What is with anime and the lack of subtlety? Do they not trust

>>155517994
>What is with anime and the lack of subtlety?
Have you seen the average anon? Have you seen how often people on /a/ fail to understand the painfully obvious?

Subtlety is lost on us.

>>155517994
>>155518055
Because there are some people in the world who can't take a hint from subtlety

>>155517994
Several reasons

1. Anime/Manga is still largely for children
2. The average adult is still dense as fuck
3. It's lazy/easy writing (there are more bad writers than good writers in the world)

It's like asking why anime is filled with girls with gigantic tits. The average audience is dumb and the writers are uncreative

>>155518143
>why anime is filled with girls with gigantic tits
The reason is simple, the author likes tits. TITS.

>>155517994
The literal only form of humor that exists in japan is something crazy happening and then a straight man explaining that the situation is crazy. They don't understand sarcasms or ironics or subtlety. Also the target audience is adults with the brains of children.

>>155517994
>Anime
More like any kind of media.

Believe it or not, people are stupid. Your average person is fucking stupid. They will never get the point of stupidly obvious things unless you smash them in the face with it and even then there's people who still don't get it sometimes.

>>155517994
>Do they not trust viewers to pick up on small hints
No, the average person is a moron. Especially when you consider this is often for children as well as dumb adults

>What is with (all forms of media) and the lack of subtlety?

Anyway, the answer is that the trend towards one cour shows has been a very bad thing.

>i know this is a common thing in all media
>but why is it common in anime?

You already answered your own question. Its not more common in anime, you might just be watching a lot of anime. The New York Times is written at a 5th grade reading level on a whole. Sure you can find tons of examples where that isn't the case, but on average, you want your media to be as simple as possible so that it can reach the widest audience. You'd be surprised how much you take people having common sense for granted.

>>155518318
Subtlety sometimes kills a show

>>155517994
The disdain of anime studios of the target audience is nothing new.

People who eatch anime are fucking stupid. All except me though since i also browse /c/

>ITT "anime pros“

Kek

>>155518055
Those are the people who complain about series being DEEP when in reality they just don't spoonfeed you everything.

>>155517994
in case you think people who say people are dumb are just full of themselves
do remember that confirmation bias isn't something that only happens to stupid people
most people start out believing they are normal (not freaks of nature)
smart young people tend to believe people to be smarter than they really are

https://www.youtube.com/a?v=kKf2fEwN9xs

>>155517994
>Do they not trust viewers to pick up on small hints like the conversation about a mouse's lifespan?
You know what? sometimes people don't even understand the main plot point, let alone small hints.
Take a look at a Sakura Quest thread, anons don't even remember the main girl's name correctly despite the fact that's the very reason why the girl was mistaken for someone else and got involved into the plot.

There was a Warau Salesman thread last night where an anon literally had the audacity to say that the victims didn't regret meeting the salesman because they never explicitly said so. Because becoming old/ugly and getting fired from your job is not enough evidence to suggest that they regretted encountering Moguro after the fact and instead they needed to outright say it for it to be true.

>>155504842

So no, to answer your question, any kind of subtlety is lost on the average viewer. Unless its stated outright that 'leaves too much room for interpretation' and then we have to have arguments with idiots who can't process simple concepts like 'accepting a deal with the devil inevitably leads to despair' and by proxy, regret.

>>155517994
anime viewers are autists, they can't pick up on subtleties

>it's a the /co/ nostalgia-fags complain about inane shit : the thread

>>155518299
>The literal only form of humor that exists in japan is something crazy happening and then a straight man explaining that the situation is crazy.
But Jugemu exists.

>>155517994
Maybe not every anime needs to be 2deep4u and overly cryptic for no reason
Most writers, directors, producers, and creators in general are simply masturbating when they use "subtlety" because they want to show off how good they are at handling stuff
It's pretentious nonsense that adds absolutely nothing and the only reason morons like it is because they feel smart for "getting it"

>>155521276
You are responding to a person that thinks he can judge the entire breadth of Japanese communication by watching a few cartoons.

>>155517994
>What is with anime and the lack of subtlety?
Because you're watching a KyoAni Anime.

>>155517994
That scene in the OP was some fucking high school freshman level writing.
Seems like Maid Dragon shit itself right at the end.

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>>155521299
THIS

All the deep shit just reminds me of my teenage years when I desperately wanted to show everyone how smart I was.

>>155517994

I don't know if you picked up on this but that scene might have been showing us how much of a manipulative arse her father is by having him tell her what she was obviously already thinking.

>>155517994
>Do they not trust viewers to pick up on small hints
Yes.

Why?

Because it's cartoons for children. Shocker, right?

You are just a bunch of hypocrites every time an anime tries to be subtle you mock it and call it pretentious. Then you litter the board with fucking moe threads and generals.

Fuck, I don't know why I come back to this cesspool.

>>155521463
>/a/ is one person

>>155517994
They have to fill the screen with something.

>>155517994
Nah, just generic ecchi anime trying 2deep4you.

>>155517994
Because you autists really don't pick up the small hints. Go to the thread of any show that does that and you will see most people don't get it.

>>155521526
Fuck off back to /b/inland.

Kyoukai no Kanata had a lot of implied stuff... Which only a few anons picked.

>>155521463
Now shows that are subtle about its characters and what they feel are also bashed. You idiot.

>>155521463
Of course we do, because it is pretentious bullshit

>>155521605
I just remember the dance episode
It should have been more fun like that and less "dark and serious"

If you wanted an intelligent show, you'd be watching Rakugo and not Maid Dragon. And anime fans would've gone crazy for Shinsekai Yori and not SAO.

>>155521463
>You are just a bunch of hypocrites every time an anime tries to be subtle you mock it and call it pretentious. Then you litter the board with fucking moe threads and generals.
What is hypocritical about this?

>>155517994
most people don't pick up hints in general senpai. Maid Dragon isn't supposed to be particular deep or thought provoking anyway.

>>155521672
Moe shows are deeper than you think.

>>155517994
>treating anime like a serious art form
get a load of this faggot

>>155517994
When they don't, people flip the fuck out and can't handle it.

>>155521463
You'd have to be a /v/-tier contrarian to fucking mock Utena or Princess Tutu, or Gundam War in the Pocket for being pretentious.

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>>155518055
>Subtlety is lost on us.
And then people burn entire threads on analyzing tiny foreshadowing, hidden references and SYMBOLISM in shows.

>>155521722
>Utena
Pretentious shit

>Princess Tutu
Boring moeshit

>Gundam War in the Pocket
Forced drama

>>155521749
Thanks for proving my point, /v/ermin.

>>155521749
>anon
trying too hard

>>155517994
Do keep in mind it works as good padding. Exposition can really help lazy writers, especially in adaptations where they need to fill an episode.
Unless you're Toei in which case you have 5 or 6 minute intro sequences.
t. One Piece

>>155521753
>>155521758
How about now?

>Utena
Degenerate lesbianshit

>Tutu
Vapid escapism

>Gundam
Allied kike WWII propaganda

>>155521722
tutu was good, but utena was trying too hard and gundam is generic shonenshit.

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>>155521812
>Degenerate lesbianshit
Lesbianism is literally least degenerate shit it had

>Vapid escapism
No

>Allied kike WWII propaganda
What did you actually meme by this?

>>155521867
War in the Pocket is actually really good.

>>155521812

>>>/pol/

>>155521892
>>155521902
Stop replying you retards. How are you not able to recognize what's literally Trolling 101: Always disagree with the post you're replying to, especially if you can do it dismissively.

>>155517994
It's called poor translation.

>>155517994
anime is made for kids and manchildren
what the fuck do you think? if you don't like it consider a new hobby

>>155517994
It was an incorrect sub. The actual Japanese didn't expound like that at all.

>>155521934

>trolling

This is not 2007 nor r*ddit

>>155521991
>nor r*ddit
You are the reddit.

>>155517994
Maid Dragon is garbage, that's why.

>>155521732
That only happened the first few episodes. There was no reason to continue once Kyubey spends a whole episode explaining fucking everything.

It really ruined the show for me, since there wasn't really a reason to actually explain their motivation in the first place when it's more fun to speculate. Not to mention that the motivation is fucking dogshit. Aliens? Really?

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>>155517994
That mostly only happens in comedy anime and garbage though. You just need to watch more desu.

>>155522107
>Aliens? Really?
Why not? I could certainly see why an advanced aliens species would be interested in using magic to obtain excess energy that defies entropy in order to prevent the heat death of the universe.

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>>155522197
>tryhardnolyze

>>155522016
>>155521934

>>155522218
Aliens could work but I'm definitely doesn't fit the setting at all, and doesn't work with any of the anime's themes.

I think it would be better if it was hinted at aliens, Satan (with all the Faust symbolism), or whatever else, but it's just stupid to just outright say its aliens doing alien magic.It's sort of a rule of thumb to let some things to your own imagination, because the real secret is always going to be disappointing.

>>155517994
This scene was so cringy. I literally dropped the anime right there.

>>155522107
>Not to mention that the motivation is fucking dogshit. Aliens? Really?

It's a type of Cosmic Horror.

Do you think much of the cattle they breed in pens that only live so that they can die and turn into Quarter Pounder from McDonalds?

One may think that humans are some super special snowflake species, but to the QBs, they're nothing more than expandable batteries. And the revelation how the QBs have been around since the dawn of man (and thus, the revelation how major events in history had a magical girl's hand in them) just increase the feelings of insignificance and how humanity as a whole have been just dancing in the palms of the incubators the entire time.

The audience isn't there. It'll take future generations who view animation as something greater than how it's treated to break this mould.

Right now, too few adults who aren't in it for the fanservice or cheap escapism spend enough money. Animation is expensive and time consuming, it's not like with live action where you can make a powerful, moving piece of full length work with a shoestring budget in a few months or even less. When you look at stuff in animation competitions a lot of it focuses purely on the art because the resources to animate something bigger simply aren't there.

It's an issue that encapsulates society and the public's view of animation. It's especially awful in North America, where, for example, if you go to a theater to see an animated film it's a virtual guarantee to be some 3D family flick.

>>155522723
Animation is an inherently superior medium than live action cinema
And the public disdaining animation is good because it keeps them from poisoning the medium

>>155522949
It's just a different kind of poison

>>155523014
I agree
Otaku-pandering is like alcohol, it's soothing and pleasant but ultimately bad for you
Western-pandering is like cyanide, it just fucking kills you

>>155522949
>"Something I like getting popular is bad!"
Nothing sums up /a/ better than this.

>>155523063
Sorta applies to 4chan in general.

>>155523060
Honestly I'm tired of otaku pandering, and I don't really watch many shows now because of it. There's nothing soothing and pleasant about it anymore, just pretty dull and boring.

>>155522197
>boringANALyze

>>155523063
History proves this is true, though. Things that get popular will almost inevitably turn to shit at some point.

>>155521440
But it's not. It airs late at night.

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>>155517994
you're watching the wrong kind of anime, dude

>>155523114
Find new hobby. Let us jerk off in peace.

>>155523063
He's perfectly right though. Just look at video games. Popularity results in Jews ruining the medium for profit.

>>155523142
>History proves this is true, though
That's why classic literature is popular? Because it's bad!

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>>155517994
>>155518055
>>155518087

>>155523327
>classic literature is popular
But it's not
What's popular is garbage like Twilight and Hunger Games that make LNs look like literary masterpieces
Because that's what happens when a thing gets popular, it draws in the flies and everything gets drowned in a sea of shit

>>155517994
Subtlety isn't inherently better than overtness. People are so fixated on subtlety that they often miss overt storytelling and end up being mistaken.

>>155523436
>But it's not
Its is. Everyone read classic literature in school. Everyone know classic. Dostoevsky books were most popular in his time. Everyone in Russia, around the world read him. Same for other authors.
>muh Twilight
Twilight target audience is girls. Little girls.

>>155517994
But Maid Dragon was subtle about a lot of things, from your post I am going to assume you actually missed them.

>>155523664
Until that scene.

>>155521988
It's a near literal translation for お前のなかにある迷い. Try again, eop.

>>155518055
Asking anons for the meaning of something is very fun, because everyone has a unique view. It made Madoka 10 times better reading anons' critique and explanations of foreshadowing and easter eggs.

>>155517994
Yeah that scene was so fucking bad. It was embarrassing, even.

>>155517994
Maidragon and probably everything else you're referring to aren't really serious artistic works, and they're made for younger audiences. It's like complaining about a lack of subtlety in some Family Channel show, or like, Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

>>155523693
That scene had nothing to do with the anime being subtle or not, it's simply a visualization of how the characters feel. It had to be in your face because that's what Tohru is, because there was no reason to make it "subtle" by showing a grey rain or anything else. The scene worked because it was about Kobayashi. It had to be dragon because it was between Dragon Tohru and Tohru who wants to live with Kobayashi.

>>155523590
No
People pretend they like classics to appear smarter than they are and then go back to reading 50 shits of grey
It's the same thing with movies and music, everyone pretends to like good films and music but the shitty stuff is always the one that sells better and the one everyone wants to make because it sells

>>155517994
Yeah, that scene was stupid as fuck.

>>155523840
The funny part is I've seen anons here miss literal references in other shows. Then they complain about how something isn't explained in the thread later just to be made fun of by everyone with a greater attention span than a moth.

>>155523885
Artistic stuff is always and has always been niche, you're retarded.

>>155523590
>Everyone read classic literature in school.
Yes, because it's mandatory. And how many people read it because they want to?

I can't believe there are people on /a/ who still think that anime is made for kids.

>>155523970
>Artistic stuff is always and has always been niche
Isn't that basically what he said?

>>155523986
I have because I enjoy it.

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>>155517994
Could someone PLEASE post this picture without the subs? I would kill to use this as a background...

>>155524005
Most of it is.

>>155517994
I think it's just that the Japanese viewers don't take anime as seriously - for them it's like 1 watch and it's done, outside of 2ch peoples.

>>155524024
That's not what I asked, though.

>>155523926
It was cool
I AM THE SHADOW
THE TRUE SELF
Also Disappearance of Haruhi reference

>>155524005
It's a meme you dip.

>>155518055
4chan isn't the main demographic that watches the show.

>anons arguing here that people want subtelty for every little thing
No one said so. Things should be subtle when there is no need to plainly explain to the viewer/reader with awkward infodumps that just drag a scene out because it was already understood without telling explicitely.
And some things need extensive exposition to be understood like a character talking about his backstory to other characters or a scientist/specialist character explaining stuff in layman's terms to other characters (and thus to the viewer).

>>155524052
This. Things need to be spelled out because the audience isn't really paying attention. They miss small cues because they just don't care to catch them, and it's the show's fault for not being obvious enough that you can watch it while folding laundry, only occasionally look at the screen, and still keep track of what's happening.

>>155524150
There is a need though.

>>155524022
I mean to say, that something getting popular isn't going to change that fact, like he seems to be worried about.

>>155523885
>muh 50 shits of grey
>humanity is doomed!
Oh, anon you're on high ground and no like others fore sure. Classics are popular. In their times they were mainstream. Like OPM.
>>155523986
>And how many people read it because they want to?
All adult people I meet IRL.

>>155517994
Anime is for children.

>>155524114
Did you forget the clover on Tooru's shirt

>>155524199
There was not in that scene. Everybody knew dragons lived way longer than humans.
You could show her distress some other way.

>>155524273
It's not about the scene, you need to explain everything because a lot of people aren't paying attention.

But Maid Dragon was very subtle show?

And its apparent that its subtilety went way over the head of the likes of yours. The nuances and details that were carefully shown and drawn where to show one thing - despite looking like humans, Dragons are DIFFERENT. Even acting, talking like humans, living between humans - they are not humans. They are not even the "strange weird humans".

They are monsters or rather as if it would be like aliens or robots would try to hide themselves in human crowd - emulating emotion but not feeling it, manipulating humans reading their psyche, despite "friendly" behavior never changing the though that humans are just inferior insects below them and living with them is but a game.

The show took great length to show their ability to social mimicry and adaptation, but at same time the alien nature - and at some cases, monstrous nature with entirely different set of values. Even Tohru, the most "humane" of the dragons (Kanna is not genuine, she is the "trickster" dragon just playing a role) just has her attachment to Kobayashi, but otherwise still no connection to human world despite year living there.

Tohru is dragon of Chaos faction, living for destruction and bringing misery, just having a slight existentional crisis.

The scene you critizise with "shadow" talking to her is not "shadow" talking - its real her, the "human" Tohru is just a facade, an emulation taking a minor bit of cognitive power, while the Dragon rests.

"Human Tohru" thinks in human terms reflecting on a fact Kobayashi`s livespan is incomparable - but thats not her real thoughs, thats the "thoughs" of emulated persona. The REAL Tohru knows its all a game and that she should not confuse the game with her real goals and thoughs.

Kobayashi-san is Tohru Dragons PREY and she merely toys with her.

>>155521749
How the fuck is Utena pretentious?

Seriously, how?

>>155524326
Too many words for fucking Maid Dragon of all shows.

>>155524306
Yeah but even someone not paying attention knows dragons in literally every kind of fantasy setting live for centuries and humans live 1 century at most.
It's like explaining how elf and human ears are different because elf ones are pointy.

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>>155524267
Doesn't make sense to me why a studio would cater to a website that has maybe a few thousand users.

>>155524415
Not him but you are an idiot, Maid Dragon is a show that deserves all those words and more. There are a lot of things in that time, and it's ironic that people in this thread are completely missing them when saying that anime isn't subtle enough.

>>155524433
It wasn't only about the life span.

>>155524254
>Classics are popular. In their times they were mainstream.
You do realize that most people were illiterate up to about 150 years ago right?

>>155524267
lmao

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>>155524463
Because 4chan has millions of users, and they know it's full of people that would buy merch or disc if it pandered to them
So they slap a clover and people buy it
>>155524519
It's true

>>155524483
>It wasn't only about the life span.
It's not but you don't need that scene to make the other connections. You already know Tohru is only there for Kobayashi, it's in your face every episode and you know she fought humans, is a dragon that brings destruction and doesn't think much of humans from either worlds, whether in her maid form (constantly talking about killing humans) or her dragon form.

>>155523569
This. There is a time and place for everything. For example redhead's first reaction to tooru's disappearance was pretty subtle. And with tooru we got her subtle worries about how she, an immortal, can live and love a mortal being through the later half of the season.

Overall even stuff like the sopranos isn't as subtle as you think: it's often stated what the characters are going through and the same points were hammered again and again. LOST was more subtle with it's supernatural stuff (for example the light in the center of the island is the same one the characters walk into in the church) and look where that subtlety got the show, all the hate it's receiving.

Imho tooru's dragon worries being depicted like that work because it's not merely a psychological problem, she is afraid that she will physically go high-wire and destroy everything around her so showing the dragon form makes sense.

Still, I understand where you are coming from but don't shy away from overt just because it's "easy": it is what it is because it's effective.

>>155517994
Because 80% of people who watch anime are morons.

When most people who watch anime think that something as straightforward as NGE (a show which spells out it's message in the last two episodes) is difficult understand, it's hard to argue otherwise.

>>155524590
>clover
>4chan
anon...

>>155517994
Because you aren't smart enough to get it otherwise.

>>155524712
Well I say it represents 4chan
You can't factually disprove me unless the creators step in to clarify it
So this is what subtlety ends up being, idiots online arguing endlessly about the interpretation of symbolism
I win

>>155524114
It's also lost on whoever else is watching it

>>155524775
I think it's fair.
So Tohru is, dare I say, /our waifu/ ?

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Well, Haruhi did the exact same then, and there are a decent amount of people on /a/ who will tell you that this is the greatest scene in anime, so the plot device must be doing something right.

Funny that they're both done by the same studio too.

>>155524463
Because it's a decide dedicated to anime?
It's like a coffee shop catering to truckers. There aren't a lot of truckers, but they'll buy more.

>>155524848
By the same director too

>>155518299
Yeah, those fools need their jokes explained to them. Were as we just have to be commanded when to laugh by our laughing tracks, freedomed over a million times!

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>>155524840
That she is

>>155524483
Maid Dragon is pretty trashy, subtle or not, and it's a waste of breath to approach it with any degree of seriousness. I liked it a fair amount, but you're being pretentious.

>>155524848
>there are a decent amount of people on /a/ who will tell you that this is the greatest scene in anime
Wait, there are people that DON'T think this is the greatest scene in anime?

>>155523063
Are you saying it isn't?
And are you retarded?

>>155524956
There is nothing pretentious in what I said. It's also not trash, it has some problems like the one joke characters but it's not trash or trashy.

>>155521320
And yet KyoAni made K on so they know how to do it right sometimes

>>155521276
>But Jugemu exists.

This whole style of humor, with the 'joke' being that something totally absurd is introduced yet nobody acts like its unusual, is weird because it's actually much more subtle than most western humor typically and so it often just isn't treated as humor at all, given its almost never laugh out loud funny. It's funny that Japanese comedy is segmented like this, with it being either super obvious and pointed out to the viewer or otherwise simply left without that identification and just dropped in anyway.

>>155522107
>Not to mention that the motivation is fucking dogshit.
Entropy is the last enemy for any sufficiently advanced civilisation. It seems perfectly reasonable to me. Maybe you're a short-term thinker.

>That only happened the first few episodes.
That screenshot was from episode 10.