>only "good" version of Kizumonogatari is a Commie

>nyaa
>commie
It's almost like they are somehow related.

Lurk more.

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>>153235649
Examples?

>>153235649
Can you name a better version?

The "Ratings" on nyaa have been bullshit for years, what else is new?

Nepotism
Nepnepotism

>>153235676
But why is it allowed?

>>153235795
I'm not sure what you are talking about.
Why would it not be allowed?

>Waiting on Daiz to answer you
>He never does
Rude.

>>153235826
Don't capitalize greentext.

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>>153235726

>>153235839
>I'm the authority on greentext
Punctuation is a no no, capitalization is optional.

>>153235854
The only reason capitalization has been sort of common for greentext lately is phone posters.

>>153235649
Here we go.

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>>153235684

>>153235958
>lately
Let's not do this. We're here to laugh at Daiz and the meme cartel, not squabble over oldfag-cred.

>>153235954
>Period phrase
>Something that is never said in real life
Every single time. I am OK if things like these are optional (Commie's GuP), but that clearly isn't the case.

>>153236061
Smooth.
If you are going to argue over these rules, then you must permit an appeal to tradition. The rules have never been codified so that's the only way to have any basis for an argument at all.
Everything else is just pulling shit out of your ass.
If you don't want that, don't engage in such arguments at all.

>>153236205
Go Google "greentext stories". Look at the first few results. Check how many have capitalized sentences.

I'll be waiting here when you're ready to apologize for pretending to be an oldfag. I gave you an out, you should have taken it.

>>153236256
Are you arguing /a/ rules by 4chan behavior as a whole now?
/b/ fucking uses greentext for pure emphasis. I doubt if they even remember that it implies a quotation.
I just did the search regardless, and the majority is lowercase anyway.

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>if I can graduate at all
Isn't this incorrect phrasing? You wouldn't say "at all" in a sentence like this. You'd say "I'd be lucky to even graduate."

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>>153236099
I've never heard it used in real life at all, I don't know where they come up with that shit

>>153236374
>Isn't this incorrect phrasing?
No.

>You wouldn't
I might. I'm not sure why you wouldn't, but it's your choice, really.

>>153236322
Search for /a/ greentext stories then. It's still a mixed bag, and my point still stands. I'll be waiting when you're ready to apologize.

>>153236374
I honestly can't think of any difference in what either line would imply, you're gonna have to explain further.

>>153236403
This one's arguably fine because the "my sides" is explained by the "don't make me laugh" plus the fact that she's literally holding her sides. If you'd never heard the meme before you wouldn't be confused. This >>153235954 however is bad because there's no context.

>>153236439
Because the "at all" part indicates that there are various levels of graduation, as if he could graduate "only a little bit" or he could "graduate a lot," whereas using "I'd be lucky to even graduate" would correctly refer to graduation as something you either do or don't do.

>>153236374
Are you ESL? That's a totally normal phrasing in English.

>>153236553
No it isn't.

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>>153236571
I'm a literature major. It's fine, you're just being autistic.

>>153236588
That definition only reinforces my point. There's no extent to which one can graduate. You either graduate or you don't.

>>153236571
Not him, but when ESLfags argue about natural English, it only serves to reinforce the bullshit Daiz spouts. Point out actual mistakes they make, but if English isn't your thing then don't argue about how natural the grammar sounds.

>>153236629
I'm not ESL.

>>153236607
>Graduated with a B grade
>Graduated with a C grade
>Failed to graduate by getting a D grade

Memecartel

Nyaa mods are also huge fuckwits and blithering retards, just look at this trainwreck

https://www.nyaa.se/?page=view&tid=896796

>>153235954
Says herkz the ponyfag

Guy is an insufferable retard.

Firebomb nyaa when

>>153235954
>herkz shitting on Asenshi

Asenshi's is one of the few good fansubbers left now that all we have is garbage meme tier shit from FFF, Commie and CR

>>153236607
One can graduate with barely passing grades or at the top of the class. One can graduate with perfect attendance or with just barely enough attendance to qualify. Regardless, you're being overly pedantic and everyday use of common phrases like this doesn't always strictly follow the dictionary definition. "At all" and "even" are basically synonyms for the vast majority of English speakers. I'd argue that "at all" would even be perfectly in character for Araragi even if it were actually incorrect (it isn't, because language isn't prescriptive) because he's bad at every subject besides math and probably wouldn't pick up on linguistic minutiae like that any more than any other high schooler.

>>153236415
Man, that took a while. I have way too many images in my screencap folder. But it was the only way to make sure that it was actually /a/.
You're right. I remembered incorrectly.

>>153236540
>there are various levels of graduation,
There are.
Have you ever heard of marks?
Moron.

>>153236636
Ok then, "at all" doesn't necessarily implied graded steps in doing something. Sometimes it can like "I didn't sleep at all last night." but sometimes it can be used like "If he doesn't get his act together soon, I'm worried he won't be able to find a job at all."

>>153236745
Also this. "Forget graduating with honors, I'm worried he won't graduate at all."

>>153236766
S'all good. Like I said, we're here to yell at Daiz and Herkz and wait for them to address my posts directly. (They won't)

The Monogatari series is just one long meme. Nisioisin knew what he was doing with Oshino

Does Daiz even know who Herkz is?

>>153236799
>find a job at all.
Finding a job also comes in various levels of quality.
You can work at McDonalds even if your grades are shit and your resume is filled with large gaps of you being a NEET.

>>153236849
I mean yeah, there are different levels of jobs in terms of how good they are, but "finding full time work" is still technically a 1 or a 0.

Anyways, we're digressing.

>>153236889
just got here, but it feels like you're arguing just to argue.

>>153236954
welcome to 4chan

>>153236675
Wrong shit show mate.
https://www.nyaa.se/?page=view&tid=897178

>>153236954
Did you not read my entire post or is this your idea of humor?

>>153237117
Yeah that's the one, what a bunch of insufferable cunts, the lot of them, especially herkz

Fucking obnoxious with their oversized avatars too, really shows how egotistical they are

>>153235649
Buy the BD, the aniplex subs are good.

>>153237117
>Yours is the rage of the powerless. You can't do anything alone because you're incompetent, but still you rage.
>Is there any reason why someone with actual skills should conform to the demands of a humand being as irrelevant as you?

Holy shit, I bet this guy posts on r/atheism too.
>That projection

>>153237117
>that guy talking about being suicidal
>those fedora tipping comments by fnord
Whose side am I supposed to be on here?

>>153237373
Whoever you like, it's your opinion, could be on neither and hate both sides.

>>153237169
>Fucking obnoxious with their oversized avatars too
Didn't they make them that big only because people were complaining about their size?

>>153237373
Any should be fine as long as it's not a ponyfag cartel

>>153236607
there is though. do you think high school transcripts are just a big piece of paper that say GRADUATED or DID NOT GRADUATE?

you hear people all the time saying things like "i just barely graduated" referring to low (but passable) marks

>>153237117
>There are many ways to translate
>But the translators that agree with us are obviously the only correct ones

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>>153237117
literally nothing wrong guys

>>153237117
>closed
Does this happen often?

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>>153237117
>Yours is the rage of the powerless

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>>153237117
>>153238225
nope, nothing wrong

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>>153237117
>>153238225
>>153238276
I still don't see anything

>>153238225
>>153238276
>>153238308
Is this FFF?

I watched their Hibike release, it didn't seem that bad, but I don't know Japanese either and I had no one to point anything out for me.

>>153238334
FFF doesn't touch CR's subs because they are a paragon of translation quality that should be emulated.

>>153235649
The "trusted" and "A+" designations are somewhat arbitrary, and are rendered meaningless because certain well-known uploaders are given priority/favoritism.

>>153238269
There is nothing more dangerous than a man who has nothing to lose.

>>153238364
Then what's the point of them?

>>153238526
Karaoke

>>153238518
I'm going to copy all these comments and spam them until something becomes proper pasta.

>>153237117
>g-gotta close the comments
>wouldn't want to take up precious server space

Censorship is evil in all its forms.

>>153238589
>Censorship is evil in all its forms.
Sorry lad, I can't find any fedora tipping images so quickly.

>>153235649
>"M-muh subdrama!"

>>153238589
>"I must close this comment thread as we're coming dangerously close to running out of bytes. But please feel free to send a message to me and my likeminded bros on twitter if you're still alive tomorrow"

>>153238589
>>153238730
joletb is actually a nice guy and not a cunt like the rest of the mods, though.

>subs
>never
;_;

>>153237117
Can /a/ save this show? Create a [Satania] group and unfuck the script?

>>153239535
/a/ can't even agree on what the correct subs would be.

subtitles drama crack me up
get a life nerds

>>153239765
And what would I do with such a "life", once I have it?

>>153239805
Enjoy chinese cartoons despite meme subs or even better learn japanese so I don't need them

>>153239575
At least /a/ doesn't think "it's the best official script they've seen in a long time," which means they're already leagues ahead.

>>153240028
It's the best official script I've seen in a long time.

the first movie is translated by an anon and miles better than what's shilled on nyaa
the second don't know yet

>>153240092
edited LN fantrans, apparently not awful and no memes

>>153240175
nope this one
https://www.nyaa.se/?page=view&tid=839195

>>153240231
that looks much better, thanks
will never be using the 'no remakes' filter again

>>153237200

I figured there would be a scene release by now

>>153235826
It was like 5am, I made a couple posts and went to bed.

Anyway, it's pretty amusing that people keep posting screencaps of that TL note blog to "prove" how the GabDro subs are "bad" when even the blog in question keeps saying how good of a job the subs are doing in pretty much every post on the show.

Which is pretty sad in itself, because I think it's actually nice that those TL note blogposts exist. I don't actually have anything against TL notes per se. I just don't think they should be necessary reading in the middle of an episode. But as external blog posts? Sure!

>>153242599
How's that blog post about your quitting anime coming along?

>>153242599
If only there was some way to have optional TL notes, so that everyone could choose whether to let such eye cancer blemish the beauty of their anime episodes or not. Imagine if the plebeians could choose between two sets of subtitles, one completely without notes, and another with a handful of them added to explain translations.

Alas, technology has not progressed beyond hardsubs, and subtitle tracks are immutable.

>>153242599
And yet here you are still not responding to what I said in that post, but instead dancing around it and trying to steer the conversation elsewhere to a blog that I never once commented on.

Can't wait to see the inevitable screencaps of you crying on Twitter with your buddies while they tell you "Yeah man, y-you definitely showed him!"

>>153242897
Inline TL notes are pretty dumb even if optional. You're fighting against time if you're trying to make them readable without pausing and even if you require pausing walls of text over the anime just look bad.

It's much better to leave the TL notes to a separate blog post instead. Alternatively, you could put them all after the episodes.

Of course, the main reason why you don't see this being done a lot is because unsurprisingly writing good, long TL notes takes a lot of effort.

Still, if you have a translation that doesn't require any TL notes to watch and separate TL note blogging, you really get the best of all worlds: people who just want to watch the show can do so without necessary Japanese linguistic lessons in the middle of the episode, and the people interested in the language aspects of it can just read the TL note blogging afterwards.

>>153242976
If you're the guy who kept complaining about Barakamon then I don't really have anything to say to you, especially when you don't seem interested with talking to actual translators about the subject and taking some sort of weird pride in that as well.

And really, part of what you were complaining about with GabDro was "idioms not present in the original", when there is still absolutely nothing wrong with using idioms in a translation even if no idiom was used in the original line. Translation is supposed to be about conveying the meaning of the original text, not the exact words or constructs used in it.

>>153243083
>Translation is supposed to be about conveying the meaning of the original text, not the exact words or constructs used in it.

These idioms don't do that whatsoever. They convey an another meaning, regardless of how minuscule the difference may be, in almost every line they're used. Not to mention the intention of the author is lost.

>I need wings to get through the day after an all-night raid but I forget my angel oil.
>My presence is payment enough. Spit it out!

What was she saying then? In episode 5 at 02:59.

Since part deux came early, can someone remind me if daiz has ever done anything good or can I continue to ignore the hired shill?

>>153243083
>especially when you don't seem interested with talking to actual translators
>actual translators
Sorry, are we pretending the guys CR picks up off the streets and your buddies from commie are actual translators now? Let me know when you get someone who's done some actual translation. Also if you're not qualified to comment on translation yourself, then why come here and talk about it?

>when there is still absolutely nothing wrong with using idioms in a translation even if no idiom was used in the original line. Translation is supposed to be about conveying the meaning of the original text, not the exact words or constructs used in it.
Except there is because you're not matching tone. If someone speaks normally that conveys a certain image of the person, if someone's speech is steeped in idioms, then they come off differently. This isn't a case of sneaking in one or two that are funny and fitting, but it's completely changing the way they speak. If my friend spends money on something stupid and I tell him "You're an idiot, why would you buy that?" it conveys a different image than if I were to say "A fool and his money are soon parted." So no, inserting ideas that weren't at all present in the original work is not an acceptable translation by any stretch, because the people who are watching anime want to hear (wait for it) the author's words, ideas and representations of the characters, not your "enhanced" versions. There's more to conveying meaning than words, you have to match tone. I'm repeating myself because it seems like you have serious trouble grasping this: You are not matching tone by changing speech patterns.

>>153243083
Daiz sama, who is your favourite grill in monogatari ?

Why the hell is this faggot even talking about translations

>>153243323
Because as a retired encoder he knows all about it.

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A general question for everyone (Daiz especially) coming from a literature student.

What is more important in translation of any text/movie/song/etc:

Accurate transfer of exact wording from the first language to the other with as little of the *literal* meaning being lost in translation

OR

Capturing the "feeling" of what the author was trying to say and conveying it in a manner the audience will receive more readily/easily/comfortably?

>>153243402
>literature student

Please go back to plebbit.

>>153243402
Both.
You can always do both if you're good enough.

>>153243402
>Capturing the "feeling" of what the author was trying to say and conveying it in a manner the audience will receive more readily/easily/comfortably?
That isn't what "liberal" translators do.

>>153243402
Balance. Translating songs from Japanese to English, especially emotional ones is the worst thing ever. I did it once, it took me about 5 times longer than I wanted it to, and I will never do it again.

>>153243266
>Sorry, are we pretending the guys CR picks up off the streets and your buddies from commie are actual translators now? Let me know when you get someone who's done some actual translation.

That's rich coming from an anonymous poster.

But really, you've been linked to at least one professional translator praising the script, the TL note blog that people keep posting screenshots of is also unquestionably positive on these subs, and the translator who evaluated GabDro for NT A+ found the script very good as well. That's three translators' word against yours. If none of these count for anything, then what are your credentials, exactly?

>>153243402
>Capturing the "feeling" of what the author was trying to say and conveying it in a manner the audience will receive more readily/easily/comfortably?

Obviously this. We're talking about translating fiction whose goal is to be entertaining, so functional equivalence should be the name of the game all day every day. Very literal translation should be left to technical documents and other "serious" avenues like that.

Quality S U B S

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Also something relevant to the discussion at hand.

>dude you can't complain if your food tastes like shit if your not a cook LMAO

>>153243450
great answer senpai, have a (You) on the house

>>153243452
generally speaking, i think your right, at least when the languages are closely related. but japanese to english or vice versa will never really be an equivalent exchange, so is literal translation better than "fun subbing" or inserting puns and shit for english speaking audiences?

mind you, if you dont speak enough to notice the differences, you wouldnt even know the jokes are new. this is adding and subtracting from the original authors intent at the same time

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>>153243536

>>153243495
That I'm anonymous doesn't invalidate my diploma and experience. It's sadder that you think you can argue about translation when you don't know Japanese.

>>153243546
>senpai
>(You)
Don't ever ask anything or reply to me, baiting shitposter.

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>>153243495
thats a fair statement, but only since you distinguished that you feel this way since it is, after all, just entertainment.

The puns in GabuDrop dont bother me all that much, but they feel pretty ham fisted and unnecessary sometimes. I've been watching anime long enough to hear that its not what theyre saying, but at the same time, I could easily imagine those jokes being in a dubbed version of the show

>>153243495
>That's rich coming from an anonymous poster.
Actually it's not, because anything I claim I back up with examples and explanations, whereas you say "My friends said this!" despite them being CR translators. They are to translation what an orderly is to a brain surgeon.

>blah blah blah blah
See there's the problem right there, I broke it down into nice a simple terms for you and explained in plain English why it was bad. A middle schooler could have read my post and understood it enough to formulate an actual response, and yet all you're able to do (again) is say "But my friends said!"

How about you directly address the content of my post?

Is reiketsu out yet

>>153243563
Translated puns are never funny. Ever.

>>153243597
>That I'm anonymous doesn't invalidate my diploma and experience.

And I'm actually the president of Finland.

Considering how you keep shitting on the qualifications of other translators you really need to either put up or shut up.

>>153243536
But adding boatloads of puns where there are none is the opposite of functional equivalence, Daiz-kun

>>153243536
>>153243563
That talks about how to translate puns. Nowhere in there does it advocate for creation of puns or jokes that weren't in the source material.

Did you hit your head?

>>153243665
That's not what the post you respond to claimed, so I'm not sure why you are pointing it out.

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>>153243604
try and fucking stop me

i accidentally started this whole mess yesterday, i will continue to muck about as i please

>>153243669
So can you post the CVs of the "professional" translators you are referring to, or does "professional" to you mean that they were paid to translate by CR or some other shithole? Because I got paid to translate documents for a business when I was in high school so maybe I can claim to be "professional" too.

>>153243705
>Haha, it's a horse pun.

>>153243735
>>Haha, it's a horse pun.
>replacing puns means translating them
That said, the puns in the image were really rather dull.

>>153243495
How the fuck can you defend translating a line about a banana to something about a kitchen sink? The original line is perfectly translatable - it's not "weeby" or unintelligible nonsense. It's a simple fucking translation.

Yet you fucks think you can just add memes/irrelevant idioms wherever you want for some reason.

>>153243765
Because translating Japanese puns is never funny.

>>153238225
What's funny is the complete and utter mishandling of rendering a comparative but understood equivalent of the original. The idiomatic use doesn't make sense here because nobody uses the phrase "everything but the kitchen sink" in that way. It's jumbled and causes confusion not understanding. Secondly, they forced that phrase into a discussion without altering the surrounding lines, leading to even more confusion. As the image explains, the original phrase is a question that has meaning a specific meaning in Japanese culture and therefore their discussion on that question after it asks makes sense given their Japanese environment. The translated dialogue by contrast makes no sense because that phrase is not something "someone must ask before a trip."

To an English speaker the use of the phrase and the subsequent discussion of it is strange, unnatural and alien, everything a translation shouldn't be. It's really just an incredibly shitty translation.

>>153243793
Do you even read the posts you respond to or do you just make a general assumption about what they said before you think up a reply?

>>153243735
>Because I got paid to translate documents for a business when I was in high school so maybe I can claim to be "professional" too.

So you've never actually translated fiction professionally yet you keep shitting on people who have? Wew.

No wonder you kept arguing that Barakamon translations shouldn't actually show the fact that a lot of characters speak with a heavy accent.

>>153243845
You realize "Anonymous" isn't one person, right?

>>153243861
If it weren't for ESLs, I would never win any arguments.

>>153235649
>caring about color autism
Do you care about MAL scores as well?

>>153243845
Hey jackass, that guy wasn't me. The guy who told you "Address my actual point" was me. Stay on topic.

>>153243839
But anon, functional equivalence apparently means choosing an English idiom, pun or phrase at random and shoehorning it into the dialog with absolutely no regards to flow or the joke or sentence structure. Didn't you get the memo?

>>153243845
>If I keep cherry picking my replies as I pretend that I'm only arguing with one person, I can make it seem like I'm not avoiding showing off how wrong I am and how I don't actually know what the fuck I'm talking about.

>>153243868
Except when you are actually arguing with one person who even made a point to identify themselves in the earlier thread, referencing an older discussion on Barakamon which I'm referring to as well.

>>153243938
That sentence made about as much sense as the kitchen sink.

Wow, that pesky samefag keeps bullying poor daiz, can't he see he's the minority here?

>>153243923
>Hey jackass, that guy wasn't me.

Well, in that case my previous post still applies. Put up or shut up.

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>blue on Nyaa

Remember, FFF's Non Non Biyori subs are blue on Nyaa.

>>153243235
>Great, I left my wallet in the classroom.
>I need wings to get through the day
>after an all-night raid but I forget my angel oil.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this should be:
>great. I left my wallet in the classroom
>and after going through the trouble of coming all the way here
>when I'm tired of gaming all night

>>153243839
Why are you focusing on that line? I'll admit it's challenging for anyone to translate without a line about bananas out of nowhere sounding like gibberish to a viewer unfamiliar with the banana thing. There is a ton of other things in the script. IIRC they TL'd a line that was like "one more person will come" to "when I'm babysitting rosemary's child" or something.

>>153243938
Are you just pretending to be retarded right now? It's very clear which posts are mine because I'm arguing the same points consistently and waiting for you to address them (which you don't), and I write with the same distinct prose every time (which you'd understand if you knew anything about language)

>>153243968
>Put up or shut up.
I gave you a black and white explanation. Refute the actual content of my posts or fuck off. This isn't Twitter or Nyaa, no one here is impressed with a resume that starts with "majored Japanese in community college" and ends with "translate anime for Crunchy Roll" If you can make a point, then make it, if you can't, then stop pretending to be an expert on the subject. In literally no field of expertise is a claim to authority without the ability to back it up with hard skills or explanation an acceptable way to assert a claim.

>>153243968
>Put up or shut up.

I'm confused here Daiz. They already put up. And instead of attempting to refute their points you keep dancing around the issue while posting infographics that aren't counter to, and are potentially even supportive of, their claims. Why don't you put up?

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>Daiz is here

Shiver me timbers!

>>153244018
>Why are you focusing on that line?
Because I'm responding to a post about that line. Seems pretty self-evident to me.

>>153244010
Really makes my blood boil /s

>>153243563
>>153243536
These images about puns (i.e. something hard to translate). 99% of the issues people on /a/ have with the Gabriel Dropout subs aren't to do with pun translations; the issues are from shoehorned idioms and memes that don't fit the context.

You and Commeme fucks talk about how you prefer to convey the intended feeling rather than provide a so-called "literal translation" -- but how are you doing that when the meaning is completely changed?

>>153244096
Why are you saying this in the thread of one show where a girlfriend was chosen the first few episodes in?

>>153243845
It's hilarious how you think you're above criticism from the people that actually consume the things you produce. People aren't as stupid as you think and people are allowed to have opinions on different theories of translation (which isn't as complex as you seem to think it is).

There are some things that people just don't like in subs, and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whether they disagree with your theory of accurate translation. People don't want to pore over the subs and comb through the nuances like they're Dostoevsky. They just want to know what the Japanese words mean.

Also this may be hard for you to wrap your head around, but not everyone who watches anime also subvocalizes, and when you add phonetic quirks to otherwise plain language it kind of forces us to, which is obnoxious and makes us read slower.

>>153243791
What the translation was going for there is taking the wider context of the line in mind. For a Japanese viewer, they recognize it as a real-life cliche, whereas for an English viewer a literal translation would come off as basically a "lol so random" thing. As such, they opted to try to convey the meaning of using a cliche with the use of an English one.

It may not have been the most successful attempt (because you don't really use the English cliche like that), but that doesn't mean there would be anything inherently wrong with the approach. And even if it doesn't hit the mark perfectly, in the end it still comes off as a "lol so random" thing just like a literal translation of the original would be, so you're not really losing much in that sense either.

As I said in the previous thread, the subs might be trying a bit too hard at times, but on the whole that's a very minor issue compared to phoning it in.

>>153243536
It isn't relevant at all. This wasn't shit like Ika Musume, there were no puns in the original Japanese

>>153244162
>Daiz completely fails to respond to that anon directly for the 15th time
Holy shit, this guy is like Daiz-kryptonite.

>>153244171
I posted that more as a supplement to >>153243495 as I mentioned "functional equivalence" there.

>>153244162
>For a Japanese viewer, they recognize it as a real-life cliche,
It that was true people wouldn't be asking about it on yahoo answers
>in the end it still comes off as a "lol so random" thing just like a literal translation of the original would be, so you're not really losing much in that sense either.
Then maybe they shouldn't change the meaning

>>153244217
His whole post basically boils down to "I don't think the translation is faithful to the original tone of the show!" - which several translators disagree with.

And he also uses reasoning like "using idioms when an idiom wasn't used in the original line" as one of the arguments for his claim, which I've pointed out as being pretty silly more than a few times.

>>153244162
>but that doesn't mean there would be anything inherently wrong with the approach.
The approach is arguably fine. The result wasn't arguably fine.

>And even if it doesn't hit the mark perfectly, in the end it still comes off [...] just like a literal translation of the original would be, so you're not really losing much in that sense either.
See >>153243839 . It lost a lot in that sense.

>>153244301
>His whole post basically boils down to "I don't think the translation is faithful to the original tone of the show!" - which several translators disagree with.

Several (more) translators agree with it.

>>153244301
>which several translators disagree with.
Which translators? The original TL? Yeah, I'm sure he disagrees. The Commie approved TL on NT that does the reviews? Yeah, I'm sure another meme-inserting, localising translator disagrees too.

>>153244301
Why can't you respond to the post directly?
Why can't you justify the bullshit you're spouting?
Sounds like you realize you'd make yourself look like an even bigger idiot, maybe you should just admit that you're full of shit though.

>>153244366
Pff, only opinions by tripcodes and/or twitter handles count.

>>153244318
They could have just kept:
"Are Bananas included in the Snack budget (limit)?"

>>153244301
>"I don't think the translation is faithful to the original tone of the show!"
That's not what I said at all. I explained how it wasn't, and gave examples. You didn't address any of that directly, but instead just said "My professional friends disagree". That kind of argument is worthless. What part of this do you not understand?

>which I've pointed out as being pretty silly more than a few times.
No you haven't. You making a baseless claim doesn't count as pointing out a revelation. Please explain to me how adding ideas, quirks, jokes and language constructs that are in no way present in the original work is an accurate translation? "We're trying to match feel" doesn't work if you're fundamentally changing the way the characters talk.

>>153244366
Like who? I can name people who disagree with his assessment (eg. BDH, a professional VN translator, linked in previous thread. Then there's the guy who runs the TL notes blog that everyone keeps posting images from in these threads, he's overall clearly positive on the translation), can you do the same?

This is why I keep asking for qualifications: because it's basically the only thing left when you're at a point of fundamental disagreement over something.

>>153244162
Yes. The approach itself to that particular line was completely fine but the execution made me pause for a long while before I could make the connection with the kitchen sink idiom. This might sound silly but that pause seriously broke my "immersion" so it's not something I would consider a minor issue. I'd have been happy with a simple "Do bananas count for the snack limit?" Something like that wouldn't make me literally pause the video to wonder but just make me file a mental note to check what part of Japanese culture she was referring to later. Again, the approach itself isn't inherently wrong but it's not like it's the objective best way and shouldn't be forced in places it doesn't have to. I can understand why you think some of the translations are good but you don't have to agree with all of it or wave them off as minor when you don't.

>>153244460
Just curious.
How do you justify "sasuga Vigne" being translated to "faith moves mount Vigne". Or "かわい" being translated to "lord have mercy"?
These aren't even idioms.

>>153244441
>Please explain to me how adding ideas, quirks, jokes and language constructs that are in no way present in the original work is an accurate translation? "We're trying to match feel" doesn't work if you're fundamentally changing the way the characters talk.

Do you really not see how your argument here boils down to "the translation doesn't strictly adhere to the exact words and constructs used in the original text, therefore it is not accurate"? Because most translators you're going to find will very much disagree with the idea that eg. using idioms in a translation even if none were used originally would be "fundamentally changing the way a character talks".

>>153244301
Have you ever considered that maybe translators have some biases? For instance, they seem to care too much about things that most viewers consider unimportant. Like in Barakamon, it may be very interesting to you that the characters speak in a specific kind of dialect, but do you think it's such a significant piece of information that you have to base your whole translation around that? People are telling you that they don't consider it so important as to justify making the subtitles so barely legible, but you don't seem to think that's a valid concern because "translators" disagree.

who even runs nyaa?

>>153244507
The translator is just improving the script and making the viewing more enjoyable. (This is actually what Daiz and Commie faggots believe)

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>>153244549

>>153244460
Hey Daiz, I don't usually chime into these conversations, but what the hell. I translate some stuff, and among them the one I'm most proud of was the translation for Symphogear GX (not entirely me, it was a group effort, but I did most of the script editing). I agree with the other guy's logic, and I think the subs on Symphogear reflected it pretty well, because we made sure to match the feel of the original while translating jokes and references where applicable, and also made sure the whole thing read like natural English.

>>153244460
>a professional VN translator
Because VNs, just like anime, are known for the prowess of their brilliant translators, right?
You know people who actually study translation? It's the ones who are so incompetent that they can't do their job properly who end up there. Then again, assuming the people you are talking about even have an education in translation is presumptuous.
"Professional" isn't synonymous with competence. You might understand this if you were competent at anything (using Avisynth and x264 hardly counts).

>>153244460
Now quote them disagreeing with the actual points he made. Put up or shut up.

>>153244528
>Do you really not see how your argument here boils down to "the translation doesn't strictly adhere to the exact words and constructs used in the original text, therefore it is not accurate"?
Except you're putting words in my mouth and over simplifying what I said. If a character says 40 lines, all of which are normal, everyday Japanese, and you translated 15 of them into English puns or idioms that aren't part of normal English speech, then you've fundamentally changed the way the characters are represented, and it's not accurate.

Refute this directly. Don't bring up your friends, or """professionals""" but actually address this point directly.

>>153243536
Functional equivalence is the most cancerous translation theory ever conceivable. It's divorced from literary theory, views text as having a function that can be mechanically explained (i.e. this text causes this response on this reader), assumes that that function is inherent in the text itself, assumes that the primary focus of translation is maintaining that function, and assumes that everyone in the same group (i.e. Japanese speakers) would have the same experience with the text that can then be surgically applied to another group.

The last two assumption are the funniest and most absurd. When taking together it could possibly mean that even a text in a language understood by the reader needs to be "translated" in order to maintain a functional meaning inherent in the text itself. Taken to it's logical extreme, you could argue that there should be multiple versions of a text, like a Democrat and Republican version so that each text could appeal to each person's political ideology. In other words each audience gets the same reaction from each version of the text, i.e. the feeling of being politically vindicated.

I mean just look at this >>153243563
>Let's think about how the Japanese reader would respond to this pun.
We're really going to talk about a country of 130 million people and say they are going to respond in this incredibly simplistic way? And then say that we should (huge emphasis here) reproduce that response as much as possible for an English reader? Why? John Doe, a blue color worker, and Shinichi Takahiro, a hikikomori NEET, are not the same person. Why should we try so hard to get them to have the same response to Magical Girl Show?

>>153244541
>Like in Barakamon, it may be very interesting to you that the characters speak in a specific kind of dialect, but do you think it's such a significant piece of information that you have to base your whole translation around that?

Considering that the show puts a lot of emphasis on the dialect thing to begin with (like you have the MC commenting on it several times, and at times they even characters with so thick dialect they literally put Japanese subs on screen for them), I'm gonna go with yes.

>>153244590
>Because VNs, just like anime, are known for the prowess of their brilliant translators, right?

The fan stuff not really, but the pro stuff is generally a lot better.

>>153244614
The fact that they're praising the translation while not making the same claim of "it doesn't fit the tone of the original" makes a pretty clear case for them disagreeing with his claim.

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posting in a DAIZ thread

>>153244301
>which several translators disagree with.
Stop dodging by appealing to authority.

>>153244489
>broke my "immersion"
Exactly.

If I don't understand the English Idiom (and it does not make sense as a pun) and it does not fit the original meaning I'll get lost.

(A literal translation that flows well would have just introduced a concept I don't know about yet. Changing the idiom to one that does not fit just adds a further layer of fuzziness.)

>>153244738
What about if I also want to be Araragi?

>>153244638
And a 12 year old girl will respond differently as a 70 year old war veteran, your point?
You won't be able to translate some puns directly, so either you go something like that or choose to use a tl note or something similar.

I also don't understand how you can even try to translate shiritori sometimes. It was so awkward in no game no life.

rofl, so
>guy translates something to an English idiom
>because the original meaning might confuse the English speaking reader
>the idiom itself is still unknown or confusing to people whose first language isn't English
Fucking ironic and pathetic. I don't know anyone who ever heard of that in the first place. The translator is a fucking retard.

>>153243235
>>153244018
check onegaishimasu

>>153244050
I meant If you directed those arguments towards any of the many, many issues in the script you won't hear something like "But it's a cultural reference."

>>153244757
Why did they even have to change the lines? It's a joke they already explain(so this part isn't meant to be funny) then the real punchline is that Vigne already has that info in the guidebook.

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Is Kizu 2 finally translated? (LN fan translation excluded of course.)

>>153244672
>Considering that the show puts a lot of emphasis on the dialect thing to begin with (like you have the MC commenting on it several times, and at times they even characters with so thick dialect they literally put Japanese subs on screen for them), I'm gonna go with yes.

So, doesn't that maybe suggest to you that people are able to pick up on the "oh, they speak with a country dialect" thing just from the information in the show alone? Because you just pointed out examples of how obvious that is, which you seem to think sustain your argument that it's necessary to highlight even more. People aren't idiots, they are able to pick up on the clues that are already in there.

>>153244836
No man you don't get it. It doesn't matter what people think as long as the meme cartel says it's good.

>>153244804
That translating from the perspective of the reader's reaction is dumb because every reader has their own reaction.

It's a really dumb "theory" of translation. It doesn't take a genius to invent a very simplistic and plausible scenario where the theory falls apart on itself or requires so many exceptions or twisting that it becomes a shell of it's former self.

>>153244638
I agree with you anon about functional equivalence. If you ever want a laugh you should find Charles Martin's translation of Ovid's Metamorphoses. There's a part that is, honest to God, translated as a gangster rap.

>>153244749
See >>153244460

>>153244489
>but that pause seriously broke my "immersion"

As I said, that line in question might not have been the best, but I hope you agree that "immersion" is super-subjective. Like I've seen people say shit like "the original Japanese line started with 'demo' but the translated line didn't start with 'but'! This totally broke my immersion!" and with shit like that there is literally no way whatsoever that you could cater to whatever qualifies for "immersion" of every possible person out there.

Like when it comes to me awkward and stilted English in the translation is a much more sure-fire way to break "immersion" when watching anime for me, whereas for someone else that would be literally immersion heaven because "a real Japanese to English translation is supposed to sound awkward and stilted!" (And yes, I've seen people actually argue for that.)

>>153244872
Relying on people picking up something from the original language when they're consuming a translation is a bad practice for hopefully obvious reasons - they're consuming a translation specifically because they don't understand the original language, and as such the translation should avoid using that as a crutch.

>>153244672
>thick dialect they literally put Japanese subs on screen
Then you'd have to have an thick English dub and English subs to get a similar experience.

I guess using decipherable thick subs is a compromise.

>>153244836
It's more like:

>guy translates something to an English idiom
>because the original meaning might confuse the English speaking reader
>the idiom itself is still unknown or the idiom was used incorrectly, thus confusing people whose first language is English.
>Also we decided to throw in idioms into places where there weren't any in the first place because our jokes make the show funnier.

>>153244998
>Relying on people picking up something from the original language when they're consuming a translation is a bad practice for hopefully obvious reasons - they're consuming a translation specifically because they don't understand the original language, and as such the translation should avoid using that as a crutch.

Once again that's your bias as a translator. Because you're not a casual anime viewer, you're not able to really consider what information is or is not obvious to the casual anime viewer without making assumptions. When people who ARE casual anime viewers point out that your assumptions have been false or unnecessary, you just prop yourself up on the grounds of authority, thereby missing the point entirely.

>>153244860
Fansubbing ren/a/issance when? Meme cartels are not to be invited.

>>153244998
>argue anon's point directly instead of just referring to your friends who no one respects or cares about
>"Ok, here's what my friends have to say"
Holy shit, you're stupid.

>>153245067

Daiz is a bit of a knob, but he's the best we have. Fansubbing is dying, sadly. Right now it's mostly just points of clarification on professional translations.

>>153245100
>we
I guess Kizu 2 is DOA for you then.

My friends say I'm right. How does /a/ not understand this? I must correct them.

>>153245145
Well do you have cool friends who are never wrong? Yeah, that's what I thought.

>>153245135

I'm not interested in that pedoshit so I don't know.

>>153245145
>actual translators say a script is good
>random anons say a script is bad

I mean, when we're talking about translations and their quality and accuracy, then pretty obviously the former should have much more weight than the latter when it comes to subject, no? And even if you try to talk down said translators, it doesn't make the random anons any more qualified.

I don't really use fansubs but this Daiz guy strikes me as the kind who would translate "Onii-chan" as the character's name instead of "Big Bro."

>>153245229
Obviously translators know the language, people just get annoyed when they try to translate MORE than the language.

>>153245145
Argumentum ad amicus

TL Note: Amicus means friend
TL Note of TL Note: I can't speak Latin at all so there's probably some conjugation rule I'm not following.

>>153245229
Mind answering >>153244507

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>>153245229
Thank you for replying, Daiz. I will keep telling them that my friends say I'm right.

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>>153245281
>TL Note

>>153244998
I think your example is a bit too extreme. What I'm trying to get at is that the translation wasn't something that was immersion-breaking in the sense that there was a disconnect between my limited Japanese vocabulary and the subs I'm reading nor is it whether or not I think Japanese should be translated literally, formally, faithfully or whatever. I'm talking about the fact there was something in the subs that I had to FIGURE OUT. There aren't any other preferences in that, as far as I know. Everyone wants to read and understand immediately and that's a desire subs can always cater to.

>>153245353
His friends say he's right though.

>>153245229
>Anon demonstrates a working knowledge of Japanese and English, and clearly and concisely explains his thoughts
>A "professional" from literally the bottom of their respective field's word is worth more because I say so
Sorry champ, if you can't actually articulate your thoughts and explain your reasoning, then your ideas are worthless. That's how discussion and debate works.

>>153243673
I like how he never replied to this.

>>153245229
>random anons
"Random" is a completely unneccessary qualifier in this case; you could've just said "anons".
As we all know, extensive anonymous examples and arguments are worthless as long as those people won't attach verifiable real life personas to their comments.

>>153245447
He didn't need to because that anon is wrong. You see, Japanese is naturally a stilted language so to a native Japanese speaker, the original dull line would appear to be quite normal. But English speakers like lively and fun dialogue which is considered normal (have you seen a network sitcom?) so in order to extract the functional equivalence, puns need to be introduced in the script so that the viewer gets the same functional experience.

>>153245229
Why couldn't a joke that made sense be used In place, no matter how inaccurate? People wouldn't have had their immersion broken at least if that was the case.

>>153245232
Whether I'd do that or not would depend on the situation, but it doesn't mean it wouldn't be an entirely legitimate way to go about it. I certainly wouldn't throw a fit about it if I saw someone else do it.

>>153245286
They carry the meaning of the original. Personally I'd probably categorize the former into the "trying a bit too hard" category, but as I said before I think that's generally speaking a pretty minor issue.

>>153245353
>there was something in the subs that I had to FIGURE OUT

That's obviously quite the subjective thing in itself. Like every so often you see people complain that some idioms or words used in English translation are "too hard" for them - basically arguing that the English should be dumbed down to their exact level of knowledge.

My stance on this is that if you're consuming English translations, then it's on you to have the required proficiency to understand them.

>>153245518
>Real life personas are more important than actual content of a post
Is this irony or one of Daiz's butt buddies, I can't tell.

>>153245610
You're the one translating them, you fucking retard, stop living in your own bubble. Moreso, you're still arguing your case, you obviously are insecure enough to make them shut up. It obviously doesn't work.

>>153245610
>That's obviously quite the subjective thing in itself.

It's subjective if they don't know the idiom. It's not subjective when the idiom was used incorrectly. It's not subjective when the surrounding context is not changed to match the edited in idiom.

>>153245518
>As we all know, extensive anonymous examples and arguments are worthless as long as those people won't attach verifiable real life personas to their comments.

That's a nice strawman you've built there, but as I've said multiple times, I'm asking for qualifications in this case because a) it is essentially over a fundamental disagreement b) the guy keeps shitting on people with shown qualifications who disagree with him while showing none of his own.

>>153245712
>Haha, I'm not saying qualifications matter more than actual ability to explain your point
>But if you disagree with someone I deem competent, then you need to show me qualifications instead of making a point
You know, I actually used to think you weren't completely retarded before today.

>>153245697
As I've been saying, I don't think the kitchen sink line worked out all too well in the GabDro translation, so I was talking about the subject in general. And just because one or two lines didn't work out that well doesn't make the whole translation SHIT or the approach that lead to it invalid as many people here are saying.

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Anybody hear anything more about this?

>>153245762
this (upvoted)

>>153244050
See what I mean >>153245766

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>>153244860
what's wrong with it? Watched both the LN translation and the German screening and both seemed fine

>>153245572
Die in a fire.

>>153245766
>one or two lines
More like three or four or five or six or seven or eight or oh wait, this "translation" actually sucks.

>>153245610
>Like every so often you see people complain that some idioms or words used in English translation are "too hard" for them
But the problem here is not that the translation was too hard, it's that it was obscure. An idiom used as is is fine. The first time I encountered the everything but the kitchen sink idiom, I was able to contextualize the meaning of it. But here, it wasn't used as is and was twisted to fit a context that was very, very far from the original. Because of this, no one, literally no one, will see that line and immediately understand what the line is trying to say. They have to make the connection first. You can say that some can make that connection fast enough to the point that they wouldn't have to pause like I did, but as I said before, subs shouldn't expect you to figure out what it's trying to say. Subs don't have to serve the lowest common denominator, yes, but that's not the problem here.

Taking translation advice from Daiz is one of the most idiotic shit you can do.

Seriously, there's a reason he/she/it is a meme around here.

>>153245712
For what I've been reading in this and the previous threads, there seem to be plenty of people who claim to be, for example, fansubbers, scanlators, grad students in Japan and professional translators. Do you believe what they say and are you willing to address their arguments, or should their scan their photo IDs first for you and upload their CVs for everyone to see?
I've seen plenty of anonymous posts over the past few hours that I think are well articulated and reasonable, and few of those posts included any description of the commenters' professional expertise.

It's hopeless, you guys. Daiz isn't going to change his attitude about any of this. If his idiosyncratic translation style bothers you, just don't use UW subs, familiarize yourself with other sub groups, pick one that suits your preferences. And be skeptical of the "blue" rating on Nyaa.

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>>153245610
>They carry the meaning of the original
Doesn't really seem that close to the original.

"faith move mountains" is an expression that means "faith" would cause something to happen that wouldn't have otherwise happened. In this case, a mountain moving.

Sasuga mean it's almost a given that something will happen.

It's almost polar opposite in meanings.

>>153245610
It's my first time seeing you post and I already know youre a faggot. Memesubs pls go.

>>153245894
Really? I'm the guy who did the LN subs and I heard one anon here said that part of the final talk between Hanekawa and Araragi was using the wrong parts of the LN.

>>153245712
Do you at least generally agree that subtitles shouldn't be distracting and call attention to themselves?

>>153245762
>actual ability to explain your point

I mean, this is basically how this has been going down for the past thread and this one, paraphrased:

>I think using idioms and such when there's none in the original dialogue fundamentally alters the character.
>I disagree with that assessment, because translation is about conveying the meaning of the original text, not the exact words and constructs used by it. Functional equivalence and all that. Pretty much all translators I know agree with this, especially when it comes to translating fiction and entertainment.
>Yeah, "translators", right, clearly they can't be proper translators if they disagree with me on this!
>So what are your qualifications for saying that then, especially if the qualifications of these translators don't count?
>Wow, appeal to authority much? I can't believe you would use a fallacy like that! And my original statement should be qualification enough!
>Except for the whole fact that people with qualifications disagree with said statement, so again, what are your qualifications for disagreeing with them?
>Look at you go all "My friends say I'm right" again!

And that's basically where we're been stuck at.

>>153245610
>Personally I'd probably categorize the former into the "trying a bit too hard" category, but as I said before I think that's generally speaking a pretty minor issue.

I think the discord here is that when "trying a bit too hard" results in incorrect translations, delivering opposite meanings ( >>153246066
), lines being out of character, etc. anybody who isn't ignorant that they're being misled doesn't view it as a minor problem. At that point they aren't translating, they're rewriting.

>>153246140
Yes, but once again what counts as "distracting" to someone is extremely subjective.

Ultimately what most of these kind of sub complain threads boil down to is complaining about completely valid ways to translate something just because they don't personally happen to like them, and then claiming that the subs are WRONG based on said dislike.

>>153246183
Reading this made me picture one of those Quentin comics from old /v/

>>153246035
It's not that simple. For example, for GabDro there are no other options to watch in English other than that abomination of a script. And because a "mighty blue group" is doing it, no other smaller group would want to dupe their release. Also, having that type of TL from CR met with indifference from the subscribers only invites more in the future.

>>153246356
>Yes, but once again what counts as "distracting" to someone is extremely subjective.

That's why it's important to listen to feedback. Because you might not realize something is distracting until that's pointed out to you.

>>153246356
Well they are literally wrong, but that's beside the point isn't it.

The guy sure does like his attention

>>153246356
But if functional equivalence is about invoking a similar response in your audience as the original, and your audience is clearly not having a similar response, then isn't your own beliefs and theories about translating contradicting your own actions?

>>153246183
>I disagree with that assessment, because translation is about conveying the meaning of the original text, not the exact words and constructs used by it.
Stop right the fuck here. I've given you several explicit examples between these two threads how inserting idioms, jokes and puns is not capturing the original feeling at all. You keep arguing against the strawman that I'm advocating for a 1:1 dictionary swap of words. I'm not. If a character talks in normal Japanese that wouldn't raise an eyebrow. then you translate it into normal English that wouldn't raise an eyebrow. If the character spices up their own speech patterns somehow, then you match that in the translation. This is the point that you're failing to address. Explain to me how going from "normal, base level common language" to "eccentric speech patterns that the average person doesn't not use" retains the same feeling.

>Functional equivalence and all that
Advocates for equivalent exchange of ideas across languages, not inventing them where they don't exist.

>Pretty much all translators I know
I. Don't. Give. A. Shit.
The translators you know work in the lowest rungs of their profession, Their professional opinions are worth about as much as a high school biology teacher's opinion on curing cancer.

Address my point directly, or find me a professional translator who's published acclaimed works across a couple of languages to back up your argument specifically (not your pretend extrapolation). I learned how to TL from someone with a degree in linguistics from a good school in their field. They fan TL a ton of shit, as have I in the past. They work at a company doing real translation work now, and I trust their word a whole lot more than your "professional" friends. Now argue against the actual content of my post. Stop fucking bringing up your friends, no one cares at all what they think, especially if they aren't here to explain. Address my arguments unambiguously and directly or fuck off.

>>153246388
>That's why it's important to listen to feedback.

So who do you listen to when you get conflicting feedback on it?

Of course, everyone would prefer the answer to that to be "me", but obviously you can't satisfy everyone.

In the end it's up to the ones producing the translation to choose who they want to cater to. And in case of Crunchyroll, in most cases they're not going to cater to a bunch of people who mostly hate their guts and pirate all their stuff by default.

>>153235954
>my sides is something people actually say in real life hahahaha you just need to get out more loser
How can this level of irony be real?

Is herkz a good translator

>>153246183
>I think using idioms and such when there's none in the original dialogue fundamentally alters the character.
>think

This isn't an opinion, and one of your problems is that you're treating it like one to be disagreed with. When you change the words the character is using, you have to do your best to keep the tone, keep the feel. It's what you say you're always striving your best to do immediately after in:
>>I disagree with that assessment, because translation is about conveying the meaning of the original text, not the exact words and constructs used by it. Functional equivalence and all that.

When you change the words and ALSO change the tone/feet/etc, you're no longer conveying the meaning, achieving functional equivalence, etc.

You're literally disagreeing with yourself.

>>153246498
Not a translator. He/She typesets and edits scripts.

>>153246183
The obvious solution is for you to leave.

>>153246442
To be fair, he at least argues here even if it seems like we're not getting through to him. Better than those who circlejerk with their friends on Twitter.

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>>153246183
Literally no one gives a fuck about any "qualifications" but you. You respond to good arguments by deflection and by belittling anonymous posters; and when they've do mention the qualifications you beg for, you ignore them.

Feel free to run away and tweet a screencap of that objective analysis of yours to your drones.

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>all this he/she business

So is everyone in the meme cartel a tranny or something? Or are you guys just being vague because you don't know?

>>153246672
How else could anyone be that big of a faggot?

Hey Daiz what's the best way to translate "itadakimasu?"

>>153246724
Rub a dub dub, thanks for letting me slobber all over your cock.

>>153246724
Rub a grub thanks for the dub.

>Bald Finn thinks he knows English better than the English

>>153246498
Do you figure 'my sides' to be a common saying in today's youth?

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>le functional equivalence

>>153246775
No. But like the other anon said, I wouldn't mind it if it was used in a scene where the character is doubling over in laughter, not when they're exchanging pleasantries over boxed lunches.

>>153246449
>and your audience is clearly not having a similar response

If the response is "REEEEEE THEY DIDN'T STICK TO THE EXACT WORDS USED IN THE ORIGINAL LINE" then obviously that doesn't really count because that kind of reaction is coming from people who'd rather have formal equivalence for everything.

>>153246474
>Explain to me how going from "normal, base level common language" to "eccentric speech patterns that the average person doesn't not use" retains the same feeling.

As I've been saying, I think they are trying a bit too hard at times, but on the whole what was said in that TL note blog is very much accurate - conversational English is steeped in Abrahamic theological terminology, while Japanese isn't, so even in a normal translation you'd likely end up "introducing" theological themes into the translation where there were originally none. In this case said introduction just happens to be thematically relevant as well. In that way, it's more of an thematic "easter egg" than "spicing things up". Of course, it's clear that the translator is putting in a lot of effort into their word choices, even to the point of making it come off rather forceful in places, and while that might be a bit too much in a more serious show, when you're dealing with a comedy show I can't really consider it much of an issue.

>and I trust their word a whole lot more than your "professional" friends.

You can say you trust them more than my "friends", but you've given the rest of us nothing beyond your own word to trust your take on this rather fundamental argument over translation styles, which is way less than what I've provided so far. So if this:

>find me a professional translator who's published acclaimed works across a couple of languages to back up your argument specifically

Is the only thing you'd consider enough to back up my statement, can you provide the same for your own? If not, why exactly should we trust you with anything on this matter either?

>>153246788
there's some serious delusional crap in this edit.

>>153246965
can you answer >>153246724 please?

>>153246788
Doki's is the best one. Just like in real life.

>>153247038
Sure! The answer is obviously "Rub a dub dub, thanks for the grub"

For real though, there's many equally valid ways to go about it, and you'd generally make a choice based on the context.

>>153247095
So in other words "no, I can't answer it."

>>153246965
>then obviously that doesn't really count
Oh so functional equivalence picks and chooses who can receive the translation? It's a much more complicated theory than I thought. And here I just assumed that a translation was meant to allow a speaker of another language to understand something but now I realize that it's actually to create a specific response in an audience of the translator's choosing.

I think I'm starting to get it. Translations are for groups of like minded people, not "like-language" speakers. In that case there aren't language translations but audience translations. So, for example there could be a "4chan translation" just like how now we have a Spanish translation.

But that just leaves me with one question. How come the blue releases on Nyaa are marked English translations? Shouldn't they be marked "Fucking Retard translations"?

>>153246965
>but on the whole what was said in that TL note blog is very much accurate - conversational English is steeped in Abrahamic theological terminology
Except it's fucking not. Outside of "Oh my God" "Thank God" and "Holy shit" which are "not uncommon" people don't make references to the Abrahamic God at anything even remotely close to the rate they do in that show. That blogger is factually wrong. You want a language that does actually reference God every other word, pick up Arabic. You want proof on this? Open up literally any book written in modern English and count up the references to God. I'm dead serious, that person is factually wrong and quoting him is pointless.

>t's more of an thematic "easter egg" than "spicing things up".
I pray to god (see what I did there?) that you didn't type this with a straight face, because this is 100% unadulterated bullshit semantics.

> when you're dealing with a comedy show I can't really consider it much of an issue.
So just come right out and say "I don't actually care for accuracy of translation if I think it's funny" instead of pretending to defend an accurate translation, because that's what you just said.

>but you've given the rest of us nothing beyond your own word
And a functional understanding of both languages, and an explanation of how I translate ideas between them in easy to digest language. You've provided one blog which I just explained is factually wrong, and the literally nothing but the word of a bunch of people, who as I've repeatedly said, are at the bottom of their professional fields and don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

>can you provide the same for your own? If not, why exactly should we trust you with anything on this matter either?
I'm providing an actual explanation for literally everything I've said. You're relying on nothing but an appeal to authority with nothing else to back it up. Big fucking difference. Don't even pretend they're remotely similar.

Christ, Daiz just keeps talking and he sounds more retarded with every post.

>>153247151
How would you translate the English word "table" into some other language?

Would you use the target language word for a literal physical table?
But what if the original word was actually referring to a data table?

Point being, when it comes to translation, how to translate something always depends on the context. If you're going to ask about how to translate X or Y, then you need to give appropriate context, or otherwise the only thing you're going to get back is "what's the context?"

>>153247269
>"what's the context?"
People are about to enjoy eating a meal. Translate it now.

>>153247269
>comparing a unique cultural expression to a table
really fires the neurons

>>153247269
Don't try to make "itadakimasu" more mysterious than it is. It's not a homonym with a variety of meanings.

Are you saying it could be anything from "I guess I'll try some" to "Down the hatch!"?

>>153247298
That's not really much of context. But if you insist, you could go for something like "Time to dig in" or "Time to dine" or "Let's dig in" or many more variations.

>>153247346
>Are you saying it could be anything from "I guess I'll try some" to "Down the hatch!"?

Yeah, both could definitely be valid ways to go about it depending on the context.

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The fucking TLnotes blogger came up with a better, more relevant and closer to the original translation for this scene than the CR meme translator that inserted some vague biblical reference instead that doesn't even have any relevance in this scene and is arguably a far worse translation

How the fuck do you fuck up SASUGA this bad?
Sasuga, CR.

Defend this shit Daiz, oh wait you can't.

>>153247420
Ok let's make this more fun.

People sit down to eat. Those people speak in a distinctly rural dialect. How do they say "itadakimasu?"

>>153247346
Yeah, it's not a homonym or something with a variety of meanings but Daiz's stance seems to be that he'd rather not try to translate it the same way each time and would prefer to fit it according to the person's personality or the mood, etc. There's no one good way to translate it. This is the last thing we should be arguing about.

>>153235649
Because people are a fucking morons and then don't even know how shitty commies translations are.

>>153247440
Personally I think "as expected of" is fine in pretty much any context because everyone knows what "sasuga" means.

>>153247487
They say grace.

>>153247420
>dig in
>dine
Literally no one says that in real life. Functional equivalence, you fucking idiot.

>>153247535
That's not right. Sasuga should be done on a case by case basis, and given that almost no native English speaker actually says "As expected of X" it's not a good translation.

>>153247420
Now how would you translate a very intricate and complex discussion about the Japanese language between two characters? To clarify, two characters are talking about a feature of the Japanese language, e.g. a discussion of rendaku.

>>153247585
yeah but people who watch anime know that Japanese people have their own distinct way of talking.

>>153247489
>This is the last thing we should be arguing about.

Shh, there's no point of arguing with Daiz, we're just making him perform for us now.

>>153247617
Anon no. You don't translate not-broken or awkward Japanese into broken or awkward English.

>>153247535
Anything would be better than what the CR translator came up with, this line left me confused because I obviously knew what sasuga meant but didn't understand this translation until someone in the GabDrop thread explained it was a biblical reference

This is NOT good translation, Daiz and nyaa mods must be complete retards or so ehow covering for the translator if they are seriously praising it and sucking his dick like they are
>>153237117

>>153247589
>濁点を目だとおもって眺めるととてもかわいい濁音たち
Translate this Daiz.

>>153247535
I disagree. In Gabriel Drop's case, I only dislike it because it feels like it's forcing more heaven/hell puns. But there are times where I see a really good translation that sounds very natural and fits really well. I don't remember where it's from but there was one scene where a father was training his daughter in fighting or whatever. Naturally, he said sasuga at one point. Instead of being translated as "As expected of my daughter," it was translated as "That's my girl." That was a really good way of handling it, in my opinion.

>>153246788
Eclipse /Doki is a the best solution. You don't need to read tlnotes if you don't like it, but many people will be satisfied. I love to know the real dialogues and direct meaning of the things which I watch/read. And it's not only a thing when I'm watching Anime or read manga. I love books and translations which are introducing me a culture of the country where it was written.

>>153247716
Heh, I didn't realize it was FFF until I saw that. I'm not watching GabDrop but FFF is on my avoid list precisely because they add too many of their own jokes and that's obnoxious.

>>153247719
Yeah I agree. There was this sub I watched of Azumanga Daioh (not sure if it was official or fansub) where prior to a scene it might have a TL note explaining something that would later come up in the conversation. That struck me as a great approach.

>>153247742
Nigga, read the rest of the thread. FFF only added karaoke and typsetting. They're using CR's script.

>>153246788
And of course this is a fuckin bullshit. Yes, they used tl notes, but not for a something like sugoi or itadakimasu.
Eclipse is my favorite group all time. They translations were near a perfect level.

>>153247804
Either way, they can't be trusted to fix shit like that.

>>153247716

>thats a good way of handling it

I agree same with this >>153247440

And it still manages to convey more about Vigne and Gab's relationship and personality than the original CR script.

Maybe they got a high school drop-out to translate the show thinking it would be appropriate.

>>153247880
It's known fact that FFF is basically commie/gg 2.0 now. Why even bother to download their releases

>>153247784
In the old days some groups would put TL notes in the OP for stuff that would come up later in the episode, this worked great except when you marathoned things and skipped the OP.

>>153247155
>In that case there aren't language translations but audience translations.

Well, you're not actually completely off there - "what's your audience" is something to consider when doing translations. If you're aiming your translations at weebs who like to pretend they understand Japanese, then sure, keep a ton of simple words untranslated in the script. If you want to appeal to more people than that, then keep untranslated Japanese out of your script as much as possible.

>>153247221
>I'm providing an actual explanation for literally everything I've said.

And how am I not explaining my side of things when I've also spent several posts doing that?

Anyway, here's a question for you: Do you think there's inevitably always going to be something "lost in translation" even when dealing with a good translation? I would say yes, especially when you're dealing with comedy (as it generally involves playing around with language a lot). So if we're looking at a comedy work and say it has a baseline X of humor in the original script, a very literal translation would always be less funnier overall (X - Y) due to the loss in translation. Now, as I see it, things like the thematically fitting translation choices for lines can in turn make up for that - sure, it's still not going to be exactly X, but X - Y + Z will be closer to X on a functional level compared to just X - Y, which is why I think it's not really an issue.

Anyway, I've spent way too long in this thread already, so on my part I'm going to end it with this quote:

>Translation is like a woman. If it is beautiful, it is not faithful. If it is faithful, it is most certainly not beautiful.

If we go by this and have to choose between the two, then I'd rather have beautiful translations for my (Japanese) entertainment.

And if you really want to understand the Japanese intricacies of your Japanese media, then you should probably go actually learn Japanese instead of bitching about subs so much.

>>153247908
Yeah but if CR gives him money then he's a professional and his word is immutable.

>>153247939
>who like to pretend they understand Japanese

You say this all the time but what does it actually mean? Of course people use fansubs to "pretend they understand Japanese," that's the point. We don't know Japanese so the words tell us what the characters are saying.

>>153247929
>Skipping OP instead of becoming really good at singing it.

But then how will you display your awesome skills when you sing 1m30s of that 4m song when you go out with your friends to karaoke?

>>153247995
>But then how will you display your awesome skills when you sing 1m30s of that 4m song when you go out with your friends to karaoke?

This made me laugh because it's actually happened to me.

>>153247939
People who are complaining about shitty liberal subs in most cases already learning Japanese. They are often using subs as a support, if they don't understand one word of the sentence, they are looking at the subs. I'm doing it as well. And btw, suggesting a language learning for someone where wants faithful translation is probably the dumbest this which you can do.

>>153247939
>haphazardly inserting awkward puns into the script
>beautiful

>>153237117
That shit is hilarious. So what sub group to use for Gabriel Dropout? Deadfish is translating it too

>>153247939
>Now, as I see it, things like the thematically fitting translation choices for lines can in turn make up for that - sure, it's still not going to be exactly X, but X - Y + Z will be closer to X on a functional level compared to just X - Y, which is why I think it's not really an issue.
Except Z is a negative value because the changes are not funny at all and just make everything more confusing. The only people who like it are "translators" (i.e. incompetent idiots who think translating = editing because they are too lazy/have too poor of a vocabulary to do it properly) circlejerking over how "clever" they are.

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>>153248094
>Deadfish is translating

>>153247939
>If we go by this and have to choose between the two, then I'd rather have beautiful translations for my (Japanese) entertainment.

Daiz admitting that he's a metaphorical cuck

>>153247939
Explain how this is an acceptable translation for "Sasuga"
>>153247440

>>153247939
>I'd rather have beautiful translations for my (Japanese) entertainment.

Your translations are anything but beautiful especially if they make the original meaning of a line even more difficult to understand.

>>153248072
Sorry for the errors, fuckin autocorrection.

>>153248094
Deadfish = encoders, not translators.
Watch it raw and keep spamming on Doki chat for the translation, the only right choice for now.

>>153248094
>Deadfish is translating it too
Anon, you're like a baby. Do some research.

>>153248094
Horriblesubs is probably your best bet.

>>153247939
>when I've also spent several posts doing that
You have literally, objectively, and factually not done this once at any point in this or the last thread. "I think this thing that's obviously false is true" is not an actual explanation by any stretch of the imagination.

>Anyway, here's a question for you:
Let's see how far off topic you manage to steer things away from the actual point.

>Do you think there's inevitably always going to be something "lost in translation" even when dealing with a good translation?
Absolutely. Even the best translation only strives to "not damage the source as much as possible". Before you get all giddy, this fact by no means excuses a lack of effort or a drop of standards.

>and say it has a baseline X of humor in the original script
Stop right there. You're job is to translate what the characters are saying, not to gauge the humor, decide how funny you think it is on a scale, and the rewrite something you think to be equally as funny. Yes, there is always liberty that will be taken, but for the 1000th time, the audience wants to know what joke the author wrote, so you try to match the author's tone. If the author made a joke about angels, I make a joke about angels. If the author used an idiom, I use an idiom. If the author has the character say something normal like "I went to the story and bought a sandwich." then I don't try to insert a joke or idiom into that. Period. That's it.

>which is why I think it's not really an issue.
Ok since you want to pretend to know math, let's do it. Count up all the jokes, puns, idioms and exaggerated expressions in Japanese that happen in an episode. Then count up those numbers in the English script and compare them. Remember, no one gives a shit what you think is funny, so count up only jokes by the author and compare the numbers since you're so keen on "functional equivalence".

>and have to choose between the two,
We don't, and your friends' subs aren't beautiful by any stretch.

>>153247939
>If you want to appeal to more people than that, then keep untranslated Japanese out of your script as much as possible.
Why do you keep making this look like there's only two choices: overly literal, or what you're doing?

>>153247939
Your unfaithful beautiful women is making it very hard to figure out whether she's a woman or a man.

>>153248189
>phoneposting
Stop that.

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>>153247994
>Of course people use fansubs to "pretend they understand Japanese," that's the point.

No, the difference here is that people use translations in a language they understand as a means to understand the original work because they don't understand the original language as-is.

The "pretending to understand Japanese" bit comes from things like translations leaving things untranslated, so that the viewers when seeing those untranslated words and "understanding" them can feel like they REALLY understand actual Japanese and not just consuming translations. Of course, in reality they only understand a very tiny sliver of the language, but a lot of people extrapolate from this to think they know much more than they actually do, leading into picture related.

>>153248105
>The only people who like it are

Just because you don't personally happen to like something doesn't mean absolutely everyone shares your opinion, or even the majority of people for that matter (even if your particular filter bubble can make it feel that way).

Anyway, I'm gonna take my leave now. See you all next time!

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This whole clusterfuck with Gabriel Dropout has me convinced that nyaa mods and daiz are in collusion with the CR translator in some way.

Its the only explanation for how they can justify one of the most abysmal, literal and nonsensical translations in anime these past few years.

And if you read how defensive of him the faggots like herkz and fyurie are
>>153237117 it just doubles that suspicion, no sane person would seriously defend this shitshow of a botched translation like they are.

>>153248262
Defend this botched forced biblical translation of "Sasuga Vigne-chan"

>>153247440

Go ahead I'll be waiting.

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>>153248262
See you around, cunt.

>>153248262
>I'm going to bow out now after not having made anything even approaching a point during this thread
>You made me feel really stupid and made my friends feel bad for being shitty translators, so I need to go back to Twitter for a bit
Don't forget to fish for comments from people who don't speak Japanese who back up your garbage opinions!

>>153248308
CR hires shitty fan translators with no other job prospects, i.e. Daiz's friends. This isn't news.

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>>153248476
Everything makes sense now.

>>153248476
But many of their translations are acceptable. Maybe not a something which I can call a good translation, but still rather accurate and without dumb memes for idiots.
This should be a gateway for good fansubs (Doki, Hitoku, or some individuals like Mori). When there is a series like Stella Bo Mahou, Sansha Sanyou, or Gabriel Dropout from this season they should pick up those series. I'm convinced that many people would wait for good and faithful translations.

>>153248262
>The "pretending to understand Japanese" bit comes from things like translations leaving things untranslated, so that the viewers when seeing those untranslated words and "understanding" them can feel like they REALLY understand actual Japanese and not just consuming translations.

Do you realize that at least some people who read subtitles (probably more) can simultaneously read the written English words while hearing the spoken ones? That's why we hear things like "sasuga, sensei" and we think something like "way to go teacher!" and then the subtitles say "shiver me timbers!" and that fucking grates on us?

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How much would I get paid at CR if I machine translated Gabriel Dropout and added my own spice into it?

>>153248189
Doki won't do it, they are so backlogged right now. Seems like they're starting to taper off

>>153248585
That reminds me, I subbed Sansha OVA 2 a while ago and my friend said he'd finish typesetting. Gotta pester him for that.

>>153248308
Personally, they just seem very bored and are trying to hold subbing to a higher standard than it's supposed to. You'd have to go out of your way to produce a script like CR did for Gabriel Dropout. Going back, looking at inconsequential lines and adding a very liberal flair to them doesn't feel like incompetence but just a lot of misplaced enthusiasm because of boredom.

I always laugh when I read comments to fansubs. We have a really good and faithful official translation for Urara,and what people are doing? They are downloading shitty GJM release full of memes and awfully liberal script- because font is not yellow O_o . I'm out. Seriously.

>>153248603
Minimum wage. Remember that you have to be recommended by at least one member of the cabal to land the job, and that you will most likely be laid off within 6 months due to "company restructuring".

>>153248729
It's a strong desire to feel important and creative while in reality being neither of those things.

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>>153248680
Please tell me this is true and that you'll do the third.

>>153248768
At the same time messing with the original intention of the author and writers, to a very extreme degree.

The same is happening now with Japanese games games that get english translations, usually by XSeed games, and are filled with memes and garbage and censored to hell and back.

>>153248748
lmao, literally this.

>>153248308
Have you considered a mixture of laziness and pride? Laziness for not fixing it, pride for standing behind their "decision" not to.