Finally got around to watching all of Full Metal Alchemist and

>>155545682
I'm with you on Brotherhood being better.

>>155545682
I also just finished Brotherhood for the first time the other day. It was amazing, 10/10 out of me. Nothing felt wasted, meandered, or pointless. The drama scenes were done tastefully, the plot twists felt realistic. Arakawa's own pen was not outdone in any way by the 2003 version. I was a huge, huge fan of it back in early 2004 as well, so I don't say that lightly.

>>155545682
OP here

>Brothergood had better Wrath (I fucking hated original's wrath he was an annoying little shit but so was Selem being pride so I just think Bredley is the better character than either of them)
>Original had better Sloth
>Original had more interesting Lust
>Brotherhood had better Greed with the whole prince thing
>Brotherhood had a more interesting Envy but original's envy being Hoenheims son was pretty cool still I liked brotherhood's envy more
>Brotherhood had the better main bad guy. Didn't really care for Dantae
>Brotherhood had the better ending although I didn't like either desu
>I liked the Xiang stuff in Brotherhood
>Brotherhood had the better scar imo but I still liked him in the original
>Gluttony was an idiot in both so that doesn't matter
>Brotherhood had the better Hoenhiem
>Brotherhood had better Pinacho
>Brotherhood had better Winry
>Brotherhood had Olivier who was awesome
>I liked the whole fort briggs thing so good for brotherhood
>Original with Shao tucker and nina was... weird. I liked it being open and closed more in brotherhood instead of dragging that on. Should have kept Shao dead.
>Original had better origin for the humonculie.
>I liked "father" becoming a god more and that was the point of him doing what he did more than Dantae's reasons
>Ed giving up alchemy is better than him going to another world that shit was dumb
>HATE that in the original Ed and Winry go fucking nowhere. Didn't like how Brotherhood did it either but at least there was something there.

>>155546890
>original's envy being Hoenheims son was pretty cool

I thought it was completely fucking retarded

>>155547241
really? I just thought it explained why he hates him so much. And I liked that they came from failed human transmutations more than them just being emotions from Father I did however like father more than Dantae so that's weird.

>>155546890

i agree with you mostly, only

>brotherhood had a better scar

i appreciated the more angst-y scar of the first, but the scene with winry and scar in brotherhood was pitch perfect 10/10 would have feels for both of them again

>original with shou tucker was... weird

i preferred how the original handled it, it had so much more weight than brotherhood. to me, it gave heftier weight to the consequences of human transmutation (in all of it's forms)

>didn't like ed/winry ending in brotherhood

out of curiousity, what would you have done differently?

2003 is one the best animated show I've ever watched whle Brotherhood is merely great.

The production values of 2003 are much better, as are how several of the major plot points are handled.

God tier OST too.

>>155547438
Yeah that scene was great

but to answer your question about Ed and Winry idek I just found that scene on the train station so fucking awkward and anticlimactic. "well... bye!" yep. See ya bud. The whole lol ed is a scientist and uses scientific words to describe his feelings xDDD and winry saying no i'll give 100% uh no like 70? 80? was kind of cringy to me. I'd love them to actually have gotten married and shown being together instead of them saying they will. But that's not even the big thing. Fucking Mustang and Hawkeye! Nothing happened in either original nor brotherhood! What the fuck was with that shit?

And original's anime ending AND movie ending was the worst Ed and Winry. Both times she's just like well he's gone and I may never see him again. OH well.

>>155547775
what plot lines were better in original?

>>155545682
Brotherhood is more "fun", it has better animation, a more coherent plot and has more comedic moments. But it really lacks in cinematography, being very basic when it portaits an scene without any subtlety. And really not adding anything to the source material aside from animation.
I also find its portray of war really simplistic, being reduce to "killing is bad", while 2003 shows war in a more realistic way. Brotherhood also fucked up the feeling of journey that both 2003 and the manga portait very well, in Brotherhood you just jump from one plot related place to another.
Also, I think all the deaths in Brotherhood lacked impactf, by not spending time with certain characters with sudden deaths (Nina, Hughes) or killing characters wich death you see coming a mile away (Greed, Hoenhiem, that chinese old man), honestly -while not a death -the moment shocked me the most was Lan Fan cutting her own arm. 2003 stablished better Nina and Hughes and expanded their relationship with the Eldrics, making their deaths more meaningful than even the manga itself.
I will I don't deny that Brotherhood (and by extension the manga) have some good parts but they felt too simplistic and idealistic most of the time, making it just a shonen with a goverment conspiracy. While 2003 has some issues. it tried to do a more compelling story that makes its audience question their moral and beliefs. Lastly, I really disliked Mei Chang, she was an annoying brat.

>>155547960
Literally all of them before it went to make its own story.

>>155547775

my nig nog

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwzAEwzUI8k

>>155548155
original handled winry and ed terribly at the end. The anime ending and the movie ending. Both were "oh i'll never see Ed again? Oh well." Like she didn't even care. But I like romance in my anime's so that might just be me being a sissy with a soft spot for love.

>>155548638
Winry and Ed weren't really a thing in 2003. But yes, their reunion in The Conqueror of Shambala was rushed and silly. The whole movie was rushed because the animation team literally were planing a longer movie or even more than one movie but production said "nope". No wonder it turned out so shitty. I don't think it would have been that good even then but it wouldn't have been so awful.

>>155545682
More like Fullmetal Alchemist: Boringhood

>>155548155
>I also find its portray of war really simplistic, being reduce to "killing is bad", while 2003 shows war in a more realistic way.

Brotherhood's war came due to a neighboring nation promising autonomy to Ishvaal if they rebelled against Amestris then reneging when the state alchemists showed that they shouldn't be fucked with giving a good reason for the war (nationalism and external pressure) all while showing the reason why Amestris gave so much power to Father.

03's war was because "our religion hates alchemy!" as well as Amestris just killing churchheads to incite it for their rituals

I don't think 03's war all that realistic

I WAY prefer the original anime because it tells a more deeper, more character-driven story. Also the conflicts are much more real and personal. I even like the ending, minus the movie. It's much more bittersweet and ties together the themes of sacrifice. That said the movie also makes the racism allegories much more clear. Like yeah, Amestris is the fictional equivalent of Nazi Germany.

The manga is just shounen garbage with cookie cutter characters and poorly explored themes. If you like shounen garbage, then you will also like Brotherhood.

>>155548855
Are you kidding me? Ed and Winry were definitely a thing in both 2003 and brotherhood. They were heavily hinted at and implied that there was something between the 2. They clearly cared for each other.

>>155548917
it was more exciting than the original actually.

>>155545682

Ah... that moment when Alphonse gives his brother a hand against Fatha~

It truly has the better ending and overall closure for all the characters involved.

>>155548957
killing people for religious reasons sounds pretty realistic to me...

>>155548957
>killing people because of religious beliefs isn' realistic
Yeah, because we never ever have done that.
It also was something set up by Dante, there wasn't a real Ishvalian rebellion at the end

>>155549120
They hinted both Ed and Al but none of them made a move.

>>155549152

It depends on if you find character/emotion more exciting (original) or battle shounen more exciting (brotherhood).

Honestly the only thing bad about Brotherhood is how they rushed a lot of the stuff that was already covered in the 2003 version. Otherwise Brotherhood is fucking better because 2003 is lolbones tier after the plot split.

>>155549093
I hated that Ed went to the other world and Al just forgets everything that happened for the past 4 years. Ed losing Alchemy was a lot better.

And you know I never caught that comparison to Nazi Germany until now but it's so clear now that I think of it. Seeing it differently now.

Dante using everyone else as a tool for a selfish gain that's as retarded as fucking immortality is a hundred times better than 'villain who wants to attain godhood #3209874

>>155549176
yeah Brotherhood definitely had the better ending. I felt a lot more satisfied with it.

File: dense motherfucker.png (90KB, 482x315px)

90KB, 482x315px

>>155549305
>And you know I never caught that comparison to Nazi Germany until now but it's so clear now that I think of it.
nigga how

>>155545682
There's a OVA of the 2003 version that takes place after the film: Apparently, Ed never leaves our world and stays there well over his senior years, living in some apartment in Japan. His adventures are famous and now there are films about it. It's also implied that he married the Winry of our world, because one of his grandchildren looks like her.

>>155549229
I actually had more feels moments during brotherhood. Both had their moments but I had more emotions during brotherhood.

>>155549347
holy shit fuck you for making me remember that existed

2003 had a more tied together narrative, where the usage of alchemy and the plot arcs of the characters being focused around sacrifice and shit like "oh I did all this and got nothing out of it wew equivalent exchange rite Ed?"

the origin behind the homunculi in 2003 was better than brotherhood's "just a piece of Dark Hoenheim"

>>155549388
Because of who?
inb4 Greed

>>155549347
wat

>liking over-the-top shitty overreaction humor
2003 > Brotherhood. The fucking awful humor in Brotherhood (and the manga) ruined it for me. You don't need to have fucking gags every couple of seconds.

Also, Nakamura is a better animator than Kameda.

>>155549231
that's why they rushed past that stuff though. They assumed if you're watching brtherhood you've already seen the original. Which is stupid yes but that's their rational I guess.

Oh like how if you never watched the original you have no idea who the butcher serial killer is or that weird wormy guy in charge of that mining town who hates Ed but was never explained why he hates him in brotherhood. The mining town is only in the original and the human butcher serial killer too.

>>155549427
>the origin behind the homunculi in 2003 was better than brotherhood's "just a piece of Dark Hoenheim"
Except not really, there should've been WAY more homunculi if that's how they're really created.

>>155545682
>this thread again

>>155549093
>calls the manga shounen garbage
>doesn't explain why

I don't even know what you are talking about character-wise besides Ed, Scar, Lust and maybe Rose they pretty much left everyone else in the background. Brotherhood actually dives into not just the characters main cast or no they make Al have a larger role and even go as far as to develop the state of Amestris itself.

The Nazi allegory is handled better in Brotherhood since you have a nation in crisis flocking to a "father" figure who promise grandiose plans to not only get them out but also dominate everyone.

>>155549465
Because Brotherhood was literally made to milk FMA popularity with the manga about to conclude. I would respect Brotherhood if they took a few more years, and a better director, to make the series.

>>155549347
I hated that OVA. The writers pretty much destroyed all the ambiguity of Shamballa's ending with that shit. The movie left some room for Ed and Al to maybe find a way to return home. But nope, Ed is over 100 years old, along with Al, has given up on even trying to go back, and married alternative Winry, because fuck you, fans.

>>155549495
dark hoenheim created the homunculus in the first place because to him, he first needs to get rid of his cardinal sins before he gets god status.

did you even pay attention when you watched?

>>155549582
Their leader is called THE FUHRER. It does not get any more obvious than that.

>>155549597
No, I'm talking about the 2003's homunculi. If they were really created every time some jackass tried to bring someone back to life with alchemy, there would be hundreds of them, not seven. It just doesn't make sense.

>>155549465
>who the butcher serial killer is
I thought the bit with him early on in 2003 was anime original. I don't remember it being in the manga, but it's been a while since I read it. Most of the anime original stuff early on in 2003 was pretty good though.

>>155549305

Al forgetting everything was just perfect imho. Edward leaving the world is a type of death, his life for his brother's life, its very bittersweet and shows how far he has come. Losing alchemy just isn't as interesting or meaningful, especially since most people don't have alchemy anyway and the story is over.

The fact that Alphonse cannot remember the last 4 years or whatever also leaves open the nature of what, exactly, was Alphonse during the series. Or what he is by the end. The original ending is more thought provoking, imho.

>>155549645
>It just doesn't make sense.

sorry to hear about your inability to understand basic reasoning

>>155549645
>hundreds of them
Why would someone do human transmutation if is something fobbidden and dangerous?
They also mentioned that there were other hommunculi before, another Lust and another Sloth.

>>155549645
>human transmutation said to be the most complex form of alchemy known to man
>requires in depth knowledge of alchemy and an understanding of the components behind the human body
>requires perhaps even more extensive research and experiments just to devise the transmutation circle required to preform human transmutation if the person can't even get their hands on prior knowledge via a book or some papers
>is already extremely forbidden, so forbidden that barely anyone knows how to preform it despite the fact that people know that such a thing is possible.
>the only reason Ed and Al even knew about it is because Hoenheim was basically the creator of human transmutation and recorded his research onto paper.

>hurrr durrr should be hundreds of them, doesn't make sense

>>155549703
>sorry to hear about your inability to understand basic reasoning
Are we talking about two different things with you just taking single statements out of context? Do you really think that only seven people in recent history have tried to bring a human back to life with alchemy, the magical science that can literally turn lead into gold? THAT is what does not make sense.

>>155549749
>>155549875
I don't know man, why would anyone ever kill someone, something that is forbidden and dangerous? Desperate times call for desperate measures, and there are plenty of desperate people in the world. And I'm expected to believe that two random little kids were part of an elusive group of only 8 people who actually tried to bring someone back from the grave? Really? No, that shit does not make sense. I'm sorry, that is not something I believe would happen.

>>155549451
nah not really greed.

But like Al thanking pinacho for all she's done, actually I just like Pinacho in general so there was a few moments with her. When Winry could have shot Scar but couldn't. Al confronting ed and asking him if he was a fake memory when Ed just wanted to ask him if he blamed him.

>>155549464
I actually stopped watching Brotherhood after like the third episode becuase he always does le chibi angry face even when the tone is supposed to be serious. Glad im not the only who thought this.

>>155549932
I literally just got done explaining to you how human transmutation is so complex and forbidden that even if someone knew that human transmutation was possible, they would have no possible means of immediately preforming it unless they knew someone else that had that kind of knowledge or if they spent like half their life experimenting.

What about that do you find so confusing?

>>155550140
Because being forbidden and complex doesn't stop random jackasses from TRYING.

>>155549553

>The Nazi allegory is handled better in Brotherhood

Nah, because the real implications of the genocide and the anger and wounds it rightfully causes are glossed over, with the narrative approval of Miles and Scar's ""redemption"" (ugh). And there's something satisfying about literally smacking you with Hitler. Like yes, the Amestrian soldiers are Nazis. People like Miles are collaborators. People like Scar don't need a reason to defend themselves or to fight violently.

As for characters, all the Homunculi are much more interesting and developed, as is Hohenheim and all tie with the themes of accepting death, which is exactly what started Edward off on this journey to begin with. (Also not half as well explored in Brotherhood, where Edward is much more static).

>>155549932
>And I'm expected to believe that two random little kids were part of an elusive group
Not all the people in that world are alchemist, everything happens in just one country. Most alchemists know what will happen if hey do a human transmutation so they have to be very desperate (Izumi) or being dumb like childs (Ed and Al). Lastly the homunculi need to be eat fragments of the red stone or they will die anyway.

>>155550063
>Al confronting ed and asking him if he was a fake memory when Ed just wanted to ask him if he blamed him.
But that also happened in 2003 and it was better imo.

>>155549465
They did explain that stuff though? They took a while to do it, but the guy from the mining town recapped what happened right when Ed and Al meet up with him, Dr. Marcoh and Mei. There was also a brief explanation given on who Barry and the other guy were by themselves.

>>155549597
WHAT DID HE DO WRONG?!

They never told us that. What was his mistake? What did he get wrong exactly? Wtf was he missing I have to know!

>>155550192
the in-universe rule behind alchemy is that certain shit requires certain circles

even if they tried they wouldn't be able to fucking do it, you can't just draw a random circle and expect it to go your way.

You're convincing me that you're some elaborate troll that's just pretending to be retarded if you continue to keep this up.

>>155549645
I did find the Fuhrer thing weird. Fuck i'm dumb...

>>155550201
>Most alchemists know what will happen if hey do a human transmutation
Except no, because nobody in the story knew a damn thing about what happened afterwards (aside from making an abomination that gets smashed) until like 40 episodes into a 52 episode series.

It's an asspull made by bones. Why the fuck are you defending this shit?

>>155550195
>As for characters, all the Homunculi are much more interesting and developed

only Sloth and Lust are (and maybe Envy)

Greed, Bradley, and Pride are definitely handled better in brotherhood.

>>155549684
wait so was the butcher right...? Was The armor Al not even the real Al and was just Ed's memories put into the armor to be a pseudeo Al? Jesus fucking Christ I didn't even think of that. Al was in the door the whole time...

>>155550313

Different anon but why are you defending Brotherhood where the homunculi are shitty 2d mooks for a generic and forgettable evil whoever?

File: 1472158231347.gif (2MB, 580x326px) Image search: [Google]

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>>155549093
I feel the same, honestly when the end of Brotherhood was nearing I just couldn't take its plot seriously anymore and I was just laughing my ass of at how dumb and ridiculous it progressively got. I also found it really hard to seriously relate to any of the characters in Brotherhood. I didn't even care what happened to Ed and Al beyond the 2/3rd point of Brotherhood. While the 2003 version had me on the edge of my seat all the way through.

I don't think Brotherhood is a bad show though, the OP's/ED's were fantastic and they did an amazing job with the fight-scenes among other things. But the plot and characterization just felt really hollow and soulless to me and that made it an incredibly forgettable experience for me.

I think in the end FMA2003 and Brotherhood both just fundamentally appeal to totally different audiences with different expectations and tastes, even though they are a similar story in broad lines.

>>155550313
>nobody in the story knew a damn thing about what happened afterwards
Everyone knew that would mostly kill you. That is more than enough to make people think twice before trying.

>Why the fuck are you defending this shit?
Because it makes more sense than "I will get rid of my sins, lol I'm still the same ashole"

>dante: I'm a fucking asshole and I'll manipulate the fuck out of everyone cause I wanna live forever
>father: hurr I wanna be god lol

>>155550483
Because even if it's shitty it still makes more sense? It's not supposed to be some deep thing, which is why the 2003 anime doesn't make sense.

It's a shounen anime, it's not fucking art.

'03 was decent. Brotherhood was a generic battle shounen with a "omg epic final battle". Shit sucks

>>155548155
>has more comedic moments
This isn't at all a positive.

original had darker more serious tones and i very much enjoyed how thehHomunculus were born in orginal. sloth being ed and al's mom, wrath being izumi's kid, envy being hohenheims son, etc.
i haven't finished brotherhood but i have enjoyed a lot more moments and i like the fact that it does have more story in the sense that it has way more things happening. like being inside of gluttony's fake gate, the whole country shit with east and west alchemy, etc i assume bones was too worried about adding too many outlandish things in the original.

>>155550515
>Because it makes more sense than "I will get rid of my sins, lol I'm still the same ashole"

what the hell are you talking about? We've been arguing about the 2003 version

did you just jump into this thread without having watched either show and you just read a quick synopsis on the wiki or something?

FMA '03 up until Hughes' death is miles better than Brotherhood because it has actual world building, the first story arcs like Cornello's and Nina's last for more than one fucking episode each and have a bigger impact.

Brotherhood is better at the rest, though '03 is still pretty great in its own right.

>>155550536
>omg epic final battle
Excelent argument, stupid faggot, what about the rest of the show?

>>155550195
I hated the Original's Pride and Wrath. Annoying little shits.

>>155550530
>It's not supposed to be some deep thing

according to fucking who?

>2003 version decides to change the origin behind the homunculi
>"hurrr it's too deep therefore it doesn't make sense durrr"

that's how fucking stupid you sound right now.

>>155549495
>Except not really, there should've been WAY more homunculi if that's how they're really created.
Given Lust (or was it Sloth?) is referred to as the "new Lust", there were.

>>155550647
Rest of the show was straight out of "how to make a battle shounen for dummies". It wasn't terrible, but if have read or watched similar titles, it's boring

>>155550530
>It's not supposed to be some deep thing
i wasn't aware that you directed FMA

>>155550693
Both.

only good parts of 03 was the parts they took from the manga. 03 was Bones labor of love while Brotherhood was retreading old ground so more budget and effort was put in and though that's a point for aesthetics not so much for narrative.

sure both endings weren't good but Father is definitely a more memorable villain than Dante

as for everything else from the politics, characters, writing, and emotions Brotherhood beats it hands down.

>>155550715
Thanks.

>>155550431

>Greed, Bradley, and Pride are definitely handled better in brotherhood.

Bradley is Pride in the original, and I'd say he's equivalent at best. He certainly doesn't make up for the differences in Sloth or Lust.

Wrath is better handled in the original, and more interesting than Salim. Wrath is a child, with the insecurities and neediness of a child and which underlines the connection between homunculi and their humanity. Salim is some generic evil whoever that looks like a child. His childhood is just a cheap gimmick that makes him creepier.

>>155550436

The original anime leaves the question of his nature much more open. At any rate the Alphonse we knew during the series is gone, replaced with the flesh and blood Alphonse of the past, who Edward wanted to restore.

>>155550519
You can choose to simplify it like that, but that's not exactly the truth. Father, or the dwarf in the flask as he really was, didn't want to BE god so much as feel free of being bound by anything, including god. He wanted to possess god as proof that there was nothing left in the universe that could have hold over him or control his destiny, a complex that was born of being beholden to a flask for so long. He also did plenty of manipulating himself (tricking all of Xerxes and the king being one of and the first) even if you don't count what all the homunculi, who were technically part of him, did.

>>155550766
I'm all for his motive being that he just doesn't want to be bound by anything, but taking the literal approach of actually becoming god doesn't quite sit well with me.

>>155550766
>didn't want to BE god so much as feel free of being bound by anything
So he was DIO but less charismatic.

>>155550766

lol even Brotherhood apologists cannot make Father sound interesting.

"oh hes an evil...dwarf in a...flask whose tired of being in a flask wants to control his destiny so he shits out all these generic mooks for some reason"

I love how the original anime had the balls to make the villain just a selfish human who couldn't accept death, much like Edward himself. (Love that they made Hohenheim that much more flawed too, damn he's so much more interesting in the original).

The original anime looks at human nature. Brotherhood looks at shounen asspulls.

Neither Father nor Dante were interesting villains, the Homunculi are where it's at.

>>155549465
>you have no idea who the butcher serial killer is
That's the joke, and it's not like he needs an elaborate origin issue either. The entire part where he meets the Elrics when they are kids is 03-original, Brotherhood didn't skip it because it was never part of the manga.
FMA03's filler has a problem, and it's that it doesn't give a shit about how much it shits on the characters or how it changes the meaning of the subplots it's adapting. Al listening to anything Barry the Chopper has to say and trusting him, after he personally kidnapped Winry and tried to murder her and Ed, is retarded even for 03!Alphonse's standards. Brotherhood Al is still naive, but he has more of an excuse since it's the first time he's met someone in a similar situation as him, and he can't tell for sure if Barry was ever a human.
>that weird wormy guy in charge of that mining town who hates Ed but was never explained why he hates him in brotherhood
Yoki gets a flashback explaining why he hates the Elrics a bit later, which is all the attention his backstory deserves.

>>155550201
no in the original Ed asked if he hates him. In brotherhood he asked if he blames him. I got a lot more feels from that episode than I did when it happened in the original and al was like nah I can't hate my brother. Ed slaming the table, walking out of the room distraught, winry telling al when ed actually wanted to ask, the flashback to ed after the accident laying in bed talking about how bad he feels for what he did, them sparring on the roof and talking,

>Brotherhood has more consistent writing, more focus on characters and setting, better insight into alchemy, and has a more conclusive ending that doesn't feel like fanfiction

>yeah b-but it's shounenshit!

>>155550990

Only the original homunculi. The Brotherhood homunculi are ass. "Hey you know the original's Gluttony? Let's just have 7 of those".

>>155551026
>better insights into alchemy

They don't even explain how Mustang's alchemy works in Brotherhood, m8.

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>Ed and Sloth didn't get to reach some sort of mutual understanding and work out the desire for a very late abortion and identity crisis, respectively
Fuck me.

>>155550243
yeah but just talking about it vs SHOWING us them.

>>155551026

>more focus on characters
> better insight into alchemy

Nope.

>a more conclusive ending that doesn't feel like fanfiction

More conclusive? Sure. Also far more boring and less thought provoking. Its a generic shounenshit "the end".

>>155550886
He didn't understand how else to attempt that. Throughout the entire show there are constant themes of 'absorption' to inherit the qualities of someone else or convert them into energy. The dwarf in particular operated on that basis. He's not human and despite the similarities in his qualities, he was driven by a singular purpose to be free and the method in which he obtained it being obscene was completely lost on him. All he asks god in the end is what he did wrong, no acknowledgement at all that he was getting what he deserved. You can't expect something like that to think in human terms.

>>155550942
I think that's probably just your subjective opinion? I don't find a selfish human villain who strives for immortality particular interesting or original for that matter. I'm not saying you're wrong for thinking so either, but you shouldn't assume it's more right to like one or the other. I'm just explaining how I interpreted Father's character/motives and why it was more complex than just wanting to be god.

>>155549347
I actually found that a really moving epilogue to the entire journey. It is totally in line with Ed's character of ultimately never succumbing to despair and always looking for a way forward.

That it was implied he never made it back to his own world was sad of course, but FMA is really a story about tragedy, hope and a quest for redemption. In the tragedy there's also beauty because we get to see the fruits of Ed's struggles. It was great to see where his drive and ambition brought him in our world. Life itself never turns our as expected and there are events and things that are insurmountable for an individual no matter how talented they are. I see the epilogue in this light and found it ultimately delivered an emotionally moving message particularly grounded in reality.

>>155551040
Greed, Wrath, Pride and Envy from Brotherhood are definitely great characters, as well as intimidating villains. But yeah, the rest of them aren't much to write home about. Sloth is just there digging on the underground, Gluttony is just there and he likes to eat and act creepy and shit, and Lust dies way too early.

I watched 2004 before reading the manga, and the Homunculi were so much more interesting in 2004. and Father just wasn't an interesting villain for me.

>>155551010
>in the original Ed asked if he hates him. In brotherhood he asked if he blames him.
Hard to tell, I don't have the line but I bet that's just a translation thing. I should watch both scenes back to back now to make an opinion.

>>155551160
>Greed
Cliché reformed villain
>Wrath
Yeah
>Pride
lol no
>Envy
Yeah

>>155550496
didn't like either ending. Mustang and Hawkeye should have ended together. Same with Ed and Winry. At least Brotherhood made an attempt at Winry and Ed.

>>155550942
>The original anime looks at human nature. Brotherhood looks at shounen asspulls.

Nicely put, that's really the essence that makes the original so much more. This is also what my thoughts are but you summarized it neatly in one sentence.

>>155550201
never watched the 2003 version bro, just brotherhood.

>>155551367
Cliché isn't bad by default, the way his greed, which was his main bad guy trait, is what ultimately turned him into a good guy of sorts later on was a cool take on the trope.

>>155549513
At least this thread is very good. No shitposting. No one is flinging shit to each other. Everyone discussing the subject at hand. This indicates FMA is a great show.

>>155551403
Hey, at least you have doujin? There are some good Mustang and Hawkeye ones out there too. Seriously, FMA got some quality work done for it. It's just unfortunate there are so many Ed and Mustang ones, I will never understand how that pairing got popular.

>>155551461
Maybe but I wasn't too invested because of how predictable his development was in Brotherhood. Greed in 03 already treasured friendship from the get go but he didn't turn into a good guy because of it.

>>155550648
i just hate kids in general so that's why I found both wrath in original and pride in brotherhood annoying

>>155550739
speaking of father did they ever explain how he can just stop people from using alchemy?

>>155550752
original wrath was an annoying little shit. Bradley being wrath was better. But Bradley being Pride was also better.

>>155551718
Yes.

At least they defeat father in the original. What ever happened with Dantae? Did she die? Did she get a stone and was successful? No closer.

>>155551609
2003 treasured friendship only because they were a means to his own ends, if someone on his side died, then he just lost an asset. It doesn't change anything about him, but 2003 greed's definition to friendship was far more different to that of Brotherhood's

>>155551889
>hello, I didn't pay attention at all when watching so please be patient

inb4 you reply
>how do you expect me to remember something I watched 10 years ago

>>155550993
I mean that scene where ed is like I actually thought I was about to die and is clearly super freaked out was kind of a big deal. First time a child had to become a man.

>>155551026
yeah brotherhood's ending was definitely better because there was actually a fucking ending and not a TO BE CONTINUED IN THIS MOVIE! which still doesn't fucking end it really.

>>155551064
yes they do. They explain his glove makes a spark.

>>155551923
>treasured friendship only because they were a means to his own ends
>Die to give Ed a hint of how to kill the other homunculi and get to the responsable of his friends' deaths.
2003 Greed was just tsundere.

>>155551987
Technically Ed already experienced that kind of moment on the island Izumi puts him on... As a state alchemist he also presumably has dangerous encounters with people often enough to be somewhat desensitized to close brushes with death.

>>155551146
I really want to know what he did wrong. I don't think they ever told us.

>>155552137
I think one of the points of that whole scene, besides showing what happens to the dwarf, is that no one is ever supposed to know. Just human transmutation not being possible, it's also not really possible to trump god due to the nature of what god is.

>>155552221
just like human transmutation not being possible*

>>155551327
I watched both scenes before replying. I liked Brotherhood's more. If you're wondering the scene is in episode 9 of brotherhood and episode 24 of the original.

>>155551833
what was the reason? I just remember he took a step and suddenly he shut down all alchemy.

>>155551963
the original ended with Al bringing Ed back then Ed being in our world and Al being in their world but forgetting everything. No mention of Dontae. What happened to her?

One thing that 2003 has a problem with is how Ed and Al never really grow as characters despite the plot making it seem like they are supposed to. The one filler episode about the dude with the missing leg refusing automail and accepting his losses completely flies by Edward despite the fact he was clearly affected by the event in that episode. The ideology behind the brothers never change as they go after the philosopher's stone even though the story makes it seem like they are trying to grow as individuals.

Like, Ed and Al learns what goes into a philosopher's stone but they are immediately opposed to the idea so the entire macguffin plot of pursuing the stone goes to waste because it never affects Ed and Al through the rest of the narrative. If the two brothers had at first still wanted to pursue the stone despite learning how its made because they just want to get their bodies back to their original forms (showing that Ed and Al are still acting for selfish purposes rather than righteous ones) then perhaps it would've made for more interesting character progression.

And I'm not trying to say brotherhood is any better, Brotherhood is just straight up shounen

>>155552092
I'm pretty sure that was his first real mission

>>155552394
>Dante and Gluttony in elevator
>Dante sees that Gluttony is acting on primal instinct to eat shit
>Dante tells Gluttony to wait and she'll give him shit to eat
>Gluttony attacks Dante
>Dante attempts to defend herself
>Cut to elevator opening completely empty, Dante and Gluttony are gone

>Shamballa movie
>Gluttony is still alive

context clues, anon, do you know what they are?

>>155552526
oh fuck you're right. I had no idea what happened in that elevator. Ok so Gluttony ate Dontae they just didn't say or show it out right. Thank you.

>>155552526
There was a hole in the elevator.

>>155552595
and?

>>155552648
Both could have escaped.

>>155552967
yeah they were very unclear about that

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>>155552347
Alchemists redirect the energy that flows through the Earth to power their transmutations. Amestrian alchemists in particular use energy that goes from the tectonic shifts deep underground to the surface. Father is using part of his Philosopher Stone to lay a barrier between the surface and the tectonic plates, so he controls exactly how much energy alchemists have at their disposal. He disables Amestrian alchemy by thickening the barrier until nothing can pass through it.
People like May aren't affected by Father's little trick because they use Xingese alchemy, which doesn't involve tectonic energy, but the "rivers" of energy that flow from the mountaintops to the surface.

>>155553299
I remember about the barrier. That makes sense. I just don't remember them saying he makes the barrier thicker and that's how he stopped alchemy.

So after father dies alchemists are like exponentially more powerful because no barrier?

No one is talking about Mustang? '03 turned him into a weak, depressed, ultimately useless shadow of the smart, proactive leader in Brotherhood. '03 having him be the killer of Winry's parents was an insult to his character for cheap drama. He was a better father figure in Brotherhood.

>>155553483
Agreed. 2003 Mustang was a joke. I wanted Brotherhood Mustang to father my children.

>>155553424
>So after father dies alchemists are like exponentially more powerful because no barrier?
Technically they should be, though the alchemist's own skill is probably a big factor too.

>>155552259
Well turns out you are very wrong. First of all the scene in 2003 was from episode 23, 24 shows a flashback showing part of the scene at the beginning.
Ed desperately trying to stop Al from getting away and Al hitting Ed while trying to break free was better than Ed punching his table and going to the roof.
In Brotherhood they reconcile in minutes, after Winry tells Al what his brother was trying to say. In 2003 they reconcile after 2 episodes and after both Winry and Ed comes and risk their lives to find him and Ed himself told him what he was trying to ask him. Both have the scene with Ed after their failed human transmutation but in 2003 they cut before Ed says a thing, making you wonder if what Al thinks is true.
Lastly >Baka Al
That shit killed the mood.

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>>155547914
HawkeyeMustang had a better ending in the 03.

>>155551570
The doujins suck.
>one good RoyRiza one
>others arent translated/rape/gay

>>155553483
>2003 doesn't gloss over Mustang having done horrendous shit that should have an affect on his psyche and that's bad

>>155553811
Why do all the heads in Brotherhood have the same bloated/square look?

>>155553968

Roy and Riza have literally devoted their lives to making up for what they did in Ishval to the exclusion of everything else. Brotherhood actually has them taking action to prevent any more massacres instead of sitting around and crying about what already happened. They're definitely not shown to be carefree or unaffected.

>>155554330
Problem is we never felt what they did. They just killed nameless people off screen. They are more proactive in Brotherhood, yes.

I liked 2003 back when I first watched it, but looking back at it after Brotherhood, the 2003's anime original plot is really fanfiction tier.
>FRANK ARCHER
>some edgy subplot about Rose being raped and becoming HOLY MOTHER
>Kimblee is just an edgy maniac
>Wrath is obnoxious kid
>forced romance everywhere
>Lust has more envy than Envy himself, and they made Trisha a Sloth just because slot was open
>muh bittersweet ending for the sake of drama
I do agree that the direction was better and they did try to put emphasis on drama instead of action, but the writing was just not good enough. The only thing I don't like about Brotherhood is rushed start with lots of inappropriate superdeformed "humor". Also how Kimblee just disappears for dozen of episodes in the middle of show.

>>155555932
I don't even remember Brotherhood Kimblee.

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reminder

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>>155555932
Also, 2003 Ed looks too girly and doesn't seem to age throughout the series.

>>155555932
I can agree that Brotherhood had a rushed start, that's why my method of watching (after I watched both series that is) is to watch the start in 2003 format, and than, after certain point, go to Brotherhood and watch the events unfold as they did in the manga.

2003 and CoS are god-tier anime. Brotherhood/manga are still good but they are flawed and are also nowhere near as good. Every single character in 2003/CoS is better then their Brotherhood counterpart with the exception of Bradley(he's equally good as the very evil Pride in 2003 or the badass Wrath in Brotherhood), and Kimblee(better in Brotherhood.) Villains in 2003 easily eclipse villains in Brotherhood.

People hate 2003 because it doesn't have the happy ending, because 2003 is a more tragic story, but Brotherhood's happy ending was unjustified and forced for the sake of a happy ending.

It's not that Brotherhood didn't have it's strengths, it still had mostly solid character writing until the end, lots of cool action, the Xingese characters were great, Greed and Bradley are still great villains, but it doesn't compare.
>>155553483
Are you kidding? 2003 Mustang is an absolutely amazing character. Brotherhood Mustang does a lot more cool shit but he's also nowhere near as mature. 2003 Mustang's story was about his depression and how war has damaged him as a person, and he rose up from that in the end of the TV series and CoS.

In Brotherhood, finding out who kills Hughes is a big part of Mustang's character arc. When he does find Envy, he flips out and goes on a huge rampage to torture Envy until he gets stopped(to which we have a horrible resolution of "don't kill him just for revenge" where Edward, Riza, and the completely irrelevant Scar have to stop him).

In 2003, Mustang is greatly saddened by Hughes death, but he uses that as motivation to move forward and continue on the same path he was before Hughes died. He does not go on a revenge quest to find out who kills Hughes, Mustang never finds out. Casca and Winry insult Mustang to his face, dispraging him for valuing his shiny new promotion over investigating the death of Hughes, but Mustang just takes it without saying anything back.

2003 Mustang is the second best character from 2003.

>>155556319
The difference is too jarring to enjoy in my opinion, 2003 didn't age well either.

>>155555932
>complaining about poorly defined "edge" when, among other things, human experimentation, human sacrifice, dismemberment, and genocide were are all featured
>Kimblee is just an edgy maniac
Brotherhood's fedora tipper without a veneer of amiability, then.
>Wrath is obnoxious kid
Why is this bad again? His behavior makes sense given his circumstances.
>muh

>>155555932
Who was roses kids father?
Kimblee in 03 was dumb

>>155556366
>the Xingese characters were great

>>155554330
So shounen shit then? The typical "i will never let anyone die/get hurt again" cliche that ever angsty shounen protagonist has?

Showing that a soldier suffers from ptsd doesn't make him weak, it just means that he is human, with human faults. And considering that he still manages to do his job, stay cool under pressure and successfully take down Bradley, I wouldn't say that the 03 Mustang isn't still a badass.

>>155556492
>Kimblee in 03 was dumb

No shit Sherlock.

Kimblee had only 1 panel of page time when the 03 anime premiered. Sure the manga's version was better, the writer had years to plan to make him better than his anime counterpart. All they had to go off of at the time was "mad bomber", so, they made him a mad bomber.

>>155556087
That was so fucking stupid. Even before he became the terminator he was stupid

>>155556692
The absolute madmen.

03 had some good moments but its ultimately a mess compared to brotherhood, outside of envy lust hohenheim and sloth the brotherhood counterparts blow the 03 versions out of the water. 03 ed is an angsty cunt, sure you could say he's more realistic and tragic then his brotherhood counterpart because he goes full savage mode to save his brother, but in the end his sacrifices were for jack shit and earlier in the show he was a complete bitch. He threw away his alchemy state badge just because nina died, think about it, he threw away the only realistic shot he had at saving his brother because a little girl he knew for three days died. Compare that to brotherhood ed who gets depressed for a while before realizing he has his little brother counting on him and he can't mope around being a little bitch as much as he wants to, life is fucking hard ed already knows this, Nina dying shouldn't make him re evaluate his goddam life. Not only that but brotherhood ed has a perfect development cycle, from the very beginning he's clearly a prideful alchemist, constantly shitting on god and comparing alchemists to gods and taking pride in being a kid as a state alchemist. He always goes to alchemy to solve his problems and the problems for those around him, he loves showing it off and flaunting it as well. How fitting was it that his final opponent was Selim, the fucking physical incarnation of pride itself and after he defeated him through non alchemical means he saved his brother by sacrificing his pride and becoming a normal guy, all while realizing that his alchemy powers don't make him above anybody else and that cocky ego he had was the exact downfall of him. It's beautiful.

That's just one character, 03 Al is extremely boring, he just bounces off of others compared to brotherhood al who has his own development with his childlike ideals. Scar who's wasted in the original yet done perfectly in brotherhood. Greed, mustang, Bradley, hawk eye etc

>>155556692
You're making that sound as an excuse for bad writing. "It wasn't covered in the manga at the time, so they weren't really to blame for coming up with stupid shit".

>>155556453
Wrath was anoying as fuck I hated him.

>>155556851
>He threw away his alchemy state badge just because nina died, think about it, he threw away the only realistic shot he had at saving his brother because a little girl he knew for three days died
In 03 they stayed more time with Tucker and Nina was right there the first time Ed did an alchemic transmutation without a cyrcle and got his state alchemist license. They knew her father, he helped Ed, and they didn't notice he was a psychopath who would do something so fucked up just to keep that same badged Ed just got.

>>155556507
I liked them

>>155556876
Kimblee's character in 2003 wasn't awful though. He was just a mad bomber which is the only thing they had to go off of. Brotherhood Kimblee is also a mad bomber but he has a very unique worldview which makes him a better character.

>>155556492
Rose was raped. Father is not known, nor id relevant.

>>155556492
>Who was roses kids father?
A bunch of soldiers. They took turns.

>>155556851
>because a little girl he knew for three days died
Another fucking retard that didn't even watch the show.

The only problem with 03's movie ending was it didn't wrap anything up. I've always wanted more.

I read the manga, (including the first 10 or so volumes twice), and watched the anime on and off until the Gluttony escape arc.

I hate Brotherhood because it's a cheapass B grade novelist fan-fic of Rurouni Kenshin. Hiromu Arakawa had a good thing going with the foundations, but ruined it because she lost steam and didn't know where to take the story. And I relate. It's tough to start AND finish something all on your own. The pass-off to Aniplex was the greatest thing that's ever happened to anime and manga. It's beneath my dignity to explain why to someone who can't overlook the meritless parody that is the FMA mana/Brotherhood, even more to say it's better than the masterpiece of FMA 2003.

But I will humor you. Starting with Volume 8, the protagonists all gain massive plot armor and the satirical undertones start to slip into the story (Barry finding Hawkeye somehow before anyone). It never feels like anyone is safe in the original except Ed.

People like OP who don't understand the ending are just bottom-feeders with no sense of perspicacity. The ending of the anime was the ending. The idea that the Equivalency Law is incomplete, but that if two strong-willed individuals apply themselves and have faith, they can overcome the deficiency where everyone before them met their folly (Hoenheim and Dante), is the entire crux of the story of two brothers trying to regain what they lost in a tragic accident. The Homunculus also are more human, in a deeply uncanny way and have a unique role in the story in that they drive it forward, while in the manga they're just generic husks of a plot device.

I can't respect anyone who prefers the manga/BH. Your shallow opinions are traded based on who owns the property like DBS fans. I won't defend Conqueror of Shambala, but it was just to tie-up loose ends so that people wouldn't get confused and mistake Brotherhood for a sequel. Basically it existed for you people.

>>155557218
This. I want closer.

>>155557786
How is brotherhood like ruroni kenshin?

>>155557953
You've never seen the second arc of Ruroni Kenshin?

The old Oniwaban leader = Fu , Aoshi = Mustang, the Homunculus and their powers are all based on the Jubangattena. Lust is combination of Yumi and the Sword Collector. Selim is the lightning fast kid (note how they both are sociopaths and have existential crises that lead them to lose). Bradley is kind of like the blind guy who isn't so much prideful, but is in fact, wrathful. I'm not gonna list them all.

>>155558136
I should mention, I am referring to Aoshi/Mustang when they're dead-set on revenge, and Ed/Kenshin have to stand in their way and snap them out of it.

I also hate how Mustang got punished with blindness even after he overcame that vice. Like the author just couldn't be arsed to overcome their original vision.

>>155545682

Manga/FMA:B ended too cliche, too sappy.

Al should have died. A larger effort to defeat father could have been nice, his arrogance was his downfall because he simply couldn't predict/accept Hoho could generate a countermeasure, I tend to hate these kinds of results when villains have a level of 'I know everything', he was a truth after all.

Showing us another pair who simultaneously do a human transmutation would have been good to cement the idea that doing a spell at the same time allows you to use OTHER PEOPLES gates. That first time Ed interacts with Als body didn't have them directly touch or do anything that implied crossing to another's gate could do that, or that a gate could be sacrificed.

It's great, but not the best. 7/10.

>>155550566

It's really common/standard for japs. Even in more serious works a character will break into slapstick or crack a joke. Why do westerners feel like it should be either all comedy or straight serious 24/7? When shit hits the fan people don't eternally get all sullen and dull (unless that was their personality to begin with).

I think FMA gets this kind of comment more because it's really entry level series, for this is a very standard thing for shounen series.

>muuh friends
>I gotta help muuh friends
Cliche ending. 6/10 Show at best. FMA was a trainwreck but at least it wasn't cringe.

>>155558381
Because it's inappropriate. Hiromua Arawaka lacks tact. If there's slapstick stuff in say, Yu Yu Hakusho, it's always at parts that help add tone to the story such as Hiei, Kuwabara, and Kurama's elation when Yusuke comes back from the dead or earlier when Hiei his attitude problem was a front to see if Yusuke still had the stones like he did against Toguru.

There's no reason for it in FMA. The 2003 anime was right to tone it down and keep it grounded.

>>155558381
>It's really common/standard for japs.
There are plenty of anime that do not utilize humor as awfully as Brotherhood does, man.

Brotherhood is one of the best anime series of all time.

That fact that you morons still hate on it years later, and the mere mention of it spawns threads with 100s of replies, proves that fact.

>>155558829
>threads where people cast doubt on the legitimacy to an anime being called 'best of all time' with their own reasoning is in fact the proof that it's the best anime of all time
?
?
?

>>155558829
There were only 36 posters when the thread was at 171 replies before I came in and stirred things up. I saved your thread from dying.

>>155558829
My favorite anime series is naruto and naruto shippuden. Brotherhood is good too though

>>155558924
Ty

>>155545682
2003 just seemed to be an overall better written story with more interesting characters and had a better explanation for how everything worked.

Brotherhood just had a lot less impact to me, goes full on plot and abandons all character development around the end, and everyone is running around with a philosophers stone when it 2003 it took until the end of the series for one to finally show up.

>>155560012
I still don't understand how Al was the philosopher's stone. Like it isn't a stone? It's a ball of energy inside him? what?

>>155560088
my little anon can't be this retarded

>>155545682
I don't even remember the ending of the original.

>>155545682
Both suck

I don't even remember. It's 13 years or so since I saw the original. Haven't finished brotherhood.

Brotherhood was created for the sole purpose of drawing in children. Nearly everything was condensed down so a smaller mind could get the gist of the plot along with the more action oriented episodes occurring more frequently so a child wouldn't lose interest hence the large amount of power creep in Brotherhood to keep a child on the edge of his seat waiting for next week's battle episode.

The mature storytelling of 2003 along with the political drama made it better at the time and also allows 2003 to age better than Brotherhood thus becoming the anime shounen standard that it is today.

>>155550301
Nah, its perfectly understandable. Anime has (or used to have) an obsession with nazi Germany for some reason. Naming their leader the Fuhrer could have just been another one of those quirks.

>>155545682
I like a lot about '03, but the anime original territory got worse and worse as it went on.

I agree for that reason. Brotherhood was way more consistent in its quality.

>>155548229
Hang yourself