Dragon Ball Super

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Leave Zamasu to me!

>>154677317
Neat
I mean if he achieved SSB it would make sense he can go SSG too.

>>154677317
So whats the excuse for not having trunks do the ritual when he was in the past timeline?

>>154677317
Will Jobhan become a super sand god too?

>>154677317
Did vegeta do the ritual or did he acquire this by himself?

>>154677317
Why did he job to hit when he can go ssg in the first place?

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Soon

>>154677486
because he didn't thought about it, he didn't warm up and he didn't knew anything about hit
fucking use your heads you fucking bunch of retards

"in the manga"

>>154677458
>>154677486
Perhaps he learned to internalize his God Ki control to the point he went from Blue to Red?
It could have been his technique he worked on in the RoSaT

>>154677426
I would like to see Gohan go Super Saiyan God. Need to bring that form back.

>>154677531
>because he didn't thought about it, he didn't warm up and he didn't knew anything about hit
>fucking use your heads you fucking bunch of retards
>Shit writing
>MAKE UP A HEADCANON THAT MAKES SENSE
ok

>>154677545
>Perhaps he learned to internalize his God Ki control to the point he went from Blue to Red
No... You don't go from blue to red.

>>154677531
Shit made no sense and vegeta knew about the ssblue drawback stop making excuses for this kindergarten tier writing

He just mastered it in his latest training retards.

>canon
Where?

>>154677426
You'd think they would do it given there's a universe threatening tournament coming up but you know they won't.

The ritual is the dumbest shit since it implies literally any Saiyan in U7 can level up to god mode so why haven't they?

>>154677616
>source my ass

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>>154677576
>No... You don't go from blue to red.
Who knows, perhaps he learned how to consolidate his innate God Ki to that frequency.
He did participate in the ritual, perhaps that's enough to tap into the same frequency?

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The Saiyan prince has his rematch!

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>>154677486
>tfw to smart too win

will punch the dense retards who points out the purposeful mistake

>>154677685
Stop being a moron. Last chapter ends with him finishing training and being confident
Suddenly, he now has SSG!

Doesn't take a genius. All it takes is common sense.

>>154677683
>The ritual is the dumbest shit since it implies literally any Saiyan in U7 can level up to god mode so why haven't they?
Toryiama said in an interview goku is a genuis so he managed to make the power of the ritual its own. So even if the ritual works on the others its not certain that they can keep it.
For shorts it the goku and vegeta show

>>154677317

>mango
>canon

lel

>>154677714
>Stop being a moron.
>Doesn't take a genius. All it takes is common sense.
>implying he obtained blue before red
Fuck right off you shithead

>>154677689
>this much headcanon
Why?

>>154677750
jfc, why do I even bother with you dipshits. Fine, enjoy looking like a dumbass when it's revealed I'm right when the leaks arrive.

>>154677793
because it's fun to speculate.

>>154677722
Fucking Toriyama man, he always seems to clarify how things work in god damn interviews instead of in the actual content he creates. I know he just makes shit up as he goes along but a little bit of planning ahead wouldn't kill him I'm sure.

>>154677813
>because it's fun to speculate.
No this always leads to braindead headcanons which is a major problem in this fanbase.

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>>154677403

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>>154677816
fuck ya bugah boy

go watch garge luukass star wars with all the planning if you want or go try suppaheroes movies with all nerd planning schedule

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>>154677317
so this leads us to God being stronger than Blue, right? i don't understand why they would even use Blue in this case. maybe if it was stronger but hurt you like a kaioken but it seems to be null in void.

>tfw its all just for games and toy sales but you just want an explanation

>>154677738
Shitposting as usual, I see.

>>154677892
>No this always leads to braindead headcanons
What more do you expect until there's further leaks? The posts I made clearly stated "perhaps" at the beginning of each post, no one is forced to believe anything.

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How would Vegeta obtain SSB without first attaining SSG at some point? Or have I been mistaken in thinking that SSB is just using SSJ while in God form? I'm so fucking confused.

>>154677916
>so this leads us to God being stronger than Blue, right?
No. Its just energy wise red doesnt drain as much power as blue.
Blue>red power
Red>blue effectiveness

>>154677953
>Red>blue efficiency
fix'd

>>154677939
It's not confusing at all. He has Blue, so he has God.

Raws fucking where

>>154677939
My problem as well.

>>154677953
Then why not just always go red?

>>154678005
>Then why not just always go red?
Because blue is stronger

>>154678005
Why ever go SSJ3?

>>154677939
You've got me

I thought the whole point of Red was that it was a fake thing that just becomes your base form.
Then Blue was just God Ki + SSJ

Now apparently Goku is a dopey mortal who can then become a super mortal who can become a god who can become a super god

and Vegeta is a mortal who can become a super god

tfw still waiting for a based anon for full raws

>>154678019
So, as I thought, God > Super Saiyan. But Blue is God + Super Saiyan. This makes it a point of why would they bother going Red God?

>>154677921
In denial as usual as expected
There are two continuities

>>154678020
You wouldn't.
SSJ3 has always just been a trap option that Goku found because his dead dick was free to stretch in ways it couldn't irl

it is never used to any effect ever

>>154678052
>This makes it a point of why would they bother going Red God?
Perhaps what you lack in raw power output like SSB, SSG has good stamina efficiency and maybe even some regenerative properties?

>>154678052
>This makes it a point of why would they bother going Red God?
Because blue has a drawback. Do you even read the manga?

>>154677317
What's even the point if SSB is stronger?

>>154677317
What is even the point turning ssg when blue is better?

>>154677486
Because toyble is a hack.

>I'm going to bitch and moan about how the chapter sucks despite only seeing 2 pages of it

I hate this fanbase. You fuckers do this every month.

Idiots fucking everywhere.

Blue is stronger than red. Period.

In the manga, Goku goes from SSJ, to Red, to Blue, while fighting hit.

In the anime, Red is called "Super Saiyan God", but it's basically base form with God Ki, which is perfect ki control.

It was specifically stated in the anime that SS Blue is A Super Saiyan God, that has become a Super Saiyan. Therefore, it is Super Saiyan with God Ki (perfect Ki control).

>>154678052
>>154678078
Red doesn't have any healing properties in the manga or the movie, only in the episodes.
Maybe it's something they wanted to add in or something they needed to spike drama.

All we know for certainly sure, until they do it again or fucking talk about it, is that Red is just a casual base form power up that doesn't require any stamina, power drop, or whatever the fuck is holding all the Z warriors back constantly.

Meanwhile going Blue is all pluses til you drop out of it and suddenly your power level is cut to 1/10th or something

>>154678131
tl;dr because stronk w/o penalties

With all this form bullshit constantly I really miss Frieza

>>154678092
But what is the drawback? I read it and it's kind of vague. They don't appear to be under the same strain as Kaioken. Or even much of a strain at all.

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Why is SSG stronger than SSB when SSB is the super saiyan form of SSG?

>>154678024
Wait is that not the explanation anymore?

>>154678131
Ther isn't any.
If the opponent is strong enough you can fight him as a SSJG there is no reason to not use SSB and finish him right off the bat.

>>154678164
>I read it and it's kind of vague.
No its not its pretty clear re read chapter 13

>>154678178
Because you can't read

>>154678146
HOL UP
you be sayin
SSG3 is posible
YOU
BE
SAYIN
SSG3KK IS POSSIBLE?

>>154678208
Sure why not. I don't see why we wouldn't see a SSB2 or 3 at some point if Toriyama runs out of ideas.

>>154678146
to be fair in the anime they just become retarded and don't explain shit

>Red form seems to give infinite ki to draw on, regeneration and space breathing(lol jk saiyans could always breathe in space)
>oops looks like you're still as strong as red even though it turned off!
>go train in this dimension where you keep all your ki jizz inside you
>now we blue!

>no noticeable feats or comparative opponents to show whether red or blue is stronger
>just assume blue is better because new form and no red shown ever again
>not sure, in the anime, if Blue is just some bandaid god form and Red is when they're really divine dudes or not

>manga clears it up slightly, but only slightly

>>154678208

IF Goku and Vegeta can figure out how to maintain perfect Ki control, in any SS form beyond SSJ1, then yes. That is my hypothesis.

>>154678178
SSG is weaker than SSB, in the manga is hard to tap into SSB that's why Goku uses the SSG instead.

>>154678164
It's not vague, contrived as fuck maybe but using it in quick sucession results in a 90% drop in power.

It's dumb because by this logic using the form for 10 minutes without breaks has less drain than powering down and up in the same second.

>>154677892
nofunallowed.jpg

I'd say that the previous Anon >>154677813 should've used "discuss" over speculate, but I understand your sentiments; discussion based on the facts on the lore is a good thing. A string discussion linking a fact to a theory that links to another theory, etc, isn't.

Reminder:
DB manga is canon until EoZ. The anime is not.
DBS's basic plot outline is created by Toriyama. Toei executives revise the draft of the anime based on such. It goes back to Toriyama, and he can tell them what works and what doesn't. Toriyama has the final say in all decisions.
Therefore, the DBS anime is considered "the most" canon, or the "hard" canon because it is the closest creation to the creator's mindset.
The DBS manga is a retelling of the same basic events by Toyotaro, and in the event of contingencies and contrasts, the anime canon overrides the manga canon.
All things that're not brought up in the anime but're present in the manga could be considered "soft" canon until Toriyama is asked outright about it.
Dragon Ball Online's history is considered "hard" canon since Toriyama had direct involvement in the story's development, therefore, confirms that Dragon Ball GT is not canon.
Super Saiyan 4 is respected by Toriyama.

>>154678243
>keep all your ki jizz inside you
surprisingly accurate.

Too many illiterate here
>Anime version
Ssg is absorbed into base
No need to turn into it
>Manga version
Ssg is a transformation

>>154678243

My headcanon is that when they said that Goku's body absorbed the feeling of being a God and increased in strength, essentially what that meant was when Goku was SSG, he could feel what it was like to have perfect Ki control.

When Super Saiyan God wore off, he retained that feeling of God Ki, though he had not perfected it, however having known what it was like, he was able to improve his Ki control as a regular Super Saiyan, to the point that it still gave him a significant power boost.

Only after he finally mastered Ki control, was he able to go SS Blue.

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>>154678274
>Therefore, the DBS anime is considered "the most" canon, or the "hard" canon because it is the closest creation to the creator's mindset.
wrong.

what is OP from

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>>154678274
You are right about 4 a lot ^. Drawn as a sketch by toriyama himself.

>>154678274
You want to discuss stuff but you think the anime is canon?
>Opinion discarded

>>154678208
Why not SSB4KK? It's already past the point of no return in the deviant art cesspool.

>>154678274
>Dragon Ball Online's history is considered "hard" canon
Videogames will never be considered hard canon until it actually shows up in the anime or manga's continuity. It is not part of the same publication therefore bares no weight.

>>154678180
>>154678313

It does seem that God ki is almost its own technique, and producing and managing it is some other shit entirely.

I think we might see that Blue is a trap/stop gap measure to match up with actual divine beings, and Goku or Vegeta will figure out some actual divinity in base form.

>>154678320
Nothing in your image or your post proves anything against my statement, but have your (You), buckaroo. Facts are facts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction)

"In addition to his role as series creator, Akira Toriyama is also credited for the "original story & character design concepts" of the new anime directed by Kimitoshi Chioka".

"The anime is being adapted into a companion manga by Toriyama alongside artist Toyotarō, author behind the official Resurrection 'F' manga adaptation. It began serialization in the August 2015 issue of V Jump, which was released on June 20".

Anime is directly from Toriyama. Toyotaro adopts it. Anime is the #1 canon. Manga is the #2 canon. If the #2 contradicts the #1, then the #1 is canon and #2 is not.

>>154678509
>Toyotaro adopts it.
Wrong Toyotaro adapts the plot outlines ya dingus.

Reminder Goku gets beaten by superman and all his feats are non canon shit.

>>154678509
Anime isn't directly from Toriyama. If it was it would have been a lot better, the guys not completely senile

>>154678352
I don't think there was anything wrong with the idea of the super saiyan 4 form, perhaps if they called it Shin Super Saiyan, or True Super Saiyan it wouldn't have lead to so much SSJ5~9 nonsense

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>>154678509
>>154678575
Anime:

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2016/05/09/future-trunks-arc-announced-dragon-ball-super/

I write an outline of the entire plot, then the script writers break it up into episodes, expanding on things, changing things around, or adding in new bits as need be.
Even I haven’t checked the final script yet.

Let’s enjoy this together (laughs)!!

just woke up from a nap, so uh, what did I miss?

>>154678598
Zelda dropped to 97

>>154678509
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2016-10-26/dragon-ball-super-toyotarou/.107579


It sounds like you have a pretty close working relationship with Akira Toriyama. He gives you the outline and you make changes. What is the most interesting thing about working with him?

[Every month, I'll create a storyboard for him to review, and then he'll give me input and suggest changes. When I'm working with Toriyama, there are many portions he gives me props for coming up with, but he is very particular about other things and always points them out for me to correct. And when he corrects me, I think “Wow, I guess I don't completely understand the way he looks at things,” so his corrections and feedback are incredibly accurate and helpful. It's a lot of fun to be able to get closer to his way of thinking]


Finally let's not forget that the manga was ahead of the anime dummy.

>>154678570
I never understood the Super cuckery

So you've got a guy who basically absorbs sunlight and gives him super powers, and the closer he is to the sun the stronger he is

Yet people brag about him surviving the Big Bang. Wouldn't he just be the strongest he's ever been in that circumstance? He's literally sitting in all of the stars all of the time

>>154678598
Everyone got laid with their waifu's, you missed out.

>>154678575
Given how poorly Zamasu and Black's character are being handled in the manga despite his supposed larger involvement I'd say he is a terrible writer.

>>154678596
Ok, so that means Manga is canon too, perhaps more so as he is directly involved with it as with the anime he only sends a skeleton script and allows Toei's writers to interpret it as they will (laughs)!!

Only DB and DBZ are canon. I watched the movie with Berus and thought: What a rubbish, Goku claims Berus isn't evil when he obviously is, also the story had the calibre of a bad fanfic. This is not DB anymore.

>>154678656
>poorly
I hope you don't find them handled good in the anime. This is just my assumption though, you're free to prove me wrong

>>154677317
none of that shit is canon, the only true timeline is "future" trunk's timeline where the z fighters are dead.

>>154678422
Even if they're written by the main author, considered by him to be "a new chapter in Dragon Ball", where he is the direct supervisor of the project?

If you wanted to use the argument of a different media/medium being used to expand the story, then you could say information revealed on "Pottermore" isn't the canon of the Harry Potter universe because it's a website and not a book. You could say "Harry Potter and the Cursed Child" isn't canon because it's a play and not a book. (Sorry to use HP as an example, but it was the quickest, most relevant example that comes to mind).

I don't know, I've never really agreed with that argument completely because times and tastes change and it leaves no room for spiritual growth of a series. If you wanted to think of it as "soft" canon, then I'd be okay with that, but I think the facts at hand put it in the "hard" canon category.

"Hey all you Korean DragonBall fans, it’s been a long time. It’s me, Akira Toriyama.
This new DragonBall story that we're delivering to you this time begins in a world 250 years after the manga.
There, Earthlings, Saiyans, Namekians, Majins, and others all live together, but it seems that something is wrong.
What occurred in those 250 years, and what’s happening now? Please enjoy this new DragonBall world as you resolve this.
Everyone on the excellent staff really drew a lot of new characters and machines for me. Of course, I supervise them all. There are also a lot of designs in there that I drew myself.
When I actually got to see the pictures in motion, I was truly impressed by their high quality!
It’ll make me happy if you fully enjoy this new world of adventure, this time online"!

Akira Toriyama, 2011.

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>>154678671
Yep, the manga gets actual oversight, redrawn panels and even his own speech bubbles whereas FujiTV and Toei's adaptation is a jumbled up cartoon show in comparison.

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>>154678692
>liking one-note villains

>>154678555
I literally quoted a magazine that refers to an interview with the cast and AT that states otherwise. Here's your (You).

>>154678709
Stop talking, the Future Trunks arc alone already contradicts any expanded universe lore created by the Time Patrolling Trunks in DBOnline.

>>154678748
>DBonline
Seriously?

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>>154678735
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-super-manga-vol-2-toyotaro-sensei-super-anatomy/

>What’s your process working with Toriyama-sensei?!
I draw a rough draft based on Toriyama-sensei‘s ORIGINAL STORY, then I send it to my editor, who gets sensei to check it. It’s an honor to be able to give concrete form to sensei‘s ideas, but sometimes sensei will send over a part he drew himself, which sends me into an uproar, going back and forth between being all hyped up and feeling really down in the dumps.


#BTFO

>>154678575
I said it was the closest thing to him. Please read my first post again. Everything is a community and committee nowadays, even a 30 year old cartoon.

Since that it was the closest thing to him, then it would be considered "hard" canon.

>>154678748
>zamasu kills pink time kai
>kill all of trunks whacky hijinks time travel friends
>he returns to earth
>being attacked by zamasu
>shit happens as usual from there out

>>154677939
>Or have I been mistaken in thinking that SSB is just using SSJ while in God form?

Yeah you are mistaken. Its the contrary actually

>2017
>people still don't get that god ki in regular base form isn't in the manga
You can temporaly obtain the base god form (red one) via ritual or be properly trained (by Whis, for example) to go god at will... and then if you are a SS too you can go above (SSGSS), that's all.

>>154678816
>be properly trained (by Whis, for example) to go god at will
Wait what when was this ever stated?

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WHEN?

can /a/ rate my tribute for dragon ball gt?
http://vocaroo.com/i/s01CxOSfdHDN

>>154678748
Why, because of his hair color? There is no set date to when Trunks became a "time patroller", so your argument is flawed with the data. There simply isn't enough supplemental information to prove your statement.

Nice headcanon, though. Have a (You) on me, fren.

>>154677661
Where Toriyama currently is

>>154678870
Shit form. SSJ2 Trunks powered up to be almost equal to SSJ3 Goku, but without any of the negative side effects from SSJ3, such as the ridiculously high rate of which it burn energy.

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>>154678880

>>154678694
I don't even need to prove the anime is better, manga is just that terrible.

There is not even a character arc for zamasu or black in the manga so the comparison is asinine as there is nothing to work with.

>>154678897
>believing a fan service korean videogame to be canon to the manga or anime
no anon, the headcanon autist is (You)

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>>154678942
WHEN?

>>154678869
Never its pure speculation

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>>154678880
>i don't speak fluent in japan

>>154678880
Try again but with the Funi translated OP.

>>154678778
>ORIGINAL STORY
>"Toriyama-sensei does corrections, making the planet larger and adding dialogue. Toyotarō-sensei then makes the final image based on these corrections".

And Toriyama corrects his inaccuracies, making the manga a "soft" canon that's a companion telling of the anime's events, which're the "hard" canon.

Thanks for the article I can use to reinforce my claims. Nice cherry picking of the statements, though. You should write for VOX. Here's a (You).

>In the next exciting DBS chapter, Goku mistakenly takes Roshi's hostess bar discount card instead of the Mafuba seal. Also, Vegeta goes SSG.
https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/842612821179289600


HAHAHAHAHAH THIS IS EVEN WORSE THAN THE ANIME
>toyo goku is smarter!
TOYOKEKS BTFO

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Is goku x zelda canon?

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>>154679059
>anime's events, which're the "hard" canon.
kek, keep repeating yourself anon, it won't make anything you say true though.
Just because Toriyama corrects the manga, doesn't mean it's any less authentic.
The anime doesn't even get that privilege..

>>154678995
Its story is written by Toriyama. Its production is supervised by Toriyama. It's considered a "new adventure" in the Dragon Ball universe.

If that doesn't make something canon, then Super must also be regarded as not canon.

>>154678942
>doesn't train to negate drain considering Goku developed SSJ3 while dead, didn't suffer drain while dead & Gotenks used the form just fine

>>154679128
>Its story is written by Toriyama
Source?

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>>154679091
How will Toyofags ever recover?

>>154679128
It's merely extended universe canon that is not "hard canon" you retard.
Videogame only lore will never be "hard canon" to the manga or anime unless it actually appears.

>>154678942
Also it makes you look like a big goony retard with no eyebrows.

I'm pretty sure people forget the manga started out as promotional material for the movie, it was never concieved with the intent of being the primary source of canon.

If it was intended to be its own thing toyble would have covered the ending of RoF but he didn't.

>>154678869
Well if you wants to think anyone can randomly train until be a SSG... you can.

>>154679170
At least he didnt forgot it

>>154679209
Piccolo confirmed ssg when?

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RUNNIN IN THE NINTIES

>>154679242
When you ask Toriyama

I haven't been on this thread for a while. Popped in and the mangacucks and animefags are still having autistic canon arguments. Never change guys.


Also

>Implying GT isn't canon.

>>154679147
Gotenks used the form for a few minutes, then it completely drained all his energy reserves, which is why he turned back to regular Gotenks. Goku couldn't even maintain his SSJ3 form against kid Buu for more than 5 minutes. Meanwhile SSJ2 can be maintained essentially as long as SSJ, which is forevers if you can maintain your ki balanced. And it can be boosted to be as strong as SSJ3. It's a shit form m8.

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How reliable is this guy?
The shit he tweets makes no sense

>>154679336
I'll wait and see but this is a horrible inconsistency if true.

>>154678942
Goku never perfected SSJ3
He could have done it.

>>154679128
The consumer should decide if it's canon. He pays for it and he has the right to an opinion. DB Super doesn't have the quality of DB(Z). To me it doesn't happen in any time line in the DB universe. It's another story in another universe. Even authors can't wreck the universes they have created if the consumers ignore them.

>>154679336
>Calls it be name
I thought he came from burgerland.

Are you guys kidding me?

Are we really going to complain and assume shit when the translations let alone the fucking chapter isn't even out yet?

I already know you guys are stupid but this is just fucking pathetic.

>>154679336
perhaps the negative stamina effect only comes in effect if you channel the blue form, perhaps going blue for an instant during an attack alone can't proc the downside of the stamina drain.

>>154679091
Manga Goku is smarter but Goku in general at the end of the day is a naive dumb character. It's just the difference between dumb and completely retarded.

>>154679378
Perhaps you should stop making so many headcanons paco

>>154679377
there isn't that much complaining happening tbqh.

>>154679122
I keep repeating it because you're ignoring its sentiments reaffirmed by my sources while claiming its false. Repeating something doesn't make it any more or any less true, but since you're not debunking the claim with any substance, nor is there a substitute for a better descriptor, I'm forced to do as such in this lovely discussion we're having.

You're implying authenticity to be 100% factual representation, which is not what we're discussing, nor what I'm debating. We're discussing the canon, meaning what is historically accurate within the different publications of 1 literary universe, and I'm debating the fact that the anime is 1) the closest thing to Toriyama's original story and because of that 2) it has precedence over the manga when conflicts arise. That doesn't mean one is better or more authentic than the other.

Both can be considered canon. When differences arise, and only when that occurs, the anime supersedes the manga factually. The differences should always be regarded as minimal or inconsequential to the overall plot, since all mediums are approved by Toriyama.

>Just because the creator of the intellectual property corrects an adaptation of his work, doesn't mean it's wrong.

A-okay frendo.

I hate vegeta.
He must go already.
Annoying saiyan.
He must go back to space and be forgotten.

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>>154679405
>meaning what is historically accurate within the different publications of 1 literary universe
>Toyo and Tori VS FujiTV and Toei
Gee, I wonder which side is more canon...

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Untrained goku ssg can handle black ssr.
Toyo is going full retard

>>154679378
That's just headcanon.

Even if it ends up being like you say this shit is just poor writing because shit like that needs to be established before it becomes plot relevant- otherwise it is nothing more than forced and shitty asspull

>>154679326
>it can be boosted to be as strong as SSJ3.

The worst dumbest faggot canon breaking bullshit ever concieved.

SSJ2 has always been just that shitty form that was only cool when Gohan did it and never again. But the cock sucking fujo pandering fuckwads decided that they wanted pretty forms and outright BUTCHERED ALL CANON to make this deeply fucking stupid thing work.

Nothing in db has any sense of scale anymore and none of the battles have any real weight or meaning.

It's all flash with no substance and no weight. A ghastly puppet show where they use the rotting corpse of DBZ as puppets to put on some horrifying ridiculous farcical play.

>>154679170
This actually seems like it could be really funny if handled correctly?

I vaguely remember Goku struggling with kanji before.

>>154679451
>Zamasu is now SSG tier despite being SS tier chapters ago

What is this shit?

>>154679484
funny if your a zipperhead maybe.

>>154679369
Considering how much Goku trains and the time between when he first got SSJ3 and now, there's no reason Goku shouldn't have that shit mastered that besides the writers just not caring anymore because SSJG exists.

>>154679495
You're on an anime rape fetishist message board and you make nip jokes?

Come on, bro.

>>154679469
well if it makes you feel any better, I'm just talking about the manga canon. In the anime SSJ3 is still leagues better than SSJ2, as SSJ3 Goku KO's SSJ2 trunks in a single punch in the anime. Not that it matters now, since those forms are obsolete compared to SSB and SSRage.

>>154679453
>That's just headcanon.
What do you expect when we're literally discussing unexplained leaks?

>>154678208
i dont see why not tbqh

>>154679167
There're a few Kazenshu posts about old interviews Toriyama did about DBO. I posted a quote from him on the Korean launch site in this thread. In that post, he states that it's a continuation of the Dragon Ball manga's story, 250 years later.

"Next, they talk a bit about the story, and Akira Toriyama's involvement. Basically, they say that the story of Dragon Ball Online can't be the same as the original story, because it's set 250 years later, and they need to have new events for the present setting. They say that they're trying to implement the most original stories, and that everything is produced under the supervision of the original author, Akira Toriyama, and Shueisha, the copyright holders".

It's the case of Super again, really. Toriyama creates the original story in a "committee" like setting, and he has the final say.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17500&start=40

>>154679453
>needs to be established before it becomes plot relevant- otherwise it is nothing more than forced and shitty asspull
>needs to be established before
says fucking who?

>>154679431
Tell that to Toriyama

>>154679451
>Untrained goku ssg can handle black ssr.
He's talking about Zamasu though?

>>154679581
Ok but toryiama never wrote it he just supervised it anf approved the ideas.

>>154679613
Just post the entire chapter anon fuck

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>>154679613
Young Vegeta is so kawaii.

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>>154679613

>>154679626
>>154679634
Fucking retards

>>154677317
SSG Vegeta looks like a bigger ningen than SSG Goku

>>154679645
definitely kawaii af.

>>154679649
???

>>154679091
>h-hey! Manga-Goku made one mistake that anime-Goku made too! T-toyokeks BTFO!
God, you're pathetic

>>154679372
>The consumer should decide if it's canon. He pays for it and he has the right to an opinion.

Retarded the post.

>>154679645
>>154679613
The fuck happened to vegeta? He looks skinny as fuck

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So do you guys believe SSB Kaioken is going to happen in the manga or not? In my opinion it will happen despite what some people say, Toyo is just saving it for an enemy that actually warrants it like the Grand Priest.

>>154679718
you revert to a youthful and skinny appearance in Red form.

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>>154678880
>that stuttering
>that anxiety
>a slash a
Fucking hell this is cringy and soul crushingly depressing.

I bet you are a canon autist the one that shits up the thread with your shitty bait.

>>154679718
It's clearly stated you get skinner as a SSG, retard.

>>154679734
Do you revert back when turning off SSG? Not sure if this was ever mentioned.

>>154679767
you must considering Goku did.

>>154679745
No that was a toei error. Toryiama described ssg has a form that only makes your hair / eyes red nothing about becoming skinnier

>>154679171
Again, you're splitting the "medium hairs" argument again, which I've already shot down by example in this thread. I'm fine with someone considering it to be "soft" canon, for the reasons you've described.

I just believe in the modern world, where every piece of media we see, from news broadcasts to movies to pro wrestling, is(pardon the pun) drawn up by groups of people, to use that as an argument for something to be regarded as a not substantiated canon is ignorant. By that same logic, Super shouldn't be considered canon at all.

The outline of the story comes from the creator of the universe. The game's production is overseen by the creator of said universe. The creator corrects things that need to be corrected. It is a continuation of the most canonically correct medium of the universe's story. If that doesn't make something canon in the modern age of entertainment, then nothing does.

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>>154678880

>>154679585
Anyone who isn't retarded?

You can't just establish a fatal weakness and completely ignore it a couple of chapters later.

>>154679781
>describe
You don't need to describe when its flat out shown.

>>154679730
I think it will, no doubt. It would be weird to have such an extreme power up be "filler". Unlike the anime though, Toyo realizes how overpowered that shit is. Just a straight up 10x the power of SSB, fucking crazy. Knowing Goku can do that ruins all the tension in the anime, who the fuck can match that?

>>154679783
By your ningen logic DBH is canon.

>>154679799
Toyo didnt drew goku skinnier when he became ssg

>>154679810
>Just a straight up 10x the power of SSB
I assumed it was SSB + Base form(x10)
Not SSB x 10

>>154679834
yes he did both times.
>>154677689

>>154679616
Again, it's akin to the case of Super.

He wrote the "original story", the outline, whatever you want to call it, and any adaptations of it has to be okayed by him before it's used.

In modern media, unless it is 100% created by the author(which nothing is anymore), I can't see anything else being more canon than that(which is why I coined the term "hard" canon).

full chapter link when come on be based anons and post the juicy link

>>154679834
Yea he did and clearly it was just shown for Vegeta too.

>>154679798
>and completely ignore it a couple of chapters later.
And who are you to jump to the conclusion that the weakness comes into play for a split second transformation?

>>154679849
??? Doesnt look skinnier like vegeta

>>154679707
That's a good argument that your brain could came up with. Tell me what's tze difference between a bad fanfic and DB Super. The quality is the same, so both are not canon. Somehow some people think the author deserves respect for every rubbish he or his "ghostwriters" make.

>>154679447
Toriyama corrects all mediums of DBS. You need to stop using this argument because it has been proven wrong several times over. It's making you sound like an idiot.

>>154679887
>canon depends on quality
Don't even reply to this guy anymore.

>>154679904
>Toriyama corrects all mediums of DBS
He hasn't even checked the final script of the Trunks arc. (laughs)

>>154679336
Wtf did toyo already forgot his own rules?
Not this shit again

>>154679919
>Toei
(raughs)

>>154678880
HOLY FUCKING SHIT

>>154679943
I think using SSB for a fraction of a second is his answer to his own rule.
Seems plausible but there's no point jumping to conclusions as if he has somehow forgotten.

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>>154679855
>>154679783

Jesus Christ, you monkeys.

Canon is only important if you're discussing an actual quality of the show or whatever.

Does DBO somehow reveal how Blue works in the anime?
The show is its own thing, the manga will show what was actually intended and regardless we'll have to suck Akira off before he decides to utter a few sentences wrapping it all together somehow.

>>154679872
If you're arguing about the Blue stamina drain its just sort of there as an excuse for why Vegeta jobbed hard to Hit.
I don't think they've shown it not draining stamina after use yet.

In the anime they just pop in and out whatever whenever because it doesn't matter

>>154679828
>DBH
Except he doesn't write that, therefore it's not.

>>154679810
>Knowing Goku can do that ruins all the tension in the anime
I've always assumed this was the reason Goku never did Kaioken as a Super Saiyan. I'm talking from the writer's perspective, we know the in story reason why before some sperg jumps on me. Imagine SSJ3 Kaoiken x10 or x20? Kid Buu would be nothing.

Kaoiken is such a broken power up, you can tell Toriyama was just writing as it came to him. He tried to give the Kaoiken the body weakness but drawbacks like that are always meaningless when we're talking about the main character in a popular shonen manga. Those after effects will never be serious enough to matter.

>>154679976
>I think using SSB for a fraction of a second is his answer to his own rule.
Literally contradicts it though you cant switch it on and off and yes if there is no valid explanation behind this this is indeed a major problem

>>154680017
>Literally contradicts it though you cant switch it on and off
No rules have been established about using it for a fraction of a second.

>>154679912
You're just a little upset because the essence of DB(Z) and DB Super isn't the same. Without the quality, DB loses its essence and becomes a bad fanfic / DB Super. Therefore you have to admit DB Super isn't canon but you don't want to admit it.

>>154679489
>Zamasu
>SS tier
Not in the manga

>>154679326
This is identical to many others. Various transformations started inefficient before training. Even the Kaio ken was.

>>154680036
You're right the anime is not quality but it was never canon to begin with.

>>154679980
>Canon is only important if you're discussing an actual quality of the show or whatever.

Actually it isn't.

Quality isn't tied to canonicity, FTrunks TV special was far better than the manga.

Bardocks' special wasn't an abortion ripoff of superman like DB minus was.

>>154680031
There is a rule about it switching it on and off . It doesnt fucking matter how long the delay is the said action is still caused.
You can also say it was never mentioned that you can use it for a min/or any time at all. Doesnt mean it doesnt count

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDIUzbEcbJA
What made Black and Zamasu great villains is completely absent in the manga.

>>154680094
You can believe whatever you want it means jack shit until the actual chapter comes out.

I hope the scans will be out in the morning

Goodnight.

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Why is Note so pure?

>>154679872
Why are you trying to defend this shit?

There is no concievable way for this shit to work.

it is either a forced asspull or it blatant contradiction.

You can't get away with explaining this garbage at the last second because that's a textbook asspull.

>>154680125
>female saiyans aren't ripped
90's Toriyama wouldn't let your spaghettiness slide.

>>154680119
I am just going with from what we know so far. You brought up stuff that doesn't even exist to justify your point. Also you're the one replying to me in the first place. I am just concerned that there wont be too much bullshit in terms of writin because I am mangareader only

>>154679980
>Canon is only important if you're discussing an actual quality of the show or whatever.

Agreed, but the "universe" and history of it is a quality aspect to the show to some people, including me. I love the lore in Dragonball.

I've stated several times that the differences between the two publications should be regarded as inconsequential, but you can see how different tellings of the same events could arise constituency problems. Alas, here we are!

>The show is its own thing, the manga will show what was actually intended

That's just your feelings. Citation needed. However, they indeed are their own things.

>regardless we'll have to suck Akira off before he decides to utter a few sentences wrapping it all together somehow.

Agreed.

>>154680107
fuggins

>>154680155
>it is either a forced asspull
Revealing a new technique combo is automatically labelled as a forced asspull now? You have no idea how SSB interacts with SSG.
Vegeta went from Yellow to Blue, going from Red to Blue has never been documented before.

>>154680176
>>154680090
>>154680058
>>154680036
>>154679980
>>154679912
>>154679855
>>154679828

No such thing as "canon" when it comes to the Japanese. They have 0 concept of it and you are all fighting over literally nothing. Nips are consumers first. They care for enjoyment not if something is coherent. You are man children trying to take a kids comic seriously.

>>154680090
by 'a quality of the show' I meant, an aspect of it, i.e. discussing the specific powers available to Goku.
Then canon kind of matters

Otherwise I agree, I don't care if the movies were mostly toei nonsense, I still liked the bits of lore they added, even if it was just to a loose anime canon.

>That's just your feelings

I didn't think it was my feelings, I figured it was common knowledge that the manga is written as the author mostly intends for the story to play out, but the studio has to adlib things.

Isn't the thread littered with that one fag always posting how Akira's apprentice is basically proxy canon, and that Toei has to make due with crib notes?

>>154680247
>You are man children trying to take a kids comic seriously.
Don't blame people for trying to correct false statements.

>>154680247
Wrong.
If the japs didnt care how come myiamoto published a new timeline straight after the new zelda got released?

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>>154680247
>No such thing as "canon" when it comes to the Japanese. They have 0 concept of it

>>154680247
wtf i like yellow people now!

>>154678131
What is even the point of turning SSJ when blue is better?

>>154680284
This got retconed senpai after botw

>>154680247
>discussing a story
>taking a story seriously

how are these the same thing?
We aren't sitting here discussing how many squats a day before we cultivate enough ki to lift our gluten free bodies a quarter inch off the ground for 0.001 seconds

>>154678153
How about that absorbing thing? Goku was able to nullify/absorb Beerus's blasts. Is that a thing in the manga with SSR?

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>>154680176
oops, I was replying to you in the second half of this >>154680270

>>154678262
I see that being possible for SS2, but SS3 might be a bit harder. If SSG3 becomes a thing, I believe it will be a bit like SSB with Kaioken, in that it quickly drains you and can only be used for short periods of time.

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>>154680284
It's always been fun for me trying to imagine alternate takes for the setting. Imagine one where, instead of transformations being the big thing, it was fusion instead.

So essentially, both the anime and the manga follow the drafts layed out by Toriyama, with the anime being looser with the drafy than the manga. Either way, they both end up with the same conclusion. So why the fuck are you people fighting about stupid shit like which is canon when they both come from the same source?

>>154680302
>canon isn't a thing!
>that canon thing was changed to another different canon thing!

>>154678578
Or if it was called Super Saiyan God

:^)

>>154680328
no he neutralises it with his own Kamehameha instead of tanking it.

>>154680361
I am not the one who said canon doesnt exist

>>154680353
Apparently one is more real than the other. We need to figure out which one is the realest and argue about it incessantly online when the creator only extend the series for money in the first place.

>>154680367
but then you're missing out on the cool Oozaru call back

>>154679091
Pretty sure that still makes anime Goku more retarded.

>>154680397
If you gauge how canon something is by how much the creator is involved in each project then clearly the manga is more "canon" than the anime.
Now please let's just enjoy this together! (laughs)

>>154680374
Ah, thanks for clarifying for me. Kinda sad - I liked the healing factor and energy absorption ability.

So, is Future Trunks not doing anything in this arc for the manga?

>>154680414
How so?

>>154680458
He will come in for the win after Vegetto fails.

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>tfw it feels good

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>>154680328
Beerus throws his giant death ball

Goku goes "Saiyan God is telling me I'm just scratching the surface!"

then kamehameha's and cancels it out in a big poof

battle over. I think this took 4 or 5 episodes in the anime

>>154680458
>Completely written out
>Or Time Patrol Trunks arc
>Or he comes in towards the end of the arc to kill both Zeno and Grand Priest in one attack saving the day and getting redemption

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>>154680512
You should've linked this page.

>>154680494
>Goku will forever have to live with having to do the ritual to become a God, while Vegeta achieved it of his own will

>>154680542
(laughs)

>>154680464
>how does ssj4 callback to Oozaru

I don't know. I guess Oozaru is totally uninvolved 100%

>>154677317

So I'm only lately getting into DB, and I've seen the original series and like 50 episodes of Z. Do they ever retcon the whole "Shenron can't grant the same wish twice" thing?

>>154677317
>>154677403
So is red > blue or what? I thought it was the other way around.

>>154680615
>Z
Watch Kai and no it hasn't been retcon. An explanation is given.

>>154680616
We don't know the fine details but as of now it's pretty much:
SSG = efficient access to God Ki but not as much power output
SSB = SSJ + God Ki, massive stamina drain but massive power output.

>>154678720
All I see is Tori having to unfuck up everything Toyo feels compelled to do, like an editor.

>>154680616
Blue is stronger than Red

the Manga gives us the caveat that if you drop out of Blue you take a massive power loss

We don't have any good details on Red as it behaves differently in Manga, Movie and Anime

Manga
>You're strong now
>You can hop back into this form whenever

Movie
>All your muscles are gone
>You're strong now
>it wears off but also you keep the power because you're goku

Anime
>You're strong now
>Also you have infinite ki
>your punches break reality
>you can regenerate also
>it wears off
>but you stay strongish because we have to fill episodes

>>154679781
Well I guess this confirms Toei is the canon holder. TOYOFAGS BLOWN THE FUCK OUT

>Toriyama outline: Goku didn't bring the Mefuba seal

>Toyotaro: OK I got it... shit, isn't the seal? Fuck..!
>Toei: Seal? I forgot lol XD ya got a funny look on yer face Zamasu XD

>>154679613
>>154679645
Too fucking cool

>>154678146
>A Super Saiyan God, that has become a Super Saiyan. Therefore, it is Super Saiyan with God Ki

>People will defend this

>>154680748
Mondo Cool

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>>154680159
But anon, this is Dragon Ball where deception apperances are everywhere. Frieza's final form is smaller and less monstrosity than his previous two. Cell shrank when he became perfect. Majin Buu, a death spewing monster, is a fat pink blob.. Naturally it's the cute little girl who will kick down the door demanding Snu Snu as the big, muscular man screams for his mother.

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WHERE'S THE FULL CHAPTER?

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>>154678243
>lol jk saiyans could always breathe in space
I kek'd

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Oh boy, is it Heroes time?

>>154680881
>no nightmare timeline where the RR Army won early on in Dragon Ball and went on to android galactic domination

>>154680857
but you aren't the yuyafag

>>154680928
Nope, they'd have to deal with King Piccolo

Then Babidi's forces

Then a Fridge would come around and kick all their asses in the name of justice

>>154680665
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-super-manga-vol-1-tori-toyo-interview-web-version/

Toriyama:
I’m glad to hear it! I’ll have to thank them if I ever get the chance. Speaking of reproducing my style, Toyotarō-san is amazing at it!
Toyotarō:
No no, not at all! Seriously… The more I draw, the more I realize the gap between us… (sweat).

Toriyama:
Don’t be so hard on yourself! You might actually be the closest to my style. There aren’t many people who can manage that! Well, maybe there are people who can imitate my pictures, but not many artists can pull off an entire chapter the way you can! Your storyboards are really tight!

Speaking of the manga, I want to ask you two about how you put the manga together. I hear Toriyama-sensei checks the storyboards for each chapter.
Toriyama:
That’s right.
Toyotarō:
Since Chapter 1 I’ve used Toriyama-sensei‘s plot as a basis, but have been allowed to expand on it.

Toriyama:
It’s better that way.

Back when Toriyama-sensei was drawing the manga, the animators would use his manga panels as reference, imitating the composition and things like that. And now it seems that the animators are likewise using Toyotarō-sensei‘s manga as reference.
Toriyama:
Oh, that’s good! That should keep them on track!
Toyotarō:
Really?… I still can’t believe I lucked into this job (sweat).

>>154680665

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-super-manga-vol-1-tori-toyo-interview-book-version/

You’ve loved Dragon Ball since you were a child, so how does it feel to be drawing it yourself now?
Toyotarō:
But I’m not! Not at all… The more I draw, the clearer the gap between me and Toriyama-sensei becomes (sweat).
Toriyama:
That’s not true! You might be the closest person to match my art style, even counting the animators.

Toyo:
No way!

Toriyama:
You’re really good at composition! It looks so cool; these days there’s no way I could draw such energetic artwork! Whenever I supervise anime and whatnot, there’s always something that bugs me and that I’ll ask to have fixed. But when I look at your storyboards, I can just take it easy. I can give it the OK in no time flat; it really makes things convenient (laughs).

Toyo:
Oh no… This whole time I was afraid of adding to your frustrations. Since the original story you give me is text, I constantly have your manga by my side as I draw. I don’t want readers to say it doesn’t feel like Dragon Ball… But at the same time, I also want to stretch my imagination and come up with brand new action and different kind of expressions.

Toriyama:
Just go wild! I won’t mind a bit (laughs).

Toriyama-sensei, what advice do you have for Toyo-sensei?
Toriyama:
Frankly… I’m perfectly satisfied with things the way they’re going (laughs).
Toyo:
U-Um… Really? There’s nothing you think needs to be fixed or thrown out? Don’t hold back for my sake… (sweat).

Toriyama:
Hahahaha (loud laughter). Not really… (thinks about it a little bit). Nope, not a thing! Well OK… If I have to say something, then I guess your compositions would be even better if you utilized more diverse angles. Also, I think it would be great if you included more of your own original ideas. I’m really grateful to you. I never thought an artist like you would come along to draw the continuation of my story!

>>154681000
>And now it seems that the animators are likewise using Toyotaro-sensei's manga as reference? But they haven't for a long time considering how far ahead they are. Do you think Toei's just pulling everything out of their ass? No, Tori writes it (to some extent) and Toei adapts it. Toyo then adapts the same thing but it merely comes off as a supplementary text to the original (that which came out first).

>>154681065
Manga came a month before the anime and was ahead until Frost vs Goku in the U6 arc.

>>154681000
>>154681054
NOT canon!

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Maybe we just need an omake or some sort of up-to-date Dragon Ball chronicle/lore book just to understand the rules and outlines of the current story (written by Toriyama himself of course), as well as what's going on behind the scenes. Current canon is getting too shaky and nothing is really being explained well.

>>154678178
because you're short

>>154681176
cutie doge poster post more doggos

>>154681000
>>154681054
he's honestly being humble to a fault

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>>154681226
Not that guy, but you can have this doggo

>>154681267
such a cute doggy very sleepy yes

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>>154679091
Not as dumb as straight up FORGETTING to take the seal at all.

It's all fun and games for Toeishills until new manga content comes out and their delusions crash down around them.

>>154681226
Link test
https://instagram.com/p/BRmKvrJgOlR/

pls post more cute doggies

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>>154681391
You come to the wrong neighborhood pal, this is /a/

>>154680825
>That's right boys, mondo cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCfOSoVeCps

>>154681342
that is so cute requesting a webm of this

>>154681318
>first travel
>Vegeta: Are you ready, Kakarotto?
>Goku: Sure! *forgot the beans*

>last travel
>Vegeta: Are you ready, Kakarotto?
>Goku: Sure! *forgot there's a seal*

How Goku remembering that they need a seal but taking by mistake some Roshi's card is worse? Are you just mad, anon?

>>154681414
this is a cute doge thread now

>>154681458
Shit, mean to reply >>154679091

>>154681458
Anime Goku does look extra retarded for having to go back and forth to the future like 5 times

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puppy thread

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>>154681505

>>154680107
They're not great villains: just entertaining ones.

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no this cute turtle thred nao

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>>154681505
Don't bother, you can get banned for posting off topic shit.

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>>154681553

>>154679875
Vegeta, who weighs less than Goku's 137 pounds (yeah seriously), would look even thinner.

>>154681605
Seems like he's stating the asshole ran/got away.

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come on anons puppy post with us the water is great

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>>154679091
>Manga Goku
>In a rush to learn the technique to get ready for the next (and final) trip since a day already passed in the future as well and Trunks could likely be already dead
>after he finishes, he remembers to get the seal, rushes back into Roshi's house, sees a paper on the counter and grabs it, thinking this is the seal without taking a moment to see what he's looking at because he's in such a hurry

>Anime Goku
>"The fuck's a seal?"


Of course, I made up that scenario but it's likely to happen anyway and at least it's something the reader could relate to. it doesn't make Goku look like a moron like "lmao forgot the senzu beans/seal"
Still it's a stupid and Toyo could have just repeated the "Zamasu teleports the beans and burns them" but turned it into "Black teleports to the pot and breaks Zamasu out [after Zamasu was sealed into it]"

>>154681662
>Black teleports to the pot and breaks Zamasu out
Goku don't bringing the seal looks like Toriyama's outline, so...

>>154681000
>I still can’t believe I lucked into this job
Hes living his dream

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>>154681763

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>>154681792

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>>154681835

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I really like how SSG and SSB are pretty much the same god form but one gives you more strength while the other one is more "stable" about the energy (as SS2 and SS3 except that use both god forms actually work). It's like they need stop being a morons and be more strategic if they want to handle god's power properly

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>>154681856

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>>154681887

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>>154681905

>>154681763
"Gowasu sama!"
an incompetant god that doesn't have the power to control the universe, what do you know?" -Z
"He's alive!" -Mai
"Mai, with this bike take Gowasu and and run away as far as possible."
"I will halt them until father and co show up"

>>154680010
>SSBKK Vegetto blows all 79 other fighters out of the ring just by powering up

>>154681883
>they need stop being a morons
That's why SSB is just a stronger SS in the anime

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>>154681927
>Black and Zamasu altercation
WUT?

>>154681961
Did... Black just get forced to fuse with Zamasu?

>>154681961
>Zamasu isn't a fucking fag, he actually have balls in the manga
Based Toyo

>>154681792
”Osu! sorry to keep you waiting!" -G
"Um if you have a senzu please first give it to Gowasu sama!" -M
"You can solo him right?"-G
"Of course" -V
"tsk" -V
"Supreme Kai is here as well..." -Goku
”You're looking "prestigious", you found some new transformation?" - Black
"Perhaps?" -V

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>>154682002
>forced
I don't think so

>>154681835
"Red hair..!?"
"Super Saiyan God?"
"What are you doing?" - Black
"I know now" -V

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>>154681961
Based Zamasu bringing his other self back to his godly senses. Such are the curses of utilising a ningen body
remember KILL EVERY NINGEN

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>>154682016
>"You're looking "prestigious", you found some new transformation?" - Black
>"Perhaps?" - Vegeta

Fucking Toyo I love him

>>154682033
It looks more like Black is like, "Yeah... fuse, right. We'll do that." and he doesn't really want to do it.

>>154681856
"phew, I'm glad we all made it in time" -Goku
"so this is a time machine"
"You hold onto this"
"That Vegeta is transforming into Blue for just the brief moment of his attacks" -Goku
"that's Black!" -Trunks

>>154681887
"You're gonna fight me?" -Z
"Yep, I'm your opponent!" -Goku
"So you've finally figured it out, but just because you've solved it, what can you do about it?" -V
"Let's beat them as the two of us, that way we have the advantage" -Z
"You think you have the luxury to be caring about someone else?" -V