in the HF route because he places value in his life and has something that he wants to live for. It's not grand and he won't reach his potential as a magus but he's doing what his heart desires and that's a way to live that I think is genuine and admirable. UBW's conclusion to me was kinda iffy. He's going to become a grand heroic figure, but it's born from tossing himself away for others because he doesn't value himself and is laced with self-delusion as well. That, to me, isn't how I think a person should live, regardless of which destination they end up at (hero, criminal, ordinary person, etc.). It's rare to see a protagonist with as much complexity and room for growth as Shirou and, being a critically minded person, I really like him after finishing up the VN. He's one of my favorite protagonists.

>>156071620
I've read both volumes in russian years ago.

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Type Moon is shit, but it's entertaining shit.

Wait. Fate was a porn vn?

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>>156068181

no

>>156072038
Sup newfaggot-kun?

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>>156072022
SABER - As I said above, the VN has given me a good view of Saber where it was pretty underwhelming before. To follow her struggle, the burden she bore, the sacrifice she made for a greater cause, was all a very somber and emotional experience. I hate when people don't get rewarded for the work they put in, and it made me upset for Saber. I think she really capitalized in her role as the primary female lead and the Fate route was good to her. Her resolution to accept her kingship felt a bit sudden and weakly written to me, but it's not something that's hard to forgive. She's among my favorite characters, and I'm glad that I got to experience her journey. I can't speak much towards how my opinion of her changed across the routes but that's only because the bulk of her characterization is handled in just Fate, so maybe it stayed the same throughout? She's my second favorite heroine.

>>156072038
Wait you didn't know that Fate originally started off as a hentai?

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>>156071620
>>156071881
Heh, found the second one, 303 pages, ends with /month of hunt, recollections - end

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>>156072038

you have to be 18 to post here.

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>>156071999
>I'd gladly donate money to get it translated but I guess people don't like money
I'll take your money, but I can't translate it. That'll still work right?
>>156072031
How is it translated in Russian, but not English?

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>>156072064
RIN - This is a weird one. When I watched the UBW anime, she was my favorite girl since Saber didn't shine as a character in this route and Sakura/Illya/Rider were brushed aside almost completely. After finishing up the VN, I'd comfortably say that she's my least favorite heroine, though I am still very favorable towards her. She's easily the most fun girl and there was scarcely a dull moment when she was on screen. She also has two of my favorite SoL moments in the whole VN. She's endearing, easy to cheer for, and kinda badass. On the negative side, I think she falls short as a character because she gobbles up screentime at a rate unmatched by anyone but Shirou and I don't feel rewarded for it. There's very little development to show for it and it wasn't something that can really be applicable to something people deal with in real life. I also have a natural aversion to perfection and waifu-bait in characters and Rin is a pretty big offender in both categories. It's not dealbreaking stuff, just kind of offputting to me. I liked her best in Fate when she was in a mentor role that kept her tsundere mess shenanigans to a minimum. UBW was mostly good but said shenanigans grew old pretty quick. Then comes HF. I think she's at her best as a character in this route, but her worst as a person. I actually grew quite upset with her in the last third of the route but she totally redeemed herself to me at the resolution of a certain fight she was involved in. While this route did bring to surface a few problems I have with her as a person, my view of her is pretty favorable at the end of it all.

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>>156072118
SAKURA - I have an affinity for psychologically disturbed characters that we get to explore the mind of in a character study type of manner. Sakura is one of the better examples I've seen of this in fiction. These types of characters don't build affinity easily as they aren't ultra-competent, badass, sources of escapism, etc. but I find them to be very interesting if done properly. They force you to confront the fragility of the human psyche, the delusions we drown ourselves in, and the way we cope with problems we face. Sakura serves as a good commentary to all of these things so I really liked her. I admittedly have a soft spot for tragic characters, so she earns some points there from me, too. On the flip side, I would have liked to see her character arc resolve in a more inspiring way but I can see and respect what Nasu wanted to do. I think he mishandled her a bit, to be honest, and it's probably the reason she didn't vibe with a good number of readers. He should have given readers a reason to care about her before pulling the stunts he did with her in HF. Sympathetic villains (can we call her that?) only work if there's some affinity built between readers and the character before, after all. Additionally, I think Nasu went quite overboard with how tragic her life was and I think it put some people off, too. I didn't mind it, personally, but it felt kind of lazy. It would have been nice to see her in a different light, too, and not just the hopeless, tantrum-throwing one we got in HF. But, as a whole, despite the small amount of time we got to spend with her, she was my favorite. She earns points for actually making me care about the romance, too, which is a genre I usually don't care for such as in the other two routes.

>>156072085
>>156072102
>>156072059
Pls no bully. The first fate related thing I consumed was fate/extra. I went on from there and didn't touch the VN's.

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>>156072147
I didn't get to touch upon the rest of the cast, but I just wanted to add that Fate/Stay Night has become one of my favorite series across any medium. Even if I went in with high expectations, I would have been floored, anyway. I love the characters and the different ideals/virtues they uphold and the varied commentaries they provide. I love the full pallet of emotions I was able to experience and how much they resonated with me. There are some soundtracks that I will never forget and they seem to have taken up permanent residence in my head. I love Kirei. The execution of themes, especially overcoming hardship, advancing yourself beyond your own boundaries, and sacrificein HF were very well executed. Kirei is a good executioner, too. I am so glad that I decided to pick up the VN. I only did so because so many people on /r/anime were talking about how good the HF route was and I couldn't bear to wait for the movies to find this out for myself. No fucking regrets. And now I will wait painfully for October with the rest of you for my holy grail. I hate waiting. But I fucking love Kirei.

>>156072185
>>156072147
>>156072118
>>156072064
>>156072022
>>156071997
>>156071959
>>156071920
Is this harem anime

>>156072182
Somehow that's even worse than the secondaries that started with Zero since you missed the fuckton of references Extra has.

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>>156072102
>you have to be 18 to post here.
He isn't wrong. You don't read fate for porn or PLOT or powerlevels. You read fate for seafood analogies and cooking SoL.

>>156068181
>Is this literally the only good entry in this entire franchise once you take off the nostalgia goggles?

No

Needs more female Masters

>>156072216

see
>>156072102
>>156072059

>>156072224
It's not Ike I wanted to play it. The game itself was a present and the plot/world seemed intesting so i started from the beginning to watch

>>156068181
Yes.
anyone telling you anything else is a delusional manchildren who probably plays fate grand order.

>>156069386
>Implying Irisviel 's mere presence on the screen isn't fappable

>>156072234
They had there chance with fate/extra last encore and fate/grand order but didnt take it. Enjoy your male/Saber face duo forever

>>156072371
At least Mashu isn't a saberface

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>>156072371
>>156072234
Granted it's an ova

>>156069386
Fujoshi aren't normal people anon

Only good thing out of this shit YA tier franchise are the djs (hentai or not).
Still gotta read the source to enjoy those though.
Almost everyone else writes better than Nasu though, that's a given.
But the universe and base character types he created is a good canvas.
Also, zero doesn't have shitty sex scenes, which as lowbrow as it is, I enjoy.
HF > UBW > Zero >>>>>>>> F

>>156072419
I probably would have enjoyed the fuck out of Fate/Otome, I enjoyed the ova a lot.

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>>156073117
>which as lowbrow as it is, I enjoy.
Nasu written h-scenes are even better when machine translated.

Why is there such conflicting opinions for the Fate VNs? Some people say they are good, some others day they are absolute shit.

>>156073405
Wow it's almost as if different people have different opinions.

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>>156073405
>why do people have differing views on something?

>>156073117
I guess the reason they won't make it is because they think women don't buy stuff and merchandise that comes with it

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>>156073323
>mfw I don't see any changes in the writing aside from the grammatical mistakes
Truly the epitome of writing.

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>>156068181

>>156071300
>168 hours
Wew, nigga. How?

I got all the tiger stamps, listened to all the dialogue and even read Heaven's Feel twice and its still only around 50 hours. And I read slow as fuck.

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>>156073497
>Truly the epitome of writing.
I am pretty sure any machine translation would sound like this.

>>156073638
WITH VOICE ACTING

>>156073777
>listened to all the dialogue

>>156068776
anti-FGO faggots that started shitting up everything because they're too retarded to play spin-offs for new content.

THE NAME BACK TO BACK

>>156073405
Well, it's pretty bad literature.
But it's another form of "anime" media.
So depending on what part of it you enjoy over the other the most, it's either good or bad.
I enjoy VNs for their weeb qualities, but I cannot say the same for most LNs for example since I think more of them in the traditional literature sense.

>>156073486
But I thought the Otome/Fujo market was super stronk.
That aside, I think it's more likely that TM has decided they have built a dedicated audience based on the standard set by the VN, deviating from that is probably not for consideration, we know how stubborn or conservative 11s tend to be with these kind of business.

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Why was Zero Anime's marketing and merch prolific in every field EXCEPT figures?

>>156073638
Might have had to do with going through every choice option along with the bad ends and not skipping through parts previously read.

>>156068181
fate zero is only good if you are a butthurt gillfag like me

>>156074443
>But I thought the Otome/Fujo market was super stronk.
Not back in 2004.

>>156071285
Motivation to learn Japanese

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I like Zero because all the Saber bully.

>>156071554
>over simple criticism
>justified criticism

I mean, you're entitled to your right to feel it's bad, but doesn't actual critique need like an actual point? You kind of just said, "it's really shit because all these parts of the story are shit; that's why it's shit."

Like at least put some effort into it if you're going to be this caustic about it.

>>156068181
>good entry in this entire franchise
lol
fate/tards

>>156068181
No, Stay Night (VN) was legitimately better in almost every way.

Everything else in Fate though, bar comedy stuff like Carnival Phantasm and Hollow Ataraxia, is really not worthwhile and only shits up the lore, with nowhere near the same characters and story.

>>156068650
Real canon only. Shitty doujin poorly written and badly draw games need to go to a fanfiction or fanwork thread.

>>156068992
Mahoyo trilogy was never a certain thing. Nasu only said he might write two other parts, but he never said he would.

>>156068679
Not while FGO is a thing.

>>156068181
>Fate
>good

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>>156068935
It's an ancient doujin game. It's fans were mostly dead or just liked it because of Melty Blood (which has always been bigger than Tsukihime. That's why Kohaku in the nip fandom is the one of MB). He's beginning to promote it as a derivated of Fate to get more fans.

Melty Blood serious manga is an "FGO spinoff story" enforced by Nasu. While Roa is the villain of Edmond Dantes' CD drama where he avenges Father Faria's death from the people who imprisoned him. The reason why he wants to finish Tsukihime R (more a reboot than a remake) is because he wants Arc in FGO.

>>156076932
kys

>>156073865
>spin-offs
Hahahaha no, I wish. FGO is the new big thing for Type-Moon, it has retarded levels of story importance thanks to simple money reasons.

>new content
You meant THE ONLY new content they'll be putting out for a good fucking while.
It's trash now.

>>156072419
Fragments has Elsa (was that her name?) as Arash's Master and Manaka.
Plus don't forget Misaya in Prototype as Cu's Master.

Nasu and Takeuchi were talking about wanting an animated FGO version with female Master.

>>156077045
Nasu decided to make it central before it got big. He thought only 100k tops would play it, but he still made it super big deal since the beginning (he started writing the story with the conclusion).

>>156077170
That's plain bullshit he feeds fans to look humble and you know it, unless the game was 100% trash (and even then, it was pretty shit at the start), Fate+mobage was always gonna be a huge hit, with how popular that cancer is these days.

>>156077254
They recorded Goetia's and Solomon's battle three years ago, as did King Hassan's lines. Nasu and Takeuchi had no fucking clue it would get so big. They just assumed it would be kind of like Extra where a core of 100k 'die hard TM fans' would get they by. That's why Aniplex let them hire a literally WHO? company as developers like DW. Because they assumed it would be niche-y. Nasu pretty much stated recently only a minority of the players is familiar with TM older works and less than a 20% played the VN. I assume they got the info from the surveys they take.

>>156068181
>Six years later
>There is STILL F/Z shitposting
Why?

>>156068181
Nah, it's better than stay/night for sure but the best thing to come from the franchise is Extra

Why did Emiya go from cold, assassin to friendly bro Dad? Grail cancer?

>>156077357
Sure, which is exactly why they're appealing to that audience.
Secondaries and newfags, mobage bandwagoners who only care for waifus, etc.
Regardless it doesn't matter how much of the playerbase read the original VN, 20% is actually quite a lot. Fate has had a ton of exposure through other mediums over the last years, it was always gonna attract a huge audience and the jewish overlords at the top saw that.
Hell, even if Nasu was a completely clueless dumbass, it was still a waste for him to use up good ideas on this schlock.

>>156077443
>Extra
Kill yourself. It's by far the worst.

>>156077526
Fate route is free on mobile.

Nasu is a clueless idiot about this. He wanted to make some rpg browser game instead. Takeuchi suggested a mobage.

>>156077526
>mobage bandwagoners who only care for waifus,
That's not truth. Read the interview, both Nasu and DW developer knew they couldn't fuck around too long, and needed to change the story because the fanbase was going to drop them after Septem fiasco. The game grew because it gained fame in Japan of being well written and exciting story-wise, unlike any other Mobage. Not because of any gameplay feature or its garbage gacha rates. In fact, the popularity exploded after Camelot.

It's not like FE:H which is indeed this: a minimal effort waifu collector. Sony was surprised (pleasantly) about the profits they got from it.

>>156077535
Nah man just listen to that groovin ost

>>156077587
Price is irrelevant, and I assumed you meant read the full VN.

A browser game would probably be just as shit, but with less obvious money-grabbing and would've made them less cash. Still, the whole thing was doomed the moment they decided to do something based heavily on Servants, without good or memorable human characters. Servants are gimmicky shit, and other than Saber they were easily inferior to humans in FSN. Not to mention the ridiculous scale of the conflict. It was always unsalvageable, but being a profitable mobage means they won't move the fuck on and do something good again.

>>156077486
Did you pay attention watching Zero at all?

>>156077486
First mindbreak made him into mister murder 1 to save 1000 edgelord, grail mindbreak and Einzbern butthurt left him with nothing but his attempts to make up for wrecking Shirou's life.

>>156077715
It still appeals heavily to those people, they're a core part of the audience. Even those who want lots of story are half in it for the waifus.
And the whole "it got better" argument fucking sucks, it doesn't excuse that they obviously didn't care enough to make a fully engaging story, or that Nasu only came up with the beggining and end until he realized that was a really stupid thing to do.

>>156077743
>thing was doomed the moment they decided to do something based heavily on Servants,
In your opinion. Servants are the best feature of Fate.

> Servants are gimmicky shit, and other than Saber they were easily inferior to humans in FSN.
Most popular female character in FSN is a Servant (Saber). Most popular male character in FSN is a Servant (Archer). They aren't 'gimmicky', he focused to write those two. Avenger is a Servant and he's easily the best character in FHA too.

I'm not sure why you constantly try to shit on FGO because it doesn't suit your tastes. The majority prefers Servants over Masters. If you wanna read about crusty mages, there are other works for that.

>>156077869
But the story is the best Nasu's written since KnK.

Question: if F/Z takes place in a different universe from the VN, where does the UBW anime take place?

>>156078014
>Universe
This is an exaggeration. All takes place on Fate universe/franchise. The small differences and divergences are smoothed out when they hit 100 years timelock.

Tsukihime, on the other hand, takes place on a different branch.

>>156078014
In the same timeline, same as the HF movies.

F/Z is an outstanding anime. Possibly the best modern anime since at least Big O.

F/SN on the hand is a bore. Characters are bland and writing can't make them even remotely interesting. UBW Route was the only one that had something going for it, but it had the misfortune of having the worst tsundere in the anime history.
Even the new anime couldn't save all that shit from its mediocrity.

Say all shit you want about F/Z. At least it has memorable scenes and characters you could actually give a shit about.
Kamen Rider Ryuki is the proper F/SN and it'll stay that way.

>>156077919
Wow, do you unironically think the Servant characters in FSN were better than Shirou, Rin, Kotomine, or Illya? Average FGO player, I guess.

I mentioned Saber, Archer is nothing but a component to Shirou's character, popular thanks to his design and attitude. And that's why most Servants are popular, Nasu doesn't need to go in-depth or make creative stories that flesh them out when he can just re-purpose existing myths to fit the Nasuverse, while adding a couple of tropey anime traits on top.

The new audience prefers Servants, because that's the premise that gets you into Fate, before you actually read FSN and realize they're not the focus at all. That's why FGO is essentially pandering to those people, and why it makes loads of money through "gimmicks". And believe me, I would, but thanks to FGO the only new content without a full Servant-boner coming out is el-Melloi Case Files. After that's over, that'll be it, Servants are the face of Type-Moon now, completely missing what made their earlier successes good.

>>156077957
Just no. Don't even compare something like KnK to this shit, FSN is easily better than most of it.

>>156078083
>>156078093
Wait, now I'm even more confused. UBW and HF are different timelines, right?

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>>156071993

Sakura's were like the only ones that didn't have the same tropes, it was actually two people who wanted to do each other without the virginal crap.

The only thing that ruined it was Nasu putting the implications of Sakura being in the shadow into them and making Shirou have that vaguely homicidal talk the first scene. The next two scenes were

He makes up for it with her scene in Hollow, where the two have very intimate, casual sex. Shirou massaging her tummy about made the scene. Probably the best of the Hollow ones in being as close to two people in an established relationship, rather than a trope.

Rin's had humor, but then Shirou went full Shiki when he was doing just fine with the foreplay, which made me sad he went full rapist. The Hollow one was funny and nice, but almost too comedic. Good to finally have Rin be completely honest for more than a minute.

Saber's second one in FSN was okay, but had too much of the "Saber is this holy being, so pure" stuff Shirou always does. Best way to ground lovemaking is to make the partners actually enjoy their time together, which again, the Hollow one did much better. So Sakura's was the best.

>>156078418
I agree Sakura's were easily the best in FSN, but hers in HA sucked ass. Only good thing was that she got to share Rider's.

What is the non-H version of HF like? What does it do with the tohsaka sex dream and the penis worms?

>>156078180
>Shirou
He wants to become a Hero and has a Heroic Spirit/Guardian self. So yes, it's pivotal to his development.

>Illya and Rin
They became Servants. Well, Illya the loliconpandering version did.

>Kotomine
He's only good because he's a foil to Shirou, on his own doesn't work until he's a contrast.

FSN is the story about a normal redhead (with an emptiness defect) struggling with his ideals and way of life to be a hero to save people and seek his own sense of happiness, whether he's recognized by the Throne or not. He is acknowledged in Last Episode to be larger than life 'a star'. In UBW, this is also brought up. HF serves to contrast of a path not taken.

It's funny because out of all Fate works, FGO is one that addresses the same points of FSN with a focal character with the reverse development. Nasu did say it was going to complete a narrative from FSN. FGO is the story of a Heroic Spirit (with an emptiness defect) who was always a Heroic Spirit struggling with his ways of life to become a person and save the world. Just like Saber and Archer routes are ways to explore Shirou's life and ideals, the orders serve the same shit with this one.

FGO is the most similar to FSN narrative themes from all of Fate works. You just don't like it because you've never read it. The emphasis are on Servants because they are foils to the narrative exploration.

We don't know how part 2 will play, so there could be a focus shift.

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>>156078477

The one in Rider's Eclipse wasn't Sakura, it's the Sakura that Rider imagines in her head would be domming her and Shirou if they had a threesome together, notice that Sakura doesn't have a fetish for bloodplay. That is all Medusa.

If I could explain it in a way that is easiest to understand, that Sakura is like the cognitions that people conjure in their Palace that you see in Persona 5 if you have played that. Her power works like that. In reality, all Medusa is doing is sucking blood and masturbating. The same when she turned herself into Rin in HF. It's like she can thrust people into her own Palace when they are asleep. Though I guess Sakura can do that with her Imaginary Number Space in a way too.

And Sakura's actual Eclipse was great, Shirou actually plays with her tits, fondle her belly and is pretty intimate. The biggest thing that annoyed me for FSN, is that he doesn't bother to actually fondle the heroine with the biggest breasts, when he constantly thinks about them? No wonder she asked him if he hates chicks with large racks.

>>156068181
>written by hack writer
>even original authors diss it off
>a decent studio made it deliverable with fancy animation
>good

No.

>>156079057
You're thinking of Kara no Kyoukai

>>156078180
Servants have been the focus of Fate spinoffs before FGO. Apocrypha was all about them, Proto (before FSN was made) only had three relevant Masters (the MC and the antagonists) and Fragments is similar. Strange Fake has some Master focus but again the main dish are Servants. Do you think Masters are as popular as Servants in Extra/Extella/CCC? (Specially Extella?). FGO didn't start shit, so stop pretending it shot your dog.

Fate was going to be about the Heroic Spirits on the draft prototype version anyway. As another anon pointed out earlier, FGO is the spiritual heir of FSN themes. If FSN explores an empty normal guy's struggles on the path of a heroic (or inglorious) fate for the sake of the people he wants to save, but gives them up in most scenarios for the sake of his happiness. FGO explores an empty heroic spirit's struggles on the path of being a normal guy for the sake of his normal happiness which he gives up to save humanity. They even have similar color scheme to clue you in. Masters and Servants only exist to mirror those ideals and philosophies they possess.

Could it have been written outside the mobage cashgrab formula? Sure, but FSN could have been written outside the cheap eroge VN formula too. Takeuchi just told Nasu to do those because they needed money too. If was up to Nasu, he would have written novels like KnK on both cases.

>>156079128
It's okay to be in denial /a/non. F/Z is known to be an overrated piece.

>>156078862
Why the hell is it relevant that they later decided to cash in on characters' designs and make them low effort Servants?
And no, Archer's eternal suffering is not inherently tied to being a Servant. Counter Guardians don't appeal to secondaries and newfags in the same way, because they're not cool historical figures battling each other. Archer could've been a man with any other eternal curse that forced him to betray his ideals, and Shirou's story would've been the same.

Solomon's story is perfectly fine, but the fact is, he's not actually a major character for most of it, nor does he have as much screentime as the actual protagonists. The story's themes might've ended up centered around him, but the fact that it was a mobage with a self-insert protagonist and that the authors didn't even care about half of the story dragged it down.
And even ignoring all that, a single good character leaves it nowhere close to FSN, nor does it excuse the ridiculous Servant pandering for gacha money.

I'll also tell you right now, there will not be a focus shift in part 2, Servants will always be the major characters in FGO because that's what sells.

>>156079341
Don't worry I also don't like F/Z. But what you said exactly describes KnK

>>156079310
All of those spin-offs were trash except for Strange Fake, which also divvies up some time for Masters to nearly the level of Fate/Zero. And most of all, they're spin-offs, they're expected to focus on certain specific things. FGO is clearly treated as a mainline entry, and Nasu's actual main focus, yet it does nothing that his previous best works did right.

Who gives a shit about the draft, they clearly changed it for the better. And as much as you want him to be, Roman was not the main character, nor was he on the screen most of the time.

Both would've likely been better that way, with later anime adaptations, but at least VNs don't force you to go through repetitive mobage gameplay to read short bursts of story, nor do they make you wait for months for new content that may or may not be one of the parts they put effort into.

>>156079390
I think you love this guy too much. I mean he didn't make anything he can call as his own (as in sole creator). Hence he is a hack writer - he is paid to write his style on pre-made ideas.

>>156068181
the visual novel came out three fucking years ago, in what way is that possibly nostalgic?

>>156068181
Having finished the VN, yeah probably. Unless one of the other spinoffs also happens to be great, though I wouldn't know.

>>156079843
Do you have a time machine?

>>156079843
Hello, time traveller-kun!
Fate/stay night is 13 years old now.

>>156079893
lol no they suck, but you're gay if you didn't like Heaven's Feel.

>>156079675
That's entirely your opinion. Some are badly executed because the writers in charge weren't very good. But the concept and idea are fine.

>And as much as you want him to be, Roman was not the main character, nor was he on the screen most of the time.
To Nasu, FGO was Roman's story. It's like FHA, where the SOL scenes were just fitting his desire for being normal. Avenger wasn't in most of them, but it was played as part of what he wanted to see and be involved in. Once he went away, the events, even those that were supposed to be gags like Guda Guda are depressing as fuck with a serious storyline that deals with "moving on" and "coping with loss."

It was his story. Each order he makes a commentary about what happened and learns something from his dialogue with the helpers (from your self insert's eyes). This isn't a VN where you can play him as POV and reach different outcomes, his role I'll say it's a mix of Kiritsugu (the mentor figure and tragic protagonist - he even saved someone who would embrace his philosophy, Mashu, and your self-insert inherits his will), Avenger (for the FHA-central focus) and Shirou (his storyarc). The story and meat underneath FGO are incredibly fitting to the old trio of the franchise. Shirou is a normal human pretending or trying to be larger than life, fighting Heroic Spirits. Roman is a Heroic Spirit pretending to be mundane, filling 'leader' role rather than fighter or Servant one. One wants to save everyone, but finds his answer (in the best case) is to embrace a normal sense of happiness. The other wants to be happy like a normal person, but his conclusion (only one for this is not a VN with multiple routes) is that he has to give up this freedom to save everyone.

I would naturally would have wanted Shirou and Roman to meet, but someday I hope Nasu makes a crossover. He always reuses his characters.

>>156080016
I liked UBW more.

>>156080162
UBW is just exposition for HF

>>156080133
I definitely agree it was Roman's story in Nasu's eyes, but he didn't care enough to even write half of the story. I'd say a good part of that was that the self-insert was forced due to it being a mobage, which just adds to my pile of complaints on that (that you didn't address).

And once again, one good character does not carry the story, and even he is heavily rooted in his biblical past. They needed more humans and cool mage shit, but that's not what sells.

>>156080376
Nasu wrote the story scenario and started from the ending onwards as the guide for all the writers to follow it: each event was carefully placed and thought about it. Nasu's inspiration was Maaya Sakamoto's Scrap which Roman quotes in the conclusion (and he wanted to use it as the game OP song but he wasn't allowed due to copyright). I affirm that every main order explores and challenges Roman's ways and ideals: Your self-insert has no ideals, and Mashu's are all taken from Roman (who she seeks advice from and guidance) so in the end when she's conflicted is because she's borrowing Roman's ideals. Even Lev affirmed in the end, he, not you or Mashu, was the reason why Chaldea didn't fall apart. The philosophies clashing in FGO are Roman's vs Goetia's. I did address it when I said he had Kiritsugu/Avenger role mixed there, so he is not a POV character as Shirou in a VN.

Mage lore is heavily explored in FGO because Solomon is their common ancestor. It's just not the focus because what was in tension was Solomon's wish to not be a Heroic Spirit and the theme is a "journey to our roots/history." There's a lot we learned about the magi origin and why they could be fucked up in relation to what Goetia did for his ritual. The Clock Tower inner fighting seems to play a future role in part 2, with all the foreshadowing we have so far.

>>156080376
On addition, before I forget. The tease pre FGO (Clocktower 2015) about a worldline's Lev's suicide had heavy on magi storyline. FGO does explore magi far more than you think. Or at least gives Case Files author a minefield of lore wealth to choose to sink his teeth into. This is thanks to the Caster-bias FGO has. Clock Tower and magi are heavily featured in the Servants' backstories when they were alive. Helena's and Holmes' for example. You're too quick to dismiss it.

>>156069110
The Welsh aren't English

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Chaldea slice of life when

>>156080728
Writing the climax parts and the start only is ridiculous no matter how you put it.
You did not address the inherent flaws of a mobage with repetitive gameplay and long waits for chapters that might be shit, which a VN or LN would not suffer from in the slightest (inb4 "oh but I wouldn't be so attached to the characters if I didn't spend a year with them", fuck off, you would if they wrote the story properly and you read it all in quick succession).

No, it's not the focus because it doesn't sell, and as you said, everything new about mages has to be directly tied to fucking Servants, only exploring their relation to actual historical figures and as various tools to wank Solomon further as the super duper Grand Caster, because that's all they want to do now.

>>156080912
Hopefully never ever.

>>156078180
>The new audience prefers Servants, because that's the premise that gets you into Fate,

The audience has always adored Servants as a concept.

Most people on her won't admit it, but old fans always quarreled and argued about their preferred heroic spirits, that was a big part of the fandom, why do you think fanfiction always has someone create their own grail war, it's a template that was always attractive.

It has nothing to do with being an oldie or newbie, Servants have been a big part, part and parcel with the intrigue of mage society and the war itself.

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>>156068181
This Enkidu.

This is not Enkidu >>156034359 remember that.

>>156082308
Of course it was, they add flavor and personality to the franchise. But never the core of it, and they were not more fleshed out or relevant than the human characters. Now it's literally just Servants.

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>>156079893
>Unless one of the other spinoffs also happens to be great

Story time.

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>>156082488

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>>156082528

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>>156082576

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>>156082619

>>156082308
This. That guy sounds like he's living in a parallel dimension they gave a shit about the Masters. They only gave a shit as a self-inserts to fuck their favorite servant.

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>>156082662

>>156082695
kek, if you're a secondary maybe.

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>>156082702

Is there anything more cancerous than Zero secondaries?

>>156082308
This, it's cool seeing a part of your culture and your very own identity in your obscure jap porn novel, it nice to see the heroes of your country, the ones that you studied in school or seen monuments of in a total different light. Sure as hell it's more appealing than random mages and vampires

>>156082448
>Now it's literally just Saber
ftfy

That bitch is the worst cancer of the franchise

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>>156082747

>>156082448
>But never the core of it
According to who? You? Nasu has a completely different idea of what the core was. And yes, it was years before FGO. Sounds like you're mad he shat on your precious headcanon.

>>156082749

>>156082488
>>156082528
>>156082576
>>156082619
>>156082662
>>156082702
>>156082747
Fate/kaleid secondaries

>>156082749
GOfags

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>>156082779

>>156082805
Fate Kaleid wasn't pretentious chuunishit like fate.

>>156082739
Only if you're a newfag. Half of Rin's fanbase were always girls who used her as otome heroine to fuck Archer or Cu.

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>>156082827

>>156082805
Kaleid secondaries never made any sense to me. It's literally made for fans of the established franchise, so I'm not sure why anyone would bother with the series if they weren't familiar with the source.

>>156082781
The main characters of a VN are not "headcanon", they're a clear fact to anyone who's actually read it, secondary-kun.
I don't even have anything to say if you missed the clear shift of focus towards Servant from Apocrypha onwards in order to pander to the masses.
Extra was still on the fence, but at least all the Servants had original Master characters.

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>>156082883

>>156082839
Zero is less pretentious chuunishit than a lot Nasu has written. Want to see chuuni? Your precious Tsukihime is a prime example of edgy chuushit. Shiki is a Deviantart tier protagonist.

Prisma is pedophile pandering ruining a favorite character of the franchise to lobotimize her for fantasies.

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>>156082916

>>156082850
Pffft, this is how you make it obvious that you're an actual newfag jumping on /fgog/ memes. Rin has always had a huge male fanbase, second only to Saber. Same for Illya. Shirou and Kotomine's characters are constantly praised and secondaries who call Shirou a self-insert are waved off.

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>>156082952
It just dawned on me how long this actually is.

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>>156082988

>>156082895
>Muh VN
You seem obsessed with this when Nasu said FSN main dish was Arturia looking for the Holy Grail. The rest is pretty much filler in his eyes.
That's why he treats it as filler when he needs to address FSN in his multiverse. Only Arturia's stuff/Fate route ends up mattering.

Nasu said that the core of Fate franchise is a Master's meeting and departure with the Servant. That is the core to Nasu. No Masters. In this, FGO has a lot of focus on saying goodbye to Servants, as did CCC which are the two works he's always said were his most important ones.

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>>156083018

>>156082883
Because it's softcore loli porn.

@156083041

Not giving you a (You), back to your general with that weak filler bait.

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>>156083062

>>156082985
>had a huge female fanbase
Fixed it for you. ArcherxRin was voted as the second most popular Fate pairing in 2005-2006, by the way. After SaberxShirou (number one). If you weren't a fucking newfag, you would now about the survey.

Who do you think voted them? Self-insert Rinfags? No, it was the female fanbase. Because Rin is the default otome protagonist.

>>156068181
Yes.

>>156083138
Rin was #4 in the 2012 poll, that sure as hell wasn't just female fans.

I don't even know why I should be arguing to prove that "male Rinfags are a thing", you're fucking retarded. Lurk for 6 months.

>>156083065
There is literally nothing wrong with loli.

Literally only faggots and plebs dislike it.

>>156083243
Archer was #3, Rin and Archer always are near each other in polls because they let you pick two characters (or three in last one). I'm not saying she only has female fans, but a large chunk of her fanbase are girls who self insert in her. That's why she's the femc and got Gudao out her genderdent.

>>156083097
Saber entry encyclopedia:
>Fate/Stay Night was originally her story.
>The main theme during early development was "a story about the Holy Grail and King Arthur", and it had remained unchanged.
t.Nasu.

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>>156083102

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>>156083423

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>>156083462

>>156083255
Didn't say it was, that's just where Prisma secondaries come from. Ninety percent of 2wei is SoL stuff and half of that is dedicated to Kuro sucking face with other girls. And Silver Links OVAs of coarse.

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>>156083505
The Prisma anime is absolute trash.

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>>156083582

>>156083365
Indeed! I also believe Nero and Waver's proximity, at #14 and #15, is proof of their popularity as a couple. This also means most of Nero's fanbase wishes to become a girl (just as she is a male Emperor who got genderbent), so they self-insert as her in the fapfics where she gets railed by little Waver Velvet. I'm glad we could deduce the majority of these characters' fanbases together, especially since it's so relevant to the original argument about the importance of their roles compared to Servants in Fate/stay Night <3

>>156068181
There were never any good entries into this shitty series. This series is a sign of shit taste of the worst kind.

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>>156083615

>>156071792
>evacuating people before setting off a bomb,
Why shouldn't he if the situation allows for it? Meaningless sacrifices are meaningless. Even if the end justifies the means, that doesn't mean that you should deliberately sacrifice as much as possible. If you can afford let unrelated people escape your onslaught, there's no reason not to do so.

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>>156083655

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>>156083687

>>156083617
I'm sorry you need to shitpost because your flawed and wrong views of the franchise were challenged by facts. Like the chosen comments that Nasu chose to display about why they were chosen: half of them spoke of the ArcherRin pairing. Bang.

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>>156083727

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>>156083766

>>156083734
I'm sorry you missed the part of my post about how all of that is completely irrelevant to the original argument, not to mention that not only females can be Archer/Rin fans, and it certainly wasn't the cause for most of their votes. Bazinga.

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>>156083800

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>>156083839

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>>156083955