>HF Shirou is best Shirou! >Doesn't save Illya >Doesn't

All Shirous are shit. Fate fags just delude themselves. He's easily one of the most least popular TM character. Shitrou a shit

>>146321642
>Doesn't save Kirei
That's a good thing, faggot. Everything else is spot-on, though.

9 times out of 10 I've found that people who enjoy HF the most have the least understanding of the characters and the story.

Not trying to poke at people who enjoy it, and I'm not even talking about shit involving Sakura, but I've had way too many conversations with people who think HF is the 'awsomeest' because Shirou gives up his ideals.

CCC is best fate

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Posting best ship

>>146321896

The first half or so is pretty solid but yeah when he just goes full on sacrificing everything to save Sakura it does get kinda annoying.

Especially since Illya's by far the best girl in this route and she's mostly ignored in the end until she has to sacrifice herself.

>>146321642
Nasu is female.
What every female wants is a cuck to accept her as the bitch she is and do fucking everything for her and only her, that's exactly what Shiroe does in HF, so do the math.

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>>146321642
Miyuverse Shiro is best Shiro.

>>146323248
>got caught and thrown in jail
>best

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>>146323333
What a terribly wasted get on such horrible banter

>>146321642
prillya shero is best shero

>>146321896
It's pretty retarded to argue that it's the best because he gives up his ideals considering even way back in Fate he was about to do it.

>>146321642
Him not saving anyone besides the worm infested whore was the reason he was good

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>>146321642
HF Shirou is based because he put his mind to a single goal and accomplished it
Fate Shirou didn't know didn't want to admitwhat he wanted and sort of just floundered around
UBW Shirou is pretty cool because the clash of ideals and him trying to be a hero and save as many people as possible
HF Shirou was out to save one single girl. He stepped on and slapped everyone who tried to deny that. He fought tooth and fucking nail to see her smiling face again and that's admirable in a way.
Seeing him toss his ideals away is what puts most people off.
I'm a bit biased because I think all Shirous are wonderful

Prism Shirou is HF Shirou if the person he wanted to save wasn't a worthless wormslut.

>>146321642
Saving the used goods was literally his goal, saving anyone else would've just been a bonus.

Because faggots think this is somehow super romantic and Shirou's manly as fuck now that he's letting people die to get some pussy.

In other words, selfish retards.

>>146323767
Better a selfish shit than a moralfag

>>146321896
Nasu described the route as "friction between ideals and reality". When HF Shirou dropped his ideals for Sakura, that's when shit started to hit the fan. And him being a demi-servant cemented him as the best Shirou.

But then, HF shirou is more than that.

>>146323868
>demi-servant
>GARm is literally killing him from the inside
He was much closer to Servant-tier in UBW when he wasn't being murdered by his own powers.

>>146323868
HF provides a very interesting look into the character and how situations may shape his beliefs, but I've had a bizarre amount of conversations with people who think Shirou's character development from Fate -> UBW - > HF is linear.

As if the answers received in those routes are circumvented for the one in HF, which I just find absurd, not only for the fact that Nasu has said it's not true, but because I have to question how any individual who read FSN could come out of it feeling satisfied with those results.

If I left it, and I was told that 500k words worth of the narrative I had just read, and the morals and answered given within in them, were deemed 'incorrect' by the final third act, not only would I consider that bad writing, but a huge 'fuck you' for wasting my time.

>>146323911
Still, HF Shirou is obviously closer to Servant-Tier. Recreating Nine lives was only possible thanks to the GARm that overloaded his brain with all those OP techniques. He even "out skilled" Saber Alter.

>>146324015
HF Shirou is a glass cannon mostly. The times where he fought were very circumstantial, since using the arm outright kills him.

He's plenty strong, but not very practical.

>>146324014
> but I've had a bizarre amount of conversations with people who think Shirou's character development from Fate -> UBW - > HF is linear.
What the fuck. I don't even.

F/SN was even toned down to appease to shounen fags and people still don't get it? Wow.

>>146321791
>All Shirous are shit. Fate fags just delude themselves. He's easily one of the most least popular TM character. Shitrou a shit
Nigguh, he's the 5th top male character.

>>146324148
I'm not trying to create a boogieman, and I especially don't want to rant about imaginary people who aren't even here right now, but it has not been a one off occurrence for me where I've seen people think HF was the narrative's "right" answer.

>>146324171

Who's number 1?

>>146321642
But... Miyuverse shirou is best shirou.

>>146324211
Archer

>>146324285

So Shirou's number 1 and 5? Wonder how high Prisma Shirou will score.

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All Shirous are wonderful

Who would win in a fight between UBW Shirou and Miyuverse Shirou?

>>146324318
No rank since he lacks sword autism.
Miyu Shirou should at least turn some heads, especially if you self-insert as a little girl who gets molested by other little girls.

HF and HF Shirou are the best because no Mana transfer bullshit. Just sex for the sake of sex.

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>>146323248
>Fate: Maximum idealist Shirou
>UBW: Idealist Shirou that acknowledges reality but rejects it
>HF: Self-traitor of his ideals for the sake of his waifu
>Prisma: Siscon Shirou

Only one has his priorities right.

>>146324425

Why is Prisma Shirou so rugged?

>>146321642
HF Shirou is the worst Shirou. All he did was focus his rescue-boner entirely on the wormslut.

>>146324449
But it's not just for the sake of sex. It's to quell the lust worm.

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>>146324211
Who do you think?

He's been top TM boy for literally years now.

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>>146321791
You are retarded. Here is why

>>146324473
>but rejects it

He doesn't reject it. He understands that he can't save everyone, but will do his best to help.

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>>146324476
He's been through a lot of shit

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>>146323832
Others can matter more than just you or your waifu's happiness, anon. Singlemindedly locking yourself to one person can mean neglecting everyone else. In my humble opinion.

>>146321642
>Doesn't save Illya
Pretty much this. Shirou was a useless piece of shit.

>>146324566

Miyu Shirou saved Illya's waifu

>>146321896
>9 times out of 10 I've found that people who enjoy HF the most have the least understanding of the characters and the story.
It's the complete other way around, though, as shown by morons like the OP.

>>146324015
Depends on your definition of Servant-tier. Is it the ability to perform exactly at, or extremely close to, a Servant's level whatsoever? If so then HF Shirou MIGHT win that category with NLBW and Crane Wing. But don't forget, UBW Shirou mimics the exp from swords he pulls out, letting him do the same shit Fate Shirou did when he managed to trade blows with Berserker via Caliburn.

I'd say trading blows with Berserker, even if just for 5 seconds, is Servant-tier.

>>146321642
Because he's actually acting the way a person would act in the real life, and not like some delusional manchild.

>>146324580
Based Hiroyama fixed FSN.

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Gudako is the best Shirou.

>>146324014
>not only would I consider that bad writing, but a huge 'fuck you' for wasting my time.
Yes, UBW is awfully written shit. I'm glad you realized.

>HF Shirou can use UBW because of Archer arm
>Prisma Shirou can use UBW because imprint from Archer card.
>Fate Shirou can't use UBW
>UBW Shirou can use UBW because he just watch how Archer did

Why is UBW the worst route again?

>>146324684
No, UBW Shirou can use it because memories of Archer's past and capabilities were imprinted into his mind due to time fuckery.

HF Shirou cannot use UBW properly either. Not the reality marble, anyway.

>>146324659
Nice try but HF is a horrible frankenstine of a route that was made by slamming together two very different routes for two heroines. That is why it reads like a piece of shit

>>146324547
Nips have shit taste, worm slut being that high is proof of that.

>>146321642
>What's so great about him?
Everything you just listed.

>>146324745
Maybe, but there is a fuckhuge gap between her and Aoko though

>>146324728
Ilya's just a supporting character. The parts of HF that revolve around her can be counted on one hand, and generally tie into Sakura since they're both grails.

Meanwhile, UBW goes full shounen with crap like Shirou adamantly screaming that he's not wrong in the face of reason and facts, and somehow getting rewarded for it, as well as characters like Lancer and Archer surviving fatal blows for no reason.

>>146324802
>UBW
>shonen
This has always been the most fucking retarded of buzzwords.

And if you dont know that Ilya's route was quite literally cannabalised into Sakura's route, you are quite the dirty secondary.

>>146321642
No Shirou saved Kirei.

>>146324802
See, this is what I'm talking about.

Completely misunderstanding the story. Shirou was right in UBW. That was the whole point.

Archer's 'facts and reason' were him saying Shirou didn't know what he was getting into, and when faced with the reality of what he was getting into, Shirou still didn't back down.

Archer didn't have a leg to stand on.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to help others.

>>146324759
She shouldn't even be on that list and Ilya should be much higher

>>146324802
>s well as characters like Lancer and Archer surviving fatal blows for no reason.

Lancer has battle continuation as an ability and is the hero who literally survived tons of fatal wonds and continued fighting. His last act of life was to use his guts to tie himself to a tree so that he could still fight with his arms and die upright.

Archer has independant action and never received a "fatal" injury.

Please actually fucking read the VN before you comment, wormfag.

>>146324597
Its true. Same with the person you replied to.
>Rules have changed, grail is eating servants and people, true assassin on the prowl
>Somehow the route should still play out in a similar way like fate and UBW did.
Also this time Ilya and Kirei save Shirou and Shirou saves them in turn, and the Matous and everyone who fought over the grail too, by closing the HGW cycles.

>>146324825
Of course it was, but the result was good, since their routes were clearly similar in nature, much like the Far Side routes of Tsukihime. Ilya getting involved upped the antes and made HF feel like even more of a grand finale.

>>146324879
Their routes were nothing alike. You can tell that since HF plays out like it has schizophrenia.

>>146324857
>Archer didn't have a leg to stand on.
Except, you know, that he literally knew Shirou's future and that he WOULD regret it by then regardless of what he was saying in the present.

>>146324802
Wormslut is the worst girl she should have died in every route

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>>146324865
>never received a "fatal" injury.

>>146324921
Except Archer didn't regret it. That was the whole point. Archer lived through to his ideal until the very end, and only grew jaded through being a CG.

Seeing Shirou in his prime, and staring at his future willing to embrace it, made him realize that his dream wasn't all bravado.

One major irony I like from HF is that for all the ideal-dropping in the route, Shirou should have gone through the hero thing in order to get away with what he did in HF, because without Archer's power he would have been unable to do much.

So, he had to rely on the "ally of justice" Shirou's powers to be able to get what he wanted.

>>146324960
A fatal injury to a servant:

1) Destruction of Brain
2) Destruction of Heart

Neither of these things happened you retarded secondary.

What killed Archer in the end was running out of Prana.

>>146321642
>HF Shirou is best Shirou!
He was.
The one in Kaleid is the best.

>>146324966
>Except Archer didn't regret it.
Yeah, that's why he was trying to kill Shirou and erase his own existence, right?

>>146324984
>What killed Archer in the end was running out of Prana.
Which he should have done a long time ago before that.

>>146325013
INDEPENDANT ACTION

Fucking Secondary scum

>>146324992
Yes, after an eternity of being trapped as a guardian, and growing jaded through it.

It was a set of very specific situations that led him to where he was, but the overarching path he took wasn't wrong. He realized this in the end. Shirou realized this. You, as a reader, were supposed to realize this.

It's like the entire character development in the story flew right over your head.

>>146324912
That's nothing new with TM works, though. It's a major part of Nasu's writing style, even.

>>146325061
Again, read the comments above that explain why HF stood out like a sore thumb.

>>146325037
>LE BUZZWORDS XDDD
He went for days without a master, got impaled through the heart by Shirou, skewered by Gilgamesh, and then projected Rho Aias and a sword. Not even Independent Action justifies that much bullshit. Bad writing, plain and simple.

>>146325113
No it isnt. He conserved what prana he had and existed within the perameters that were already fully explained about the Archer class.

Also
>buzzword
It isnt a buzzword if its 100% true. It isnt a buzzword because you find it inconvinient.

Please just fuck off. Its clear even to the most jaded that you have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

>>146325113
Nasu tried retconning it by saying that he hunted phantasmal beasts in the Einzbern forest and ate them to replenish mana.

>>146325038
No, I just recognized like most other people did that the character development was complete nonsense. If all Archer had to do was say "hey, don't become a Counter Guardian, shit sucks" to Shirou, the entire conflict in UBW was completely unnecessary.

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Why is he here? Explain!

>>146325159
And hence the criticism is justified, considering even Nasu felt the need to fix it.

>>146325201
Nasu has done this the most with HF since it is such a clusterfuck

>>146325165
Except that Archer himself didn't realize that. He was genuinely frustrated and angry what he perceived to be wrong choices he made in life. He felt his entire ideology was a mistake, and not only wanted to dissuade Shirou away from it, but hurt him, and make him admit he was wrong.

Shirou not backing down though, and willing to faces this problems face on, made Archer himself reevaluate whether or not the life he lived was as bad as he thought.

I swear, I don't understand how this can be so hard for people.

>>146325073
If one has read other Nasu VNs, it really doesn't. The Kohaku route being rushed was far more noticeable.

>>146325216
He's going to have to re-write the whole VN someday. It doesn't even fit with the rest of the series anymore.

>>146325216
>He felt his entire ideology was a mistake
And it was. F/Z and HF made that pretty clear.

>tfw Prisma+GO collab happens
>tfw dysfunctional Emiya family gets bigger
>chuuni dad
>batshit crazy mom
>"older" jaded cynical dick brother
>dense as sword as fuck brother
>siscon brother
>2 bisexual daughters who want onii-chan's dick
>my son's lesbian sister

>>146325159
UBW has a shit ton of flaws compared to Fate and Heaven's Feel. Fate and HF play well within the rule set explained throughout Fate. UBW is a mess.

>>146325181
Fuck off Shirou! You already have a character in F/GO we don't need any more Shirou Clones. Saberface is an exception.

>>146325165
>f all Archer had to do was say "hey, don't become a Counter Guardian, shit sucks" to Shirou, the entire conflict in UBW was completely unnecessary.
No, that wouldn't do, because Archer didn't give a fuck about Shirou. What he wanted was to stop being a CG, and his plan by killing Shirou was to create some kind of paradox (by him killing his younger self) that he would become erased (however he thought that would work, I don't recall being ever explained).

>>146325274
>UBW has a shit ton of flaws compared to Fate and Heaven's Feel. Fate and HF play well within the rule set explained throughout Fate. UBW is a mess.

Replace UBW and HF and you are correct.

>>146324565
You're correct. Sacrificing the many to save the one is wrong. But just because it's wrong doesn't mean it's not right.

>>146325274
>HF
>plays within the rules explained in fate

This is bad bait

>>146325280
>What he wanted was to stop being a CG
And somehow, Shirou being stubborn and petulant conveniently made him give up on trying to escape eternal suffering. UBWfags somehow try to defend this.

>>146325339
Archer knew killing Shirou wasn't going to work. Jesus Christ, how do you not know this?

He himself admitted it was a long shot, because no matter what, outside of space and time, there was a Shirou out there who would become a counter guardian. Archer's fate was set in stone.

What he really wanted to do was lash out at Shirou. get some reassurance that his anger was vindicated, and that his mindset was right.

Instead, he left matters realizing his choices weren't as wrong as he thought. He was allowed, for however brief of a time, to make peace with his life.

>>146325389
Doesn't mean he shouldn't have tried.

>>146325339
Because he was reminded on how he used to view his ideal? That the ideal wasn't the sham he had come to think since becoming a CG?

It wasn't Shirou being stubborn, it was about him giving his all to chase after an idea he thought worthy and beautiful, and it happened Archer still held those feelings as well, underneath all that bitterness.

>>146325415
Archer did try, but first and foremost his goal was to bring Shirou to heel. He could have sniped him a thousand times, and likely not net any results other than a furious Rin, but how many chances did he have to get into Shirou's head, and break him and his beliefs down to their very core?

That's what the Archer fight was about, and that's also why Shirou won, because he didn't break down. He saw everything laid out before him, his potential future, his actions, his death, and he accepted them as possibilities, because the path at hand wasn't wrong.

>>146324621
t. delusional manchild

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>>146324745
That's not even the highest rank she's gotten.

>>146325477
Kill yourself, fucking retarded shonenbaby. UBW is trash.

>>146325327
It is. Outside of the only magi active in the current HGW, Rin and Shirou, everyone else uses Grail magic. So in HF, everyone loses to the grail itself and to beat it Shirou and Rin had to rely on the best Rin's ancestors had, and all that Shirou had learned.

Go back to UBW and watch humans punch and kick servants and see Rin use flash bangs on Caster as if servants were no big deal anyway. Then watch humans take hold of noble phantasms and basically cheat the command seal system too. And then watch Gilgamesh spare people because he's not in the mood. Fuck this route is traaash.

In Fate servants are ruthless and confrontations happen and end in death. If you look at HF this translates seamlessly and meshes together. Can't say the same with UBW.

>>146325504
HF is just edgy shonen. Get over yourself.

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>>146324728
>frankenstine
Watch out, we've got ourselves a literary major over here!

>>146325481
>can't read kanji
Which one is wormslut?

>>146325534
My goodness, do you completely forget how in Fate Rin kill Herakles with gem magic, and how Shirou wielded Caliburn, and cut his arm off?

Not with the help Saber mind you. Fate Shirou- the one often perceived as the weakest, stood up with Caliburn, and tore of Berserker's arm.

Go re-read the VN. Your memory is terrible.

>>146321642
Things are out of control for him to do anything and why the hell should he save scum like shinji?

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>>146325598
Sakura's in 4th place.

Rin and Ilya are in 7th and 21st place respectively.

>>146325546
>edgy
Meaningless buzzword. Trying growing up and stop acting like a fucking child.

>>146325602
Shirou likes Shinji.

>>146325644
You say this as you call UBW "shonen".

>>146325644
>Meaningless buzzword.
>says this while using "shounen" incorrectly
Sweet irony, kiddo.

>>146325654
Because that's what it is.

>>146325630
I can read the katakana just fine. It's just the thousands of kanji I haven't memorized yet.

>>146325670
Then so is HF. It's very "shounen".

>>146325670
UBW, the route in an 18+ visual novel, is a demographic of 9-14 year olds?

Not even a genre, a demographic.

>>146321896
I find HF to be the weakest because it drags on for to long.

>>146325696
HF is the only F/SN route that isn't written like a generic shounen with shoehorned H-scenes.

>>146325696
UBW is literally made for children. It having porn doesn't change that fact.

>>146325696
Because sex. Realta Nua is 15+

>>146325734
Shonen isn't a genre.

>>146325741
How is it made for children?

>>146325745
So not even within the demo of shonen at all.

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>>146325776
>Shonen isn't a genre.
Sophistry at its finest. UBW is the same genre as Naruto and Bleach, and the writing is at the same level.

>>146325734
>MC with single minded goal
>MC chooses to protect someone precious to him, even if it's "wrong"
>MC uses forbidden power at the cost of his life/lifespan
Add shoehorned h-scenes and yeah, it's the same shit different flavor.

>>146325813
You just repeatedly throw out buzzwords with little substance.

I mean you could fit all of FSN into the same mold, don't kid yourself. How many "shonen" stories feature characters risking it all to save the girl? It's exactly a mature or original plot point.

That doesn't make it bad, but to claim other routes are specifically mroe sophisticated, while in this very thread, we have a multitude of people who seemingly can't even grasp the concepts of UBW's morals, it's pretty laughable.

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>>146325813
>equating UBW to Naruto and Bleach

>>146325878
>I mean you could fit all of FSN into the same mold
Because it's true. Even Nasu said that CCC is the seinen to FSN's shonen.

>>146325878
>we have a multitude of people who seemingly can't even grasp the concepts of UBW's morals
People get UBW, they just realize the Archer vs Shirou showdown is ridiculous as fuck. Take HF, though, and you'll find the same people who praise UBW not being able to wrap their heads around things as basic as the fact that the heroine is the heroine and not an evil monster.

>>146325956
And hey, whatever, but I find it laughable to argue that any one particular route is more mature than the others.

Though I question how much of a statement like that isn't Nasu just fluffing up his latest work. He's doing the same now with GO.

>>146321896
because either his character is toned down a lot(F/SN) completely fucking retarded when it comes down to his ideals(UBW) or he throws them away far to much(HF)

you have no real balance. the ideal balance for shirou would be a combination of UBW, and HF.

out of the 3, UBW is the most retarded when you really look at it.

FSN is meant to be read as a whole. I get why people prefer some routes over others but it's one continuous work with a slow start(Fate route).

>>146325956
CCC is also the equivalent to HF, while the original F/E corresponded to Fate and UBW.

>>146325601
Right. UBW fags always jump to other routes to call for inconsistencies when they're called out for UBW's multitude of them. In Fate, I think Shirou tracing Caliburn is perfectly within the realm of the matters discussed in the said route. Its even expanded upon in UBW.

When Shirou traces a weapon, it is a grade lower than the real thing. When Shirou wields Caliburn, he is able to obtain it because Saber was his servant, he had dedicated his being to be with her and to love Saber, he had been dreaming on matters regarding Kiritsugu, his dad and Saber's prior master, and most importantly he had Avalon inside of him. And as you said his arm exploded. That's a fair exchange you know. I think I recall that Rin uses all of her gems on Hercules at that route too and could not kill him at all, at most injured a limb.

When I read F/SN I was questioning the power levels stuff too when I got to certain points. Nine lives Blade Works was incredibly out of the left field.
But then again, in the end Shirou becomes a vegetable in HF, and even Rin uses up her family's lineage Gem Sword, all of it, from all the alternate time lines.

In comparison there is zero consequence in UBW in comparison. The HGW in UBW is a walk in the park. UBW will forever be the worst route because of what they did to Ilya just to make the reader remember they were reading Fate/ Stay Night.

>>146325984
People get UBW, they just realize the Archer vs Shirou showdown is ridiculous as fuck

No?

>>146324802
>>146324921
>>146324992
>>146325165
>>146325339

People with similar misunderstandings like these are not too uncommon. The story can completely fly over people's heads.

Also you're supposed to have mixed feelings regarding Sakura in HF. That's one of the interesting things about the route. It's meant to make you question if Shirou's actions are fully justified.

>>146321642
Hey, he couldn't help saving Rider. He needed her to defeat Saber and save Sakura.

>>146326071
Yeah, this whole post of yours is damage control over the fact that you misremembered that Fate had humans doing damage too.

>In Fate servants are ruthless and confrontations happen and end in death

Except for the times when they conveniently aren't.

Saying the Holy Grail War was a walk in the park in UBW is ridiculous. The consequences Shirou faced were the vast implications to his character, his morals, and his future, and he struggled all throughout the story dealing with them.

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>>146325878
It's not a buzzword. It's the very same reason why Tsukihime is the Japanese reverse Twilight and why this fuck is basically a male version of the female lead in that novel.

>How many "shonen" stories feature characters risking it all to save the girl?
Almost all of them? Actually, risking your life to save a girl is like one of the most overused plot in shonen stories.

>>146326188
>Almost all of them? Actually, risking your life to save a girl is like one of the most overused plot in shonen stories.

Yep, so what makes UBW more 'shonen' than HF?

>>146326170
>he struggled all throughout the story dealing with them.
No, he just had to scream "IT'S NOT A MISTAKE" over and over until everyone conveniently conceded to him.

>>146326188
Are you being contrarian for he sake of it? You have like inverse cookie cutter opinions.

>>146325901
Of all the routes, UBW is the closest to Naruto and Bleach, down to winning the shitty heroine at the end.
The protagonist has a shitty past and has to "grow" and essentially face off against a bevy of contradictions to find an answer while saving people along the way.
UBW is one of the most "coming of age" shonen stories. It just so happens that it had sex. If Realta Nua came out before the original, no one would be able to claim otherwise, especially since shonen also has a lot of uberviolent scenes. Even Naruto has really bloody fights.

>>146325984
the entire point of HW for Shirou is to cast aside his ideals/ beliefs and just care about the one person he loves.

it's almost the complete opposite of UBW shirou

>>146326076
the entire thing in UBW, is that shirou is fucking wrong, about his dreams. Archer is living proof that his ideals are quite simple misguided and wrong. it's why the route is so fucking bad, from a logical perspective archer is right 100%. about shirou.

>>146326170
>The consequences Shirou faced were the vast implications to his character, his morals, and his future, and he struggled all throughout the story dealing with them.

is that why he didn't do anything to change any of that? Archer was quite literrly living proof his dreams/ideals DON'T FUCKING WORK. did he change them to be more realistic? nope

his morals were never once in question. he didn't struggle with shit. all he did was put 1 finger in each ear and just say I CAN'T HERE YOU I CAN'T HERE YOU I CAN'T HERE YOU. like a little child.

>>146326219
And again, like clockwork, huge chunks of the narrative go over another anon's head.

At this point UBW is clearly the most complicated route. Just from evidence of people not being able to pay attention.

Shirou weighs in all of the information Archer doles out to him, and concludes it's not a mistake, and Archer realizes it too.

>>146326219
The one who conceded is Archer because he was reminded how he once was. This is not arbitrary.

>>146326258

>Of all the routes, UBW is the closest to Naruto and Bleach, down to winning the shitty heroine at the end.

Rude.

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>>146321642
None of the other Shirous could save wormslut. She was in a position of ultimate and hopeless despair and only a miracle could rescue her. That's basically the essence of what HF boils down to.

>>146326258
My point is that from a writing standpoint, no matter how shallow UBW is, it's still miles ahead of Naruto and Bleach.

>>146326208
- Generic tsundere heroine
- Heavy focus on flashy action and powerlevels
- Clear cut moralities
- The main character's goal is to be a superhero
- Characters surviving wounds that should be instantly fatal
- The main character's determination being the only reason he wins

And many other things.

>>146326307
Nah, not really.

>>146321642
You do realize that nobody knows those jokes here, right? Go to bed.

>>146326170
>Servants are heroic spirits who move faster than humans and are way more powerful than you - stated in Fate route by Rin herself.
Shirou gets stabbed prior to this lesson by Gay Bolga. You got to admit though that the HGW explanations in Fate Route were godly good and comfy. Throughout the route you see Shirou try to win against servants chanting Trace On and it almost never works.

>Rin uses magic gems
Admitting gems were fair game was a tough concede to me because I have always tried to convince UBW fags that the gems were bullshit OP.
You should consider that Rin physically beats up Caster. And Kuzuki beats up Saber on a melee fight where any other servants could not stand against her on other than Berserker and Gil, and Sasaki Kojirou on uneven terrain.

>>146326312
>- The main character's determination being the only reason he wins
I laughed, but this is true. Also, that Gil is a fucking jobber. Which is also a very common way for shonen heroes to win out in the end against really powerful enemies.

>>146326280
>Shirou weighs in all of the information Archer doles out to him, and concludes it's not a mistake
And yet, most readers are able to conclude that it actually is a mistake, as shown by the dilemmas the ideal creates in more realistic stories like F/Z and HF. The writing in UBW is tailor-made to let Shirou get away with not maturing any.

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>>146326269
Oh Jesus. It's like I fucking fulfilled a prophesy

>>146324014

I write a post like this, where I talk about the absurdities of people concluding that Fate and UBW were wrong, and how they would have to come out of it thinking that 500k words they read, and the morals in them, were incorrect, and here we are.

It's not wrong to want to help other people. You'd have to be a sociopath to disagree. Shirou knows that he can't save everyone, but he's willing to put his life on the line to help, because he knows it's right.

Shirou doesn't openly fight to change things, because he knows the path he's walking is correct.

And Shirou did change them to be more realistic. He understands he can't save everyone.

This is all there people. I'm a litle flabbergasted.
.

>>146326390
>The writing in Fate route is tailor-made to let Shirou get away with not maturing any.
FTFY

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>UBW defenders

>hurr durr omg shiru so moralfag in fate ubw. dis is shit
>hurr durr y shiro abandon idels in hf. selfish bich. dis rout a shit

>>146326390
Which is why Shirou keeps repeating over and over that his ideals are selfish. I hope you understand that he isn't a moralfag.

>>146326400
>It's not wrong to want to help other people
It is when your future self shows you that it doesn't work.

>>146326390
Except chunks of those dilemmas are present in UBW.

Shirou concludes that he's okay with taking other lives.

>>146326409
You're right, they're both shit.

>>146326450
Except it does work. Archer saved people. He readily admits that.

His regrets lie in the jaded attitude of being stuck as a butcher murdering people as a counter guardian throughout all eternity.

It was seeing Shirou at his prime again that made him realize it wasn't all bravado, and that genuinely wanted to help others.

I am literally repeating myself verbatim here from other posts, because people just can't seem to get it.

>>146326400
>It's not wrong to want to help other people
It is wrong to be so obsessed with saving complete strangers that you disregard yourself and everyone in your vicinity for them.

>>146326511
I haven't kept up with Grand Order and I missed the Zero Event, was Assassin Kerry the same as Archer except with the added regret of missing Irisviel and Illya?

>>146326511
>Except it does work
Except it doesn't. None of the shit he did mattered at all. He literally wasted his entire life being retarded.

>>146326573
Yes, and Shirou learns to stop being like that at the end, or at the very least Rin is gonna make him learn to not do that.

>>146326579
>Originally, he was not a Heroic Spirit. An individual who murdered many people as an assassin, but his existence has not been carved in the Throne of Heroes. A "mock Heroic Spirit" also called guardian, and someone who does not exists in the proper human history. This "if that might have been possible" exists only due the threat that attempts to destroy human history itself from its very foundation... in the Grand Order case alone.

>As a result of the Einzbern House not adopting the strategy of hiring an outside Master, he did not met with the wife he was supposed to meet, and thus did not separated from said wife nor suffer from the frustration from such separation. Consequentially, his heart of steel remained as steel, his emotions eventually withering away completely, and his soul was called out to the circle of deterrence.

>>146326584
He became a heroic spirit in Extra with all the lives he saved.

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>>146326573
Arguably, but Shirou accepts that following his path may result in him losing his humanity.

He's okay with that.

He wants to be a hero, and sometimes heroes have to be more than human.

>>146326584
No, he outright admits that he saved the world at least once point.

And, Shirou, you'll note, does, after coming to terms with the weight of his decision, goes right on to stop Gilgamesh, and prevent a cataclysmic event.

The entire segment of the plot after the Archer fight is there to show Shirou has what it takes to follow through with his ideals.

>>146326628
>He became a heroic spirit in Extra because Nasu needed an excuse to add him so that he could make more money
Fixed it for you.

>>146326597
Shirou is shown to completely ignore Rin's input on the matter several times. He's going to leave her behind for the sake of his ideal, while Sakura who actually wanted to support him ends up teaching him the importance of treasuring what's close to him.

>>146326667
Come on anon, we know Fate's a cash cow.

>>146326676
>He's going to leave her behind for the sake of his ideal

Rin and Shirou are still together at the end of UBW. It's just that Rin knows that Shirou has a goal he wants to fulfill, and he can't happily do that cooped up within the Clocktower.

Rin's input at the end was to follow his dream.

>>146326628
No he didn't. He made a contract with the Moon Cell instead of the World. It's the same thing except the Moon Cell made him a real HS.

>>146326729
Yes, but Rin is gonna make sure he follows his dream and doesn't fuck himself up like Archer.

>>146326739
Didn't have the name Mumei to represent all of the nameless heroes in recent history that saved plenty of lives like him?

>>146326750
Exactly, the last conversation before the credits of the epilogue (of which Nasu himself wrote- for the love of god people don't fucking sperg out on me), has her telling him to outright surpass Archer. Do better than him.

>>146321642
I dunno but I enjoyed HF more than the other routes. Two scenes especially stood out to me:
- emiya embracing sakura in the rain and promising to be her superhero
- doushite koroshitenakatta senpai

how much goddamm fate crap is out there????

>>146325159
>>146325201
This retcon was only for the anime because Archer uses UBW in the castle there you fucking retards

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>>146326842
A lot. One might even say there are Unlimited Fate Works.

>>146326842

F/SN
F/HA
F/E
F/Apoc
F/GO
F/KLPI

And doubtless others I've missed.

Imagine a 55 year old doctor who hates his life and how it has become a routine of trying to stop people from dying but there's always people you fail to save. He manages to travel in the past and meet his younger self still in med school. He tries his hardest to convince him that it's all bullshit and that being a doctor isn't what he though it would be and that he'll grow up to become miserable and resent what he does. The younger self isn't convinced by this because he has youth enthusiasm and none of the experience that make people bitter over time. Seeing just how motivated his younger self is the old doctor gets his own motivation "relighted" and remembers/regains some of his old enthusiasm. There, this is UBW in a nutshell.
>>146326777
He was made into the concept of "hero of justice" as a HS. So when people want to summon the all the vigilantes and nameless heroes he's the one that gets summoned for them.

>>146326922
what the hell!!!!!! does the world really need that much /fate

>>146326842
>>146326952
>????
>!!!!!!
Fucking christ stay on reddit or lurk the fuck more.

>>146326931
No, it's more like if he ends up having to perform executions and autopsies for all eternity instead, and his younger self completely ignores his advice just to be contrarian.

>>146326931
This. UBW doesn't have the most straightforward plot around, but I am consistently amazed at how people can seemingly not understand it.

It's time travel, yeah, but is it really that hard? To come out of reading the route, and thinking Archer was right?

It's not even surface level reading, it's just having it all fly right over your head.

>>146327070
Becoming a counter guardian was one specific mistake that doesn't neglect the rest of the life he lived.

Archer didn't regret any of that. He didn't regret spending his life and energy helping others, because he knew it was right.

His views only darkened after seeing the worst of the worst for an incomprehensible amount of time.

>saves his waifu and protects her smile

How can you hate that.

>>146327069
making crap for the sake of crap, is crap.... watch something better like, World Break: Aria of Curse for a Holy Swordsman or And you thought there is never a girl online?

>>146327077
The route tries its hardest to portray Shirou as being right, but it just doesn't fly when you stop and think about it. Pretty much every other part of the series confirms Archer being right too.

>>146327141

His Waifu a shit. His Sister superior in every way.

>>146327158
No it doesn't. Shirou himself admits that his ideals are selfish. The route does the opposite of what you're saying. Archer is the one jaded by rationalizations and Shirou is the one motivated on the basis of how he feels.

>>146327158
But it does fly. There is literally nothing wrong with the conclusion Shirou reaches at the end of UBW. You just simply have to not being paying attention to think otherwise.

Which is not uncommon, it seems.

Shirou knows he can't save everyone, but he accepts the weight of still wanting to help others. That means putting himself at risk, and it likely means he may end up having to make choices that aren't necessarily nice.

Archer himself shows Shirou that he ended up killing countless others.

But Shirou ultimately walks away okay with that knowledge, because in doing these acts, Archer saved many more.

It's not a perfect life. It will be full of hardships, and things may not always go the way Shirou wants them to, but that can be said for everyone.

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>>146327215
Exactly. Archer is rational, while Shirou only has emotional reasoning.

You'd think that people who spend all their time on here regularly and pointlessly arguing with people who hold views not for rational reasons but for emotional ones would understand why Archer did not manage to convince Shirou.

>>146327222
>because in doing these acts, Archer saved many more.
Remember that scene in F/Z where Kiritsugu has to choose between the two ships?

>>146327280
But Archer is the one being emotional. He's angry. He's frustrated. His whole fight with Shirou amounts mostly to him lashing out at the guy. He rigged a whole scenario where he could grandstand in front of Shirou and give a big rant.

Shirou's conclusion was logical. He knows he can't save everyone, but the act of helping others should never be shamed.

>>146327304
Shirou would do his best to help others. He knows there are going to be no-win situations though.

He's had these memories implanted right into his head.

>>146327180
>His Sister superior in every way

I agree. Illya is better.

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>>146327589
posting secret illya

shh

>>146327589

Illya and Miyu. Both of his sisters. Don't forget. They're both far more worthy of surrendering your ideals for over a worm-infested girl.

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>>146327736
Sakura is worm-free, though.

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>>146327964
Of course she is.

>>146327964
>those gorilla arms

>>146328101
It's okay, Shirou isn't 100% human right at that moment.

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>>146328101

>>146328071

Fish aren't worms.

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>>146328125
I thought Rin was a rhino?

>>146328210
She's a gorhino.

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>>146328231
Rin's really talented.

>>146328137
Are you sure?

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>>146328272
In bed.

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>>146328301
rude post

>>146328272

Talented at pleasing blonde girls for pleasure!

OHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHO

>>146328301

She was having a Mana-Transfer with Saber at the time. Shirou would understand.

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>>146321642
>Doesn't save Shinji

Unforgivable.

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>>146328541
>Gets saved in UBW
>Potentially has his circuits unlocked after getting the grail up his butt
>Has Sakura all to himself after Rin and Shirou book it for London

Boy oh boy, things sure are lookin' up for Ole' Shinji!

>>146328594
>Potentially has his circuits unlocked after getting the grail up his butt

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work this way. But what do I know, Nasu literally gives no shit about the rules previously established.

>>146321642
>>Doesn't save Illya
She was cool with it.
>>Doesn't save Kirei
He deserved worse than what he got.
>>Doesn't save Saber
Her death saved her.
>>Doesn't save Shinji
Only Shinji is to blame.
>>Doesn't save countless numbers of people
An unnamed, faceless, and very rough statistic. Calling them people is too generous.
>>Doesn't save ideal
Who cares, his ideal was garbage.
>>Doesn't save himself
He did.
>>Saves evil used goods
She needed it the most.

>>146330661
>>>Doesn't save Kirei
>He deserved worse than what he got.
Take that back.

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>>146328124

You can't blame the doll body for that when it's pure Takeuchi. The body just uses his soul anyway to male another body, so other than a few problems with dealing with magical energy, she is fine, and Sakura is researching why to help him, so it's all gravy. Though I always thought Sakura should probably focus on the weird phenomenon on why, even after the system was destroyed and she sealed the leyline, that she gets power pumped into her outside of her will, but I can't fault her for pouring all her energy into Shirou (both figuratively and literally, giggity). Maybe she refused Rin's offer to be a student at the Clock Tower because she and her boyfriend are pretty much freaks they would want to dissect.

Pretty sure she doesn't want the life of a lab rat again, or have to choke some bitches just to go to Hogwarts and be treated like a freak, sister there or not.

Though I do think the gang should drain the Association of all their money at a magic tourney. GO even supplied us canon costumes for them to wear in pic related.

I did like Shirou does get his dream of being taller and is helping Issei with the temple, since having the ground cave in can't have been good for business.

>>146324802
>>146325670
>>146325734

>using shounen for an eroge

Kill yourselves newfag animeshit

>>146331063
The porn doesn't change anything. It's still shonenshit.

Friendly reminder that Shirou is an absurd hero.

HF Shirou has the shittiest taste.

>>146331063
>what is Realta Nua

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>>146331147
You're right.

wormslut a shit

>>146331149
A censored all-ages version of an eroge.

>>146331198
So, not an eroge.

>>146331186
Wow, what a vindictive bitch

>>146331227
It's an eroge in spirit. A post-eroge if you will.

>>146321642
I wonder how fsn story would turn out if Shiki was MC.

>>146331237
Rin sure is.

>>146331135
It doesn't change that you're a literal retard at semantics.

>>146331149
>implying an all-ages version released 2 years late means anything
look at this retard.
and even that all ages doesn't mean shounen either

>>146331259
[x] Rape the maids
[ ] Don't rape the maids

post king archer

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>>146331315
Good plan

Wait, are we discussing plot holes/bullshit in F/SN? I love this game:
>Lancer not utterly destroying Shirou, TWICE
>Gilgamesh fending off Saber with fucking swordsmanship
>True Assassin using Dirks on Lancer instead of Zabaniya on him while he wasn't watching
>Hercules not crushing Rin's torso in 2 the second he took a hold of her
>Rin's magic having ANY fatal effect on Hercules/Medea
>the teacher dude having ANY chance against Saber, yes I get the enhancement thing and Saber having a shitty master but FUCKING STILL
>Rin faking fighting against Sakura in HF only to hug her in the end
>Gilgamesh not instantly pulling Shirou into the grail hole using his servant strength

>>146330714

Well let's go down the list, he:

>Killed Rin's father, his teacher, right after getting his graduation present from him
>used her father's dead body to trick her mother into going mad on her childhood friend who was brain damaged at the time, and choked her into also getting brain damage
>knows about Sakura's suffering since the sisters were 5 and 6, pretends not to notice
>does his duties as a priest ironically, to further cause pain to others, it's that Fuyuki is full of masochistic Christians, so it works out for him to sermon as he does by making them feel like shit
>was entirely incompetent as a property owner and cost Rin potential hundreds of millions in real estate and assets
>wants to cause an apocalypse just to get an answer for him being naturally edgy, nigga just work at the DMV if you like seeing people suffer
>uses living children as batteries so the biggest narcissist on the planet can have his jollies, the same one who gets his own jollies telling a 15 year old girl to kill herself
>only helped Sakura because he was still butthurt about Zouken making him feel bad, and could cause Rin and Shirou to suffer more by neglecting key points of information about many things and "helping" on the surface to hide his own plans

About the only thing he did that was altogether beneficial was Rin's training and teaching her to lessen the pain of the crest with medicines.

>>146331576
>>Rin's magic having ANY fatal effect on Hercules/Medea
>>the teacher dude having ANY chance against Saber, yes I get the enhancement thing and Saber having a shitty master but FUCKING STILL
There is nothing wrong with this though.

>>146331665
>game hammers into your head about how humans can't do shit against servants
>those things happen
I know it's a writing technique by Nasu to say X is impossible and then have a character do X, but it's still shitty writing.

>>146331576
>Lancer not utterly destroying Shirou, TWICE
Lancer was playing with the kid-he clearly wasn't fighting seriously
>Hercules not crushing Rin's torso in 2 the second he took a hold of her
Rin mentioned having reinforced her torso, she still took damage
>Rin's magic having ANY fatal effect on Hercules/Medea
Neither of them have Magic Resistance as part of Servant class, and Rin mentioned that her each of her magical gems had the equivalent of an A-rank spell embedded in it.
>the teacher dude having ANY chance against Saber, yes I get the enhancement thing and Saber having a shitty master but FUCKING STILL
Unusual fighting style, specifically designed to be so. After the first battle, it's easy to figure out and counter
>Rin faking fighting against Sakura in HF only to hug her in the end
Rin is far more sentimental that she tries to appear to be.
>Gilgamesh not instantly pulling Shirou into the grail hole using his servant strength
Gil was trying to pull himself out, not drag Shirou along with him.

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>>146331576
>faking fighting
She was completely serious, and a complete bitch. If anything, the plothole is how she got away with how she treated Sakura just by hugging her once.

>>146331721
No, it's explicitly said that because Servants are spirits they cannot be harmed by things that aren't mystical. This is why magic can harm them.

>>146331776
It literally says
>a human cannot hope to defeat a servant

>>146331815
Because usually they aren't strong enough.

>>146331765

I know you are trying to bait, but it's made fairly obvious both sisters are at fault to a degree for their relationship being kind of strained. Sakura just did a bit more to try and bridge that gap before things went down.

I'd say a family therapist might have solved this earlier, but I guess the two needed to get the grief out. Can't really heal the pain of your father essentially abandoning you to a heathen when you were four for admittedly autistic reasons because the society he is part of is so fucked up. I'd think even most therapists would need a drink between sessions with those two, he/she has some work on their hands.

>>146331995
I know reading is hard but your post has nothing to do with the image he posted. In case you're blind and using a text-to-speech function in order to shitpost on 4chan, the image shows Rin admitting she doesn't care one bit about Sakura, it's basically a big fuck you towards her sister.

Anon who isn't invested in F/N at all here, but watched enough to know what's going on.
All three routes are stupid if you think too much about it.
Shirou is a massive hypocrite and is popular with people who cannot admit that their way of life could be wrong and change themselves into a better person.

Your waifu will always be shit.

>>146323911

Honestly, it's the same either way, just in HF Shirou has to compensate more to get a better result, since his powers work literally the same way. In UBW, he is feeding off his future self to gain levels and using Rin's energy to manifest his Reality Marble, and in HF, he gain a template of skills he would get in time right now, with harsh conditions.

Regardless of either circumstance, it's cemented he arrived at certain truths and will get more power if he trains by word of God.

Threads like these make me sick to have read the VNs. Such shameless baiting, and they're replying!

>>146332231

Brah, please.

I could give you several examples and passages in HF that prove Rin is full of it.

But if you want an honest assessment, it's not that she is faking, but that she desperately wants to keep the mask on.

>>146332690
It doesn't matter if she's faking it or not, it's all the same to Sakura. You could say she faked it until she made it, and by made it I mean became a bitch.

>>146331612
>a 15 year old girl
Wrong. She was 18+ and not a day younger.

>>146324759

I like Aoko too, but you probably shouldn't be too proud of that, since the majority of the fan comments on the poll were screams of "Oppai! Oppai! Oppai!". And Sakura has been in the top ten for years, with little exposure, so her standing has a solid fanbase.

And to crush the misconceptions of people even further, Tsubasa Tiger was one of, if not the most popular Monogatari novel to date, with Nips saying Hanekawa was the best narrator.

>>146330823
>stoic and cool Shirou
>happy to be hanging out with everyone Sakura
>I'M GOING TO MOLEST EVERYONE I DEFEAT Rin
That face is way too lewd

>>146333676

Never really got the lewd impression from the pic, but it would be funny if she was scouting for a new lover at the magic tourney. Nice mix of her variation of her father's gambler type outfit and skirt combo

Then again, she could just have Rider, and would you need anyone else in that case?

I did like how Sakura's outfit is partly western, some shrine maiden, with striped hoodie. Maybe her power morphs different clothes on her or something. Nasu will never tell.