Retired female animator of PA says she was collected 6k yen a

She had to pay to use her desk?

Why

thank you for letting us now

>>149303609
Yes.
A company created SHIROBAKO was KUROBAKO.

>>149303748
Kurobaka

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>>149303557
>there's a Jap on /a/

What are all those fees?
I can only read Bus something, I assume fare.

PROGRESSIVE ANIME WORKS

This is what happens when you don't have an union or it sucks.

>>149303557
That is really sickening.

Still it is better than you are your family starving to death at home.

>>149303882
More like Progressive Enslaving Works.

>>149303557
How many hours/week did she work?
I can't believe that's a full time worker's wage in a first world country.
Unskilled construction laborers earn more here.

>>149303557
Her salary was 106k yen. 67k after the expenses like
taxes 10029
bento price 7990
boarding expenses 15000
condo fees 3000
bus ticket 2500

So it's not so bad.

>>149304214
106 000 yen - that's your average salary in Poland.... well according to the financial minister.
Most people earn half of that.

>>149303557
>67k
It says there 106k.

67k after expenses.

Which means she was doing fine.

>retire
Dayum.

>>149304286
But you don't get to draw cute girls.

>>149304286
It all depends on the country/city really.

But it's pretty clear that the salary was enough since even with all her expenses she still has 70% of it. I still think animators should be paid more, but yeah.

>>149303557
>Amount Billed (Tax excluded) 98,230
>Consumption Tax 7,858
>Amount Billed (Tax included) 106,088
>Amount Deducted 38,519
>>Retention Tax 10,029; Lunch Costs 7,990; Dormitory Costs 15,000; Dormitory Common Costs 3,000; Bus Costs 2,500

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>>149303557
>6k yen a month to use her desk
>She pays to work

Man Japanese are fucking retarded, I can't deal with their shit

>>149303557
100K yen every month is basically around CDN$8 to CDN$10 for us after taxes.

I thought Japan was supposed to be a 1st world country

>>149303557
>584,825696 Euro
Lmao

>>149303557
Did she mention how long her working hours were?

>106k yen
Even tuition for monbu scholarships' student is 120k yen/month, holy shit.

>>149303557
Was she a key animator or an inbetweener or what? I imagine there would be a pretty big difference in salary.

>>149304214
So 600 euro for saving/fun ? Yup that's pretty good if boarding include food.

>>149303557
>animator shill

>>149304410
It's 100,000 you nigger, not 1,000

>>149304432
She's inbetweener, animator is about 150-200k average.

>>149304464
>shill
What did he mean by this?

>>149303557
So that is why Shirobo is so good.
Animator poured their rage and frustation, sublimed it into art.

>>149304483
hey our dollar isn't that bad. dont bully.

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>>149304432
here's the tweener invoice

>>149304483
>>149304410
oh fuck never mind. I meant $8 to $10 per hour every 2 weeks is roughly 100K yen.

>>149304520
Oh god, they literally work for free

>>149303557
>>149304406
>>149303609
No, only if you're still inbetweener after 3 years, PA Works will ask you 6k yen per month.
For comparison, Production IG will ask you 10k yen for that.

But it doesn't matter, because this basically they're telling you "leave the anime industry already when you still young".

>>149304520
how does this to compare to a job at 7-11 or something

>>149304520
>>149304546
Both are from same person though, she's inbetweener.

>>149304573
Most animators do have part-time jobs if they have time.

Still, I don't see why would anyone want to be an animator, it's a garbage job. Just study ANYTHING and get a job, even fixing PCs gets you more than that

>>149304554
So it's a fee for working with them for so long.

>>149303557
Doesnt seems that bad honestly.

67k a month, after living expenses, including housing, food and transport.

then again, paying for the working space seems pretty retarded.

We don't know how many hours she worked per day.

We don't know how good/dysmal were the living conditions for those expenses

We don't know if the "bento"expenses covered a meal every day or was just a one time charge.

Frankly we can't say shit about this

>>149304520
>>149304573
>15 hundred yen per month
That's "less than average allowance" tier

>>149304603
Fee for working so long but still don't have good enough skill to pass the animator test.

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So Bahi was right all along. Things need to change.

>>149304613
>then again, paying for the working space seems pretty retarded.
About this, see
>>149304554
They only ask them for that if after 3 years they still can't become animator.

>>149304595
Yeah. I looked it up properly. It's their most profitable and least profitable months as an animator.

>>149304645
Key animator and an inbetweener are way different, and both pictures are from inbetweener.

>retired

So how many years experience are we talking here

>>149304573
Last time I saw a McDonald's part time recruiting ad in Tokyo, they're giving workers about 900-1000 Yen/hour plus transportation subsidy

>>149304671
And? Asking them to pay for a desk is still fucking stupid

>>149304602
>why would anyone want to do what they want to do

>>149304701
She's inbetweener(動画), animator(原画) normally can get 150-200k average.

>>149304419
No.
But she says she worked 40 consecutive days.

>>149304762
>no breaks even on Sundays
Harsh. I wonder if KyoAni staff face similar conditions when it's crunch time.

>>149304554
This.
Furthermore, she's not an employee, she's a freelance renting her workspace

>ぼくたちは！社員でもないのに会社に机をお借りして仕事を頂いている！

For the first 3 years they let you work there for free while giving you work on their shows, if you can't pass the genga test by them they start charging you 6,000 yen a month out of whatever you earn for use of the space.

>>149304738
Because they're simply ask you to leave the anime industry.
Inbetweener is a job that normally even Korean or Chinese can do well, recruit inbetweener in Japan simply means they want you have good enough to become animator as soon as possible, if that person takes long time and still can't have good enough skill, that means he/she just wasting their time.

>>149303557
>>149304214
>67k yen/month
>eating bento food from konbini
TOP LEL
You can't even pay for a single LDK 15m^2 apartment in tokyo with that. When I was working in Tokyo, an apartment cost like 100k yen to rent and my salary was about 600k. Train ride was about 120yen 1-way, so I decided to bike to work.
Unless these guys make money off selling doujin at comiket as one of those wall circle, I really don't see how passion can keep them going.

>no balls to say you dont have the skill for animator
>be considerate/passive aggresive ask them to pay 6k to use desk while trying
>person either went into an animator or go something else/retire
Not sure if considerate. Where is the original article? I want to use my google translate skills.

Should have become a seiyuu instead.

>>149304805
>genga test
What's that?

>>149304819
Are you stupid? Living expenses are included in her check and provided by the company.

>>149304790
Nope. Ishidate even said he was told to leave when he wanted to work on sunday for Nichijou. But he's a board of directors member so I don't know about their average animator.

>>149304833
http://otakomu.jp/archives/447258.html

>>149304790
Yamada never worked OT in her life

And this is why PA will never be in the same tier as GodAni.

Nice third world salaries. Jumping in front of a train doesn't seem like a bad idea after all.

>>149304848
Going by the thread, I'm assuming that's the test to become an actual animator.

>>149304849
But she had to pay to use the desk I say as I imply that is where she was living

>>149304848
Key animator test. If you pass they start letting you do key animation work. Most serious studios do this. Some people will pass it in less than 6 months.
If you want to do key but not put the effort to get better, you can go to any number of subcontract studios that will let you start straight as key.

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>>149304899
While Kyoani is pretty good at this, they also facing same problem like many other studios.

Why didn't she just draw on the floor?

>>149304951
See >>149304805
>>149304812

>>149304976
What does it say?

>>149304976
Translate or fuck off, stop bragging about knowing japanese fag

>>149304871
Thanks man, google translate just made it worse.

>>149304849
The only reason she is not going into the negative is by eating half price bento food after 7pm.
Also god know where is staying. I am not sure where PA works office is but if it is anywhere near the nakano area that was in Shirobako, to get a place for 15k/month I am sure she is commuting at least 2hours a day to work.

>>149304995
Frodo, please.

>>149305000
Go fuck yourself, piece of shit.

>>149304999
Blue is revenue, orange is profits

Think profits is down last year cause they invested in building a new studio

>>149305042
labor of love or masochist

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It's not like there aren't cheaper alternatives if 6000/month for a fancy desk sounds like too much.

>>149304976
Dem Chuuni and Free money.

>>149305000
Read the thread>>149304381

>>149305042
If she's at the PA Works head office then she should be living around Toyama which isn't in Tokyo.

>>149305042
>Ben-To with half-dead animators instead of high-schoolers
I'd watch it.

>>149305078
Those are some slim profit margins, I hope that's already the net profit. How do they even afford to invest back into the company like that?

>>149303557
>バス定期
>2500
安っ！

>>149304871
She sure is butthurt.

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>>149304976
They have Koe no Katachi for 2016.
Literally the only studio saving anime considering how the rest of the industry treat their staff.

>>149303557
ってか明細に机代は入ってねぇじゃん

>>149304805
I see, so inbetweener is basically the entry level or apprentice's job?

Do you need any education to become an inbetweener or can you start doing that straight out of middle school?

How does your conscience allow you to consume entertainment produced by slaves, /a/?

>>149305265
Why do KyoAni fags need to come into every thread with their garbage?

Can't you stop for a fucking minute with your garbage baits?

>>149305290
How are you able to use any Chinese made product then?

>>149305290
You're posting from a computer assembled by slaves.

>>149305290
I drive my car with blood oil. Watching slave made anime isn't that hard.

>>149305201
Should be net profits yeah. They had to buy the plot and construct the new studio

>>149305284
You don't need a degree to prove that you can draw. See New Game.

>>149303871
Income tax
Lunch
Housing
Housing utilities
Bus fare

>>149305290
It's a fun job too many people want to do. I feel as bad for them as for psychology graduates

>>149305290
I literally do not care about non whites

>>149305331
>buying a prebuilt

Do they not have minimum wage there? that's actually comparable to my wage in Bulgaria

>>149305434
Japan's work ethics are genuine dog shit. I don't think they even have unions.

And complaining about slavery gets you labeled as a "coward" that can't keep up.

There's a reason the japanese cold kills them, because they don't ever rest or anything.

>>149305434
read the thread. 67k are not the net salary, living expenses are already substracted here.

>>149305430
>>>/pol/

>>149304859
2D Kyoani.
CG Polygon Pictures

They're very good about treating their workers.

>600 dollars a month
>for working full day in a hell sweatshop where you just draw shitty animoo till your fingers bleed

Yeah, japan is great am i right?

And here I am making $6k a month by teaching english in a uni.
5 hours a day, 4 days a week.

I mean, why don't animators just kill themselves?

>>149305507
That doesn't change anything.

And that was just a particularly high month, she earns this >>149304520 too

>>149305557
That was her first month of real work after just finishing the training.

>>149305548
>6k
>5 hours a day, 4 days a week.
teaching really makes that much? nice

>>149305284
That's how it's treated in general.
Studios will regularly openly recruit people (again, serious studios will require you to bring a portfolio to show you can draw a little).
However, there are people that career as inbetweeners. Recently there was some buzz over Shinkai's studio taking in two ex-ghibli inbetweeners with 20+ years of experience when other studios didn't have the vision to realize how skilled the two are.
Increasingly veterans are complaing about short douga experience periods creating animators that don't understand how to draw keys that look good after being traced, how to tell the inbetweener what they want, etc.

>>149303557
all that starving hardwork only to see you work pirated by random people on http://www.nyaa.se/
LOL what a life

>>149305548
Don't you need to do research and write papers outside of your teaching obligation though?

Studios should ask for patreon for entry level animators

>>149305484
we got unions of course
but they are becoming memes after bubble collapse and the most serious problem is contract employees, those who can be fired w/o any legal issue after few years

fantastic system for jews but it's killing our society including birth rates

While PA Works is not very good about payment, most studios are worst than this.
Like GoHands is only paid inbetweener half of what PA Works paid.
https://twitter.com/tunoharu0628/status/793065647617875968

>>149303557
>67k yen a month.

wow that's sad

might as well work at mcdonalds

>>149305688
Why don't you just leave the country anon, or kill yourself

>>149305628
If you're a professor in Korea, that is.

>>149305681
Yes, it's a bit tedious but it doesn't take much.
Defending work is harder.
But on the plus side I get free trips to conventions and programs.

This summer I went for 3 months to Germany, England, Scotland, and had a nice bike ride from Switzerland to France.
For free.

it's pretty nice.

>>149304663
back in the 80s until the early 90s, the economic bubble was still intact, that's why all the OVA from that decade was so unreal.

Now i wonder A-1 animators need how much hours to work per month.

>>149305768
thank you but i am a neet who lives with parents bux

>>149303557
>100K

100,000 yen a month in a first world country!? Holy shit no wonder people rather be NEET than working. Such slavery, where is the fucking union?

Can you imagine busting your ass your whole life to finally start working into an industry only to get paid bread crumbs for slaving over art that gets pirated by hundreds of thousands of gaijin white piggus?

Don't follow your dreams, kids. Follow the job market.

>>149305805
Most of those OVA flopped hard though until EVA saved late night anime

>>149304951
>"haha she can't afford the tokyo rent"
>the company paid her living expenses, dumbass
>"b-but she had to pay for the desk WAAAAAAA"

>>149305856
union is a communist idea, Japan orders Yakuza to minimize/kill the burakumin and anyone with communist leaning

>>149304976
>also facing same problem like many other studios.
the problem of making money?

>he fell for the Tokyo meme

https://vimeo.com/121705174

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>>149304663
You know, Japanese are beta nowadays, they don't have balls to do that.
Maybe they should hire more Gaijins like Polygon Pictures.
http://www.ppi.co.jp/about/studio/

>>149305914
Unions are not communist at all

>>149305870
Western piracy doesn't make a huge dent, a couple thousand of domestic BD sales would eclipse millions of westerners pirating.

>>149305967
>all those nu-males and beta orbiters
no thanks

>>149305974
This is polchan. Anything along the lines of employee rights is communism.

>>149305967
Polygon have actually great work ethics, they don't overwork their animators or pay them pennies.

>>149304663
>what is churn and burn

Especially in the anime production industry where new, young prospects get hired all the time, it's not happening.

>>149306003
that is what your average western anime fan looks like, what more do you expect?
if you dont believe me, just go look at a few anime fan pages on facebook.

>>149305290
Humanity is tainted with blood already, so why care? If I don't watch animu, other people still watch anyway.

>>149305856
Willing market
Willing employees

They can quit but there are tons of people taking their place. Too many failed and talentless artists that can only end up drawing inbetweens

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>>149305967
>CG only studio
delete this

>>149305967
If they get paid so well why does Ajin look like shit?

>>149306000
BD sale is declining rapidly

There's a reason why 3D and flash tweening have completely taken over american and european animation scenes. Traditional animation requires a lot of work so no wonder they're being paid slave wages.

>>149306000
BD sales are going DOWN.

Anime sales were lower than ever but got saved by chinese streaming sites, that even increased profit over last year.

>>149306130
I think you answered your own question.

>>149306130
Seeing their works i assume the publisher didn't give them a lot budget for Ajin.
http://www.ppi.co.jp/works/

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>>149306258

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>>149305000
>Normally anywhere
>Can someone please translate this?

>/a/
>Translate or fuck off

See, the problem here is Jap animators take their workers rights for granted. Their union isn't doing anything to demand better working conditions and pay.

>>149304663
This is not Bahi though.

>>149305548
You sure corrected my record, Corean
Maybe they like their work and don't mind the bad living conditions –it's not that different from a NEET shitposter's life, if you think about it

>>149306309
Your point?

>>149305430
My nigga

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So far I've seen only bad animators complain about their salary.


Have you ever seen a top tier animator like Kameda complain?

Get gud or leave the industry.

No wonder they get paid like shit if they have no skills.

>>149306115
I wonder Flip Flappers killed how many animators and inbetweeners?

>>149306310
Is this your first day here?

>>149306405
BD sales aren't really that important and the overseas market did shrink compared to a decade ago.

>>149306401
Why are you racist for no reason?

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She probably used it as a bed so it's normal.

Can't draw
Has no degree
can't even animate

still doing inbetweens after 5 years

complains about the slave salary.


Why am I not surprised,

>>149306526
I told you this year and 2015, you posted 2014.

>>149306540
THIS

She is probably sleeping at the studio.
You can't just live somewhere for free.

>>149306527
>why are you ray ciss
You have to go back, Redd!t

>>149306455
Pay handsomely for some superstars and treat the others dogshit. Every fucking industry.

she's in inbetween animator ffs, you're acting like she actually does serious work

>>149306401
There is a huge difference between working all day and fapping all day

>>149306316
This. Japan is too anti-socialist.

>>149306638
>implying animators don't work and fap at the same time

>>149306633
okay, whatever you say man

>inbetweener

And nothing of value was lost.

>>149306003
You're a nu-male yourself, mate. Only you don't work.

>>149306600
Or be like Pixar and only hire the best and not the autistic faggots that live with their parents.

>>149305290
I don't pay for it anyways.

>>149306551
women are useless, what else is new

>>149306670
Hot.
Is she using table to masturbate

>>149304453
>fun
>japan
people work 15 hours per day

>friend makes more money stocking fruit at a shitty grocery store
JUST

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Why do animator's always complain on social networks instead of actually talking to their executives about their problems?

They have tried this before and it never worked.

>>149306592
does anyone else see this japanese man telling me to go to reddit in broken english? is this some kind of satire?

>>149306633
If you work more than a burger flipper and still get payed less something's wrong with the industry you're working in. Japan is supposed i

>>149306838
Because they only want to relieve stress, they can still endure

>>149306650
More like Japanese Animators are too passive and masochistic and love being fucked in the ass by the top 1%. They love their kawaii lewd drawings too much that they forget their rights and don't assert them. Let's be honest here, all they need to do is to demand it or go on strike and it will be given to them.

>>149306834
Enjoy your herniated spine, no social interactions and muscle ache working for peanuts and wasting your life away.

>>149306851
Reddit pls.

>>149306838
Strikes are illegal in japan.
You can't really do much, there are a ton of japanese and non-japanese animators on the market, for each complain they could just hire a korean.

>>149306838
because they have autism.

>>149306882
This, no struggle, no gain

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>>149306891
They don't have to strike.
Just go ask your fucking boss why your salary is shit.

>>149306851
You have to go back

>>149306891
Illegal? Can this anon explain? This is not Middle East you know

>>149306882
Why do you namefag?

>>149306838
If you complain you will immediately be replaced by another faggot waiting at the door.

>>149304214
Wcdonald's pays better than that in Wapan.

>>149306955
He must go back, to Reddit! wwwwwwwwww

>>149306966
He's talking shit.

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Wait so she lives at the studio.

Japanese animation studios are also homeless shelters as long as you do inbetweens?

>>149304663
>>149305805
You can say the same for any corporation that hires poo in the loos.

>>149307049
100000 yen is so abysmal that you can't rent an apartment in Tokyo

>>149306953
Dirty ugly looking plaid shirt on dirty ugly looking jap. No one looks good in that hipster shit, but come on.

At least the office ladies look cute most of the time and not like some dirty lumberjack/hobo. The men make more money, they should spend a little of it on clothing not from a trashcan.

>>149306885
>working for peanuts
More peanuts than you.

>>149305778
>If you're a professor in Korea, that is.
Dayumm

>>149306882
>%1 meme
>has no clue that Japanese wage distribution is far more equitable than the U.S.
This is why people think you're stupid.

>>149307029
You're trying too hard Reddit. No upboats here

at least they are all japanese. not white. when white person are worker for studios then anime will become shit for everyone.

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ANIME WAS A MISTAKE!
ANNO AND MIYAZAKI WERE RIGHT

ANIME NEEDS TO DIE!


THE WORLD IS A SHITHOLE!
AND ANIME IS PART OF IT!

END THE SUFFERING !

JESUS WILL COME BACK AND SAVE ANIME!

>>149307308
SALVATION!!! THE SONG OF DESTRUCTION WHEN!?!?

>>149307228
>>149305967
?

Having worked in an industry with similar labor economics to animation (too many workers because people like the work), I can tell you that the only thing that will change conditions is for workers to quit and for young children to stop wanting to become animators. Everyone who can must refuse to work for low wages.

In my field the supply of trained labor dried up after about 20 years of abuse by the industry. For two decades young men who would normally enter the industry were told by their elders to find another career. That it wasn't worth it anymore.

Now, in the last 2 years salaries have doubled and companies are offering 10-25k USD bonuses to attract employees. Some have even started training employees in house (15-30k USD in training expenses per worker). It's all supply and demand.

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Animators have autism
-Hideaki Anno

>>149307422
autists probably make really good low level animators/tweeners

If animators want a change they need to step up their sakuga game.

Of course FlipFlap animators get paid more than Haruchika fags.

my boss tried to charge me to use my own tools once
ONCE
sometimes you just need to act like paulie from goodfellas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XGAmPRxV48

>>149307049
Nah that's PA Works dorm room, and that's because it's a studio not in Tokyo so they have space to build it, if you work for anime studio that in Tokyo, welp, go find your room by yourself.

>>149307531
You use a pencil.
and paper

who the fuck will charge you for that, retard

>>149307586
i am a carpenter you dick

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>>149303748
>KUROBAKO
That show taught me everything I know

>>149307530
>implying there's any difference paid between sakuga and normal animation
Sakuga only means they will get more job because his/her animation is good.

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THE END IS NEAR
Anno was right

>>149307687
Is this real?

>>149307417
Academic field is just the same, too many young people, but no tenure place now.

>>149304286
>Most people earn half of that.
You do know how averages work, right?

>>149306882
This, I totally agree with you but sadly you are a namefag so I'm afraid I have to tell you to fuckoff.

>it's a /a/ thinks it knows about the animation industry episode

FUCK ANIME

I WOULD LIVE A BETTER LIFE IF I DIDN'T HAVE TO SIT ON MY ASS AND WATCH ANIME.

>>149307417
I can't say I feel any sympathy for these people complaining about low wages to be honest. Nobody forces them to go into the industry and everyone warns them about how difficult and low paid it is. Yet they still to take the jobs. To come back after you realize you are never going to make it and say you were exploited is just ridiculous. Those are conditions they were perfectly willing to accept when they thought they had a shot at their dream and they were never forced to accept the conditions at all.

>this thread
Mein Gott, the worst kind of cancer.

>>149308150
This anon must have a good salary

>>149308299
Nah these people are choosing to be animators, choosing those low wages. They could go get a normal desk job that pays a regular salary but they instead choose a job that pays awful and demands a lot for a shot at their dreams. The people who complain about being exploited in that industry they willingly chose to work in when it becomes clear they don't have what it takes to make it just come off as a bad case of sour grapes. When they still thought they had a shot they never would have complained and would have been happy for the opportunity to work for nothing to prove themselves.

>>149308435
>> choosing
As if anyone can choose, only the strong can choose, the slave never

>>149308250
Way better than the usual best girl and studio threads.

>>149308604
>t. poster complaining about cancer.

>>149308150
Oh for sure, I never wanted sympathy. I bitched about compensation back then because it's what everyone did, but I had enough education and understanding of economics to know that it was just the labor market at work. It took a few years of low wages before I decided the "fun" part of the job wasn't worth it anymore and left. Lots of others I know left a few years before and after too.

Daniel Tosh is kinda a fuckstick, but his bit on "money can't buy happiness? Well it can buy a Waverunner. Have you ever seen someone frown on a Waverunner?" is pretty fucking accurate.

>>149304736
850 yen is the starting salary. Then they increase it based on performance. Very competent employees have been known to increase their wages 100 yen in one month.

>>149308573
>a bunch of idiots who don't know anything about the industry talk about it
Barely better than stalker threads. There. I said it.

/a/ - Industry Specialists

>>149308746
Do you know how many hours they typically get per week/month/year?

>>149308823
Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable /ai/ - anime industry specialists.

>>149308759
hardly, why does /a/ think that animators are supposed to make 6k figure CEO salaries?

They're doing menial labor, this girl does inbetween, thats like the lowest form of labor, they don't even do composition.

>>149308989
>why does /a/ think that animators are supposed to make 6k figure CEO salaries?

Because animators at disney, picar, dreamworks make 6k.

>>149309031
What's the salary of a pixar animator?

>>149309031
They have more talent so it's only fair.

If you give them more salary they just buy more toys.

>>149308838
Depends if you are a school attending part timer or a full time manager. Generally managers have to stay for most of the working hours, and when he is out there is a secondary manager to manage things. But I'd imagine its 8-12 hours for full time employees, and 4-6 hours for school part timers, with others being 6-8 hours.

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>>149309085
>They have more talent
If they have more talent why do americans hire people like Takashi Tori or Masaaki Yuasa to work on their CN shows?

pic related was made by a japanese animator.

>>149309138
If they get 40 hours a week, each 100 yen raise translates to 200,000 extra per year. I think I'd pick WcDonald's over animating.

>>149309206
>what is a guest animator

>>149309206
The average fat slave animator has more talent than the average nip slave animator.

>>149309206
cherrypicking Hiroyuki GOD Okiura.

Okiura is an exception, he is considered the god of animation, he is not your average Japanese animator.

>>149304286
>4K
>average salary in Poland
HA HA NO
Not even before taxes and insurance.

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>>149309275
>The average fat slave animator has more talent than the average nip slave animator.
Oh definitely. Look at those skills.

>>149309385
the sad part is that this guy probably earns a lot more than your S-Tier sakuga animator.

>>149309206
Because American 2D animators are trained in a completely different way where they emphasize a high number of frames per second and aren't trained in impact frames.

That's why shit like Avatar looks like everyone is ice-skating everywhere, they have no idea how to emphasize frames and slow the action at critical moments to give the feeling of impact.

They literally cannot animate as impressively as skilled Japanese animators even if they tried because a shitty animation style is ingrained in their training.

>>149309577
I thought Avatar was animated by Koreans.

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>>149304976
Recreated the chart in English

>>149309693
Now make it look not like shit.

>>149309693
Didn't they have another report that showed their 2016 data? I remember there was a thread months ago about it.

>>149307417
Relatively large supply of new workers willing to work for low wage is the only reason hand-drawn animation hasn't yet gone extinct in Japan like it did in the rest of the world. If for some reason it ever dries up the wages won't go much higher as it will damage the already pretty meager profits of the top brass. The industry would simply die and get replaced by 3DCG animation like in all other countries that don't have the luxury of cheap manual labor.

>>149309791
2016 isn't over yet

>>149309791
That one is already included in the chart. We had a thread about it in July.

http://desuarchive.org/a/thread/144184201/

>>149305042
She should be thankful she doesn't have to brawl to buy her discount bento.

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>>149309577
>that's why shit like Avatar


>emphasize a high number of frames per second and aren't trained in impact frames.
shut up with your bait
>I've never heard of Takeshi Honda or Hiroyuki Okiura

>I've never watched any Satoshi Kon movie.

just shut up if you have no argument.

>>149303557
That's like 680 dollars a month. The fuck? I pay more than that in rent.

>>149309031
>animators at disney, picar, dreamworks
Don't make traditional animation anymore, you idiot.

>>149307335
SOMWAN CAWRING YUUU

>>149309693
technically a good private business will have little net profit as it will and should invest its earnings back into itself.

Public companies are all about profit margins so they tend to focus on profits.

>>149310496
It isn't worth it anymore. Too much time and money is wasted on handdrawn stuff for too little profit.

>>149308759
This.

>$600/m

I'm sure theres some rich weeb out there who can collect all these unsatisfied animators and make a good team out of it.

>>149305290
From 10 years of experience, I'm very confident that the majority of 4chan is not exactly conscious of ethics or morality. Your question is akin to asking why white supremacists are so fucking ignorant and cold towards other human beings.

>>149305430
>buying a prebuilt
Riiight, only prebuitl computers are assembled by slaves. It's not like motherboards, VGAs, PSUs, computer monitors, etc., etc., aren't built by Chinese or Malayan slaves.

>>149303557
couldn't she just bring her own desk?

>>149304214
1000 a month seems a bit low but when you consider the fact that her rent money is only 145 USD, that makes sense. The cost of living must be quite low in Japland compared to the city lives of US

>>149311002
How do you think Durarara got a three cour second season?

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It seems like you'd work as an animator because it's your passion, not because you want to get rich.

>>149311372
See >>149311175

From the looks of it, the cost of living, atleast the rent seems to be roughly 1/5 - 1/10th the cost where I live.

>>149311445
Do you also rent a 3 m x 4 m apartment made out of cardboard?

>>149311721
Can't get anywhere with extreme assumptions.

What is worse, she got fired from PA due to this leak. Totally joke.

>>149311175
No almost same cost as US or even higher.

>>149304819
>You can't even pay for a single LDK 15m^2 apartment in tokyo

Good thing they're in Touyama then

>>149304214
Is that the actual translation for the expenses bit?
I don't really get what the OP is. Is it a salary receipt? It has stamp or seal of some sort in the bottom left hand so it doesn't look like some excel stuff put together by her.
I'm asking because if it's a receipt from the company, I don't get why they'd automatically deduct travel fares, food, etc., out of your fucking salary.

>>149311961
There are no condos in the US that cost anywhere close to $145/m. Not in any decent sized cities.

>>149303557
>Female animator
She made pocket money drawing things while his hardworking husband was probably doing some real work.
I don't see anything wrong here.

>>149311877
Finally, she can become rich.

>>149307855
Average doesn't equal median.

>>149309665
A korean studio called Dr Movie

>>149307855
Not him, but you're thinking of a median wage. An average in this case is the total salary of everyone divided by the amount of people. Now think of the people who have the highest salaries. 0 yen/month (i.e. no salary, too low to even qualify as someone getting a wage) is considerably closer 100k yen than the highest salary, which is easily millions upon millions. Few earn that much, but if you think of the scale, it actually has a considerable impact. In a group of 10 where 9 people earn 0 yen/month and 1 person earns 1 million yen/month, the average will be 100k. When measuring average salaries, it's always higher than what most people earn.

Just thought you should know this. You should be sceptical of statistics in general as it's easy to manipulate if you want to and easy to misinterpret if you don't pay too much attention.

>>149310719
It's interesting to look how 2 different cultures handle their problem with 2D animation

>western
>too little profit? abandon it and move to flash

>japanese
>too little profit? overwork our workers and pay as little as possible

I wonder who made the right choice in the end.

>>149312413
>An average in this case is the total salary of everyone divided by the amount of people.
That's not how you calculate average salaries

>>149309206
They actually did have a japanese animator work on an episode for Adventure Time,
It was some episode about the food chain or something

>>149303609
There are other jobs that do that, like hair salons.

>>149313056
except hair salons allow you build up a base of loyal customers.

>>149311877
>do work
>publicly complain about doing work
>get taken off work
Oh the humanity.

>>149306795
men are much worthless than women

>>149306221
The clock is probably now ticking for Japan.

We will be the last generation to see anime with hand-drawn tweens.

>>149313541
this is why animators are treated like shit, you know. Because no one can speak up even through the conditions are objectively awful. They just get a 'ganbare!' and have to grin and bear it.

>>149311961
>rent
>145 dollars a month

Jesus, I wish. You can rent a room for 600 at the absolute lowest where I live.

>>149308823
Well sure! The stalker threads and daily studio war posts are testament to that.

Forget economists, the studios should hire anons.

>>149309385
You realize that was basically the American equivalent of Crayon Shin-chan, right? No one watches it for the animation.

>>149313896
That's simple supply and demand. There are a lot of people that want to draw, and only so many uses for drawing. The company wouldn't have fired her if there wasn't someone else willing to jump into her position, even after what happened to her.

She was retarded anyway (as shown by the fact she was still inbetweening after so many years), and didn't even realize there were artists much worse-off than she was.

>>149309577
>Avatar
>2D

>>149314199
which is exactly why they should be unionized and get better working conditions.

Moreover 'Supply and demand' shouldn't be an excuse for a country with labor laws and other social protections. Maybe in ancapistan, sure.

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KyoAni wins once again.

>>149312542
It wouldn't have been a problem in America if Eisner hadn't been a fucktard and thought Atlantis and Treasure Planet had bombed because "muh Shrek/muh Pixar" and "audiences hate 2D nao" instead of thinking, "Hey, maybe Atlantis and Treasure Planet bombed because they were fucking stupid".

>>149314400
Atlantis and Treasure Planet were pretty good though
They just obviously weren't as popular with kids, weren't both of those rated PG-13? They definitely weren't as blatantly aimed at kids as Dreamworks and Pixar movies.

>>149312542
Western - Jew mindset
Japanese - Loyal Samurai mindset

>>149314365
By all means, if they want to organize and coordinate the price they want to offer their services, then there's nothing stopping them. Even if there are anti-union efforts in place, there is no way to stop people from privately deciding not to work for under a certain amount of money.

However, expecting someone to remain employed after attempting to publicly disparage (and, by extension, damage) their own employer is ridiculous.

>>149310665

that's not how net income calculation works though. purchasing new plots of land falls under capital expenditures which aren't deducted from revenue to arrive at net income.

even firms that only report using pro-forma policies would have a hard time justifying classifying capital exp as operating exp.

kyoani is just as profitable as any other animation studio.

>>149314489
I'm not even MGTOW. Just a healthy, sound minded human being who browses /pol/.

>>149314621
If your wages might damage your public image there is something horribly wrong with your company

>>149314261
>there's only 1 avatar title exist

>>149314723
You should've said Last Airbender then.

>>149314572
>japanese animators
>loyal samurai
>with that high turnover rate in the industry

Oh i'm laffin

>>149309577
They animated all their tweens by hand back in the '30s through the '50s. That's why the era is called the Golden Age of Western Animation (and that's where anime as we know it literally comes from).

>>149314884
The only loyal animators in this industry are KyoAni's

>>149314673
there isnt a single god damn sane person on /pol/. can confirm because ive stuck my dick in /pol/ girls 4 times from my uni

>>149314572
>Loyal samurai

See, that's why had a revolution 240 years ago (when Japan was still in national hikki mode).

>>149314910
It's easy to be loyal when you're working with the goddess Yamada

>>149314680
Or the ignorant general public are prone to overreacting and easily manipulated by drama. How much does the average person know about the animation industry and the context of that girl's payment? How much does an arbitrary salary number tell them, objectively, about how poorly or well they're being paid for their contribution?

If someone vandalizes the front of a store with spray paint, it will deter people no matter if the person who did the vandalization was correct or not.

>>149314910
Like Yamakan, Horiguchi and Utsumi right?

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>>149309577
>>149314892

I kinda agree with western animation not having weight and impact to it, it tends to look so floaty and linear, even back in the golden era this was an issue. The only real advantage western animation has over Japanese is the fluidity though that's not because of skill but budget.

Avatar was mostly made in Korea with some scenes in Japan as well, though. It definitely didn't suffer from this.

>>149314974
Vandalizing is a crime, telling others how much money you earn is not.

>>149315061
Funny that you can only name 3 after all these years, one of them being fired for sexually harassing co-workers. Meanwhile other studios rely on their workforce being 80% freelancers because they just don't have enough in-house staff.

>>149315166
What difference does being the victim of a crime or not make in this case?

>>149315248
In one case, damage is done (which is unrelated to what was written)
In the other case, depending on what was said, it could even be a praise and image boost for the company if it's known that they pay well.
The only possibly problematic thing here is a breach of contract.

>>149312213
>his
Female animator (male)

>>149315773
>trap animators

I wouldn't have not get any job done if i work there, ay ay.

>>149315567
The point of the example is the writing itself, however. Specifically, implications created by the writing. People will draw all sorts of conclusions regardless of content or creator, if things are left to their imagination. For the purpose of the example, vandalism could be replaced with any kind of visible, public, PR attack.

The same applies here. Even if she wasn't being accusatory, because of how politicized the subject matter is, creating unnecessary scrutiny on the subject could also be viewed as irresponsibility by the employee. Most employers will also have some generalized expectations placed upon the employee (IE "don't act in a way that gives the company a bad name") to invoke in cases like these as well.

>>149315237
Why does it matter if i can name only 3? Your saying that they're loyal is wrong. That's it.

>>149316227
The vast majority of KyoAni employees are loyal, happy?

>>149316324
I'll be happy once you've suck my cock.

>>149316201
>creating unnecessary scrutiny on the subject
>unnecessary scrutiny
>could also be viewed as irresponsibility by the employee.
And this is why America, Japan, China and a lot of Europe are all going to hell in the long run.

Okay, lets say animators suddenly receive a salary boost.

Will it actually eliminate QUALITY? Or will it separate actual hard working skilled animators from the scrubs who like to doodle from time to time?

>>149316613
isn't the actual reason of QUALITY not having enough time? though it might motivate some of them

>>149311877
People who aren't retarded just complain about their job to their friends in person.
Nobody cares if you call your boss a faggot while sitting on your friend's couch, because everyone does it.

Only retards complain about their job on social media where their employer can see it.

>>149312296
arent they the same people who did OPM? Seems kind of contradictory

>>149304214
Kek no. The average part-timer's salary is more than 2 million yen annually, based on current stats

She could have less demanding jobs at some random shoten or depaato and made three times the figure she made as an animator

>>149310110
thats how much she makes after rent and all expenses including food and travel, thats pretty fucking good if you ask me for someones job is basically scribble stick figures on a background

>>149303557
Who cares, animators aren't people. She should be happy she earned that much.

>>149311877
>she got fired from PA
shes a freelancer

>>149316536
Any scrutiny by people that aren't qualified and informed enough to comment objectively on the topic is unnecessary. The vast majority scrutiny from idiots on the internet falls into this category.

>>149315061
Yamakan got fired and Horiguchi has always been a freelancer

>>149303557
What a shit-tier industry.
I'm glad I don't pay anything for my animes.

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>>149316691
no amount of money will fix a fucked schedule, thats why you gotta organize your shit. Pouring in money at the last minute makes things WORSE because it becomes even more disorganized. Like episodes with 10 directors because they couldnt finish it on time.

>>149308838
http://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20160824/p2a/00m/0na/021000c

I used to make 500 yen/hour (+ free bike) as a paperboy

This is why I only support Kyoto "KyoAni" Animation

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>>149317058
>>149316691

dont forget

7 HAND-DRAWN YEARS

despite it looking beautiful overall, the final polish was rushed. This is just one scene, but they forgot to overlay the shadow layer at the back of the track, so the cars have the same lighting as they come out of the shadow as they did when they were in it.

>>149317254
man I need to rewatch Redline, that was some good shit

>>149307358
And their anime look like shit so...?

>>149304214
>67k after the expenses
>it's not so bad
That's depends, anon.

How much money does average japs make a month to live normally in Tokyo?

>>149317556
What does it matter when she doesn't live in or near Tokyo?

>>149317556
considering that "tokyo net cafe refugee" is a term that strictly refers to people who work in Tokyo, probably much less than she does after expenses

>>149303557
>female
How is that relevant? I want feminists to leave.

>>149309821
Well, 3DCG is the wave of the future.

>>149308014
Shhh.........
I am enjoying my laughter with others so don't spill the beans just yet.
It's fun watching idiots posting and believing bullshit.

>>149317722
Of course the daily expense will be a lot cheaper outside Tokyo.

>>149305177
Where do I Kickstart this?

>>149305265
Cool Kyou is a God, but honestly I rather take trigger and their policies on animation over Kyoani.

>>149305914
México was pretty much built on the idea of freedom of speech(Satire) and working unions. It's capitalist as fuck.

>>149316970
No.
Any kind of widespread attention for a unfair situation is desired, always, esp. when it comes to wages and workers' rights. It informs other workers across different companies that they are not alone or that their fellow colleague might be experiencing unfair exploitation. When it gets to the media, the public is informed so they can make their own choices with their wallets (or whatever form of detraction possible). Having the attention of the public is the first step for requesting some sort of mediation by government agencies or the parliamentary powers if needed.
Yes, it's usually for the better if it's some sort of well-documented journalism, but it's not a fucking requirement.
What you fail to realize with all that "hush hush" is that you are being functional to the interests of the companies, i.e., those who may or may not be exploiting their work force.

Keeping dirty secrets under the rag is Business management 101. So again, congrats on being functional to the slave drivers, dear slave.