Can we all agree that the ressurrection of F was the worst shounen

Dragon Ball was never good.

Anyone watching it now does it only for nostalgia and nothing else.

>>150598328

If only it was as good as the Buu saga

>>150598355
fuck you

Kage Summit arc

>>150598328
>Freeza achieving a new form through asspull
It's been a lore thing for a long ass time that his race is BORN that fucking powerful. Also why Freeza loses his shit even back then when Goku told him to train at the end of Namek Saga. Idea here being "since they are born ridiculously powerful, they have egos just that large."

Only now after having been embarrassed so many times by the Z warriors does Freeza take training seriously, but like real life short term crazy fast gains, his power fluctuates so he can't maintain Golden Form forever.

>the new form that they hyped so much is just a shitty recolor, like almost everything that Toriyama has made in the last years with his skills that are at the same level as an average deviantart user
Golden form makes Freeza taller, his eyes area look more sleek and rigid, and he gets more buff. Aura changes, too.

There's slight changes in all forms. Super Saiyan Blue goes for a taller and muscular form, too but is thinner than their standard form giving them kind of a Bruce Lee style skinny but muscular look. Of course there's an aura change here, too much more drastic than anything in DBZ.

>super saiyan blue introduced with 0 explanation
Goku and Vegeta train with Whis who trains the God Of Destruction and is more powerful than the God Of Destruction. They learn to optimize the God ki from him.

>Gohan losing all of his dignity as a character
Still consistent with post-Cell Saga Gohan who isn't the fighting/training kinda guy. Still at the same level of "dignity loss' that he's been at since early Buu saga.

>Goku taking a laser in the heart
Through the help of Freeza telling Sorbet when to do it exactly, having sort of preplanned it to an extent. In Super he does it when Goku goes back down to base.

>Goku stealing Vegeta's kill
Freeza was losing stamina already against Goku in terms of maintaining Golden Form, Goku would've gotten the kill himself if he didn't get fucked by the laser.

Also Roshi being able to fight the soldiers even though they all have the same power level as raditz

>>150598328
have you watched Reborn?

>>150598328
>all this bullshit only so we can have some cheap fanservice by bringing back the most popular villain in the series in a underwhelming way
All this so we can have some funny goofy moments with some older characters, bring back a well established villain, get some new techniques/transformations/characters to show off, and put it all together in this newer updated world AT has made.

Yeah the ideas are honestly far better than the execution, but hopefully with the manga being the figurehead again, this shouldn't be as big a problem. Otherwise, having a show/movie that does aspects of DB and DBZ with some new stuff sprinkled in is great.

>>150598328
>worst shounen arc
no, that'd be the zamasu arc.

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>>150599013
>the arc that made the best DB memes
>worst

>>150598934
you've never seen bruce lee in your life, have you?

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>>150599195
Nothing but muscle yet skinny as fuck?

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>>150599308
He is something between ripped and ottermode

>>150598951
>It is now canon that hulk'd up Roshi could've BTFO Piccolo Jr. and Raditz with relative ease.

>>150599350
Ahhh okay. For the sake of this topic, by this pic, Goku/Vegeta go from Built to Ripped when they go SSB. Otherwise it's usually Built to something between Built and Bodybuilder.

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>>150599438

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>>150599472
His body doesn't change when he goes blue, it's when he goes SSG red that he becomes skinnier

>>150598328
>Freeza achieving a new form through asspull

Gohan getting his mystic form was an asspull.

Training is the absolute least asspull method to grow stronger as it's been the main one to achieve more power since the very beginning.

Your ADHD is off the charts.

>the new form that they hyped so much is just a shitty recolor
Toriyama is done with the edgy stuff is only goes for corny.

>super saiyan blue introduced with 0 explanation
Shock value.
>Gohan losing all of his dignity as a character
Gohan lost that long ago.
>Goku taking a laser in the heart
Toriyama hates us.
>Goku stealing Vegeta's kill
Vegeta took too long and got everyone killed. Should have learned from kid Gohan.

>>150599596
>Training is the absolute least asspull method to grow stronger as it's been the main one to achieve more power since the very beginning
>Roshi trains for an hour
>is suddenly beyond Zeno level
>muh training

>>150598328
>Can we all agree that the ressurrection of F was the worst shounen arc of all time?
Zamasu arc was way worst just because of the last 3 episodes.

>>150599554
True, pity we won't see much of that form again I did love SSG a lot because of how kaioken-esque it was. But the changes from SSG to SSB make sense considering he's turning Super Saiyan while having SSG on.

>>150599478
>regular base roshi is 180
>roided roshi's power up is significant enough to get up to the level to beat raditz

based fucking roshi

>>150598328
bumping, (You), and agreeing.

There is a reason they havent made another movie, because they know the fanbase wont fall for it. so they went the easy route of an anime, and even that is failing miserably.

>>150599478
So there was only 500 difference between Piccolo and Nappa when they fought? And yet, Piccolo, Tien, Chaiotzu, Krillin and Gohan (combined 10510) ? couldn't beat him?

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>>150598328
It should have been a short with just the other fighters showing off.
The worst parts involve goku and vegeta.
It's funny that enemies roshi can destroy enmasse are somehow not all killed in the blink of an eye by piccolo or even gohan. I guess they were just goofing off at a critical moment instead of winning quickly to help out.

The film had that Maximum The Hormone song in it.

Automatically best DB film ever.

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>watching BoG and RoF anime version
>not the film versions

>>150598328
Yes i totally agree this is deviant art level of anime.

>>150599478
>Chichi 130
>trained Goten to become a SS

POWER LEVELS ARE BULLSHIT

>>150598934
It still doesnt make any sense on all level you idiot because freeza doesn't even have competent training partner let alone teacher.

>>150600466
Super saiyan doesn't need proper training. It's just mind training even goten has reached super saiyan 3.

>>150599478
>Yajirobi stronger than goku during the Raditz fight

This is my favourite thing in this chart

It's a gag anime you fucking dumbfuck.

>>150598328
Skipped the arc in Super, but Resurrection of F is easily the best Dragon Ball movie (I'm not counting the Bardock and Trunks OVAs). It gave everyone, Krillin, Tien, Piccolo a part within the era of the series in which they had long been pushed to the side, when early films like Tree of Might didn't, and had charismatic villain who, in a weird way, actually ended up seeming fairly human; I almost pited Frieza after he lost his golden form ("this can't be happening, this is not the way this ends"). Also, turning Frieza into his bitch and paying back not only the beat down on Namek, but everything else, was the proudest moment for the Prince of All Jobbers; much like Krillin, Tien, and Piccolo he never gets to do anything in movies, but Frieza ended up being more terrified of him than he was of Goku. Reaction to finding out that he could turn Super Saiyan as well was priceless.

>Bleach
Could never really get into it, even during the first two arcs. Felt like a waste of a good concept that had already been done better in YYH. Bleach fanfiction does more with the hollows, in terms of making them unsettling, than the canonical series does.

>>150598368
fuck you 2?
enough with this game

>>150600528
And that plays a part in terms of why he couldn't maintain it, too.

>>150599478
>Blonde Bulma

>>150600731
Having more characters doesnt equal good or anything similar. It doesn't change the fact the story are shit because it's revolve around asspull's plot aka shit.

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>>150600785
A lot of characters have different colors in the manga

>>150600175
>power level being additive

ever watch with eyes open?

>>150600775
no you idiot the fact he can reach that level and even made goku and vegeta gangbang freeza eventhough he was weak as fuck before just doesn't make sense at all.

>>150600812
it's additive. The newton law say the force is additive.

Worst part about it is simply that they brought him back as though he was gonna be a huge threat again, then quickly established that no, he was still a non-threat.

>>150600175
Teamwork was never something that existed in DB

>>150600855
The worst part is that vegeta cannot escape the 5 minutes freeza countdown and reaching the whis' train.

>>150600842
power is a scalar
scalar's are not additive

>>150600789
Nope, but having all available characters actually doing something is nice. Using them all together to have the signature gag+action of DB is nice. Not having actual asspulls since everything's explained in the movie or is something that's part of the established canon is nice.

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>>150598328
>>150599478
did somebody say power levels?

>>150599685
No, he's going supersaiyan while using godki instead of normal mortal ki.

>>150600789
>It doesn't change the fact the story are shit

It's Dragon Ball. I don't watch a Dragon Ball movie for award winning writing and thematic depth, but seeing characters I like actually doing shit is highly important to my enjoyment. If Toriyama needs to introduce "asspulls," which he's always been fond of doing in regard to Goku (ridiculous power level increase from Earth to Namek, every transformation past Super Saiyan 1), to make the later happen then I'm all for it. And a likable and entertaining villain is extremely fucking important; far more so than any gripe about his new form. "He had never trained before," is a better explanation than what we got for most transformations in this series, and since he previously couldn't even sense ki it's not unfounded.

>>150600892
if future trunks is still lower than fused zamasu then how did he win?

>>150600610
Gotenks reached SSJ3.
Goten can't even go fucking ultrasaiyajin let alone SSj2. And he canonically never will.

>>150600889
>worse answer
do you even know what scalar is you idiot?

>>150600175
Dude, the fight between goku, piccolo and radditz was pure teamwork.
Second time was piccolo and krillian vs nappa.
Then it was krillian and gohan vs most of the universe.

>>150600891
It's asspull at best it's worse than fanfic story at worst.

>>150600949
vegetto weaken him enough for trunks to kill, but in the end it wasn't enough and zamasu turned universal becoming one with everything to time and samse that zeno needed to step in the erase him..

>>150600963
expected this, typical 4chin
do you even math?

>>150600892
Where is Toribot and arale?

>>150600921
i read a story not a fanfic masturbatory story so i hope at least there is quality.

>>150600892
This really needs some color coding or something to make it more legible.

Also Champa arc Piccolo seems a bit high

>>150600999
there is no statement the vegito weakened him let alone he was hurt by vegito.

>>150598328
>Can we all agree that Dragon Ball Super was the worst shounen arc of all time?
ye

>>150600999
He was still holding his own against vegetto
He didn't look or even act like he was weaker
He was already healing up all of the damage

Since this is DBZ and a shounen, getting an agelic form then getting uglier till you reach a final cool looking form is well..what everyone EVERYONE expected.

What we got is him being a bitch and trunks getting mary sue power ups that break every single bit of DB canon.

>>150601008
scallar mean it's multiplication you brainless idiot.

>>150601039
Piccolo almost defeated Frost if he hadn't used the poison, I think he should be even higher

>>150600892
FPSSJ>Third grade Trunks.

>>150601069
that's what I'm asking, how the fuck did trunks do it?

>>150600892
This isn't too bad, except Whis/Beerus/Vados/the whole god crew needs to be a lot higher, since they've made it clear again and again that Goku and co. are not reaching their level anytime soon. Also universal Zamasu should probably be a bit lower.

>>150601076
Goddamnit, I'm still pissed that Frost was made into a bad guy.

>>150600828
It makes all the sense. His race is so powerful they never fucking train. Frieza is considered a prodigy in his race so he can train better than others. Golden Form is the final evolution of his race. He trained non-stop for four months to even be able to reach it. Ultimately he can only hold it for a few minutes, almost like sprinting IRL. It's mentioned that he could've potentially held onto the form for longer if he trained correctly, but he has never trained.

It's pretty simple logic that works out when using the established rules of the canon.

>>150600914
That's what I meant.

>>150601070
>scallar
>mean multiplication

...

>>150601076
Poison is his body weapon like how goku's tail or freeza tail too

>>150601116
Toriyama said that in power level SSG Goku is a 6, beerus is a 10 and Whis is a 15, so SSB Vegetto is stronger than Beerus with no doubt

>>150601014
And why is it low quality? Because, "Frieza achieved a new form through asspul"? People become far too obsessed with treating power levels in Dragon Ball like serious math, when Toriyama can't even keep track of the existence of Tao and Launch. "Power levels are bullshit" isn't entirely true, but it's true enough that you shouldn't worry about specifics. Always has been.

>>150601115
He, apparently has a new SSJ form that is just basically the god version of the pseudo ssj form from the lord slug movie.
And he somehow made a genki dama into a sword and stabed him.

It was a genki dama made of the energy gathered from approximately 24 starving hobos, a talking turtle and an old housecat.

>>150601128
You must be an idiot to think that's possible there is no single character in all fiction exist that reach the level of freeza bullshitery even in fanfic this is beyond ridiculuous. if you have at least has 1 braincell you must be thinking this freeza asspull is stupid too.

>>150601175
is it a good thing that I don't watch DBS then?

>>150601140
He stated that it was a weapon that he had installed. Not natural.

>>150601128
He said that he never trained and that he's apparently a mutant prodigy. Not that others of his race never trained.
And lets be honest. Naturally his new form should have been a shape change, not a color change. It's not a logical chage.

>>150601137
keep being idiot you autist. at least i dare to answer unlike you the most idiot people on 4chan that cannot even have single courage to make a statement. you're way worse than a faggot and coward.

>>150601128
>He trained non-stop for four months to even be able to reach it.

4 months of random training without a proper teacher won't do shit.

And even if the base power is high doesn't means he have the potential to go so much higher.

It's stupid as fuck that Frieza just needs to do a jogging to get 10 times stronger.

This whole power up litterally only hapened because Tori was asked to put back Frieza into revelance. It manages to be even worst of an asspull than the SSGod ritual.

>>150601218
For the most part..yeah.
Just tune in for the Goku vs Hiit fight and ignore everything else.

>>150601128
The sayians are the one supposed to have a massive potential, and that's why Frieza feared them you retard.

>>150601164
low quality because this is asspull beyond believe. akira toriyama did put a scale comparing beerus ss god and whis he did keep track of power level

>>150601177
>this is stupid
>that is stupid
That's all you got to say. Jeez and I thought us "shonenshitters" were supposed to be the dumb and inarticulate ones.

>>150601220
>Not that others of his race never trained.
True, though all that we have seen of is race so far is the same type of egotistical lazy prick so I wouldn't be surprised. Maybe other Frieza/Frost equivalents in other Universes might've done it we'll see.

>Naturally his new form should have been a shape change, not a color change. It's not a logical chage.
Well, he does get taller and the eyes thing happens, and the real shape change already happened in his fourth form so someone else's Golden form will still look very different from that perspective. Not to mention that the Gold is something Frieza does and can be changed to whatever color the user likes.

>>150601220
natural or not for moon busting or earth busting at least monster to be penetrated by such a shit weapon it's stupid beyond believe. He must be weak as fuck not show that coming and cannot deflect it.

>>150601298
lol i made a statement and answer you idiot unlike you that keep shitposting at maximum and making no statement because of your idiocy and your logic flaws.

>>150601229
He had that Tagoma guy.

>>150601249
That doesn't mean his own race wasn't already powerful enough, you dumbfuck. Again, fucking follow the entire post chain, but I'll spoonfeed you the moment again. DBZ, Goku looking like he's about to end Frieza. He doesn't, tells Frieza to train and come back stronger. That TRIGGERS him because he doesn't do shit like that. His race is meant to be on a base level more powerful than the Saiyans, but he fears that Saiyans do have a trick or two up their sleeves that can eventually possibly make one stronger than him (like Super Saiyan, healing from injuries.)

>>150601305
>saw that coming

>>150601345
Name one logic flaw. Oh wait you haven't, all you do is call DB stupid and call me an idiot while here I am explaining exactly why and how everything happened.

>>150601354
tagoma is weak as fuck and bug level of relevant even super replace him and put him on bin

>>150601354
>He had that Tagoma guy.

A Zarbon tier guy as a punching ball makes for a Whis tier training? Wew.

Talking about him, if anything Tagoma got an even more bullshit power up considering he's just originally a little shit, he shouldn't have gotten any stronger than Krilin.

Dragon Ball was always crap. It's okay to like it since you probably found it as a kid and thus there's a lot of nostalgia involved, but you should really stop being surprised at it being garbage now that you're older.

Sorry, but it's the harsh truth.

>>150601377
All and whole your posting is full of logic flaw and ilogical answer.

>>150601354
>He doesn't, tells Frieza to train and come back stronger. That TRIGGERS him because he doesn't do shit like that.

Triggered him so much he didn't even bother training back then.

>>150601406
>Dragon Ball was always crap
>always

look at the jump sales dive when DB ended

>>150601256
>beerus and whis

We go through the Buu Saga with the Supreme Kai shocked that anything can be as powerful as the saiyans, who had surpassed every other god mentioned throughout the series ages ago, and then Toriyama introduces Whis and Beerus and Champa and all of these other universes to justify why Goku and Vegeta have gone from above god tier to middling. The mere existence of Whis and Beerus has always felt like an asspull, and a far more fundamental one with a larger effect than Golden Frieza, but I'm willing to roll with it if it means more stories and because this sort of escalation is nothing new in Dragon Ball ("You know that guy who was definitely the strongest being in the entire universe? Well the next arc villain is 100 times stronger").

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>>150601222
notice how points mean scalars
notice temperature is a scalar
notice how you are a faggot

>>150601442
i'm not playing with your bullshitery. if something like freeza case happened before people may defend it but no villain can pull an asspull such a freeza case.

>>150601392
>>150601397
Yeah, but it's Frieza that's getting trained. Like you guys are really missing the point of Frieza throughout the entire series here if this doesn't make sense. He's meant to be presented as the guy who essentially became all powerful just like that, without even trying. That's an ENORMOUS part of his character. When you see him for the first time he's not even showing an ounce of how powerful he actually is, just sitting and hanging out in his floating chair thing. He feels discomfort when he has to change forms because it feels like he actually has to try. When Goku had him outmatched back then on Namek, and Goku said that he should train more, the sense of superiority Frieza built was torn apart completely with the pride that he had in his sheer talent just embarrassed.

Frieza is the talent side of the talent vs hard work dichotomy taken up to 11. In order for RoF to maintain this aspect of his character, he HAD to have done something insane like get some decent gains through training (though again, good guys mention that if he trained CORRECTLY AND BETTER he would've been able to maintain the form even longer.) Frieza in REAL TIME is Golden Form for anywhere from five to ten minutes. Otherwise he's still comparatively weak as fuck Frieza.

>>150601415
No, triggering him so much BECAUSE he didn't even bother training back then.

>>150601560
> No, triggering him so much BECAUSE he didn't even bother training back then.

I'm talking about after he got wrecked by Goku and before he got slaughtered no dif by Trunks.

>>150601442
But that's cuz he's the eastern Supreme Kai, who has only comparatively had his job recently and doesn't know about other high tier peeps even Zeno because of his comparative inexperience to other Kais.

>>150601584
Yeah, didn't train then either. He thought he would be able to take care of it with Daddy Cold, and his ultimate desire wasn't even to kill Goku, but to kill everyone and everything close to him during that scene.

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>>150598934
>unironically defending shitter ball piss
embarrassing

>>150601491
this bullshit actually scalar has many meaning including how temperature work but that's too long to answer. your idiocy may be surpased an idiot. how can a power level is a point cannot be added when power is identical to force and people on dragonball often ganging on 1 people to put more advantage.

>>150600892
Zamasu>Buu Saga Vegetto
Zamasu> Golden Freeza
Why the fuck is Zamasu that low?

>>150598328
You are absolutely correct OP, but Dragonball Superfags are genuinely autistic, so they can't accept it.

>>150601651
so your addition meant ganging on?
seriously?
rly?

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>>150601161
If we take this scale then you'd need to get exponentially stronger to get to the next number.
If Goku only got 2x stronger he'd still be a 6
Kaioken times 10 is still weaker than Beerus so it didn't push him that far in this scale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IrC930pV_k

>>150598328
I often read fanfic and understand the bullshitery of mc sudden change and never thought i will see the day that's even a villain can do bullshit than those mc fanfic bullshit but brainless idiot will keep defending it. Freeza bullshit is another level of bullshit it's first time i see so much bullshit not even any fanfic story has done before.

>>150601161
From an old interview years ago

>>150601672
yes you idiot with no brain and faggot too.

>>150601161
That scale was made prior to DBS existing. It's no longer relevant

>>150602291
i don't see a reason how it's not relevant because dbs retelling it.

>>150600806
>ressurrection d
>dodoria comes back with a new golden form (that manga color)
>Prince of Jobbers gets kill this time

>>150602361
It's no longer relevant BECAUSE it's a retelling. Beerus has been given a major power boost in the anime. If we used the old scale Goku would have already surpassed Beerus.

>>150602519
i never see beerus even training at all

>>150601177
>You must be an idiot to think that's possible
Except it is possible because it actually happened in the canon, you moronic fucking retard.

>>150602599
cannot even proof it and got checkmated try calling other retard. You really an idiot beyond believe. Freeza bullshit has make the ruling about mc bullshit asspull always the most bullshit asspull. when freeza asspull exist all mc bullshit has happened before is not even comparable to freeza bullshitnes he made a record.

>>150602890
> he made the ruling about mc bullshit asspull always the most bullshit asspull became obsolete
>he made a record to defeat all the MC asspulls

>>150602890
>cannot even proof it
There's nothing to prove. Just watch the arc and read the interviews. You're denying facts simply because you don't like them. That makes you stupid.

>>150602988
you must be a neanderthal idiot where in the interview statement that there is more bullshit in fiction exist that has more bullshit than freeza bullshit?

>>150603043
Is English not your first language?

>>150603530
Were you that african that pretended to be native speaker?

>>150603574
Wow, you're retarded. Please kill yourself.

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>>150599013

Who could be responsible for this post?

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>>150598934
All of your defenses are things said as an off comment explanation or had to be inferred by the viewer.

There is a lot of potential in a Return of Frieza plot and they pretty much trashed all of it

>Showing us Frieza's training and what it means

>Showing us Goku & Vegeta's training and what it means

>explaining Ki and the differences between Ki & God Ki

>establishing a frame of reference for where each character stands against each other

They could've done a reversal of the original Frieza fight and made this an interesting take on how Vegeta has developed

They could've made Frieza's training include something dubious, like a wish to undergo all of Goku's training. Then have Frieza become conflicted in his victory over Goku.

They didn't really try anything new.
it was a very safe movie with a safe Goku vs Badguy formula

Goku in a big colorful aura vs Badguy in a big purple black aura doesn't mean anything if we don't have the context at which they stand or whats at stake.

Also Frieza sucking Beerus's dick and not even blowing up the planet in 5 minutes to maybe at least give Whis some pause in letting shit get out of hand with his 3 minute reversal. Truly the worst of all asspulls.

>>150603574
go to bed Pedro it's past your bed time.

>>150598355
dragon ball was never this bad, not even gt

>>150604620

Bullshit. everything with the Red Ribbon Army and King Piccolo was ended by bullshit from Goku.

>>150604620
just wait til Toyotaro and Toriyama to drop the manga version which is the definitive version for Toriyama's vision.
Hopefully with the manga ahead that means that the anime isn't all Toei fanfiction tier.

>>150598934
How can you be this much of an apologist? Why?

>>150598934
>trying to debunk every single criticism as wrong

The number#1 telltale sign of a fanboy worthless biased opinion.

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You know it's bad when GT's version of supersayan subsequent transformations are more interesting than the "official" ones.

>>150604743
>>150604919
There are definitely flaws, but those aren't it.

>>150604266
>All of your defenses are things said as an off comment explanation or had to be inferred by the viewer.
This I actually agree with. It is easily the largest fault of the DB franchise. You can find info everywhere these days through wikis, Daizenshuu, etc. but that's not necessarily the best way to deliver your product.

>They could've done a reversal of the original Frieza fight and made this an interesting take on how Vegeta has developed
Vegeta becoming Super Saiyan and actually being the one to officially down him in his Golden form does exactly this down to Frieza's very reaction.

>They could've made Frieza's training include something dubious, like a wish to undergo all of Goku's training. Then have Frieza become conflicted in his victory over Goku.
This would be out of character for Frieza.

>They didn't really try anything new. it was a very safe movie with a safe Goku vs Badguy formula
Definitely agree here. Even though Frieza's always a fun romp, and any scene with Beerus/Whis has been great so far with Super/movies, I think AT or maybe it's the guys at Toei are having a tough time with how to approach some of the big returns. They arguably didn't do enough with Frieza, so they went the total opposite direction with Future Trunks which has also been quite divisive in that manner for all the crazy shit he gets.

>Also Frieza sucking Beerus's dick and not even blowing up the planet in 5 minutes to maybe at least give Whis some pause in letting shit get out of hand with his 3 minute reversal. Truly the worst of all asspulls.
It's goddamn Beerus and Whis, what do you expect? Especially of the fastest guy within the universe, Whis?

>>150600528
he had that punching bag that he kept re healing remember. dude was fucked in the head after freeza just kept beating him to death and getting stronger all the while

>>150598328

>Every DBZ fag says he is the best villain by far
>Had the worst arc in Super by far

really makes you think

>>150601531
I can't even decipher what the fuck you're trying to say. Come back in a few years you ESL fag.

>>150604955
Maybe if you're into furry

>>150598355
super is a big pile of shite

>>150600892
Super fucked shit up with power scales,but if you take Super out the only thing I'd disagree with is Vegito and Gotenks being on the same tier as Gohan and the SSJ2s respectively.

Base form Saiyans are not that strong, it's once they go Super Saiyan that they fucking skyrocket.

>>150598328
Probably, but at least it's still not the worse Dragon Ball movie

>>150601076
Piccolo should have defeated him. Fuck the Goku and Vegeta show.