Why didn't they just ask Shenron to make the sayans spaceships

How would that help anyone?

Why didn't they wish for the location of Gero's lab? Not only could they have still gotten to fight the androids like they wanted, but they wouldn't have had to wait until people died first.

and if Supreme Kai wasn't a shitter, he could've gathered the balls and wished either to have Buu's ball transported wherever he wanted or he could've made Babidi appear right in front of him and Kabito. He wouldn't have even needed to get any of the others involved.

Why didn't they just wish for Goku to be automatically stronger than any villain that ever appears in the future?

>>149918981
The get stuck in the middle of nothing and die of lack of air or starvation.
Seems straighforward to me.

If Shenron has just as much power as the namekian that created him, why can't that namekian bring people back to life?

Why didn't they wish for this all to end before super?

Why couldn't they just wish Goku's heart disease away?

>>149919063
Beyond Shenron's power, this was stupid.

Why didn't they just wish for Earth to have an impenetrable shield? It would still let sunlight and other normal things in, but it would specifically keep hostile life forms like Vegeta and Nappa, or even Frieza out.
Then the next issue would be the androids and cell... but that issue is for another time.

>>149919381
How was a shitter from the Red Ribbon able to create robots stronger than the ruler of the Galaxy and his henchmen?

>>149919479
Same way literally anybody in Dragon Ball was able to create anything they did: It made for a half-decent storyline so it was written that way.

Shit, we wouldn't have this story at all if some random schmuck making miracle technology wasn't a thing.

>Shenron isn't capable of killing anyone of relevance
>but he can make someone invincible even against the mc and gods
Toriyama a hack.

>>149919479
Because Humans have a higher intelligence potential than fighting potential. I think inventing a time machine is a greater feat than making robots stronger than aliens anyway.

>>149919835
Usually the power creep is justified, but one guy from an ancient DB storyline going from a Frankenstein monster to something stronger than Frieza?
Shit writing.

>>149919861
That much makes sense within his limitations: He can't negatively affect anyone stronger than his creator, or affect them at all without their consent. So Zamasu could wish immortality on himself, but couldn't wish to kill G...

Well, he could kill Goku with the super dragon balls but he couldn't have if he used the regular or namek ones.

The biggest mess in DB/Z is simply that toriyama isn't a great writer, so writing about wish granting balls the main cast has free access to didn't work out too well.

Why didn't Toriyama just wish to be a good writer?

>>149920466
No one said it was well written, it's just that human science is bullshit in the manga. If they can make capsules and time machines, ultra righting robots aren't that big a deal.

>>149920504
Because writing skill is not a prerequisite to success.

>>149918897
I don't think it will work if the person inside the spaceship is stronger than shenron/kami.

>>149920466
He was doing research for like 20 years. Why can a person train for 3 years and go from 5mil to like 50mil or whatever but a fictional scientist can't make a breakthrough in 20?

>>149919007
Supreme kai didn't investigate earth properly.

Why didn't they just say no to the Cell Games?

>>149920571
That's bullshit. What does the person inside have to do with the machine itself?

>>149920628
Cell would have killed them all. Cell Games was him being merciful, and Toriyama not know what to do with Cell now that he accomplished all of his goals.

Where did all the animal people disappear between DB and DBZ?

>>149918897

Is Vegeta a Prison Bitch?

Why didn't Goku just drop Cell on Kais planet and teleport back?

>>149920770
No time.

>>149920797
Also before anyone mentions how he stood there and spoke for a while

Talking is a free action

>>149920931
Right. in the manga he only said a line or so, and it's been established moving to and from Kai's world is hard due to "distance", whatever that means in the world of the dead. .

>>149920668
>Toriyama not know what to do with Cell now that he accomplished all of his goals.

Well, to be fair, Cell was also arrogant as fuck, and had those Saiyan cells in him. He probably just wanted to fight the strongest person he possibly could to see what he was capable of.

>Toryiama will never bring back Android 16 upgraded and ready to fuck Goku's shit

Such a fucking nice fighting style, brute force combined with having a body that can do all sorts of crazy shit

>ITT: frodo

>>149920685
Subhumans were purged.

Talking to dead people has never been in a problem in DBZ, so how come Goku didn't go visit Kai and help bulma and trunks find new Namek? or, at the very least Goku could've talked to the villagers and they could've used those balls to bring back everyone, or at least a few people.

>>149921238
Goku is retarded.

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Why didn't Goku just teleport to earth (or ask Kibitoshin to), then come back to the Kaioshin planet with the revived Mystic Gohan who could easily defeat and erase kid buu?

For that matter, why did the Genkidama have trouble with Kid Buu, since Gohan had give his power and his power was much greater, much more than enough to completely erase super/kid buu?

If Goku became good just because he hit his head, would another hit like that make him evil again?

i wished to have more autism in this thread and it looks like it was granted.

>>149921238
I think he didn't get to keep his body from dying of the heart disease, thus couldn't go to King Kai's planet.

>>149919007
>Why didn't they wish for the location of Gero's lab? Not only could they have still gotten to fight the androids like they wanted, but they wouldn't have had to wait until people died first.

Goku, Vegeta, and Piccolo deliberately said they wanted to fight the Androids and that Bulma should shut up.

>>149921551
Good people keep their bodies, see Gohan Senior.
Even if they didn't, they can still hang out with people in the afterlife, so nothing would prevent him from visiting king kai.
Same deal for yamcha, tien, piccolo etc, since they all trained with king kai as well.

>>149921402
>Why didn't Goku just teleport to earth (or ask Kibitoshin to), then come back to the Kaioshin planet with the revived Mystic Gohan who could easily defeat and erase kid buu?

For the same reason they didn't fuse. They wanted to fight him.

Why didn't they just ask that demon guy from DB that could make the evil in a person kill him from the inside to deal with all the villains?

>>149921688
When he had to resort to the genkidama, the fight was over and he was just trying to save the earth.

>>149921402
Why didn't Goku just teleport to earth (or ask Kibitoshin to), then come back to the Kaioshin planet with the revived Mystic Gohan who could easily defeat and erase kid buu?
Goku is really stupid (see crushing the spare potaras) and wanted to fight buu

>For that matter, why did the Genkidama have trouble with Kid Buu, since Gohan had give his power and his power was much greater, much more than enough to completely erase super/kid buu?

That's one's not a plot hole. Goku was weakened and pushing very lightly. Once he got his strength back the genkidama instantly overwhelmed buu.

>>149921765
>Goku is really stupid (see crushing the spare potaras) and wanted to fight buu
See: >>149921755

>>149921765
>That's one's not a plot hole. Goku was weakened and pushing very lightly
But he said he hadn't received enough energy after Gohan donated his. Since Gohan was more than capable of destroying kid buu on his own, his energy alone should have been more than enough.

>>149921078
There are lots of cool things Toriyama can do but won't because it's un-Toriyama-like.

>Bulma mass produces Android 16s to defend the Earth
>Gohan actually does teach the Earth's population how to manipulate ki

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PA8Mo6ij1s

>>149921709
>implying Toriyama remembers anything that happened in dragonball

>>149921815

Ki amount does not automatically compute to fighting power, especially in regards to Buu who can reform from atoms.

>>149920660
Nothing.

DBZ people are stupid. Not just the fans and the author, but the characters in the DBZ universe as well.

>>149921974
But Ki amount does compute to power of the ki blast that was going to be used to erase Buu. Since gohan alone had more than enough ki to erase buu, his ki alone should have been enough for the gennki dama.

>>149919227
That would have been smart, but better to reserve the wish for reviving the fallen.

>>149919227

There wasn't any reason to. Trunks already gave him the cure. He's the retard that didn't take it.

>>149921709
There's a "what if" scenario like that in a videogame.
Anyway, the Akuman ray is just that, a ray. Meaning, it can be dodged.
Same as Ginyu's body switch.

>>149922086
He means in the future. In the past Goku didn't take it not because he was stupid, but because he never got sick until the androids appeared due to poorly thought out timefuckery.

>>149922157
All they had to do was put them in a full nelson and have devilman kill them.

Devilman would be the greatest hero.
Cell and Buu would both survive the attack, but they'd regenerate into pure beings of good.

Imagine, we could have pure-hearted Cell and Buu.

>>149919155
who says Kami can't?
Dende was able to bring back people to life in some way

>>149919479
because Frieza isn't the ruler, there is no such thing as far as we know
he's the leader of a World Trade Organization

>>149922310
He could heal them before they died, not bring them to life.

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>>149920685
same place the dinosaurs went
i always thought of it like this
most of DB takes place on one side of the world, while DBZ takes place on another
its like this, just cause billions of Chinese and Indians exist on one side of the world doesn't mean you're gonna see nothing but them if you live in New England

>>149921940
You'd think all the assistants and editors these mangaka have would remember this stuff, but nope.

>>149922235
>All they had to do was put them in a full nelson and have devilman kill them.

At that point you don't need him anymore, like in the fight with Raditz. You could even ask Krilin.

>>149922172

He probably died super quick. He almost died immediately in the present time.

>>149922368
>because Frieza isn't the ruler, there is no such thing as far as we know

This.
For all we know he was just bullshitting, even Vegeta called himself the "number one in the universe" at some point before.

>>149922368
I thought that Frieza was ruler of galaxy's real estate speculators

>>149922546
What? He gradually lost strength until he couldn't move, then he suffered for hours while he was taken home, then the medicine located.

I mean sure, it was rapid onset, but I find it hard to believe they cound't have wished him to health before he died, or wished him back soon after.
And don't you dare fucking say that counts as a natural death. STRESS-induced shortened lifespan doesn't count as a fucking natural death.

>>149922631

Oh, it's YOU. It's always fucking you.

>>149922672
Where do you think you are, anonymous?

>>149918897
Why didn't the Red Ribbon Army just snipe Goku?

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>>149922717
They did. Goku was strong when he was 12.

>>149922631

Pretty sure they didn't wish Goku back because they just chose not to. He was just unlikely enough to catch a heart virus, like many people on earth. They were in peaceful times and had no reason to think the Androids would pop up and would be strong enough to get past EVERYONE. Even if Goku was alive, he would have been BTFO by them too. The only person who could have beaten them is Kamiccolo, but Piccolo got killed before he was able to fuse.

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>>149922589
>>149922596
speaking of which this really opens a lot of possibilities of how wide the universe of dragon ball can really be
like there can be tons of strong people out there
i mean where does Frieza even get guys like the Ginyus? sure they're not as strong as he is, but there's gotta be bigger fish around in some galaxies
hell technically Tagoma is stronger than Frieza before Frieza got gold.
even ignoring the filler there must people strong people scattered all over the universe

If the Mafuba could work on the likes of Zamasu, and Picolo KNEW that, why did he not suggest its use against the likes of the Saiyans, Frieza, Cell, or Buu?

>>149922754
>Pretty sure they didn't wish Goku back because they just chose not to. He was just unlikely enough to catch a heart virus, like many people on earth. They were in peaceful times
That's actually fair.

>Even if Goku was alive, he would have been BTFO by them too. The only person who could have beaten them is Kamiccolo
No, the androids in Trunk's time are much weaker than the ones in the "main timeline". Trunks or Gohan could fight them both at once. If Goku had been alive and able to work with Vegeta, there's a good chance they could have won.

>>149922791

There were two Saiyans. Even if he managed to Mafuba Nappa, he would have been instantly killed by Vegeta. Frieza was a shitty situation gone sideways. Once he fused with Nail, he was able to outpace second form Frieza. Then Frieza transformed twice over and it was RIP. Cell probably knows the mafuba so he could probably reverse it. The Buu arc takes place within a few hours and shit gets really real really fast.

Why did they start hiding their superpowers like flying and shooting beams from the public as if they had never seen such a thing? Back in DB they'd fly and shoot beams during tournaments and the public was used to it, it was assumed that martial arts just worked like that in their world.

>>149922805
>No, the androids in Trunk's time are much weaker than the ones in the "main timeline".

And the main characters are still weaker. Which is why literally everyone is killed by them, including Vegeta, rather easily. Both 17 and 18 literally said they were taking it easy on both of them.

>>149922856
>And the main characters are still weaker

But not by so much. Goku as a super saiyan was likely strong enough to be able to fight them 2v1.
By comparison in the main timeline, any one of them could absolutely trash not only a super saiyan, but everyone else all at once.
Thus if Goku had been alive, there's a good chance they could have beat them working together.

>>149922737
to be fair focused energy attacks do a shit load of damage even if the user is weak
i mean Krillin could have killed Nappa with his Kienzan despite being only a fraction of his power

>>149922910
>But not by so much. Goku as a super saiyan was likely strong enough to be able to fight them 2v1.

But that's wrong. They killed Vegeta almost immediately. Who was also a Super Saiyan, and who probably trained the hardest out of everyone during peaceful times because that's Vegeta.

>>149922737
Why didn't they just use tear gas on him

>>149922933
Krillin was about 1/7th of Nappa's power.
Goku SSG is billions of times stronger than Frieza was on his heyday.

>>149922977
>But that's wrong. They killed Vegeta almost immediately
You don't know that he was a super saiyan in Trunk's timeline. We do know that by the time trunks grows up, the big reason they can't fight back is there's only one warrior capable of facing them together at any time, first Gohan, then himself.

So even if Vegeta was actually a super saiyan, the reason he'd lose is because he was alone, as in no one else could hope to match them enough to contribute. But if both vegeta and goku were alive, the odds would even out a whole lot.

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>>149918897
why didn't they just wish for more wishers

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>that scene where goku tells gohan to go be a hero as he leaves to fight super buu
DBZ should have ended with ultimate gohan defeating buu

>>149922737
And to think Gohan was twice as tall and 100 million times stronger than that when he was 11.

Power levels truly are bullshit.

>>149923034
>You don't know that he was a super saiyan in Trunk's timeline.

That's wrong. He's clearly a Super Saiyan when he's killed by 17.

>So even if Vegeta was actually a super saiyan, the reason he'd lose is because he was alone

Now you're doing headcanon. Being killed immediately is the equivalent of being outmatched. Furthermore, everyone was killed right after each other as they all went to the same battlefield.

>>149923166
>That's wrong. He's clearly a Super Saiyan when he's killed by 17.
Animeonly shit.
>>149923166
>Now you're doing headcanon. Being killed immediately is the equivalent of being outmatched
Animeonly shit, the manga never went into detail. Neither Trunks nor Gohan were stronger than Vegeta SS. Since Gohan could fight both androids together, and so could trunks, it's stands to reason that while 1 super saiyan like vegeta would be barely outmatched fighting both together, if goku was alive they'd have been even or they might have had the advantage.

Why didn't Goku divorce ChiChi?

>>149923222
Because he loves her and she's the mother of his children.

>>149923098
I fucking loved that fight, right up until Gohan got fucking eaten. I was so hyped when I thought Gohan was going to defeat Buu
>Fight you? No, I wanna kill you.

>>149923221
>Gohan, who has more latent ability than Goku and Vegeta, is beaten handily by 17, who didn't even use half his power
>But more, weaker, Super Saiyans, would have helped

Sure, bro.

>>149923237
She's a shrew of a woman.
He abandons her to train for weeks at a time.
Her helicopter parenting has almost doomed humanity several times.
Gohan clearly should have become a fighter or worked with animals but she pushes him into becoming a 'scholar'.

You're implying there was any thought or planning put into dragon ball at that point.

>>149923302
>latent ability

Are you fucking dumb? Future Gohan never became very strong. He wasn't a fighting genius like his dad. He did well to get that far on his own, but he never surpassed Goku of the android saga, judging by how Trunks measures up to the androids and Goku.

That said EVEN if they were both weaker than Future Gohan, which is unlikely, the reason Gohan lost against the androids was the 2 on 1. Meaning 1v1, it was even or abouts.
Simply having someone else to make it 1v1 would have made a world of difference.

>>149923381
>the reason Gohan lost against the androids was the 2 on 1.

Animeonly shit. 17 beat him alone in the manga without using half his power.

>>149923318
Yes, but she also keeps feeding him. He'll never leave as long as she keeps doing that.

>>149923318
Gohan always wanted to be a scholar.

>>149922737
maybe blue turns Goku into a glass canon. lots of power but at the expense of defense?

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>>149923423
I don't remember that chapter that well, so I'll take your word for it. But it's established trunks at least was able to fight them both together and put up a fight. The future androids were strong, but not hopelessly impossible to beat like the present ones. Having a second super saiyan on the day they appeared would have a good chance of turning the tables.

Why don't they just spam Taiyoken?
Why don't they use Taiyoken followed by Kienzan?

>>149923318
She has successfully raised the smartest saiyan that has ever existed.

And history is a fickle thing. Change even one aspect of Chichi at all and Goku as well as Gohan would be different people entirely The only way to guarantee that the world is safe is for history to have happened exactly the way it did without any change.

It's the same thing with Cell. Sure if Gohan had tried to finish him off sooner then maybe Goku would have survived. As a direct result though android 18 would have remained dead. Krillin wouldn't have married her and had a child. Gohan would never have seen the error of his ways, and he would have continued being a ruthless killing machine with greater potential than any saiyan. He might have killed Cell and immediately turned around and killed Vegeta and Piccolo as well.

The butterfly effect is an interesting thing to ponder and it has been fun thinking about it in any case.

>>149923591
>She has successfully raised the smartest saiyan
Says who? When did gohan display any particularly smart behavior? She raised the most studious saiyan at best.

>>149923560

Trunks is constantly overestimating his abilities. He went to fight the Androids, got BTFO, and then fled to the past after laying in the hospital. They deliberately left him alive so they were clearly toying with him. How would he know their true strength given that was the only time he tried to fight them.

>>149923705
Well, trunks having fought both would have the best understanding of the difference between the 2 sets of androids. Generally speaking it's accepted that the future androids overwhelmed the earth's warriors because Goku wasn't there.

>>149923777
>Well, trunks having fought both would have the best understanding of the difference between the 2 sets of androids.

He is literally constantly wrong about everything.

>Generally speaking it's accepted that the future androids overwhelmed the earth's warriors because Goku wasn't there.

There is no indication Goku would have gotten that much stronger than Vegeta. Vegeta died from a kick from one android. Even assuming Goku were there, Vegeta would still have been killed immediately in the same way. So would everyone else. After all, when they were given the opportunity to train, Goku and Vegeta were constantly surpassing each other during that arc. Vegeta would have trained just as much, even if he didn't know the Androids were around. And he still lost to a kick. Goku would have had to been OVERWHELMINGLY more powerful than Vegeta.

What exactly was Cells end game?

I've always thought that the androids were only that powerful because they had downloaded the fighting style of all the z-fighters. So they weren't necessarily stronger than Freiza, just a counterpick to the z-fighters. Also, infinite energy engines let them fight at 100% without getting tired.

>>149924131
1. become perfect
2. kill son goku
that's all, really, and he accomplished both of those things.
i guess after taking care of the remaining Z fighters he was going to go in retirement and play golf all day

Why doesn't Vegeta just admit his repressed love for Goku?

>>149924218
>play golf all day

i don't know why, but that made me laughed

>>149924218
>2. kill son goku
He didn't care about killing Goku. The only thing Gero told him was he was Gero's greatest creation and he will be perfect if he absorbs 17 and 18. 16 was the only one programmed to kill Goku.

Hello, anonymous posters.

Is this truly not a wonderful day for killing of Son Goku?

>>149923074
cuz the genie would say upfront "you can't do that" and kill you.

>>149923591
>Gohan would never have seen the error of his ways, and he would have continued being a ruthless killing machine with greater potential than any saiyan. He might have killed Cell and immediately turned around and killed Vegeta and Piccolo as well.
Gohan Black, I want to see this movie.

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>>149922737
>dat croc

>>149923222
Don't you have that backwards, anon?

Goku wouldn't divorce ChiChi because what other woman would put up with his bullshit? The real question is why doesn't ChiChi divorce Goku? He seems to love training and fighting more than his family and rarely shows them any sort of affection. The few genuine moments we see between Goku and his family are with Gohan... I don't think we've seen any quality Goku/ChiChi moments since Dragonball.

Aside from that, he spends all of his time training or traveling on some fighting in adventure in space/other planets/the afterlife/etc. Oh yeah, and let's not forget the time he spends dead. That's gotta hurt the relationship as well

>>149921413
Sounds better than Goku black..

>>149920490
He's good enough, frankly. He strung together a relatively coherent plot for a manga, on a weekly schedule, with pure improv for a decade. Later he managed to put together stuff that made "evil Goku with pink hair terrorizes Trunk's timeline" actually work.

i remember the first time i watched dragon ball and thinking "is bulma going to wish for goku to be older so she can date him?" sucks that BulmaXGoku never happened.

>>149918897

Earth Dragon balls can't melt steel beams.