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I'm readin Dragon Ball volume 18.
At this point everything is fine. The plot is nice, the pacing is good and we learn that Piccolo, Ten Shin Ha, Yamcha and Chaozu are training with Kaio and they're all focused on training real hard to beat Goku.
So far no bullshit and Toriyama makes it feels like after this arc everyone will be near Goku level.
...
Then a few chapter later we get introduced to some of the worst bullshits in DB:
-Absurd powerlevels
-Saiyans get stronger when they're on the verge of death=> stupid senzu spam
-The legend of the super saian
Do you think Toriyama came up with this shits alone, or is this the influence of his editor? I have the feeling that while he was writting the Namek Arc, Toriyama radically changed his initial plan for BD and while the Namek arc is awsome from A to Z eveything past it is absolute boring shit. Same thing after Naruto Chūnin Exams... it felt like Kishimoto forgot how to right an interesting story. Geez.
Seriously what happened?
t. Fat Mexican
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>t.
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escalating stakes are what make battle comics interesting
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>>155496010
It wasn't handled well here though.
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>>155496428
the concepts work well enough for the arc they're introduced in
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>>155495823
>I have the feeling that while he was writting the Namek Arc, Toriyama radically changed his initial plan for BD
This is where you are wrong. There was no plan, none at all. Almost everything in DB was made on the fly, Akira confirmed this. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. It's obviously less noticeable pre-Namek, since arcs were shorter and easier to manage. Editors also had big influence on DB, the prime example is Android Saga, but if I recall correctly they'd usually make Akira change some stuff in the story, but not in the constructive way i. e. stuff in the manga is what Toriyama came up with, sometimes just not what he initially intended to put there.
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>>155495823
it makes sense in this arc, but it is clear that android saga is a mess
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>>155496473
Yes but after that...
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>>155495823
But the namek arc is one of thew few examples of shonen powercreep executed well.
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>>155497622
Should have ended there tho'
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>>155496943
The Android saga is the only example of Toriyama saying he was working week to week with no real plan. Namek was not an example of this kind of story telling.
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It was extremely difficult to top the insanity of the Namek arc and Toriyama just went full out balls out over the top with the story by introducing Trunks and was basically carrying the entire android and cell saga based off the esteem of that concept. The Frankenstein-esque story thrown in with Time Travel involving the offspring of two characters the were the least likely to hook up seemed like a good on paper, but Toriyama sold himself too large and jobbed on the job and that's when he really started coming out with asspull after asspull and fell short on everything.
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>>155498039
Nah. If Super Sayian was made so ridiculously overpowered and more of the characters where more competent it would have been fine.
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If you don't like the Android Saga then you don't like Dragon Ball
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>>155496428
fuck you, the series needed to have a new direction and fresh concepts. Perhaps they where all rushed to soon but it is understandable as the risk taken gave a good result.
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