Dragon Ball was a huge hit that redefined how people approached

>>150897940
Who are you referring to, exactly?

>>150897940
>How do these fuckers who praise this shit like the gospel just not get it?
Same reason why the comic book industry and the 90s authors read Watchmen and they thought it was good because it had sex and violence or the anime industry only took the waifu faggotry from NGE to the point even Eva followed the trend on rebuild. Shit happens

kill yourself

>>150897940

It always seems like shounen authors were more influenced by the anime than the manga.

If you look at the overall pacing, handling of flashbacks (just brief exposition dumps in the manga with one or two scenes for illustrative purposes, while they became full fledged scenes in the anime), modern manga are closer to the DB anime than the manga, which would explain why Toriyama's techniques themselves weren't taken by them.

And there's also the fact that DB although really big wasn't the only influence. Numbered "elite" antagonist groups with individual special abilities common in Naruto, Bleach and various other modern shounen action manga seem to take more after Saint Seiya than anything Dragonball related.

>>150898010
Y'know, that's a fair point, but Dragon Ball's excellence in pacing and design seems WAY more surface level and easy to assimilate than Watchmen's layered and thoyghtful narrative and NGE's emphasis on character study and negativity.

>>150897990
Mostly action/adventure books that either take inspiration or just straight up rip it off. So, most Shonen series over the last 20 years and a lot of Western comics as well.

Even a lot of the ones that aren't too bad, like One Piece for example, tend to completely miss the technical aspects and fall into the pitfalls Toriyama mostly avoided.

>>150898333
>Mostly action/adventure books that either take inspiration or just straight up rip it off. So, most Shonen series over the last 20 years and a lot of Western comics as well.

See >>150898252
>And there's also the fact that DB although really big wasn't the only influence. Numbered "elite" antagonist groups with individual special abilities common in Naruto, Bleach and various other modern shounen action manga seem to take more after Saint Seiya than anything Dragonball related.

In other words, you are a fucking idiot if you think DB was the sole inspiration for Shounen manga of the past 20 years.

>>150898416
>you are a fucking idiot if you think DB was the sole inspiration for Shounen manga of the past 20 years.

I never said it was? I just thought it's weird how it didn't have a bigger impact on modern action composition, like Kirby and Ditko in America (hell, I think Go Nagai had a bigger impact on that front), especially given what a big fucking deal Toriyama was in the late 80's/early 90's.

I think their point about Toei's adaptation overshadowing those aspects is a strong one, though.

>>150898637
>not every Shounen author post-DB used DB's success as their inspiration
>hurr why don't they though?

Do you not understand how retarded you sound right now?

>>150898815
But that's not what I said at all.

I said a lot of comics that ARE influenced by it usually don't take after its strong points, like its pacing and composition, and that's kinda strange. I'm not saying it's weird that Neuro or Haikyu don't take after it, but that stuff like Fairy Tail grabs strange things from it.

Z was a mistake.

>>150899085
>Super Sayains and Cell were a mistake.
Fixed that for you.

>>150899038
Fairy Tail has more in common with harem manga than DB, nice try though

>>150899138

Turning both Piccolo and Goku into aliens was an equally bad preceding mistake.

>>150899186
Should have picked one or the other.
Probably just Piccolo.

>>150899302

I don't even mind space-faring magical aliens like Babidi as a character concept. I think Goku should have been anything else: the last of his race, a biological experiment, a demigod or anything but an alien in the idiom of Superman.

>>150898333
>Evangelion
>negativity
wtf

>>150899038
>But that's not what I said at all.

>>150897990
>Who are you referring to, exactly?

>>150898333
>most Shonen series over the last 20 years

In other words, thats exactly what you said.

You literally don't even know which works you're critiquing, do you?

>>150899430
Well, making him an aliem isn't bad because of the Superman parallel because he was pretty much there already. It's more of an issue because it completely uproots the mystic element and creates a level of plot armor where only aliens matter. Like, Piccolo would have stayed on either way and Yamcha and Tien were destined to fade out because that's just how Toriyama writes, but there probably wouldn't even be a feeling that the androids "weren't good enough" if Goku wasn't a fucking alien.

File: Zrandyface.jpg (35KB, 184x283px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 184x283px

>>150897940
You know what "influenced" by Toriyama means? It means "I wanna do a battle shonen and try to imitate the artstyle". Nothing deeper.

>>150899843
OP is a complete retard who has no idea what he's talking about

>>150899749
>most Shonen series over the last 20 years
Why did you take out the part where this is a descriptor for
>action/adventure books that either take inspiration or just straight up rip it off
as if that's not relevant?

I'm not asking why things don't take after it, because that's retarded. I asked why most of the ones that DO take after it tend to ignore its technical aspects, which isn't really typical.

And some people gave some good explanations. So what are you engineering this argument for?

>>150899843
>and try to imitate the artstyle
My ass it does. They copy character cliches and arcs while using far more generic styles that are usually based more on popular anime.

>>150900002
Because most of the action/adventure manga you're thinking are 'DB inspired' are probably influenced by a much larger breadth of Shounen manga than what you seem to know about; the very fact you think Fairy Tail is 'DB inspired' and not 'casual Big Three ripoff' proves that you're an absolute retard with no business posting here.

>>150900002
Because being "influenced" by something doesn't mean wanting to make something like it. Furthermore, if they DO want to emulate it, that doesn't mean they want to emulate the parts that you, specifically, think are the best.

>>150900085
I said try.

>>150900108
Yeah, that's fair. About as valid as any other explanation. I'm just asking anon why they're shoving words in my mouth.

>>150900228
see >>150900094

The problem OP, is that people who take inspiration from media as groundbreaking as Dragon Ball only take one or two pieces of what made it great and roll with that. That happens with a lot of inspired works. They take one element from it and do their own things from there on. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I'd still prefer that over outright ripping it off and changing one or two things.

Mashima himself stated that DB inspired him.

>The pacing is masterful

This is bait.

>>150900517
That has nothing to do with
>>150898815
which is what I'm talking about here.

That's not even touching that the post you're quoting just assumes I'm saying Dragon Ball is somehow the singular or most prominent influential element in Shonen manga.

I mean, really, are we just going to continue this endless argument of semantics and series of baseless assumptions because I dared to say most shonen (since the demographic is saturated with action/adventure titles) are influenced by one of the biggest hits in decades? Can we just not have a civil discussion about this? Does this REALLY have to devolve into blatant shitposting?

>>150900664
>Presenting evidence
Ssshhh anon. Let them be.

>>150900804
Don't lie anon, it was so masterful when Goku had to train to beat the bad guy for the thirteenth time. Masterpiece.

>>150900823
Don't blame me for that fact that you failed to frame the discussion correctly, you haven't given a single example to back the point you're trying to make and are now trying to divert the blame towards me for calling you out for your lack of understanding of the topic you brought up for discussion.

>>150900914
>Plot = Pacing

I know /a/ is kinda retarded, but come the fuck on.

>>150900664
>>150900874
>expecting anyone to actually defend Fairy Tail

Fairy Tail is almost entirely derivative of the entire genre, not just Dragonball.

>>150901089
Yeah, everyone knows that. What's your point?

>>150901089
Q: Was there an artist or a particular story that inspired you to become a professional manga artist?

Hiro Mashima: Toriyama Akira, the creator of Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. Also, Yudetamago (a.k.a. Yoshinori Nakai and Takashi Shimada), the creators of Ultimate Muscle (a.k.a. Kinnikuman)

What was your favorite manga growing up?

Dragon Ball.

http://manga.about.com/od/mangaartistinterviews/a/HiroMashima.htm

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2008-08-17/hiro-mashima

These people are not the product of decades, not "I saw Bleach once now I am publishing". Same with the guy from My hero academia, he submitted a drawing for the Usopp gallery when he was in his teens.

>>150901206
That a single point does not make a trend.

>>150901264
*Are the product of decades.

>>150901264
Exactly, which is why OP's entire point is retarded.

>>150901269
Do you just spit out non-sequiters hoping to garner (You)s? That has nothing to do with anything.

>>150901364
>OP claims that numerous manga tried to copy DB and failed, despite DB not being the sole influence for any of them
>doesn't actually give examples to back his argument yet expects people to agree with him regardless

>Asking rhetorical questions on 4chan.
>On /a/ at that.
Jesus Christ OP.

>>150901440
Sounds like a typical DBfag to me

>>150901440
>OP asks why artists influenced by a book miss its strong points.
>This now means they somehow failed to copy it (when it was never said they were copying in the first place)
This isn't even moving goalposts. You changed the sport from Rugby to Curling.

>>150901694
I think you missed the point.

OP assumed his premise despite giving no examples to support it.

If Rugby was the intent, OP showed up with a football in his hand and a lacrosse stick shoved up his ass.

>>150901813
Would you have not shit up the thread if OP said Naruto, Bleach and Beet the Vandal Buster had shit pacing, or would you have come up with a different excuse to shitpost?

>>150901963
>expecting someone to use basic logical reasoning to explain their argument
>shitposting

>>150902363
You just ignored the point for another (You).
Guess that answers my question, though.

>>150902499
>You just ignored the point for another (You).
Likewise, shitposter-kun.