Why is it that in Shounen they constantly push the value of hard

Honestly, this whole subplot feels stupid as fuck in Naruto. Ninjas aren't ninjas for sport, they're fucking ninjas to save lives and defend peace. Who cares if they use cyber ninja scrolls?

>>148997610
What the fuck this is such a trainwreck. I dropped this shit years ago but I never would've guesses it would fall this low.

>>148997610
>That image
What the fuck? How is that any different than using soldier pills?

>>148997610
Naruto is a trainwreck. Nothing else needs to be said.

>>148997610
Because they realise you cant ever beat genetics.
>>148997862
Those fruits are pieces of the same thing that Kaguya ate so eating them makes your god.

>>148997862
Soldier pills are the things Choji eats, right?
Those are temporary, but I suppose that would be literal doping which Naruto seems to be against
I think OP's image is a permanent thing.

fuck off narutards

>>148997610
new guy improved

>>148998011
It doesn't apply just to Naruto, but Shounen in general.
In Bleach, 15 year-old Ichigo masters his Bankai in 3 days and becomes more powerful than Captains that have been training for literally centuries. And then he gets even stronger thanks to Hollow bullshit and stuff.
In One Piece, 17 year-old Luffy despite being a rookie with a few months of experience defeats several Shichibukai, CP9 and big name pirates with years of experience. At least he trained non-stop for 2 years so that once he's in the New World it isn't as bullshit (even though the people in the New World have been training even longer).
And let's not even get started with Dragon Ball.

>>148998153
>What is Hunter x Hunter
Not even a HxHfag

Serious answer is that they basically all come from the cultural lens of japanese conservative thought and push the typical conservative/nationalist themes. This results in a weird schism where hard work and more importantly Willpower have to be the focus, but need to fall in line with age old concepts of hierarchy based on birthright/mandates of god/supernatural because-im-the-king-and-i-said-so things. Willpower needs to be enough to do anything, but there must always exist our chosen betters

short shitpost answer is that it's all garbage for people who have failed to grow up and moe is a more clever and healthy genre

>>148998153
>In One Piece, 17 year-old Luffy despite being a rookie with a few months of experience defeats several Shichibukai, CP9 and big name pirates with years of experience. At least he trained non-stop for 2 years so that once he's in the New World it isn't as bullshit (even though the people in the New World have been training even longer).

Luffy has been training with Garp since before the manga even started. Do you even read One Piece?
Not to mention Luffy can barely solo any of the Shichibukai he's beat besides Crocodile.

Hell Crocodile basically killed Luffy 3 times.
Gecko Moria practically BTFO Luffy and his entire crew several times.
Doffy fought Luffy after getting his insides turned into mush by Traf.

You don't even read One Piece so why are you even acting like you do

>"Yamato-damashii" is loosely translated into "the spirit/soul of Japan", and defined as anything and everything which makes Japan (and the Japanese) unique, distinct, and great.

>In traditional Japanese philosophy, Persistence (hard work, hope and spirit) was considered the most important and desirable of the three virtues. Resolve (moral rectitude and honor), the second most important, is also likely the first to appear, after the hero's "insight" finds something to fight for. Someone with strong amounts of both will probably find that they actually had a Talent all along that was easily overlooked. Talent (power and skill), however, is considered the least virtuous of the three (although certainly the most powerful). Despite Talent being the most functional of the three, Yamato-Damashii believes that everyone will Die or Fly in their Darkest Hour, so even a weak-but-persistent person will prove themselves useful in the long run.

>Rivals and antagonists, on the other hand, will be lacking in at least one virtue in comparison to the protagonist. Even an antagonist that starts out invincible will wind up defeated when this flaw is exposed. Sometimes, the Hero will reach their peak only via an Eleventh Hour Superpower against the Big Bad. note This victory is usually temporary, however, as after conquering that level of power, The Hero has studiously trained to master their abilities, only to find that there is a much wider range of techniques to learn, and thus they must lead the "clan" to ever-higher horizons.

>>148997786

Yet you are posting a naruto thread. Cu next month when the new chapter drops anon.

>>148998294
>>148998332
Doesn't Western culture, especially America, also promote the idea of hard work? That you are responsible for your own succes and if you just try hard enough to achieve your goals or dreams you can do it?

>>148998330
Here it comes the wanpiss defence force once again.
OP is shit.

>>148997610
Okay so the backstory behind these guys is that they're alien gods who plant the tree from that one Dragon Ball movie and eat them to stay immortal. The same tree gave birth to the tailed beasts. How should they, Naruto and Sasuke, have been a problem to handle supposedly these guys have eaten the equivalent of a 10 tailed beast many times over.

>>148998497
(You)

>>148998067
I knew he would. Even Kishi's art was bad at first, but practise makes on, if not perfect then at least, better.

>>148997610
>>148998153
>In Bleach, 15 year-old Ichigo masters his Bankai in 3 days and becomes more powerful than Captains that have been training for literally centuries. And then he gets even stronger thanks to Hollow bullshit and stuff.

You're projecting Naruto's supposed values onto a manga with a completely different set of values. You're entire argument literally only applies to Naruto because Kishimoto can't write for shit and blatantly ripped off HxH.

>>148998584
Kishis art got worse

>>148998652
His entire argument is just bad because he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Even the part about Dragon Ball is retarded. All Goku ever does is train and him being a saiyan is really the only argument he has. Which doesn't even matter since until Saiyan Saga Goku basically clutched all his fights out like any other human
Same thing with OP because Luffy literally never solos baddies and he's been training since he was a child with Garp
And if I read Bleach I could probably find some way to call him retarded too.

>>148998510
Because they don't eat the raw fruit like Kaguya did probs because that drives people crazy, they process it into pills that give a temporary boost.

>>148998495
Our classes are more subtle.

>>148998287
Adult Gon was so fucking stupid.

>>148997862
Because unlike soldier pills, without Red Earth those guys would be unable to do anything. Same reason having Boruto's wrist thing can let any smuck use S rank moves but that doesn't make them a ninja any more than giving a child an AK makes them a solider.

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>>148999116

>>148998812
Eh, I think he just got lazy and stremlined it.

>>148998834

The difference with Bleach is that Ichigo is pretty bullshit due to sudden power-ups from his Hollow; rarely is he out-thinking his opponent. He's just a very fast hammer with a convoluted family tree of Hollow, Shinigami and Quincy, and Human/Fullbringer. His deck is stacked.

The other Captains should be and, in some cases, -are- stronger than he is, with reality-warping gimmicks that would probably fuck Ichigo over hard. But whenever he's faced with shit like that, he usually gets saved by allies who counter those gimmicks and he's given the task of pursuing the arc's current big bad.

Bleach is full of (entertaining and maddening) bullshit and I'm not actually defending it, but I think he's kinda wrong in comparing Naruto to it in that manner.

>>148999116
>Just run faster Barry

>>148999075
That's like saying that without Akamaru, Kiba would be unable to do anything. Or that without his bugs Shino can't do anything.

>>148998834
>>148998330
About Luffy being "trained" by Garp since he was a child
>Said "training" consisted of beating the crap out of him and throwing him into the jungle and making him fly away on balloons
>Never taught him Haki
>Never taught him Rokushiki
>No actual combat training period
>Garp was rarely even on the island most of the time since he was too busy working, letting Luffy be raised by bandits and barmaids
>The results of Luffy's "training" was him struggling against East Blue fodder and needing to get stronger on his own

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvY6YQH9kE4

>>148999388
Kiba and Shino can do stuff without their pets, Kiba knows shadow clones and in Shino's case he can't really be separated from his bugs. But take away that guy's pills and he's powerless. That guy's main attack is to absorb other people attacks and make it bigger because he doesn't know how to do anything himself.

>>148998153
In Dragon Ball the only one who gets free updates is Gohan. Goku and Vegeta live to train only. They get powerups to be able to fight against new enemies, but they are only so powerful because of how much they dedicate themselves to training.
And just because it happens in 2 popular Shounens (because apparently it's not the case for OP; I don't read it, but other Anon already explained it) doesn't mean that it happens with "Shounen in general".

>>148997610
BAD
WRITING

>>148997610
GUY SENSEI AND ROCK LEE AND THE EIGHT GATES WOULD LIKE A WORD WITH YOU

>>148999627
What about Goten and Trunks?

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>Marathon through 450 episodes of Shitpudding over the course of 3 weeks
>It's all pretty okay until suddenly over the course of like 30 episodes (excluding filler) all the main characters turn into gods and the Tobi > Madara > Whats his crushed face > Madara > God thing > Madara > the other god thing > Madara > The female god thing fight scene goes on for a straight hundred episodes.

I don't really regret it, the only thing that's regretful are the people who waited for YEARS to see that damn arc animated.
I did laugh at the casual "Yeah, sorry." scene and how they just brushed over years and years of murder and genocide because they wanted to keep a familiar face in the series for money.

>>148997610
This whole plot point was stupid in this arc even by Naruto standards. It's what made me unable to enjoy the Baruto movie. If he was mad because he was violating the rules of the exam that would be one thing but to be angry at him for "doping" was retarded. What's the difference between that and using a ninja scroll with prewritten jutus? Is Tenten a cheater for not having all of her weapons up her ass?

>>148999679
Rock Lee? The guy that only won one fight in the entire series (two if you count him beating his own clone) and despite training way harder than pretty much everyone is nowhere near Naruto, Sasuke or even Sakura's level?

>>148999707
You wasted hours upon hours watching garbage when you could have been watching something else, mastering a skill or learning something new. Who's the real loser here? Hell, you could have read the manga which would have saved you days worths of time.

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>>148999911

>Sakura is canonically physically stronger than Rock Lee

>>148999934
Because i'm a worthless piece of human garbage.

>>149000055
Checked. Sure, but even garbage men have a place in this world anon. You're wasting your garbage potential. Think of how many jerking off sessions you missed? Better anime on your backlog? I guess it's better than shitposting. But not by much.

>>148999972
So? Lee's and Gai's thing has always been both speed and strength.

>>148998153
Even though Ichigo gets strong from his various power ups, it's only enough to fight on equal footing with the big bad until he gets demolished.

>>148999972
no she isn't if lee open the 8th gate should be on madara level just like how guy was

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>>148999972
Kishi had to make her relevant during the Kaguya battle somehow.

>>148998330
>Doffy fought Luffy after getting his insides turned into mush by Traf.
And when you go into the OP general they will say that Doffy didnt fight with any handicap. They will claim that it was a fair 1v1, not a 1vIsland with Doflamingo suffering from AIDS while basically fighting an entire nation.

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>>149000988
Those threads are pure cancer, especially with the shipping faggotry constantly going on in there. I stay out of them for the most part.

>>149000943
I refuse to believe that she didn't get dicked while Sasuke left her for years without any contact.

>>148997610
>Shonen is still being called a genre

>>149000853
If Lee opened the 8th gate he would fucking die/never ever fight again, so that's irrelevant. Nobody would win.

>>148998153
>Bleach
The Bankai training only allowed him to not end up as a mess of red on the ground like Renji. He still struggled with Byakuya to the point where his hollow had to step in and did much more damage to him than Ichigo himself.

The three day training was also something Urahara came up with himself and was said that was very dangerous because it wasn't the normal way of getting your Bankai.

Same with the Hollow Mask. He struggled with Grimjow and nearly died multiple times against Ulquiorra with it.

The Final Getsuga didn't even really work against Aizen and his true Bankai barely did anything against Yhwach.

>One Piece
Luffy is rubber so he can take a lot of blunt hits easier than most people. A lot of his attacks have extra power since he can stretch his limbs before striking as well.

He beat Crocodile because of the whole water being his weakness deal and even then he only beat him on the 3rd try.

Enel was because he was rubber, that was mainly it.

He couldn't do shit against Aokiji.
He barely won against Lucci due to Ussop yelling at him to get back up. Also due to him developing a technique that would have killed him if he wasn't rubber and still shortened his lifespan.
Moria was a group effort and not having shadows allowed them to fight a lot longer than they normally could have.
He couldn't do a thing against Kuma, only got through Impel down thanks to various other pirates, and mostly spent his time running towards Ace at Marineford.

Dofflamingo was already damaged due to other events before fighting Luffy. Law had done his fair share of damage before luffy broke out Gear 4th.

>Dragon Ball

Gohan is the only person this could really fall under. Saiyans get power boosts from fits of rage in general but Gohan benefited from it the most. Especially with Super Saiyan 2. Ultimate Gohan was just a result of him sitting there while Old Kai worked his magic.

Everyone else trained their asses off. Especially Goku and Vegeta

>>148997610
>doping
>niggastream

>>148997610
Naruto abandoned the hard work theme in shippuuden.

It showing back up now is stupid.

>>148998330
Kuma also solo'd the entire straw hat crew.

The series makes a point of essentially saying that they were lucky they got as far as they did without getting killed.

>>148998153
Bleach and One Piece and Dragon Ball never claimed to have hard work as a theme. They don't have characters extolling the value of hard work like Naruto and Lee do.

>>149003077
>I need to train to get stronger and protect my friends
>Please train me!
>You've grown so much
>I will surpass you!
>I've been training all this time so I could defeat you!
>Time for more training
Are these themes not present in all Action Shounen? Naruto just makes it more blatant.

>>148998067
Yeah, not sauce doesn't look so retarded

>>149003294
Read the OP again. Training is an element in many action manga of the Shounen demographic but only Naruto tries to make the point that hard work can beat natural talent, and then shit all over it by giving the MC several broken-tier abilities and power-ups.

>>148999075
>any more than giving a child an AK makes them a solider
But that's exactly how child soldiers are made. That and a lot of trauma. Also drugs.

>>148997714
Funny enough in early Naruto (up to an including the first Chunnin exams) this technology would have just been seen as one village's advantage. Sort of like the sound ninjas who used all that equipment.

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>>148997610

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>>148998584
>Even Kishi's art was bad at first,
Hell to the fuck no his art was rough but had a great style to it back then but as it went on it became less and less detailed and a lot more rushed. This new guy is just trying to ape Kishi's current style with mixed to bad results he's technically gotten better but his faces still look like shit.

>>149003294
Yeah, but training is not the same as having hard work as a theme. Ichigo trained on and off throughout the entire manga, but he specifically was trained with shortcuts and risky experimental measures because he didn't have time to do things the natural way. Luffy has only trained once so far and has no plans to do so again because he likes winging it and fighting on the fly. Goku was always a genius, every master he ever had says as much plus the original series had it so that Gohan, purely because of his genetics, always had better potential than anyone else.

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>>149007080
>tfw you're reminded of the days where Naruto, Bleach, and OP all had charismatic and unique art
At least OP still sort of has it despite cramming 4 times as many panels per page.

>>148999707
No one was waiting years to see that arc animated what you are talking about. The fanbase started hating on making fun of naruto once that arc got started in the manga. What everyone wanted to see was the last fight between naruto vs sasuke which they delivered so its all good. No need to feel some type of way.

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>>148997911
i think training is better

>>148998153
Only three fucking people in all of DBZ get a full on pass for being genetically superior to everyone.

Gohan, Frieza, Uub.
That's it.

Even Vegeta a supposed genetically elite saiyan got his shit slapped by a guy who would, in his culture, be considered a particularly slow asthmatic 98 pound weakling.

Hard work, training, and getting stronger to face shit is like 90% of what sold DBZ in the fucking first place. Which is why the new series is mostly shitting the bed...

>>148998153
Nanatsu no Taizai is an exception. It doesn't push the "hard work" message at all, the characters started out strong and unmatched.

When they do power up, there's always an extremely competent explanation and it's always relevant to the plot, story and development of the character.

the first 1/3 of DB was son goku getting upgrade after upgrade whenever he hit a wall

>>148997610

Only reading that garbage to see Sarada become Hokage. Don't really care about Naruto's spawn or his edgy adventure as Sasuke's pet.

>>148997862
The Soldier Pills just burn the user's body fat to convert into chakra, it does nothing beyond that.

>>148999581
Luffy and Ace fought wild beasts regularly, raided the city, most likely fought other bandits, and when Garp showed up, he trained them. Yeah all he did was beat the crap out of them, but that gave Luffy real combat experience, teaching him how to keep up with stronger and faster enemies, as well as all the other training giving Luffy monstrous durability, which is majorly how he's survived all his fights.

Read Eyeshield 21, the only thing the MC has going for him is he can run really fast and from there he develops from a cowardly gopher for thugs to a hardened American football player who will stand up against the scariest players around to win

>>148998153
>In One Piece, 17 year-old Luffy despite being a rookie with a few months of experience defeats several Shichibukai,

He trained with the strongest marine to ever live since birth, look at fucking Coby who trained with Garp for like a few years. He lost to Crocodile like twice before beating him. Shichibukai are also not equal in power, hell Buggy is part of them and Doflamingo blackmailed his way to become one. Gekko Moriah basically fucked himself, it took a team effort to work his ass but he ended up making Luffy much stronger by placing shadows into him.

>CP9

That entire arc relied on an assload of luck. But i'll give you it, Luffy collapsed in the fight too, not to mention the stakes for that arc were so fucking high it outright meant them winning would be nothing short of a miracle.

>big name pirates with years of experience.

Who?

>>148998812
I thought that was one of Kishi's assistants who was drawing the manga now?

>>148997610
The problem I have with this page is that Choji, and Kiba both use "food pills" for their techniques. Isn't that doping?

>>148997610
This is mostly a Naruto problem, but it's still true for all battle shounen, and yes, it's fucking painful.

It's pretty simple to understand why. Kids who are reading these manga probably feel like they're losers. If they've been trying hard, which they probably haven't if they're reading comic books, then they've probably been met mostly with failure. The idea that they're secretly destined to end up the greatest person in the world, even though nothing up to this point has pointed to it, is the thing that'd make them the most happy. "You suck now, but right around the corner is success! Just work at it a little harder and you'll find out you're secretly Jesus! And your father isn't a boring salaryman who doesn't care about you, he actually cares about you a lot but he's too busy being a goddamn superhero to take care of you. He's super awesome and he's passed that awesomeness down to you!"

>>148997610
I'm guessing that many of the current Shonen drew inspiration from Goku's adventures in Dragonball and then applied it to their own works, even model their characters after the big lug.

>>148997610
This is only a Reddit Academia and Nardo problem. Don't drag other series down with them.

>>148998153
Besides what everybody else replied to you for, when has One Piece ever stressed the hard work thing?

If anything, One Piece's theme is the prime example of a bunch of dudes just "winging it"

>>149002930

They get helped a lot more as the series progresses as well. Kuma not being there to kill them for one (just send em into water, RIP). One piece has other issues, namely characters who've been established to have a power set that can pierce the body do not do so during battle (put holes in heads, everyone but marco and the odd logia who anticipate this move dies), drown people more/sink ships before they reach land and swordsmen should cleave people (or crowds) in half with ease given the high end can cut steel/buildings with ease.

The series is pure fucking contrivance in these aspects, the powers, lack of going straight for the kill make fights more about the outcome (or just the spectacle), than the logic of the battle/experience of characters.

Luffy was at least strong enough to wail on Croc/Enel during EB, even then because plot contrivances croc never cuts Luffy's throat ending the fight he clearly won.

Moria was teamed or that leaves Lucci, but it was again a contrivance he didn't kill Luffy at W7, then comes back to have a brawler determination fight.

One piece was never about great realistic (in terms of actions, finishing off the opponent) battles, but the look. If anything he did have that 'hard work' backstory of endlessly fighting things as a child and in OPland, this builds strength. It's his ego/arrogance that has given him the special powers. And that's a personality trait from his childhood. We're also shown other characters with ego = power.

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>>148999264

>>149008882
>When they do power up, there's always an extremely competent explanation and it's always relevant to the plot, story and development of the character.
I thought you NnT died when your shitty manga turned into lol powerlevels?

>>149008882
>Nanatsu no Taizai is an exception
There was an entire arc dedicated to training and showing how the MC is better than everyone because he's a demon spawn that gets stronger with each reincarnation also powerlevels

>>149012517
Here's your (you)

>>149004268
>>149004268

And the ones that live long enough learn some tactics? Or do they have those already because african life style?

>>148997610
>Bitches about doping
>"Doped" on another being's chakra his entire life as a shortcut

Naruto a SHIT

>>148999254

In the end we saw that with higher levels of power you just shrug off magic/reality warping of a lower tier power than you.

Ichigo has 3 power sources, so a potential 3 times stronger than any shinigami alone could reach. The end result is that it's pure lineage with a bit of 'oh no my host is getting fucked up, assuming direct control to not die and actually use max power because the host is holding back out of fear'.

In the end it was almost only because of what he was (and the events that pushed him to reach tribrid) that enabled them to win, that and convenient arrow.

I'd have liked to properly go into the 'you're bred for a purpose kid' aspect more. Since at least aizen, urahara and isshin knew. FGT out of nowhere etc

>>149001153

No horny child soldier teenagers here. Unless you're talking about the housewife era stuff, then I guess the same could be said of any housewife when the husband goes off to shoot poor desert dwelling foreigners.

>>148998153
>And let's not even get started with Dragon Ball.
Goku is like the one shounen protag that actually trains the hardest though. Even Vegeta slacks off once he has a wife and kids, but Goku literally abandons his family just to train 24/7.

>>149014343
What arc? You mean the cave at Istar? None of the Sins benefited from that, the only ones who did were Gilthunder and Hauser. Meliodas receiving his lost power was not a case of him being better than anyone. I'm not sure how you even came to that conclusion.

Meliodas doesn't power up, he simply retrieves the power he's lost which, by the way, comes with severe consequences as his old cruel, ruthless self comes with the power. Not only are his "power ups" competent, but they also come with actual repercussions and develop the story and the character itself.

>also powerlevels
Nice meme.

>>149014439
There's no point teaching tactics to cannon fodder, which is what they're used for. That and sneak attacks because nobody expects a child to blow themselves up.

>>149014307
NnT is alive and doing better than ever in both quality and popularity.

>lol powerlevels
You mean the JRPG-like system that makes it to where characters don't have to do dumb shit in order to prove their power? Not to mention it's rarely ever used and doesn't mean anything in the heat of battle. It's simply a tool to measure one's overall power and willpower.
It's actually pathetic that you had to bring up an insignificant part of the series because you couldn't actually refute anything I said.

>>149015114
>Soldiers can't even trust that a crying child won't pull a gun on them if they try to help
It's really fucked up when you think about it, but that's war for you.

>>148999004

It's not stupid as long as he can never use nen again.

>>148998153

>Ichigo masters bankai in 3 days

Haha, how idiotic. He basically cheated his way to bankai in 3 days. He basically had just enough usage with it to crush Byakuya's pride.

He didn't really master his bankai until the end of the decide arc, where he fused with his blade to become a god in physical form.

>>148997714
I don't see how it's much from not allowing people to cheat on any given exam in the real world, in which doing so equals a university expulsion.

>>149015798
>how it's much different from not allowing

>>149008495
>Hard work, training, and getting stronger to face shit is like 90% of what sold DBZ in the fucking first place

If you're not a saiyan in DBZ you're useless.

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>>149015148
>>NnT is alive and doing better than ever in both quality and popularity.
>You mean the JRPG-like system that makes it to where characters don't have to do dumb shit in order to prove their power?
That's not the same thing at all
> Not to mention it's rarely ever used and doesn't mean anything in the heat of battle
Two lies in a row, its was used in the last fight of the arc when measuring the strength of the MC.
>>149014975
>None of the Sins benefited from that,
Are you fucking kidding me? The MC was able to unlock his true power with the training because it had been sealed for years on end. If anything he benefited the most from the training while the rest never even fucking got to show us BECAUSE THEY WERE TOO WEAK TO TAKE ON THE DEMONS DUE TO THEIR LOW POWER LEVELS
>Meliodas doesn't power up
He does it all the fucking time. The rest of what you wrote is bullshit also powerlevels. You lose again.

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>>148998153
One Piece is one of the very few shonen that actually subverts this, in that Oda goes out of his way to keep every crew member relevant. But something like Naruto or DBZ or Bleach in which its just the entire cast huddling around a single chosen one, standing on the sidelines and waiting for him to save them? Yeah. Those are very Japanese. The idea that some people are just naturally better and that "it can't be helped."

>>148997610
or like naruto who was just an underachieving fuck who pretended to be a try hard - because he had super powered ninja linage and bloodlines that meant he was always BETTER then everyone else.

So he's still pretending hard work got him to where he is?

>>149016053
>That's not the same thing at all

How not? Nakaba is extremely inspired by JRPGs and the Powerlevel system blatantly reflects that. Much like in a JRPG, powerlevels in NnT are simply measurements of one's overall power. But, like in a JRPG, they aren't absolute due to the existence of hax and bad/good match ups. Ban vs Galan and Merasyclla, Fraudrin vs The Azure Knights, Gowther's Invasion itself (etc) made that pretty clear.

>Two lies in a row, its was used in the last fight of the arc when measuring the strength of the MC

Recently doesn't equate to often. Just because it was used a few chapters ago doesn't change the fact that they're rarely ever present. Use your brain, anon.

>The MC was able to unlock his true power with the training

He didn't train, he took an exam. There's a HUGE difference. The exam was needed because he is the Sin of Wrath and like the name suggests, he has anger issues. The power was taken away from him in the first place due to him losing it and destroying an entire kingdom. He didn't unlock anything, he was simply given back what originally belonged to him.

>BECAUSE THEY WERE TOO WEAK TO TAKE ON THE DEMONS DUE TO THEIR LOW POWER LEVELS

Wow, yet I'm autistic? Anon, what you just said applies to every battle manga. The weaker characters can't compete with the stronger ones because that would be illogical, numerical power levels or not.. It's the same in every series.

>The rest of what you wrote is bullshit
>Can't refute

>also powerlevels
Nice meme.

>>148999627
>hurr you killed muh krulllun
>Ima get so mad I'll go blond
Sure that's not a complete asspull because they claimed that there was only one legendary super saiyan every thousand years or whatever but then everybody and their five year old became a super saiyan
>there's higher levels above super saiyan that even though there has been literally one super saiyan before us ever, we can go two transformations higher
>oh there's a super saiyan god transformation because fuck it
>I'm blue because fuck it
don't even try to defend dbz

>>149015798
The first part of the chunnin exam was to test how well one could cheat.

>>149017259
And the remainder was designed to assess everything else.

>>149017259
Naruto becoming Hokage is a mistake.

>>149016053
Also, whether or not you wanna consider Meliodas getting back his ORIGINAL power a power up.. It doesn't change the fact that his "power ups" aren't only competent, but they're relevant to the plot and is used to develop the character, as seen in chapter 196 where he actually cried due to being so terrified of his former self and hurting his comrades.

>>149007080


The top panel is real dynamic.

You do really get that in the latter half of the manga.

>>148997610
God naruto is shit. Naruto generals being allowed here was a mistake.

>>148997714
The thing is that there's both sides to the argument. It's for Chuunin Exams so you really should be tested on your own abilities rather than relying strictly on outside means. On the other hand, tools in the exams are perfectly allowed (not to mention the countless clan and jutsu that often tread into questionable legitimacy of territories) and it's just another tool.

>>148997714
same reason why the military train with basic drawn maps and other low tech shit.

gotta be able to handle yourself if your fancy toys fail and you have to depend on your own skills to survive.

>>149017071
>>How not?
Because you're just spinning common conventions to suit your own delusions like here >>149017428 even though it works the same way as any other power level indicator complete with its own scouter no less.
>Recently doesn't equate to often.
Its been brought up quite often in the arc, this isn't a rare accordance either.
>He didn't train
He did train. That was the whole point of the trail. He didn't just get his power back and fuck off he stayed and trained.
>Anon, what you just said applies to every battle manga
Nope only the shitty ones like Nantsu no Taizai
>Can't refute
I can't refute your fanfiction.
>Nice meme
Not a meme if its the truth

>>149015404
There's no reason to keep him from using nen forever. He's already had a traumatic experience, reached his lowest point emotionally, damaged his relationship with Killua, committed some serious moral wrongs, and all for nothing because he didn't save Kite. As long as some solid conflict is involved in getting his nen back, the narrative has compensated for undoing a consequence.

The real question is how much it will affect his personality and if he's learned from it.

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>>149002692
>his true Bankai barely did anything against Yhwach

Is there another shounen where the mc gets raped by the final boss?

If there is one thing I hate in any story is the villain winning but leaving the hero alive for any reason whatsoever, he was okay with killing everyone until now, but killing the mc is a no go? Kill the fucker already.

And Ichigo going out on a blaze of glory would be so much better than what we got, "the tragic hero who lost his life protecting the world from the monster called Yhwach" sounds better than "the pathetic child who cried in the corner while Yhwach raped Orihime".

>>149018724

There's the theory that his nen needs to remain removed when he meets Jairo who's looking to be one of the last arc villains of HxH.

Togashi said there's two/three arcs left and all of the current focus is on the dark continent.

So Gon might not have his nen for the rest of the series.

>>148997610
That page looks good. The artist improved or Kishi started to draw this?

>>149018498
>even though it works the same way as any other power level indicator complete with its own scouter no less
Nope, it works exactly like it does in a JRPG like Final Fantasy (which Nakaba openly stated he was inspired by and had an entire interview with the creator, so so your statement about my argument being delusional is invalid). As Gowther himself said when Balor's Eye became a thing, they are rough estimates and could be completely irrelevant in certain situations. Debuffs, hax, match ups, strategy, etc.. Power levels have been shown to be completely useless when facing those things.
>Its been brought up quite often in the arc, this isn't a rare accordance either
It's really not. Nakaba actually put every character's powerlevel in the Databook instead of the manga. He has no plans of putting them in manga due to Balor's Eye being very insignificant and only acting as a power measurement tool. Which is why you justifying your irrational hate for the series based on "b-but numbers!" is laughably pathetic and can rightfully be considered nothing more than a meme.
>He did train. That was the whole point of the trail. He didn't just get his power back and fuck off he stayed and trained
No, he went into the cave and shortly got into an argument with King. I wouldn't consider that training at all. Go reread the Istar chapters and, if you can, show me an actual picture where Meliodas is training. I'll wait.
>Nope only the shitty ones like Nantsu no Taizai
Obviously it's not shitty enough since all of your arguments are based around a minuscule part of the series and absolutely nothing else. Is "b-but numbers!" all you got? I would expect you to have more up your sleeves since NnT is apparently a shitty manga.
>I can't refute your fanfiction
Knowledge and facts are now fan fiction accoriding to this guy. Too bad everything I said is in manga and 100% canon.
>Not a meme if its the truth
B-but power leffuls!!!
Hahaha, nice meme.

>>148997610
>drugs are bad m'kay?

>>149000853
Could an Edo Tensei use gates? Could they use it indefinitely?

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>>149008882
>there's always an extremely competent explanation

>>148997610
It's not like shonen protagonists do not train like mad though.

>>148997610
I just want to bring up Kenichi for a good example
he really only had hard work going for him
we saw him develop all his techniques, no asspulls
too bad they cut the manga and it turned into cowtits galore

Because no matter how hard you try and how good you get by hard work, natural talent will always be better. The 5 year old child genius is smarter and more valuable than the 60 year college professor for a reason.

>>148999822
Tenten is a weapon master, the scroll only stores her weapons.
Boruto cheated because he don't know the jutsus his tool sends out.

To put it in real world perspective, it would be like while the others did their jobs, Boruto just ctrl-c ctrl-v a wikipedia article and expected nobody to find it out.

>>149021229
still angry about the ending

>>148997610
Fullmetal Alchemist
Negima
Kenichi, as >>149021229 mentioned
Ippo
JJBA while it was still shounen
Mx0
Claymore
even Hero Academia would count

Read better manga.

>>149010818
sounds like japan is warning the world through manga about the reality of everyday society.

>tfw manga neets are the most redpilled in the world.

>>148998153
Luffy spends most of his life up to the manga's start surviving in a jungle and training to use his ability. Luffy was useless with his rubber powers for years until he put the time and effort into it. Even now, Luffy's abilities are incredibly strenuous and he is regularly outclassed in one or more areas depending on his opponents.

Sabo's use of the fire fruit flies in the face of this though, it's fairly glaring

Anyways, if you follow the series then you'd know that the Yonko and their crews look like they seriously outclass Luffy and his crew right now. Luffy just spent 11 hours fighting 1 of 4 commanders in a Yonko's crew and had crucial help from one of his crewmates during the fight.

I still don't understand how Sasque and Nurutu have problems while fighting.
They are literally living gods.
They should have used at the very least Susanoo on Fox. Not to mention Rinnengan chakra sucking

>>148997610
Geee, if there were only some kage level worriors there to help them....

>>149020523
That's not a power up whatsoever. It's her magic that shes always possessed. Nakaba revealed the.name in the databook before it even appeared in manga. Try harder anon.

>>149021687
Hero Academia does not count. Are you stupid? The kid has only had his Quirk for a few months and is already better than half of the cast whose had it all their life. It's probably the biggest offender of this bullshit.

>>149023529
To be fair, OfA is supposed to be broken. And Todoroki is still stronger than him.

>>149023529
I'm not sure if you are stupid, but MC trains all the damn time to close the gap between others. He is shown all the time either writing weaknesses and strenghts down or trying new moves and tactics...

But sadly his power is kinda ass pull, Unstoppable force.

>>148997610
So that children in real life won't try to imitate them seriously and risk suffering severe injuries.

See that little girl who tried to fly in april.

>>148999075
>without Red Earth those guys would be unable to do anything
That's not their fault, they don't naturally have chakra like humans do.

>>149021229
>cut the manga
It was going WAY longer than it needed be. I mean, I'm a big wuxia fan and I like that the later parts were wuxia as fuck but like many other works of it's genre, it meandered around too much.

>>149024778
No, they're aliens so they had to die.

>>149025441
>6'2" blond, blue eyed ubermensch wipes out inferior alien life forms
They just wanted to know what love is, they wanted him to show them.

>>148999822

I think, but I can't be sure, that the issue here is that ideally the power should come from within. Like, if you went to a martial arts tournament, you shouldn't be packing a gun.

I mean, it's clever, but you're also missing the point! The point was to see who was best at punching people, but you just shot 'em.

What would happen if you had to fight someone in hand-to-hand combat? Without that new device, you'd be a liability.

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>>149021367
What are you angry about? I think it should have ended earlier since at that point it was just dragging out. As for the ending itself, I think it was satisfying. Kenichi eventually became a master himself, fucked Miu and had a cute daughteru with her. It was obviously rushed out the ass, but I don't think it was straight up bad.

>>149023529
He's also been studying heroes and villains for a while, and even though he is strong because of OFA he's still at a loss at how to use it, he can't simply copy the fighting style of the previous user because doing so will leave him injured, he has to come up with his own solutions.

>>149023582
>Todoroki stronger than him
>Deku whooped his ass when he couldn't even use his quirk without breaking his bones

>>149024167
Regardless of how you want to justify it, it doesn't change the fact that he was given a power and became stronger than most of his classmates and also beating adult villains.

Studying and a few months of training doesn't make it more logical.

>>149027343
His bones breaking after using OfA is a weak repercussion since the nurse at the school can simply heal him every single time.

I've been studying cooking since I was twelve and took classes in highschool, yet I'm still not better than my uncle, which is completely logical.

Him training all the time doesn't change the fact that he's fucking up long time villains and is one of the best in his classroom. Ichigo trained all the time too, he's exactly like Deku when it comes to this shit.

>>148997610
Because they have shit writers 99% of the time.

>>149031200
>nurse at the school can simply heal him every single time.
See bandaged arm+ him trying to be a speedster

>>149031005
>>149031200
Holy fuck are you really this dense?

All of Deku's classmates have had their Quirks since they were children, so Deku had to work twice as hard as any of them to even compete; if Deku hadn't, then him having OFA would have been useless and he'd have dropped out. This is literally the opposite of Naruto, who had basically every blessing a Ninja could need even before he started training for it. Deku earns everything he has (including OFA) whereas Naruto is from two special bloodlines, has a tailed beast and managed to snag a new powerup before every boss fight.

>>149018498
9 whole hours and still haven't responded to >>149019607

I guess I'll take this win. Don't start something you can't win, anon. You made a fool of yourself.

>>149031412
Just like how Ichigo is bandaged after he's stabbed but can still fight. Doesn't mean anything.

>>149031527
He doesn't use his broken fist attacks anymore ,my friend

>>149031200
>he thinks an anecdote is a proper analogy to a fictional manga

Did your uncle rape the shit out of you? Because you're being a real faggot.

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>>148997610
As already mentioned, Kenichi.

>>149031200
>His bones breaking after using OfA is a weak repercussion since the nurse at the school can simply heal him every single time.

This is a recurring plot point. They specifically mention that his arms are going to become permanently crippled if he keeps destroying them. He's had to adjust his fighting style in order to compensate for this.

>>149032193
And he was told this before, wrekted his arms, and was healed again. While being told the exact same thing about being crippled.

>>149032452
>my little anon literally can't be this dense

Do you even read the posts you're replying to?

>>149031200
>His bones breaking after using OfA is a weak repercussion since the nurse at the school can simply heal him every single time.
They literally said that Deku breaking his arms so much is causing strain to his body, and if he keeps doing it it'll make his arms permanently crippled which is the reason why he had to change his fighting style.

>>149032452
He was only told that once, the first time he just his hand permanently disfigured.

>>149017375
Naruto is a textbook example of a braindead liberal coming to power
>ninjas are supposed to be about ruthless efficiency and stealth?
>WELL I BELIEVE THAT BEING A NINJA IS ABOUT MAKING FRIENDS. WORKED OUT FOR ME
>*Konoha destruction intensifies*

>>149007080
Remember when ninjas had no hard feelings about killing a person or two with maybe a kid on the side if it meant completing their mission? Yeah.

I'm really glad I didn't fall for the Naruto meme when I was a kid.

One Punch Man

>>149035712
>One Punch Man
>shounen

>>149036669
>One Meme Man
>not shounen
Show me proof it's not. It fits what OP's saying more than anything

>>149036753
It runs in Tonari no Young Jump.

>>149036855
And? So it runs on a irelevant magazine, still shounen. Checkmate OPMfag

>>149021229
I liked the manga even when it was cowtits galore. It felt like I was getting porn and action at the same time. Too bad there's no good ecchi artist around to draw it.
>>149027266
Different anon, but I was more angry that Kenichi didn't at least get a timeskip where we see everyone in adult form for a few chaptes.